Why use Powershell when one can use a GUI to set it up in a less than a minute? The same goes for the documentation. The setup wizard for my NVidia card is straight forward and intuitive. All configuration for Windows can be done from within the GUI. There is no reason to go into the registry or application specific folders.
Basically, you are using a false analogy. You are trying to say that one must do things in Windows in a way that is often needed for Linux and never needed by Windows.
Silly boy, you don't understand. The government doesn't have to go after 300,000,000+ people in the country. Many will be on the side of the government. Many won't want to get involved. I know it is hard for you to understand because you are a paranoid idiot, but people who think like you are vanishingly rare.
Oh, I know what you are thinking "But, I saw V.....", but that was a movie based on a graphic novel, not reality. In reality, V would have been dead in a few days at most.
BTW, the only reason it "took the U.S. Government a trillion dollars and half a million soldiers to destroy the roughly 20,000 members of Al-Qaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan" was because of Iraq, embedded reporters, and an attempt to be nice because the war was televised. I know it is hard for someone as simple as you to understand, but if the U.S. had acted like it had in WWI and WWII, before televised war, the U.S. armed forces would have carpet bombed Iraq and Afghanistan. We would have dropped thousands of large, cheap, conventional bombs and daisy cutters to kill the enemy soldiers, then used bunker busters on the REMFs. They would have leveled cities and towns. They would have rounded up people in remote locations and put them in camps. They would have mined the passes they didn't want used. They would have dropped bunker busters and cluster bombs. They would have a much higher civilian casualty rate and no one would have known or cared. And, things would have been a lot different.
Destruction of federal property is a federal crime. And, the drone is not illegal. And, even it's use may be legal, part of a criminal investigation, and destruction of it may be obstruction of justice.
And, you are just assuming Zimmerman lied There is no evidence for what you imply happened but there is evidence for what Zimmerman said. You are a biased asshole who believes Zimmerman should have been assumed guilty and had to prove his innocent. You made up your mind without looking at any of the evidence and you don't give a shit about the truth.
So, what we have is you cherry picking my words to misrepresent them, lying about what eye witnesses said, making unsupported assumptions, resorting to insults to avoid admitting you know I'm right, and generally making an ass out of yourself. Nice to know that you think you know everything that happened that night and have basically convicted a man on that unsupported knowledge. You obviously know better than the jury and, in fact, have magical knowledge of the events of that night.
I like how you totally discount my actual experience, to the point of saying that it is in no way like what happened to Zimmerman. We were both attacked, knocked to the ground, straddled, and had our head slammed into concrete. The only difference was the races in involved and the fact I didn't have a gun. Tell us, have you ever experienced anything like it at all? Or, are you just spouting off saying what Zimmerman could and could not have done with no experience what so ever?
We also know that if Martin hadn't attacked Zimmerman, no one would have been shot.
Oh, and just so we know exactly how much you are lying, 29 year old George Zimmerman was 5'8" and weighed approximately 170 pounds at the time of his arrest while the police estimate 17 year old Trayvon Martin was 6'0" and weighed 160 pounds. Martin's own family say he was 6'2" tall. So, when did 10 pounds become barely half of 170 pounds? As, according to Martin's own family, Martin was an high school football player, would you care to bet he was quite a bit more muscular than Zimmerman?
By the way, if an armed man was following you through a residential neighborhood in which you were a guest, would you approach the door of the nearest residence with lights on to knock, ask for them to call the police and provide you protection or at least a witness; or would you run to the house where you are staying to get behind a locked door from the perceived threat; or would you tell the person you are currently on the phone with and then call 911 and ask for the police yourself; or would you try to do more than one of the above; or would you, as an unarmed individual, approach and confront the man you believed to be armed and possibly dangerous?
According to prosecution testimony, we know which course Martin appeared to have chosen, which seems a very unlikely course if Martin thought Zimmerman was armed or was any real threat to Martin.
In what universe is someone unarmed when they are carrying a gun? It makes no difference when you believe the gun was drawn, George was undoubtedly armed
In the real world universe we live in, not the imaginary one where you try to twist my words. I said Zimmerman was "apparently unarmed", which means he wasn't obviously armed but rather he appeared unarmed. Zimmerman was armed, but didn't have a his weapon visible as he had a concealed carry permit and a concealed weapon. Martin had no way of knowing Zimmerman was armed.
