The connector in question is NOT the ADC connector that carries video, power, and USB. All the dongle does is convert the pins from the custom port into a regular VGA-out connector that can be plugged into a standard monitor. And it most certainly is proprietary, which is what this thread was about.
Personally, I think Apple could double their marketshare in 18 months if they would sell a minitower computer, without monitor, for $799. They currently sell an iMac with a monitor in a custom case for $799, so I'm sure they could put it in a nicely designed case with no monitor and 3 slots instead for the same price.
P.S. Don't bother responding with 'but this would cannibalize sales!' because I've heard that 1000 times.
Macs are not proprietary machines. This is an old notion. In no meaningful way are they proprietary.
The new iBook and iMac ship with a non-standard video out port that works with nothing else in the known universe. You need an Apple dongle to convert the plug into a regular VGA-out connector so that you can plug it into a monitor.
That means you're screwed if you lose or forget the dongle, and that is what "proprietary" means.
...or programs that don't close without opening a menu.
The only problem with the "Windows Way" is that it's applied inconsistently. On the Mac, you close EVERY program by choosing "File: Quit". On Windows, clicking the "X" in the upper-right corner of a window sometimes quits the program, sometimes not.
For example, Yahoo Messenger - if you click the "X" the window closes but the program continues to run in the system tray. (Even worse, it didn't used to be like this, then they changed it.) Windows is full of this kind of nagging inconsistencies.
I still think the Mac has problems which make it NOT the ideal choice for everyone but the extreme computer neophyte, but this is one area where the Mac way is superior.
Ahh, but there is. It may not be a survival reason but there is one nontheless: protecting your interests.
Please explain how this dongle protects Apple's interests - after all, when you've got the dongle, you plug it into a regular PC-standard monitor! It's not like the dongle ties you into Apple-brand displays. The dongle does not protect Apple's interests in any way, it's just a PITA.
Apple will never again sell you a cheap computer without a display, because they would greatly prefer forcing you to buy their overpriced (admittedly high quality) monitor whether you want it or not.
Why? Even if you accept the fact that a 700mhz G4 can keep pace with a 1.4ghz Athlon (I've used both, and I believe it), the iMac is STILL overpriced. What's a 1.4ghz Athlon system going for these days? I'd bet you can build one with a name brand LCD and get a DVD burner too for the $1299 the iMac costs.
That doesn't make the iMac a bad computer, but it's ridiculous to call it competitive when a machine that is faster and more powerful can be purchased for several hundred dollars less.
I'd love to ask Jonathan why they've chosen to use a proprietary dongle connector for VGA-out on both the iBook and the new iMac.
Frankly, this is the dumbest design decision ever. If you're trying to make a "simple" computer, why use a dongle that consumers will most certainly forget or lose? What could be more simple than the same connector used on 99% of the world's personal computers?
This is extra stupid, since there is plenty of space to put a standard VGA-out connector on both systems. Additionally, making a custom port and dongle adds to the cost of an already expensive computer.
I'm all for design improvements, but there is no point being proprietary just for the sake of being different.
You can get pretty close with DirecTV's Center Ice package. It's $150 a year, so that's less than $15 a month, and you get just about every game that's televised. (The exception is your local team, which may be blacked out).
Alternatively, you can buy their "Sports Pack", which gets you every out of town Fox Sports channel. That gets you quite a lot of games as well. It think that's $10 a month.
Folks, it's called DirecTV. Why let the cable company stick it to you? They have two way data, as well, and although it's not ideal for everyone due to latency, why give your money to the local cable monopoly?
As far as phone service goes, I can't be the only one that's given up a landline for cellular. There's no need to give ANY of your money to AOL/Time Warner. Remember, they can't sell it if you don't buy it.
Are you SURE. Because the video chip in the iBook is the same chip used in many wintel laptops, and it definitely supports both dual display and greater than 1024x768 output.
I would be VERY suprised if Apple actually went to the expense of ordering custom video chips, when it would be so much simpler to break it in software. (Just don't show the other modes in the monitors control panel)
Has anyone tried running Linux on the iBook? If so, what resolution can you get on an external monitor?
Currently, under Mac OSX the output is limited to 1024x768 (even though the video card supports much more.) Yuck.
If you can only get 1024x768 under Linux, that would indicate that it's actually a hardware limitation.
If you can get more, however, that might indicate that there is hope for a BSD/Linux driver to be used as the basis for a new OSX driver that would unlock the capability of the hardware that Apple took away.
A Wintel notebook has (usually two) PCMCIA slots, which can add just about ANY kind of device to your computer. The iBook has no PCMCIA slots, so you're stuck.
