Yeah, that doesn't work either. It calls up the Dr. Horrible page where you can 'download all episodes' for 'free' but when you select that, it fails with an unspecified error. It does (helpfully) give you the option of downloading it for $1.99.
Um, I don't think so. Everyone in the states gets it for free and fuck the rest of the world? I don't think so.
Funny. I'm porting a python app (well, ok a python module) to Fortran currently. We do all our front-end work with Python, backend (that is, number crunching not database) with Fortran.
These sort of grammar questions can often be decided by breaking down the phrase as a response to a question...
"illegally downloading music": What are you doing? "Downloading music". How? "Illegally". [1]
and
"illegal downloading of music": What was done? "Illegal downloading". Of what? "Of music".[2]
Both of those are correct, if somewhat different in nuance.
"illegally downloading of music" is clearly quite wrong. What are you doing? "Downloading of music". Oops, that doesn't work. What was done? "Illegally downloading". Bah, that doesn't work either. Shoot the copy-editor.[3]
M>
[1] Well, not right now I'm not [2] I'm certainly not claiming that the downloading was illegal either. I live in Canada. We're allowed to download music. [3] No, don't do that, I'm not condoning violence. Laugh, it's funny.
I've just checked out the website, and found no way to look only for non-DRM music.
Wrong. Click the "MP3" link (4th item on the menu bar at the top of the page). Although I suppose I have to take into consideration that you may not be aware that MP3s contain no DRM.
Huh, I wish I could use my mod points to mod you up, but they've obviously been blown for this thread. Too bad you've posted as an AC too.
Excel has some notorious errors. These don't matter to all people, but the spreadsheet power-users should be wary
Thanks for the link. Interesting, but not relevant for me. Do people really try to do statistical analyses with Excel?
No peer-reviewed journal with a significant impact factor (science, nature, etc.) has a majority of plots done in Excel. Yes, there are conference proceedings with a lot Excel plots. Yes, there are low-end journals that have a lot of Excel plots. Even in these, I wouldn't say a majority of plots were done in Excel.
Ah yes, name calling. Care to discuss where the majority of "real work" is reflected? Science, Nature, etc? Or some of the "low-end" journals you refer to? Or (ick) conference proceedings? --Whatever-- It's rather useless to discuss this without discussing a particular field anyway. For the health sciences, the "hard" sciences, and for the applied sciences / engineering the standards, major journals, and locations of "important" work are totally different.
...most scientists/engineers use some other package
Well, I won't speak for "scientists", but for engineers we will have to disagree. I have rarely in 15 years of engineering consulting in the aerospace industry seen anyone use anything other than Excel for plots in reports. Well, other than a minority of the more academic folks at some of the defense agencies: DARPA, USAF, NASA, etc.
Ah, but you said you didn't use OO.o Writer & discouraged deployment because MS Excel was "better" than OO.o Calc. This is silly. You can buy Excel stand-alone & save money, so it IS cost-effective!
Huh? I never said we discouraged deployment. We do not deploy OO.o, but on the other hand, it's available to anyone who wants to use it. And yes, my whole point is that Excel is better than Calc for the tasks that we regularly perform. I don't know why that's such a repugnant idea for you. And, while you're dictating to me what's cost-effective for me, consider this: We can get an Office 2003 SME license (Small Business Edition, including Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook, Publisher, and some other useless cruft) for $275 (CAN$), while buying Excel 2003 on its own is $280 (CAN$). So, how does it make sense for us to adopt a complete different office suite (I suppose it's OO.o you're advocating), train people on it, deal with the incompatibilities in file types as we exchange data back and forth with our customers, and separately license Excel to get crappy plots? And you're calling me silly?
I have to call bullshit on you calling bullshit. What kind of lousy journals are you reading? In physics/theoretical biology journals, excel figs are very rare.
Oh, I don't disagree with you about the scarcity of Excel plots in those journals, but those journals aren't at all in my field. Look at the journals for the applied sciences and engineering. No, I'm not talking about the "trade journals" either, but rather the ones with real scientific content. For me, that includes The Journal of Composite Materials, Composites: Part A, AIAAJ, and other such journals. They definitely don't look as pretty as Nature, Science, what-have-you. But that doesn't make they lousy.
There's a definite divide between the hard sciences, the medical sciences, and the applied sciences.