We will never be able to determine for sure who attacked whom first, as one person is dead. We do know for sure that this happened only because George followed him, though. The confrontation was created by him.
That is a false statement. Perhaps you should review the witness testimony. A prosecution witness indicated that Martin approached and confronted Zimmerman. Zimmerman was following a person who behaving suspiciously and was breaking no laws. If Martin had continued on to his destination, there would have been no confrontation at all.
Only one person from the conflict was able to give a statement as to what happened, and they did not say anything under oath at the trial.
Zimmerman's wounds were consistent with his story. A witness stated he saw a light skinned man underneath a person who was either dark skinned or wearing a dark hood. You are ignoring evidence and testimony.
That has not been determined with certainty.
Are you suggesting we should assume Zimmerman is guilty and he should be required to prove his innocence?
If the other person has a gun, running from them isn't very useful as you certainly won't be able to outrun a bullet
I see you are failing at reading comprehension. According to Zimmerman, he didn't draw his gun until after Martin was on top of him. You also seem to be failing logic. If you saw a person with a gun, would you run up to him, hit him in the face, then get on top of him without disarming him? Would you even approach and/or attack him? Or, would you run away as soon as you saw the gun, especially if you thought the person was following you? If you were in a residential neighborhood, wouldn't you run to the nearest door, knock and ask them to call the police? If you were near home, wouldn't you run for home? If you had a phone, even if you were on it talking to someone, wouldn't you call the police?
If you actually believe that is how it happened, then how do you explain George being able to draw, aim, and fire his weapon? The story simply doesn't add up. Any normal person after having experienced such an event would not be able to do such a thing.
Aren't you going to address the claim and offer? No? I guess we can infer your answer from that. Zimmerman didn't have to aim. All he had to do was draw the weapon and put it in approximate contact with the person on top of him and pull the trigger. And, having been in the position Zimmerman claims to have been in and having experienced such a thing, yes such an event is possible. Granted I didn't have a gun, but I was able to grab something from the ground and hit my assailant dazing him and then buck him off me.
They had no case and they knew it. This prosecution was solely because of those protests and it failed because there was no evidence to disprove Zimmerman's version of events. The prosecution had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was guilty and the original DA knew they couldn't. Because of the uproar, a special prosecutor was appointed who brought charges and lost at trial because, like you, they decided to ignore the fact in America one is considered innocent until proven guilty. This trial was nothing but a politically motivated malicious prosecution to appease the protesters.
Zimmerman's next move should be to sue the state of Florida for malicious prosecution asking for legal fees, lost wages, pain and suffering, and enough compensatory damages to allow him to move elsewhere and start a new life.
That 'unarmed kid' was a 17 year old football player who had hit and knocked down a person, straddled him, and was pounding his head into the concrete sidewalk while stating he was going to kill the person he was battering.
If I were straddling your chest and pounding your head into a sidewalk, would you feel in danger of serious injury and death?
What matters is that it seems Zimmerman followed him, confronted him,
Except, that is not what the evidence and the testimony showed. The testimony showed that Zimmer followed Martin, and that Martin confronted Zimmerman
and was probably not realistically in fear of his life when he shot him.The whole "slamming on the pavement" thing has been contested. There really isn't hard evidence of what happened.
You seem unclear on the American legal system. Zimmerman is considered innocent until proven guilty. In fact, there was hard evidence Zimmerman's head had been slammed into the sidewalk. His wounds were consistent with that. But, that is actually irrelevant because there was no hard evidence that it didn't happen and that is what the prosecution had to provide. Zimmerman never had to prove his innocence, rather the prosecution had to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
As to the excluded evidence, it goes to the character of the victim and the claims of the prosecution. The prosecution's whole case revolved around the idea that Martin was an innocent victim who did nothing wrong, wouldn't attack anyone, and was unjustly targeted and murdered. They put forth Martin as a good kid who wouldn't commit a crime, wouldn't hurt anyone, and wouldn't be the aggressor. The excluded evidence cast doubt on that characterization. It showed that Martin could have been the aggressor and wasn't such a good kid after all.
