Suing American tech companies doesn't sound like they are putting the blame on China. Sounds like they are putting the blame on corporations. What you say and what you do are two differant things in my opinion.
By the same token everyone providing open source is contributing to the problem by just having thier code available for anyone. Saying it's wrong is one thing. Saying it's wrong to make money off of it is another. However, you have to define what is wrong. So far I've seen "Providing the tools" as being the wrong doing. If that's the case then open source developers are just as guilty. They just aren't being compensated for thier role in this censorship.
I'd be curious to know how many viewers they actually had during the episodes that were shown. I get the impression the average television viewer is so used to Star Trek where the answer is a bunch of techno babble spewed out in the last few minutes of the show and anything is possible. Dealing with things somewhat realistically like, oh, actually reversing directions in space, are too confusing for most. Or are simply not as entertaining.
I can't tell you how many people that I showed homeworld to couldn't stand the game because they had to apply thrust in the reverse direction to stop or change course, and just pointing the nose of the ship where they wanted to go didn't take them right there.
Actually I'm a tall skinny fuddy duddy. My wife claims that I'm very dull sometimes. I just find differant things interesting.
I honestly looked forward to Firefly in the hopes that network television could potentially provide an additional source of good entertainment. Especially since Sci-fi shows are so few and far between, and good ones are even more rare.
Now, my opinion of Firefly can be easily challenged being that I admitted right away I only watched the first two episodes. The dialog itself may not have been horrible, but I felt that the presentation was. With television or movies you have to have both for it to be enjoyable. I didn't find it enjoyable, and it turned me off from the show. You remarked that everyone loved it and I just felt I had to put in my two cents. That's the wonderfully annoying thing about the Internet. Anyone can chime in with thier two cents. The reason I was reading the thread is that I was hopeing there was some fairly interesting conversation or insightful comments on why the show should not be canceled. I read your comment on the technology spread to the primitive civilizations insightful, and very good. You tied it in well with reality which was a nice touch. I just wonder if things of that nature are enough to make the show worthwhile as a whole. I wanted to see if anyone felt the acting/dialog had improved. Apparently I'm in a minority in feeling that it wasn't that great. Oh well, you win some you lose some. Maybe I lost out by not giving it more time. Maybe I'm jaded by all the crap that plagues the various network channels.
I'm glad you liked the scones remark, the funny thing is, I didn't think it was that funny till I read it a second time. Then it just seemed fitting;)
However, you can't hold the company liable for selling them tools that can be used for censorship when that is not thier sole purpose. Cisco sells routers, firewalls, etc. The chinese government made the concious decision to block various routes in those routers, or sites in the firewalls. Cisco didn't do it for them (at least I don't see where it says they did). Microsoft sells operating systems and proxy servers and other software. A multitude of poeple use Microsoft products to get whatever they want from the Internet. The Chinese government chose to use those products to block access to various sites.
Lots of people are glad to see Linux being picked up in China. What happens when Amnesty get's pissed off that Linux is being used to violate Human Rights? Sue the Free Software Foundation?
While Internet censorship may be no better than Nazi bookburning ( I would tend to agree ) it doesn't make the act of selling software or routers to the Chinese illegal. In my opinion this is a frivilous lawsuit and should be thrown out. Amnesty should be charged for whatever fees are associated with the case for wasting tax payer dollars. What Amnesty should be doing is lobbying to make it illegal to sell the devices/software to any company that uses or intends to use them for Human Rights violations. Put the blame where it belongs, with the Chinese government, and not with corporations.
Hell, according to the article this is even more suspect. Amnesty doesn't even appear to have done any hard research, they point to various news articles as thier sources.
Did it ever occur to you that this asshole is being honest and feels that the crap on tv is exactly that, crap. I could care less about Masterpiece Theater, C-SPAN or those annoying as hell Tasters Choice commercial. Also the British snob bs you threw in was a nice touch. C-SPAN is a waste of two channels for me, I get the most basic cable package available because my wife and I realized we didn't watch anything but C.S.I. and whatever happend to be on the Discovery channel. I watched sci-fi when andromeda or farscape was on and occasionally star gate, but those were rarities. So we reduced our cable bill by over $20 bucks a month and continued to watch the same two things.
