Slashdot Mirror
$10k Bounty for Critical Windows Flaws
An anonymous reader writes "iDefense, a Verisign company, is offering $10,000 to any researchers who find and report to it information on a previously unknown Windows flaw for which Microsoft later issues a "critical" advisory, according to a story over at Washingtonpost.com. Not really surprising, considering that Russian hacking groups are now paying thousands of dollars for exploits that attack unpatched holes in Windows. From the article: "Details of the flaw must be submitted exclusively to iDefense by March 31. There is no limit on the number of prizes that can be paid: if five researchers find and report five different Windows flaws for which Microsoft later issues critical advisories, all five will get paid...iDefense will change the focus of the challenge with each quarter -- the next challenge may focus on another vendor, or it may just center on particular class of vulnerabilities.""
I mean, who better than Bill Gates himself to submit hundreds of thousands of Windows exploits and makes zillions of them?
1. Design flawed OS
2. Wait for bounty on flaws
3. Submit flaws
4. Issue "critical" advisories on those flaws
5. Profit!!!
Mind you, if the bounty is for announced "patch" instead of "advisory", it will be almost impossible for BG to claim the prize.
Virtual Betting on Facebook for non-geeks.
Now where's my check?
It's times like this, when the rent is due, that I wish I knew more about hacking. :(
Operation: Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?
If you're in the hunt, don't focus on Windows 3.1 or ME, since as of June 30, 2006 Windows will no longer be issuing critical warnings for either of those Operating Systems even if they know they exist. Well they might issue one out of the goodness of their hearts to encourage an upgrade to X...err Vista, but there will be no official patch.
On second thought, maybe looking at Windows 3.0 coding errors would reveal flaws in Vista. After all, think of the WMF flaw...
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I can't imagine MS is gonna be too pleased with this.
And they have a couple law-talkin guys on staff.
Why would "russian hacker groups" be paying thousands of dollars for unpatched expliots? Not many remaining?
You forgot step 4.0.1 ???
Which is probably:
Buy Bounty company - then pay self.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Because they are certainly gonna need it.
This is what Linux companies should be doing. Pay developers that find an exploit in Linux a couple thousand dollars and make sure the hole gets fixed quickly. Obviously then it becomes a race for the companies to have their own employees find and fix the holes before outside developers do the same. Maybe have some lesser (since they're already getting a paycheck) bounty available to their own employees that find the holes and fix them.
As open as Linux is this kind of motivation could really bring in the eyeballs to make those holes shallow and get them patched up. Make the bounty $10,000 for critical bugs and maybe $2000 for lesser security bugs. If you get the kernel patched up then start working on libraries and then apps and by then it should be time to start looking at the kernel again.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
That isn't a lot when you could sell the exploit on the internet like the WMF exploit was a snip at $5000 each, think how many people bought that in the malicous website, porn internet, fake-anti spyware companies like Win Hound. Some how I don't think this will last long.
iexplore.exe
You may send the prize money to PO Box 3872, Moncton, NB, Canada
They're investing in the first corporate-sponsored botnet. Now you can give your spam relay the corporate sponsorship it's always been craving! For an added bonus, we'll throw in a few auth certificates if you decide to become an elite Platinum Botnet customer!
Don't delay, act now! Really, we mean it. Because offer is only valid until Microsoft's next Critical Advisory.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
check this:
normaluser finds cirtical flaw.
normaluser submits it exclusively to this company
the company talks anonymously to microsoft and tells them to pay up or some flaws will be sold to russian hackers. company demans that microsoft never publishes the details about the flaw and just silently fixes it in some of their next hotfixes, exclusive premium stuff or hidden knowledgebase entries or some major servicepack/featurepack alltogether, if microsoft doesnt cooperate company threatens to exploit the security flaw
company tells the normaluser that microsoft doesnt considers this hole as critical so they dont need to pay the normaluser any money in exchange.
repeat all over.
