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Funny Things You've Seen on Resumes?

noackjr asks: "Everyone wants a great job, but writing a quality resume requires creativity and a fair bit of work (we won't go into actually having the proper skills, qualifications, or experiences -- let's not cloud the issue). Alternatively, sprucing up your resume with a few choice pieces of quasi-truth might set you apart from other 'qualified' candidates (the HR person will never figure it out, right?). A friend from college included knowledge of 'C, C+, and C++' on his resume. He had worked in C and C++ and just figured there had to be a C+ as well (too bad he didn't list C+-). He ended up getting a $50,000+/yr job with a major US tech firm using that resume. Anyone else come across funny/pathetic attempts to improve a resume?"

361 comments

  1. Additional Accomplishments by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 5, Funny

    First Post on slashdot.org

    --

    Operator, give me the number for 911!
    1. Re:Additional Accomplishments by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 3, Funny

      Whoever modded parent down is a jackass.

      And I don't mind taking the karma hit to say so.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    2. Re:Additional Accomplishments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not offtopic. Damn idiot moderators. "Additional Accomplishments" is a section on many resumes. It's funny and on topic, which is a damn site better than almost every other first post.

    3. Re:Additional Accomplishments by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ok. Whoever modded my comment up is a jackass too.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    4. Re:Additional Accomplishments by Hanji · · Score: 2, Funny

      Give it up - they're out to get you, man.

      --
      A Minesweeper clone that doesn't suck
    5. Re:Additional Accomplishments by queen+of+everything · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And of course you have to include your slashdot karma rating. Nothing impresses a potential employer more!

      Plus, if its a guage of how much you want to work for the company if they actually get it.

      --
      "Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the life-long attempt to acquire it." -Albert Einstein
    6. Re:Additional Accomplishments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Nice way of upping your karma, karma whore !

    7. Re:Additional Accomplishments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Yeah, I was going to respond to his response to himself about how I don't want karma either, but I think - in any given thread - the law of diminishing karma returns roars its head eventually.

    8. Re:Additional Accomplishments by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 1

      In retrospect, if I wanted to get modded down, I should have acted more idiotic. Something like, "Hey, dudes, mod this comment up too!"

      Nothing works like reverse psychology.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    9. Re:Additional Accomplishments by JDWTopGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Whoever modded you up is a... oh forget it.

      --
      Ron Paul 2012
  2. Mind boggling what people get away with by fm6 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Saw a resume once with a lot of bogus stuff on it. Not only had the guy listed degrees from schools he never attended, he misspelled the names of the schools. Didn't stop him from getting hired at the height of the dotcom bubble.

    1. Re:Mind boggling what people get away with by 4of12 · · Score: 3, Funny

      he misspelled the names of the schools.

      Let me guess: his previous position was writing copy for a spammer...

      F R EE VI-AGRA 4 U !!!!

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    2. Re:Mind boggling what people get away with by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know that they deliberately misspell things in order to pass naive spam filters, right?

    3. Re:Mind boggling what people get away with by 4of12 · · Score: 1

      You know that they deliberately misspell things in order to pass naive spam filters, right?

      If the resume gets past the naive resume filters to a real live person, then they've succeeded.

      As in, "I've always wanted to have 8 years experience C++, CCNA, 9 years project lead XML Web commerce developer..."

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
  3. Programming languages by GuyMannDude · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I grow weary of seeing lots of young 20-something applicants fresh out of school who claim they have excellent coding skills and then proceed to list about ten different languages including HTML. First, HTML is not a programming language. Secondly, it takes years to learn how to program WELL in a complex language like C++. You may know the basic syntax for ten different languages, but that doesn't mean you're an expert programmer in all. And I'd argue that if you think listing tons of languages makes you look impressive, I would argue you're not much of a programmer at all (unless you've been working for decades).

    Another applicant wrote in his cover letter than his goal was to get a Nobel prize. We are a defense contractor. They don't give out Nobel prizes for "Most Novel New Method to Kill People". Besides, this guy had a GPA of less than 3.5. Better get cracking if you want that Nobel prize, pal.

    GMD

    1. Re:Programming languages by rot26 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      First, HTML is not a programming language

      No, but it's a meta-language, and they usually don't include a space to include the meta-languages you are proficient in. It's easier (arguably safer) to just throw "HTML" in with C, C++, etc, and take a chance on having a nit-picker down you for it, rather than take the chance of it being a keyword some HR drone is looking for and not finding.

      --



      To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
    2. Re:Programming languages by BRSloth · · Score: 1

      Meh, I always put HTML in the "Document formatting languages", along with LaTeX.

      And I just added LaTeX to impress my friends.

    3. Re:Programming languages by secolactico · · Score: 4, Funny

      Besides, this guy had a GPA of less than 3.5. Better get cracking if you want that Nobel prize, pal.

      I dunno... there's always the Peace one. What was Mother Teresa's GPA anyway?

      --
      No sig
    4. Re:Programming languages by meta-monkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I know a few languages really, really well. I'd say C, C++, PHP, perl I know backwards and forwards. However, I'm also familiar with many, many more, like Java, Objective C, SQL, python, JavaScript, several assemly languages, etc. I list them all on my resume, but the best ones first. Now, do I know Java anywhere near as well as I know C++? No! But if I got hired for a job where I needed to do extensive Java programming, I'm pretty sure I could ramp up awfully fast. So why not list Java programming as one of my credentials? I agree with you on the HTML thing, though :)

      The Nobel Prize? Eh, if I ran the committee, you guys would have a chance. You make big guns, and the fact that we have those big guns makes our enemies too afraid to attack us, making the world a safer place. I hereby nominate you, GuyMannDude, for a Nobel Peace Prize! (or should that be "Nobel Piece Prize?")

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    5. Re:Programming languages by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 5, Insightful


      Free hint: they list all the languages that they have heard about, because recruiters search keywords on the web-based job boards. The goal of a resume is not to prove your skills--the goal of a resume is to get to talk to a recruiter. The interview (or three) is the place to demonstrate your skills.

      Anybody who keeps to a strictly modest resume simply hasn''t looked for work in the last three years--getting the recruiter to recognize that you're actually an ideal candidate for a position that they know nothing about is more than half the battle.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    6. Re:Programming languages by the+Man+in+Black · · Score: 4, Informative

      They don't give out Nobel prizes for "Most Novel New Method to Kill People".

      Actually...

      I count 16 Nobel Prize winners highlighted. Sure they didn't EXACTLY win for what their discoveries were used for, but still.

    7. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Someone I know very well listed the specialized language used by the tech company they applied to on their CV even though they only had passing knowledge of it. Upon being granted an offer they immediately asked for a start date months/weeks in the future (can't remember exact time span). They spent this entire time building credible expertise in the language.

      I wonder how often this happens. I was surprised to learn the company didn't ask specific questions to test knowledge of the language, but I guess your average HR person omits this test.

    8. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are doing a disservice your orginization by automatically writing off all 20-somethings as lacking excelent coding skills. Just because you were out playing football and drinking beer in your late teens and weren't working on commercial software products to pay your way through college doesn't mean all 20-somethings don't have years of experience and the ability to write and even design highly complex projects with high quality levels. In fact, some of the best software engineers I know are in their mid 20s, and some of the worst I know are over 30. Oh, and guess which of them are more expensive salary wise. If I may, let me use myself as an example. I was working for Lotus writing code for Notes/Domino when I was 19, and they were't treating me special just because I was young. They gave me hard problems too. Now, at 25 I have 6 years of good real-world experience... There are plenty of 31 year-olds out there who can't say the same. I'm not saying this is the general rule, but there enough people out there in the same situation that it's worth looking instead of putting resumes of under-30s in the circular file. Interview the candidates and judge them on their skills instead of basing your hiring decision on your age prejudices.

    9. Re:Programming languages by Hanji · · Score: 1

      I'd say C, C++, PHP, perl I know backwards and forwards.

      Does anyone aside from Larry really know Perl completely?

      --
      A Minesweeper clone that doesn't suck
    10. Re:Programming languages by Tom7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You may know the basic syntax for ten different languages, but that doesn't mean you're an expert programmer in all.

      On the other hand, if you have a good general education in programming with a lot of hacking experience in a few languages, then you sure won't find it very difficult to pick up C#, even if you only have passing familiarity with its syntax.

    11. Re:Programming languages by hawkbug · · Score: 1

      So you're saying anyone with a GPA of less than 3.5 can't get a good job and has no skills? Better tell that to the employers I have had for the last 5 years, some of which while I was in school... instead of memorizing test questions, I was busy learning how to program at my job to help get me through my over priced education.

    12. Re:Programming languages by foonf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They don't give out Nobel prizes for "Most Novel New Method to Kill People"

      You do know how Alfred Nobel made his fortune, right?

      --

      "(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
    13. Re:Programming languages by msuzio · · Score: 1, Redundant

      > They don't give out Nobel prizes for "Most
      > Novel New Method to Kill People".

      Irony intended, I'm sure, but you do know what Alfred Nobel was famous for, right?

    14. Re:Programming languages by orkysoft · · Score: 1

      So that'll be one Nobel Prize for Physics for inventing a Doomsday Device, and one Nobel Prize for Peace for not using it ;-)

      --

      I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
    15. Re:Programming languages by Kethinov · · Score: 0, Insightful
      First, HTML is not a programming language.
      HyperText Markup Language is indeed a programming language. Just because it's child's play compared to C doesn't make it not a programming language. There are only two fundamental differences between coding HTML and coding C:

      HTML has an element, attribute, property structure instead of functions, if statements, etc. If this is your basis behind calling it not a programming language, throw out xml and all its variants while you're at it.

      HTML is interpreted, not compiled. If that's your basis behind calling it not a programming language, then throw out php and other serversides while you're at it.

      Secondly, it takes years to learn how to program WELL in a complex language like C++. You may know the basic syntax for ten different languages, but that doesn't mean you're an expert programmer in all.
      Yes, it takes years to get good. Where the hell do most people get their years of programming experience? At a job. You don't get a nice progrmaming job by putting on your resume that you have nothing but an understanding of syntax. You say you know the languages then when you get hired, you look up information you don't know so you can get the job done.

      Half the reason the job market is so bad right is because people like you don't give new guys a chance. If they don't have 10 years of experience they're instant crap in your eyes. Well unless someone gives'm a chance, all they're going to get is 10 years of experience in being unemployed.

      Learn by doing. Do by working. Embelished resumes are a fact of life.
      --
      You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
    16. Re:Programming languages by cperciva · · Score: 3, Funny

      Somehow, I don't think many defense contractors would want to hire someone who intends to win the Nobel Peace prize.

    17. Re:Programming languages by Tumbleweed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hate to bring this up, but it takes years to be good at HTML, as well, and most of you absolutely SUCK at it even with that amount of experience. *sigh*

      If you program in C, you probably suck at HTML. (Yes, I know, the truth hurts, but so will the Troll or Flamebait mod this post will get, despite being Insightful *shrug*).

    18. Re:Programming languages by cperciva · · Score: 2, Funny
      I'd say C, C++, PHP, perl I know backwards and forwards.
      Does anyone aside from Larry really know Perl completely?

      You misunderstand. He's saying that he knows C, C++, PHP, perl, ++C, and lrep.
    19. Re:Programming languages by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      I grow weary of seeing lots of young 20-something applicants fresh out of school who claim they have excellent coding skills and then proceed to list about ten different languages including HTML. First, HTML is not a programming language. Secondly, it takes years to learn how to program WELL in a complex language like C++. You may know the basic syntax for ten different languages, but that doesn't mean you're an expert programmer in all. And I'd argue that if you think listing tons of languages makes you look impressive, I would argue you're not much of a programmer at all (unless you've been working for decades).

      I'm 23, and I'm quite serious about the 17 years of programming experience I claim on my resume. I'm also quite serious about the dozen languages I list. I list the four languages I'm proficient in (Basic, C, C++, Perl) on one line each, along with years of experience. The other eight languages (ML, RoboTalk, Intel assembler, VAX assembler, PHP, Visual Basic, Delphi, and Bash scripting) are on a single line, prefaced with "Also know"

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    20. Re:Programming languages by GuyMannDude · · Score: 1

      Half the reason the job market is so bad right is because people like you don't give new guys a chance.

      I give new guys a chance if they know where they are in their professional career. If someone straight out of school stresses that they are young and excited about work and they have a working knowledge of several programming languages, I'm interested in hearing more. If they claim are an expert in 10 programming languages, then (most likely) they do not know what they are talking about. And I still disagree with your choice to upgrade HTML to a programming language. It is a description/markup language. You don't "run" an HTML page.

      Learn by doing. Do by working. Embelished resumes are a fact of life.

      As I said before, I work for a defense contractor. If we 'embellish' our work/results/products, people die. I am not interested in individuals who tell 'little white lies' in order to get hired. Let them work for Microsoft or something.

      GMD

    21. Re:Programming languages by brianjcain · · Score: 1
      HyperText Markup Language is indeed a programming language. Just because it's child's play compared to C doesn't make it not a programming language. There are only two fundamental differences between coding HTML and coding C:
      No way, Jose. Are you trying to contend with the example cited in the summary? You've expanded the acronym, now read it. HTML is a Markup Language. What's often considered the ultimate criterion of a programming language is Turing equivalency. Here's an example of what I mean (lacking any authority, but what the hey). Would you consider an MS Word or document (the binary/ASCII hybrid file that results, not the text contained within) to be source code written in a programming language? Then why should you think HTML files are 'code' either? (Funny aside -- PostScript's processing instructions would probably make it a good exception to these examples -- it probably _is_ Turing equivalent).
    22. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Umm, you're 100% wrong.

      HyperText Markup Language is indeed a programming language. Just because it's child's play compared to C doesn't make it not a programming language.

      You bolded "language" - but the OP wasn't saying HTML isn't a language, he's saying it's not a programming language - and he's exactly right.

      HTML has an element, attribute, property structure instead of functions, if statements, etc. If this is your basis behind calling it not a programming language, throw out xml and all its variants while you're at it.

      Exactly - XML isn't a programming language either. It's still just markup. Things start getting a little murkier with XSL, since XSL does have very programmatic structures like loops, (immutable) variable, and templates that can be vaguely analogous to functions.

      HTML is interpreted, not compiled. If that's your basis behind calling it not a programming language, then throw out php and other serversides while you're at it.

      No one is claiming PHP isn't a programming language because it's not compiled. Perl isn't compiled either (well, not the way you think), but you'd have to be smoking some powerful weed to think it's not a programming language.

      A programming language needs data structures. It needs instructions and control flow. HTML has none of that.

      Embelished resumes are a fact of life.

      Spoken like a true HTML "programmer"...

      I know it hurts to hear that all the HTML coding you do doesn't make you a programmer - but get over it. Actually now that I think about it, you probably do some javascript too in your job duties and that DOES count as a programming language, so you can call yourself a programmer after all! Hurray for Kethinov the programmer!!

    23. Re:Programming languages by kommakazi · · Score: 1

      Isn't that the point of defense, keeping the peace? Think about it...weapons that kill create peace because in the course of a war eventually you're going to kill enough of your enemy (if not all of them) that whoever's left is going to give up and make peace (or the lack of enemy will create peace by default). So really you could call weapons of mass destruction weapons of mass peace. Just wait and see...once preident Bush gets wind of this theory, I'm sure our massive nuclear arsenal will become classified as weapons of mass peace.

    24. Re:Programming languages by Thomas+A.+Anderson · · Score: 1
      HyperText Markup Language is indeed a programming language.

      Nope it's a way of storing data with attributes. Same with XML.

      ...then throw out php and other serversides while you're at it.

      Nope, wrong again. PHP actually can be used to compute stuff and access databases. Can't do that with HTML or XML.

      --
      Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand (bash.org)
    25. Re:Programming languages by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1
      The goal of a resume is not to prove your skills--the goal of a resume is to get to talk to a recruiter.