I have no desire to watch ER, WWF anything, any soap opera, or the fresh prince. Sure I watched the fresh prince when I was much younger, and the wonder years and things like that. That was ten years ago. Today I find there isn't shit on tv worth watching other than Histories Mysteries or the various Discovery specials.
I recently got in touch with a friend from high school that had joined the army and had just moved back home after being discharged at the end of his service agreement. While we were catching up tv came up because he wanted to get cable internet access, but the cheapest way to get it was to get cable tv and intenet access in a package and he didn't want the cable tv package. His reason was that the only thing he could see himself watching was Discovery. Of course his wife wanted it for other things so I'm sure they'll get it anyway. The point is that we are completly differant and have the same opinion of tv. I'm a tech geek working as a system admin and developer for a very small company. He's going to school for achitecture. We don't share any of the same interests any more, and are as differant as can be, but both feel that tv is crap. Just because you don't feel that tv is crap and become insecure when other people let you know they think it is does not give you the right to make outlandish generalizations about them.
I could also give a flying fuck what everyone else thinks of me. If I cared about that I wouldn't be posting on Slashdot. Someone made a blanket statment about everyone loving the dialog on Firefly and I simply responded that I, like the parent poster, thought it was crap. I get up early on Saturday mornings to play Barren Realms Elite and have breakfast with my wife. If the television is turned on its to watch whatever we happen to have in from Netflix, not to watch cartoons, not to watch whatever the hell "Chico and the Man" is (Telemundo is the Spanish broadcast network right?). If they were showing loony toons first thing Saturday morning I might sit down and watch them. Power Rangers? No thanks.
Sure, we are all friends here, that's why you have to resort to calling me a snob, oh, even better, a guy pretending to be a snob. If you want to challenge what I have to say, please do so. However you could at least do it without outlandish generalizations and immature insults. Or better yet, come on over some time and watch tv with us. I think "When Dinosaurs Roamed America" is going to be on again and I didn't catch the whole thing last time. I'll make tea and we can have scones.
I don't think that it's "universally agreed upon" as the parent didn't like the dialog nor did I. I stopped watching after the second episode as it made my head hurt to watch what looked to me to be forced.
I didn't find it to be Star Trek like which was nice, but other than that it bored me to death. Nothing compares to a good Sci Fi novel. Babylon 5 was good while it lasted, Andromeda is ok, Farscape is enjoyable, and well that's about it. I can tolerate Stargate SG1, but it's not something I set out to watch.
Hell, who am I kidding, the only thing I watch on tv is C.S.I. on thursday nights (not that crap thats on Monday) and various shows on the discovery channel. I used to enjoy the history channel etc, but they aren't available on any reasonably priced package from our cable company and I'm not willing to pay for 100 channels of crap for three channels I'd watch.
How is it more difficult for the user? The buttons are not external to the curve? They are inset a bit away from the curve and are clearly defined. The fact that the buttons are curved should have no effect on the users experience. If users have a hard time clicking, then those particular users may not be well suited to using computers.
The only thing that drives me nuts is when because of the pretty shapes the window borders become excessivly large as with Windows XP. I don't want my title bar to take up 100 pixels because it is some odd shape.
I think size and not shape is the issue to be concerned about. Too small and people might have a harder time clicking on it or reading information on it. Too big and it becomes a severe waste of space. Especially on smaller monitors.
CPU useage is a valid concern, however most modern desktop environments/window managers/display servers have code optimized to draw these types of widgets and often pass the dirty work on to the video card leaving the CPU to do other things. The average Joe with an $800 Gateway/Dell computer still has more processor power than they probaby need, and will not notice the fact that a few extra cycles are being used to draw curved window edges.
That's my point. You are aware of the problem with shrink wrapped EULA's etc, and try not to use commercial software. Thus you are depriving the corporations that use those practices of revenue which is the only way to get them to change.
BTW, the EULA useally says return it to the manufacturer not the vendor if you don't agree.
Don't purchase any software that has a 'typical EULA.' Why people think they have no choice but to agree to let the vendor off the hook is beyond me. If the product doesn't work the vendor should be liable. If you buy a blender and it doesn't work after X amount of days of proper use or at all you take it back or write a nasty letter to the manufacturer. The manufacturer will then typically work to replace the defective product.