...Even on Windoze...does not play nice is M$ Office...
At any rate, I think that anyone who uses the default formatting for anything shows that they really don't care about what they're showing anyway. So once you "tweak" Excel's default chart formatting to get a reasonable looking default (and, yes, I agree that it's a pain in the ass to do this tweaking), then you're set. Anyone who used the defaults for any of the other packages shows the same disregard for the presentation (although the result plots probably aren't as awful as Excel's default).
OK, I don't want to be in the position of defending Excel but...
For example, Gnumeric is the only one that just works with copied/pasted plain text tables. It is fast and accurate.
Copy/pasting plain text tables works quite fine in Excel. I just fired up OO.o and much to my surprise, it doesn't handle space or comma separated plain text, but tab separated plain text works great.
As for fast and accurate... huh? Any particular inaccuracies you'd like to point out?
because it is VERY hard to take an Excel chart into another program to IMPROVE it.
Absolutely. OTOH, it's pretty hard to take ANY chart into another program to improve it. Of course, I want my charting program to do it all for me so that I don't have to improve it somewhere else. I always thought SigmaPlot or Origin were good ideas, but frankly they're priced too high to bring it into our small business environment with any sort of saturation. Really. At $600+ per seat, on top of all the other licenses we have (geometry modellers, FE meshers, FE analysis codes, ad nauseum) the $300 one-shot cost for MS Office SMB is a no-brainer.
But you can't make publication quality plots in ANY of them. So, we don't bother. The free/open source advocates use Grace. The others tend to use Origin.
I call bullshit. I've got my PhD. I've got publications. I read through lots of papers, I see lots of theses. Guess what? I'd say that an overwhelming majority of tem use Excel. Excel charts have a distinct look to them. And while it's distinct, there's nothing inherent about it that makes it not "publication quality". Just like Gnuplot plots and LaTeX documents have distinct looks. If you can make a reasonably clean chart that effectively communicates your data and doesn't look like complete shit, then it's publication quality.
When people find stuff better than Excel VBA (Python kicks butt!), they tend to stop using it for new sheets.
Yes, Python's great. We use it when it's appropriate, and that's pretty often. But as a replacement for VBA? Really? I assume that you don't mean as a means of scripting Excel (if you do, please provide a link!). I've looked at plotting libraries for Python, including the gnuplot interface, as well as wxPlot, but frankly, they don't quite match up to what we want to do. And frankly, I'm the more tech savvy engineer in our office. There's no way the "ordinary" engineers would do any Python scripting to do what we use VBA/Excel to do (which is essentially RAD of data reduction techniques -- once we've worked it out in Excel, we usually write custom apps... but still dump files to Excel/VBA for automated plotting).
Why not pick and choose good tools from all available options? You don't have to use an app just because it is part of a suite that has other programs you like.
The sad answer is because it's not practical or cost effective. In my field, everyone knows Excel. The newbie just-out-of-school engineers through to the greybeards. Not everyone knows Gnumeric or Gnuplot, and it's not worth it to them to learn. So, we use Excel. And OO.o "Calc" does not replace Excel (which was the point of the whole thing).
Well, it really depends on what you're doing, doesn't it? If you're working with a couple dozen measurements (or even a few hundred) in a nice domain like time or temperature, it takes you a trivial amount of time to do this in Excel.
Anyone trying perform data analysis on anything more than a few thousand data points in *any* spreadsheet deserves what they get. It's all about using the right tool for the job.
As much as anyone cringes, Excel is the best tool for accumulating, plotting, and exporting (to Word, e.g.) data and charts. Yes there are better tools, but they are not as easy to use and they are not as well integrated with the other tools of the trade. So, having said that, Calc in no way measures up to Excel.
For one, charting (especially X-Y scatter plots) is very, very painful to use and doesn't have all the features that are required.
Then there's the VBA macro issue, which judging by some of the comments may or may not be an issue.
Writer doesn't seem too limiting, and I haven't really used Impress too much, but without the functionality of Excel, it's a non-starter.
Hmmmn... it would also be nice to have MSN without the shitty ads at the bottom of the buddylist, but I guess that's reachin'.