Actually, whether or not Martin was a thug has bearing as it directly effects the prosecutions case. The prosecution case revolved around the idea that Martin would never have been and was not the aggressor, but that isn't the way thugs act. If Martin was a thug, then he might have attacked Zimmerman as Zimmerman claimed.
By the way, it was Martin on drugs, not Zimmerman.
Early on in your post, you state "I think they probably could make the case. Murder no way, but Manslaughter ", but then later you say "I don't care enough to go and review the evidence". You are making statements based on ignorance and it really sounds like you believe Zimmerman should have been treated as guilty until proven innocent.
So, if I am beating your head against a concrete sidewalk, no one can attempt to stop me because your life isn't in danger, right? Remember, you are stating one that slamming someone's head repeatedly into the ground while saying one is going to kill said someone isn't life-threatening.
Except, Martin didn't know Zimmerman was armed. All he knew was that someone was watching/following him. Neither watching nor following is a crime. If Martin felt threatened, he could have called the police, yet he didn't. Martin didn't have to confront Zimmerman at all. He could have just continued on to his destination at which point nothing would have happened.
You are making assumptions based on absolutely no evidence to justify your biased opinion. Or, to put it more bluntly, you are making shit up.
Speaking at a press conference after the verdict, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said he was "disappointed" with the verdict. "Who followed who? Isn't that what this case boils down to?" de la Rionda said
No, that is not what this case boils down to. What this case boils down to is who attacked whom first and how. That is why this case should never have gone to trial. The physical evidence corroborated Zimmerman's account and didn't disprove it. Eye witnesses corroborated Zimmerman's version. And, in the United States of American, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. The prosecution couldn't prove it's case and appealed to emotion and tried to mislead the jury and shift the burden of proof during closing arguments. The prosecutor stated that Zimmerman's defense needed prove Zimmerman's version of events and had not done so. But, Zimmerman didn't have to do that. It is the prosecution's job to prove it was false beyond a reasonable doubt. They couldn't and didn't and so tried to shift the burden of proof and used appeal to emotion to win. They failed.
It is quite amazing to see so many comments that are stating that Zimmerman is guilty while not knowing the facts. Some obviously started from the position that Zimmerman should be assumed guilty and that his defense had to prove him innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt. That is not how the law works.
Actually, witnesses testified that Martin was on top of Zimmerman AND testified that the only way Martin could have received the wounds he had was if he was bent over Zimmerman.
Zimmerman didn't have his gun drawn nor was he threatening Martin. If you have evidence to the contrary, why weren't you a witness in the trial? As Zimmerman was apparently unarmed, Martin had little to fear. Even if Martin was afraid, he attacked and knocked Zimmerman to the ground. At that point, Zimmerman wasn't a threat (remember Zimmmerman didn't have his gun drawn) and Martin could have run away. He didn't. He got on top of Zimmerman and continued to attack him. That is not self-defense by any stretch of the imagination.
Now, if you think Zimmerman didn't have anything to fear, this is what we can do. We can get together and you can lie down with your head on a sidewalk. I will straddle you and pound your head into the concrete two or three times. Then, you can tell everyone if you were afraid you might be seriously injured or killed.
Do yourself a favor and read the fucking law, m'kay? Read the definitions they use and specifically what it says. There you will learn the law doesn't shut down internet cafe's that actually provide internet access. It only effects the ones running claimed "internet sweepstakes".
It is another example of the law not keeping up with the times. New tech created a loop hole and theses people are exploiting it. Who benefits from the law? Basically, the old and the poor. These places are almost exclusively in low income neighborhoods and mostly elderly neighborhoods. The victims of these places don't understand the technologies. While the machines are effectively slot machines, the operators call them sweepstakes. But, the "sweepstakes" involves multiple locations and the "player" hitting a button at the right time. But, there doesn't have to be winner where one is playing. Of course, how do you tell if there is ever a real winner?
The only winners in these places are the operators.
Slashdot Mirror
Why use Powershell when one can use a GUI to set it up in a less than a minute? The same goes for the documentation. The setup wizard for my NVidia card is straight forward and intuitive. All configuration for Windows can be done from within the GUI. There is no reason to go into the registry or application specific folders.
Basically, you are using a false analogy. You are trying to say that one must do things in Windows in a way that is often needed for Linux and never needed by Windows.