      Mod parent up, because he's damn well right.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    26. Re:Programming languages by dtfinch · · Score: 1

      It seems to be a big leap to say that markup languages are programming languages. Sure, it's text that has structure and is interpreted to produce a result, but so are all the other text based file formats out there. Does a word document automatically become a program the instant you export it to a text based format like html, xml, or rtf?

      I would consider PostScript to be a true programming language though. It has functions, loops, recursion, etc.

    27. Re:Programming languages by fredrikj · · Score: 1

      If HTML is a programming language then so is ASCII.

    28. Re:Programming languages by cperciva · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand. Defense contractors make far more money in times of war than in times of peace.

    29. Re:Programming languages by kommakazi · · Score: 1

      I know what a defense contractor is and does and that they obviously make far more money during times of war. My point is, to put it slightly more simply, that defense contractors create weapons to fight wars which end in peace. All the destruction and death leads to peace in the end.

    30. Re:Programming languages by cperciva · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Secondly, it takes years to learn how to program WELL in a complex language like C++.

      No. It takes years to learn how to program well. Once you know how to program well, picking up a new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, except in the most baroque cases (INTERCAL, BrainF***, etc).

    31. Re:Programming languages by c · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "HyperText Markup Language is indeed a programming language. Just because it's child's play compared to C doesn't make it not a programming language."

      What makes it "not a programming language" is that it's not Turing complete. It's a markup language, not a programming language. A complicated markup language full of browser-specific pitfalls and more standards documents than you can shake a stick at, but without flow control there's a real limit to how much trouble someone could get themselves into.

      It may seem like a small distinction, but if I saw a resume with HTML listed as a programming language, I'd assume that the applicant has a weak grasp of language theory. It would certainly make me suspect how well they understood the concepts behind the other 8 or 9 languages they feel obligated to list.

      c.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    32. Re:Programming languages by leitz · · Score: 1

      They also count hits on the same words, so if you used C++ or whatever for different projects, list it repeatedly. Also, use specific terms--"Java" instead of "Object Oriented Program Languages".

    33. Re:Programming languages by _Splat · · Score: 1

      BrainFuck is really easy to learn.. It only has 8 symbols and no real syntax. Doing anything useful in it is just a pain in the ass.

      --
      -Splat
    34. Re:Programming languages by magnum3065 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I haven't programmed in PostScript myself, but I have a professor who used it to write a bunch of assignments as an undergrad. He wrote a raytracer in it for one assignment. When someone noticed that he had a print job that had been sitting on the printer for several hours they got a little suspicious and asked him about it. He was just like "Yeah, it shouldn't be too much longer."

    35. Re:Programming languages by s88 · · Score: 1

      It speaks volumes of slashdot that this parent got modded to 5, Insightful. It is 100% wrong, as many of the lesser modded children posts can easily explain if you bother to read them.

    36. Re:Programming languages by stienman · · Score: 1

      HyperText Markup Language is indeed a programming language.

      HyperText Markup Language is *not* a programming language. The basic definition of a programming language, IMHO, is one that is turing complete, ie, it can solve any np complete problem given infinite time and resources.

      HTML can't even add, nevermind bootstrapping itself (ie, writing an HTML interpreter/compiler in HTML which can interpret/compile itself)

      -Adam

    37. Re:Programming languages by AltaMannen · · Score: 1

      "HTML is interpreted, not compiled. If that's your basis behind calling it not a programming language, then throw out php and other serversides while you're at it."

      I'd call it parsed, not interpreted as in an interpretive programming language. HTML is a document format that happens to be text-based instead of binary. If you can make an iterative function to calculate pi or a similar function I'd call it a programming language.

    38. Re:Programming languages by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > I grow weary of seeing lots of young 20-something applicants fresh out of
      > school who claim they have excellent coding skills and then proceed to
      > list about ten different languages including HTML

      My resume lists languages in categories according to how well I know them.
      It says I'm fluent in Perl and lisp and "somewhat familiar" with several
      other languages. At one point it also said "and have had courses in" yet
      several more languages, but that's one of the things that's going to get cut
      next time I have to print the thing and want to get it down to a page, because
      I've added several technologies (like MySQL) since the last time I did so.

      And yeah, I list HTML, and CSS, but not under "programming languages". I list
      them in under web development, alongside CGI and MySQL.

      But I may not be the typical applicant you're talking about; my resume also
      says I have a little VMS experience...

      And I'm gonna have to take MS Office off, because the last time I did anything
      serious with it was too many versions ago at this point. (Think in terms of
      a version that ran on Windows 3.1...)

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    39. Re:Programming languages by DeadSea · · Score: 2, Funny
      I'd say C, C++, PHP, perl I know backwards and forwards.
      I know PHP backwards and forwards, its the same both ways, I just had to learn it forwards.
    40. Re:Programming languages by Bush+Pig · · Score: 1

      And, after all, Henry Kissinger got a Nobel Peace Prize for his sterling work in bombing Cambodia back to the stone age ...

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
    41. Re:Programming languages by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      TNT baby TNT

    42. Re:Programming languages by Kethinov · · Score: 1

      You make good points, but that little part at the end is needlessly and childishly insulting and makes some presumptuous false assumptions such as assuming I write webpages for a living when I don't and assuming all I know is HTML (and Javascript).

      Ignoring the final part of your post and despite the rest of its good points, my point remains valid. HTML may not fit in the literal definition of a programming language due to its lack of flow control, but its very complicated for a simple markup language and is often used as the gateway language to programming in languages that do have flow control. Understanding elements, attributes, and properties goes a long way toward helping learning to understand if statements, loops, and functions.

      With that being said, one "codes" HTML just as one "codes" C which in and of itself proves that in general, the use of HTML is considered to be a form of programming which makes HTML a (informal?) programming language, albeit and admittedly a lesser one.

      --
      You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
    43. Re:Programming languages by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Absolutely true.

      A resume isn't a resume any more, it's a list of keywords for some recruiter to search on. He doesn't know what the words means, he's just looking for matches. ...and I say this as a foolishly steadfast person who refuses to put anything on his resume that he can't back up 100%. If I say I can do, then, dammit, I can do it.

      It's not your father's job market out there. Employees are commodities, on about the same level as office furniture, except the office furniture gets to stick around longer. You are not a person with a unique set of skills, but rather a list of keywords that may or may not have any bearing on your skill set, or even worse, the intangible benefits of a well-rounded education.

      What employers seem to want today is an idiot savant. Someone with superior skill in whatever particular item they are interested in (or think they are interested in), and they don't give a damn about anything else.

      I know from experience that "thinking out of the box" may be an overused and supposedly virtuous cliche term, but most managers wouldn't know how to do it and would be frightened or angry if their employees actually did.

      I just survived 5 months at a place where, based on my resume and interview (I'm a Windows C++ programmer with 16 years professional programming experience), they couldn't hire me fast enough, but insisted I work like an entry-level person. If an entry-level programmer couldn't walk in on what I was doing at any time and immediately understand it, they didn't want to see it. I probably pee'd a few people off when I suggested that the 4-programmer team I was on could easily be replaced by one programmer and a couple of QA people at about half the cost, and then explained how. But of course, this is government work, you aren't paid the most for getting the job done quickly, you are paid the most for billing the most hours before the deadline.

      Sorry, but I'm just a bit cynical about it all these days.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    44. Re:Programming languages by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > You don't "run" an HTML page.

      Well, no, of course you can't just run it. You have to compile and link
      it first...</rimshot>

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    45. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are going to die from your work anyway, so what's your point?

    46. Re:Programming languages by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > Funny aside -- PostScript's processing instructions would probably make it
      > a good exception to these examples -- it probably _is_ Turing equivalent

      I fail to see how that makes it an exception. Sure, PostScript is powerful
      enough to be classified as a programming language. But it's not really a
      general-purpose language. So then, it's in the same category with TADS and
      POV -- a niche programming language, suited for a particular purpose.

      I would not classify PostScript as a markup language merely because it is
      capable of formatting content. Perl has extensive support for formats, and
      as far as that goes even C has printf, but we don't call them markup languages,
      because they support variables and flow control, which makes them programming
      languages. HTML (as such) supports neither, so it's obviously not a programming
      language. (There is of course ECMA script... but that is generally considered
      a separate language from HTML, close association notwithstanding.)

      I suppose one could argue that PostScript is a markup language because its
      primary intended purpose is to format content, but IMO that argument falls
      flat unless you want to consider ECMA script and PHP as markup languages
      also, which seems clearly wrong to me. Markup languages don't have flow
      control and variables and conditionals and so on and so forth.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    47. Re:Programming languages by danielsfca2 · · Score: 1

      > They don't give out Nobel prizes for "Most Novel New Method to Kill People".

      Um, he didn't say "Nobel Peace Prize." He said Nobel Prize. They do give out Nobel prizes for physics, chemistry, economics, medicine/physiology, and literature as well as for peace.

      I'm sure plenty of Nobel-prize-worthy groundbreaking discoveries in the areas of physics and chemistry are created for the express purpose of killing people.

    48. Re:Programming languages by Dausha · · Score: 1

      He's saying that he knows C, C++, PHP, perl, ++C, and lrep.

      Nope. That's PERL, C, C++, PHP, ++C, C, LERP. More symetric.

      --
      What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
    49. Re:Programming languages by FreeForm+Response · · Score: 1
      [...] but without flow control there's a real limit to how much trouble someone could get themselves into.
      Hehehe.

      I propose a new definition of programming language: it's not a programming language unless you can write and execute an infinite loop with it.

      I think that sounds good, yeah?
    50. Re:Programming languages by Nynaeve · · Score: 1

      I'm 29 and I have 20 years of programming experience, but my employer will only recognize the last four (read: in my salary) because that's the only time for which I was paid by someone to develop software.

      Even though I know much more, I don't claim any experience that wasn't part of a paid position. I have been told on many occasions experience is valuable only if someone was willing to pay you for it.

      The proper time to bring up your non-work experience is in a face-to-face or phone interview where you can discuss the matter and explain how your additional knowledge can make you a greater value than someone without it.

    51. Re:Programming languages by leonbrooks · · Score: 1
      it's not a programming language unless you can write and execute an infinite loop with it.

      But that makes MS-Windows a programming language! All you have to do is write, and sooner or later it will go into an infinite loop. Strictly speaking, the "write" part is optional there.

      --
      Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
    52. Re:Programming languages by Molina+the+Bofh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nonono... Trust me. You don't know perl backwards... Simply because perl doesn't allow such thing. In Perl, instructions are run sequentially, going forward only.

      If you really want to impress, you must say you know Befunge backwards. In case you don't know, Befunge is a languge that allows the program counter to move not only forwards and backwards but also sideways. You can see some sample programs here.

      --

      -
      Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
    53. Re:Programming languages by tpv · · Score: 1
      Although they probably want to see "Object Oriented Design" in there somewhere.

      How about:
      "10 years of experience in the full software development lifecycle, using object oriented analysis and design to produce enterprise systems using the Java programming language on Windows and Unix (Sun Solaris/AIX/HP-UX/Linux) platforms."

      Once upon a time it was easy, we could just say "I'm in IT" and people would ask us to come interview. sigh.

      --
      Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.
    54. Re:Programming languages by canadianjoe · · Score: 1

      Well, no, ASCII is a standard for the representation of common (and some not-so-common) characters that (generally) are human-readable.

    55. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Postscript is considered to be a page description language. It is a full fledged programming language though. People have written compilers, web servers, and as noted above ray tracers using the language. Of course most of these were done becuase of their hack value, and might well have been faster/easier/etc. in some other language.

    56. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      But C++ is definitely one of the most baroque languages out there, and as a whole a lot more complicated than small toys like INTERCAL. Even for very smart people, it takes years to get to the level of knowing 99% of C++ features and being able to judge how to best combine them to solve a particular design problem. A below average programmer may never get to that level.

    57. Re:Programming languages by jschank · · Score: 1

      Feh, knowing both C++ and ++C is simple. One increments after you use it, and the other increments before you use it.

    58. Re:Programming languages by Zarf · · Score: 1

      Nobel created the Nobel Prizes so his name would be remembered for something other than what he was famous for at the time of his death. Nobel was a famous weapons merchant. He created powerful explosive devices for the purpose of killing as many people as possible. So at the end of his life he regreted how he had made his fortune as a merchant of death and left a will that lead to the creation of the Nobel prizes.

      So there is a great deal of irony in someone in a DoD position aspiring to win a Nobel Prize. It's akin to an accountant saying his dream in life is to be a Starship Captain. Thus it is funny... depending on the attitude of the person it's either funny "ha ha" or funny strange.

      --
      [signature]
    59. Re:Programming languages by Zarf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It takes years to learn how to program well.

      I would also say that it takes time to learn a technology or tool used in programming. It takes time to learn the tools/programming techniques associated with Unix, Databases, and Networking. I think employers should look for people with a basic toolset that fills most of their needs and not worry if the person doesn't know their programming language of choice... or the precise toolset they have... but the problem is in the measure of skill.

      How do you prove yourself? How do you prove to an employer that your aren't lying or fudging your skill level? So many people do fudge their skill level (and I know for a fact that some people learn more in 2 years than others in 5 at the same job) that many employers inflate the number of years experience a job really needs.

      The same inflation is true for college degrees and certifications.

      I work in a place where I can assess that my 6 years programming experience makes me inferior on a resume to my coworker with 14 years but a review of our code will show that I really am the better programmer. It would be the same resume bullet, 6 years at X versus 14 years at X... admittedly this guy knows an older version of the language I have experience with only through reviewing artifacts left behind by older programmers...

      How should I capture 6 years experience but better than some people's 14? How do you know I'm being honest and not just bragging? How do you know I'm not right?

      --
      [signature]
    60. Re:Programming languages by Zarf · · Score: 1

      So all those volunteer and open source type projects don't count. You said it, not me. Hear that kids? Working on the Linux Kernel, a NLVE, or USB drivers doesn't count as experience.

      Actually, in a way I can see that.

      --
      [signature]
    61. Re:Programming languages by Zarf · · Score: 1

      Turing Completeness doesn't really matter... a programming language has to beable to support the creation of Algorithms. Can HTML, XML or any ML support the creation of an algorithm? These are markup or container languages... they don't do algorithms.

      That's just my opinion. I'm sure there is a dictionary definition...

      --
      [signature]
    62. Re:Programming languages by leitz · · Score: 2, Informative
      Ty, I'd suggest some changes. Keep in mind I'm a sysadmin, but you'll probably see what I'm thinking. If you have 10 years of experience you've probably done quite a few projects. So, in the top of your resume list the languages you're familier with, that will start the hit counter and give interviewers a synopsis of skills and ideas on where to question you.

      In the body, under each job section, list specifics: "10 years of experience programming enterprise applications like XYZ, a Java based server system and RSTUV--the C++ middleware app. My roles have included the full software development cycle from initial design using industry standard object oriented analysis techniques, through base C/C++ and Java code writing; up to design reviews for re-factoring non-object aware C code into multi-platform (Solaris/AIX/HP-UX/Linux/Windows) capable Java."

      You probably get the idea. Your resume should be looked at every few months just for a word review. Pull out things you don't like doing and express the things you enjoy. Give the interviewers hooks to ask you questions in areas you are good at. If you're at the table with me I'll ask you questions about what you say you know and let you admit "I don't know" if I ask you something you've already indicated you're not strong in.

      I have real work to get done: it is much easier to spend a few minutes helping you understand something than hours rebuilding a machine you trashed because you didn't admit your limits.

    63. Re:Programming languages by torpor · · Score: 1

      Its a Markup Language, not 'meta-language' ... well, okay, so yeah HTML is meta- to SGML, okay...

      But still. It is a language, its just that it describes markup, not application.

