Four were killed and nine wounded at Kent State....
So what that it was 'only four'. If you were one of the dead, you wouldn't care about the numbers. The issue is the quality not the quantity. An the quality was worse than Tianamen. At least one of those that died in Kent State was just on the way to lectures. As for it 'not being ordered'. That is pretty irrelevant as the issue was never investigated at all. As far as I am concerned it was 'ordered after the event'.
The strength of the caste system in the United States is far, far greater than it is in may other places around the world. If you don't believe this, go check.
Your problem would appear to be that you live in the United States, and as such, you can't see it from outside and unfortunately for you, you have been educated to a 'religious' point of view about US 'superiority', 'desirability', and 'freedom'.
I don't want to be a Yank, I prefer to be an Aussie, but even your allies are not allowed their own laws and now we are not even allowed our superior health system as it is not 'competative' enough and the US can't make as much money as it wants from our sick and ill.
Health care is no human right. It's a product that requires material resources, knowledge & training, and labor like anything other product, and should have to be paid for as such.
But there is no reason why health care for children (at least) should not be paid collectively (ie. by the state, financed from taxes). A child should not be held responsible for picking broke or malfeasant parents.
Isn't ensuring that children are not disadvantaged any more than is possible one of the reasons for the very existence of government? Decreeing what minimum standards of care should be?
Given that the government determines those minimum standards of care, it make for good sense (and efficiency) that the government provide that minimum sandard of care and distribute the cost equally across society. After all we are talking about the next generation. The same could probably be said for education.
They can have their economic development and safety nets.
Then why is the US trying to use the WTO and FTAs to eliminate Australian's safety nets? It is being demanded that we give up state subsidised prescription medicines because the state has monopoly buying (and therefore barganing) power. Our saftey nets are being taken away and challenged because it is not quite so easy to gouge the public here. Our social contract, our social capitalism and our safety nets are 'unfair competition'. Similarly our quarantines are being forcibly lifted. Having a clean and disease free country is also 'unfair competition'.
So you can have your safty net only if somebody in the US cannot make a buck out of it being non-existent. Truth.
Just not at the expense of economic development in America.
America gained a lot of its economic development during and over some extremely favourable trade circumstances. In other words, a good deal of that development was at the expense of the development of others (and still is!). Turnaround is fair play. Having exploited the world for half a century, you seem to feel that that is the 'natural and proper' state of things. It isn't.
I'm all for India and China developing their own industries and serving themselves.
But then you will complain you don't have markets. And start a war to eliminate the industries? No? It would be consistent with past performance. Google is your friend.
China is STILL a communist nation and when people stand up they get stepped on (do you remember Tiananmen Square or were you too young).
So, exactly how is that different from Kent State, almost exactly 34 years ago? So who is too young?
http://www.spectacle.org/595/kent.html
India, though a democracy, still has the legacy of a caste system that makes the majority of people inferiors to a group of the upper crust.
And there is no caste or class system in the US, right? All societies have had classes and castes. All that varies is the degree and difficulty of class mobility.
The only people that could REALLY fight for these people are other governments using the WTO treaty... and as we saw last week the Bush administration absolutely refuses to do this.
I have a full SCSI box in a cheap case that is now situated where I sleep. Awful. Easily fixed. I replace on 80cm noisy fan with 2 90cm roller bearing quite ones, took out all screws and placed a vibration absorbent washer between metal surfaces, and finally lined the inside of the case with carpet underlay. Total cost about $10US. Now my kids think it is permanently turned off rather than permanently turned on.
Trailwalker writes "An article at BigBlueBall.com states that 75% of web connections do not use a browser. IM and P2P applications are used instead." While surprising, this is probably more indicative of how instant messaging has been able to complement and/or replace email in recent times.
Umm... What happened here? For most, if not all, of Internet history less than 75% of web connections have used a browser. I don't use either P2P or IM but of connections initiated from this site, there would still be far less than 15% that are http or https let alone a browser. Now that does not count DNS as a "connection" but does include FTP, Telnet, CVS, SMTP and quite a few others.
I'll be dammed if I can see the remark as "indicative" of anything except ignorance on behalf of the its maker.
How this got posted as an article I do not understand.
Although I don't actually use Linux in this particular case. I have some severe reservations about Linux ablbeit far, far less than I have about Microsoft OSes. I'm a BSD geek. I should have mentioned that. I've had no troubles with any BSD but I never actually loaded Linux or an MS/OS on the SMP box.
Bah, that's too imprecise. Besides, you can do the same thing with a Trackball explorer but you can also use the wheel.