What specifically did you google? How long did it take you to find that?
Wait until someone is hurt or killed from this disclosed vulnerability and these guys are going to be sued into the ground.
Spotlighting, misleading vividness, cherry-picking, appeal to fear, appeal to emotion, and misrepresenting the facts.
Silly boy, you don't understand. The government doesn't have to go after 300,000,000+ people in the country. Many will be on the side of the government. Many won't want to get involved. I know it is hard for you to understand because you are a paranoid idiot, but people who think like you are vanishingly rare.
Oh, I know what you are thinking "But, I saw V.....", but that was a movie based on a graphic novel, not reality. In reality, V would have been dead in a few days at most.
BTW, the only reason it "took the U.S. Government a trillion dollars and half a million soldiers to destroy the roughly 20,000 members of Al-Qaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan" was because of Iraq, embedded reporters, and an attempt to be nice because the war was televised. I know it is hard for someone as simple as you to understand, but if the U.S. had acted like it had in WWI and WWII, before televised war, the U.S. armed forces would have carpet bombed Iraq and Afghanistan. We would have dropped thousands of large, cheap, conventional bombs and daisy cutters to kill the enemy soldiers, then used bunker busters on the REMFs. They would have leveled cities and towns. They would have rounded up people in remote locations and put them in camps. They would have mined the passes they didn't want used. They would have dropped bunker busters and cluster bombs. They would have a much higher civilian casualty rate and no one would have known or cared. And, things would have been a lot different.
Why bother with that when they can send two FBI special agents for each resident and still have 10,000+ agents working on other things.
Destruction of federal property is a federal crime. And, the drone is not illegal. And, even it's use may be legal, part of a criminal investigation, and destruction of it may be obstruction of justice.
And, you are just assuming Zimmerman lied There is no evidence for what you imply happened but there is evidence for what Zimmerman said. You are a biased asshole who believes Zimmerman should have been assumed guilty and had to prove his innocent. You made up your mind without looking at any of the evidence and you don't give a shit about the truth.
So, what we have is you cherry picking my words to misrepresent them, lying about what eye witnesses said, making unsupported assumptions, resorting to insults to avoid admitting you know I'm right, and generally making an ass out of yourself. Nice to know that you think you know everything that happened that night and have basically convicted a man on that unsupported knowledge. You obviously know better than the jury and, in fact, have magical knowledge of the events of that night.
I like how you totally discount my actual experience, to the point of saying that it is in no way like what happened to Zimmerman. We were both attacked, knocked to the ground, straddled, and had our head slammed into concrete. The only difference was the races in involved and the fact I didn't have a gun. Tell us, have you ever experienced anything like it at all? Or, are you just spouting off saying what Zimmerman could and could not have done with no experience what so ever?
We also know that if Martin hadn't attacked Zimmerman, no one would have been shot.
Oh, and just so we know exactly how much you are lying, 29 year old George Zimmerman was 5'8" and weighed approximately 170 pounds at the time of his arrest while the police estimate 17 year old Trayvon Martin was 6'0" and weighed 160 pounds. Martin's own family say he was 6'2" tall. So, when did 10 pounds become barely half of 170 pounds? As, according to Martin's own family, Martin was an high school football player, would you care to bet he was quite a bit more muscular than Zimmerman?
By the way, if an armed man was following you through a residential neighborhood in which you were a guest, would you approach the door of the nearest residence with lights on to knock, ask for them to call the police and provide you protection or at least a witness; or would you run to the house where you are staying to get behind a locked door from the perceived threat; or would you tell the person you are currently on the phone with and then call 911 and ask for the police yourself; or would you try to do more than one of the above; or would you, as an unarmed individual, approach and confront the man you believed to be armed and possibly dangerous?
According to prosecution testimony, we know which course Martin appeared to have chosen, which seems a very unlikely course if Martin thought Zimmerman was armed or was any real threat to Martin.
And, yet, Martin didn't know Zimmerman was armed as Zimmerman had a concealed carry permit and was carrying his weapon concealed.
In what universe is someone unarmed when they are carrying a gun? It makes no difference when you believe the gun was drawn, George was undoubtedly armed
In the real world universe we live in, not the imaginary one where you try to twist my words. I said Zimmerman was "apparently unarmed", which means he wasn't obviously armed but rather he appeared unarmed. Zimmerman was armed, but didn't have a his weapon visible as he had a concealed carry permit and a concealed weapon. Martin had no way of knowing Zimmerman was armed.
