On my desktop debian system I regularly listen to my streaming mp3s, watch my divx movies, (sometimes using the TV-out feature), play Strike Force on my kick-ass 3d video card at 1280x1024... what is it exactly you think I can't do on debian?
In this case however I was talking about web servers. The fact that my linux box doesn't need to reboot when the win2k box does, has nothing at all to do with the features of win2k vs linux. It is entirely about design, windows has a number of basic design flaws.
In linux, if i want to upgrade my web-browser all I have to do is patch the browser and restart the browser.
In windows i would have to patch the browser, then restart the browser, the web-server app, the dhcp server app, the file server app, the SQL server app, the desktop interface, every service on the system has to be stopped, then the entire god damn system has to be restarted from scratch! all for no reason other than bad design.
10-15 minutes to patch a new install? wow, how'd you manage that? I tried to patch a win2k machine i have at home and it took me at least an hour. Mind you, i'm no MCSE... lol
I had to reboot at least 4 times, and rebooting takes ages and ages on my SCSI dual-P2-450.
The win2k service pack needs to be installed and rebooted, then you download the IE service pack and reboot, then download all the other patches and reboot... and i think some more stuff still had to be downloaded and installed after that...
I much prefer patching my Debian Gnu/Linux NAT box... login, type one cammand, logout. No stupid rebooting involved. Why in god's name should i have to reboot to patch my web browser?
"apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" with only 'security' in my sources.list
dammit! I want a simple phone with 1 or 2 ethernet jacks, maybe with a regular phone jack aswell. This phone would let you dial the IP address of another such phone and then the two phone could talk!
Why does this not exist? why do all IP phones have to be reliant on some kind of expensive complicated single-point-of-failure server???
This would be a great product. Geeks would snap it up, law firms could use it to make encypted calls between offices (i'm thinking vpn here)... It sounds really simple to me too. hmmm... maybe i'll have to build my own...:-(
don't give me crap about latency. business class ADSL gets you 30ms pings to nearby cities, and home DSL is generally under 100... if it's good enough for Quake i'm sure it's good enough for voice.
I've just heard (second hand)that there has been a bomb threat at the world exchange plaza in downtown ottawa. A couple of my co-workers who were downtown this morning are stuck there because the underground parking garage has been sealed off!
Most conspicuously absent is any consideration of the cost of Internet access.
Most people don't have a business with a high speed line they can tap, and why exactly would my local ISP ever allow me to install a line into a box at their site when they are in the business of selling DSL services???
Also, any "residential" Internet service will have a service agreement that prohibits reselling bandwidth so that's out.
So basically you still have to get a "business class" DSL or T1, then if you really want, maybe you can spend another $1000 (2x $300 DSL units, plus a wireless linksys thingy or two) and share it with a few neighbours....hmmm...
So, in conclusion,
$300 to install a T1 with net access
$600 for 2 DSL devices
$150 to install a "dry pair"
$500 for 2 wireless thingies (one at each end)
then each month...
$1000 for the T1 (a raw T1 might be only $500/month, but we want Internet access right?)
$30 for the phone line
so that's about $2000 for the first month and $1030 every month after.... not really the budget system buddy implies...
you missed one possible use for ac3dec... if you're converting DVDs to divx/mp3 or something like that you might in some cases have use for an ac3decoder...
it's not our media inventing the link between Islam and the Taliban. The Taliban claim that their actions are based on their Islamic faith. Hitler never claimed to be on a religous crusade, he was out to secure the world for his "master race".
Besides, most Islamic countries behave in the same anti-women, anti-freedom of religion, anti-information way. It seems to be standard Islamic practice (whether the religion itself teaches this or not) to try and force everyone to be faithfull to Islam.
It's exactly the same bullshit the Christians tried so many years ago. The Christians however (at least most) gave that shit up and apologized.
well, as for why it took them so long to ban the Internet... When you consider the level of poverty in that country plus the level of ignorance in the ruling party, I doubt there was much Internet activity there in the first place.
Actually, we still have a few reactors running at Pickering and Darlington. We used to be over 60% Nuclear in this province, now we're about 40% nuclear.
Also, it seems likely the Bruce reactors will be coming back online in the near future.
Mind you, it'll probably all go to hell because our money-grubbing, "common-sense" (read: simple-minded) Mike Harris Inc. government has ordered Ontario Power generation to reduce it's market share to 30% so Harris cronies can cash in.
Actually, Sympatico is 960/120. Much worse than your claim! If you have an Alcatel or Efficient Networks modem, you probably sync at a marginally higher speed (1020 downstream??).