What's with the VGA-out port?
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New iMac Announced
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· Score: 2, Informative
Why does Apple insist on using some stupid micro-connector VGA-out port that needs a dongle just to connect a regular monitor?
They do this on the iBook, and now I see it's on the new iMac too. A regular, "PC-standard" VGA would fit fine in the same space!
Now you've got a dongle to remember to take with you and possibly lose. Is there ANY benefit to this approach? WHY WHY WHY?
I'm disappointed, but not with the keynote
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New iMac Announced
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· Score: 2
I can't describe how incredibly disappointed I am with Apple Computer. The source of my frustration is their continual need to seperate their customers into "consumers" and "professional".
Apple's lowend computers are nice enough, if a little pricey. If you want some slots, however, so you can add future neat stuff, Apple calls you a "pro".
The cheapest Apple "pro" computer is the PowerMac G4. I can buy a PC clone that meets those standards for 1/2 the cost of the Mac, and that basically sums up my opinion of Apple.
Things did not used to be like this - I bought a PowerMac 7200 for roughly $999. I had 3 PCI slots, which I used to add a second monitor and later, USB and an IDE card. Into it's drive bays I added both SCSI and IDE disks. I never ran into a problem I couldn't solve by adding or changing a component. That computer is still in use in a local elementary school, thanks to it's ability to adapt and change.
Now compare that to a computer like the iMac. It will never support dual display with spanning. You're tied to a 15" display for the life of the computer. You'll never add a future tech. like USB 2.0 or faster wireless, since there is no place to put expansion cards. It's intentionally built NOT to be upgradeable.
Sadly, it doesn't need to be this way! There's no reason that an easy to understand computer could not also have expansion options for power users. But Apple would prefer that you buy their $2000 computer for that... sadly, most people will look at the HP for $1000 and realize that is has BETTER expansion.
The days of Apple producing affordable, expandable computers are gone... and so am I.
Perhaps I'm missing something here... but these Xbox units are only a few weeks old. Wouldn't you just return it to the store?
Why deal with customer service - after a long wait, you've now got a 'repaired' Xbox, that might have other stuff wrong with it.
I know if I got a bad one that failed 2 weeks after I bought it, I wouldn't bother calling Microsoft, I'd got straight back to Best Buy or Circuit City.
You shouldn't, and they don't. They only get a royalty on AUDIO CD blanks, not data ones. You aren't paying (in the United States, anyway) a royalty on that spindle of data CDRs you bought.
Re:Unless you consider it a plant
on
Apple PDA?
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· Score: 2, Troll
Here is the scenario: iWalk type thing is a $250 PDA
Perhaps you didn't read carefully enough. This device is made by APPLE.
If a user knows they will need PCI, then they wont buy an iMac.
This is the core of the argument - I say "I'd use OS X, but Mac hardware is too expensive". You say - "Mac hardware isn't expensive - the iMac is just $799!"
But when I complain about the iMac's shortcomings, mac lovers say "well, if you need expandability, you need the G4 tower, not the iMac". Funny how that works - the G4 tower is $1700, which damn well is expensive.
The FACT is that the cheapest expandable computer Apple sells is $1700. Even if you accept that the G4 is twice as fast per Mhz, that's still double the cost of x86 hardware. NICE x86 hardware, not junk.
Furthermore, with laptops, what the hell is the point of a PC card slot on a laptop that has video out, firewire, usb, 10/100 ethernet, AirPort (802.11b), and a 56k modem built-in? I actually just bought a TiBook 3-4 days ago (it's still on its way), and I don't have any notion of what I'll actually use the PC card slot on it for.
Suggest you re-read parent post. The whole point of the PC card slot is for FUTURE technologies. Yes, the iBook has built in ethernet, modem, and Firewire. But what happens when you want some NEW technology? Out of luck.
That's another thing... Macs don't age nearly as fast as PCs do...
I'm sorry but that is the biggest MYTH.
One half of Apple's current lineup of computers, the iMac and the iBook (2 computers that I bet make up the bulk of their sales) have NO expansion slots. No PCI slots on the iMac, and no PCMCIA slots on the laptops.
This is nothing more than a stupid, short-sighted attempt by Apple to make the computer not last as long. In essence, your choices become: 1: buy the much more expensive TiBook or G4 tower, or 2: buy the cheap one and it's obsolete, FAST.
Apple has end-of-lifed the video cards used in the first generation iMac - users of those computers are never going to get accelerated video drivers in OS X. If those were cheapo PCs with slots, you could at least throw a nicer video card in there and solve the problem.