      --
      ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    64. Re:Programming languages by 1iar_parad0x · · Score: 1
      I would agree it takes years to really know a language like C++. However, sometimes you have to tailor you're resume to HR. Apparently college grads (along with other applicants) are supposed to know everything. Gee, you've got 10 years of experience writing in assembly. I don't know, where looking for a geewhiz JSP developer. I don't think you know/could learn JSP. That's the problem. If I knew my resume was always going into the hand of an engineer, and that engineer would also consider the fact that some skills translate (i.e. C++ for Java, etc) I wouldn't have to put every langauge I've ever written some code in. Frankly, it's better than the manager's resume that reads "McDonalds: progressively grew company assets to billion dollar status while supervising department of 10 people in the quick-serve industry". Resume are bull, everybody knows it. Heck, when I am honest (don't know why I try), I'm the one who gets screwed.

      Secondly, take a look at this: example one
      example two

      I read an article about these two. I really haven't done a survey of nobel Laureates.
      My favorite quote about the first one was:
      Years later, when Caltech was offering me a faculty position, I confided that I did not have a very illustrious career as an undergraduate. To this remark the division chair replied "That's OK Doug, we are not hiring you to be an undergraduate."

      The latter spent a few years in the army before returning to grad school. Actually, he even considered going to get an MBA before deciding to return to school to finish his PhD. Apparently, he ended up going to Duke for his PhD, because his grades weren't good enough for the "good schools".

      --
      What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
    65. Re:Programming languages by 1iar_parad0x · · Score: 1

      I think it would be quite ironic that a prize created by a man who regretted inventing dynamite, would be given to a weapons designer.

      --
      What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
    66. Re:Programming languages by c · · Score: 1

      That's one of the implications of Turing completeness. If you can simulate a Turing machine, you must have an endless loop (or theoretically endless recursion).

      c.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    67. Re:Programming languages by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      So does +C+ increment it while you are using it then?

    68. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't give out Nobel prizes for "Most Novel New Method to Kill People".

      Didn't Nobel invent Dynomite, which could be a 'Novel Method to Kill People'

    69. Re:Programming languages by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > It is a full fledged programming language though.

      Right, that was my point. Its *purpose* may be page description (a form of
      markup), but while it is a special-purpose language (and therefore not really
      a general-purpose language) it nevertheless is a programming language.

      The same can be said of Inform (though its purpose is quite different). Zarf
      once wrote a (small, unpowerful, proof-of-concept-type) lisp interpreter in
      Inform, for (I assume) hack value, and other things have been done similarly
      in it (a tetris game, for example), but it is primarily used for just one
      thing, interactive fiction. Still, there's no question in anybody's mind
      about whether Inform is a programming language. It's not a *general-purpose*
      programming language (mostly because the platforms it compiles to don't have
      good general-purpose I/O, for portability reasons), but it's a programming
      language -- a special-purpose one. I'd put PostScript in the same category.

      As a side note, Zarf once threatened (in jest, I think) to do a work of
      interactive fiction in PostScript.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    70. Re:Programming languages by nehril · · Score: 1

      that's why my resume just has a "Languages" subsection under "Computer Skills," with all of the above thrown in. accurate, and satisfies the occasional anal pedantic human resources GuyMannDude I may come across.

    71. Re:Programming languages by brianjcain · · Score: 1
      Disclaimer: I know little about PostScript.
      I would not classify PostScript as a markup language merely because it is capable of formatting content. Perl has extensive support for formats, and as far as that goes even C has printf, but we don't call them markup languages,
      No, I wouldn't classify PostScript as a markup language either. I was trying to provide examples of document file formats, as a generic category. I figured PostScript to be most often used as a document format, but a good exception to an overly broad claim that "no document formats are programming languages." One might read that claim into my post, so I inserted PostScript as a distinction between "document file formats" and "markup languages".
    72. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      html is still a markup language. not a programming language.

      if you cannot see the difference, you should not be writing either

    73. Re:Programming languages by NickFitz · · Score: 1
      Things start getting a little murkier with XSL, since XSL does have very programmatic structures

      XSLT is indeed a programming language, that is, it is Turing equivalent. It is not a procedural or object-oriented language; it is declarative, making it similar to SQL. But any computable problem can be computed using XSLT, although obviously it is heavily biased towards its original purpose: transforming XML documents into another form, whether an XML document conforming to a different schema (such as XHTML), or any other textual representation.

      FWIW, you can write an XSLT program which produces output that has nothing at all to do with its input XML document. Something like:

      <?xml version="1.0"?>
      <xsl:stylesheet version="1.0"
      xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/X SL/Transform">

      <xsl:output method="text" />

      <xsl:template match="*|@*|text()">
      </xsl:template>
      <xsl:template match="/">
      <xsl:text>Hello World</xsl:text>
      </xsl:template>

      <xsl:template select

      will produce the standard example (once SlashCode's added spaces have been removed).

      --
      Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
    74. Re:Programming languages by NickFitz · · Score: 1

      Naughty boy re[plying to myself, but just to point out that the last line there should read

      </xsl:stylesheet>
      and that
      <xsl:template select

      is some garbage that somehow crept onto my clipboard :-)

      --
      Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
    75. Re:Programming languages by NickFitz · · Score: 1
      Turing Completeness doesn't really matter... a programming language has to beable to support the creation of Algorithms

      Support the implementation and execution of algorithms, surely? An algorithm is a mathematical entity, and many algorithms were described before anybody had even built or imagined a mechanical or electronic computer.

      And I think you'll find that being Turing complete means being able to support the implementation and execution of algorithms, so Turing completeness is what you are describing. (Google offers a definition.)

      Absolutely right about MLs. The day I can add 2 and 2 in HTML is the day it starts even approximating to being a programming language. That won't happen until Microsoft decides to produce HTML#, which will hopefully be never :-)

      --
      Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
    76. Re:Programming languages by Tukla · · Score: 1

      He has to make sure only the "correct" people die.

    77. Re:Programming languages by Nynaeve · · Score: 1

      Of course, YMMV. If you are fortunate enough to work for an enlightened employer, then I am happy for you.

      I wouldn't go so far as to say open-source projects don't count. There are a significant number of people paid to work on open-source projects. What I meant to imply was if no one is paying you for your work, then a company has no assurances you were held accountable for your assigned tasks. It might be true, but it has little merit unless you have someone to vouch for you.

      Don't take my word for it though. Ask a knowledgable recruiter or a consulting firm. That's where I got my information.

    78. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really don't know WTF you're talking about. HTML is a MARKUP language. It's used to indicate the semantics of a given bit of content. Period.

    79. Re:Programming languages by sdcharle · · Score: 1
      No, I think he was saying somebody with a GPA below 3.5 might have a hard time getting one of them fancy Nobel Prize thingies.

      He may have also said something about needing an above 3.5 GPA to be able to understand what he had written, but I think it's more a matter of not having a hair trigger or being too defensive. Not like anybody gives a rat's ass about GPAs once you've been out of school a couple years, anyway...

    80. Re:Programming languages by sdcharle · · Score: 1

      Yup, and the Nobel prize was something he did out of guilt over being responsible for TNT killing a lot of folks. I think he somehow convinced himself it would only be used for mining or something. We all practice denial sometimes.

    81. Re:Programming languages by sahala · · Score: 1
      With that being said, one "codes" HTML just as one "codes" C which in and of itself proves that in general, the use of HTML is considered to be a form of programming which makes HTML a (informal?) programming language, albeit and admittedly a lesser one.

      You code HTML the way you code C? Can you send me a snippet or 2 for a code read?

      Oh and by the way you should probably take a languages/compiler class before arguing what constitutes a programming language.

    82. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the term "markup" here should be treated as a closer relative to "annotation". When you "mark up" a document, you're adding some semantic meaning to text. HTML "markup" is the author describing the structure of a document. Here is a paragraph, here is a block quote, etc.

      A markup language should not normally carry any formatting instructions, though it sounds like you're using the term as though formatting is its purpose.

      PostScript is not a markup language because it has no facility to describe content. It's there simply to explain how the page should be rendered.

    83. Re:Programming languages by snapperOrgans · · Score: 1

      You may be cynical about it, but you are right ;-)

    84. Re:Programming languages by Wavicle · · Score: 1

      Turing Completeness doesn't really matter... a programming language has to beable to support the creation of Algorithms.

      Oddly enough it can be shown that any programming language that is able to carry out some algorithmic computation is Turing Complete... And more oddly therefore a turing machine can carry out the same computation.

      Since a turing machine is very, very simple, but just as powerful as any programming language at performing computation, it is useful as a way to measure whether or not something is a programming language. If the language is turing complete, it can carry out any computation any other turing complete language, or a turing machine, can. If I remember my computing theory correctly, there is no computable problem that cannot be solved by a turing machine but can be solved by some other means of computation, even non-deterministic methods computations.

      However, it's largely impractical to make a turing machine for which you can say "Hey, watch this turing machine calculate the value for the pixel in the mandelbrot set centered at some arbitrary location given on the tape". It can, however, be done (though turing machines have no function called "WritePixel").

      For hack value there are a couple programming languages that are turing complete and not much else. One is called "Brainf*ck" (with the * replaced by the vowel you may suspect) and the other called "Whitespace" (which I believe was an april fool's joke last year). People have, again just for hack value, written programs that perform some trivial task using these languages (mostly in Brainf*ck because white space is the single hardest language to read ever created).

      --
      Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
      Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
    85. Re:Programming languages by stanmann · · Score: 1

      If you know how to program, the languages that you have experience in is fairly meaningless although anyone who isn't a programmer wouldn't know that, so I would list all languages I have encountered and used...

      --
      Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
    86. Re:Programming languages by metamatic · · Score: 1

      Yes, but Perl often looks the same backwards.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    87. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You won't get a Nobel with this argument.

    88. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How come PERL and LERP are symmetric?

    89. Re:Programming languages by nytes · · Score: 1
      First, HTML is not a programming language.
      Microsoft might disagree with you: Method and apparatus for writing a Windows application in HTML
      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    90. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So while it can be called a "computer language", it is definitely not a "programming language".

    91. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok- fair enough. You belive HTML is a programming language. Please demonstrate how HTML is turing complete.

      Put up or shut up.

    92. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "guy had a GPA of less than 3.5"


      A high GPA in college just means someone didn't challenge themselves. It's not hard to get a 4.0 if you only take classes where you already know all the content. It was a common trick of pre-meds.


      Even things like SAT scores are a better measure, 'cause they're harder to manipulate.

    93. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Mining or something"
      That's what atomic bombs are for too: http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa050300 a.htm
      Note the last paragraph about using them to dig canals.

    94. Re:Programming languages by Bendebecker · · Score: 1

      No, to do that you would need to use synchonized threads.

      --
      There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
      most of us won't be able to afford it.
      -- Lemmy
    95. Re:Programming languages by Bendebecker · · Score: 1

      Isn't PHP as scripting langauage and not a programming langauge?

      --
      There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
      most of us won't be able to afford it.
      -- Lemmy
    96. Re:Programming languages by Laur · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. The $200 billion spent on the war in Iraq is money which won't be spent on new programs and R&D. Defense contractors benefit the most when things are tense, but no actual fighting is going on. The Cold War years were good to defense contractor.

      --
      When you lose something irreplaceable, you don't mourn for the thing you lost, you mourn for yourself. - Harpo Marx
    97. Re:Programming languages by Chuq · · Score: 1

      Somehow, I don't think many defense contractors would want to hire someone who intends to win the Nobel Peace prize.

      I'm surprised that no-one has pointed out who the nobel prize is named after and what he invented.

      --
      - Chuq
    98. Re:Programming languages by danielsfca2 · · Score: 1

      I remember the Nobel story just as you described it. I do generally agree that Nobel wasn't targeting the program for killing devices, but I'm sure there have been some people who won it for great technological advances developed for the military, since that's where many of the best technological advances come from. Advances like, say, this Internet, to which you and I are currently connected.

      You have a point that it's a bit incongruous, though, since most of the Nobel prizes awarded are for non-evil achievements.

    99. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know a few languages really, really well. I'd say C, C++

      There's "really, really well" and there's "Really Really Well". Beware - some interviewers love a challenge. Some questions off the top of my head:

      What's the syntax for bitfields in C++?
      Describe "placement new".
      How do you call a class member function pointer? ..not to mention asking about templates, STL, etc, etc..

    100. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean Alfred, the man who invented a substance handy in mining enterprises and their ilk and who almost took the formula with him in his grave because he suspected malicious people would get their hands on it?

    101. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anybody who keeps to a strictly modest resume simply hasn''t looked for work in the last three years

      I do, and I have, and I got the first job I applied for.

    102. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A programming language needs data structures.

      Er perhaps you should tell that to the designer of BASIC.

    103. Re:Programming languages by Zarf · · Score: 1

      Support the implementation and execution of algorithms, surely? An algorithm is a mathematical entity, and many algorithms were described before anybody had even built or imagined a mechanical or electronic computer.

      And I think you'll find that being Turing complete means being able to support the implementation and execution of algorithms, so Turing completeness is what you are describing. (Google offers a definition.)


      You should read your own link.

      If you can add 2 and 2 in a language how is that Turing Complete? It is possible to imagine a language where you can't do much more than simple computations (allowing you to program in a way) but you can't solve the set of all computable problems. For example a language which doesn't allow loops or recursion.

      A language without loops or recursion would allow for simple computations that might be thought of as programming... maybe... but not be Turing Complete.

      --
      [signature]
    104. Re:Programming languages by IroNick · · Score: 1

      Hmm... I'd like to say I know C backward and forwards. I guess spelling it right is a fair start.

    105. Re:Programming languages by Zarf · · Score: 1

      Although I know about BF and Whitespace, I was thinking along the lines of something I'd heard arguing against the Turing model of computation. It was brought up in this discussion that Turing himself felt the model was incomplete. The example given... showing that Turing derived models of computation are incomplete... was of user decision input to a program where the result of computation depended on the user's decision. The presenter argued that no facility was present in a Turing Machine to represent a User interaction or user decision.

      So my thinking was: If there is a set called Turing Computable... there is also a set that is Turing non-Computable. If user interaction is not in the set of things in the Turing Computable set AND modern computer programming languages can cope with some of this set... A language which expresses those Turing Non-Computable problems yet doesn't express the whole set of Turing Computable problems must exist.

      Therefore, it is possible to have a programming that isn't Turing Complete... yet is a programming language.

      It's an extrodinary claim I suppose. But this is just slashdot and I'm just goofing off. I was just allowing for the possibility someone might implement a language that could express some algorithms but not all algorithms in a given set.

      So if our hypothetical Markup "programmers" can add 2 and 2 but can't compute a division or Taylor expansion series then you get to bestow the title "programmer" on them anyhow. However, they can't represent 2 and 2 and no markup language makes provision for variables, computations, or calculations of any kind. If one did it wouldn't be markup anymore... it would be PostScript... it would be a rendering language.

      --
      [signature]
    106. Re:Programming languages by NickFitz · · Score: 1
      If you can add 2 and 2 in a language how is that Turing Complete?

      Well, I did say

      The day I can add 2 and 2 in HTML is the day it starts even approximating to being a programming language

      Clearly the need to be able to alter control flow is necessary for Turing completeness. I was trying more to make the opposite point, that HTML can't be used to do a simple calculation of this kind, and thus can't be considered even remotely to be a programming language. Sorry if I failed to make myself clear.

      Totally OT, I notice that our user #s are only 114 apart. That means you must have beaten me here by a couple of days :-)

      --
      Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
    107. Re:Programming languages by Zarf · · Score: 1

      Clearly the need to be able to alter control flow is necessary for Turing completeness.

      Yeah, so I was making a very nit-picky point. It's a small point... but an important one. So I agree HTML or any ML can't be called a programming language but because they can't express any algorithms at all let alone being Turing Complete.

      Totally OT, I notice that our user #s are only 114 apart. That means you must have beaten me here by a couple of days :-)

      Ironically this isn't my first account, it's just the one I remember the password for! :-O

      --
      [signature]
    108. Re:Programming languages by sdcharle · · Score: 1

      Yes, atomic bombs are for mining AND defending the Earth from an Asteroid the size of Texas! Only sick freaks would ever think of using them to kill people...