Actually, they used to be 920/120 but they have (maybe are still in the process) or switching everyone to 1.5/256... They have been switching everyone over to Alcatel modems for that purpose. (note, they shipped the alcatels set to 920/120 and boosted them remotely when they were ready I think) I've seen for myself a newly installed sympatico dsl doing almost 30K per second uploads.
As for online games, you're quite right. One or two players is fine (great in fact) but three players (linux+nat) and you "hit the wall" and your latency goes to hell.
I don't think that it is a matter of packets being dropped on downloads, but rather ACKs for the downstream packets having to contend for upstream bandwidth. It doesn't take much of a delay on those ACKs to start hindering a download. I typically see 3-5K/s upstream when I'm downloading at 100K/s, which is quite high when you have something else using that is trying to use the 15K/s upstream bandwidth. I think that increasing the size of the RWIN does help a little bit.
You're right, Sympatico's tech support is certainly better than R@H. However, they're not without problems. First of all, just don't ever tell the front line tech support that you're running linux, just make something up instead or you'll get hassled.
Second, if you ever have a real network problem it can be a little annoying getting past the tech support yobboes to talk to a network admin. The reason being that the network admins are Bellnexxia or something, not sympatico, and they don't take calls from customers.
really? that's nasty, I put an http and an smtp server on my rogers connection for about a month when i was having trouble with my DSL line, they didn't notice that time.
Now i'm back to my regular setup with http/smtp servers on my fast DSL, and mail is delivered to my rogers@home box via FreeSWAN ipsec.
You're exactly right about the failings of the rogers network here. Their peering sucks, particularly with bellnexxia's networks.
For instance, here in Ottawa Ontario the rogers@home network runs out to NewYork before it peers. Any connections to other local ISPs take the really scenic route. This sucks, because there are really nice fat pipes here in ottawa, but rogers just isn't friendly with bell i guess... (note, i'm not a roger tech, this is just what I tried to figure out by myself)
Same thing with bandwidth.
Rogers also has an annoying system to discourage the use of servers. If there is no traffic from your PC for a period of time, the modem will start blocking incoming connections! So, if you don't have anything running that makes noise regularly (dns or something) and you want to run a server, you have to run a keepalive ping or something so people will be able to get at your server when you're asleep/away.
This is not to say that Sympatico is great or anything... their network rocks, but the crappy 1.5/256 dsl modems they use SUCK! get this, to limit the upstream bandwidth they drop packets in the most annoying way! If you're uploading as hard as you can, and you try to d/l at the same time it drops packets from like half a second!!!! The result is that if you're playing an online game and you max out the upstream bandwidth you start getting 400-1000ms pings!! totally unacceptable. besides, 256Kbit upstream is pathetic. My dead grandmother can read faster than that.
Rogers@Home network designers strike again!
ip route add to bellnexxia_server.ca lookup scenic_route
ya, there's an interesting feature in Sympatico's networks... I'm not sure how intentional it is. You see, you can log on to any of their services with a valid userid/password as many times as you want... so... you can use your dsl userid/pass to log on to their modem dial-up pool, and their dsl service several times simultaneously.
Or, you can get a $20 dial up account and a used dsl modem, and use their dsl service... I suspect that's not what they intended though...
But officer! it said access granted so i figured they were ok with it!
Good point, however if you take a gander at google.com today you'll find thay've added a large categorized listing like yahoo's got. I haven't browsed it yet so I don't know how good it is, but it is google, it'll probably be good!
All these comments blasting those benchmarks for not being fair to Win2k just make my heart swell.
Now I won't feel nearly so bad when everybody complains about the next silly review that puts win2k above linux.
Why did they use Alberta as an example? because they burn lots of coal?
Ottawa is in Ontario, a province that produces about %40 of it's power using nuclear and much of the rest from Hydro electric plants.
I'd say our pullution per 1000km would be much better.
It's likeley they used Alberta because the report probably came from one of those loony right-wing "think-tanks" they have out there.
I particularly liked the pessimistic quote they had from Dr Ian Angell (professor of information systems at the London School of Economics)...
"You have to understand. Future wars will be fought by capitalists and anti-capitalists as society polarises. When that happens, control of information will be as important as control of territory used to be in conventional conflicts."
Wow! $2,199 US.
60gigs shock mounted in nice little unit that slips into your car stereo slot and USB (or others) to your PC.
Nice unit, if you've got that sort of money to throw around...
Slashdot Mirror
sweet! now if only they weren't so damn expensive!
clearly you don't know what you're talking about.
On my desktop debian system I regularly listen to my streaming mp3s, watch my divx movies, (sometimes using the TV-out feature), play Strike Force on my kick-ass 3d video card at 1280x1024... what is it exactly you think I can't do on debian?
