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Florida Law May Accidentally Ban Computers and Smartphones
GrueMaster writes "Did Florida ban computers and smartphones? They tried banning Internet Cafes, but the wording in the law is overly broad. '... it's the wording that's problematic, as it defines a slot machine as "any machine or device or system or network of devices" that can be used in games of chance. Turns out the Internet is full of gambling sites, which is where the definition runs into some problems. Consuelo Zapata, owner of the Miami-Dade county Internet cafe Incredible Investments, LLC, is suing the state (PDF) to overturn the ban, saying that definition is too broad and could be applied to any number of electronic devices. "
fuck Rick Scott.
Florida is a stupid as Texas, and twice as swampy.
They will be forgotten in a few years...
People responsible for crafting laws should be penalized for poor and vague wording.
Even if it was unintentionally vague (I suspect it is frequently intentional, too).
Talk about overly broad, isn't a coin a device that can be used in a game of chance?
Its mind boggling. Hey! They have a whole lot of hotels in Florida. MOST of them will have a complimentary computers to use in an office setting. Are they going to ban those computers so they cannot be used in Internet gambling? That will make an impression. It will impress people that Florida is braindead.
Clearly the newspaper companies in Florida were paying off the government so that people would no longer have access to computers and have no choice but to buy newspapers again.
I thought everything that government did was well planned and orchestrated, directed by the corporations that own everything, including politicians. Next thing you know, somebody will challenge the idea of the all powerful military-industrial complex that has had its share of resources in the US budget reduced from 38% of GDP in 1945 to ~ 4-5% today. That is crazy talk.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
It is florida, afterall.
This isn't about making internet cafes illegal, it's targeted at the small gambling rooms that lure mostly old people.
Are you sure?
http://gawker.com/5800990/did-florida-accidentally-ban-sex So, what is there left to do in Florida? Die?
Might as well ban public libraries while they are at it.
There are reasons why Florida has its own tag on Fark.
This is one of them.
--
BMO
Florida is a strange mix of coke dealers, elderly retirees, theme park employees, and Scientologists. There's a reason you don't hear about things quite this crazy coming from other states.
here
They're suing because the statute would ban their promotional games, not becaise it would ban computers just because they use the Internet and the Internet has games on it.
Please stop drawing a distinction between smartphones and computers (and tablets). They are all computers. Allowing the farce of distinction to survive is a major part of the reason smartphones can be classified as "applicances" and don't have to follow laws about openness and intercompatability.
laws about openness and intercompatability.
Hahahahahaha!
Just us?
Sorry to be blunt but from seen from outside the US, well, you can see that it's a legitimate question.
I guess the rich dont need to use the cafes. But hey, I bet they are pretty handy for someone who didn't grow up with a computer. No setup fees. Maybe a little free help. No big startup cost on a fixed income. A reason to get out of the house. If there is any state in the union that should have them, its flori-duh.
With one signature, Internet cafes in Florida close
Effect on workers, patrons immediate when Scott makes bill law
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20130411/BUSINESS/304110024/With-one-signature-Internet-caf-s-Florida-close?nclick_check=1
Applicances are not intercompatible with appliances and intercompatability between the word 'compatibility' and the prefix 'inter' is dubious at best. As is any claim you make.
"any machine or device or system or network of devices" that can be used in games of chance.
Anyone driven a car in Florida? Going to the grocery store is a game of chance down there. :-)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I draw the distinction based on whether someone else's permission is required for a given program to execute. Android devices are computers; iProducts and game consoles aren't.
Why did they need to create a new law when it was already illegal except for the indian and cruise casinos... probably because they profited from it ( http://bigstory.ap.org/article/57-charged-florida-gambling-scandal )
This is roughly as stupid as when people claimed Florida banned sex a couple years ago. Read the bill. It clearly refers to devices that perform gaming function on activation; not general purpose devices.
Common sense, people. What is more likely? A hundred and forty legislators voting to ban computers, or a bogus lawsuit with a silly premise?
... is to file charges against the governor for possessing these now-illegal things.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Just means they can't be used to compile C++ in Florida.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
All those devices used in a big game of chance....sorry folks dependant on what whatever their lottery helps fund!
The "internet cafes" near me (I'm in Florida) are certainly not there to be used as you would expect. You go in to buy credit to play games on the machines, which only have gambling programs. The definitions in this bill, and the word "internet cafe", are all being improperly used here. These shops were quite literally for gambling. The one closest to me was called "Lucky Day Internet Sweepstakes." I did see one where you could also browse the internet hourly, but this was clearly not the primary focus.
'MURICA!