    109. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I grow weary of seeing lots of young 20-something applicants fresh out of school who claim they have excellent coding skills and then proceed to list about ten different languages including HTML."

      Hmmm... maybe it's because they've used all ten, and are DESPERATE TO FIND A JOB; so they list everything they can!

      Have you not been paying attention to the economy?

    110. Re:Programming languages by armb · · Score: 1

      > listed the specialized language ... only had passing knowledge of it.
      > They spent this entire time building credible expertise in the language.
      > I wonder how often this happens.

      Listing things they have only passing knowledge of - very frequent.
      Taking time out to actually learn it before starting the job - very rare.

      --
      rant
    111. Re:Programming languages by Millennium · · Score: 1

      If HTML is a programming language, then explain to me how to create a simple for loop using nothing but HTML. Or something even easier: assign a value to a variable (this being one of the litmus tests of programming language). JavaScript may not be used; that is a separate language, and is not being disputed.

      People go on about whether or not HTML is a programming language, as though the fact could actually be debated. It's quite simple, really. Give me a while loop and an assignment statement using only HTML (no JavaScript allowed), and you will have proven beyond any form of debate that HTML is a programming language. If you cannot do this, then HTML is not a programming language.

      "Element/attribute/property structure" is irrelevant. There are programming languages with such a structure, such as XSLT, but that isn't what makes XSLT a programming language.

      "Interpretation" is also irrelevent. Plenty of programming languages are interpreted: Java is probably the most famous example (scripting language also count, depending on who you ask, but no one calls Java a scripting language).

      So, I challenge you: show me a while loop or an if statement in HTML. If you can't do this directly, then no problem; show me a structure which will do the same thing and I will be satisfied. But remember, you must only use HTML; you cannot use Javacript, PHP, or anything like that. Do this, and you will shut me up.

      Learn by doing. Do by working. Embelished resumes are a fact of life.

      For you, evidently, they are, and have to be. for most of the rest of the world, however, embellished resumes are a fact of life.

    112. Re:Programming languages by Black+Rabbit · · Score: 1

      I know somebody who had on his resume, when asked about his goals and aspirations, something along the same lines. His answer: Master of time, space and the Universe. When asked about it on an interview, his answer was simple...if you're going to play, play to win! He got the position.

    113. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, why again did we attack Iraq? According to the President, so that Iraq couldn't use its supposed "Weapons of Mass Destruction" on us.

    114. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are aware of why the Nobel peace prize was created, right?

      Guilt. Pure and simple.

      He created TNT to blast tunnels through mountains not to kill people. It was the application of his invention to kill people that drove him to create the Nobel peace prize.

      "According to the will of Alfred Nobel the prize should be awarded "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between the nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses"."

    115. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haven't you ever heard of peace through superior firepower?

    116. Re:Programming languages by Tangential · · Score: 1

      I don't know. I would guess that developing a fearsome enough weapon, with such severe impact that it induced peace worldwide could get you a peace prize. Something that had the opposite effect of viagra on a massive scale might do it.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
    117. Re:Programming languages by booch · · Score: 1
      It takes years to learn how to program WELL in a complex language like C++.

      Once you know how to program well, picking up a new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, except in the most baroque cases.

      I'd definitely consider C++ to be baroque. It's definitely complex and "feature-encrusted". I used to like C++, but the template rules are just too complex to be useful without using the language every day. I remember in the early 1990s, C++ fans used to berate Ada for having complex rules, but now C++ is much worse than Ada ever was. Look how long it took compiler vendors to get templates right. I still think a subset of C++ (without templates) is useful, but I'm becoming more of the opinion that "RAD" languages like Python are the way to go for application programming, with C/C++ for OS and core libraries.

      --
      Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
    118. Re:Programming languages by Wavicle · · Score: 1

      The presenter argued that no facility was present in a Turing Machine to represent a User interaction or user decision.

      User interaction with a program is input into an algorithm. The difference between a computer program and a Turing Machine is the way in which that input enters the computation. In the Turing Machine, input exists on the tape before the machine begins execution. Using the "turing machine has no peripheral input" argument does not violate the the model.

      This may seem strange if you aren't accustomed to an abstraction like this, but the claim is that if the same input is given to both the computer and the turing machine, there is no algorithm that can be done on the computer which cannot be done on the turing machine. How that input comes into existence (whether written onto the tape, or entered by a user) is irrelevant.

      So my thinking was: If there is a set called Turing Computable... there is also a set that is Turing non-Computable. If user interaction is not in the set of things in the Turing Computable set AND modern computer programming languages can cope with some of this set... A language which expresses those Turing Non-Computable problems yet doesn't express the whole set of Turing Computable problems must exist.

      That is a good start on the reasoning behind the computing theory. There is a set of problems which are Turing Non-Computable, the term commonly used is "undecidable".

      The oft-used standard undecidable problem is the halting problem:

      You would think that a very clever compiler could analyze the source code input and detect the existence of infinite loops (meaning the program being compiled would get into a state from which it would never halt). If such a compiler could be written, it could then be run on itself, and check to see if it would halt if given itself as input. You can prove that compiler cannot be written (it would halt if the answer was "it would not halt" - a contradiction). If you can write this compiler, get your application for grad school in now, you've got a great Ph.D. Thesis!

      --
      Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
      Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
    119. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's good code in Notes? I think you've blown your cover.

    120. Re:Programming languages by Zarf · · Score: 1

      The oft-used standard undecidable problem is the halting problem

      Somehow humans can avoid this problem. If there was a human who decided something for a computer that was undecidable then how is that representable in a Turing machine?

      The problem with user interaction is that a user can interrupt or alter the flow of the program... how is that represented in a Turing machine? Do we just decide that there are hypothetical tapes that contain the future decisions of the user? The tapes would have to contain representations that meant "user decides if program is running too long" or "user interrupts" ?

      --
      [signature]
    121. Re:Programming languages by Wavicle · · Score: 1

      If there was a human who decided something for a computer that was undecidable then how is that representable in a Turing machine?

      I'm not sure I follow, but the answer I think is there was a stop symbol in the input (the user hitting ctrl-c to halt the machine).

      The problem with user interaction is that a user can interrupt or alter the flow of the program... how is that represented in a Turing machine?

      I think the issue is you're mixing when and how input comes in with the fact that it does. Regardless of when or how, the program is going to have to do some computation with it. The turing thesis says given the same input, a turing machine could be designed to implement the same algorithm and arrive at the same result. You might be confusing "the user just pressed the 'a' button" with "the input 'a' was provided". If the "when" is important, then that is an additional parameter of the input. If the "how" is important, that is one more parameter of the input.

      It's sometimes difficult to equate the model with an actual CPU... after all, a CPU doesn't have to just write to memory, a CPU could write to an I/O port. If you view memory as your tape you may think this is a flaw in the model, that the CPU is more powerful than a Turing Machine. But this isn't so. Writing to an I/O Port is a form of output, the turing machine's tape is a generalization of input and output.

      --
      Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
      Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
    122. Re:Programming languages by Zarf · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure I follow, but the answer I think is there was a stop symbol in the input (the user hitting ctrl-c to halt the machine).

      The user observes the computer and interacts with it based with what they observed the computer doing. This is not captured in a Turing machine model. It is more than non-determinism or input sequence... an outside action is modifying the running of the machine based on what it sees the machine doing. I think that is significantly different from a fixed input set while it is possible to imagine a tape that recorded all user interactions into the future... such a model fails to demonstrate the user is actively carrying out their own "computations" based on what it observes the machine doing. That interaction can be spontaneous and non-sensical.

      I'm muddling through This Paper trying to digest exactly what it was driving at. I'm not advocating anything silly ...that the Turing machine is somehow invalid... just that the model is incomplete (the classic model at least I guess). I believe the term "Oracle Turing Machine" sums up my point.

      BTW: most of the architectures I've worked on do a "memory mapping" to devices. That means the CPU only writes to memory that is normally viewed as a one-dimensional array. I think there is one architecture that actually views memory in sort-of two dimensions by the virtue of extending it's origonal instruction set from 8 bits to 32 bits and reading either a 32bit word or an 8bit word depending on the specific instruction... but I think that was mainly an academic exercise.

      Sorry if I lead you down too many rabbit trails but I'm just goofing off here on Slashdot and don't usually strive to put too much work into my posts. Thanks for the exercise!

      --
      [signature]
    123. Re:Programming languages by sql*kitten · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, if you have a good general education in programming with a lot of hacking experience in a few languages, then you sure won't find it very difficult to pick up C#, even if you only have passing familiarity with its syntax.

      That may have been true once. Back in the day, programming was 90% about the language and 10% about APIs. Now, it's 95% APIs and only 5% about the language. A programmer expert in C and OpenGL would be utterly out of his depth writing C and OCI (and vice versa). These days, languages are just the glue between API calls.

      (Note: this is true for corporate application development, probably not so true for device driver writers... YMMV).

    124. Re:Programming languages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being a defence contractor presumably you produce some defensive goods too. My mate worked on a portable radar system for Thales. I'm not suggesting that he's in the line for a peace prize but it does save lives. There are prizes other than the peace one too.

    125. Re:Programming languages by Funksaw · · Score: 1

      Yikes. BELOW 3.5 is a problem hiring?

      What if the kid just wasn't good at a particular non-job related subject?

  4. Well... by Violet+Null · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We all know that the HR people put the impossible into their resumes (5 years of Java back in '96, anyone)?

    And we also all know that HR does keyword searches on resumes, throwing out any that don't have the keyword.

    So why would't turnabout be fair play?

    1. Re:Well... by magnum3065 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I've seen plenty of places that want 5 years experience with XML. Now that XML has actually been out barely more than 5 years, this isn't impossible, but I definately saw this before XML had reached it's 5th birthday.

      Of course I still have no idea why they think you need 5 years to learn XML, as on it's own XML isn't really much of anything. Now, if they expected a certain amount of experience with particular XML-related technologies that might be reasonable. Of course I still think a lot of these "X years of experience" are often pretty dumb. I mean, why should you pick a person who's had 5 years of experience with Java, and nothing else, over someone who has 10 years of experience with C++, but only 1 or two years of Java experience. Learning new languages isn't particularly challenging once you have a good fundamental understanding of programming.

    2. Re:Well... by MarcOiL · · Score: 1

      I once had an interview were they demanded 5 years of experience in PHP... this was back when PHP had just got to version 3, and I tried to explain to them that no one had so much experience, much less in real-world use.

      They didn't hire me. I'm better off now, by the way, as they dot-bombed.

      --
      If I have posted far, it is because I replied to giants.
  5. Time travel... by eyeball · · Score: 5, Funny

    5 Years experience administrating Windows 2000 server.

    --

    _______
    2B1ASK1
    1. Re:Time travel... by Gudlyf · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What's dumber than having that on your resume is having a job posting asking for that! Too many times I've seen it happen.

      Hmmm, then again maybe they're onto something in weeding out those who would lie on their resume to get the job.

      --
      Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
    2. Re:Time travel... by lfm_the_couch · · Score: 1

      I asked one, am one. Don't see many fellow workmen on /. though ...

    3. Re:Time travel... by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      That's not as bad as the companies that are looking for so much experience that it's not humanly possible to achieve it.

      One listing I saw recently had 8 years of this and 5 years of that, etc, for a total of 39 years of experience.

      Yeah, right. I had 5 years of Windows 2000 programming experience back in the mid 60's.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    4. Re:Time travel... by kabocox · · Score: 1

      Nope. Those are made by HR folks. The IT folks will never see the resumes unless they read like they exceed the job posting.

    5. Re:Time travel... by _iris · · Score: 1

      In late 2001 I saw a job posting that was looking for someone with 3-5 experience with .Net.

    6. Re:Time travel... by foistboinder · · Score: 1

      20 years programming C++

      (FWIW, I actually 15 years of C++)

    7. Re:Time travel... by dmayle · · Score: 1

      I was in the beta program. I have five years of experience administrating Windows 2000 server.

    8. Re:Time travel... by DA-MAN · · Score: 1

      How many years of your life have you spent shitting?
      How many years of your life have you spent eating?
      How many years of your life have you spent breathing?

      Answer to all 3 is probably all your life, however this doesn't mean that you have lived three times your age!

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    9. Re:Time travel... by EllF · · Score: 1

      Check your logic. Now, breathing, yes -- you've spent every living moment of your live respirating, more or less. Howevever, you've only spent PART of your life on the toilet, and part of it in front of food. You have not "spent" years doing those things -- even if you've been doing them sporadically for years.

      --
      We who were living are now dying
      With a little patience
    10. Re:Time travel... by Kevin+Burtch · · Score: 1


      I've screened resumes that listed 20 years of Solaris experience (back in '96-'97)... I was tempted to ask how he compensated for the temporal anomalies.

      Sad part is, I've seen the same thing (too many times to count) on job postings! Ones that specifically state to not contact them unless you meet their minimum requirements.

      --
      - Preferences: Solaris 10 (servers), Ubuntu (desktops), Solaris 11 (personal servers) -
    11. Re:Time travel... by Webmoth · · Score: 1

      Good thing you don't have "proper use of closing HTML tags" on your resume.

      --
      Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
    12. Re:Time travel... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sentence no verb. :-)

    13. Re:Time travel... by sql*kitten · · Score: 1

      5 Years experience administrating Windows 2000 server.

      Early builds of Win2K were certainly available in 1998... so yes, someone really could have 5 years experience.

  6. Self Appraisal Goal List by SmoothOne · · Score: 5, Funny

    Not exactly a resume, but during our evaluations every year we have to fill out a form, which amoung other things asks us to list our goals for the year. In an attempt to see if my manager actually reads these things, I listed one of my goals as "world domination". Needless to say this went unnoticed for three years. When he finally did recognize it and questioned me on it, I replied that I didn't like to set my goals too low.

    --
    Fish do not make good desert travel companions.
    1. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by kurosawdust · · Score: 4, Funny

      I did the same thing on the application for enrollment to MIT. Right next to "name", they had a space marked "What do you like to be called?". So feeling mischievous and lamenting the fact that I dont have much of a nicknameable name, I put "Your Highness." Needless to say I didnt think I was going to be accepted in the first place, but I was a tad surprised when I received a bill from them in the mail; I called them up to ask about it and told them that I dont know why I had gotten the bill, since I had already paid the application fee, and they said "We know."

    2. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by fm6 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      That's reminiscent of something Alan Turing did during WW II. He wanted to learn to shoot a rifle, so he joined one of those voluntary rearguard units. Once he'd learned to shoot, he quit. Not usually allowed, but when they came to arrest him, he just pointed to the form he'd signed. Where it said, "Do you agree to server for the duration of the war?" he'd written, "No." Of course you were supposed to write "yes," but nobody ever checked.

      How is that world domination thing going?

    3. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...

      I don't get it. "we know?"

    4. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by TechnoPops · · Score: 1

      I believe when he wrote "already paid the application fee," he meant "*just* paid the applications fee." Makes a lot more sense that way.

      --
      "Each time you smile, it'll only last awhile. Life may be scary, but it's only temporary."
    5. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it implies that it was an additional surcharge brought upon by the fact that the "creative addition" was so insulting.

    6. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's not nicknameable about "kurosawdust"?

    7. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Turing was in the Rear Guard? That's kind of funny...

    8. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by dalutong · · Score: 1

      It means they wanted him to pay again -- sort of like a punishment.

      --

      What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
    9. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by psilosopher256 · · Score: 1

      Hahahahah! Everyone else who replied to this is silly. The point is, it's the Royal We.

      --
      ---Psilosopher
    10. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by mccormick · · Score: 0

      This is of course a shallow comment, but I also one wonder how many people get it. I mean, it's not rocket science, but still..

      --
      Pete
    11. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Heh
      It was my first smile of the morning :-)

    12. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i thought everyone knew Turing liked the pretty boys.