In this case however I was talking about web servers. The fact that my linux box doesn't need to reboot when the win2k box does, has nothing at all to do with the features of win2k vs linux. It is entirely about design, windows has a number of basic design flaws.
In linux, if i want to upgrade my web-browser all I have to do is patch the browser and restart the browser.
In windows i would have to patch the browser, then restart the browser, the web-server app, the dhcp server app, the file server app, the SQL server app, the desktop interface, every service on the system has to be stopped, then the entire god damn system has to be restarted from scratch! all for no reason other than bad design.
10-15 minutes to patch a new install? wow, how'd you manage that? I tried to patch a win2k machine i have at home and it took me at least an hour. Mind you, i'm no MCSE... lol
I had to reboot at least 4 times, and rebooting takes ages and ages on my SCSI dual-P2-450.
The win2k service pack needs to be installed and rebooted, then you download the IE service pack and reboot, then download all the other patches and reboot... and i think some more stuff still had to be downloaded and installed after that...
I much prefer patching my Debian Gnu/Linux NAT box... login, type one cammand, logout. No stupid rebooting involved. Why in god's name should i have to reboot to patch my web browser?
"apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" with only 'security' in my sources.list
Why is there no basic IP phone?
:-(
dammit! I want a simple phone with 1 or 2 ethernet jacks, maybe with a regular phone jack aswell. This phone would let you dial the IP address of another such phone and then the two phone could talk!
Why does this not exist? why do all IP phones have to be reliant on some kind of expensive complicated single-point-of-failure server???
This would be a great product. Geeks would snap it up, law firms could use it to make encypted calls between offices (i'm thinking vpn here)... It sounds really simple to me too. hmmm... maybe i'll have to build my own...
don't give me crap about latency. business class ADSL gets you 30ms pings to nearby cities, and home DSL is generally under 100... if it's good enough for Quake i'm sure it's good enough for voice.
I've just heard (second hand)that there has been a bomb threat at the world exchange plaza in downtown ottawa. A couple of my co-workers who were downtown this morning are stuck there because the underground parking garage has been sealed off!
Most conspicuously absent is any consideration of the cost of Internet access.
Most people don't have a business with a high speed line they can tap, and why exactly would my local ISP ever allow me to install a line into a box at their site when they are in the business of selling DSL services???
Also, any "residential" Internet service will have a service agreement that prohibits reselling bandwidth so that's out.
So basically you still have to get a "business class" DSL or T1, then if you really want, maybe you can spend another $1000 (2x $300 DSL units, plus a wireless linksys thingy or two) and share it with a few neighbours....hmmm...
So, in conclusion,
$300 to install a T1 with net access
$600 for 2 DSL devices
$150 to install a "dry pair"
$500 for 2 wireless thingies (one at each end)
then each month...
$1000 for the T1 (a raw T1 might be only $500/month, but we want Internet access right?)
$30 for the phone line
so that's about $2000 for the first month and $1030 every month after.... not really the budget system buddy implies...
you missed one possible use for ac3dec... if you're converting DVDs to divx/mp3 or something like that you might in some cases have use for an ac3decoder...
it's not our media inventing the link between Islam and the Taliban. The Taliban claim that their actions are based on their Islamic faith. Hitler never claimed to be on a religous crusade, he was out to secure the world for his "master race". Besides, most Islamic countries behave in the same anti-women, anti-freedom of religion, anti-information way. It seems to be standard Islamic practice (whether the religion itself teaches this or not) to try and force everyone to be faithfull to Islam. It's exactly the same bullshit the Christians tried so many years ago. The Christians however (at least most) gave that shit up and apologized.
well, as for why it took them so long to ban the Internet... When you consider the level of poverty in that country plus the level of ignorance in the ruling party, I doubt there was much Internet activity there in the first place.
hehe, nice.
although, as you just showed us with your wit, not all americans are brain-dead.
Actually, we still have a few reactors running at Pickering and Darlington. We used to be over 60% Nuclear in this province, now we're about 40% nuclear.
Also, it seems likely the Bruce reactors will be coming back online in the near future.
Mind you, it'll probably all go to hell because our money-grubbing, "common-sense" (read: simple-minded) Mike Harris Inc. government has ordered Ontario Power generation to reduce it's market share to 30% so Harris cronies can cash in.
Off-topic? ya I guess so.
How can someone who says "Deja vu all over again!" get modded up?
Anyone who says that phrase must be an american or mentally retarded.
for some reason i find this one way more annoying than people who abbreviate "you are" to "your".
Actually, Sympatico is 960/120. Much worse than your claim! If you have an Alcatel or Efficient Networks modem, you probably sync at a marginally higher speed (1020 downstream??).