Have gnu, will travel.
I guess I'm breaking the law just by posting this :o
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
Yes yes mommy liberal, sending big gubbamint to save us all!
States are like school mates. Mississippi may be the retarded one you feel sorry for, Texas is the dumb jock who always talks about enlisting in the service as soon as he gets out of high school because he can't do anything else, but Florida is the genetically defective creep who you suspect is dissecting road kill in his basement after school.
First off, these aren't the kind of internet cafe' one can go to and get on-line and check one's email or visit a web site. The computers only have gambling program(s) and it is basically a virtual slot machine. These places don't even offer wifi so you can bring your own computer. They are, in effect, illegal casinos.
Second, the law specifically defines the establishments and computers. It only applies to computers which are set up to ONLY run programs that are games of chance and the establishments that have them.
Third, the reason the law talks about internet cafe's is because that is what these places call themselves.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
This would solve the hanging chad and paper trail problem.....
I'm sure it's been said already, but I just wanted to say, on behalf of the remaining Internet: THANK YOU!
An article describing these "Sweepstakes" parlors http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/55670-the-casino-next-door
BTW, I found this URL in a previous /. post, http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3638315&cid=43421823
Yes yes mommy liberal, sending big gubbamint to save us all!
Sorry, but this was passed by the fucktard conservative Florida government. Here's a clue, if it is a law that is against individuals doing things that hurt no one but possibly themselves, you can bet it is the Repugs behind it. If it is something that hurts a lot of people but makes someone a lot of money they are all for it.
In their rush to infringe on the 2nd Amendment, New York unwittingly banned cops from carrying certain guns earlier this year:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NY_SAFE_Act#Criticisms
Poorly thought-out authoritarian extra-constititutional power-grabs aren't solely a left- or right-wing thing.
Then why can't the police just charge them under *existing* anti-gambling laws?
I don't trust Rick Scott or FL Republicans....seems every law passed in these places must have a secret second purpose that kicks back money/power to conservatives and their allies.
Who is benefitting from this 'internet cafe' ban?
Thank you Dave Raggett
Before you jump to defend the internet cafe owner, read his complaint. The "internet cafe" was a disguised gambling den.
TLDR:-
1. Their computers all carry a "Game Display" programme.
2. Buying internet time entitles the user to participate in sweepstakes where they can win prizes. The more time you buy, the more chances you get to join the sweepstakes.
3. The "Game Display" was expressly created to, in their own words, "instill in the patron a sense of excitement and entertainment".
Yes, the law is overly broad and should be reworded, but in this case it did not get the wrong victim.
Having said that, the politicians appear to be equally dirty. There is some suspicion that this legislation was about politicians covering their butts and keeping legalized gambling interests happy.
If gambling is illegal in Florida, why are people still allowed to bet on Wall Street? It's just another bookmaking operation
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Computers are tools of science, so maybe Florida really did intend on banning them.
A newer law seeks to ban anyone who admitted themselves for a phyc eval from owning guns, whether you passed or failed....
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
Corrupt governments just LOVE overly broad laws because they can easily sneak them past the sheeple since they are "tough on (whatever the flavour of the month is)" but once passed can be used to violate all kinds of civil rights that has nothing to do with the original intent. It's how we got stuck with the Patriot Act. Just think of the children!
OK, pretty funny, but.......
C++ compilers are good, they produce what was asked of them (garbage in, garbage out......)
Pointy headed bosses often hire cheap idiots to "reduce costs" and minimise testing because it's "a cost with no benefit", resulting in buggy systems (if by chance you are unlucky enough to have such a PHB)
Therefore, develepment of computer applications is a "game of chance", depending on whether the PHB undestands development, best practices, etc or not.
Therefore the software development industry is banned.
This is stupid of course the law didn't ban computers.
defining the term "slot machine or device" for purposes of specified gambling provisions; providing a rebuttable presumption that a device, system, or network is a prohibited slot machine;
See the words SPECIFIED GAMBLING PROVISIONS
Stop trolling slashdot.
That kind of law is already in effect in Sweden. If you own a computer, smartphone or any electronic device that can theoretically connect to the internet (as is or through modifications) has to be registered with the government and you have to have a license to be allowed to own such a device.
Florida is a safe haven to libertarians compared to the snowy north.
That may have been the intent of the law but the definitions are being used here exactly as they were written. As the law is written even old school arcade games and pinball machines are illegal (as extra lives/balls counts as a "prize"). Also, any computer can be a gambling machine thanks to all the fancy things you can do with javascript nowadays. Hell, even your old NES console counts as a gambling device as many NES games let you get extra lives for certain scores.