Check out the "Mess Patch" from www.mess.be. That and MSN Plus (er, now Messenger Plus! Live... google it) are the best things to happen to MSN Messenger. The mess patch will remove the ads, and MSN plus will add a whole bunch of thoroughly useful features (custom away statuses, auto-responses, etc)
I've been using a kneeling chair since 2001. What forced me to switch over was a slipped disk that became sciatica -- basically a pinched nerve that incapacitated me for 6 weeks. At any rate, after I recovered enough to go back to the office, I got kneeling chairs for the office and for my computer desk at home. Right now, I'm writing this while sitting in a kneeling chair. Some observations:
They do work. My posture is much better. I had a relapse a year later, but since then, it's been smooth sailing.
They take some getting used to. I have reasonably "bad" knees, but the kneeling chair doesn't really put pressure on your knees if it's adjusted properly. The pressure is on your shins instead. However, it's likely that for the first few days or weeks, you'll find your legs cramping up a bit. The key is to stick to it and get your muscles to learn to like the new position.
Make sure it is adjustable. At least in height, but ideally in the angle that your legs form. One size does not fit all. Try it out at the store first, but ideally at your desk so that you can see if everything fits... or not.
Well, ok. But you could avoid all that by running your host OS from a custom "Live CD".
1) Configure your "Live CD" with all the bits and pieces needed to run VMPlayer and Truecrypt, including the necessary config entries to support your encrypted removable USB2/Firewire HDD (where you'll be running Windows) or the less-secure-but-faster in-the-box encrypted 2nd hard drive. You might need to configure a RAM disk so that the VM can "write" swap and other goodies to a writable area. 2) Burn, baby, burn. 3) Boot from your live CD. 4) Mount your encrypted volume. 5) Flash up your VM with Windows. 6) Do super-secret-stuff. 7) When you turn off the machine, no unencrypted trace of the super-secret-stuff remains. None. In fact, you can replace the boot drive with that copy of WinME laying around, and thereby complete discourage DHS or whomever from even trying to look any further. Mind you, I suppose anyone with WinME on a system should be jailed anyway.
Regardless, my point has been that the technology exists. It's not the technology causing the problems, it's stupid (or, maybe only ignorant) people.
Dude: Coffee. Or something. That much stress isn't good for you. You use Truecrypt on your laptop? OOooooh. I bow down to your obvious omniscience.
Hardware encryption? Hah! Ask the Xbox devs how well that worked for them. Given access to the hardware, it will be broken. But.... you'll have designed it. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sure that will solve all the hardware encryption problems.
But mocking aside, check this out: Can I relocate the Windows temp directory somewhere else? Yes. Can I change the location of the Windows swap file? Yes, but that one is problematic, since booting without access to the swap file is difficult.
But if you're really that paranoid, here's a solution for you:
Virtualization
Run your favourite flavor of Linux and install VMPlayer. Still with me? Now create a large encrypted volume. How about a large hidden encrypted volume. On that encrypted volume, create a large VMDK and a Windows VM. Do all your super-secret stuff in the VM. Which resides entirely and completely on an encrypted volume. Tempfiles, swap files, everything are encrypted. If you're are *really* paranoid you could install Truecrypt on the Windows VM.
See? If you think it through a little bit, you'll recognize that there *are* technological solutions for all levels of paranoia. But all the technological solutions are moot when the (l)users don't adhere to the security policies. Or when no clear security policies exist.
Nonsense. I use Truecrypt, and have encrypted a whole drive. *Nothing* on it is unencrypted. It has no partition table. Any sort of analysis of it would show that it is complete indistinguishible from random noise. Taken out of the workstation that it currently resides in, it would be completely and utterly secure. And, unintelligible. Granted, it's not the boot drive, but so what?
I also wonder about "...and realize that there is an encrypted partion...". Again, so what? Unless you've chosen an insecure passphrase, or give up the passphrase through some manner of coersion with the strong encryption algorithms, it doesn't matter if someone realizes there might be more to the noise or not. And, if you're really worried about it, Truecrypt allows you to create truely hidden encrypted areas.
I suggest reading the fine manual that comes with Truecrypt and studying the bit about plausible deniability. And the bit about encrypting whole devices. *Then* come back and bring a informed opinion.
The fact of the matter is that the technical problems have been mostly addressed. The problem is that the wetware doesn't follow reasonable data security policies.
Clearly the problem is ignorance. And bad habits. And bad security policies.