Actually, they used to be 920/120 but they have (maybe are still in the process) or switching everyone to 1.5/256... They have been switching everyone over to Alcatel modems for that purpose. (note, they shipped the alcatels set to 920/120 and boosted them remotely when they were ready I think) I've seen for myself a newly installed sympatico dsl doing almost 30K per second uploads.
As for online games, you're quite right. One or two players is fine (great in fact) but three players (linux+nat) and you "hit the wall" and your latency goes to hell.
I don't think that it is a matter of packets being dropped on downloads, but rather ACKs for the downstream packets having to contend for upstream bandwidth. It doesn't take much of a delay on those ACKs to start hindering a download. I typically see 3-5K/s upstream when I'm downloading at 100K/s, which is quite high when you have something else using that is trying to use the 15K/s upstream bandwidth. I think that increasing the size of the RWIN does help a little bit.
Makes sense. Somebody mod this guy Informative.
You're right, Sympatico's tech support is certainly better than R@H. However, they're not without problems. First of all, just don't ever tell the front line tech support that you're running linux, just make something up instead or you'll get hassled.
Second, if you ever have a real network problem it can be a little annoying getting past the tech support yobboes to talk to a network admin. The reason being that the network admins are Bellnexxia or something, not sympatico, and they don't take calls from customers.
really? that's nasty, I put an http and an smtp server on my rogers connection for about a month when i was having trouble with my DSL line, they didn't notice that time.
Now i'm back to my regular setup with http/smtp servers on my fast DSL, and mail is delivered to my rogers@home box via FreeSWAN ipsec.
You're exactly right about the failings of the rogers network here. Their peering sucks, particularly with bellnexxia's networks.
For instance, here in Ottawa Ontario the rogers@home network runs out to NewYork before it peers. Any connections to other local ISPs take the really scenic route. This sucks, because there are really nice fat pipes here in ottawa, but rogers just isn't friendly with bell i guess... (note, i'm not a roger tech, this is just what I tried to figure out by myself)
Same thing with bandwidth.
Rogers also has an annoying system to discourage the use of servers. If there is no traffic from your PC for a period of time, the modem will start blocking incoming connections! So, if you don't have anything running that makes noise regularly (dns or something) and you want to run a server, you have to run a keepalive ping or something so people will be able to get at your server when you're asleep/away.
This is not to say that Sympatico is great or anything... their network rocks, but the crappy 1.5/256 dsl modems they use SUCK! get this, to limit the upstream bandwidth they drop packets in the most annoying way! If you're uploading as hard as you can, and you try to d/l at the same time it drops packets from like half a second!!!! The result is that if you're playing an online game and you max out the upstream bandwidth you start getting 400-1000ms pings!! totally unacceptable. besides, 256Kbit upstream is pathetic. My dead grandmother can read faster than that.
Rogers@Home network designers strike again!
ip route add to bellnexxia_server.ca lookup scenic_route
ya, there's an interesting feature in Sympatico's networks... I'm not sure how intentional it is. You see, you can log on to any of their services with a valid userid/password as many times as you want... so... you can use your dsl userid/pass to log on to their modem dial-up pool, and their dsl service several times simultaneously.
Or, you can get a $20 dial up account and a used dsl modem, and use their dsl service... I suspect that's not what they intended though...
But officer! it said access granted so i figured they were ok with it!
Good point, however if you take a gander at google.com today you'll find thay've added a large categorized listing like yahoo's got. I haven't browsed it yet so I don't know how good it is, but it is google, it'll probably be good!
All these comments blasting those benchmarks for not being fair to Win2k just make my heart swell.
Now I won't feel nearly so bad when everybody complains about the next silly review that puts win2k above linux.
1337 = leet as in elite
h@>0r = hacker
0w3n1ng = owning, as in taking control of someone's system
what a silly study.
Why did they use Alberta as an example? because they burn lots of coal?
Ottawa is in Ontario, a province that produces about %40 of it's power using nuclear and much of the rest from Hydro electric plants.
I'd say our pullution per 1000km would be much better.
It's likeley they used Alberta because the report probably came from one of those loony right-wing "think-tanks" they have out there.
I particularly liked the pessimistic quote they had from Dr Ian Angell (professor of information systems at the London School of Economics) ...
"You have to understand. Future wars will be fought by capitalists and anti-capitalists as society polarises. When that happens, control of information will be as important as control of territory used to be in conventional conflicts."
grim predictions coming from across the pond...
Wow! $2,199 US. 60gigs shock mounted in nice little unit that slips into your car stereo slot and USB (or others) to your PC. Nice unit, if you've got that sort of money to throw around...
$40 for a CD? where are you shopping? north of hudson bay?