We are talking about one nation with questionable rights to free expression (with the most oppressive copyright/patent system in the world), attempting to dictate to another country regarding the rights to free expression they grant.
For my law to apply, it would need to be actively contributing to (or involved in) the suppression of US-recognized human rights.
Would it apply here too? Like you could get in trouble for supplying stuff to the DEA that will be used to supress the basic human right to choose what one does with one's own body?
Or would it be a glaring double standard? Sell to the DEA and FBI all you want, but supply the Chinese equivalent and you are in trouble?
I think we need to worry about fixing our own shit before we try to dictate morals to China.
Extortion involves a threat of violence. So no go on that one.
If they aren't, then their claim that using the ODBC driver forces you to go GPL is a bunch of bullshit.
Pretty much.
One thing to keep in mind though is that I don't think the commonly held belief that "linking = derivative work" has ever been tested fully in court. Geeks widely believe that calling a program through a shell process doesn't create a derivative work, or communicating to it through a socket, but linking does.
How much legal basis this has, I'm not sure of. Keep in mind this question transcends licenses, it's a question of copyright law and derivative works.
You are correct. But it also means that the only hurdle for making MySQL completely free to use in any type of application is a BSD-style client library.
Not an insurmountable task. Not easy either, but not impossible.
It's only a danger of GPL when it's a tool that will be linked tightly into other apps.
For standalone applications which will never be linked so tightly with another application to be considered a derivative work under copyright law, the GPL is fine.
Way to go. If you pass something like that, many companies will just reject all orders from any countries listed on the bad list, or just ignore the law and claim ignorance later.
If you make widgets, and you get an order from China, are you really going to do the extensive research to prove the ordering company isn't somehow affiliated with the government? If you ship, then have you violated the law if it turns out they are some sort of government sub-sub-contractor?
I don't know if you've kept up with Bob Lazar's hydrogen efforts, but that was a major problem he ran into, the engines started to self-destruct around 60,000 miles due to embrittlement.
We have executive orders which are probably worse in many ways. Executive orders are issued by the president, with no other approval required. They can only be issued to governmental agencies, but since federal law enforcement is a government agency, it basically gives the president nearly unlimited, mostly unchecked, power.
Sure congress can rewrite the laws to specifically forbid the action in the executive order, but the president has supreme veto power, so he can veto the amendment.
There's not even public notification for executive orders that concern "national security", so there's an entire body of secret laws out there, that no one can know if they violate or not until the FBI shows up.
You can challenge them in court, but the supreme court has only rarely struck down executive orders.
It's not like this is the first thing you've heard about UK oppression. There was that memo sent out... about 220 years ago.. you must have not gotten it. It's even in my sig!
Of course it's sarcastic. An S-video cable with 00 gauge wire would be as thick as your arm. Guess that other Slashdot story about people misinterperting sarcastic comments is pretty true.
Ah, another jumper. I thought I was the only one to go straight from a C64 to a 486sx. Seems like most everyone had some other stops inbetween.
My progression was backward though, the C64 was mine, but the 486 was, at least at first, a family machine. A Tandy Sensation II (the last model tandy branded computer ever made), with a 24 pin color dot matrix printer. Color dot matrix was really a joke, but it half-assed worked. Came with sound and 2X CD-ROM, and 2400 baud modem (which I didn't convince my parents to let me hook up until 1994).
So I can say I've never had the joy of actually doing anything with a 300 baud modem, since I never got one for the commodore.
Blaming the imagined suicide of young girls on some imagined misogyny is typical liberal tripe. The fact that he just made it all up is very liberal too, like the example I gave, Michael Moore, who doesn't let facts get in the way his "documentary".
Heh, Telengard. What a crazy game that was. I assume you play one of the newer versions? Waiting for the walls to draw in each room was the worst part.:)
We are talking about the impact of "non-commercial use only" clauses on potential damages.
"A" is hoping to use the program and future programs to earn money
Well, too bad, he can't unless the work is tightly held. He put a non-commercial use clause in there, and unless he owns 100% of the IP he can't dual license it under something that would allow him to do that without getting a release from every person that contributed any bit of the code.
That's what this discussion is about, the way that non-commercial clauses might impact the primary copyright holders right to sue in the future.
Not to mention emotional distress, etc.
Emotional Distress?! The only time that's even plausible is if there is physical injury or illness.
Rememer, on can sue for slander and libel.
Lacking a registration of trademark, "A" would have little protection against people putting his name on things he wouldn't want them to. Trademark law has little to do with the situation we are talking about here. If he wanted to rely on trademark suits he could have just used the BSD license or something less restrictive.
Slashdot Mirror
As are you.
We are talking about one nation with questionable rights to free expression (with the most oppressive copyright/patent system in the world), attempting to dictate to another country regarding the rights to free expression they grant.
And no, I'm not leftist, I'm a Libertarian.
The Postgres community does just fine without a company behind them.
Artifex does a bug bounty for ghostscript, but it's for patches, not for reports. $500 or $1000, depending on how critical a bug you fix.
For my law to apply, it would need to be actively contributing to (or involved in) the suppression of US-recognized human rights.
Would it apply here too? Like you could get in trouble for supplying stuff to the DEA that will be used to supress the basic human right to choose what one does with one's own body?
Or would it be a glaring double standard? Sell to the DEA and FBI all you want, but supply the Chinese equivalent and you are in trouble?