    13. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i still dont get it ...
      can someone make a i18n version of this ?

      and i thought americans hated the monarchy =)

    14. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by mge · · Score: 1

      A particular cliche attributed to the current british monarch is "We are...." when refering to her self. i.e. "We are not amused", "We are pleased to announce.." etc.

      The school is punning on this; His Royal Highness (the parent poster) not only has to pay for himself but also pay fro the extra person(s) implied in "We".

      Sire,
      My apologies to Your Majesty for having the temerity to suggest your joke was so lame that it needed explaination...

    15. Re:Self Appraisal Goal List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      _we_ pays for 2 persons

      k got it
      thanks for the explanation :D

  7. ASR-33 printout by Crash+Gordon · · Score: 2, Funny

    I once ran off a batch of resumes on an ASR-33 Teletype -- no lowercase, crappy canary-yellow roll-feed newsprint paper, etc.

    One of those resumes got me a decent job...

    1. Re:ASR-33 printout by awtbfb · · Score: 1


      When I was in high school, supposedly someone (friend of a friend thing) got into the local state University by filling out the application form with an orange crayon.

      I actually buy this story since large Universities get a lot of applications and I'm sure the endless forms start blending together.

    2. Re:ASR-33 printout by cthon · · Score: 1

      Now if you had given them the punched paper tape and gotten the job I would be REALY impressed... To bad you didn't have the ASR-38 same machine with upper and lower case... (First machine I got online with... you don't know slow aonnections until you've used a 110 Baud tty to access Ward and Randy's CBBS)

    3. Re:ASR-33 printout by N2UX · · Score: 1

      Heh. I have an ASR-33 in the basement. Maybe I'll use it for my next Resume.

    4. Re:ASR-33 printout by NickFitz · · Score: 1

      In the '70s I had a French teacher give me 200 lines (write out "I must not dick about" or some such 200 times). I went off to the PDP 8/e, wrote a 3 line BASIC program and waited for the TT to do its stuff.

      When I handed it in, he said, "Good God, did you type it all?" Once I managed to make him understand, he was so amazed ("Wow, you wrote a computer program?") that he let me off.

      --
      Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
    5. Re:ASR-33 printout by Bendebecker · · Score: 1

      I've been meaining to write my resume out on the old PDP cards...

      --
      There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
      most of us won't be able to afford it.
      -- Lemmy
    6. Re:ASR-33 printout by duren686 · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah? I wrote my resumes in the snow. By walking around in my Daddy's pyjamas. Eight and a half by fifteen miles, it was, uphill for every letter!

      --
      Y2K Compliant since the late 1890s
  8. Ph. D. (subject to litigation) by Random+Hamster · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is the bizarrest thing I have heard of - mind you, I have also seen software misspelt (as 'Soft Ware' and 'SoftWare')

    1. Re:Ph. D. (subject to litigation) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just curious: did the applicant who mentioned SoftWare list the company...maybe a company once known as MicroSoft? :-)

  9. Obligatory Jab by Trak · · Score: 0

    Anyone else come across funny/pathetic attempts to improve a resume?

    Yeah, I once saw a guy post to slashdot about it.

  10. Pulling Cable by drightler · · Score: 1

    I once worked with a guy who was still in technical college who had listed as a skill on his resume: "Capible of runing thousands of feet of network cable".

    I always found it funny for some reason.

    --

    blah blah blah....
    drightler@technicalogic.com
    1. Re:Pulling Cable by ivanmarsh · · Score: 1

      You have any idea how much some companies charge to pull cable?

    2. Re:Pulling Cable by kayen_telva · · Score: 1

      yeah, but do they "runing" it too ? Id say this guy has em beat hands down.

    3. Re:Pulling Cable by s88 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought it was funny too when i mis-read it as "ruining" instead of "running".

    4. Re:Pulling Cable by ivanmarsh · · Score: 1

      Doh! Okay... I missed that... that's funny.

  11. Not as dumb as you think... by lynx_user_abroad · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The tactic of including something which obviously isn't right just to get attention is a well proven strategy.

    Here's one to watch for: watch for television advertisements where a product is pictured as reflected in a mirror, but the product name isn't mirror imaged. The eye will be drawn to the product name instinctively as the mind is saying "shouldn't that be backwards?"

    Some people consider a Resume to be a sales tool; an advertisement for themselves; and in keeping with our long-standing tradition of skirting the truth when advertising, consider it more important to get noticed than to be truthful.

    After all, the truthful ones who don't get noticed stand less of a chance at getting the job (or making the sale) than the untruthful ones which make it to the interview.

    --

    The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.

  12. Obviously not enough by Datoyminaytah · · Score: 2, Informative

    > ...knowledge of 'C, C+, and C++' on his resume.
    > He had worked in C and C++ and just figured
    > there had to be a C+...

    He obviously had not worked with either long enough to understand the humor in the name of "C++".

    --
    assert(birth_date<time-86400)
    1. Re:Obviously not enough by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      You sure of that? At uni, we referred to the language we did everyday utility programming in as "C+". Basically, C with the function overloading, one-line comments, iostream library, and other useful features from C++, but without any attempt at object-oriented programming.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:Obviously not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So basically you did all of the beginner shit in C++? I hope you didn't pay too much for that class. You would have been fine with just C.

    3. Re:Obviously not enough by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      So basically you did all of the beginner shit in C++? I hope you didn't pay too much for that class. You would have been fine with just C.

      That wasn't for class. I'd hoped including the phrase "utility programming" would have made that clear. This was the everyday programming to automate a task that just about every programmer does.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    4. Re:Obviously not enough by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

      understand the humor in the name of "C++"

      That in itself would make a good interview question...

    5. Re:Obviously not enough by Bendebecker · · Score: 1

      Too bad he didn't bother listing B as well. Created in 1969, ancestor of C which reaced release in 71. see that on a resume and you know he's lying. I don't think it ever got out beyond the research lab taht created it and there probably fewer than 100 ppl on earth who could program this instant in it without an extensive review.

      --
      There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
      most of us won't be able to afford it.
      -- Lemmy
  13. 'Slashdot Editor'. by Mordant · · Score: 2, Funny

    That one's good for hours of laughs! ;>

    1. Re:'Slashdot Editor'. by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 3, Funny


      Only if you list it twice!

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
  14. Ah, good ol' Welles by Txiasaeia · · Score: 4, Funny

    A friend of mine applied for an IT job with "DoubleplusC" as a programming language. Needless to say, after explaining the humour to the interviewers he got the job. (Soulless bastards they turned out to be)

    --
    Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
    1. Re:Ah, good ol' Welles by heliocentric · · Score: 1

      Oh, well, sure, it was an IT job. If it has been a position for say.. a fireman, then things would have been different.

      --
      Wheeeee
    2. Re:Ah, good ol' Welles by LittleBigLui · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, if your friend is the one called Welles then just disregard this comment, but the author of the doubleplusfamous novel "1984" was actually George Orwell.

      --
      Free as in mason.
    3. Re:Ah, good ol' Welles by Bendebecker · · Score: 1

      Do you mean ++C or ++(++C) ?

      --
      There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
      most of us won't be able to afford it.
      -- Lemmy
  15. On a related note... by Datoyminaytah · · Score: 4, Funny

    Once, when I was being interviewed simultaneously by one technical person, and one non-technical person, the non-technical person, reading my resume and finding acronyms and other technical jargon he was unfamiliar with, asked me:

    "So, tell me, did you implement LRF 1.0 in project xyz?"

    I replied that I had not. I told him I was not familiar with LRF, and asked what it was.

    "Little Rubber Feet. It's a bulls**t filter."

    --
    assert(birth_date<time-86400)
    1. Re:On a related note... by dbirchall · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A few jobs back, I was the longest-employed member of a development group, and as such had to be on all the interviews. Our standard question was "What do you think of VI?" (pronounced "vee eye"). Needless to say, any answers involving Visual InterDev resulted in immediate disqualification...

    2. Re:On a related note... by NickFitz · · Score: 1
      any answers involving Visual InterDev resulted in immediate disqualification...

      Such as "Do you mean the Unix text editor or Visual Interdev"?

      --
      Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
    3. Re:On a related note... by Punk+Walrus · · Score: 1
      I was set to interview potential applicants for a networking data analyst, along with one of my coworkers. We got some winners.

      One was some guy who had a two-page resume, half of the first page was how he was a Unix admin, and had mastered the "man" command system. Half a page. For knowing how to use "man." The kicker was we asked him, "Say you are at a Unix prompt, and want to know what a command is used for. How would you find that out?" Silence. Bzzzzzt!

      Under the "I wish I'd thought of that," one guy said he had a Ph.D in philosophy, and his title was "Dr. Smith" (forgot his real name). Turns out, my coworker minored in philosophy, and was excited to met another philosophy grad... but he was suspicious, so he asked some basic question that someone who took Philosophy 101 might know. I forgot what it was (I took astromomy instead), but it was something like, "Can you give me three examples of similarities or differences between the Socratic Method and Scientific Method approach to actions?" Silence. Bzzzzzt!

      I thought the last one was unfair, but my coworker said if he didn't know the answer to that, he probably faked his doctorate. The candidate also failed other questions, and we didn't hire him, but I have always joked, "Man, you give the HARDEST interviews... next you'll be asking candiates to quote likes from 'Three Gentlemen of Verona,' or something!"

    4. Re:On a related note... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our standard question was "What do you think of VI?"

      i would jump to the table, strip ma shirt and give a big laugh....
      then on a fast move i would stop right there ... and stare deeply on my interviewer's eyes...

      and slowly on a tune of Addicted to Love i would chant

      You press the keys with no effect,
      Your mode is not correct.
      The screen blurs, your fingers shake;
      You forgot to press escape.
      Can't insert, can't delete,
      Cursor keys won't repeat.
      You try to quit, but can't leave,
      An extra "bang" is all you need.

      You think it's neat to type an "a" or an "i"--
      Oh yeah?
      You won't look at emacs, no you'd just rather die
      You know you're gonna have to face it;
      You're addicted to vi!

      You edit files one at a time;
      That doesn't seem too out of line?
      You don't think of keys to bind--
      A meta key would blow your mind.
      H, J, K, L? You're not annoyed?
      Expressions must be a Joy!
      Just press "f", or is it "t"?
      Maybe "n", or just "g"?

      Oh--You think it's neat to type an "a" or an "i"--
      Oh yeah?
      You won't look at emacs, no you'd just rather die
      You know you're gonna have to face it;
      You're addicted to vi!

      Might as well face it,
      You're addicted to vi!

      You press the keys without effect,
      Your life is now a wreck.
      What a waste! Such a shame!
      And all you have is vi to blame.

      Oh--You think it's neat to type an "a" or an "i"--
      Oh yeah?
      You won't look at emacs, no you'd just rather die
      You know you're gonna have to face it;
      You're addicted to vi!

      Might as well face it,
      You're addicted to vi!

      Copyright 1989, by Chuck Musciano. All Rights Reserved


      of course the short answer would be
      "VI is perfect"
      "ah? beg your pardon?"
      "have a pen? i can explain..." =)

      ZZ
      xpto

    5. Re:On a related note... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thats called false sense of power

  16. Pathetic in the "I'm such a geek" kinda way... by ChaseTec · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Usually in the extra skills/info section I like to add a little blurb about how I like to play around with writing Operating Systems. It's one of the few things in todays world that instantly lets people know that I'm really a computer geek and not just a normal person working in IT. It was probably what got me the interview for my current job.

    --
    My Hello World is 512 bytes. But it's also a valid Fat12 boot sector, Fat12 file reader, and Pmode routine.
    1. Re:Pathetic in the "I'm such a geek" kinda way... by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      Part of what got my my job was the fact that I'd started programming on a C64. Nothing to do with the actual job, other than that the company's first product was written for the C64.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:Pathetic in the "I'm such a geek" kinda way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like to add a little blurb about how I like to play around with writing Operating Systems
      And why is that funny?
      Someone mod this poser down, please

  17. My big accomplishment was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    handing in my TPS Reports on time.

    1. Re:My big accomplishment was by ted_nugent · · Score: 1

      But did remember to include the new cover sheet?

      --

      Free the West Memphis Three!

    2. Re:My big accomplishment was by Bendebecker · · Score: 1

      um... yeah.

      --
      There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
      most of us won't be able to afford it.
      -- Lemmy
  18. 2 funny ones by wowbagger · · Score: 4, Funny

    First funny one: we had a guy list as an accomplishment on his resume (for a DSP software engineer) his marriage to his wife.

    Second funny one: A friend of mine was part of the team interviewing folks where he works. During one inDUHvidual's interview, my friend closed his notebook and put down his pen 5 minutes into the interview. The higher muckitymucks noticed this, and after the interview said to him "OK, you noticed something we didn't - what was it?"

    The inDUHvidual kept talking about how she had worked at "bom-BUH-deer" aerospace here in town. Yes, she was really a good worker at "bom-BUH-deer".

    Bombardier is a Canadian company, and is pronounced according to French rules - "bom-BAR-dee-AY". And they are VERY clear about that to their employees.

    1. Re:2 funny ones by jargonCCNA · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's by Quebecois rules (The French and the Quebecois speak different kinds of French) and it's pronounced closer to "bum-BARGE-yay"

      --
      Matthew G P Coe
      http://mgpcoe.blogspot.com/
    2. Re:2 funny ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Look at me. Jerking off in the shower. This will be the high point of my day.

      Gee, thanks for that. Now looking at you will be the high point of my day.

    3. Re:2 funny ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats an "American Beauty" quote, from the opening monologue.

    4. Re:2 funny ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might be possible that she knew how it was pronounced by her employers and coworkers but felt the need to speak with a more familiar pronunciation of it to you rather than pronouncing it the way you illustrated and then having to explain herself.

      Sometimes it's easier to say things the way everyone around you does so that you can just convey them without having to explain everything when they stop you and say "but that's not how you say it" or "what do you mean?" or "what is that?".

      Besides, she should have been refused just for the fact that she worked for a CANADIAN company, if you want my opinion.

    5. Re:2 funny ones by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      is pronounced according to French rules - "bom-BAR-dee-AY

      Actually, it properly sounds like, "bom-bard-YAY" (emphasis on the last syllable, no "dee" if you do it right).

      A great TV ad I once saw was some interviewee repeatedly calling the interviewer (pronounced) "Mr. Dumbass". The name was Mr. Dumas.

      Very funny.

    6. Re:2 funny ones by Etyenne · · Score: 1

      I'm not quite sure if you are joking or not ... any, it's definitely not "bum-BARGE-yay" and definitely "bomb-hard-yay".

      FIY, the difference between the French spoken in Quebec vs in France is compable to the difference in English spoken in the USofA vs England.

      --
      :wq
    7. Re:2 funny ones by jargonCCNA · · Score: 1

      Well, I guess it depends on where you're coming from... bum-barge-yay is close to how my family pronounces it... bomb-bard-yay, maybe?

      --
      Matthew G P Coe
      http://mgpcoe.blogspot.com/
    8. Re:2 funny ones by tarsus · · Score: 1

      Pretty dumb reason not to hire someone. She probably got so used to people misprounouncing it that she gave up correcting them and/or she didn't want to seem disrepectful by correcting the person doing the interview, who, in this case would be in a superior position.

    9. Re:2 funny ones by wowbagger · · Score: 1

      No, read it again.

      It was the INTERVIEWEE who consistently mispronounced the company name.

      As in, "There is no way in hell I really worked there, as I would know better how to pronounce the company name if I did - I am bullshitting you, and if you hire me you are hiring a bullshitter who never worked at Bombardier".

  19. Thank god for the interview by Drunken_Jackass · · Score: 1

    I just recently interviewed someone based on a impeccable resume. The job basically boiled down to some javascript programming, and he'd been programming javascript for several years. He even knew the industry application we were using in our environment.

    However, about 30 seconds into the interview (right after "Didja have any trouble finding us?") i figured out that he was either an outright liar, or suffered some sort of blunt-head trauma on the way to meet me. Not only didn't he have any idea about anything technical, turns out he wasn't managing the staff of 300 back at his old job, but rather cleaned the place after everyone else went home.