Methinks the imprecision is in the user not the device. I have never seen anything else that come close to a Logitech Trackman Marble FX in regard to precision.
Right, I was talking about Creative sound cards. When I bought my dual computer it was known that Creative drivers didn't work with SMP. I'm not completely sure about now.
Hmm... I've been running a dual processor since the 350 MHz PII was released. Still using in preference to faster machines (that I have passed on to my children) because of the far greater responsivnss of a dual processor. It has never had anything but Creative soundcards and it has survived Number 9/Matrox and nvidia graphics cards with no driver problems whatsoever.
But then it has never run Windows or Linux either....
I don't know the Kingston but I do know the MS Explorer series. After reading your post I get the impression that you have not even seen the trackball I was talking about (Logitech Trackman Marble FX). It is the size of a billiard ball and so smooth and sensitive that I can move from one corner of the screen to another with just one (any) finger. Your hand shrouds the ball which as over 50% of its surface exposed. The Explorer is not in the same league. Nor is anything else I have ever seen.
Logitech Internet Keyboard.
Scroll Rocker Switch (which you asked for) plus browser start, history, open url, home, send to back, print, back, forward, stop, refresh, search, find, add bookmark, open bookmarks and "hot links". All work in X (Mozilla, Konqueror, kmail etc..) except for "hot links" (I don't use windows at all so I don't know what that is supposed to do)
However I rarely use those buttons as the Logitech Trackman Marble FX is so easy to use and in addition provides scrolling both vertically and horizantally.
Left button, middle button and right button AND if I tilt my thumb slightly it hits the fourth button and the 2" (approx) ball becomes a scroll SPHERE. It scrolls both vertically and horizantally. I have had the device for a number of years, it has never needed cleaning and about the only improvement that I could think off would be batteryless IR (which I don't think exists yet).
Every person who has sat at my desk and used it has gone out and bought one. There is simply nothing better in the marketplace that I or anyone I know has ever seen.
It makes any other kind of pointing device look sick.
And in a corporate environment, who is responsible? -- Since I don't believe you can charge a corporation with a criminal offense, this becomes even more important since you could potentially be responsible for thousands of PCs.
Microsoft was charged and convicted of a criminal offense.
That may be semantically correct but I'm British and I've NEVER heard anyone use a billion to mean 1 million million. And I'm talking newspapers, governments and schools here.
That is because you are too young. The American figure has been used for a long time, but when I was a kid, schools and papers still used the American billion was still quoted as thousands of millions.
"Fanny" means buttocks in American English and it is a very benign word. I assumed you would know that because your spelling is American, not Commonwealth. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I would never use such an objectionable word.
I do know. My spelling is usually "Commonwealth" (which varies from country to country), but you still missed the point. You made American assumptions in front of an international audience. You are at least, consistent.
Don't bring up Afghanistan as a straw man to draw attentiona way from the Marshall Plan.
Again you betray yourself. People dying in Afghanistan but that's a "straw man" compared to the Marshal Plan. Again consistent. Be Ashamed. And for the coup de grace, the Marshall Plan was not for the benefit of anyone but America. If it was morally based it would not have been selective, now would it? I repeat the point that you keep ignoring - if you pick your charities for your own benefit then you are entitled to only moral opprobrium because you claim moral credit for something that you do for your own benefit.
Regarding Afghanistan and the Marshall Plan - America is still in Afghanistan. I'm sorry our performance there is not satisfactory to you, but do you seriously think the Afghans are worse off than they were under the Taliban?
Can you claim that they are better off after you have illegally invaded, trashed any remaining infrastructure, violated their soverignty and killed large numbers of "wogs"? When are you going to hang your war criminals? Sorry, I know, you don't have any because whatever an American does is legal...
I ask you again. If you want me to believe you, you should answer: What American interest was served in East Timor, Somalia, or Kosovo?
This is a sore point. We'll use just one, East Timor. Your CIA turned the Australian government over on that one. You initiated a regime change over it in 1975. How am I supposed to discuss anything about East Timor with you when you don't have a clue about the history and what your country was up too?
Or are you incensed because I continue to argue? Has no one dared stand up to your irresponsible assertions before? I think your "ignorant American" stereotype has run into a counter-example and it enfuriates you.
On the contrary. I am hoping against hope, (and about to give up) that you may be reachable. But it isn't so. You will accept no responsibility or "fault" for America. "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". You "believe" in your country, as do many Americans. Anyone who "believes" in their country is a fool. People you can beleive in (or not). Countries are not that sort of animal. Truthfully, you seem to be the epitome of the ignorant and arrogant American
I didn't call you a Marxist to insult you, but to describe your seemingly intractable attitude.