Some Vista developer is saying to himself, "I'm gonna code me a minivan!"
http://religiousfreaks.com/I mean, couldn't someone find a flaw, get together with 10 of his friends, and everyone reports it independantly? What happens then?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Or, iDefense may never pay any of the $10K prizes, citing independent discovery, not-really-critical status or just the fact that Verisign knows how to say "fuck you" better than almost anyone. Instead, they'll just get shitloads of free press for their cheesy security contest and a couple of marks will sign up for and/or buy whatever it is that Verisign/iDefense is hawking today.
Sorry, but $10k is very low for what it's actually worth, and they only pay if Microsoft marks it Critical...
Microsoft patches 87,000 critical flaws. Verisign files for bankruptcy protection.
This should put to rest any notion that for a researcher, it's *MUCH* more profitable to discover vulnerabilities affecting MS software than it is any other software vendor.
This trial by fire is also the reason why it's been quite some time since we've seen a blaster/sapphire-like vulnerability discovered.
There's no inherent security architecture protecting Firefox, Linux, OSX that doesn't also exist in Windows. They're merely relying on security through obscurity in a different sense. That sense being that not nearly as many researchers care of devote the time to analysis of codelines that won't be worht their while, either financially or egotistically.
This would be more about notoriety than money.
;)
Think about it - hacker gets paid $10k for finding a critical flaw and reporting it.
Hacker finds a critical flaw and blackmails a company for HUNDREDS of thousands.
It happens, I see it often enough when called in to do security-audits after-the-fact, and no, it's not me that's doing the blackmailing
A Man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties -- Albert Einstein
Better?
d iculous
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=re
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Maybe I am provocative... Anyway: when are we going to have similar initiatives for OSX or linux?
It's an interesting concept, but I wouldn't trust Verisign to get the tuna out of a can that had already been opened. I wonder what their deal is here.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
If iDefense (Verisign) can come up with $10K per critical Microsoft Windows flaw, why can't HP (or any other party interested in a secure environment) come up with money to support the development of applications for their own, very secure operating system: HP OpenVMS? Why does this industry focus so much on Microsoft Windows and totally ignore alternatives?
The $10K is certain. The few hundred K is a risk (or not an option for those with scruples)
-mkb
/* Hacker finds a critical flaw and blackmails a company for HUNDREDS of thousands. */
/* The $10K is certain. The few hundred K is a risk (or not an option for those with scruples) */
I believe the correct phrase is "extortion".
Given the above comment, it's also not an option for those that don't want to go to prison.
A Haiku: my language choices/assembler pascal lisp c/old school programmer
You're not seriously insinuating I lack scruples are you?
I said I see this when I'm asked to come in and TRY to make sure it doesn't happen again, not because I do it myself?
If you work in the finance sector you will KNOW this happens and you will KNOW Banks and other financial businesses don't like it publicized when they are taken for a ride.
A Man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties -- Albert Einstein
Yet someone else who is assuming I'm extorting companies?
I said in the above, I SEE this as part of my job, I don't DO it?
You guys love your conclusion-jumping don't you?
A Man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties -- Albert Einstein
I get paid for flaws I find.
Flaws = Features, or so I am told.
Great Scott, Marty! Do you know what this means? I need 1.21 gigawatts to...
*head esplodes* er, I mean "Erased... from existence!"
Users.
My prize may be donated to the Association for Smacking Stupid People Upside the Head.
I was sitting there at my desk, when all of a sudden PENIS BIRD happened.
)
( \
X
8====D
THE BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS, MR. GATES!
M$ is going to provide code for free, but to get the code you must pay Verisign $500.
They only need 20 people to sign up to break even.
/* Yet someone else who is assuming I'm extorting companies?
I said in the above, I SEE this as part of my job, I don't DO it?
You guys love your conclusion-jumping don't you? */
uhh.... seriously, no more espresso. I didn't accuse you of anything, I said that the thing you are DESCRIBING is extortion. Now, you can gather whatever info you want from the above comment, and re-think your response.
A Haiku: my language choices/assembler pascal lisp c/old school programmer
My apologies, but I would've thought ANYONE on Slashdot would know it's illegal and immoral and runs the risk of prision? That's common knowledge?
;)
What may NOT be common knowledge is how often it happens, because the companies it happens to don't like their customers to know their security has been compromised.