It's not a technological problem -- everyone in Windows & Linux land should be using Truecrypt or something similar and being smart about how they handle data. Rather it's a social problem.
What's the reasoning behind quoting before-tax prices?
You know, it's been some 15 years with the GST and I remember a debate at the time about incorporating it into the displayed prices... and it seemed at the time that retailers didn't want to feel the wrath of the consuming public that prices suddenly jumped 7%. I think it's also a little anti-government: here's what we're selling it for... and here's what the government gouges out of you. Regardless, it's been this way for so long that no one really cares any more. It really hurts on big ticket items: cars, houses, etc.
Off topic, but in Canada, that's (mostly) not true. Advertized prices are almost always without the Provincial Sale Tax (PST) and the Goods and Services Tax (GST). The rate varies from province to province (and in the East, they've combined it into a Harmonized Sales Tax (HST)) but it runs about 14%. Of course, there's no PST in Alberta and the GST is dropping a point sometime later this summer. Regardless, just like the US, everything except gas tends to be the "before-tax" price.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah, that doesn't work either. It calls up the Dr. Horrible page where you can 'download all episodes' for 'free' but when you select that, it fails with an unspecified error. It does (helpfully) give you the option of downloading it for $1.99.
Um, I don't think so. Everyone in the states gets it for free and fuck the rest of the world? I don't think so.
Fail.
Actually, the videotapes (at least the commercial ones) have MacroVision 'protection'. Circumventing that would presumably be illegal too.
Funny. I'm porting a python app (well, ok a python module) to Fortran currently. We do all our front-end work with Python, backend (that is, number crunching not database) with Fortran.
These sort of grammar questions can often be decided by breaking down the phrase as a response to a question...
"illegally downloading music": What are you doing? "Downloading music". How? "Illegally". [1]
and
"illegal downloading of music": What was done? "Illegal downloading". Of what? "Of music".[2]
Both of those are correct, if somewhat different in nuance.
"illegally downloading of music" is clearly quite wrong. What are you doing? "Downloading of music". Oops, that doesn't work. What was done? "Illegally downloading". Bah, that doesn't work either. Shoot the copy-editor.[3]
M>
[1] Well, not right now I'm not
[2] I'm certainly not claiming that the downloading was illegal either. I live in Canada. We're allowed to download music.
[3] No, don't do that, I'm not condoning violence. Laugh, it's funny.
Funny, this page: http://www.puretracks.com/catalog/details.aspx?pid =indy_624284002354_mp3&mod=1 lists 7 albums available as MP3, with one only available as MP3.
Wrong. Click the "MP3" link (4th item on the menu bar at the top of the page). Although I suppose I have to take into consideration that you may not be aware that MP3s contain no DRM.
Or, if that's too much work, click here: http://www.puretracks.com/content/viewer.aspx?cid
Didn't try too hard did you? From the main page, click "MP3". Next, click a BNL album, like this one: http://www.puretracks.com/catalog/details.aspx?pid =indy_624284002354_mp3
Two clicks is too much to expect from the average Slashdot bandwagoner, I guess.
No, you misunderstood. This is just copy/pasting directly from the clipboard to a sheet.
Thanks for the link. Interesting, but not relevant for me. Do people really try to do statistical analyses with Excel?
Ah yes, name calling. Care to discuss where the majority of "real work" is reflected? Science, Nature, etc? Or some of the "low-end" journals you refer to? Or (ick) conference proceedings? --Whatever-- It's rather useless to discuss this without discussing a particular field anyway. For the health sciences, the "hard" sciences, and for the applied sciences / engineering the standards, major journals, and locations of "important" work are totally different.
Well, I won't speak for "scientists", but for engineers we will have to disagree. I have rarely in 15 years of engineering consulting in the aerospace industry seen anyone use anything other than Excel for plots in reports. Well, other than a minority of the more academic folks at some of the defense agencies: DARPA, USAF, NASA, etc.
Huh? I never said we discouraged deployment. We do not deploy OO.o, but on the other hand, it's available to anyone who wants to use it. And yes, my whole point is that Excel is better than Calc for the tasks that we regularly perform. I don't know why that's such a repugnant idea for you. And, while you're dictating to me what's cost-effective for me, consider this: We can get an Office 2003 SME license (Small Business Edition, including Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook, Publisher, and some other useless cruft) for $275 (CAN$), while buying Excel 2003 on its own is $280 (CAN$). So, how does it make sense for us to adopt a complete different office suite (I suppose it's OO.o you're advocating), train people on it, deal with the incompatibilities in file types as we exchange data back and forth with our customers, and separately license Excel to get crappy plots? And you're calling me silly?