Ah... So if I was a marxist, I would be "intractable" would I? Maybe you should note how you classify and sort. It is a bad replacement for thinking. Maybe you should note that you are answering me, not the otherway around. Who is the "intractable" one? "There are none so blind..."
It seems to me that you harbor lots of anger at America.
Betrayal of ideals has that effect...
You didn't appreciate my reasoned arguments so you called them propaganda.
They were reasoned from assuming that illusion is truth. That is not "reason" and I don't have to indulge in it. Your view of the world is factually in error. I can't help that.
You should address the points I bring up instead of calling names.I don't call names and I don't argue "ad hominem". In this case the attitude of America and Americans (of which you appear to be one) is part of what is being discussed. Besides you can hardly berate me. You called me a Marxist among other things. I think there is a fair list of adjectives you have used too. And this is the point "What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander". But not for you. Being American you are entitled to far more than anybody else. Instant respect. Instant assumption of good intentions. Instant assumption of honesty. Sorry, I don't play that game. Due to the facts of isolation and groupithink most Americans are far more ignorant of the world than those in other first world countries. Do you think we can't see what is "missing" from your news"? "Transcripts" with the important bits missing. You are not even getting the information on which you could make an independant and accurate jugement. Fact not insult. But you will take it as the latter.
We are not particularly interested in so-called "international law" because there is no true international rule of law.
...and you will make sure that there never will be unless it is the unilateral might of America. America "is impotent, corrupt, and worthless. We will not corrupt ourselves by kowtowing to it."(quoteing yourself) despite what our poiticians do.
We are coming to this discussion from such different arguments that I doubt we can have a productive discussion.
Prably not. You appear in denial. Nevertheless - for your sake and America's sake I will try.
You seem to favor internationlism, even impotent internationalism.
I favour the rule of law. International law will have to be international. Law notNations.
You seem to come from a Marxist worldview,
You can't deal with it so label it with an insult and dismiss it? No, I'm not a Marxist, I'm not a communist. Most people call me right-wing.
re coming to this discussion from such different arguments that I doubt we can have a productive discussion.
Prably not. You appear in denial. Nevertheless - for your sake and America's sake I will try.
You seem to favor internationlism, even impotent internationalism.
I favour the rule of law. International law will have to be international. Law notNations.
You seem to come from a Marxist worldview,
You can't deal with it so label it with an insult and dismiss it? No, I'm not a Marxist, I'm not a communist. Most people call me right-wing.
and you think that America has never done anything good or even benign.Really? read my posts again instead of propogandising about them?Jefferson may have been the most important human being ever. Pity you don't subsc
ribe to his points of vies (and call him 'Marxist')...
Regarding the American ideal: I'm puzzled that you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the American ideal. Have
you not studied here? Don't you know us? Your English is so good it seems you must have. If you knew us, you'd realize that Americans are not primarily motivated by currency markets and covering our dollar-costs. That is a Soviet-
fed Marxist fantasy. We do have some Americans that share your view in America, but they are primarily self-loathing Marxist-Stalinists like the A.N.S.W.E.R. folks.
I don't misunderstand it. You misunderstand the American
culture. I have not studies in America. Both my English and my education would be worse if I had - you'll take that as an insult and "it could not possibly be right" - but it is just a statement of fact. I speak English, not A
merican. I think that I understand both America and its viewpoint well enough. Probably better than most American as I can see it from outside.
Regarding America's economic motivations: Your assertion that America came out even or ahead economically from the Second World War is untenable.Good, because I never made that assertion. You appear to be trying to convin
ce people I did. Have you surrendered argument for propoganda? If you are not going to be honest there isn't much point in continuing is there? If the Marshall plan was a moral decision it should have applied universally, not s
electively. And where is Afghanistans Marshall plan? in Afghanistan, America has behaved like the scum of the Earth.
Regarding my assertion that you are anti-American: Your arguments give lie to your assertion that you are not anti-American.
Crap. I don't have to support everything America does and I don't. Yeah, yeah, I know, because
I won't like your (America's) arse and say "your're perfect even when you are raping me", yeah that makes me "Anti-America" right.... To you I say "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". Stop the propoganda. Wake up
and smell the roses. Find out some unbiased truth.
You have to be anti-American to say that America has never shown benign intentions, good will, or correct foreign policy.I have to be because you say so... Right, that's the point friend. Neither you nor your country has the right to say or assume that. It is simply not true however much you wish to believe it.
What American interest was served in East Timor, Somalia, or Kosovo?
How can anyone not in denial or impossibly ignorant ask that question. Learn Read. Stop being an ignorant American peasant.