We will never be able to determine for sure who attacked whom first, as one person is dead. We do know for sure that this happened only because George followed him, though. The confrontation was created by him.
That is a false statement. Perhaps you should review the witness testimony. A prosecution witness indicated that Martin approached and confronted Zimmerman. Zimmerman was following a person who behaving suspiciously and was breaking no laws. If Martin had continued on to his destination, there would have been no confrontation at all.
Only one person from the conflict was able to give a statement as to what happened, and they did not say anything under oath at the trial.
Zimmerman's wounds were consistent with his story. A witness stated he saw a light skinned man underneath a person who was either dark skinned or wearing a dark hood. You are ignoring evidence and testimony.
That has not been determined with certainty.
Are you suggesting we should assume Zimmerman is guilty and he should be required to prove his innocence?
If the other person has a gun, running from them isn't very useful as you certainly won't be able to outrun a bullet
I see you are failing at reading comprehension. According to Zimmerman, he didn't draw his gun until after Martin was on top of him. You also seem to be failing logic. If you saw a person with a gun, would you run up to him, hit him in the face, then get on top of him without disarming him? Would you even approach and/or attack him? Or, would you run away as soon as you saw the gun, especially if you thought the person was following you? If you were in a residential neighborhood, wouldn't you run to the nearest door, knock and ask them to call the police? If you were near home, wouldn't you run for home? If you had a phone, even if you were on it talking to someone, wouldn't you call the police?
If you actually believe that is how it happened, then how do you explain George being able to draw, aim, and fire his weapon? The story simply doesn't add up. Any normal person after having experienced such an event would not be able to do such a thing.
Aren't you going to address the claim and offer? No? I guess we can infer your answer from that. Zimmerman didn't have to aim. All he had to do was draw the weapon and put it in approximate contact with the person on top of him and pull the trigger. And, having been in the position Zimmerman claims to have been in and having experienced such a thing, yes such an event is possible. Granted I didn't have a gun, but I was able to grab something from the ground and hit my assailant dazing him and then buck him off me.
They had no case and they knew it. This prosecution was solely because of those protests and it failed because there was no evidence to disprove Zimmerman's version of events. The prosecution had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was guilty and the original DA knew they couldn't. Because of the uproar, a special prosecutor was appointed who brought charges and lost at trial because, like you, they decided to ignore the fact in America one is considered innocent until proven guilty. This trial was nothing but a politically motivated malicious prosecution to appease the protesters.
Zimmerman's next move should be to sue the state of Florida for malicious prosecution asking for legal fees, lost wages, pain and suffering, and enough compensatory damages to allow him to move elsewhere and start a new life.
That 'unarmed kid' was a 17 year old football player who had hit and knocked down a person, straddled him, and was pounding his head into the concrete sidewalk while stating he was going to kill the person he was battering.
If I were straddling your chest and pounding your head into a sidewalk, would you feel in danger of serious injury and death?
What matters is that it seems Zimmerman followed him, confronted him,
Except, that is not what the evidence and the testimony showed. The testimony showed that Zimmer followed Martin, and that Martin confronted Zimmerman
and was probably not realistically in fear of his life when he shot him.The whole "slamming on the pavement" thing has been contested. There really isn't hard evidence of what happened.
You seem unclear on the American legal system. Zimmerman is considered innocent until proven guilty. In fact, there was hard evidence Zimmerman's head had been slammed into the sidewalk. His wounds were consistent with that. But, that is actually irrelevant because there was no hard evidence that it didn't happen and that is what the prosecution had to provide. Zimmerman never had to prove his innocence, rather the prosecution had to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
As to the excluded evidence, it goes to the character of the victim and the claims of the prosecution. The prosecution's whole case revolved around the idea that Martin was an innocent victim who did nothing wrong, wouldn't attack anyone, and was unjustly targeted and murdered. They put forth Martin as a good kid who wouldn't commit a crime, wouldn't hurt anyone, and wouldn't be the aggressor. The excluded evidence cast doubt on that characterization. It showed that Martin could have been the aggressor and wasn't such a good kid after all.