    --
    There are 01 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and me.
    1. Re:Thank god for the interview by paulydavis · · Score: 4, Funny

      I had a friend who on his way to the interview got into a car accident. He had a concussion. This was his second interview and had decided to go to it anyway. Needless to say, he didn't get the job. I asked him what the hell he was thinking why didn't he call them and tell them what happened. He said well really I wasn't thinking very well.

  20. Another advertising tactic... by huwr · · Score: 0

    Well, I supposed putting a little humour in your resume would just be another advertising tactic. Like putting something that almost shouldn't be there, making your ads funny is a great way to get attention. I love it when ads come up with something funny*. I suppose that reading large amounts of resumes would be a boring job, and maybe those who are reading will remember the ones that bring a little sunshine into their day.

    *My favourite being an NRMA (insurance agency) ad where the four horsemen of the apocalypse come up to an insurance saleswoman and complain about how all their good work was just wasted by people 'being too fair in the insurance business'.

  21. circa May 2000... by the+quick+brown+fox · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Significant experience with Internet navigation."

    That one went up on the company intranet's quote board!

  22. Nonexistant institutions by Lionel+Hutts · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In my field, the canonical example is the degree from Princeton Law School. A Google search turns up several references that are not obviously jokes or fictional -- like this or this (though those are not resumes).

    --
    I Can't Believe It's A Law Firm, LLP does not necessarily endorse the contents of this message.
    1. Re:Nonexistant institutions by sartin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It seems like that the "Robert George of Princeton Law School" mentioned in the New Jersey Ballot site (second "this") is probably Robert George, Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton. It seems like an understandable error to mistakenly assume the Professor of Jurisprudence is at a Law School.

    2. Re:Nonexistant institutions by selan · · Score: 1

      Not from a resume, but a few years ago there was a tv show where a character claimed to have gotten her law degree at Baltimore City College. Which is a high school.

  23. Clarity in CVs by Uosdwis · · Score: 2, Funny

    In a resume writting class, which are great by the way, a girl was upset about using DOS.
    She wanted to use Disk Operating System in case the interviewer didn't know what DOS stood for.
    She was adament about expanding all acronyms. TCP/IP, Perl etc
    What if they don't know?
    What if they think it is something else?
    What if they think she doesn't know what it means?
    The instructor assured her that DOS is good to have experience with but will not be a deal breaker when getting a job.

    I wanted to ask her why she thought she could get a job.

  24. The circus by HeroicAutobot · · Score: 3, Funny
    Thankfully I haven't had to update my resume in a while, but I used to include the circus as previous work experience.

    I was actually in the circus at one time, though it never applied to the jobs I was interviewing for. (Not directly anyway.)

    I'm not sure how much it helped in getting my resume noticed, but it was great for interview small-talk. "Were you really in the circus?" was my most common interview question.

    --
    I'm looking for a HEPA media filter for my TV. I'm alergic to reality shows.
    1. Re:The circus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I interviewed a guy once who had been a chef for 10 years before going back to school for a CS degree. He wasn't a good fit for the position, but was interesting to talk to.

  25. True but funny stuff on resumes by msuzio · · Score: 3, Funny

    My favorite piece on a resume was an application I got for a junior developer position. We're talking ground-level work for a very small firm...

    This fellow was over here from China on a Visa, and getting a job was obviously key to his continued stay here. He had a decent amount of background in web programming, resume looked good. I finally got to his job history from China itself, and his formal schooling.

    He listed 'Resident Neurosurgeon' as his last job title before coming to America.

    Me: "Umm... is this correct? You worked as a neurosurgeon?"

    Him: "Oh, yes."

    Me: "But... you weren't operating on people, surely? You were training to be a doctor?"

    Him: "Oh no, I operated on patients for two years there. I worked on people's brains."

    I resisted the urge to make a joke about who did he think he was, some sort of brain surgeon? I later on got a similar opportunity when I hired a Chinese girl who had a PhD in (you guessed it) rocket science. :-)

    (No, I didn't hire the brain surgeon. We found a candidate with more experience and less likeliness to jump ship from us if a job opened up in his true area of expertise)

    1. Re:True but funny stuff on resumes by stinkyelf · · Score: 1

      the sad part is that he could well have been a brain surgeon in china, though unable to get any sort of respect for his qualifications in your country :(

      sadly I think it happens way too often.

    2. Re:True but funny stuff on resumes by UPi · · Score: 1

      My resume is this:

      GCA/M d(--) s-:->: a- C++@ UL++ P+++>$ L++>+++$ !E W++ N o>+ ?K w(---) ?O>+ ?M> V-- PS++ PE@ Y+>++ ?PGP t+ ?5 ?X R+>+++ !t b++ DI D++ G e+++>++++ h+ r++ y+

      If they don't understand, I wouldn't want to work there anyway.

    3. Re:True but funny stuff on resumes by msuzio · · Score: 1

      Oh no, I believed him 100%. I also saw a naval architect from China during that same interview period, and I've worked with several PhD's from China who were working much more entry-level jobs.

      I believe he did say that he was having problems getting his credentials accepted here, but I didn't know what the details were -- his English was quite passable, but not up to some of the complexities in that discussion, so I'm sure I could have missed something subtle there.

  26. MOD PARENT UP!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Let's see how pissed off we can get this guy by raising him to +5!!

    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP!! by cookd · · Score: 2, Funny

      MAN, i W1$H i HAD M0D P01NT5 RITE N0W!!!!!! :P

      --
      Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
  27. Declining acceptance of honors granted by Theory+of+Everything · · Score: 2, Funny

    It is becoming more and more common in science to see resumes that list the honors one has been offerred, but for some reason the recipient denied them.

    An example of this is in post-doctoral fellowships, which are generally quite prestigious. A person may only accept one at a time (it isn't considered fair to recieve double income for the same work, and it helps to spread the wealth), so one lists the fellowship accepted, and all the others that one turned down. I've come across several resumes that read:
    "Hubble Fellow, 2001"
    "Chandra Fellowship, 2001, denied"
    "Jansky Fellowship, 2001, denied"
    etc.

    You'd think that just being a Hubble Fellow would be enough to convince people that you're a top-level scientist. We're just one step away from:
    "Would have recieved Hubble Fellowship, 2001, had I not been too lazy to write a good essay."
    or
    "Deserved Chandra Fellowship, 2001, but some jerk on the committee thought otherwise!"

    On another note, I've also seen people list "invited talks", in which they had invited themselves, or were obligated to give the talk as part of a class.

    1. Re:Declining acceptance of honors granted by zero_offset · · Score: 1

      If they turned it down, should it say "declined" rather than "denied"? Or perhaps post-docs aren't what they used to be.

      --

      Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005

  28. Let me be the first to say `Abibu gazini' by Uosdwis · · Score: 1

    chauffeur, seamstress, and curator of large mammals.

    Worked for the Carter Administration!?
    Well, you voted for him ... twice!
    ..Sshhh

    From Marge Gets a Job

    1. Re:Let me be the first to say `Abibu gazini' by TechnoPops · · Score: 1

      You forgot the part after Marge gets the job and she's shown to her office, with a gigantic, complicated machine inside. Marge: Umm... what I am supposed to do? Smithers (chuckles): Marge, please. According to your resume, you INVENTED this machine.

      --
      "Each time you smile, it'll only last awhile. Life may be scary, but it's only temporary."
  29. Re:C+ Does exist by samjam · · Score: 1

    I thought this but checked before I posted and can't find any mention of it in C++ histories or histories of programming languages.

    You may be right of course....

    Or I could just put up a fake history for you to link to.

    Sam

  30. Re:C+ Does exist by avalys · · Score: 1

    I think you're bullshitting.

    As far as I recall the story, C++ was named because of the ++ (postfix?) operator in C. So, C++ is C + 1.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank.
  31. Mod parent underrated by Kethinov · · Score: 1

    The mods are getting a wee bit too confy with that redundant modifier these days. I'll see you in meta mod land!

    --
    You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
    1. Re:Mod parent underrated by fm6 · · Score: 0, Redundant
      Redundant is a little overused, isn't it? Especially in this case -- how can the very first post be redundant?

      I think there might be a few folks who think I'm evil, and come hunting for me whenever they get a few mod points. Not that big a deal.

    2. Re:Mod parent underrated by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Jeez, what idiot wasted their points modding down the parent? Besides which, "Redundant" makes no sense at all. "Offtopic," maybe.

    3. Re:Mod parent underrated by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 1
      how can the very first post be redundant?

      Because it's not the first words than anyone has ever written in any context. For example, a first post that repeats what's in a story writeup or article can be redundant. Or just one repeats things that have already been said a million times and don't need to be said again.
      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
    4. Re:Mod parent underrated by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those!

  32. On C, C+, C++ by cybermace5 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The funny thing about that, is that it possibly did help him get the job. In a big corporation like Motorola, the resumes are scanned and then HR searches for keywords. Your friend managed to get in one extra hit for "C" in the programming section, and quite possibly came out on top of the search.

    --
    ...
  33. Personal Interests by Mastoid · · Score: 1
    Had one guy who listed the "adult movies" he had not yet seen, but sure hoped to in the future.

    Strangely, this was not on the printed resume he submitted, but was on his online resume, to which his printed resume referred.

    --
    I had an argument...with the person here at the university that teaches OS design. I wonder when I'll learn --Linus
  34. You bet I'm a nit-picker! by GuyMannDude · · Score: 1

    No, but it's a meta-language, and they usually don't include a space to include the meta-languages you are proficient in.

    I'm talking about resumes so there are no "spaces" to fill out.

    It's easier (arguably safer) to just throw "HTML" in with C, C++, etc, and take a chance on having a nit-picker down you for it...

    I'd be really wary of hiring a program who displays this kind of "what I wrote wasn't exact but you know what I mean" attitude. IMHO the best programs ARE nit-pickers. I'd be much more impressed by someone who listed "programming languages" and then "markup languages" as seperate entites. And if you have to fill out a form doesn't make a distinction, then you should call it out in your resume.

    Anyhow, the point I think you are making is well taken. Applicants don't know whether their resume is going to be read my an HR drone or a "nit-picker" like myself. What I really object to is some little snot-nosed kid trying to snow me with buzzwords. If I get the sense that the applicant is trying to do that, I'll just throw his resume away. Why should I hire someone who I'm not sure I believe?

    GMD

    1. Re:You bet I'm a nit-picker! by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      That's why I list all that under 'Technologies,' rather than languages. :)

    2. Re:You bet I'm a nit-picker! by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Funny
      I'd be really wary of hiring a program who displays this kind of "what I wrote wasn't exact but you know what I mean" attitude.

      I'd be wary of hiring programs too...oh, you mean programmers. Sorry, didn't mean to nitpick.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    3. Re:You bet I'm a nit-picker! by einTier · · Score: 1
      The problem is using just enough techno-babble that you get past the idiot drone that's scanning resumes and says "oh, there's no HTML experience here" and chunks resumes, even though it may be listed under something other than "programming languages". However, at the same time, you've got to put together a resume that doesn't make you look like an idiot when it lands in front of a technically competent person.

      It's a horrible game, because the two people looking at resumes are looking for something completely different. I can't tell you how many times I've had HR come back and tell me that something wasn't on my resume when it, in fact, was, or when they've asked me to add things that will make me look like an idiot just to get my resume forwarded up one more level.

      --
      -------------------------------------------------- $665.95 -- retail price of the beast.
    4. Re:You bet I'm a nit-picker! by mhesseltine · · Score: 1

      Mr. Anderson, welcome back.

      --
      Overrated / Underrated : Moderation :: Anonymous Coward : Posting
    5. Re:You bet I'm a nit-picker! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry. Remember that, "IHHO (In His/Her Humble Opinion) the best programs ARE nit-pickers."

  35. Not exactly funny when it is on the resume by MerlynEmrys67 · · Score: 1, Insightful
    So you get a resume for a candidate - listing about 30-40 buzzwords that they used to get through the HR screening - I really want to get an assessment of what they actually know - so I will ask them to describe 10 or so of the buzzwords that I am familiar with, Buzzword Bingo, any score less than 8 is an automatic disqualification. And if you score a 9, you had better score very well on the true technical questions.

    Then there was the guy who listed an expert network programmer, with skills in Ethernet, TCP/IP etc.

    My first classic question is "How does Ethernet work ?"
    I drew a blank stare, with a "I don't know" - Time to end this interview and quit wasting my time... Oh well

    --
    I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
  36. Re:C+ Does exist by aoteoroa · · Score: 1

    I think you're bullshitting.
    As far as I recall the story, C++ was named because of the ++ (postfix?) operator in C. So, C++ is C + 1


    Yup. Check out Bjarne Stroustrup's FAQ page Why is the language called C++

  37. Re:C+ Does exist by pbox · · Score: 1

    Ok, then I have expreience in ++C, C+1, C++ and ++C++--, as well.

    --
    Code poet, espresso fiend, starter upper.
  38. Resumes are funny, but by nsebban · · Score: 1

    job posts are sometimes funnier. I recently read a "C# developper wanted, with minimum 4 years experience" offer :)

    --
    ____
    nico
    Nico-Live
  39. Re:C+ Does exist by elendel · · Score: 1

    Ok, so I was wrong about C++ being derived from C+. But I was careful not to explicitly say it was, as I wasn't sure anyway... ;)

    I have been unable to find any hard evidence of C+, except for a brief mention in wikipedia:

    History of the Name "C++"
    This name is credited to Rick Mascitti (mid-1983) and was first used in December 1983. Earlier, during the research period, the developing language had been referred to as "C with Classes". The final name stems from C's "++" operator (which increments the value of a variable) and a common naming convention of using "+" to indicate an enhanced computer program, for example: "Wikipedia+". According to Stroustrup: "the name signifies the evolutionary nature of the changes from C". C+ had earlier named an unrelated program. While most C code consists of valid C++, C does not form a subset of C++.

    --

    If I was worried about Karma, I'd eat tofu.
  40. Moderators, please stop modding him up by GuyMannDude · · Score: 1

    Usually I don't respond to obvious trolls like this but people are modding him up for some reason.

    You are doing a disservice your orginization by automatically writing off all 20-somethings as lacking excelent coding skills. Just because you were out playing football and drinking beer in your late teens and weren't working on commercial software products to pay your way through college doesn't mean all 20-somethings don't have years of experience and the ability to write and even design highly complex projects with high quality levels.

    This AC accuses me of writing off a group of individuals I don't know and then write me off in the same manner (playing football and drinking beer). Mods, what is Insightful about this?

    And I didn't have to pay my way through college because I got an all-expenses paid fellowship as an undergrad and had my doctoral research fully funded by a national lab.

    In fact, some of the best software engineers I know are in their mid 20s, and some of the worst I know are over 30.

    Ah, but how many of those great 20-something software engineers got worse with experience? Probably not too many.

    Interview the candidates and judge them on their skills instead of basing your hiring decision on your age prejudices.

    I simply do not have the time to get everyone who submits a resume an interview. Resumes are used as a bulk filter. If something doesn't seem right to me, I'll just throw the resume away. Yes, that might mean that we miss out on super-geniuses like you but I think it's a reasonable policy when dealing with large numbers.

    GMD

    1. Re:Moderators, please stop modding him up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny how you get upset when you get labled via stereotype instead of by what you've actually done and acomplished. Now you see how all those 20-something that are looking for jobs feel when you don't call them back, or send them away simply because they are too young.

      The point is, age is the wrong filter when you decide which resumes to throw away. I agree you can't interview everybody, but if age is the deciding factor in your assessment of a candidate's capabilities, you've got a problem. It's an especially big problem if you find yourself hiring a sub-par 30 something because you couldn't find the perfict fit and you didn't even look at the resumes of younger applicants.

      Troll, my ass. The post worked perfectly. It was only anonymous because I post a lot around here, and I'd rather keep people who read my posts on a need to know basis about my background... especially my age, lest they write my posts off before even reading them.