For that matter, what American interest was served pulling your fannies out of the fire twice in the last century? A majority of Americans opposed war until Japan pulled us into that war, you know.Errmm... Whose fanny? I d
on't even have a vagina to pull from the fire, I'm a mail. (Please try not to miss that one!).
Regarding the League of Nations: It failed because it was a tool of British Empire, not a legitimate internation
al body. Nobody was very excited about it. The only way it could have survived would have been with America's leadership. America withdrew because the LoN was poorly executed and tried to limit American sovreignty. Now the UN is g
oing the same direction.The important words there are "limit American sovreignty". That is why America "destroyed" the LoN and why it will destroy the UN. America is interested in only its own sovreignty - and that is the is
sue.
and you think that America has never done anything good or even benign.Really? read my posts again instead of propogandising about them?Jefferson may have been the most important human being ever. Pity you don't subscribe to his points of vies (and call him 'Marxist')...
Regarding the American ideal: I'm puzzled that you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the American ideal. Have you not studied here? Don't you know us? Your English is so good it seems you must have. If you knew us, you'd realize that Americans are not primarily motivated by currency markets and covering our dollar-costs. That is a Soviet-fed Marxist fantasy. We do have some Americans that share your view in America, but they are primarily self-loathing Marxist-Stalinists like the A.N.S.W.E.R. folks.
I don't misunderstand it. You misunderstand the American culture. I have not studies in America. Both my English and my education would be worse if I had - you'll take that as an insult and "it could not possibly be right" - but it is just a statement of fact. I speak English, not American. I think that I understand both America and its viewpoint well enough. Probably better than most American as I can see it from outside.
Regarding America's economic motivations: Your assertion that America came out even or ahead economically from the Second World War is untenable.Good, because I never made that assertion. You appear to be trying to convince people I did. Have you surrendered argument for propoganda? If you are not going to be honest there isn't much point in continuing is there? If the Marshall plan was a moral decision it should have applied universally, not selectively. And where is Afghanistans Marshall plan? in Afghanistan, America has behaved like the scum of the Earth.
Regarding my assertion that you are anti-American: Your arguments give lie to your assertion that you are not anti-American.
Crap. I don't have to support everything America does and I don't. Yeah, yeah, I know, because I won't like your (America's) arse and say "your're perfect even when you are raping me", yeah that makes me "Anti-America" right.... To you I say "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". Stop the propoganda. Wake up and smell the roses. Find out some unbiased truth.
You have to be anti-American to say that America has never shown benign intentions, good will, or correct foreign policy.I have to be because you say so... Right, that's the point friend. Neither you nor your country has the right to say or assume that. It is simply not true however much you wish to believe it.
What American interest was served in East Timor, Somalia, or Kosovo?
How can anyone not in denial or impossibly ignorant ask that question. Learn Read. Stop being an ignorant American peasant.
For that matter, what American interest was served pulling your fannies out of the fire twice in the last century? A majority of Americans opposed war until Japan pulled us into that war, you know.Errmm... Whose fanny? I don't even have a vagina to pull from the fire, I'm a mail. (Please try not to miss that one!).
Regarding the League of Nations: It failed because it was a tool of British Empire, not a legitimate international body. Nobody was very excited about it. The only way it could have survived would have been with America's leadership. America withdrew because the LoN was poorly executed and tried to limit American sovreignty. Now the UN is going the same direction.The important words there are "limit American sovreignty". That is why America "destroyed" the LoN and why it will destroy the UN. America is interested in only its own sovreignty - and that is the issue.
Regarding internationalism and war-crimes trials: You propose that war criminals, Iraqis and Americans, should face international courts. How do you propose to try them without invading? Also, as an American I am not going to take my chances with someone like you as judge. You've already condemned me just for being an American. We reserve the right to try our own criminals.
'Someone like me' eh? I've not condemmed anyone. It seems more like you have condemmed me for not being an arse-licker. You have been the one to turn this into am 'ad hominem' argument, not me. Note that it is considerd a loosing strategy.
Regarding Australia: My wife grew up there, so I know a little. Let me know when they complain.
Australians have been complaining for a long time. Long enough that America manipulated a regime change in Australia in 1975. You're not listening.
Regarding human rights: There is no reason that any American should go hungry.
Dead right
We have aid to families with dependent children (food stamps), shelters, and enormous domestic food-aid programs. Those that endure hunger have only their parents or themselves to blame because they fail to apply for government aid or they spend their aid money on alchohol. We try hard to make sure everyone has enough to eat. We advertise our welfare programs on TV. Don't give me that 13% of Americans go hungry crap. That is total propaganda. It is true that we have a huge homelessness problem, but it is very complex and has nothing to do with human rights.It has everything to do with human rights.