Actually, whether or not Martin was a thug has bearing as it directly effects the prosecutions case. The prosecution case revolved around the idea that Martin would never have been and was not the aggressor, but that isn't the way thugs act. If Martin was a thug, then he might have attacked Zimmerman as Zimmerman claimed.
By the way, it was Martin on drugs, not Zimmerman.
Early on in your post, you state "I think they probably could make the case. Murder no way, but Manslaughter ", but then later you say "I don't care enough to go and review the evidence". You are making statements based on ignorance and it really sounds like you believe Zimmerman should have been treated as guilty until proven innocent.
So, if I am beating your head against a concrete sidewalk, no one can attempt to stop me because your life isn't in danger, right? Remember, you are stating one that slamming someone's head repeatedly into the ground while saying one is going to kill said someone isn't life-threatening.
Except, Martin didn't know Zimmerman was armed. All he knew was that someone was watching/following him. Neither watching nor following is a crime. If Martin felt threatened, he could have called the police, yet he didn't. Martin didn't have to confront Zimmerman at all. He could have just continued on to his destination at which point nothing would have happened.
You are making assumptions based on absolutely no evidence to justify your biased opinion. Or, to put it more bluntly, you are making shit up.
Speaking at a press conference after the verdict, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said he was "disappointed" with the verdict. "Who followed who? Isn't that what this case boils down to?" de la Rionda said
No, that is not what this case boils down to. What this case boils down to is who attacked whom first and how. That is why this case should never have gone to trial. The physical evidence corroborated Zimmerman's account and didn't disprove it. Eye witnesses corroborated Zimmerman's version. And, in the United States of American, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. The prosecution couldn't prove it's case and appealed to emotion and tried to mislead the jury and shift the burden of proof during closing arguments. The prosecutor stated that Zimmerman's defense needed prove Zimmerman's version of events and had not done so. But, Zimmerman didn't have to do that. It is the prosecution's job to prove it was false beyond a reasonable doubt. They couldn't and didn't and so tried to shift the burden of proof and used appeal to emotion to win. They failed.
It is quite amazing to see so many comments that are stating that Zimmerman is guilty while not knowing the facts. Some obviously started from the position that Zimmerman should be assumed guilty and that his defense had to prove him innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt. That is not how the law works.
Really? To which laws are you referring? Please be specific.
Actually, witnesses testified that Martin was on top of Zimmerman AND testified that the only way Martin could have received the wounds he had was if he was bent over Zimmerman.
Back the fuck up.
Zimmerman didn't have his gun drawn nor was he threatening Martin. If you have evidence to the contrary, why weren't you a witness in the trial?
As Zimmerman was apparently unarmed, Martin had little to fear. Even if Martin was afraid, he attacked and knocked Zimmerman to the ground. At that point, Zimmerman wasn't a threat (remember Zimmmerman didn't have his gun drawn) and Martin could have run away. He didn't. He got on top of Zimmerman and continued to attack him. That is not self-defense by any stretch of the imagination.
Now, if you think Zimmerman didn't have anything to fear, this is what we can do. We can get together and you can lie down with your head on a sidewalk. I will straddle you and pound your head into the concrete two or three times. Then, you can tell everyone if you were afraid you might be seriously injured or killed.
Cultural backgrounds don't change the truth nor does it excuse lying on the stand. Zimmerman should sue the state for malicious prosecution.
Do yourself a favor and read the fucking law, m'kay? Read the definitions they use and specifically what it says. There you will learn the law doesn't shut down internet cafe's that actually provide internet access. It only effects the ones running claimed "internet sweepstakes".
Really? The couple I checked out, neither had wifi and there was no way to break out of the games.
It is another example of the law not keeping up with the times. New tech created a loop hole and theses people are exploiting it. Who benefits from the law? Basically, the old and the poor. These places are almost exclusively in low income neighborhoods and mostly elderly neighborhoods. The victims of these places don't understand the technologies. While the machines are effectively slot machines, the operators call them sweepstakes. But, the "sweepstakes" involves multiple locations and the "player" hitting a button at the right time. But, there doesn't have to be winner where one is playing. Of course, how do you tell if there is ever a real winner?
The only winners in these places are the operators.