I read into your response because you stated the obvious... just having my first coffee of the morning now, cafe-latte, not espresso
A Man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties -- Albert Einstein
put down the crackpipe please.
Do you have a disease? you think everyone on the internet is talking about you?
Neither the GP nor its sibling post are implying anything about your conduct. Both are making the same point - for some people extortion isn't an option. They're not suggesting YOU engage in extortion.
No possible reading of their posts suggests anything different to me.
Besides, if you can't take a few cheap digs and insinuations without wetting yourself, you shouldn't be here, pinhead.
my password really is 'stinkypants'
-
Design flawed OS
-
Sell flawed OS
-
Profit !!!
Any ressemblance to any situation, person, event, past, present and future is completely fortuitous.Umm... what's to stop iDefense from sitting on the details of the flaw? They say the submission must be exclusive and to get the cash Microsoft must issue a critical advisory. If iDefense does whatever they want with it and doesn't tell Microsoft, doesn't that mean Microsoft can't issue an advisory on a flaw they don't know about and iDefense doesn't have to give the submitter jack? Yeah, I admit it's far-fetched but I'd be reading the fine print to say the least.
// Dumps core here
You crazy English are messing up my English!
http://outcampaign.org/
"Sir, you've just violated the DMCA by making our mistakes public. Off to jail you go."
If I discover an obscure remotely exploitable security flaw in a Microsoft beta product (thus, unlikely to lead to a "critical" advisory,) why should I not sit on it until a few months after release and get paid?
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
Klootzak is an extortionist!!
Klootzak smokes crack for breakfast!!
Klootzak jumps to conclusions!!
see, noone cares about you, your sad life or your pathetic insecurities.
my password really is 'stinkypants'
Bugs are worth more on the black market. Blackhats do not release their bugs to $VENDOR, that puts a stop to their money making by droping adware, keyloggers, and trojans on poor unsuspecting Joe Average User. No matter how large the bounty is, no matter how appealing the company tries to make it, it will only attract white hats, and some greyhats.
The best exploits stay underground for an extremely long time until a whitehat catches a blackhat doing something careless (like not deleting their exploit they load on a system) or sniffing the exploit off the wire.
da w00t. mtfnpy?
So now hacking can be a career? It's now beneficial to train lots of people in the art of hacking?
$10,000 for the first person to discover a backdoor into the national bank!
one of those people is gonna leave with $10,000, the rest are leaving with a lot more than that!
Rich Gentlemen Hide - The Existential Comic
I just picked this up from Gizmodo
That article is sez that Vista is too secure, and that the British govt wants a back door....
The Russian mafia are going pay haxors big bucks for a back door if they find one (like the recently found WMF exploit - which some claim is a purposely put in 0 day exploit). I cant believe a Governments would push for this type of exploit, as they really just fuel the spy-ware and hacking economy!
If the British govt get their way, Vista WILL have exploits, so its just a matter of finding them.
The haxors mindset is completley different if they know if there is a way in.
At the end of the day I'd rather have the Russian mafia snooping my computer... They are less likely to turn up at 5am in SWAT gear and arrest me for copying my CD to my iPod at the MPAA's request....
well... all I can say is I welcome these new Russian hacker overlords...
Maybe crackers can sell their exploits to the highest bidder with the 10 Grand to I Defense being the reserve price.
With all of the programmers out of jobs due to outsourcing, this is a way for American workers to compete on a level playing field.
what about e-bay.. sell the exploit to the higest bidder?
For sale: One windows Exploit, hardly used. Make money quickly through carefully placed advertizing. Reserve $10,000.
Right! ..Like I would leave it up to M$ to decide if it was "critical". I would sell it to the Ruskies and get paid.
Hahaha, good idea, obviously you're the entrepreneurial type. :)
Make more money just working in "white-hat" security consulting if you are good enough to find exploits though, any company involved in asset-management or even just high-volume b2b transactions craves those skills (for obvious reasons).
A Man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties -- Albert Einstein
No, I'm not insinuating anything about you. You read my post incorrectly.
I said that blackmailing for hundreds of thousands of dollars is not an option for those with scruples. There is no ambiguity in that sentence.