Why is software differant? Software is ending up in more and more critical locations. The new Mercedes S500 contains a ton of software controls and sensors. You think that the first time these fail and cause a fatal crash that Mercedes won't recieve a huge lawsuit? Why is software differant? Software failures and security flaws cost businesses thousands of dollars, and yet they never attempt to hold the manufacturer accountable. It amazes me.
I don't see any need to try and please a particular crowd. When creating something new and innovative it's very easy to fall back into old habits to please certain users. The interface should have useability in mind first and foremost.
Things like animation and flashy graphics are eye candy that appeal to many people even the "Unix Crowd." If that weren't the case Enlightenment would never have been so popular and many of the things it did wouldn't have carried over into other window managers. The key is that those items can be enabled/disabled. That way those that like flashy work environments can have them and those, like yourself, that don't like flash don't have to deal with it.
Just because I have a file on my harddrive named U2-Sunday_Bloody_Sunday.mp3 doesn't mean I don't own the cd and have every legal right to use the cd.
The text of the article lead me to believe they were asking for money becuase the files were illegaly downloaded, not because they were shared. In which case I'd tell them to please try and prove I don't own the cd.
If they were suing for the act of distributing copyrighted materials that would be VERY differant. That doesn't appear to be the case though.
So hand back the shirts and say, "I hope you enjoy putting those back out on the sales floor because you just lost my business." Then drive to your closest locally owned and operated competitor, spend a few dollars extra, have a friendly no hassles experience, and support your community.
Too bad it's a vaccine for HPV not cancer. Untreated HPV infections can potentially lead to cervical cancer, but this is by no means a cancer vaccine at all. Very measleading headline. Then again it is slashdot.
Anyway! *cracks whip* back to work, no futzing around, a cancer vaccine hasn't been found.
Who said anything about using the CPU to do it. There are plenty of other ways to access the hardware directly. Of course they are beyond the means of most and extremly inconvenient for those that have the equiptment.
For most gameing I prefer a PlayStation or Playstation 2 style controller and of course there are ways to use them with a PC. USB Adapter I've seen several sites that show you how to hack older controllers to match a serial port or a gameport.
For those of us that do have boxes of cartridges filling up storage sheds or closet space emulation makes perfect sense. The fact that the majority don't have the carts doesn't mean emulation isn't usefull for those of us that do have carts. Personally I use MESS more than MAME, but that's simply because I have more old console carts than anything.
More importantly the wrong people are being blamed here. The city officials are the ones that make the decisions to do land grabs and flood zone projects. We see the same types of actions take place in my area. The differance is those officials don't last long.
That's closer to what I was thinking about. Of course it would have to be thinner, and it would be cool if the keyboard could be folded completly around to the back like a magazine. Then you could browse on the screen very similar to what is here. Maybe have a gyro or two in there to try and determine which direction you are holding the device and flip the screen to match (horizontal vs. vertical) so you could have a widescreen for viewing video and a tall screen for reading text etc. Of course I'm not kidding myself, the device that I really want is some ways off as we don't have the right kind of displays yet, but maybe it won't be too much farther off if devices like this actually take off.
I'd rather have a laptop that I could fold open completly or something. Have a switch to turn the keyboard off and go to feedback from a stylus of some sort. That way I can type on a real keyboard when I want to and browse on a pad when I don't need the keyboard. Of course it would be even better if this device was VERY thin. That's the only way I could see this being at all usefull for me. Any data entry by stylus is going to be horrid for me as I no longer write often enough to have anything be recognizable except maybe my signature. Unless of course I wrote everything really slowly which would be even more annoying than typos from the handwriting recognition software trying to figure out what the hell I just input.
Except for the fact that the article SPECIFICALLY states that it doesn't work on the same principle as dog whistles as the sound couldn't be transmitted through ordinary speakers.
I dunno, I like the width of having multiple monitors. I have two monitors on both my workstation at the office and on my computer at home. I use a combination of multiple monitors and multiple desktops. I get the amount of room per desktop I want and I get as many desktops as necessary to organize what I'm working on. What I would rather have is one widescreen monitor with multiple desktops so that space wasn't wasted by the CRT's bezels in the middle. I've looked into monitors like that but the cost seems to be a bit too high compared to the price of two high quality standard width monitors.
Slashdot Mirror
Suing American tech companies doesn't sound like they are putting the blame on China. Sounds like they are putting the blame on corporations. What you say and what you do are two differant things in my opinion.
Yes, you're right, I couldn't care less. Typical typo that I missed even with previewing before submission.
By the same token everyone providing open source is contributing to the problem by just having thier code available for anyone. Saying it's wrong is one thing. Saying it's wrong to make money off of it is another. However, you have to define what is wrong. So far I've seen "Providing the tools" as being the wrong doing. If that's the case then open source developers are just as guilty. They just aren't being compensated for thier role in this censorship.
I'd be curious to know how many viewers they actually had during the episodes that were shown. I get the impression the average television viewer is so used to Star Trek where the answer is a bunch of techno babble spewed out in the last few minutes of the show and anything is possible. Dealing with things somewhat realistically like, oh, actually reversing directions in space, are too confusing for most. Or are simply not as entertaining.
I can't tell you how many people that I showed homeworld to couldn't stand the game because they had to apply thrust in the reverse direction to stop or change course, and just pointing the nose of the ship where they wanted to go didn't take them right there.
Actually I'm a tall skinny fuddy duddy. My wife claims that I'm very dull sometimes. I just find differant things interesting.
;)
I honestly looked forward to Firefly in the hopes that network television could potentially provide an additional source of good entertainment. Especially since Sci-fi shows are so few and far between, and good ones are even more rare.
Now, my opinion of Firefly can be easily challenged being that I admitted right away I only watched the first two episodes. The dialog itself may not have been horrible, but I felt that the presentation was. With television or movies you have to have both for it to be enjoyable. I didn't find it enjoyable, and it turned me off from the show. You remarked that everyone loved it and I just felt I had to put in my two cents. That's the wonderfully annoying thing about the Internet. Anyone can chime in with thier two cents. The reason I was reading the thread is that I was hopeing there was some fairly interesting conversation or insightful comments on why the show should not be canceled. I read your comment on the technology spread to the primitive civilizations insightful, and very good. You tied it in well with reality which was a nice touch. I just wonder if things of that nature are enough to make the show worthwhile as a whole. I wanted to see if anyone felt the acting/dialog had improved. Apparently I'm in a minority in feeling that it wasn't that great. Oh well, you win some you lose some. Maybe I lost out by not giving it more time. Maybe I'm jaded by all the crap that plagues the various network channels.
I'm glad you liked the scones remark, the funny thing is, I didn't think it was that funny till I read it a second time. Then it just seemed fitting
However, you can't hold the company liable for selling them tools that can be used for censorship when that is not thier sole purpose. Cisco sells routers, firewalls, etc. The chinese government made the concious decision to block various routes in those routers, or sites in the firewalls. Cisco didn't do it for them (at least I don't see where it says they did). Microsoft sells operating systems and proxy servers and other software. A multitude of poeple use Microsoft products to get whatever they want from the Internet. The Chinese government chose to use those products to block access to various sites.
Lots of people are glad to see Linux being picked up in China. What happens when Amnesty get's pissed off that Linux is being used to violate Human Rights? Sue the Free Software Foundation?
While Internet censorship may be no better than Nazi bookburning ( I would tend to agree ) it doesn't make the act of selling software or routers to the Chinese illegal. In my opinion this is a frivilous lawsuit and should be thrown out. Amnesty should be charged for whatever fees are associated with the case for wasting tax payer dollars. What Amnesty should be doing is lobbying to make it illegal to sell the devices/software to any company that uses or intends to use them for Human Rights violations. Put the blame where it belongs, with the Chinese government, and not with corporations.
Hell, according to the article this is even more suspect. Amnesty doesn't even appear to have done any hard research, they point to various news articles as thier sources.
Did it ever occur to you that this asshole is being honest and feels that the crap on tv is exactly that, crap. I could care less about Masterpiece Theater, C-SPAN or those annoying as hell Tasters Choice commercial. Also the British snob bs you threw in was a nice touch. C-SPAN is a waste of two channels for me, I get the most basic cable package available because my wife and I realized we didn't watch anything but C.S.I. and whatever happend to be on the Discovery channel. I watched sci-fi when andromeda or farscape was on and occasionally star gate, but those were rarities. So we reduced our cable bill by over $20 bucks a month and continued to watch the same two things.
I have no desire to watch ER, WWF anything, any soap opera, or the fresh prince. Sure I watched the fresh prince when I was much younger, and the wonder years and things like that. That was ten years ago. Today I find there isn't shit on tv worth watching other than Histories Mysteries or the various Discovery specials.
I recently got in touch with a friend from high school that had joined the army and had just moved back home after being discharged at the end of his service agreement. While we were catching up tv came up because he wanted to get cable internet access, but the cheapest way to get it was to get cable tv and intenet access in a package and he didn't want the cable tv package. His reason was that the only thing he could see himself watching was Discovery. Of course his wife wanted it for other things so I'm sure they'll get it anyway. The point is that we are completly differant and have the same opinion of tv. I'm a tech geek working as a system admin and developer for a very small company. He's going to school for achitecture. We don't share any of the same interests any more, and are as differant as can be, but both feel that tv is crap. Just because you don't feel that tv is crap and become insecure when other people let you know they think it is does not give you the right to make outlandish generalizations about them.
I could also give a flying fuck what everyone else thinks of me. If I cared about that I wouldn't be posting on Slashdot. Someone made a blanket statment about everyone loving the dialog on Firefly and I simply responded that I, like the parent poster, thought it was crap. I get up early on Saturday mornings to play Barren Realms Elite and have breakfast with my wife. If the television is turned on its to watch whatever we happen to have in from Netflix, not to watch cartoons, not to watch whatever the hell "Chico and the Man" is (Telemundo is the Spanish broadcast network right?). If they were showing loony toons first thing Saturday morning I might sit down and watch them. Power Rangers? No thanks.
Sure, we are all friends here, that's why you have to resort to calling me a snob, oh, even better, a guy pretending to be a snob. If you want to challenge what I have to say, please do so. However you could at least do it without outlandish generalizations and immature insults. Or better yet, come on over some time and watch tv with us. I think "When Dinosaurs Roamed America" is going to be on again and I didn't catch the whole thing last time. I'll make tea and we can have scones.
I don't think that it's "universally agreed upon" as the parent didn't like the dialog nor did I. I stopped watching after the second episode as it made my head hurt to watch what looked to me to be forced.
I didn't find it to be Star Trek like which was nice, but other than that it bored me to death. Nothing compares to a good Sci Fi novel. Babylon 5 was good while it lasted, Andromeda is ok, Farscape is enjoyable, and well that's about it. I can tolerate Stargate SG1, but it's not something I set out to watch.
Hell, who am I kidding, the only thing I watch on tv is C.S.I. on thursday nights (not that crap thats on Monday) and various shows on the discovery channel. I used to enjoy the history channel etc, but they aren't available on any reasonably priced package from our cable company and I'm not willing to pay for 100 channels of crap for three channels I'd watch.
How is it more difficult for the user? The buttons are not external to the curve? They are inset a bit away from the curve and are clearly defined. The fact that the buttons are curved should have no effect on the users experience. If users have a hard time clicking, then those particular users may not be well suited to using computers.
The only thing that drives me nuts is when because of the pretty shapes the window borders become excessivly large as with Windows XP. I don't want my title bar to take up 100 pixels because it is some odd shape.
I think size and not shape is the issue to be concerned about. Too small and people might have a harder time clicking on it or reading information on it. Too big and it becomes a severe waste of space. Especially on smaller monitors.
CPU useage is a valid concern, however most modern desktop environments/window managers/display servers have code optimized to draw these types of widgets and often pass the dirty work on to the video card leaving the CPU to do other things. The average Joe with an $800 Gateway/Dell computer still has more processor power than they probaby need, and will not notice the fact that a few extra cycles are being used to draw curved window edges.
That's my point. You are aware of the problem with shrink wrapped EULA's etc, and try not to use commercial software. Thus you are depriving the corporations that use those practices of revenue which is the only way to get them to change.
BTW, the EULA useally says return it to the manufacturer not the vendor if you don't agree.
There is a simple solution.
Don't purchase any software that has a 'typical EULA.' Why people think they have no choice but to agree to let the vendor off the hook is beyond me. If the product doesn't work the vendor should be liable. If you buy a blender and it doesn't work after X amount of days of proper use or at all you take it back or write a nasty letter to the manufacturer. The manufacturer will then typically work to replace the defective product.
Why is software differant? Software is ending up in more and more critical locations. The new Mercedes S500 contains a ton of software controls and sensors. You think that the first time these fail and cause a fatal crash that Mercedes won't recieve a huge lawsuit? Why is software differant? Software failures and security flaws cost businesses thousands of dollars, and yet they never attempt to hold the manufacturer accountable. It amazes me.
I don't see any need to try and please a particular crowd. When creating something new and innovative it's very easy to fall back into old habits to please certain users. The interface should have useability in mind first and foremost.
Things like animation and flashy graphics are eye candy that appeal to many people even the "Unix Crowd." If that weren't the case Enlightenment would never have been so popular and many of the things it did wouldn't have carried over into other window managers. The key is that those items can be enabled/disabled. That way those that like flashy work environments can have them and those, like yourself, that don't like flash don't have to deal with it.
Just because I have a file on my harddrive named U2-Sunday_Bloody_Sunday.mp3 doesn't mean I don't own the cd and have every legal right to use the cd.
The text of the article lead me to believe they were asking for money becuase the files were illegaly downloaded, not because they were shared. In which case I'd tell them to please try and prove I don't own the cd.
If they were suing for the act of distributing copyrighted materials that would be VERY differant. That doesn't appear to be the case though.
So hand back the shirts and say, "I hope you enjoy putting those back out on the sales floor because you just lost my business." Then drive to your closest locally owned and operated competitor, spend a few dollars extra, have a friendly no hassles experience, and support your community.
Hmm. Not a bad idea.
Visit http://verizons-users-phonecalls.com now for whatever the heck it is being talked about.
Only $0.45 a minute for live audio stream.
Too bad it's a vaccine for HPV not cancer. Untreated HPV infections can potentially lead to cervical cancer, but this is by no means a cancer vaccine at all. Very measleading headline. Then again it is slashdot.
Anyway! *cracks whip* back to work, no futzing around, a cancer vaccine hasn't been found.
Who said anything about using the CPU to do it. There are plenty of other ways to access the hardware directly. Of course they are beyond the means of most and extremly inconvenient for those that have the equiptment.
For most gameing I prefer a PlayStation or Playstation 2 style controller and of course there are ways to use them with a PC. USB Adapter I've seen several sites that show you how to hack older controllers to match a serial port or a gameport.
For those of us that do have boxes of cartridges filling up storage sheds or closet space emulation makes perfect sense. The fact that the majority don't have the carts doesn't mean emulation isn't usefull for those of us that do have carts. Personally I use MESS more than MAME, but that's simply because I have more old console carts than anything.
More importantly the wrong people are being blamed here. The city officials are the ones that make the decisions to do land grabs and flood zone projects. We see the same types of actions take place in my area. The differance is those officials don't last long.
The compaq is very close to that.
That's closer to what I was thinking about. Of course it would have to be thinner, and it would be cool if the keyboard could be folded completly around to the back like a magazine. Then you could browse on the screen very similar to what is here. Maybe have a gyro or two in there to try and determine which direction you are holding the device and flip the screen to match (horizontal vs. vertical) so you could have a widescreen for viewing video and a tall screen for reading text etc. Of course I'm not kidding myself, the device that I really want is some ways off as we don't have the right kind of displays yet, but maybe it won't be too much farther off if devices like this actually take off.
I'd rather have a laptop that I could fold open completly or something. Have a switch to turn the keyboard off and go to feedback from a stylus of some sort. That way I can type on a real keyboard when I want to and browse on a pad when I don't need the keyboard. Of course it would be even better if this device was VERY thin. That's the only way I could see this being at all usefull for me. Any data entry by stylus is going to be horrid for me as I no longer write often enough to have anything be recognizable except maybe my signature. Unless of course I wrote everything really slowly which would be even more annoying than typos from the handwriting recognition software trying to figure out what the hell I just input.
Except for the fact that the article SPECIFICALLY states that it doesn't work on the same principle as dog whistles as the sound couldn't be transmitted through ordinary speakers.
I dunno, I like the width of having multiple monitors. I have two monitors on both my workstation at the office and on my computer at home. I use a combination of multiple monitors and multiple desktops. I get the amount of room per desktop I want and I get as many desktops as necessary to organize what I'm working on. What I would rather have is one widescreen monitor with multiple desktops so that space wasn't wasted by the CRT's bezels in the middle. I've looked into monitors like that but the cost seems to be a bit too high compared to the price of two high quality standard width monitors.