Regarding so-called unilateralism: Thirty seven countries are currently backing the U.S. in our war effort. Is there a word for that? Thirtysevellateralism?Thiry-seven 'bought' nations against how many others?
Regarding Guantanamo: Detainees have Korans, good food, shelter, and are treated humanely. No American could wish for so much in any Muslim country. Do they have a right to trial? No! They are enemy combatants!i
Because you, unilaterally say so. You are behaving outside international law and outside of your constitution by chicanery. If you cnsider that situation just or proper, well... I can't see how that differs from insanity. You invaded them for chrissakes.
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So what that it was 'only four'. If you were one of the dead, you wouldn't care about the numbers. The issue is the quality not the quantity. An the quality was worse than Tianamen. At least one of those that died in Kent State was just on the way to lectures. As for it 'not being ordered'. That is pretty irrelevant as the issue was never investigated at all. As far as I am concerned it was 'ordered after the event'.
The strength of the caste system in the United States is far, far greater than it is in may other places around the world. If you don't believe this, go check.
Your problem would appear to be that you live in the United States, and as such, you can't see it from outside and unfortunately for you, you have been educated to a 'religious' point of view about US 'superiority', 'desirability', and 'freedom'.
I don't want to be a Yank, I prefer to be an Aussie, but even your allies are not allowed their own laws and now we are not even allowed our superior health system as it is not 'competative' enough and the US can't make as much money as it wants from our sick and ill.
But there is no reason why health care for children (at least) should not be paid collectively (ie. by the state, financed from taxes). A child should not be held responsible for picking broke or malfeasant parents.
Isn't ensuring that children are not disadvantaged any more than is possible one of the reasons for the very existence of government? Decreeing what minimum standards of care should be?
Given that the government determines those minimum standards of care, it make for good sense (and efficiency) that the government provide that minimum sandard of care and distribute the cost equally across society. After all we are talking about the next generation. The same could probably be said for education.
No, he's the opposition. A remnant of the Rum Corps.
Then why is the US trying to use the WTO and FTAs to eliminate Australian's safety nets? It is being demanded that we give up state subsidised prescription medicines because the state has monopoly buying (and therefore barganing) power. Our saftey nets are being taken away and challenged because it is not quite so easy to gouge the public here. Our social contract, our social capitalism and our safety nets are 'unfair competition'. Similarly our quarantines are being forcibly lifted. Having a clean and disease free country is also 'unfair competition'.
So you can have your safty net only if somebody in the US cannot make a buck out of it being non-existent. Truth.
Just not at the expense of economic development in America.
America gained a lot of its economic development during and over some extremely favourable trade circumstances. In other words, a good deal of that development was at the expense of the development of others (and still is!). Turnaround is fair play. Having exploited the world for half a century, you seem to feel that that is the 'natural and proper' state of things. It isn't.
I'm all for India and China developing their own industries and serving themselves.
But then you will complain you don't have markets. And start a war to eliminate the industries? No? It would be consistent with past performance. Google is your friend.
So, exactly how is that different from Kent State, almost exactly 34 years ago? So who is too young? http://www.spectacle.org/595/kent.html
India, though a democracy, still has the legacy of a caste system that makes the majority of people inferiors to a group of the upper crust.
And there is no caste or class system in the US, right? All societies have had classes and castes. All that varies is the degree and difficulty of class mobility.
The only people that could REALLY fight for these people are other governments using the WTO treaty... and as we saw last week the Bush administration absolutely refuses to do this.
It would make them very vunerable if they did....
Heat pipes are probably an unecessary overkill.
...when they require a version of flash not readily supported on the OS they favour.
Umm... What happened here? For most, if not all, of Internet history less than 75% of web connections have used a browser. I don't use either P2P or IM but of connections initiated from this site, there would still be far less than 15% that are http or https let alone a browser. Now that does not count DNS as a "connection" but does include FTP, Telnet, CVS, SMTP and quite a few others.
I'll be dammed if I can see the remark as "indicative" of anything except ignorance on behalf of the its maker.
How this got posted as an article I do not understand.
Although I don't actually use Linux in this particular case. I have some severe reservations about Linux ablbeit far, far less than I have about Microsoft OSes. I'm a BSD geek. I should have mentioned that. I've had no troubles with any BSD but I never actually loaded Linux or an MS/OS on the SMP box.
Methinks the imprecision is in the user not the device. I have never seen anything else that come close to a Logitech Trackman Marble FX in regard to precision.