Anyone remember this? --> ehttp://yro.slashdot.org/story/02/03/25/1345224/cuba-bans-pc-sales-greece-bans-video-games
So this is very similar to what happened in Greece back in 2002. Then, in an effort to ban illegal slot machines they effectively banned all computer games.
Why in Gods name did Florida ban internet cafes? Does this include fast food places like McDonalds and Wendys? What posessed them to try and shut down internet cafes in the first place? They don't like people drinking coffee and surfing the web? How about shoe laces? Do they like shoe laces? It makes as much sense to me for them to ban shoe laces as it does for them to ban internet cafes. How about drinking glasses? Have they banned drinking glasses? It makes as much sense to me for them to ban drinking glasses as it does for them to ban internet cafes. So to sum up: drinking glasses ok, shoe laces ok, internet cafes bad. Hmmm. One of these things is not like the others. Does anyone have any idea why?
Another government screwup, so what's new?
And my microwave has a computer chip in it too. We should ignore form and just count anything with a microprocessor in it as a computer.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
Can any one come up with some ideas? I dream of a future where everything is illegal and/or regulated. That's the America our founding fathers set out to build. Congratulations Florida!
This isn't about making internet cafes illegal, it's targeted at the small gambling rooms that lure mostly old people.
but you can't actually ban one without the other.. well you could ban advertising gambling sites on the machines and the rooms the machines are in.
in fact, it's probably already banned? so why don't they enforce it?
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
What do you expect from a state run by Democrats? Should call them Idiotcrats.
File a police report on every single politician who could've stopped it for violating it.
The Greek government passed a similarly broadly-worded law in 2002 , also in its attempt to ban the games of chance (slot machines) that had infested cafes, pool halls and internet cafes. The wording of the law banned all video games, whether of chance or of skill, and whether they were played at home or at a business.
The article I'm linking is exaggerating; nobody was arrested or charged for playing video games at home (although the law allowed the authorities to do so). What the law really did was to eradicate all arcades, even those that had no slot machines. Want to play Pac-Man, Metal Slug and/or Street Fighter? Sorry, no go. Arcades started re-appearing more than five years later, even though the law is still in effect as far as I know.
Technology + lawmakers = stupidity. And we're not talking about cutting edge technology here, we're talking arcade video games that have been around since the 70s.
Improve at backgammon rapidly through addictive quickfire position quizzes: www.bgtrain.com
This is precisely what they intended, with "selective enforcement" being the tool of oppression.
A tyrannical State makes everything illegal, but "lets it slide" for friends of the State. I just read "Three Felonies a Day" by Harvey Silverglate, and it was a real eye opener. You would be amazed at all of the stuff that we do every day and take for granted as being legal, that isn't, and could result in federal prison should the State decide it.
The title of the book basically says it all - the average American unwittingly commits three serious felonies every day of their lives.
That's the goal of far too much legislation. This way law enforcement always has something they can charge people with that they don't like and lets everyone else go about their business. We no longer have a "rule of law" in this country, we have a "rule of staying on law enforcement's good side." In all likelihood, you committed 3 felonies yesterday and will do so again today:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842.html
When I see my local politicians doing this, it just shows how much they like the current setup:
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/ken-cuccinelli-virginia-oral-anal-sex-sodomy
Isn't a penny a device used for games of chance? Isn't your hand one when you play rock paper scissors?
Hell, that wording probably bans dice. No D&D at the local game store, I guess.
Florida shouldn't be allowed to make laws of vote. Seriously. They make California look good.
It should be possible, without a law degree, to deduct the laws of a society directly from common sense.
It should be possible but in practice it (unfortunately) is not. Our society is too complex and there are too many corner cases for any non-trivial problem to keep things simple. Furthermore you and I might very easily differ on what constitutes common sense and even if we do agree we could easily come to differing conclusions based on the exact same facts. I agree with you in principle but the real world just isn't as simple as you and I would like it to be. If you write a general rule trusting to "common sense" to fill in the details what you will end up with is a bunch of corner cases and people taking advantage of loopholes and causing problems until such time as the law is sufficiently clarified either through legal precedent or additional laws. The complexity will inevitably come.
According to the Florida Senate's website, section 849.16 reads:
The human brain and auditory system is a machine or device (both mechanical, through the eardrum, and electronic, because of the signals that pass along neurons) that can be activated (through a user saying "I bet you ...") and the user may receive or become entitled to money if the condition of the bet (which may rely upon an outcome unpredictable by the user) is satisfied. So unless the State of Florida has defined "machine" and "device" to exclude things with an organic component, which I'm guessing they have not done, a human being would satisfy the definition of "slot machine or device" according to a very technical reading and interpretation.