I think we need to worry about fixing our own shit before we try to dictate morals to China.
Extortion involves a threat of violence. So no go on that one.
If they aren't, then their claim that using the ODBC driver forces you to go GPL is a bunch of bullshit.
Pretty much.
One thing to keep in mind though is that I don't think the commonly held belief that "linking = derivative work" has ever been tested fully in court. Geeks widely believe that calling a program through a shell process doesn't create a derivative work, or communicating to it through a socket, but linking does.
How much legal basis this has, I'm not sure of. Keep in mind this question transcends licenses, it's a question of copyright law and derivative works.
You are correct. But it also means that the only hurdle for making MySQL completely free to use in any type of application is a BSD-style client library.
Not an insurmountable task. Not easy either, but not impossible.
I have to add, I personally use PostgreSQL, which is pretty much on par or better than MySQL in nearly all areas, and is BSD-style licensed.
I don't want to see MySQL go away, I like having choices, and I do support in general the use of the GPL.
It's only a danger of GPL when it's a tool that will be linked tightly into other apps.
For standalone applications which will never be linked so tightly with another application to be considered a derivative work under copyright law, the GPL is fine.
Then just pass a trade embargo. Don't make a vague law that puts a big burdon on businesses.
Way to go. If you pass something like that, many companies will just reject all orders from any countries listed on the bad list, or just ignore the law and claim ignorance later.
If you make widgets, and you get an order from China, are you really going to do the extensive research to prove the ordering company isn't somehow affiliated with the government? If you ship, then have you violated the law if it turns out they are some sort of government sub-sub-contractor?
What about embrittlement though?
I don't know if you've kept up with Bob Lazar's hydrogen efforts, but that was a major problem he ran into, the engines started to self-destruct around 60,000 miles due to embrittlement.
You know it's GPL right?
It's not like the open source MySQL is going to go away if they buy MySQL AB.
the part where it says that suicide is a "crime" in 6 states
Was a crime, repealed in the 1960s.
We have executive orders which are probably worse in many ways. Executive orders are issued by the president, with no other approval required. They can only be issued to governmental agencies, but since federal law enforcement is a government agency, it basically gives the president nearly unlimited, mostly unchecked, power.
Sure congress can rewrite the laws to specifically forbid the action in the executive order, but the president has supreme veto power, so he can veto the amendment.
There's not even public notification for executive orders that concern "national security", so there's an entire body of secret laws out there, that no one can know if they violate or not until the FBI shows up.
You can challenge them in court, but the supreme court has only rarely struck down executive orders.
It's not like this is the first thing you've heard about UK oppression. There was that memo sent out... about 220 years ago.. you must have not gotten it. It's even in my sig!
Of course it's sarcastic. An S-video cable with 00 gauge wire would be as thick as your arm. Guess that other Slashdot story about people misinterperting sarcastic comments is pretty true.
Ah, another jumper. I thought I was the only one to go straight from a C64 to a 486sx. Seems like most everyone had some other stops inbetween.
My progression was backward though, the C64 was mine, but the 486 was, at least at first, a family machine. A Tandy Sensation II (the last model tandy branded computer ever made), with a 24 pin color dot matrix printer. Color dot matrix was really a joke, but it half-assed worked. Came with sound and 2X CD-ROM, and 2400 baud modem (which I didn't convince my parents to let me hook up until 1994).
So I can say I've never had the joy of actually doing anything with a 300 baud modem, since I never got one for the commodore.
Blaming the imagined suicide of young girls on some imagined misogyny is typical liberal tripe. The fact that he just made it all up is very liberal too, like the example I gave, Michael Moore, who doesn't let facts get in the way his "documentary".
What part of In the U.S. suicide has never been treated as a crime nor punished by property forfeiture or ignominious burial. didn't you get?
Psssh, don't let facts get in the way of a good Liberal rant. How will we dictate how people act without fake statistics? I'm telling Michael Moore.
Suicide is legal and only vaguely stigmatized
You are implying suicide is illegal in the US. This is a common misconception.
Heh, Telengard. What a crazy game that was. I assume you play one of the newer versions? Waiting for the walls to draw in each room was the worst part. :)
The definition of a Law in science is something that can be proven to exist every time at all points in the universe
Unless you exist at every time at all points in the universe, it might be pretty difficult to prove the "law" applies there.
Here's a hint: Grade school science books are often wrong. Very very wrong. Not just "oversimplification wrong", but completely and utterly wrong.
Maybe they want BeOS? :)
We are talking about the impact of "non-commercial use only" clauses on potential damages.
"A" is hoping to use the program and future programs to earn money
Well, too bad, he can't unless the work is tightly held. He put a non-commercial use clause in there, and unless he owns 100% of the IP he can't dual license it under something that would allow him to do that without getting a release from every person that contributed any bit of the code.
That's what this discussion is about, the way that non-commercial clauses might impact the primary copyright holders right to sue in the future.
Not to mention emotional distress, etc.
Emotional Distress?! The only time that's even plausible is if there is physical injury or illness.
Rememer, on can sue for slander and libel.
Lacking a registration of trademark, "A" would have little protection against people putting his name on things he wouldn't want them to. Trademark law has little to do with the situation we are talking about here. If he wanted to rely on trademark suits he could have just used the BSD license or something less restrictive.