Hmm... I've been running a dual processor since the 350 MHz PII was released. Still using in preference to faster machines (that I have passed on to my children) because of the far greater responsivnss of a dual processor. It has never had anything but Creative soundcards and it has survived Number 9/Matrox and nvidia graphics cards with no driver problems whatsoever.
But then it has never run Windows or Linux either....
I don't know the Kingston but I do know the MS Explorer series. After reading your post I get the impression that you have not even seen the trackball I was talking about (Logitech Trackman Marble FX). It is the size of a billiard ball and so smooth and sensitive that I can move from one corner of the screen to another with just one (any) finger. Your hand shrouds the ball which as over 50% of its surface exposed. The Explorer is not in the same league. Nor is anything else I have ever seen.
However I rarely use those buttons as the Logitech Trackman Marble FX is so easy to use and in addition provides scrolling both vertically and horizantally.
I use a LogiTech Trackman Marble FX.
Left button, middle button and right button AND if I tilt my thumb slightly it hits the fourth button and the 2" (approx) ball becomes a scroll SPHERE. It scrolls both vertically and horizantally. I have had the device for a number of years, it has never needed cleaning and about the only improvement that I could think off would be batteryless IR (which I don't think exists yet).
Every person who has sat at my desk and used it has gone out and bought one. There is simply nothing better in the marketplace that I or anyone I know has ever seen.
It makes any other kind of pointing device look sick.
It took a while to convince the recruiter that BCPL and B existed.
Microsoft was charged and convicted of a criminal offense.
You are incorrect. I've shed my "administrator's belly" in exchange for a six-pack. At 53 that takes a bit of work but it was worth it.
I don't think that is legal. US banks won't issue credit cards to foreign nationals with anon-US adress.
That is because you are too young. The American figure has been used for a long time, but when I was a kid, schools and papers still used the American billion was still quoted as thousands of millions.
Only since 1917
That's what we are all so pissed about.
I do know. My spelling is usually "Commonwealth" (which varies from country to country), but you still missed the point. You made American assumptions in front of an international audience. You are at least, consistent.
Don't bring up Afghanistan as a straw man to draw attentiona way from the Marshall Plan.
Again you betray yourself. People dying in Afghanistan but that's a "straw man" compared to the Marshal Plan. Again consistent. Be Ashamed. And for the coup de grace, the Marshall Plan was not for the benefit of anyone but America. If it was morally based it would not have been selective, now would it? I repeat the point that you keep ignoring - if you pick your charities for your own benefit then you are entitled to only moral opprobrium because you claim moral credit for something that you do for your own benefit.
Regarding Afghanistan and the Marshall Plan - America is still in Afghanistan. I'm sorry our performance there is not satisfactory to you, but do you seriously think the Afghans are worse off than they were under the Taliban?
Can you claim that they are better off after you have illegally invaded, trashed any remaining infrastructure, violated their soverignty and killed large numbers of "wogs"? When are you going to hang your war criminals? Sorry, I know, you don't have any because whatever an American does is legal...
I ask you again. If you want me to believe you, you should answer: What American interest was served in East Timor, Somalia, or Kosovo?
This is a sore point. We'll use just one, East Timor. Your CIA turned the Australian government over on that one. You initiated a regime change over it in 1975. How am I supposed to discuss anything about East Timor with you when you don't have a clue about the history and what your country was up too?
Or are you incensed because I continue to argue? Has no one dared stand up to your irresponsible assertions before? I think your "ignorant American" stereotype has run into a counter-example and it enfuriates you.
On the contrary. I am hoping against hope, (and about to give up) that you may be reachable. But it isn't so. You will accept no responsibility or "fault" for America. "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". You "believe" in your country, as do many Americans. Anyone who "believes" in their country is a fool. People you can beleive in (or not). Countries are not that sort of animal. Truthfully, you seem to be the epitome of the ignorant and arrogant American
I didn't call you a Marxist to insult you, but to describe your seemingly intractable attitude.
Ah... So if I was a marxist, I would be "intractable" would I? Maybe you should note how you classify and sort. It is a bad replacement for thinking. Maybe you should note that you are answering me, not the otherway around. Who is the "intractable" one? "There are none so blind..."
It seems to me that you harbor lots of anger at America.
Betrayal of ideals has that effect...
You didn't appreciate my reasoned arguments so you called them propaganda.
They were reasoned from assuming that illusion is truth. That is not "reason" and I don't have to indulge in it. Your view of the world is factually in error. I can't help that.