Oh, I don't disagree with you about the scarcity of Excel plots in those journals, but those journals aren't at all in my field. Look at the journals for the applied sciences and engineering. No, I'm not talking about the "trade journals" either, but rather the ones with real scientific content. For me, that includes The Journal of Composite Materials, Composites: Part A, AIAAJ, and other such journals. They definitely don't look as pretty as Nature, Science, what-have-you. But that doesn't make they lousy.
There's a definite divide between the hard sciences, the medical sciences, and the applied sciences.
At any rate, I think that anyone who uses the default formatting for anything shows that they really don't care about what they're showing anyway. So once you "tweak" Excel's default chart formatting to get a reasonable looking default (and, yes, I agree that it's a pain in the ass to do this tweaking), then you're set. Anyone who used the defaults for any of the other packages shows the same disregard for the presentation (although the result plots probably aren't as awful as Excel's default).
Copy/pasting plain text tables works quite fine in Excel. I just fired up OO.o and much to my surprise, it doesn't handle space or comma separated plain text, but tab separated plain text works great.
As for fast and accurate
Absolutely. OTOH, it's pretty hard to take ANY chart into another program to improve it. Of course, I want my charting program to do it all for me so that I don't have to improve it somewhere else. I always thought SigmaPlot or Origin were good ideas, but frankly they're priced too high to bring it into our small business environment with any sort of saturation. Really. At $600+ per seat, on top of all the other licenses we have (geometry modellers, FE meshers, FE analysis codes, ad nauseum) the $300 one-shot cost for MS Office SMB is a no-brainer.
I call bullshit. I've got my PhD. I've got publications. I read through lots of papers, I see lots of theses. Guess what? I'd say that an overwhelming majority of tem use Excel. Excel charts have a distinct look to them. And while it's distinct, there's nothing inherent about it that makes it not "publication quality". Just like Gnuplot plots and LaTeX documents have distinct looks. If you can make a reasonably clean chart that effectively communicates your data and doesn't look like complete shit, then it's publication quality.
Yes, Python's great. We use it when it's appropriate, and that's pretty often. But as a replacement for VBA? Really? I assume that you don't mean as a means of scripting Excel (if you do, please provide a link!). I've looked at plotting libraries for Python, including the gnuplot interface, as well as wxPlot, but frankly, they don't quite match up to what we want to do. And frankly, I'm the more tech savvy engineer in our office. There's no way the "ordinary" engineers would do any Python scripting to do what we use VBA/Excel to do (which is essentially RAD of data reduction techniques -- once we've worked it out in Excel, we usually write custom apps
The sad answer is because it's not practical or cost effective. In my field, everyone knows Excel. The newbie just-out-of-school engineers through to the greybeards. Not everyone knows Gnumeric or Gnuplot, and it's not worth it to them to learn. So, we use Excel. And OO.o "Calc" does not replace Excel (which was the point of the whole thing).
Well, it really depends on what you're doing, doesn't it? If you're working with a couple dozen measurements (or even a few hundred) in a nice domain like time or temperature, it takes you a trivial amount of time to do this in Excel.
Anyone trying perform data analysis on anything more than a few thousand data points in *any* spreadsheet deserves what they get. It's all about using the right tool for the job.
As much as anyone cringes, Excel is the best tool for accumulating, plotting, and exporting (to Word, e.g.) data and charts. Yes there are better tools, but they are not as easy to use and they are not as well integrated with the other tools of the trade. So, having said that, Calc in no way measures up to Excel.
For one, charting (especially X-Y scatter plots) is very, very painful to use and doesn't have all the features that are required.
Then there's the VBA macro issue, which judging by some of the comments may or may not be an issue.
Writer doesn't seem too limiting, and I haven't really used Impress too much, but without the functionality of Excel, it's a non-starter.
Check out the "Mess Patch" from www.mess.be. That and MSN Plus (er, now Messenger Plus! Live
A>
A>
Well, ok. But you could avoid all that by running your host OS from a custom "Live CD".