And don't bother posting that it doesn't matter that there aren't any expansion slots because "everything comes built in". Tell that to first generation iBook or iMac owners who like to use the iPod - "sorry, FireWire only". Those computers are less than two years old, and already becoming obsolete.
Would you like to have USB 2.0? I will, and I can add it to my 3 year old Dell notebook via a card and it will work fine. The Apple iBook you buy TODAY can't be expanded with a single new tech. beyond what it ships with. Now which comp. is aging faster, the Apple, or the Dell? Even crummy $700 PCs and $1100 laptops have PCI/PCMCIA.
PCI and PCMCIA slots let you add all sorts of stuff to your computer, in effect, "future-proofing" it by allowing you to expand rather than buy a new computer. A computer without expansion options hardly qualifies as "a computer that ages slower than PCs."
P.S. I don't want to hear about how you can add all sorts of nifty expansion option via FireWire. I don't want 5 boxes hanging off my computer.
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The connector in question is NOT the ADC connector that carries video, power, and USB. All the dongle does is convert the pins from the custom port into a regular VGA-out connector that can be plugged into a standard monitor. And it most certainly is proprietary, which is what this thread was about.
But the parent post is about being proprietary, not being nice. The parent post said "macs aren't proprietary! Give an example."
The custom dongle-needed video out port is an example of Apple being proprietary.
P.S. Don't bother responding with 'but this would cannibalize sales!' because I've heard that 1000 times.
They CAN compete. They CHOOSE not to.
The new iBook and iMac ship with a non-standard video out port that works with nothing else in the known universe. You need an Apple dongle to convert the plug into a regular VGA-out connector so that you can plug it into a monitor.
That means you're screwed if you lose or forget the dongle, and that is what "proprietary" means.
The only problem with the "Windows Way" is that it's applied inconsistently. On the Mac, you close EVERY program by choosing "File: Quit". On Windows, clicking the "X" in the upper-right corner of a window sometimes quits the program, sometimes not.
For example, Yahoo Messenger - if you click the "X" the window closes but the program continues to run in the system tray. (Even worse, it didn't used to be like this, then they changed it.) Windows is full of this kind of nagging inconsistencies.
I still think the Mac has problems which make it NOT the ideal choice for everyone but the extreme computer neophyte, but this is one area where the Mac way is superior.
I don't use a Mac right now for one simple reason - the cheapest computer they sell that lets you upgrade the video card is $1800.
That would make sense, except the dongle does NOT provide a connection to a DVI LCD panel (like Apple makes), it just give you regular VGA-out!
Uh, yes? You can get 802.11b cards for about $70 these days, and there are plenty of them that work with Linux.
Please explain how this dongle protects Apple's interests - after all, when you've got the dongle, you plug it into a regular PC-standard monitor! It's not like the dongle ties you into Apple-brand displays. The dongle does not protect Apple's interests in any way, it's just a PITA.
Apple will never again sell you a cheap computer without a display, because they would greatly prefer forcing you to buy their overpriced (admittedly high quality) monitor whether you want it or not.
Why? Even if you accept the fact that a 700mhz G4 can keep pace with a 1.4ghz Athlon (I've used both, and I believe it), the iMac is STILL overpriced. What's a 1.4ghz Athlon system going for these days? I'd bet you can build one with a name brand LCD and get a DVD burner too for the $1299 the iMac costs.
That doesn't make the iMac a bad computer, but it's ridiculous to call it competitive when a machine that is faster and more powerful can be purchased for several hundred dollars less.
Frankly, this is the dumbest design decision ever. If you're trying to make a "simple" computer, why use a dongle that consumers will most certainly forget or lose? What could be more simple than the same connector used on 99% of the world's personal computers?
This is extra stupid, since there is plenty of space to put a standard VGA-out connector on both systems. Additionally, making a custom port and dongle adds to the cost of an already expensive computer.
I'm all for design improvements, but there is no point being proprietary just for the sake of being different.
Alternatively, you can buy their "Sports Pack", which gets you every out of town Fox Sports channel. That gets you quite a lot of games as well. It think that's $10 a month.
As far as phone service goes, I can't be the only one that's given up a landline for cellular. There's no need to give ANY of your money to AOL/Time Warner. Remember, they can't sell it if you don't buy it.
I would be VERY suprised if Apple actually went to the expense of ordering custom video chips, when it would be so much simpler to break it in software. (Just don't show the other modes in the monitors control panel)
Currently, under Mac OSX the output is limited to 1024x768 (even though the video card supports much more.) Yuck.
If you can only get 1024x768 under Linux, that would indicate that it's actually a hardware limitation.