You should address the points I bring up instead of calling names.I don't call names and I don't argue "ad hominem". In this case the attitude of America and Americans (of which you appear to be one) is part of what is being discussed. Besides you can hardly berate me. You called me a Marxist among other things. I think there is a fair list of adjectives you have used too. And this is the point "What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander". But not for you. Being American you are entitled to far more than anybody else. Instant respect. Instant assumption of good intentions. Instant assumption of honesty. Sorry, I don't play that game. Due to the facts of isolation and groupithink most Americans are far more ignorant of the world than those in other first world countries. Do you think we can't see what is "missing" from your news"? "Transcripts" with the important bits missing. You are not even getting the information on which you could make an independant and accurate jugement. Fact not insult. But you will take it as the latter.
We are not particularly interested in so-called "international law" because there is no true international rule of law.
...and you will make sure that there never will be unless it is the unilateral might of America. America "is impotent, corrupt, and worthless. We will not corrupt ourselves by kowtowing to it."(quoteing yourself) despite what our poiticians do.
"Sieg Heil" the Iron Dream...
Prably not. You appear in denial. Nevertheless - for your sake and America's sake I will try.
You seem to favor internationlism, even impotent internationalism.
I favour the rule of law. International law will have to be international. Law notNations.
You seem to come from a Marxist worldview,
You can't deal with it so label it with an insult and dismiss it? No, I'm not a Marxist, I'm not a communist. Most people call me right-wing.
re coming to this discussion from such different arguments that I doubt we can have a productive discussion.
Prably not. You appear in denial. Nevertheless - for your sake and America's sake I will try.
You seem to favor internationlism, even impotent internationalism.
I favour the rule of law. International law will have to be international. Law notNations.
You seem to come from a Marxist worldview,
You can't deal with it so label it with an insult and dismiss it? No, I'm not a Marxist, I'm not a communist. Most people call me right-wing.
and you think that America has never done anything good or even benign.Really? read my posts again instead of propogandising about them?Jefferson may have been the most important human being ever. Pity you don't subsc ribe to his points of vies (and call him 'Marxist')...
Regarding the American ideal: I'm puzzled that you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the American ideal. Have you not studied here? Don't you know us? Your English is so good it seems you must have. If you knew us, you'd realize that Americans are not primarily motivated by currency markets and covering our dollar-costs. That is a Soviet- fed Marxist fantasy. We do have some Americans that share your view in America, but they are primarily self-loathing Marxist-Stalinists like the A.N.S.W.E.R. folks.
I don't misunderstand it. You misunderstand the American culture. I have not studies in America. Both my English and my education would be worse if I had - you'll take that as an insult and "it could not possibly be right" - but it is just a statement of fact. I speak English, not A merican. I think that I understand both America and its viewpoint well enough. Probably better than most American as I can see it from outside.
Regarding America's economic motivations: Your assertion that America came out even or ahead economically from the Second World War is untenable.Good, because I never made that assertion. You appear to be trying to convin ce people I did. Have you surrendered argument for propoganda? If you are not going to be honest there isn't much point in continuing is there? If the Marshall plan was a moral decision it should have applied universally, not s electively. And where is Afghanistans Marshall plan? in Afghanistan, America has behaved like the scum of the Earth.
Regarding my assertion that you are anti-American: Your arguments give lie to your assertion that you are not anti-American.
Crap. I don't have to support everything America does and I don't. Yeah, yeah, I know, because I won't like your (America's) arse and say "your're perfect even when you are raping me", yeah that makes me "Anti-America" right.... To you I say "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". Stop the propoganda. Wake up and smell the roses. Find out some unbiased truth.
You have to be anti-American to say that America has never shown benign intentions, good will, or correct foreign policy.I have to be because you say so... Right, that's the point friend. Neither you nor your country has the right to say or assume that. It is simply not true however much you wish to believe it.
What American interest was served in East Timor, Somalia, or Kosovo?
How can anyone not in denial or impossibly ignorant ask that question. Learn Read. Stop being an ignorant American peasant.
For that matter, what American interest was served pulling your fannies out of the fire twice in the last century? A majority of Americans opposed war until Japan pulled us into that war, you know.Errmm... Whose fanny? I d on't even have a vagina to pull from the fire, I'm a mail. (Please try not to miss that one!).
Regarding the League of Nations: It failed because it was a tool of British Empire, not a legitimate internation al body. Nobody was very excited about it. The only way it could have survived would have been with America's leadership. America withdrew because the LoN was poorly executed and tried to limit American sovreignty. Now the UN is g oing the same direction.The important words there are "limit American sovreignty". That is why America "destroyed" the LoN and why it will destroy the UN. America is interested in only its own sovreignty - and that is the is sue.
and you think that America has never done anything good or even benign.Really? read my posts again instead of propogandising about them?Jefferson may have been the most important human being ever. Pity you don't subscribe to his points of vies (and call him 'Marxist')...