I had to check for myself to verify they had one, but yeah...ugh the state Lottery...
http://flalottery.com/
for what it's worth they have Monopoly branded lottery tickets
Thank you Dave Raggett
Florida Man bans smart phones, computers, and the Internet!
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Florida
There are areas of this world so corrupt and broken, we need a new term to describe them. Florida, Texas and Greece are three such places.
When Greece, using the same excuse of 'electronic gambling', issued its ban, the UK government, in conjunction with the actual Greek embassy, warned UK holiday-makers that they would be IMPRISONED if they travelled with their children's Gameboys. No joke. No urban myth. Brits were told hand-held gaming devces in Greece meant prison.
The West has a VERY sick idea of 'law'. Because of the pseudo-democracy that operates in the West, the WORD of laws created by lawmakers is considered sacrosanct. The highest courts ONLY test the 'accurate' meaning of the written laws they invorce.
In Florida, SWAT can now legally raid any owner of an Internet connected computer. They can go in with guns blazing. They can shoot the pets, and murder non-cooperating citizens. And all of this state-sanctioned violence will be completely legal. Think about that, you Yanks. Your Supreme Court has said over and over that each State of the USA, within the Constitution (and restricting computers does NOT infringe the Constitution) is free to make and enforce its own laws.
In Texas, for instance, a young woman of 18 (at the time) was taken prisoner by three men, and subject to a serious BDSM sexual assault by beating with a heavy paddle on her buttocks. She specifically withdraw ANY implied consent before this happened. Her 'crime' as that she was voluntarily attending a Summer school at her Charter school, and had left campus to get some breakfast before the first class. When the pervert that ran the school discovered he had an 'excuse' to sexually assault several young women, this person in question stated that she was withdrawing herself from the school to avoid the assault.
Anyway, after she was raped (any serious sexual assault inflicted on an individual against their will is defined as rape in decent nations), she and her Mom took legal action through the various Texas courts and eventually to the Supreme Court of the USA. She lost at every level. The US Supreme Court ruled that Texas has the right to give immunity to educators inflicting BDSM assault on their pupils in the context of an educational establishment, regardless of age. Enrollment by those over 18 is de facto acceptance of the ability of 'educators' to assault them. A 36-year-old Mom attending some classes at that Charter school could 'enroll' assuming her adult status made the CP provisions meaningless in her case, and then be forced by as many school 'assistants' as necessary to bend and submit to as much beating as the 'head' though was required, all within the Law of the USA.
You Yanks are so THICK, you think 'principles' determine the treatment of 'citizens' in the USA. They do NOT. Even if laws infringe your constitutional rights (like being arrested when you film uniformed state goons), you have to 'bend over' and take the abuse- only later fighting the abuse in court. If you know your rights, and fight the abuse at point of abuse, the US Supreme Court has ruled by doing so, you are a de facto criminal. YOU have no right to defend your constitutional rights- only the courts may do that later (which is too late in many cases).
The dirty shills here will tell you it doesn't matter what Florida did, or its funny, or they couldn't really act against ordinary computer owners. This is BULLS**T. The Florida law gives the State, for instance, the legal right to raid the home of ANY black man owning a computer. Or any activist. That raid will be completely LAWFUL. That raid will be completely constitutional. And you f***ing idiots talk about 'accidental'.
I fully support these laws to crack down on legal gambling!
(Disclaimer: I bought a bunch of bitcoins)
Brings back memories of trips to my Grandma's house in Florida when I was a little kid. She had a list of all the winning numbers from the last X months of drawings. Then she would let me pick the numbers for the next go. I never did better than two. I'm pretty sure that set me up for a lifetime of nerdy math and stats obsession.
Whats the matter, is it too difficult to send in a undercover cop and bust the bad ones? They have to ban them all? Extend that logic a bit and know horror.
I guess its ok then to make sure there cant be one. Forever.
"it defines a slot machine as "any machine or device or system or network of devices" that can be used in games of chance. " I think they do not realize they are also banning the "State Lottery" Since it is a system or network of devices that is used in games of chance. I think they better rethink the wording in that law. or no more education funding......hmmmm
>> "any machine or device or system or network of devices" that can be used in games of chance.
Besides card tables, this also includes Candyland and other board games with spinners or dice. The entire game is a "system."
One way to get the governor voted out of office would be for the state to ban the dreidel.
This is also a way to prevent any more Wheel of Fortune roadtrips to Florida.