1) Configure your "Live CD" with all the bits and pieces needed to run VMPlayer and Truecrypt, including the necessary config entries to support your encrypted removable USB2/Firewire HDD (where you'll be running Windows) or the less-secure-but-faster in-the-box encrypted 2nd hard drive. You might need to configure a RAM disk so that the VM can "write" swap and other goodies to a writable area.
2) Burn, baby, burn.
3) Boot from your live CD.
4) Mount your encrypted volume.
5) Flash up your VM with Windows.
6) Do super-secret-stuff.
7) When you turn off the machine, no unencrypted trace of the super-secret-stuff remains. None. In fact, you can replace the boot drive with that copy of WinME laying around, and thereby complete discourage DHS or whomever from even trying to look any further. Mind you, I suppose anyone with WinME on a system should be jailed anyway.
Regardless, my point has been that the technology exists. It's not the technology causing the problems, it's stupid (or, maybe only ignorant) people.
OK fair enough, I'll take that one back.
Dude: Coffee. Or something. That much stress isn't good for you. You use Truecrypt on your laptop? OOooooh. I bow down to your obvious omniscience.
.... you'll have designed it. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sure that will solve all the hardware encryption problems.
Hardware encryption? Hah! Ask the Xbox devs how well that worked for them. Given access to the hardware, it will be broken. But
But mocking aside, check this out: Can I relocate the Windows temp directory somewhere else? Yes. Can I change the location of the Windows swap file? Yes, but that one is problematic, since booting without access to the swap file is difficult.
But if you're really that paranoid, here's a solution for you:
Virtualization
Run your favourite flavor of Linux and install VMPlayer. Still with me? Now create a large encrypted volume. How about a large hidden encrypted volume. On that encrypted volume, create a large VMDK and a Windows VM. Do all your super-secret stuff in the VM. Which resides entirely and completely on an encrypted volume. Tempfiles, swap files, everything are encrypted. If you're are *really* paranoid you could install Truecrypt on the Windows VM.
See? If you think it through a little bit, you'll recognize that there *are* technological solutions for all levels of paranoia. But all the technological solutions are moot when the (l)users don't adhere to the security policies. Or when no clear security policies exist.
Nonsense. I use Truecrypt, and have encrypted a whole drive. *Nothing* on it is unencrypted. It has no partition table. Any sort of analysis of it would show that it is complete indistinguishible from random noise. Taken out of the workstation that it currently resides in, it would be completely and utterly secure. And, unintelligible. Granted, it's not the boot drive, but so what?
I also wonder about "...and realize that there is an encrypted partion...". Again, so what? Unless you've chosen an insecure passphrase, or give up the passphrase through some manner of coersion with the strong encryption algorithms, it doesn't matter if someone realizes there might be more to the noise or not. And, if you're really worried about it, Truecrypt allows you to create truely hidden encrypted areas.
I suggest reading the fine manual that comes with Truecrypt and studying the bit about plausible deniability. And the bit about encrypting whole devices. *Then* come back and bring a informed opinion.
The fact of the matter is that the technical problems have been mostly addressed. The problem is that the wetware doesn't follow reasonable data security policies.
It's not a technological problem -- everyone in Windows & Linux land should be using Truecrypt or something similar and being smart about how they handle data. Rather it's a social problem.
What's the reasoning behind quoting before-tax prices?
... and it seemed at the time that retailers didn't want to feel the wrath of the consuming public that prices suddenly jumped 7%. I think it's also a little anti-government: here's what we're selling it for ... and here's what the government gouges out of you. Regardless, it's been this way for so long that no one really cares any more. It really hurts on big ticket items: cars, houses, etc.
You know, it's been some 15 years with the GST and I remember a debate at the time about incorporating it into the displayed prices
Off topic, but in Canada, that's (mostly) not true. Advertized prices are almost always without the Provincial Sale Tax (PST) and the Goods and Services Tax (GST). The rate varies from province to province (and in the East, they've combined it into a Harmonized Sales Tax (HST)) but it runs about 14%. Of course, there's no PST in Alberta and the GST is dropping a point sometime later this summer. Regardless, just like the US, everything except gas tends to be the "before-tax" price.
They're announcing a Linux distribution that won't be available for download in BETA for another 4 months?
Canadians.
(How do you get Canadians out of a swimming pool? Ask them to leave!)