-mkb
My apologies, but I would've thought ANYONE on Slashdot would know it's illegal and immoral and runs the risk of prision? That's common knowledge?
OK, in the root of this thread, in the subject line, you say that more incentive is required to make this offer worthwhile. My reply and the GP state that there is, in fact, a possibility that there are security researchers who would rather have bugs fixed and get a smaller reward than risk prison time for a larger purse that may end up being nothing. This may be a result of a risk vs. reward calculation, OR it may be a result of actual honesty.
The fact that you see this so often suggests that it is NOT common knowledge that blackmail is illegal.
-mkb
Do the world a great service by finding windows bugs and then take it up the ass for 15 years when Shyster H. Lawyer decides to prosecute under the dmca because you took apart some binaries. Don't agree? Why do you think symantec and friends didn't want to mess with the BMG fiasco? Same reason. Microsoft made this mess, let them straighten it out.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Hurray, verisign is going broke!
d:\setup.exe
I'll take my ten grand now. Oh wait, I found another one!!
explorer.exe
There's twenty grand you owe me now!
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
In other news, Microsoft scraps their old advisory system and implements levels similar to Homeland Security Advisory System.
No bounty for you.
Either MS can start paying out for exclusive bugs, making iDefense's offer worthless, or they can start being more proactive about finding and patching critical problems.
It seems like a real win/win for Windows users no matter what.
the ability to turn on a machine running windows! now, where's my $10k?
I think with that bounty, they'll be bankrupt in 4 days.
Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.
Verisign iDefence charged with selling exploit information to Russian hacker groups
Ass? Uh...
the devil is in the details. Any really good flaw reported will fall just this side of critical. Not critical no $10,000.00. No bad press.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
1) Find flaw
2) Report to iDefense
3) Sign Non Disclosure Agreement as a condition for receiving payment
4) iDefense reports info to MS
5) MS never publishes flaw
6) ???....WTF!
Or perhaps I am just being too cynical.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the (supposed) good of its victims may be the most oppressive
thats 1.21 jiggawatts actually
RedHat
... and any other distro which enabled OpenSSH versions 2.3.1p1 through 3.3 by default.
;)
Mandrake
Slackware (IIRC)
So, is that $10,000 per instance...?
Well I've got a new zero day this morning, a SQL injection that allows you to bypass login on 'a particular web app'. It not worth much except perhaps a few roots, located with the appropriate googlehack.
Discovering a significant zero day is quite hard, as the exploit also needs to be reliable and not work every once in a while, some exploits can be used repeatedly on the same target, others are a one shot deal.
I've been trading private exploits/ tools for some time and have a reasonable collection, I trade a few tools and exploits I've developed. I don't want to sell what I've developed, I trade occasionally with folk who I can trust and share a bit with the crew I hang with.
It's a hobby , not a business but then you have guys like Dave Aitel who made a small fortune from it.
"Your computer is connected to the Net. We recommend ripping your modem, network card, and wireless networking devices to ensure your PCs safety."
There are two other effecting patching mechanisms:
1)With a turkey baster, apply a decoction of Starbucks's latest Windows XP patch, Christmas Blend, released this last December.
2)This is a more complex process, but well worth the effort.
a)unplug your AC
b)make a diagram of the weird slanty plug shape (the slants keep out hackers!)
c)with a pair of craftsman hacker pliers, ply the PC plug into an anti-hacker configuration matrix
d)plug into the anti-hacker power plug, making sure the switch on the power supply says 110 (the lower bandwidth also keeps hackers out)
Please stop stalking me, bro.
I don't mean to sound overly pessimistic, but this is my take on this: M$ has a long history on understating the severity of bugs. Their own ratings, for what we would call a "critical flaw", ranges anywhere from "This is a feature!" to "Minor bug". My opinion here is that the odds of M$ publicly agreeing with you that it's a critical flaw, are somewhat worse than your chance of winning the lottery, getting hit by lightning, and meeting an alien from another galaxy... all on the same day.
"Put your message in a modem, and throw it into the cyber-sea." - Rush
...iDefense recently signed a secret agreement with Microsoft whereby Microsoft would pay it $20,000 for every unknown Critical Windows Flaw it could find.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad