Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Hypes XP Tablets
Dejohn writes "Just got back from the Microsoft Tablet PC launch event here in Seattle. Aside from a couple of application lock-ups during the demonstration (they claimed internet access was down at the demo center and was causing the difficulties), the new technology looks very cool.
Microsoft Claimed it 'will recognize all your handwriting unless you can't read it yourself.'" They clearly haven't seen my handwriting. I ran into one of the Motion guys at a Starbucks in Boston and I got to see one of these machines in person and it was quite pretty. No reason you can't run Linux on them from what I saw. Additionally, Dan writes "Sure, CNET's editors got a good look at them and even the mainstream (free registration required) likes this stuff, but didn't South Korea supposedly have these last year, and running Linux at that?"
The real question is.. what is the point? What can I do with my Tablet PC that couldn't already be done with PDA, laptop or desktop?
it's been said before, but it bears saying again. i, like many of you, was raised on a keyboard. my data entry skills with a keyboard are much higher than handwriting; in fact, i'd be so bold as to say that's the case with most people of the "computer" generation.
Unless they develop some killer feature (yes yes, in ADDITION to Linux support, these notwithstanding) I've got absolutely no intention of purchasing one. I'll buy a laptop or another desktop -- my PDA is good enough for incidental use, and, conveniently enough, fits in my pocket as opposed to my backpack...
As I read the NYTimes article, and saw that most tablets included keyboards, it became clear once again that Bill Gates isn't really predicting the worldwide takeover of tablet PCs ("Within five years, I predict it will be the most popular form of PC sold in America"), but rather that within five years, most laptops (already on their way to market dominance) will feature detachable screens and a design which allows them to be used in a completely flattened-out manner.
Okay, that's nice. It's good. It'll definitely lead to new applications (read: everything that would work on a PDA if only the screen were larger), but given this level of "innovation," they probably won't be coming from Microsoft.
When is Microsoft not Hypying one of its products?
No way.
I have a few questions for anyone out there with access to one of these machines...
1. How do these tablet PCs recognized input from the stylus... do they have a touch screen?
2. Is the Tablet PC handwriting recognition better than OS X's inkwell?
3. How do you 'right-click' with the stylus? Is it something like control-click on the macs? Is there anything like a scroll wheel?
Thanks for helping out my curiosity.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
I thought the tablets were something of the medical type... to cure you from XPlitis from using the PC at work!
Imagine my disappointment when it turns out to be quite the opposite. More exposure to XPlitis infested equipment!
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers
With OSX supporting handrighting recognition,(is it good?) why isnt there any tablet powerbooks/ibooks? I know of a ibook-turned-tablet, but apple should have come out with a genuine Apple tablet by now.
My potato gun was confiscated by the United Nations. They said I wasn't allowed to have weapons of mash destruction.
Walt Mossberg had a good article about tablets in journal this morning. Personally, I think that in five years we will be laughing about "tablet hype" much in the same manner that we laugh about "thin-clients" and "push technology" today. I'm still waiting for the day when everyone uses word processors through the browser.
"Microsoft Claimed it 'will recognize all your handwriting unless you can't read it yourself."
Well, then I'm screwed...
how hot does it get and what kind of battery life can I expect?
The only difference between these and a normal laptop is the handwriting recognition. Speech rec and other apps can all be done on a normal laptop. The handwriting rec needs to be exceptionally good. I want these to succeed, I've wanted one myself for years. But everyone to come out so far has been an expensive, fragile Etch-A-Sketch.
this is not a sig
Microsoft Hypes XP Tablets
In other news, GM hypes cars. . . .
Personnally, I would have liked the words "last year" and "running linux" to be hyperlinked in the post, because IMveryhumbleO, that would have been the info to make the post valuable.
my
Is it just me, or does the tablet remind anyone of the Sharp Tripad which came out a few years ago.
.02
Don't let the pictures fool you, the keyboard and screen could be configured any which way, and you could use it as a tablet if you really wanted.
Seems like this was an idea ahead of it's time (like the newton) and far more useful than just a tablet.
Just my
One of the benefits of MS's development methodology ("we're a software company") allows them to branch out in this direction a little more easier than Apple -- of whom a lot of people have been asking if something similar is in the works due to Ink, etc. Essentially MS has shunted off the hardware cost to the likes of HP and only have to worry about the software, and they've leveraged XP for most of the software as far as I can tell.
The downside of this strategy, though, is that if the hardware folks don't see a viable market MS is going to be left with software that doesn't have a platform to run on (see Sendo and the Windows Phone). Even by Gates admission he doesn't see tablets hitting the mainstream for 5 years which makes me wonder if / how long the likes of HP will push the platform. Tablets ain't cheap, and other than geek reasons I still don't see them taking off any time soon, even in the general business sector. Batteries are going to have to last all day, weight will have to drop and durability will have increase before they become really, really usefull.
Well pen computers are common... look at Apple Newton. The original Newton 100 to 120 didn't do it right, but Apple did the right thing for Newton 2000 and 2100, sad that Steve Jobs killed it. Check Wired : Apple's Newton Just won't Drop. Also the Go pen computing operating system. Both Go and Apple suffered the "first mover disadvantage". Too early. Hand recognitions were crappy for early models.
Now let's not worry about how evil is Microsoft first. Really the reason I use a computer because I write crappy stuff and want to express my idea QUICK. I bet many people can type more than 50 words per minute. Try do that with that Tablet PC. Yea that's why the Danger PDA and the Treo comes back with the keyboard. Also if you notice from Microsoft's propaganda, other than their classic "editorial", you should be able to see that Microsoft wants people to write more of their idea in their handwritten form... okay... taking all my notes electronically, is it easier if I bring a smaller Wacom tablet with a small Sony VAIO or my beloved Powerbook ? This way I can draw and type productively. (Yea Apple adopted Newton's handwritten technology into Inkwell also)
Also, now get to the price of a $1000 to $2500 USD for one of this table, for its handwritten purposes, I might get a yellow pad papers at OfficeMax for $5 USD, still serve me well.
Also I wonder if I lose of the table PC, then I've ruin the rest of my day with it. I did that many times with my Palm.
I'd rather bet on the OQO more. Yea some of the employees are ex-Apple, somebody correct me if I'm wrong
my guess is that probably mac os x is not good enough in handwriting recognition. The most interesting thing about tablet PC is its ability to recognize your handwriting, because they have a huge database of handwritings. They have exceled the software on this. If Mac OS X was good enough on this, I am pretty sure they would introduce such a product.
But because there are so many people with TI's, there is a much bigger community and consequently more software you can use with them.
Chevy Chase: Emily, they are hyping XP tablets, not ecstasy tabs.
Emily Litella: I stand by my statement.
---
When you come to a fork in the road, take it! --Yogi Berra--
And more memory. More convenient to carry around than a laptop. Touchscreen interface. Come on, you know why these will be great.... you can take your pr0n anywhere!! And as a bonus, just wait for interactive DVD's that really make use of that touchscreen....
You can run an app in 1024x768. You can run Word and Outlook. You can play Counterstrike and aim/shoot by tapping the stylus on the screen.
.NET mag a few months back) they supposedly didn't catch on because they were like twice the cost of regular laptops. MS is hoping that vendors can make Tablet PCs cost competitive with (high-end) laptops, and thus at least one barrier to entry will be gone.
Not sure why you'd want to do that (except for the Counterstrike thing, that would be cool.)
The killer app of the tablet pc is supposed to be the "ink" technology that reads your handwritings. The reviews I've read say functionality is mixed...kinda like early voice recognition I guess. Alas I think ink is not as cool as MS does, because who doesn't know graffiti by this point? Or who can't learn graffiti in like thirty minutes? And typing is still way faster than handwriting and requires a lot less cpu...
People who handwrite stuff for a living are reluctant to actually start using a computer. They think it's beneath them (doctors at least feel this way -- to them it's data entry. ewwww.) Also the way business processes have been put together, there's a person whose job it is to take handwritten stuff and convert it to computer text, clean it up and so on. THis devie would force a paradigm shift, and ink isn't probably a compelling enough reason to change.
Being able to rotate the display from landscape to portrait, to set up the device as just a display which is secretly a fully functional computer, all that sounds pretty cool to me. Maybe it will impress clients if your sales team shows up with tablet PCs -- kinda like the receptionist always has a flat panel display. I could see browsing the web as more "fun" on a tablet, but making this slashdot post would kinda suck. (My handwriting is atrocious, by the way. But I also know how to type 40wpm.)
When tablet PCs didn't cathc on five years ago (warning: these thoughts are ripped from the article in WIndows
The same arguement could be applied to windows...
The average windows user is OK at doing simple stuff but clueless when things get tricky. The average linux user is adept at the more arcane things (like programming etc.)
Their is alot more help availble for HP cals becuase the userbase is very knowledgable. The average TI user doesn't know how to do anything beyond high school maths.
Tablet PCs have keyboards, just like regular old laptops.
You seem to be familiar with PDA technology. Do you remember the HPC-Pro that had a screen that folded back on itself (the name escapes me). The Tablet PC is similar to that, only with XP and better internal hardware.
There's been hypes before, but this one might actually make it. There is a lot of needs for this kind of device in the medical field where a pda doesn't have enough screen space and a laptop is too heavy. It is just that previous implementation were too expensive because they only targeted the medical community (volume is too small to be practical). There are already applications like Medinotes written to take advantage of tablets, so hopefully electronic medical records will become a reality.
That's easy; take your handwritten notes and open up notepad (or maybe Emacs or Vi), then proceed to type your handwritten notes into the editor. The editor will recognize all your handwriting unless you can't read it yourself.
</joke>It's 11pm, do you know what your deamons are up to?
Write on it, type on it, show it off. The Portégé 3505 convertible
tablet is a digital jack-of-all-trades with a screen that swivels and
those words should not be placed next to each other like that. it plays tricks with my eyes.
Think: replace PAPER, not nifty-new-gadget. I want to download my textbook in PDF format, and annotate it. I want to take notes in class (including math and drawings) and then organize them the way I do files on my computer. But if I have to spend a lot of time clicking and tapping to input my notes, it will fail. It has to be as easy as, or easier than paper. It's hard enough to both listen to the lecturer and transcribe the blackboard, without having to deal with the input mechanism not doing what you want it to...
Oh, and 3 hours of battery life? Forget it. That won't get me though one day's worth of classes.
-- Bob
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
Vadem Clio. I believe they got bought out. Or went bankrupt. Or something. They aren't around anymore.
As a student, I been trying to figure out how to effectively take notes in class. Considering the fact that I type 10 times faster than I can write with a pen, using a computer in class only seems logical. However, the problem comes when you have classes that requires the student to input/draw graphs, math equations and non-ascii characters. Classes like philosophy and english are great for plain-ol notebooks, but classes like economics and math/engineering related is just too hard without some kind of pen-input system. I'd like a system where I don't have some things in my notebook but some in loose-paper form. I hate carrying binders around...
So far, I've thought of a WikiWiki system that easily indexes and connects documents with some sort of applet that would allow for easy pen-input which would embed/insert the graphic within the Wiki page.
Tablet PC's allow the perfect medium of both worlds. Now I can take notes then doodle graphs/equations as I go and I have the perfect note-taking system. It's like the IBM-Notepad laptop but better. I don't have to buy a graphire pen-tablet either.
What do you think? I'd like to hear what other slashdotters think about my idea...
Did you look at the site? You use the tablet at your meeting, you return to your desk and dock it (sideways) and use it as your monitor as you go about your business with keyboard and mouse.
Its like carrying your computer with you to your meetings. Better than a laptop, because you don't have to have table space to set it on, and you don't appear to be hiding behind it. And, hopefully, it weighs less.
It seems like the most natural interface. While you're out, you write on it like a notepad. You get back, and you type with your keyboard. How's that better than a yellow legal pad? I can pull up the design document on the arcane subject we wandered into on my tablet. Everyone else is stuck with what they printed out to bring along.
I think it would be a good thing, even if the handwriting recognition is lousy. Which, of course, they claim it isn't. Who knows, on that account?
-Zipwow
I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
Most people who spend a couple of years at the computer quickly realize a few things about keyboard-based text-entry:
1. It is faster than handwriting.
2. Other people can understand what you type.
3. It is easier on foreigners who use other forms of writing (like Chinese, Korean, Japanese, or Arabic languages), in other words it is a better way to communicate in an increasingly global society.
I consider Tablet PCs a step back in the communications department. Does it have good points? yes, like the ability to draw doodles, figures, and graphs easily (that is still faster today to do it by hand than by computer commands, but only for simple graphs). My guess is that Microsoft engaged on such a proyect solely because "the man" Bill Gates transformed it into his pet project. On a small side note, if there really wanted this thing to succeed at some level I'd have done the following:
1. Focus on vertical industries only, in areas and industries where this type of devices are commonly used.
2. Develop technology to extend battery life to at least a full working day (say, 10 hours), since these devices are *supposed* to be carried arround all day, that's the point; what good would it be to have it docked recharging every 2 hours for 3 hours? for that case simply buy a laptop.
Finally, like many have commented on the net, this seems to be a breed taking everything a PDA and a Laptop does, but not taking into account the benefits of each (portability, simplicity, and battery life).
Botton line: pass this one on, and instead buy yourself a superslim notebook and a PDA-Phone like a Handspring Treo. You'll even have money left to buy some accessories.
Ok maybe ive missed something, what exactly are tablet PCs? why are they revolutionary? this is just a notebook with a stylus and maybe a wireless card. Like my PDA its going to be a bugger to write on (even with amazing handwriting recognition, writing is still slower than typing for most geeks.) It has a bigger screen - so what? so does a laptop. It can be used on the move? like my PDA? yes. WTF?? why wernt these things around before if their so amazing.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
the Tablet PC just brings us one step closer to the PADD devices from Star Trek. All they need to do is make it an LCARS interface, ditch all input devices, and make it a touch screen.
Then we'll be cooking with... dylithium...
I can't wait until someone writes a unicode handwriting recognition tool that lets me input greek letters and funky math symbols and also lets me input equations... And then imagine interfacing all of that with something like mathematica :)
:)
...and if you like mouse gestures, you could do even more with a stylus, right?
Oh and it would be cool to draw a rough sketch and have the software automatically clean it up into a nice publication-quality diagram.
Sure I can do this stuff now with latex and canvas... but a tablet computer would make this so much easier... and more fun
I'm sure there would be use in non-technical stuff too... how about networking these things to a white board during a meeting or teleconference where everyone can draw on the same white board? Or what about drawing charts and diagrams for reports?
Also drawing could be a form of data input. Say for playing starcraft and drawing out a path for a unit.
Whenever these things take off, I'm sure there will be all sorts of cool new applications for them... I'm just not sure if they'll take off just yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
Use it in one configuration, it's a normal laptop. Use it another, it's a tablet.
Amazing!
Yes, these will probably become the standard laptop from here on out. The usefulness of a swiveling screen and touchpanel is made all the more attractive because the cost is small.
The head article said "No reason you can't run Linux on them" - well I can think of one really big one. The driver to understand the handwriting is going to be in software, and would need to be reimplemented from the ground up if you stick a different OS on it.
I can't imagine that being a trivial task.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Not trying to troll, but when is it useful to save scribbles? Usually, I scribble on a napkin or whatever, but this isn't all too coherent. It's usually only useful to me when I make it a bit more coherent, and usually typed. How long do people keep srcribbles? It doesn't seem like it begs for being stored any longer than it takes me to lose it.
...
At what point am I going to look for something I scribbled 2 years ago?
I only see this useful for people who t y p e r e a l l y s l o w . .
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Hp's are crap. TI's are far easier to use, and they don't have that RPN crap. God, you have to wonder about thoses poor souls who have been brainwashed by HP into think RPN is better... At least HP admitted their wrong. No HP cals made in the last 5 years have RPN.
they won't run with linux because they rely on handwriting recognition tog et the most out of them.
Which is the sort of high price, patent encumbered research (a bit like OCR) which open source struggles with.
And don't go thinking this is coincidental with MS's love of the platform.
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
My vision for something like this is a small, thin unit maybe 1/2" thick that I can toss around the living room and grab when I want to do some surfing. Wireless, long battery life, etc.
To this end, I find this other product that Microsoft is developing more interesting: the Smart Display.
Microsoft hasn't been hyping it as much, presumably to avoid confusion with the Tablet PC, but in a nutshell it's a remote display that connects "PCAnywhere-style" to your desktop computer. This seems WAY closer to my vision of a "toss anywhere" remote computer.
It should be a lot cheaper, too, along with better battery life. I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing how these units shake out.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Typical Slashdot story:
[Insert Company Here] recently released their much-hyped new [Insert Product Here.]
[Insert Mainstream magazine here] praises the new device, while [Insert newspaper writer here] also had great things to say about it.
[Insert Slashdot editor here] asks "But Can it run Linux?"
Tere's nothing more fun then taking your $2000 Tablet PC with multimedia features and making a cursor blink next to:
bash$
Nevermind it won't do anything more. But don't dismay, it runs Linux after all!
But because there are so many people with TI's, there is a much bigger community and consequently more software you can use with them.
Huh? Check out the site in the parent post. There seems to be a ton of stuff for HP's. I'm not sure if "there is a much bigger community" is corrrent. Yes, more people own TI's, but most of them are braindead.
TThhies etss whyat's whrr0ng wWigth tthe thcabblE Pc, eiit's
[dead battery]
Tablet PC has support for Japanese character input. Surprise, surprise.
does it run OS X?
It's not enough to just run linux on it. The tablet actually has to be useful.
These things come with Windows XP Tablet edition, which has built in handwriting recognition software and special software tailor-made for the touch screen input. How much mature open source software is available for linux to make this worthwhile? Can you flip and rotate the screen on the fly with it? How easy is it to use and how well integrated is it with Xfree? Sure, some of the Zaurus apps could be ported... but point is, XP Tablet edition Works. As well as many other micro$oft products anyway, and to an end user, that's more than Good Enough.
Just be wary of knee-jerk reactions to MS, that's all.
all those places where laptops and pda's don't work well, work for a tablet.
Now granted, it's Microsoft, so it's not innovative. The Xerox PARC pads 'n Tabs was sort of the Platonic ideal. Sun's been the only folks to come out with workable computing where your session follows you (really your smart card) from screen to screen.
But getting the hardware out is a step. And yeah, wait 20 minutes for KDE, GNome, Linux and NetBSD to be running on it better than MS.
So uses? Warehouses, any place live inventory management happens. Any place a clipboard is in use. Very useful to the blue collar/labor people where a PDA is useful mostly to white collar/office people.
The Newton was too small for much of that and my Zaurus certainly is. A large screen, lightweight tablet has been a missing part of the lineup for a long time. My laptop is WAY too bulky and using a keyboard when you're walking around is impossible.
TechTV's "The Screen Savers" just reviewed the new tablets and didn't think too much of them. They complained about poor hand writing recogniton, excessive heat and poor battery life (2 hours). They didn't really understand what market they were aimed at. They web review is here, http://www.techtv.com/news/products/story/0,24195, 3406620,00.html
Like most other people, I can type faster than I can write. However, these things would be great for taking notes in class: use the keyboard to type; use the stylus to draw. It wouldn't work with a regular laptop very well: I draw bad enough with a pen; I certainly can't do it with a mouse. Also, there is no easy & fast way to type formulas and some funky math symbols, so tablet & stylus could be a step forward -- provided that it works as advertised, of course. What are your thoughts?
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
1. It is faster than handwriting.
Now only if we could get people to use Dvorak layouts, then they could be faster than faster than handwriting.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
Pop quiz: What's the difference between Microsoft's future XP tablets and their existing Pocket PCs, aside from more horsepower you don't need and larger screens, which you also don't need?
:)
Answer: Nothing.
Pop quiz: How much market share did Palm lose when Pocket PCs were introduced?
Answer: Not much.
Palms are very focused little devices, and Pocket PCs are overkill, tablets more so. You don't need PC power to do what a Palm is good at, even including basic handwriting recognition. Microsoft as usual is throwing bloat at a solved problem.
Give me a tiny, rollable (like saran wrap) keyboard (or even better - a projected holographic keyboard that I poke at in the air) and a very small PC (Vaio) and I'm rockin'.
Besides, my PC lifestyle has utterly ruined my handwriting skills anyway. I can't remember the last time I picked up a pen to write much more than my signature.
I learned years ago that it's faster to jot a number into a text file than it is to write it on a post-it note stuck to my monitor. Thus I laugh at all the post-it usage I see, when someone can just echo 000-111-2222 > bobsphone.txt.
These things might be godsends to verticals like Fedex who use this kind of stuff daily... but it'll be a long, hard sell as they've already deployed an existing solution that seems to work well for them.
Hopefully MS will lose fortunes on this endeavor and it will be known as Microsoft's Newton (if their Pocket PC doesn't already have that title.)
Though I must admit, running emulated Nintendo games on my Pocket PC was pretty awesome. Of course, MS (or perhaps Compaq) had to screw even this up: The OS or Hardware would not allow me to press a directional arrow key (to move little Mario) and press an A/B key at the same time, making basic gameplay impossible (no running and jumping at the same time, ever.) For things like Tetris it was great, but you had to pick and choose your games due to this drawback.
If someone fixed that problem alone, I'd buy another Pocket PC just for the nintendo games.
(Note: I only played backups of games I already owned. Fair use!
# Erik
2. Other people can understand what you type.
Hahaha, obvosulkjaesyo you have neverwot tried to tlako toh opme afterb 2 amas when I'have a low blood to caffeoine ratio and my hands are b=made out of byutterfinger bars.
But seriously, I agree with you on the step back in the communications department. I have had a Handspring visor for a while, and any time I had to enter anything substantial in with handwriting recognition it just took forever. A keyboard is a must for any kind of useful data entry.
I could see it being useful for web-surfing and presenting things. Other than that, it seems like it'd be more trouble than it was worth.
Of course, the Star Trek Cool Factor is rather high.
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
I've been waiting for something nice to finally come out so that I can read pdf's and ps files without having to lug my laptop around, not that I do, or print them out.
If the windows version they are running is as good as w2k that's enough for me.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
Your computer typed in [dead battery] and submitted your comment before going out!
That's really funny. Of course, you won't be able to read my response until you charge your battery again...
See you in 4 hours!
I know /. is known for representing teh mainstream non-techs who respond to "Dude, you're getting a Dell" commercials, so when I read about average consumers, I think of my 50-somthing uncle who hates computers and uses them every day.
I ask myself, would my uncle (and thus, the populous) buy this thing? The answer is no. I conclude this by the following:
* A pen is faster When my Uncle needs to write something, he isn't going to always be near his table PC and it isn't going to always be on and ready to write on. Plus, he can leave pens all over his home/car/office.
* A pen is cheaper There is no WAY he will shell out thousands to write on a computer. He wouldn't even shell out $99 for a Palm Zire.
* If he drops a pen, I doesn't break A pen goes in his pocket, it can be sat on, it can be lent out and kept and no big deal.
* A pen allows for expression He can underline, write really big or in all caps or circle stuff with a pen. He can make a note adn stick it somewhere.
*A pen gives feedback With a pen you "feel" what you are writing, slow, fast, pressing hard or lightly, etc. With (given, CE or PalmOS aren't the same) the tablet PC, there is no such feedback.
So I think this tablet may have application for people who can't type but need to do data entry. But mostly, this is what people were clamoring for ten years ago, just being delivered today. Sorry...times have changed. I have no need for this device.
Oh look, a computer!
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
I was a volunteer for the handwriting recognition group at Microsoft, so I know a little bit about how much MS has put into this technology. They have been getting random people from Redmond and other cities around the world to come in and write for an hour and a half each day, up to 2 days a week, on some kind of older-style tablet PC. This has been going on for OVER FIVE YEARS! I did it for the last year and a half, because you got free software in return (ebay), and ended up paying more than having a real job.
I saw prototypes of these Tablet PC's about a year ago at the research building, and it was impressive. The amount of work that has gone into this is astounding.
Slashdot has already covered Dasher but here comes another application. It would be the perfect replacement for that proprietary and poor handwriting recognition. It's notably faster too.
--
If you moderate this, then your children will be next.
Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a2328'
/store/default.asp, line 77
Unknown runtime error
I'd love to get one but.....
I'm not drunk, I just have a speech impediment. And a stomach virus. And an inner ear infection.
This is great when meeting clients, hooks to iPaq or PalmPilot, records all notes. Great for architects.
They got a USB model for laptops that records from a legal pad - about $200.
You could always get a Fujitsu Stylistic from eBay for $200. Just be sure to get one with functional networking.
MS has already been upstaged.
I appears to me that you are comparing the tablet pc to a PDA or a Laptop. It's both, plus it docks like a PC if you want to type or with some of the units you just flip to keyboard around. Certainly it's larger than a PDA, but it's aimed at the in-between users who function off a clipboard or who travel. I can't see any reason to buy a laptop again after attenting the launch. To have those kind of features available to you on your laptop is just a bonus. It's pressure sensitive so it's fun to draw, and the handwriting software was very impressive.
Microsoft Claimed it 'will recognize all your handwriting unless you can't read it yourself.
Gee...that's funny...I type a lot faster than I write. Of course, maybe that's why Handspring got rid of the letter pad and replaced it with a keyboard on their Treos....
This is "innovation"?
moto411.com
A PC in a tablet so that they can spy on us from the inside. And their new slogan will be:
"A PC in every stomach"
(Slashdot Warning: the above text is satirical)
He saw some dirty arabs and fired. Too bad it was just some friendly kurds, BBC reporters and his fellow cowboys.
I just bought an HP49G and guess what, it has RPN. And I use RPN because I like it.
After nearly 20 years of hardware and software development, $500 handeld computers almost have the same level of functionality of a $1 notepad.
I hear they are selling tablets for a 1.99. It's got some amazing features - handwriting recognition, cheap storage, and best yet, it can be instantly shutdown without any loss of data. It's lighter than MS versions and runs without a sound. Of course, there's a catch. You have to buy a stylus - it doesn't come included which kind of sucks because sometimes the stylus costs more than the tablet itself. It's called "Notebook" or "Notepad". A special edition will quickly follow called "journal" or something. It will be selling at all major stores, not just computer stores. Wow. Sign me up.
Why not just make a plastic overlay of a keyboard for the screen then make software that maps your taps to corrlate to the keys. I'm sure it would be easy to get up to speed one handed, pretty quick, unfornitally you'd lose part of the screen but thats the price you pay to type while walking.
This has been repeated over and over ad infinitum, but since it pops up in the topic again, I'll answer.
Lines of full-fledged tablet PC's with both digital ink and toggle-on-off-able handwriting recognition have existed for a decade. The original impetus for the IBM ThinkPad line was the PAD concept. Fujitsu has the Stylistic. Casio has the Fiva. Panasonic has a tablet PC or two, as do several other manufacturers.
Years ago I had a Fujitsu Stylistic that ran Windows 95 which had Microsoft pen extensions which would recognize my cursive handwriting, allow me to doodle, mark up Word documents and Excel spreadsheets with revision marks, take notes in "digital ink" and optionally recognize them later. I took notes on it in school. Everyone 'ooh'ed and 'aah'ed even though the machine was already years old. Apparently, people are still 'ooh'ing and 'aah'ing.
This isn't new. The marketing push is new. The technology has been around for ever in technology terms. Prices aren't even all that steep. Go to eBay and search for 'Fujitsu Stylistic' and you'll find yourself a whole gallery of Pentium-based tablet PC's in the $100 range which can run Linux (see http://www.linuxslate.org) or Windows 95 with pen extensions.
If anything is interesting about this, it's the following question: if so many people are so excited about this technology every time they see it, how come it still isn't very well known?
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Is there any free (BSD license preferably, GPL is bad for government work) handwriting recognition software for Chinese? It would be really cool to run FreeBSD on this and Chinese is the one language which benefits the most from handwriting recognition.
If they really want this to compete with the notebook market, why is it so underpowered and so expensive?
I can imagine buying one if it was roughly the cost of a comparable laptop. But it's not.
That, plus the fact that the three hour battery life makes it useless for the one market where it could be ideal - students - , means that this is going nowhere.
My. $.03
If the digitizer is already accessible (which it is if others, e.g. S. Korea, have already been using them with GNU/Linux), then the handwriting tools have already been written.
My Ipaq running Linux recognizes my handwriting just fine. So does the Sharp a colleague of mine has. I do not know if sharp's software is free(dom), but the software running on my ipaq is.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Doesn't any one remember the Mac clone tablet that a manufacturer in canada produced? this was ~4-5 years ago? No twisty screen, it was basically a 603 PPC powerbook with no keyboard. It didn't sell at all, and I can't find any info on it now.
I plan on purchasing one of these the day they come out. This is going to completely change the way I take notes and study. Imagine....instead of carrying 6 notebooks, all I'll need is this, plus all the extra benefits it comes with. Three words.... I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!
I'd imagine that this would really help people who use Photoshop a lot, like me. After all, I drew with a pencil on paper longer than I drew with a mouse, or any other such device.
Seriously people, Linux is great for programming, running servers, and basic business productivity; but Windoze just has better support from third party bussinesses when it comes to content creation. Not to mention that windoze can be a lot more idiot-friendly....(not a flame)
So this TabletPC isn't really for Linux Fans, let's just agree on that. Then we may find some practical applications for the overpriced Tablet.
They keep pushing tablet pc and they get a lukewarm reception from consumers....the companies that make these things keep forgetting that price and usefulness drives a new market.
All this talk about "tablet PC's" is a waste until they are being sold for around 250.00 to 500.00
why would I spend 2000.00 and up for it? you would have to be an idiot to spend that kind of money when you can get a High end laptop that has tons more functionality or a pda which may be small but is also relativly cheap. I will tell you what a tablet pc would be good for. when you want to browse the internet in bed or on the pot. it would be better if it was a wireless device for your PC. now THAT would be usefull.
This is another "that's cool, now where's my free stuff for attending" performance from Microsoft.
Under the right applications and circumstances, it would eliminate the repetitive type, move-hand, mouse, click, move-hand, type, move-hand, mouse, click, type nonsense that's such a pain in the neck.
However, I can't see anyone with average or better typing skills using this for anything more than reducing the amount of work to scroll pages.
Based upon my experiences with a iPaq, handwriting notes system is just too klunky. Obviously increasing the size to a tablet would really help that, but I can't imagine myself ditching the keyboard and using this for anything but checkboxes and scrolling.
If Microsoft really wants a winning innovation, how about eliminating the nagging fear I have each and every time I open an email in Outlook from someone I do not know. Now that would truly be useful!
Did Microsoft learn anything from Apple's Newton? I doubt that people will line up to get their hands on a Tablet PC, since it doesn't offer anything new. If it had come with a very advanced voice recognition, I would certainly have been giving it a second thought. But this whole Tablet PC adventure is yet another step by Microsoft to get a better foothold in the hardware market. MS continues to diversify their business...
Someone explain the point of tablet computing to me. I just don't get why this is suddenly some kind of paradigm shift, as Microsoft would have everyone believe.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Microsoft shares down a quarter of a point on news of low penetration of there new Tablet PC OS among doctors and hospitals...
NO WAY! nothing is invented until MS says it is.
YHBT. YHL. HAND :-)
Look, new technology, cool! Oh wait, it is Microsoft, so I must hate it.
I swear, same slashdotters looks at some device and automatically they think, maybe we can run Linux on that. Slashdotter's Mom: Would you like a nice cuppa coffee from my new coffeemaker? Slashdotter: Mooo oom, may be we can run Linux on the coffeemaker.
Dawn of the Dead
So whoever had seen the sales pitch, please
comment. Does this thing understand stenography?
If it does, this could be way useful for
board meetings and such and also for my own
devious needs (going to a scientific seminar
with one of those could then rock).
I can't wait until someone writes a unicode handwriting recognition tool that lets me input greek letters and funky math symbols and also lets me input equations.
I can't wait until someone gives me a job that lets me input greek letters and funky math symbols and also lets me input equations.
I can't wait until someone gives me a job.
Tat Tvam Asi
I can't speak for FedEx, and when I say that I'm speaking "for UPS," it is not the official view of my employer, my country, my neighbor, or that guy in the lobby of my apartment building who talks to the wall.
That said, speaking for UPS, we use the DIAD III (Delivery Information Acquisition Device, revision III) for delivery scans, signature tracking, and even communication with the package car drivers. The DIAD runs off a Motorola processor (couldn't tell you model number off the top of my head, but I think it's a custom job and not commodity) and a custom-built OS designed by the good folks at Corporate Technology Support Group headquarters in Mahwah, New Jersey. They've already got built-in signature pads, cellular modems, and bar-code readers, but no touch screen.
Rumor from our corporate cognoscenti has it that the DIAD IV will be similar to a tablet, running a bastardized version of MS Pocket PC 2002, and exchanging the keypad currently present for a touch screen. Also in the works are integrated two-way GPS support (broadcasting the location back to the delivery center and receiving driving directions in return for unfamiliar addresses) and two-way voice communications to replace the text messaging currently used. Net result should be a better tool for the drivers to get packages delivered more reliably.
Speaking of reliability, in the two years I've worked in the Northern Plains hub building, I've never seen the DIAD Control System software package fail, despite the fact that it was originally written for OS/2. Pretty robust code.
They that would sacrifice their
No reason you can't run Linux on them from what I saw
Oh, so you can tell by seeing, where linux cannot run.
because they have missed so many markets, and had to buy their way in (i.e. mosaic) then use their monpolistic position to gain control. this is their m.o. they wait until they see a nascent market and then jump in. this time they're taking a gamble. they are trying to be the first to market. if they win, then fine.
.NET.
/. posting a few days ago, something about m$ opening up windows? for them to drop a few hundred million, is nothing, and if it pays off, it is big. plus, by going in first, they scare off any potential competitors.
they see things like pda's cell phones, etc., and like many, see the ending of the pc as we know it. they also recognize the ending of OS dependency, thus the puch for
in fact wasn't this a
and if the tablet turns about to be another m$ Bob, they'll move on. see they have the ability to do so, where any startup would be gone.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I am so tired of everyone wanting to load Linux on every stinking device that comes out. Not that I don't think linux is great but the love to hate company Microsoft has worked really hard on the tablet applications and the handwriting stuff. I know you can load linux on your new blender but just try and use the new technology instead of loading linux on is and getting nothing done. EOF
David Vasta iSeries(AS/400) Admin & Junkie
If you guys are interested in Tablet PC's, here's a link I came across accidentally yesterday. Fujitsu's new Tablet PC. It's not like the 'detachable screen from the laptop' type.
Instead, it's a stand-alone tablet that you carry with you and use with a pen. HOWEVER, there are 3-USB-port desktop stations that you just put the Tablet into, and voila--a desktop system with a real keyboard and mouse attached. The tablet becomes the monitor--WHICH YOU CAN TILT to view in LANDSCAPE or regular view! And adjust these settings straight with one button presses straight on the TABLET, so you can easily make the tablet LANDSCAPE even without using the desktop configurator.
Also, at the end of the video, the Fujitsu guy says you can take the keyboard along instead of the whole desktop system if you're going on the road. I don't know if the keyboard plugs into that Tablet PC (didn't sound like it at the beginning of the vid.), but what you do is probably plug the keyboard straight into the tablet versus the desktop station.
All in all, pretty nifty. BUT THERE ARE PROBLEMS:
IT doesn't look like it is comfortable to hold because there aren't grips for the hands on the sides (I'm pretty sure this is the fact.) And, holding the Tablet with your right hand to write with your left you could end up pressing those screen layout buttons I just described. And of course, the cord for the pen better be long enough for comfortable LEFT-HANDED use!
Also, the scroll bars BETTER BE ABLE TO BE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN for us left-handers.
Fujitsu's 12-years-in-the-making Table PC
This is a good video sponsored by IBM but about Fujitsu and CNET's 5 minute demo video/interview. It seems to be more of a MARKETING video rather than an interview, but addresses the major questions a TABLET PC newbie could have!
Cover your eyes and click this link!
Mossberg wasn't that impressed. They've got lousey battery life. The handwriting recognition software doesn't integrate with MS's standard Office apps. You can search it and file it; but cut and paste from your written notes into Word is, at best, a one way street.
He did say they had their good points. Because of the way the screens are attached (to the models with a keyboard) you can use them in very tight places (commercial airlines were an example). And he liked the ability to read from a screen held at any angle (magazine-like).
The bottom line was, wait for 2.0. His column is availble without a WSJ subscription. You might want to give it a look.
Yes, it's true. This man has no dick.
It looks like a way for the industry to kickstart a lot of $2000 laptop sales. The hardware changes are minor ($20 WACOM custom controller, $1 hinge), and the software is good, but of a 'utility' level of capability.
After seeing what kind of laptop $1100 bought my mom (13" display, 30gb, 256mb, combo drive), this seems like a ploy to sell more $2000 laptops.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Quit smudging up my screen!!
As I read the NYTimes article, and saw that most tablets included keyboards, it became clear once again that Bill Gates isn't really predicting the worldwide takeover of tablet PCs
You're kidding, right? The very first thing I thought when I saw this was, "Wow, I'd like to get me one of these..." followed almost immediately by, "I sure hope I can get a keyboard for it!"
I would love to have one. The interface would make sense -- most of the time -- but there would be times that a mini portable keyboard (like my Stowaway for my Clie) would really come in handy. It is still a design innovation for 2002. But then with your knee-jerk "Bill Gates != innovation" reference, you are sure to appeal to the Slashdot crowd and get modded right up.
Maybe there will be some convergance between laptops and PCs and we'll get the best of both in 2007. In the meantime -- this really is an innovation, bigot, and I for one don't mind seeing the Microsoft juggernaut behind it.
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
... Newton.
The 2100 (circa 1997) ran at 162 mhz, and some people ran webservers off theirs.
Didn't run linux (as far as I know), but it could read my handwriting, which has been known as "chicken-scratch" for the last dozen years or so...
Its that technology that was put into Inkwell.
The Newton was a better tablet than any tablet could be.
i call bs. i played with one on tuesday, and if you write slowly then it'll work, but try writing at normal speed and it won't pick up text completely. also, the space to write in is HUGE. don't know if that could be adjusted or not, but nothing jumped out on how to
Why do I have this vision of Mel Brooks as Moses: "I bring you these 15 (he drops a stone tablet that shatters), er, 10! that's right, 10! Commandments"!
I guess that makes "P" the world's first art critic....
Bill Gates told a recent trade show crowd, "Within five years, I predict it will be the most popular form of PC sold in America.'
This is a good lesson about how to create a self-fullfilling prophecy. Of course you have to be famous to do it.
the future is gelcaps.
word.
Nostrodamus he ain't
I agree with this parent. Who really needs RPN? I'm doing electrical engineering in my junior year in my BS and I haven't seen hide nor hair of it. RPN is just a toy that nerds use to separate themselves from "the common folk". Kind of like the language twins invent so they can isolate themselves from everyone else.
Grow up, if RPN was important, they'd teach me by now. Well, they didn't so it's not. If you can't deal with parenthesis, you shouldn't be doing math.
I found an interesting web page (http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~mleach/revpol/)and I'd like to quote from it:
In talking to students who have HP calculators, I have not found one who knows the rpn algorithm.
For something to be popular, it doesn't need to be better. Dvorak or other keyboard layouts have been proven to let the learned user type faster than QWERTY layouts, but what layout does the majority of keyboards use, that's right, QWERTY.
If you want RPN to be the standard, get teachers to teach it instead of traditional equations.
If you want Dvorak or another keyboard layout to be used more, build and sell the keyboards for less than QWERTY's.
On a side note, I love my TI-89 more than HP calculators if only for the fact that the TI-89 has a much better resolution, the 49G has the same resolution TI-82's had and it feels like I'm in the 6th grade.
...and don't buy one, because you're not in their target market.
"And like that
1. Microsoft, after conducting polls consisting of them seeing if they can get the average person to call it "cool", decides to spend billions on development of cheap, portable flat panels, efficient power supplies, and come out with a $500 version of a tablet PC that stores an 8-hour charge overnight, with extra rechargeable batteries $20 a pop.
2. People decide they'd rather have a keyboard, and a non-specialized operating system, so just get laptops instead.
3. Nintendo and sony release portable gaming devices with HUGE LCD displays based off the defunct technology that they buy off all the companies that went along with the Tablet PC idea.
Or perhaps it'll just end up an extension of the X-Box in a few years. Just so long as the development of the displays gets done - otherwise, all we have are crippled laptops without keyboards, or a moderately bulked-up PDA, depending on how you look at it. I guess it's still better than the "Internet Appliance".
Ryan Fenton
Tablets will never replace laptops for most users
Perhaps true, perhaps not. However, the better question to ask is how many NEW AREAS can computers enter due to this new style of computing system?
In the industry I work in, I already have some very cool ideas where these could be extremely successful, where no other computing system currently fits... a paradigm shift.
"And like that
yes this isn't the first TabletPC, sorry microsoft
My first, and for obvious reasons last, tablet pc has no winshit drivers for it's pen input dealy. I'm torn between scrapping it for parts, integrating it into a robot, and making write-on display for my iBook.
We geeks are nothing without our 140+ gwam CLUIs, fancy three button mice, and source code.
Has anyone else noticed that macs, which can get context menus by holding down their only button, would be a much better choice for tablets? If their handwriting recog is as good as their speech recog they could overtake winshits within a year.
For me, it'll be a mac laptop and a PeeCee server, both with Linux, for quite a while.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Not until someone writes some linux device drivers for the special screens and pens they use which arent the same as your typical stylus and touch screen lcd.
If anything is interesting about this, it's the following question: if so many people are so excited about this technology every time they see it, how come it still isn't very well known?
Maybe the technology has finally caught up the idea? Can you really say that this same EXACT technology has been around for a decade? We all know the IDEA has been ATTEMPTED before, but compare the end products. How do those $100 ebay jobbies compare to this new iteration? The new iteration has:
- More power. Modern speeds and capabilities.
- Better screens, better input recognition, better pen technology.
- Better handwriting technology (by most accounts)
- Better integration between the OS, the apps, and the pen
- Better docking capabilities (carry the tablet with you for writing, dock it later and use it as your monitor/cpu on your desktop.
There are all kinds of ideas that are attempted numerous times, failing constantly until the technology catches up to the idea. How do you know this isn't one of those times?
"And like that
I will tell you what a tablet pc would be good for. when you want to browse the internet in bed or on the pot
I think if you are too stoned to type, you would be too stoned to use a pen.
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
n/t
The full court press has begun.
Bill Capital??
The tablet PC is radical advance. And Bill put his heart and soul in it.
MSN 8 is just wonderful. Online Service Space. Parental Control? Spam control? These are the important things??
The tabletPC is our destiny-- HP, Toshiba
Notetaking. Cut and Paste Screens. JOURNAL--
Bill is left handed.
How many are they going to sell? 100,000s
Lawyers in NY are trying it and loving it.
Windows XP.
Digitizer
200 dollars over the price of a laptop.
A demo with a crash.
..."
I had one about ten years ago. A scientific project that I was working on had a press conference (CNN, Boston Globe, PBS, etc... attended). My program was used to display the data, and this program was going to be a central part of the demo.
Unfortunately, I was not the person that would be operating the program. Instead, some "kids" (think 18-20 year old) would run it in front of the media.
Unfortunately, I had to make serious changes to the graphical part of the program (think changing from horizontal to vertical display of data) a few weeks before the demo.
There was a pointer/memory addressing problem that I could not debug. The program would sometimes crash at somewhat random times. I was terrified.
Fortunately, I was asked to introduce the program. This is best that I could do.
"The display that you see is blah, blah, blah. These people are going to demonstrate how they analyze the data. However, I should point out that the program is not fully debugged and there is sometimes problems. If you just saw the movie Jurassic Park,
I can't believe I'm replying to my own troll...
I wrote the parent post. It was a troll. RPN is better. Seeinhg as how you are doing EE, I'll even give you an example:
5 resistors in parallel; 4,5,6,7,8. Find equ resistance:
TI: 1/(1/4 + 1/5 + 1/6 + 1/7 + 1/8)=
24 keys
HP (note: ~ is 1/x key)
: 4 ~ 5 ~ 6 ~ 7 ~ 8 + + + + ~
14 keys. Looks tricky written like this but makes sense when typed into calc. Saves lots of time on tests.
Btw, The reason schools promote TI's is because TI gives teachers / lecturers free calculators to do so!
I think I've been metatrolled.
Will these get rid of the pounding headache I get whenever I have to even look at XP's candy interface?
Lump lingered last in line for brains, and the ones she got were sorta rotten and insane.
I got an Acer TravelMate C102i (the convertible one, with wireless networking) on Tuesday, and already I've switched to taking all my notes on it. I recommend one to any college student who can afford one... On a side note: My handwriting is BAD, and it recognizes easily 99% of my henpecks.
This statement is solely an opinion. Kindly take it as such in all cases.
It can recognize my handwriting?? I haven't written in years, I'm not sure I could recognize my handwriting.
The actual control logic takes about 10 lines of code, and has very few pending values [just the stack]. Further more, the RPN logic needs to know nothing about what's in the stack (eg matricies, complex numbers). One is not dependent on the manufactures implementation of pending operations. In an algebraic calculator 3*4+2*5 can give all sorts of different values, eg 22, 70. The same command in RPN is 3~4*2~5*+ (~ is enter) alwaus gives 22. This lopks strange, but is the exact way you would do the calculation yourself: get 3, get 4, multiply. Get 2, get 5, multipy. Add the two together.
Of course, algebraic calculators are not strictly algebraic, eg cos 60 is entered as 60 cos in both systems.
In practice, the last time I looked, RPN was doing quite well with the financial crowd, since both it and tape-calculators (ie += -= logic) take the operator after the number. That is, to add 5, one goes 5 + or 5 +=, rather than + 5.
If one is used to using prefix-operators, you will find the algebraic form easier and faster. If you find the postfix-operators, you will find RPN and Strip-adders easier to use. If you normally expect people to be able to use your calcualtor, you should have both kinds at your desk.
OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
Great, 10 keys on one example. How much time does it really save, 8 seconds? If you need 8 seconds, you shouldn't be doing math. Math isn't something you do when seconds count. Speed makes mistakes.
Anyway, how does it stack up when I'm trying to solve 3 simultaneous equations with imaginary parts (doing sinusoidal stead state analysis with RLC circuits)? I can use the cSolve() function on my TI-89 and enter in the equations as I see them which means no intermediate step to convert conventional equations to RPN and that means very little chance of making a mistake.
I'm genuinely interested in how an experienced RPN user would handle this.
- More power. Modern speeds and capabilities.
- Better screens, better input recognition, better pen technology.
- Better handwriting technology (by most accounts)
- Better integration between the OS, the apps, and the pen
- Better docking capabilities (carry the tablet with you for writing, dock it later and use it as your monitor/cpu on your desktop.
And the most important thing: a whole NEW set of little 24-bit color windowsy clicky-clicky icons to click on all the clicky day with drop shadows and color butterflies and if we can just string them all together with DirectOLE/DDE/ActiveX/.NET extensions and object-oriented visual basiclets I can start a new clicky clicky company and follow the billy butterfly to my fortune and mansion.
My dad is an insurance field adjuster--he handles homeowners water damage claims. Ostensibly, he's the market that the tablet pc is trying to reach, because much of his work is done on the road at people's houses. However, I cannot see any additional benefits that he would get over his laptop. He wouldn't use the handwriting recognition because he doesn't write anything by hand as it is. His laptop does everything he needs, and with the insurance apps he uses, it's not going to be any easier entering the data with a pen than with a keyboard (especially since he almost never writes anything by hand).
Eagles may soar, but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines...
the last time I actually wrote something down. My handwriting used to be legible but now . . . who knows?
Hopefully writing is a skill like riding a bicycle.
Come to think of it it's been about 4 years since I rode my bike too.
Having handwriting captured as an image is nothing new...drawing tablets have been capturing pen input as images forever. Applying OCR software to an image of handwriting is not much different from applying it to a scan of a magazine article. It took Microsoft this long to come up with something so hackish?
Apple has InkWell, which works directly on handwriting input. I eagerly await their version of a tablet PC, which will clean the floor with Microsoft's vision of the future.
Don't get me wrong--tablets (although probably with some kind of thin touch-sensitive keyboard as an option) will probably become the preferred form of portable PC...if not the preferred PC altogether. But the Windows world will be playing third fiddle to Mac and Linux implementations.
Well ... I tried to read through all these posts to see something similar .. but my attention span is short while ER is on.
.. Mac OS X :)
It seems that the flaws in the Microsoft design have been pointed out already, so I'll talk about what I want to see:
At any rate, this is what my 'tablet PC' would and wouldn't have:
bluetooth/802.11b/UWB??
no keyboard (except via bluetooth)
no networking (except wireless)
no mouse (except the stylus or bluetooth)
no USB/firewire
no optical drive
no hard drive (it needs something lighter and less power hungry with a large capacity - sounds unlikely but there is probably something out there)
a low power processor (somewhat low power - like a laptop proc)
8.5 X 11 size, less than an inch thick (maybe half an inch or less - there is nothing there).
very light, perhaps even less than a lb
handwriting and symbol recognition for taking notes
LONG battery life. At least a days worth.
And
Why? I want something like paper, but easy to make the data digital. All the features are nice, but they add weight. I want it light and thin!
Inkwell isn't nearly as good as Newton was, so I don't know what the deal is there. The Newton was far better at getting my chicken scratch than Inkwell is at getting my neatly printed characters. I'll wait for a future rev.
Of course, maybe I just suck at using a Wacom with alphaa drivers.
There is plenty of Linux handwriting recognition software out there (among others, from the handhelds.org effort), and speech recognition software can be adapted for handwriting as well. And X11 has had provisions for alternative input methods for many years. Ink notebooks, annotations, and all that are old technology as well and are not all that difficult to code up.
The only thing that has been missing up to this point is reasonably priced hardware. Now that that is there, Linux will move into that space as well.
Because I've personally seen both devices.
Honestly, other than the fact that the Stylistic I used only had a P5-120 and 80MB memory, there isn't much difference beyond mere "refinement" -- and not much of it at that. And a P5-120 with 80MB is enough to run most modern software (including Mozilla).
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
How about being able to enter data (yes, using the insurance apps) at any time that's convenient...walking about surveying damage, or whatnot. That's the kind of convenience a tablet format with touchscreen gives you. It's not all just about handwriting input. Getting away from the need to set the PC down on a table and navigate an app with trackpad and keyboard is helpful in itself.
firstly, saving 8 keystrokes isn't really such an issue timewise, but that's 8 cheances less to make a mistake. Granted my example was very simple. RPN saves alot more time in a test.
3 simultanios equations? Piece of cake...
1. Put in Coeff Matrix
[ [ 3 5] 4 2]
stacks shows
|3 5|
|4 2| in pretty matrix display
2. Invert matrix - pres 1/x button
3 enter result matrix
[[5]6]
4. press multiply.
that's it. No reason to enter the polynomials with RPN. You could if you wanted to, but I'd just use matrices.
Not sure if anyone else caught it, but he was on Charlie Rose tonight. Hyping the tablet.
Charlie asked him if he was scared of linux and he said that they took it very seriously. He also mentioned privacy concerns of end users (without actually mentioning Palladium directly) and talked about their continuing investment in R&D.
No big whoop.
can see this becoming a must have for physicians especially the wireless connectivity. It could be used during rounds to pull up patient's charts from the database, update progress notes, order new medications and have them checked for drug interactions on the fly. You could order labs pull up previous old lab results, checkj radiology reports etc. And you could instantly send new orders into the database which would be automatically routed to the lab or pharmacy. MD's have been very enthusiastic adopters of Palm Pilots and I can see hospitals shell out the money to set up a system using this. It would save a lot of time, money and paperwork. I hope the handwriting recognition is up to par because doctors are notorious for having bad handwriting
When I say "POT" I meant the toilet :)
you know.....sittin' on the pot.
Will you get a headache taking those tablets?
Those incapable of doing 2 arithmetic operations at once will never understand my sig.
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
You lost information. When you take a square root of a positive number, you get two results - the positive and the negative root.
SQRT(1) = +1, -1
Therefore, your 2nd to last clause should in fact read: +/-1 = +/-1.
Or alternatively, just remember that the square/SQRT pair is not reversible if you throw away the sign info; that is, if you square -1, the square root is always 1. You cannot substitute back in -1.
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
As mentioned the ink can be recognized later if you like, but more interestingly, it is possible to search the ink itself for keywords at any later date. Because the recognizer generates a number of possible matches for each word, and ranks the matches based on certainty, it is possible to search very ambiguous text and find possible matches. These capabilities are available through the API, so it would be possible to create a more interesting note management application.
... time to go do some programming.
Hmmm
If you ever stop and watch these people write, using the synchronous handwriting recognition "feature," they're writing as though they've just learned how to write in cursive. When the demonstrators were writing at normal speeds they had tons of trouble recognizing the input. As speed is concerned their own slides conceded that typing IS FASTER than writing on this pad.
Also.....to install software on these things you need to mount the tablet in a docking bay. When I informed the salespeople how stupid it was, they said that it had wireless capabilities and it would be easy to download software. So next time I think I need some Microsoft software, I believe I'll fire up Kazaa on the wireless capable TabletPC and download me some good ol' Microsoft products.
Microsoft Hypes Microsoft product!
;)
Some news
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
These numbers still have to be entered into a computer later on to be crunched (via excel usually), errors happen as a result of messy handwriting transferance, resulting in big headaches. Solution: Use the tablet PC to enter the numbers directly into excel as they're standing at the machinery. Crunch there. No mess, no errors, instant results.
This is the market of the tablet PC. Not your uncle.
-
get a mac and you don't need any extra buttons. just tap to click like you do with the track pad.
Didn't Windows 3.0 for Pens come out in 1989?
Features sound similar to me.
It seems to me that, given a device shaped like an "etch-a-sketch" tablet (with no attached keyboard portion), you'd be able to do some more interesting things with batteries.
You may recall some of the notebooks from companies like Micron, that achieved 10+ hour battery life when a big battery "slab" was snapped onto the bottom of the laptop. It made the latop thicker, all the way around, but it did the job. It seems to me people would find this type of battery much more acceptable if it was on the back of a fairly thin LCD panel/tablet. After all, there's nothing else to carry but the screen portion. When "docked" as a vertical-standing monitor, you wouldn't really notice the big battery on the back. That way, it wouldn't detract from the "sleekness factor" of the overall system.
Why not write on a notepad at the meeting, then come back and scan the notes into your desktop/laptop with your $100 scanner?
I agree that the tablet is a really neat idea, but not at its cost. When it gets down to sub-$500, and has a 10hr+ battery life, then it will take over.
I agree. The problem is, every new technology that's released and fails becomes doubly hard to re-release the next time, no matter how many refinements are done.
I think "pen computing" is one of those ideas that has such a "gee whiz" factor, people rushed to sell software/hardware using it way before its time.
I know when I think of pen computers, I think of clunky systems running Windows 3.11 for Pen computing with bulky pens on coiled cords. I don't really think of a sleek, high-resolution tablet, with a cordless pen - and the ability dock vertically as a display for a keyboard and mouse on a desk.
So yeah, at this point, who *but* Microsoft is going to spend the advertising dollars to once again try to sell the latest "update" to this decade-old tech?
Apple probably did more for the idea than anyone else with the Newton - but its relative lack of ability to recognize handwriting accurately doomed it to being made fun of in Saturday cartoons. The fact they ditched the whole product line rather than make further attempts at revisions spoke volumes to the masses about their "belief" in the pen computing idea.
There's a lot of "damage" to undo before it'll sell big this time around.
Then, you'd have your peripherals. They'd be wireless (presumably bluetooth or somesuch), communicating with the computer over an encrypted channel (even without the security concerns, you'd obviously want your devices to only be trying to connect to your computer). So, if you want to use a tablet, you just pull the tablet out of your briefcase, switch it on, and it connects with your computer. If you want an eyeglasses-type display and a handykey, you switch those on instead. If you're most comfortable with the laptop paradigm, an ultrathin lcd screen plus keyboard should be availabe too (possibly the screen would double as a tablet, above).
This is, as I see it, the ultimate solution. Rather than carrying around a half dozen different but somewhat redundant devices (cell phone, pda, mp3 player, laptop, etc.), wouldn't it be great if we could just have one always on processor, and just had to bring whatever input/output devices we wanted along with us?
I'm pretty tired here, sorry if this is a little incoherent, but what do people think?
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Certainly slashdot prefers Apple to Microsoft. MacOS X is pretty amazing - a consumer-ready Unix OS. Everyone, Windows-user or Unix-user or computer illiterate drools over a TiBook running OSX. (Lots of us have second thoughts about slowness, cost, compatibility and freedom.) I don't care how many machines Dell sells; I've never seen their products elicit Apple-scale reactions. At least for now, Apple is producing much more interesting and admirable products than Microsoft. TiBook, IPOD, OSX, Airport versus what, MSN and XDOCS (which were front page stories anyway)?
Apple's products are interesting in themselves - Microsoft's and Dell's products are interesting only from a business perspective. Dell figured out how to overcharge lazy people for a generic PC - that probably makes them fascinating to MBA's.
> I can't wait until someone writes a unicode handwriting recognition tool that lets me input greek letters and funky math symbols and also lets me input equations... And then imagine interfacing all of that with something like mathematica :)
:)
:)
...and if you like mouse gestures, you could do even more with a stylus, right?
:)
.Net infrastructure in a way that the Open Source community will have a difficult time cloning. Oh, and TabletPC is Media Center is Windows XP SP1+. They just have slightly different hardware requirements.
Well, Office XP is based on Unicode (how else do you think they can ship it in 40+ languages). And if it can recognize Chinese and Japanese characters, then it should be able to get greek. I'm not sure about equations, this is a great opportunity, though.
> Oh and it would be cool to draw a rough sketch and have the software automatically clean it up into a nice publication-quality diagram.
I've seen them demo this on the TabletPC. What's more impressive is their demo of writing at various angles and vertical text and lists, etc.
> Sure I can do this stuff now with latex and canvas... but a tablet computer would make this so much easier... and more fun
I get to play with one every so often, being that I work at MS, and taking technical notes is amazing on this device, almost as if that's all the designers wanted to do with it.
> I'm sure there would be use in non-technical stuff too... how about networking these things to a white board during a meeting or teleconference where everyone can draw on the same white board? Or what about drawing charts and diagrams for reports?
There's a plugin for Office XP which enables you to use "ink" in the apps, draw on PPT presentations while you give them (you can already do that today by hitting Ctrl-P and using the mouse, but the pen is a little cooler and it is pressure sensative), and they also have an IM mode for drawing diagrams into Windows Messenger. Finally the shared whiteboard feature in Windows Messenger (originally Net Meeting) has a place.
> Also drawing could be a form of data input. Say for playing starcraft and drawing out a path for a unit.
TabletPC ships with a game called inkball or something like that. Basically a video game played with the pen it's supposed to be more entertaining (addictive) than solitare and minesweeper
> Whenever these things take off, I'm sure there will be all sorts of cool new applications for them... I'm just not sure if they'll take off just yet.
They may take a while to take off, but Microsoft has wasted no time in research, gathering patents, partners, and preparing Windows and
Tablet PC's have emerged several times in the past, always fascinating and tempting, but never making it.
Compaq had one back in the Winodws 3.x days with detachable keyboard, since then several others have attempted one version or another - Fujitsi-Siemens, IBM with the the TransPad hybrid, but it seems when it comes down to it people want the lower price and the keyboard. Had to get a keyboard for my Palm and went with a PSION in the end, but the tablet PC has its markets (storage, traffic cops, etc) though I do not expect them to make it maintream yet.
The one difference is that now tablet PC's have the marketing force of M$ behind them, which has helped inferior products win before.
Just my 0.02
- Kenzai, Master of the Little Penguin. "Long Live BeOS...ehhh, where is everybody going!?"
> There is plenty of Linux handwriting recognition software out there (among others, from the handhelds.org effort), and speech recognition software can be adapted for handwriting as well. And X11 has had provisions for alternative input methods for many years. Ink notebooks, annotations, and all that are old technology as well and are not all that difficult to code up.
> The only thing that has been missing up to this point is reasonably priced hardware. Now that that is there, Linux will move into that space as well.
EXCEPT that when you buy a TabletPC device, it comes with Windows XP TabletPC edition. It is not available without the Windows XP software, and until Linux comes up with a counteranswer that runs on the same hardware, this point makes your points moot.
If I am HP, and you try to sell me Linux Tablet 1.0 for my device I built to MS' spec, you are too late. MS designed TabletPC 5 years ago, and has 5 years head start implementing it all.
Think that the bazaar is better than the cathedral? Well, I don't believe it. Microsoft pays people who design, people who develop, people who test, people who support, and people who maintain the products. Microsoft pays people to market and sell these products to various companies and partners. Microsoft builds around these products and technologies, and protects them through patents, anti-piracy, etc.
Microsoft's 5 years of work on this product from the developer division, the office division, the windows division, the emerging technologies division, and the research division represent an investment of billions of dollars. It is organized, and it did take longer than 5 years of all of these divisions working together to pull this off. Thinking that you can just clone TabletPC overnight and have something remotely close to Microsoft's product is naive at best.
By the time a Linux distro competes and comes preinstalled on a TabletPC, Microsoft will already have 99% of the Tablet market. At that point, you have to maintain compatability with Windows XP Tablet PC edition in order for people (non zealots) to begin to want your OSS instead of MS. And by the time you catch up to TabletPC version 1.0, Microsoft will have fixed all the bugs and will release the next one with better hardware requirements, which will put your Linux distro to shame with technologies you hadn't yet figured out to clone from Microsoft and more MS patents to work around.
In order to compete with Microsoft, you actually have to beat them to it. Otherwise, you'll have to work around their patents and their technology changes. No Linux distribution can make technology like the TabletPC happen. Only a company can do that. It's just like the XBox. You can figure out how to get Linux to work on it, yeah it has a CPU. DUH! But unless you get off on the reverse engineering (which I admit is fun for a time) why would you really want to buy it for that?
Unlike the XBox, Microsoft makes a hefty profit for every TabletPC you buy, especially considering that you can't buy it without TabletPC. Also, most people will also have the Microsoft Office XP + TabletPC plugin pack preinstalled.
Irony strikes again: in order to develop Linux for the Tablet PC, you are going to have to convince HP or some other TabletPC vendor to sell you one without the MS OS or you'll be paying Microsoft... Unlike Windows XP, TabletPC Edition is only sold directly to OEMs who produce Tablets in such a way that they can only sell it with a new computer, so if you buy one without it, you can't get TabletPC for it. Thus, it makes no sense for them to sell the TabletPC without it.
Sure, go ahead and buy one. By the time these are cheap enough, everyone who's not a geek will be using Microsoft Office 2005 with TabletPC pen support, voice recognition, and who knows how many other Microsoft technologies. The fact that the price of the software is hidden by the hardware price eats up your free as in beer argument. Nobody except certain geeks care about the speech argument. Microsoft is required to publish just about all APIs, and it certainly does publish all of the APIs which are useful today. The TabletPC API is available today. When will the TabletLinux API be written? How many groups will attempt it? KDE or GNOME? Raw X11? WINE? CrossoverOffice? Will XOver run Office XP?? SP2?? Certainly not the Beta of Office 11...
> I'd rather bet on the OQO [oqo.com] more. Yea some of the employees are ex-Apple, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
According to their site, their device is based on Windows XP... probably (you guessed it) Windows XP TabletPC Edition.
Jees, way to piss your pants there, Chicken Little.
C H I L L T H E F U C K O U T.
Someone mentioned something about price, and I agree with not only that but computers in general. Something like the tablet PC could work, because it would be a good machine for current non-computer-users. Ease of use is another key, and using one input device (a pen which has a direct real world counterpart) versus two (a mouse and keyboard) would probably make it easier to start using a PC.
I've been using a tablet PC (Viewsonic Viewpad 1000) for several months with Linux. The touchscreen works fine, there's an on-screen keyboard, and while I haven't bothered to get xstroke (Grafitti-like, full-screen handwriting recognizer) working, there's a Debian package and I have used xstroke a lot on the iPaq -- It Just Works.
My company is planning to use them as portable wireless point-of-sale systems for restaurants. They allow waiters' orders to get back to the kitchen and bar a lot faster, which can speed up table turn times by a couple of minutes. May not sound like much but it's important to restaurant owners.
Bill Gribble
Linux Developers Group
My "knee jerk reaction" when I see fire is not to touch it (guess why).
Make your own inferences.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It is just a laptop with its screen on the outside instead on the inside where it is safe from scratches and other harm... How production faults can be elevated into new products... Sheesss....
Linux is for Windows Haters, BSD is for Unix lovers
I will tell you what a tablet pc would be good for. when you want to browse the internet in bed or on the pot.
Yes, on the pot...that's why the price has to come down...so I can afford both.
I want to be alone with the sandwich
No reason you can't run Linux on them from what I saw.
After you've gotten it on your car, your toaster, and you craftmatic adjustable bed and finally get around to putting it onto the tablet, let us know how many kernel recompiles and driver hacks you needed so we can all spend a weekend or three putting it on every piece of electronics in sight.
if this is running Windows XP and doesn't have a keyboard, how am i going to hit ctrl+alt+del?
I know somebody, somewhere is working on a pen that captures everything that's written. That's what is needed, not a tablet. Give me a pen that knows who I am, and records what I write and either on the fly or when I get near what ever I designate as the home machine pushes the contents into it. Fits in my pocket. I can drop it and pick it up. I can lose it and it won't give away my secrets. Don't want no stinkin' tablet....
No, I said 3 simultaneous equations, that means 1 3x3 identity matrix, invert that, multiply it times the answer 1x3 matrix to get your solution matrix (you probably know the steps, but for anyone watching). Finding the solution to 2 simultaneous equations is much easier than for 3.
Because you asked for it....
Linux Coffee HOWTO
Your example of the algebraic calculator and RPN calculator figuring that simple equation is pretty weak in the nature that people that use algebraic calculators know how their calculators behave. Algebraic calculator owners know the perils of entering an equation like that without explicitly using grouping symbols. In fact people that use algebraic calculators are better at doing math in their mind, so using a calculator becomes irrelevant. Sure, you and I and others could do that example, but what about more complex examples, including fractions? A friend of mine in some of the same classes up until recently had only a solar scientific calculator and he could simplify faster than most people. True, he had to use Cramer's Rule to solve simultaneous equations. He recently bought a TI-89 to do matrices and simultaneous equations much faster and he doesn't have to deal with Cramer's Rule on tests now.
I do understand how RPN behaves just by this thread of posts that my original post is the parent for. I feel that RPN is an unnecessary step to solving math equations. It may save a few keys here but lose some keys there, but the time it takes to learn RPN and use it seems like a waste. I'm waiting for someone to tell me how RPN would improve my engineering career (I'm a Computer Engineer, junior year). If you could tell me "well, RPN will save you half the time on type X problems" then that would really say something about RPN notation and change my fundamental position on RPN, but I haven't seen that yet and I'd still like to.
Just my 0.02 what do they call a Euro penny?
them...
I can even see a Tablet being very useful in teaching kids how to write. (Follow the rabbit around while he traces out a capital Q.) If handwriting recognition is hard for computers, well, we can teach kids to write in a way that saves CPU cycles and improves accuracy.
Just imagine: the apple-of-your-eye comes home from school and shows you the handwriting she learned today: perfect "Times New Roman"!
(this is not a
Be sure to click all the banners you see for this product! Suck up that MS money! (Not only that, but you'll be supporting the site that has the ads up.) So, when is /. getting these ads for us to click on?
The Ohio river. That would be fun. I bet these things could be skipped a couple hundred feet by a really big guy.
I haven't seen the TPC obviously, and I know the media likes to simplify things, but the Newton (and plenty of other gadgets and apps) wasn't a failed technology as much as it failed to capture the zeitgeist (can't believe I just used that word) of a number of users able to sustain said technology.
I am sitting in the library taking notes on my cool new TabletPC when the urge to pee sends me to the restroom. When I come back, my cool tool is gone. GONE. Now that is a cool trick. I guess I have to pack my next TAbletPC to the toilet with me. Now the library will have to come up with a holder next to the urinal or in the stall so that i have a place to put my cool tool(the tabletPC that is).
at a Starbucks
At Starbucks was it?
Really! At Starbucks.
Did you say Starbucks.
Do I smell a blatant plug or just bad coffee ?
cL0h
WHY the hell are you here?? What kind of loser hangs out on a board that he or she has so much contempt for the people running the website?
BTW. Thin clients are great for many business uses. Not all. But many.
RPN is an easy process to implement in code. It is also very useful when you can't pass parameters in a call. This is because an operation like + or * finds the inputs in the stack, and leaves the stack in a known condition. As a result, *only one operator at a time* is in use.
If you are using something that has an open arena, or variable pool [such as BASIC or REXX], then because only one operator is active, *all operators* can use the same internal variables.
If the stack is implemented as an array [A, L, X, Y, Z, T, pi, memory], one can implement storage and recall operators by pointing the pointer at memory.
If you think that RPN is something to do with post operators, eg 5,3+, there are differences between the commercial 4-deep implementations of RPN and the infinite stack.
But basically, RPN is just a different way of doing things.
OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
Maybe I should have mentioned that I trust MS's text conversion software about as much as I trust my cat to babysit a bird.
Seriously, I've never known OCR to be more of an aid than a pain in the ass.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
My contractor would love this...
until he left it in his truck one day and the thing baked or froze. Paperweight status.
until he gets paint on it, in his rush to get a phone number of a supplier. Wall art status.
until he drops a hammer on it, in the back seat of his truck. Paperweight status.
^^^^^^
My science teacher would love this...
until some urchin decides to make it his own. Stolen property status.
until some some urchin uses a permanent marker on it. Wall art status.
until batteries run out during a presentation. Back in bag status.
until coffee gets spilled on it. Paperweight status.
require more power than a pda provides and need a full PC. Excel is the most commonly used one, but they interface with much larger engineering apps.
-
I've had this idea kicking around in my head for awhile now that I (internally) refer to as the 'boomerang'. It would be an LCD screen with an 802.11 connection and a GPU, pen-input, a long-life battery, and that's pretty much it. What people really want is their desktop, somewhere else. Just cast it over the ether, making the 'tablet' a giant full colour touch-screen remote control for your existing computer. With the 802.11 connection, you could access your home computer from anywhere you can get access like usual. It doesn't need a hard drive, just some nonvolatile RAM.
Sell it for $400 and you're laughing.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Lately I've been going to meetings with a bunch of MS guys. They turn up with laptops; I use PDA+keyboard and paper+pen. I gave up using a laptop about 2 years ago, and haven't regretted it since - a desktop PC plus PDA/kbd gives me equal functionality and removes a load of hassles.
..., then restoring documents; a day AT BEST before they're back on the air again.
In any meeting, I'm set up and ready to go within about 5-10 seconds; grab some space, take PDA+kbd out of my pockets and plug them in. The laptop brigade typically take 2-5 minutes:
- find some space, near a power outlet (coz they know battery life's an issue), plug in
- unsuspend or power on laptop. Quite often, those who've tried to wake up their laptops find they don't wake up properly, so they reboot and grumble about all the data they've just lost from the previous meeting
- wait 30 seconds or so while the PC gets up and going, login, fire up apps & they're ready to go
I've seen meetings delayed while 4 people try to plug in to 3 power outlets, and people rearranging seating to cope with various length power cords. Generally the first people to arrive in a meeting room take the seats nearest the doors; anyone who arrives later has to navigate through a tangle of power cables to get to the remaining seats. To me it's hilarious; to them it's just another meeting where the 1st several minutes are lost while several people go through the dance of the laptops.
Once the meeting's up and going, these guys are typically semi-hidden from view behind their screens, and I can see how a tablet PC would help out in this respect. Facial expressions and body language actually count for a lot when several people are discussing an issue, and a laptop tends to hide these from view. On the other hand, using PDA+kbd is equally good compared to the Tablet in this respect.
Once the meeting's over, I walk back to my desk, sync my PDA with the desktop by pushing a button and my notes are on the PC. The laptop crowd plug into LAN, monitor, power outlet and they're ready to go - again it typically takes them much longer to be productive again. Tablet PC=laptop in this respect (obviously WiFi would help a bit...), but PDA+kbd wins out.
The logistics of lugging a 2kg Tablet PC or laptop around just don't make a lot of sense, when the alternative is to carry notepad/pen and PDA/kbd (maybe 500 grams total). Maybe one day we'll get to the point where Tablet PCs are pre-installed and available everywhere; we'll just pick up the nearest one, it configures itself to our personal requirements and we can use them without lugging them from place to place. That's at least several years away from reality, but if/when it happens we'll look back on carrying our own laptop/Table around with us and double up laughing at the stupidity of the whole idea.
If a meeting is immediately adjacent to lunch, I just put my PDA+kbd in my pocket and head out to get something to eat. The laptop crowd head back to their desks, plug in to everything, then they can head out. Tablet PC would be the same as laptop in this respect, and worse than PDA+kbd. If lunchtime discussion involves the meeting we've just attended, I've got all the info necessary in my PDA at my fingertips; the laptop (+ Tablet) guys don't, unless they're the type of people who eat lunch with their laptop.
My latest PDA has WiFi, can access servers remotely and can read/write Office docs and email; in this respect, I'm now close enough to equal in functionality to a laptop as far as meetings are concerned. Using Sitescooper, I grab a whole lot of info off the Net each morning and load it into the PDA automatically at 5am each morning (i.e. while I'm asleep); it replaces several newspapers and other reading material that I used to buy and/or lug around with me. It's got lots of storage - it holds lots of pictures of my kids, for example - and doesn't have a problem with battery life as long as I recharge every day or so. It's replaced so many things that I used to carry around with me that it's now itself just about irreplaceable.
My last PDA+kbd lasted me 2 years, and never once failed me - batteries never went flat, never lost any data. When it came to replacement time, I had my new one up and going with all data restored within a couple of hours - it would've been quicker if I hadn't taken the time to set up a few extra bits and pieces along the way. How many people do you know that use the same laptop for 2 years, and never have a problem with it? Most laptop users I know replace their laptop every 6-12 months, for one reason or another, and it typically takes 1-2 days of downtime at least to get the new laptop ready for action (i.e. all apps installed, all docs transferred from old laptop). Maybe their IT department does it for them, so it's "invisible" - well, someone's still committing significant time and effort to get it done. I can't see how a Tablet PC would differ from a laptop in this respect, except that they're new and relatively untested so the chance of data loss due to operator error or software/hardware problems is probably going to be higher.
On planes and trains, I can use the PDA just fine. Obviously, the kbd is impractical, but using the handwriting recognition I can e.g. answer emails if/when required. Watching people try to use laptops on planes or trains is just sad; maybe the Tablet PC will win some points here, but it'll again only break even with the PDA at best.
Having worked for a laptop vendor in the past, I know that >50% of laptops sold don't survive till the end of their lease period. Most are sold to corporates, and people using "the company laptop" aren't that careful with the unit when they're out in the field. Lots of them get stolen; anyone carrying a laptop bag is advertising that they're carrying an expensive piece of kit, and they need to watch it pretty closely. A Tablet PC is going to be identical to a laptop in this respect; it'll need some sort of protective bag or case, and it'll be a target for thieves. PDA+kbd sit in my pockets and nobody else knows.
Finally, if I lose my PDA, I'm out a few hundred dollars but at least all my data is automatically saved in 2 other places (i.e. work plus home, via syncing). Head to the shop, plonk down the money for replacement PDA, and I'm back where I was a couple of hours later once I've installed a couple of pieces of software and re-synced with the home PC. If they lose either laptop or Tablet PC, they're out several thousand dollars, and may or may not have a backup somewhere depending on how diligent they've been. If they have a backup, they're typically faced with acquiring a new laptop, reinstalling Office + antivirus + updates from MS +
To sum up, I think I'm fairly and squarely in the target demographic for a Tablet PC, yet it seems like several steps backwards from what I've already got. It costs more, and gives me less - that's the bottom line, coz Stone Cold says so!
Human. smsh Smart machine, stupid human.
Damn can you take some nifty notes.
we can argue about its innovation until we're blue in the face, but I think the proper user group is more closely related to the Mac fan base rather than PC fans. (and yes part of that is the bright+shiny box syndrome, I'll be the first to admit to it) but...
I say this because, yes, coding will be difficult on the tablet, no one wants to do lines of Perl with a pen :), but designing will be easier, illustrating/drawing will be easier, surfing the web will be easier, and sharing those experiences/creations will be easier and more personal. as a digital sketchbook this type of PC is perfect. you can curl up with it in ways that are physically impossible with a laptop.
Combine this puppy with a digital camera and you've got a very functional, and powerful design tool.
I know its not the market (tech), and I know designers don't drive the mainstream, but I think thats why when MS pulls it off it seems half @ss because its not really their market that will buy/use it. but I tell you if Apple develops a similiar product it'll sell. iTell you it will ;)
It seems like 95% of the posts here all trumpet the same theme..."I can input faster with my keyboard." This is true, but I challenge you.. can you input faster with your keyboard while standing up?
That's the point.. The problem with traditional laptops is that they are essentially useless in the hallway or standing in line. The tablet PC's are more like really big PDA's, they are designed for the executive/professional that spends a large part of their day on two feet. They provide keyboards on most models for those "other times," while still affording them the ability to make use of their machine virtually anywhere.
For example, my Father in law is an insurance auditor. Right now they have a laptop that they use to fill out reports after inspecting the sites. They can't write the report during the inspection, after all their laptop is worthless while they run around inspecting things. With a tablet PC they can use their traditional PC applications to fill out their reports without having to scribble notes onto paper and then transfer them to the laptop at a later time... They spend their days on their feet, and this looks like the perfect answer for them.
Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
Slap a G4 sled under one of these, and activate Jaguar Inkwell..
Hell, OS X even has the Newton "delete cloud" when you dispose of Dock occupants!
I'd rather have this.
so we can disable the handwriting recognition software that probably cost a fortune in R&D dollars and run Tux Racer.
Call me crazy, but it looks like our friend marauder404 is one of said M$oft employees. Take a look at his list of comments. Not only are almost all of them supporting The Beast, but they do so in the sort of marketing weaselese that only people working in PR produce.
7 Comments in the Microsoft Hypes XP Tablets story, all pro-M$, including such gems as:
Honestly, I felt the same way -- I didn't think it was the next big thing at all. But after seeing some pictures and doing a lot of reading, I'm convinced that it's worth a second look. It may not be for me, but I'm definitely going to check it out. (1)
and
1. Don't knock it till you've tried it. I'm still somewhat skeptical, but I took some time to research it and hope to use one soon. (2)
Doesn't that prose remind you a bit of the debunked Switch campaign from a few weeks back? And, he's not skeptical at all -- he echoes back the most ludicrous claims of M$:
I also hope that the handwriting recognition is fast enough to keep up with me -- I hear that it scans 133 times per second and makes several guesses at what you're trying to write and anticipates. When it misses (something like 5 out of every 10,000), it'll present some options. (3)
Funny, I hear (from David Pogue at the NYTimes), that the handwriting recognition makes plenty of errors and that "Each mistaken transcription, botched punctuation mark and improperly capitalized word forces you into an excruciating spasm of touch-screen microsurgery." And what kind of BS is "it scans 133 times per second"? I don't even know what that means.
My fave is when he asks for our sympathy for the M$oft execs who were demoing them tablets and had 25% of them fail:
Ever have a system problem while trying to demo something? You downplay it, any way you can. I saw one poor guy struggle for twenty minutes trying to get something to work in front of 1,500 people. (4)
Oh, right, it's natural to think of M$oft execs as the "poor guy", and we should all put ourselves in their shoes.
Other totals:
You're basically saying Microsoft is behaving like every other major company in corporate America and like thousands of other organizations -- trying to buy some influence. No need to single out Microsoft for having done this -- there are many others that are just as guilty or worse. Welcome to American politics. 5
He also tosses in a few non-M$ related comments here and there, but the trend is clear.
So, what to do about this? Well, I thought I should mention it in this comment. And, hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he just really likes M$ and happens to talk like one of their PR people. He has every right to do so. But everyone reading his opinions should consider the distinct possibility that he is getting paid to write here on our beloved /.
-Dan
I have written a truly remarkable operating system which this sig is too small to contain.
Oh, that long? Many people have been working on this for 20+ years. As usual, Microsoft is late to the game.
Microsoft's 5 years of work on this product from the developer division, the office division, the windows division, the emerging technologies division, and the research division represent an investment of billions of dollars. It is organized, and it did take longer than 5 years of all of these divisions working together to pull this off.
Well, we have known all along that Microsoft software development is horribly inefficient: they don't work smart, they work hard. That's why it takes such horrendous efforts to produce a fairly incremental add-on to their OS.
Irony strikes again: in order to develop Linux for the Tablet PC, you are going to have to convince HP or some other TabletPC vendor to sell you one without the MS OS or you'll be paying Microsoft
That's been the case for MS Windows and Windows CE for many years as well. Linux succeeded despite of it. It's not fair, but we can live with it. Tablet PC software or not, the mass production of these tablets finally drives down their price enough.
When will the TabletLinux API be written?
What is needed in terms of APIs already exists.
The fact that the price of the software is hidden by the hardware price eats up your free as in beer argument.
I don't recall making a "free as in beer" argument. I really don't care actually. I just want to use software that doesn't suck, and Microsoft has yet to produce any. Whether you or anybody else uses that software, or whether Gates becomes any richer, really doesn't matter to me.
Just as effective as cyanide tablets, but longer lasting.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
The only logical breakup that comes to mind is separating the display from the keyboard/processor. The reason you can't split those up is because Bluetooth doesn't have nearly the bandwidth to transmit that much information in real time.
adam
I did compare QWERTY vs. Dvorak in another post in the thread I started. About the remark, if it seems like I said that, I didn't mean to. All that I was saying is when comparing scientific calculator users to graphical calculator users, the scientific people can't rely on their calculators as much as graphical people. That means scientific people can do calculations faster in their head and are more confident in their answers.
But yes, in the long run, as long as you get the right answer when before time is up, then the method is moot.
To create another analogy, imagine someone that is learning a second language. Sure that second language may be smaller to write and can pass along the same information (chinese or japanese?) compared to the native language, but your native language seems more natural and takes much less effort than translating into the new format.
But I'm done with this, I'm not trying to convert RPN people to traditional, it just seems like a waste of time to do RPN and the gains people have mentioned are miniscule.
Do what you want, as long as you get the right answer.
(shamelessly taken from Motion Computing's page:r e_ coolstuff.asp )
o ok/info.shtml
e r/1 .html
https://www.motioncomputing.com/products/softwa
FranklinCovey TabletPlanner
(Planning, Scheduling, Notes)
- www.tabletplanner.com
Corel Grafigo
(Create & Collaborate)
- www.corel.com/grafigo
Zinio Reader
(Digital eMagazines & eBooks)
- www.zinio.com
This came from www.sportinit.com
Alias Wavefront Sketchbook
(draw, annotate, present)
- http://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/products/sketchb
Even EDS is getting into things:
http://www.eds.com/products/plm/teamcent
(but the project lead for that said this is a better url:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/021107/sfth058_
)
www.infocater.com and www.pencomputing.com have reviews / product listings / links.
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
I have tried a few different models of these things and let me tell you there are a lot of bugs to be worked out. The interface seems intuitive but you have to re-learn it for every different model that comes out. And none of the models I've seen have really worked out the speech synthesis bugs. Oh yeah, the speech works and all, but you can't turn it off, and it often pipes up at the worst possible time. And the logic feature seems to only work when it wants to. Plus the maintenance costs are far more than you would think. And you've got to keep them decked out with new hardware if you really want to hang on to them.....
OK, so I misread the number. Repeat the steps I mentioned but with a 3 by 3 co-eff matrix, and a 1 by 3 solution vector. Finding the solution for 2 simultanous equations is just as easy as finding the solution for 10 equationsm except for the extra keypresses. If you wish to continue this debate post in the "modding optical mice" cover story.
Also I think you need to reread your statement. Please explain exactly how inverting an identity matrix is going to achieve anything?
Btw, I've reread your earlier posts and have alot more things to disagree with...
1. RPN is somthing nerds use to be different.
No, I use it because it's faster for me, and it's how I'd solve a problem by writing it down.
take (5+2)^2 - simple example. I'd solve that by working out 5 +2, then squaring it. RPN works the same way.
2. Saving 8 seconds on a 5 parallel resistor problem is useless.
Why? The whole problem should only take 15 seconds. Saving 1/2 the time is an excallant thig. And you may be fortinute that your uni gives huge exams, but some of mine are really short on time. And as for your comment "Anyone who can't handle brackets shouldn't be dping math", well I take it you haven't done any really heavy number crunching in exams. When you have 8 or more matched bracked, it's easy to forget the closing brace which screws everything up - particulary if you're in a hurry. RPN -> no braces needed
3. "No student knows the RPN algorethm"
What a load of crap that arguement is. I didn't know that diagram until you pointed it out. All you need to know to use RPN is that 1. Operators take their arguements from the astack and 2. Operators leave their results on the stack. That's it.
4. Grow up, if RPN was important, they'd teach me by now. Well, they didn't so it's not.
They don't teach you about girls either. Not that RPN compares...
5 the 49G has the same resolution TI-82's had and it feels like I'm in the 6th grade.
I agree that the 49G has a crappy screen. But it's math capabilites blow all TI's, including the 89 and 91 away.
I guess it really IS like Mell Brooks says;
No probs. English is pretty much the same all over tha world. dunny would be better tho :)
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
[From the operation manual for the CI-300 Dot Matrix Line Printer, made
in Japan]:
The excellent output machine of MODEL CI-300 as extraordinary DOT MATRIX
LINE PRINTER, built in two MICRO-PROCESSORs as well as EAROM, is featured by
permitting wonderful co-existence such as; "high quality against low cost,"
"diversified functions with compact design," "flexibility in accessibleness
and durability of approx. 2000,000,00 Dot/Head," "being sophisticated in
mechanism but possibly agile operating under noises being extremely
suppressed" etc.
And as a matter of course, the final goal is just simply to help achieve
"super shuttle diplomacy" between cool data, perhaps earned by HOST
COMPUTER, and warm heart of human being.
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...