If you can get more, however, that might indicate that there is hope for a BSD/Linux driver to be used as the basis for a new OSX driver that would unlock the capability of the hardware that Apple took away.
A Wintel notebook has (usually two) PCMCIA slots, which can add just about ANY kind of device to your computer. The iBook has no PCMCIA slots, so you're stuck.
They do this on the iBook, and now I see it's on the new iMac too. A regular, "PC-standard" VGA would fit fine in the same space!
Now you've got a dongle to remember to take with you and possibly lose. Is there ANY benefit to this approach? WHY WHY WHY?
Apple's lowend computers are nice enough, if a little pricey. If you want some slots, however, so you can add future neat stuff, Apple calls you a "pro".
The cheapest Apple "pro" computer is the PowerMac G4. I can buy a PC clone that meets those standards for 1/2 the cost of the Mac, and that basically sums up my opinion of Apple.
Things did not used to be like this - I bought a PowerMac 7200 for roughly $999. I had 3 PCI slots, which I used to add a second monitor and later, USB and an IDE card. Into it's drive bays I added both SCSI and IDE disks. I never ran into a problem I couldn't solve by adding or changing a component. That computer is still in use in a local elementary school, thanks to it's ability to adapt and change.
Now compare that to a computer like the iMac. It will never support dual display with spanning. You're tied to a 15" display for the life of the computer. You'll never add a future tech. like USB 2.0 or faster wireless, since there is no place to put expansion cards. It's intentionally built NOT to be upgradeable.
Sadly, it doesn't need to be this way! There's no reason that an easy to understand computer could not also have expansion options for power users. But Apple would prefer that you buy their $2000 computer for that... sadly, most people will look at the HP for $1000 and realize that is has BETTER expansion.
The days of Apple producing affordable, expandable computers are gone... and so am I.
Why deal with customer service - after a long wait, you've now got a 'repaired' Xbox, that might have other stuff wrong with it.
I know if I got a bad one that failed 2 weeks after I bought it, I wouldn't bother calling Microsoft, I'd got straight back to Best Buy or Circuit City.
You shouldn't, and they don't. They only get a royalty on AUDIO CD blanks, not data ones. You aren't paying (in the United States, anyway) a royalty on that spindle of data CDRs you bought.
Perhaps you didn't read carefully enough. This device is made by APPLE.
This is the core of the argument - I say "I'd use OS X, but Mac hardware is too expensive". You say - "Mac hardware isn't expensive - the iMac is just $799!"
But when I complain about the iMac's shortcomings, mac lovers say "well, if you need expandability, you need the G4 tower, not the iMac". Funny how that works - the G4 tower is $1700, which damn well is expensive.
The FACT is that the cheapest expandable computer Apple sells is $1700. Even if you accept that the G4 is twice as fast per Mhz, that's still double the cost of x86 hardware. NICE x86 hardware, not junk.
Suggest you re-read parent post. The whole point of the PC card slot is for FUTURE technologies. Yes, the iBook has built in ethernet, modem, and Firewire. But what happens when you want some NEW technology? Out of luck.
I'm sorry but that is the biggest MYTH.
One half of Apple's current lineup of computers, the iMac and the iBook (2 computers that I bet make up the bulk of their sales) have NO expansion slots. No PCI slots on the iMac, and no PCMCIA slots on the laptops.
This is nothing more than a stupid, short-sighted attempt by Apple to make the computer not last as long. In essence, your choices become: 1: buy the much more expensive TiBook or G4 tower, or 2: buy the cheap one and it's obsolete, FAST.
Apple has end-of-lifed the video cards used in the first generation iMac - users of those computers are never going to get accelerated video drivers in OS X. If those were cheapo PCs with slots, you could at least throw a nicer video card in there and solve the problem.
And don't bother posting that it doesn't matter that there aren't any expansion slots because "everything comes built in". Tell that to first generation iBook or iMac owners who like to use the iPod - "sorry, FireWire only". Those computers are less than two years old, and already becoming obsolete.
Would you like to have USB 2.0? I will, and I can add it to my 3 year old Dell notebook via a card and it will work fine. The Apple iBook you buy TODAY can't be expanded with a single new tech. beyond what it ships with. Now which comp. is aging faster, the Apple, or the Dell? Even crummy $700 PCs and $1100 laptops have PCI/PCMCIA.
PCI and PCMCIA slots let you add all sorts of stuff to your computer, in effect, "future-proofing" it by allowing you to expand rather than buy a new computer. A computer without expansion options hardly qualifies as "a computer that ages slower than PCs."
P.S. I don't want to hear about how you can add all sorts of nifty expansion option via FireWire. I don't want 5 boxes hanging off my computer.