    2. Re:Moderators, please stop modding him up by Bush+Pig · · Score: 1

      I think he's actually talking about young people who claim to be expert programmers in a virtually infinite number of languages, rather than young people per se.

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
    3. Re:Moderators, please stop modding him up by pixel_bc · · Score: 1

      > I'll just throw the resume away.
      > Yes, that might mean that we miss out on
      > super-geniuses like you but I think it's
      > a reasonable policy when dealing with
      > large numbers.

      Heh -- David Brent from The Office said:

      I only hire lucky people -- I always throw out half the pile of CV's.

    4. Re:Moderators, please stop modding him up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it sounds as though he is prejudiced against younger people. He specifically singled out "20-something applicants fresh out of school". His complaint could just as easily be leveled against people with 10 years of experience in C++, OOA/OOD, etc. who can't answer simple questions like: when should you make a destructor virtual. The underlying theme here is that of people blatantly misrepresenting their abilities. As he said, simply knowing the syntax for a language does not make you an expert, and neither does working with a language for 10 years. In my experience younger developers are no more guilty of this than experienced developers.

    5. Re:Moderators, please stop modding him up by 1iar_parad0x · · Score: 1

      Frankly, I hope jobs at that level (i.e. Raytheon??) held by PhD scientists wouldn't be so dependent on bullet points in resumes. Also, do people still submit resumes at that level? Heck, I'd probably hire all my people by looking at their research.

      --
      What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
    6. Re:Moderators, please stop modding him up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, lets discriminate against young guys. They couldn't know what they are talking about.

      Oh and blacks, why would you want to work with them? Same goes for those damn homosexuals I think this is reasonable considering the large number of resumes I have to go through.

      Oh I also don't hire women (well except attractive ones for eye candy), jews, hispanics, blondes, people with brown eyes, canadians, catholics and conservatives.

  41. On a resume... by hords · · Score: 1

    I had a friend that put "Plays video games" on his resume. LOL. And that is how he ended up getting laid off... Playing video games at work.

  42. Re:C+ Does exist by Josh+Booth · · Score: 1

    There is at least a C+@.

  43. Best I've seen by rf0 · · Score: 2, Funny

    MCSE.

    Rus

  44. Aaaugh! by smalloy · · Score: 1

    Funniest thing I remember was a candidate who claimed "excellent troubleshouting abilities". They weren't hired.

  45. For real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am *NOT* making this up.

    A few years back we were hiring for Java development. One of the lead programmers had a military background so naturally a resume of anohter fellow with a similar military background rose to the top of the pile. After a phone interview by somebody here, the candidate was scheduled for a full day of interviews on site (He was located several states away).

    The big day came and he shows up 3 hours late, dressed like a car mechanic - grease and all. His excuse? "I don't trust airplanes so I had to take the train" (Keep in mind that there are no commuter rails anywhere near our part of the state). Umm okay, well lets get started. One of the first questions I had was about a descrepency on his resume. It stated that he had recieved a BS from Yale, but those same years it also listed him as being active in the military. (served in the Navy off the coast of Libya)

    "Right, well I was wounded in action and took correspondence courses while in the hospital" was his response. I think I was more surprised to hear that he was wounded in action in Libya than the correspondence courses supposedly offered by Yale!

    Anyway, the interview quickly went down hill after the started throwing buzzwords haphazardly around the room. And then came the kicker... during a lull in the conversation, between discussions of his C++ past, he leaned forward and said "You know what? I really can't stand n*ggers. They cause all the problems"

    WTF?? Who says things like that, let alone during an interview! I was so shellshocked that the only thing I could manage to say was "Well... okay..." as I slipped out of the room. The worst part was we still had him scheduled for the rest of the day (another 4 hours)

    (and I'm posting anonymously because he might be reading slashdot. the dude was a Freak!)

    Oh, and he didn't get the job.

    1. Re:For real by XO · · Score: 1

      I had this guy come into my shop a few months ago, it went like:

      "Hey, can I fill out an application?"
      "Sure.. *flips the web browser to our internet application* just fill out this form here. When you press Submit, that will send it right to our offices."
      "Hey.. let me ask you a question.."
      "Sure thing!"
      "Why does *company name* only hire white people? You need more niggers like me around here. You fuckin uptight whiteys are why nobody buys anything here."
      "You need to leave now, sir."
      "I ain't leavin, you cracker!"
      "*i pick up phone, call police* Leave, now, Sir."

      what the fuck is wrong with people? lol

      --
      "Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
    2. Re:For real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That person is now gainfully employed spreading the word of the G.N.A. on Slashdot, I believe.

    3. Re:For real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? It's true! Noggers do cause all the problems! Why can't they just drink beer like any other decent person??

    4. Re:For real by N2UX · · Score: 2, Funny

      OK, I'm guessing you live in Central Florida, because I used to work with this guy. He claimed he had studied at Oxford, Yale, and several other big name schools. He also claimed he was a CNA/CNE, MSCE, and several other things. He was no older than I, but had served in Viet Nam *AND* worked for the CIA. He eventually got the axe after another co-worker and I worked through the night rewriting this consulting document he had been working on for six months. It consisted of stuff cut-and-pasted from various web pages he had found through one of the search engines. Most it was irrelevent.

    5. Re:For real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very well could be, I heard that the did go down to Florida after our interview. His previous job had been in the Chicago area, I believe.

      Very strange fellow. Wish I still had his resume.

    6. Re:For real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Oh, and he didn't get the job."

      Whew! I'm glad you said that! I read the whole thing assuming you hired the guy!

      (for the impaired, that was sarcasm)

    7. Re:For real by Bendebecker · · Score: 1

      Disorganized speech, delusional thinking... schizophrenia, dude, schizophrenia.

      --
      There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
      most of us won't be able to afford it.
      -- Lemmy
    8. Re:For real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy shit, not kidding, this guy married my sister and moved to alaska with her (she joined the air force). I remember him coming to meet the folks, what a fucking nut, seems he was also israle army and a paratrooper, I've never heard so much BS in my life.

    9. Re:For real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That guy sounds like my long lost cousin !!

  46. Cut Paste Editing - No Really Cut and Paste by hobbestcat · · Score: 3, Funny

    Had a guy come in with his resume. He had one. It was worn like tissue that's been in your pocket for a few months. He had taken an Exacto knife and cut out mistakes and changes and he had pasted on little pieces of changes here and there. It was so funny that we passed the guy around to various people to interview just so they could see this limp paper with holes. It looked like a joke from a WWII comedy - "after the censors".

    No. He didn't get the job but I still remember him a decade later.

  47. splling mistkes 'n bad gramer by a1291762 · · Score: 1

    its relly bad to get splling mistke's 'n bad gramer in resmes. Youd think someon wood teach this in skool. Adding apostrofe's everywhere is relly anoying tooo.

  48. been waiting for this topic by XO · · Score: 5, Funny

    I collect bad resumes. hehe..

    Keep in mind. I work in retail. Retail electronics sales. Thank God we do all of our application processing over the Internet now, and no longer accept resumes, except when pasted into the Internet Job Application Form. But now I don't get the utter hilariousness of people seriously thinking they are going to get hired with things like the following (remember. Retail. Electronics.):

    "Objective: Seeking a job in Food Services. ...
    Major: Novell Networking"
    (ok, majored in college in novell networking? and seeking a "fries with that" job? and applying in an electronics store???)

    "Objective: To be an asset to an organization who needs I can fulfill and obtain a position or responsiblity in the sales feeld." (this is exactly how it was typed)

    "I have very good communication skills, multitask oriented, self motivated can get along with various people, I do what im supposed to do when it be done and i'm experienced with dealing with people. I'm willing to travel."

    "Education: I received a diploma from holy Redeemer in which I studied college prep classes on June 4, 2000." (this person didn't go to school very much?)

    "In January 2001 I attended Henry Ford Community college where I studied basic English"

    "responsibilities included help elders with personal care keep them company do thnig around there homes if needed. I did not quit or get fired."

    "In January I will be starting school at NIT and taking computer classes to help me until I go to school for my real Major."

    "Education: Fordson High School. [Enter your major here] GPA: 3.0 [Enter additional school information including honors, campus involvement and other activities here]" (oops, gotta check those default fields!)

    "Responsiblties: Install new, used, and repair tires." (huh?)

    "Objective: To obtain full time employment as a Prep Cook or in a Hotel Banquet Facility where my abilities will be utilized and where there is room for growth and opportunity." (I figure this guy could make us lunch every day.. hmm.. think: retail. sales. We don't need a cook.)

    "Reason for leaving last employer: School stared back!" (I think she meant school started back.. but that still doesn't make sense in any brand of English that I know.. although I know what she meant.. I'd like to see a school that stares back, though. Maybe a good Stephen King novel.)

    "Reason for leaving last employer: Hair cut." (????)

    "Previous employer: Financial Administrator for the Yemen National Government." (ok, what the hell are you doing applying for a Retail Sales job?)

    I've got a hell of a lot more, but these are the ones easily accessible from where I'm sitting right now. Enjoy!

    --
    "Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
    1. Re:been waiting for this topic by stanwirth · · Score: 1

      "Reason for leaving last employer: School stared back!"

      The obligatory...(sorry I couldn't resist):

      In Soviet Russia, School Stares back at YOU!

    2. Re:been waiting for this topic by Tukla · · Score: 1

      Heh. I've never even been asked for a resume for a retail job. "Just fill out the application. We'll contact your references and let you know," I'm told.

    3. Re:been waiting for this topic by XO · · Score: 1

      Well, normally, that's all OK. Just there are these people (and virtually every resume that has ever come across my desk is as bad as those examples) that insist on giving me their resumes. If your objective is to be in the food services industry, why are you telling me this, when I'm in the retail electronics industry??

      --
      "Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
    4. Re:been waiting for this topic by Smthng · · Score: 1

      The "school started back" phrase is probably vernacular. The particular Caribbean dialect I (used to?) speak uses it and it took me a bit before I realized that it wasn't grammatically correct.

      "back" is being used as a synonym for "again"

    5. Re:been waiting for this topic by XO · · Score: 1

      sure, I understood that.. but misspelling "started" was the better part of that. :D

      --
      "Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
  49. Re:C+ Does exist by elendel · · Score: 1

    From a source of unknown and possibly questionable repute:

    However, C was (and is) still highly useful and well worth keeping around, so a sort of extended C language was developed. This language was essentially "C and then some", or C-plus (C+). As the concepts of object-oriented programming continued to develop, C+ had to be upgraded, and became C++.

    So I'm not the only one who was mistaken.

    But with a little more research we find out Ch is C+. Not what I was thinking of, but interesting in its own way.

    There is also a Small C+ sublanguage for developing on the Z88 portable computer. I haven't been able to find anything specifially about Small C+, but it seems to just be C with support for the proper address size on the Z88.

    Of course, none of this is really what I thought I was talking about.
    After spending a bit of time trying to vindicate myself, it looks like what I remember as C+ is actually a set of headers to implement object oriented-ness in C. This project is a little bit newer than I thought, but is probably what my brain was triggering on.

    --

    If I was worried about Karma, I'd eat tofu.
  50. from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by leitz · · Score: 1

    SysAdmin interviewee lists both Solaris and BSD skills. "Which system, Solaris or BSD, would give you more information if you ran 'ps -ef'?" Didn't know. Didn't get the job.

    1. Re:from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You were supposed to post that to the next /. story in this series--"dumb interview questions and the fucks that ask them."

    2. Re:from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is *THE* most stupid interview question I ever read in my life.

    3. Re:from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by Durin_Deathless · · Score: 1

      I'm not entirely sure that is a fair question. Some versions of ps do react differently to the flags, and he may have been so automatic about switching back and forth he honestly couldn't figure out if that was something that would change. I know that if you asked me that, I would at least hesitate, since ps is one of those automatic things, where I just change the flags based on what my prompt looks like(my prompt style tells me how privledged I am, and what system type it is, just by the arrangement(eg: $HOSTNAME:`pwd`> versus $USER@$HOSTNAME[`pwd`]% former is sysv style, latter is bsd style)

      That said, I would treat a Solaris system as BSDish, since it is a BSD derivative...maybe not unfair as I first thought.

      --
      You should use AdiumX on your Mac.
    4. Re:from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by leitz · · Score: 1
      Durin, I have no hesitation about giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Had the interviewee said anything about "some systems have different options" or indicated they knew it *could* have different results I would have been quite satisfied.

      In the last few rounds of contractor finding my mananger and I will interview and one of the other team members may join us if the interviewee indicates strong technical skills in applications I don't know. Our general mode is that I supervise the contractors because the others are busy and working in specialized areas of the applications; I'm the generalist that picks up the OS and hardware bits. I *have* to try to weed out people because there is so much misinformation on resumes that truth is hard to find. Like the others have mentioned--people put things on there that they don't really know. I have a production environment to protect, I can't allow someone in that won't admit what they don't know.

      That said, one time my manager asked me why I didn't seem to like a different interviewee.

      "Oh, I like him; I'm just wondering how he's going to take working for someone who knows less than he does...."

      The interviewee took it well and we're great cube neighbors.

    5. Re:from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by Kevin+Burtch · · Score: 1

      "That said, I would treat a Solaris system as BSDish, since it is a BSD derivative..."

      Nope, sorry.
      SunOS 4.x.x (later renamed Solaris 1.x) was a BSD derivative.
      Solaris 2.x or just x (SunOS 5.x) is based on AT&T Unix with a bit of backward compatiblilty extras thrown in for people migrating from SunOS 4.x.x.

      If you want to use the BSD-style ps in Solaris, you have to specify the path /usr/ucb/ps or it will run the SVR4 ps in /usr/bin/.

      Having administered both for many years, I agree with the interview question... the person should definately be able to answer such a simple question if they claim extensive experience in both.

      --
      - Preferences: Solaris 10 (servers), Ubuntu (desktops), Solaris 11 (personal servers) -
    6. Re:from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by kps · · Score: 1

      Stupid? One short simple question established that the candidate did not have the experience he claimed. And no, someone who wants to be a system administrator should not have to look up the most common arguments to ps.

      (BTW, System V's /usr/ucb/ps sucks so badly that I wrote a quick&dirty /proc-groveller here; never got around to implementing bits I rarely use, though.)

      The corresponding question for someone who claims Solaris as well as Linux experience is, "When would you use killall?" and you do not want someone who gets that wrong touching your box....

    7. Re:from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

      Some versions of ps do react differently to the flags

      That's exactly the point of the question. Someone claiming proficiency in both should be able to identify which variant that command is designed for.

    8. Re:from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by jo42 · · Score: 1


      Which version of Solaris and which version of *BSD?

    9. Re:from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by leitz · · Score: 1

      Jo; Not sure what you mean. Are you asking me what I meant or suggesting a possible response for the interviewee?

    10. Re:from the "Yes this is a trick question" dept. by Durin_Deathless · · Score: 1

      Fair enough

      --
      You should use AdiumX on your Mac.
  51. Mechatronics Engineering by BhAaD · · Score: 1

    Would you hire someone who stated they were studying 'Mechatronics Engineering' on their resume? The reason im asking this is because I want to know if it sounds like a fake word/profession.

    1. Re:Mechatronics Engineering by umofomia · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Would you hire someone who stated they were studying 'Mechatronics Engineering' on their resume? The reason im asking this is because I want to know if it sounds like a fake word/profession.
      Mechatronics is an actual field. A mechatronic system combines electrical, mechanical, and/or thermal subsystems under the coordination of an embedded microcontroller to achieve precise mechanical or thermo-mechanical control of a process.

      It's a pretty cool field. I took some classes on it while in college. It's a good field for CS people who have some interest in electronics but don't particularly enjoy all the nitty-gritty details of EE.

    2. Re:Mechatronics Engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought Mechatronics was hard suit design and repair. Talk about a cool job!

    3. Re:Mechatronics Engineering by alexpage · · Score: 1

      It's real. I applied to study it at Southampton University as a fall-back in case I didn't get in doing Software Engineering at UMIST.