Regarding the American ideal: I'm puzzled that you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the American ideal. Have you not studied here? Don't you know us? Your English is so good it seems you must have. If you knew us, you'd realize that Americans are not primarily motivated by currency markets and covering our dollar-costs. That is a Soviet-fed Marxist fantasy. We do have some Americans that share your view in America, but they are primarily self-loathing Marxist-Stalinists like the A.N.S.W.E.R. folks.
I don't misunderstand it. You misunderstand the American culture. I have not studies in America. Both my English and my education would be worse if I had - you'll take that as an insult and "it could not possibly be right" - but it is just a statement of fact. I speak English, not American. I think that I understand both America and its viewpoint well enough. Probably better than most American as I can see it from outside.
Regarding America's economic motivations: Your assertion that America came out even or ahead economically from the Second World War is untenable.Good, because I never made that assertion. You appear to be trying to convince people I did. Have you surrendered argument for propoganda? If you are not going to be honest there isn't much point in continuing is there? If the Marshall plan was a moral decision it should have applied universally, not selectively. And where is Afghanistans Marshall plan? in Afghanistan, America has behaved like the scum of the Earth.
Regarding my assertion that you are anti-American: Your arguments give lie to your assertion that you are not anti-American.
Crap. I don't have to support everything America does and I don't. Yeah, yeah, I know, because I won't like your (America's) arse and say "your're perfect even when you are raping me", yeah that makes me "Anti-America" right.... To you I say "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". Stop the propoganda. Wake up and smell the roses. Find out some unbiased truth.
You have to be anti-American to say that America has never shown benign intentions, good will, or correct foreign policy.I have to be because you say so... Right, that's the point friend. Neither you nor your country has the right to say or assume that. It is simply not true however much you wish to believe it.
What American interest was served in East Timor, Somalia, or Kosovo?
How can anyone not in denial or impossibly ignorant ask that question. Learn Read. Stop being an ignorant American peasant.
For that matter, what American interest was served pulling your fannies out of the fire twice in the last century? A majority of Americans opposed war until Japan pulled us into that war, you know.Errmm... Whose fanny? I don't even have a vagina to pull from the fire, I'm a mail. (Please try not to miss that one!).
Regarding the League of Nations: It failed because it was a tool of British Empire, not a legitimate international body. Nobody was very excited about it. The only way it could have survived would have been with America's leadership. America withdrew because the LoN was poorly executed and tried to limit American sovreignty. Now the UN is going the same direction.The important words there are "limit American sovreignty". That is why America "destroyed" the LoN and why it will destroy the UN. America is interested in only its own sovreignty - and that is the issue.
Regarding internationalism and war-crimes trials: You propose that war criminals, Iraqis and Americans, should face international courts. How do you propose to try them without invading? Also, as an American I am not going to take my chances with someone like you as judge. You've already condemned me just for being an American. We reserve the right to try our own criminals.
'Someone like me' eh? I've not condemmed anyone. It seems more like you have condemmed me for not being an arse-licker. You have been the one to turn this into am 'ad hominem' argument, not me. Note that it is considerd a loosing strategy.
Regarding Australia: My wife grew up there, so I know a little. Let me know when they complain.
Australians have been complaining for a long time. Long enough that America manipulated a regime change in Australia in 1975. You're not listening.
Regarding human rights: There is no reason that any American should go hungry.
Dead right
We have aid to families with dependent children (food stamps), shelters, and enormous domestic food-aid programs. Those that endure hunger have only their parents or themselves to blame because they fail to apply for government aid or they spend their aid money on alchohol. We try hard to make sure everyone has enough to eat. We advertise our welfare programs on TV. Don't give me that 13% of Americans go hungry crap. That is total propaganda. It is true that we have a huge homelessness problem, but it is very complex and has nothing to do with human rights.It has everything to do with human rights.
Regarding so-called unilateralism: Thirty seven countries are currently backing the U.S. in our war effort. Is there a word for that? Thirtysevellateralism?Thiry-seven 'bought' nations against how many others?
Regarding Guantanamo: Detainees have Korans, good food, shelter, and are treated humanely. No American could wish for so much in any Muslim country. Do they have a right to trial? No! They are enemy combatants!i
Because you, unilaterally say so. You are behaving outside international law and outside of your constitution by chicanery. If you cnsider that situation just or proper, well... I can't see how that differs from insanity. You invaded them for chrissakes.
Then you have some idea of what your code is going to have to do...