  52. best reference you can use by ffub · · Score: 0

    came as he went, ...

    fired with enthusiasm.

  53. How about resumes in Word Format that . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    have a Macro Virus attached

  54. Dead references by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    There was a former co-worker, trying to come back to work for the company he'd left a few years prior. He listed four references -- two of whom were still with the company (and whom he had not contacted -- they were blindsided by the resume). Worst of all, though, one of the references had been dead for almost a year.

    I won't even get into the pretentious fonts, excessive use of MCSE logos, check-list format skills summary, or four-line bargraph showing time spent with each company.

    Too bad it's not online -- I'd post a link.

  55. Hey mate ! You're in, mate ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    'Performing various tasks in middle-sized penitentiairy institution, like computer education, assembling all sorts of devices, day to day coaching of interns, supervision of hygenic conditions and maximizing use of very small space'.

    Didn't list 'de-licing' though.

    There's also the story about the man who worked in pest-control, and listed as previous positions: Assassin, Serial Killer, Mercenary.

  56. Funny you should ask by Lumpish+Scholar · · Score: 1

    I was reviwing resumes just the other day. Stuff that really gets to me:

    "Seeking a challenging position doing ...": as opposed to "seeking a position where I can read Slashdot all day"?

    "Excelent comunication skiils." (I haven't seen exactly that one, but I've seen close.)

    "Xxx is a worldwide leader ...": I'm supposed to believe you were responsible?

    Misspellings in experience, e.g., "Microsoft Steal Head" (Steelhead was router software in Windows NT 4.0)

    "Excellent debugging / problem solving / communications skills": in your humble opinion?

    And my favorite of all: "Contact me for resume."

    --
    Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
    1. Re:Funny you should ask by Tukla · · Score: 1
      "Seeking a challenging position doing ...": as opposed to "seeking a position where I can read Slashdot all day"?

      Not necessarily. A job can keep you busy while still being tedious.

    2. Re:Funny you should ask by zero_offset · · Score: 1
      "Excellent debugging / problem solving / communications skills": in your humble opinion?

      It is my experience that most developers are lamentably weak in these areas. If someone claims to have "excellent" performance in those areas, I definitely want to know, because I'm going to test that claim in the interview, and assuming the claim withstands scrutiny, that could be a deal-breaker. There is nothing I dislike more than a programmer who can't debug.

      --

      Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005

  57. not on the resume by phantomlord · · Score: 1

    but on the application under availability (by a high school graduate)

    sunday: eny
    monday: eny
    tuesday: eny
    wednesday: eny
    thursday: eny
    friday: eny
    saturday: nun
    sunday: nun

    --
    Don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls out. Don't close it so much that you cut off the blood.
  58. Crime... by razablade · · Score: 5, Funny

    At my high school job (retail sales), we received an application where the applicant had filled out "Mister Meaner" next to the Have you ever been convicted of a crime? question.

    --
    The expression is "I could NOT care less." Think about it.
  59. True! by DAldredge · · Score: 1

    After all, whey should foreign doctors have to be held to the same standard and pass the same boards as native doctors?

    It's not like peoples lives....

  60. Had to blog it by extra88 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Considering I'm not in a management position, I have had to interview and review the resumes of way too many people. I continue to be amazed by spelling & grammar errors. I expect them on Slashdot but not in a document which one has had time to craft and upon which one's future may depend. We don't automatically toss those resumes, they're never applying for positions which require strong writing skills, but if they get an interview we ask more questions related to paying attention to details ("rm -rf / tmp/, what's wrong with this?").

    This sentence from a recent cover letter caught my eye and I felt compelled to blog it.

    I am very hard worker and a stickler for details. (Yes, English is their first language but even if it wasn't, that would be no excuse.)

    I still have a big stack of resumes and cover letters for people I've interviewed over the years. I'll review them for do's and don'ts next year when I relocate and have to update my own resume. Maybe I'll compile a list of the funny stuff I find along the way.

    1. Re:Had to blog it by Tukla · · Score: 1
      ("rm -rf / tmp/, what's wrong with this?")

      Umm, I forgot to log in as root first?

    2. Re:Had to blog it by drgnvale · · Score: 1
      ("rm -rf / tmp/, what's wrong with this?")
      Umm, I forgot to log in as root first?

      I'm thinking its the space between '/' and tmp/ myself. Although there is nothing really *wrong* with that, except its a bit redundent.

  61. The interview was a doozy by baldmenRsexy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A mall clothing store I interviewed at gave a written test to measure morality & ethics. One of the questions was something like, "when you take drugs, do you prefer: (a) marijuana, (b)cocaine, or (c) I only drink alcohol." Waitaminute! There wasn't a choice for "I don't do drugs."! I wrote my answers in on the Scantron form. Got the job, though I never did understand what they were testing for.

    --
    If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right. (Adapted from Henry Ford)
  62. Not the language, the system. by nemeosis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People often forget that, it's not the language you know, but the system that you program for that's important.

    Learning the syntax of any programming language is incredibly easy, and once you understand the fundamental concepts of programming, you can apply it to any new language that comes out. Whether you're a C++ genius, a Java guru, a Perl hacker, a VB monkey, a Python hippie, or a Microsoft .NET evangelist. All of the concepts are the same.

    What's much more harder, and what takes much more time, is to learn the intricacies of the system that you're programming for.

    Writing solid C++ code for Linux, is incredibly different than writing solid C++ MFC code for Windows. The syntax might look alike, but the system calls and whatever else you need is different. The same goes for Java, except with that language, you are more abstracted from the hardware layer, and you program for the Java platform. But still.. you gotta know the "Java system of programming."

    1. Re:Not the language, the system. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll bet you have less than 3 years real world experience or you've held the same job at the same company for most of your career. Don't you know what it's like trying to get a job out there? You have to know that employers look for buzzwords first and skill second (if at all).

    2. Re:Not the language, the system. by sdcharle · · Score: 1
      Whether you're a C++ genius, a Java guru, a Perl hacker, a VB monkey, a Python hippie, or a Microsoft .NET evangelist.

      Dang, turns out Python is the language I'm most 'stereotype compatible' with, and I've been wasting all this time with Java and Perl.

  63. Re:C+ Does exist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am sorry but if you think that C+ is a language then I would have to say you ate too much wall candy as a child. Think before you speak/write and then you won't post mindless garbage.

  64. Programming languages-Film at 11, Audiance at 12. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's why I wonder why people don't use some of the same tactics that advertisers use? Were's the "commercials"? Were's the "billboards"? If they can use them on us, why not the same on them?

    Aren't we tired of "plain jane" resumes by now?

  65. Winzip? by wr11 · · Score: 2, Funny

    At last job I got to see a few of the resumes that came in, mostly the dumb-asses handed them to me so I could give them to the boss. On my little pre-reads I came across one of the best "skills" I believe is read like this: Experienced in Winzip. What the hell? I should be adding stuff like "10 years experience with text files" to my resume... see what that gets me. Needless to say we did not hire that guy.

  66. grammar nazi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    much more harder?

  67. Faxing software... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Some guy who faxed us his resume probably entered bullshit into the fields that his faxing software used as the "From" entry (part of every page's header) when he installed it, and never bothered to change it. Or verify it.

    Every page had a header that said "fuck you".

  68. During an interview... by Kevin+Burtch · · Score: 1

    Us: Have you worked with NIS?
    Him: -blank stare-
    Us: YP?
    Him: -blank stare-
    Us: "Yellow Pages"
    Him: Oh yeah! I know how to use the phone book!

    I left the room as I couldn't hold back from laughing any more. The entire interview, before and after (I'm told), went that way.

    No, I am NOT kidding... this was a guy who claimed extensive Solaris & SunOS experience, and we were the admin team for a 750 node all-Solaris/SunOS network at a major corporation.

    --
    - Preferences: Solaris 10 (servers), Ubuntu (desktops), Solaris 11 (personal servers) -
  69. My favorite item... by weeboo0104 · · Score: 1

    Was a Moderator for Slashdot.

    --
    It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
  70. Re:C+ Does exist by sir99 · · Score: 1

    ++C++-- must be a real bitch to program in, what with all the undefined bahavior. I guess it's better than C+ at least, where all you get is syntax errors?

    --
    The ocean parts and the meteors come down
    Laid out in amber, baby.
  71. Kissinger and Arafat won the Peace prize... by vaxer · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...so then there's hope for defense contractors, too!

  72. Unorthodox bits from a job ad by vaxer · · Score: 2, Funny
    I was sick of seeing stupidly written job ads, so when it was time to hire a webmaster, I wrote a job ad with phrases like:
    • You will be told different things by different people...
    • Obviously, nobody has four years of experience with HTML 4.01, since the specification came out in 1999... [this was in 2002]
    In short, I wrote the sort of ad I'd want to read, and we found a great webmaster.
  73. Ask about her "habits" by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

    Obviously the applicant is Catholic and dedicates herself to serving Christ on weekends, you insensitive clod.

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    1. Re:Ask about her "habits" by Molt · · Score: 1

      Although they're evidently slightly lapsed as they seem free on the first Sunday of the week.

      --
      404 Not Found: No such file or resource as '.sig'
  74. In their defense by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

    "'Excellent debugging / problem solving / communications skills': in your humble opinion?"

    Resume advisors and books always encourage people to puff-up their resume with fluff like this. I think it is pretty much expected nowadays.

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  75. How about this question? by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "What's in my pocket?" That is about as fair as your question. How many people have the fields that come up for commands for every argument combo memorized? That is why we have reference manuals and man pages.

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    1. Re:How about this question? by brianjcain · · Score: 1

      Exactly. A total bs question. If I had been the bonehead to ask it, the only acceptable answer (IMO) would be "man ps".

    2. Re:How about this question? by leitz · · Score: 1
      Brian and Hoi;

      I certainly respect your right to feel my question was less than the best. However, I stand by my belief that for sysadmin jobs you should know some commands well. Although knowing *every* option may be a bit much. In my day to day work "ps -ef" is a routine tool. *I* know that it won't work on a general BSD system and I don't consider myself overly bright. Certainly the interviewees who did not list BSD as a skill weren't asked.

      Also to clarify, I *have* asked questions about bogus commands, and then asked how the person would find the answer. Of course and ask what do they do when the man pages are installed but the man page doesn't show up.

      So feel free to disagree with me, I don't mind. I'm not trying to be fair to the interviewees, I'm trying to find the ones who are mentally agile and honest. It is those people I need when the chips are down; not someone who has gotten through life because everything is "fair". I want the person who can hit the wall, bounce off. and find another way around.

    3. Re:How about this question? by Fastolfe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't need to know the fields. Anyone and everyone that can honestly claim proficiency with both Solaris and BSD architectures has needed to obtain a "full" list of all processes running on the system. This means they've done a "ps -ef" and, given that they're proficient in BSD also, know the difference between this command and the BSD equivalent.

      For those people, it's quite clear which platform gives you more data with that command.

      I'd give half credit for someone that responded saying they'd need to read the man page, because that shows me that they know where to look up information they don't know off-hand, but I agree with the original poster: anyone claiming that level of proficiency should be able to make this comparison without one.

  76. Job Clincher by reclusivemonkey · · Score: 1
    Whilst working for an Outdoor Clothing company I was fortunate enough to be involved in the selection process for store manager positions. We had one outstanding C.V. which immediately went into the "Interview" pile. Under the additional accomplishments section was:-

    U.K. Disco Dancing Champion

  77. DNRC by staplin · · Score: 1

    I've got the DNRC (Dogbert's New Ruling Class) listed on my resume under my "Professional Memberships" section (along with the ACM, etc).

    I've only had one person comment on it, and that was because they knew of a different DNRC group. However, they didn't even ask what this DNRC was after I told them I didn't know anything about the other group.

    Either people never feel they have to question me about things they don't know about on my resume, or the people who recognize it know not to draw attention, but quietly boost my chances for job offers.

  78. one that passed my way... by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 3, Funny

    At a former employer, a very small company, we had one resume for a sysadmin position come in that (in violation of good ethics and probably a law or two) was so funny we passed it around for everyone to see. The guy had listed every single bit of hardware he'd ever touched.

    I mean, he listed a twenty different brands and models of monitors. I think he even listed different keyboard manufacturers.

    IIRC the whole thing was like seven pages long.

    --
    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
    You cannot wash away blood with blood
  79. Safer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "You make big guns, and the fact that we have those big guns makes our enemies too afraid to attack us, making the world a safer place"

    A safer place for us, maybe. Someone needs to protect the rest of the world from us. Funny, the naval base at Pearl Harbor didn't make the world a safer place, nor did the atomic bomb save the World Trade Center.

    Lots of guns doesn't mean fewer enemies and it sure doesn't mean you are invulnerable.

    Instead of the Nobel Prize maybe you could work on the Edward Teller Prize.

  80. What really bothers me about this story by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

    The thing that gets me is that I INVENTED C and C++ and these thieves keep using my trademarks without permission.

    I also invented the internet during a late work night with Al Gore.

    This is all on my resume of course.

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    1. Re:What really bothers me about this story by Bendebecker · · Score: 1

      I'm the reincarnation of Charlie Babbage!

      --
      There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
      most of us won't be able to afford it.
      -- Lemmy
  81. now it is... by zonker · · Score: 0

    now it is... take a look at ms' new patent app.

  82. Cowboy Hat Shaper by smudge43 · · Score: 1

    ...listed as work experience for a network administration position. Unfortunately none of his other past jobs were any more appropriate either.

    --
    Database maintenance is currently taking place. Some items such as comment posting and moderation are currently unavaila
  83. Re:Nobel "Peace" Prize by attercoppe · · Score: 1

    Actually, the Nobel Prize is named after Alfred Nobel, the inventor of dynamite...at the time, certainly the most novel new method to kill people.

    --
    Hardware Geeks Do It With The Covers Off!
  84. Another hero falls! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I never realized Turing was one of those violent idiots that enjoy death. Damn, another hero of mine falls hard. I thought the guy worked to end war, not to kill people by touching one of those things and learning how to use one of those things.

  85. Re:C+ Does exist by Bendebecker · · Score: 1

    Actually, C++ == (C = C + 1) but lets not split hairs.

    As far as the langauge goes, according to a big graph I got on the wall from CrossTalk:
    CPL - 1963
    BCPL - July 1967
    B - 1969
    C - 1971
    C(K&R) - 1978
    C with Classes - April 1980
    C++ - July 1983
    Objective C - 1983
    Concurrent C - 1984
    ANSI C - 1989

    No C+.

    --
    There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
    most of us won't be able to afford it.
    -- Lemmy
  86. Hyper Text Markup (you know what's coming next...) by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    LANGUAGE!

    You poke it into a computer and the computer does stuff... what more do you want?

    But I agree with most of your post.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  87. Resumes given and received by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I was applying to grad school, I had to do a resume of sorts. There was one section to list awards and distinctions received during your college career. I put in a blurb about the Nintendo Championship, which I won my senior year and was runner up for my junior year. (Alas, they stopped doing Wizard-style championships by the time I won, and the grand prizes were determined by random drawing, so I lost out on the $10,000 scholarship deal. Rats.)

    And, not a resume itself, but we had some freaky people interview for us before. There was the guy who needed us to give him a wake up call so he could come to the interview, because he didn't own a clock. Then there was someone who preached throughout his interview about how he was adamantly against object-oriented programming and considered it one of the ills of society. A bit odd to get so passionate about in an interview for a java/C++ position.

  88. The opposite case... by Zero+Sum · · Score: 1
    It may not be the same but I nearly didn't get a job once because my resume contained "B, C and C++".

    It took a while to convince the recruiter that BCPL and B existed.

    --

    Zero Sum (don't amount to much). [root@localhost]

  89. Re:Nobel "Peace" Prize by gryphokk · · Score: 1

    Which so appalled Alfred that he created the Nobel Prize out of guilt.

    --
    And you, madam, are very ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.