Tips for Teaching Seniors About the Internet?

ColGraff asks: "I'm spending this summer teaching senior citizens how to use the Internet - specifically, email and the world wide web, so how do I teach them in a way that will meet their needs in the best way possible? Some of these people have no computer experience and I don't know if should I plunge right into web browsers (while filling in knowledge gaps as needed) or give background info first? How do you teach someone to use a mouse effectively? (Sure, it seems simple, but think about it a minute. How do you know how far to move a mouse? How fast to double-click?). What about tips on using search engines, and how to sort the wheat from the chaff? Finally, what else should I teach? Is there anything in particular I should know about when tutoring the elderly?"

Comments

show them GNU/Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

I would suggest future-proofing them by showing them GNU/Linux and the ins and outs of bash, vi, mutt, tin, and lynx. That should cover most of their internet needs. Most old people find windows too complicated and can not use a mouse effectively (or at all!). After a couple of lessons when they figure that out, teach them scripting with perl.

lesson 1: it won't explode

[Anonymous Coward]

People who are in their 60s and 70s today grew up with the first generation of widespread sci-fi film and literature; when they were young adults, computers were massive things like UNIVAC that required a team of dedicated specialists to run.

When I taught my grandparents how to use a computer (mainly for word processing; this was 5-6 years ago, when the internet wasn't so omnipresent that they felt they needed to use it) their main worry was that they would break it, either physically by pressing something too hard or by doing something wrong that would ruin the software. They had an image of a computer as an extremely delicate thing. The analogy that worked for them was a car: they didn't know how that worked inside either, and yes, it was possible to do real damage to it, but not particularly easy. You should have seen their faces the first time they got the "bomb" error (this was an old Mac) -- and when I "fixed" it by turning it off and turning it back on! Once they had seen that, they were a lot more comfortable. jf

A true, yet disgusting story

[Anonymous Coward]

My grandpa got a new computer and wanted to see the internet. So, being a nerd, I helped him. I showed him Yahoo and all the stuff you could find. But no matter what I showed him, he ended up wanting to see gay porn sites! "I heard you could see gay porn. Is that true? I just want to see it to see if its true. Click on that, bigbadboycocksuckers.com, please?". I never knew old people could be so perverted! ewww plus him being my grandpa made it even worse

Seriously this is how to teach them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Start with background. Then cover the basics. Include (this is very serious) powering up the computer and brief them on screensavers/power management. The easiest way to teach people how to use a mouse is to have them play windows solitaire. Help them to create e-mail accounts with simple sites such as hotmail. Then if your going deeper, teach outlook. Don't forget that these are the people who think that dvd players are cupholders. They are completely inexpeirienced, and will require a thouroughness that would dull most people.

Re:Consistency

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, good advice. Geezers are people too.

I happen to be one, and happen also to have just finished 8 years of teaching computer use to adult "newbies," many of them "Seniors." The thing I found most surprising was how much manual skill is involved. I started using a mouse when there really wasn't much to do with one, and added skills from there. It's not so easy now.

Takes patience. Especially with men. There's a lot of variation, of course, but a lot of older men have spent a lifetime working with tools that require gross movements - wrenches, hammers. Not always easy for them to do "fine" work. I tell them to try to remember the first time they drove a stick-shift car or rode a bike. Seemed clumsy at first, but now they can do it without even thinking.

And Windows, by the way (assuming that's what we're talking about here), is not so consistent as it might be. Double-click on an icon but single-click on a button. Click twice (not double) to rename a file or folder. Triple-click, even, in Word. Etc., etc.

A couple of specific tips, in response to the original post here. I introduce the idea of double-clicking on the test pad in the Mouse control panel. Nice payoff, when the jack-in-the-box jumps out. And mouse movements in Windows Paint - drawing lines and rectangles require the same technique as selecting text in a word processor, for example. Solitaire is good mouse practice too, of course, but not everybody knows how to play. Everybody likes to draw. And, it produces a file we can do other things with later (drag to the recycle bin, etc.).

Takes patience. Neat when it works, though. I had a woman in class a few years ago who was so afraid of computers I had to encourage her just to turn it on. Five weeks later she was sending out Christmas cards by email.

T

Based on my teaching experience, I would suggest .

[Anonymous Coward]

I have done this exact same thing before. So ... my suggestions are:

1) at the beginning of class, find out what the level of experience is, what they hope to get from the class, what they are interested in. You could do this several ways:

a) orally - you might want to do this with interests like "what do you want to learn on the internet", but not skill related things like "who has never used a computer before". finding interests orally should stimulate some discussion, but no one wants to admit they are a novice in public

b) written: either hand written or using notepad or wordpad.

2) If you need to brush up on computer skills, forget the jargon, go slow, start with the basics. This is a mouse .... blah, blah blah. Play solitaire. It helps develop mouse skills. Go into the options ... you can show radio buttons, check boxes, etc there. Use the pulldown menus to start a new game. After this, get people to use word pad to write you a note. Let them write you a note telling you what skill level the have , what they want to learn, how many grandkids they have, etc. Another good one is paint. Have them draw a self portrait. No one does it well so they all get a laugh out of what they did.

3) Introduce the Internet. You can explain what a server is and that you use a browser to access it. Forget lots of technology talk ... it is not needed and likely not desired.

4) Point them to search engines. Explain how they work and some major differences. For example: Yahoo is like a hand coded yellow pages, organized by topic. Google is like the index the back of a book.

5) Help them learn how to search. For example: If you want an airline ticket ... searching for airline tickets may not the the best way to do it. You may want to go directly to an airline's site and see if they have tickets. Teach them some technique.

6) Do some research, show them sites that match the interests and wants you found out earlier when you asked them.

Remember to keep things at a reasonable pace. These people do not rush. They also do not get impatient with each other if one or two are slow. They have learned patience and tolerance. They are intelligent, and have learned much in life. Being in a class like this shows they are active and ready to learn more. Treat them with respect and decency.

You will have fun. I always enjoy teaching classes to seniors. It is a breath of fresh air.

Please check out Generations on Line

[Tony Shepps]

If you're part of a senior center, library, or nursing home, a non-profit organization called Generations on Line has just finished its pilot and officially launched a few months ago.

These folks have done a lot of the handiwork in simplifying the net for elders. They've put together materials and a "starter" site that has been specifically oriented to be the "training wheels" for the elderly. The site is fully tested with actual elders and includes large type everywhere, scaled for different monitor sizes; a web-based email with all of the confusing elements yanked out; a search engine interface with all of the confusing elements yanked out; and a simple message area where elders talk about things with schoolchildren.

It's in place or pending at several hundred sites and is expanding. It was just written about in Thursday's Philadelphia Inquirer.

They grew up in different world...

[deno]

There are some things to keep in mind when working with elderly people:

• when they were young, PCs did not exist. Therefore, they still tend to have somewhat strange ideas about computers. Most elderly people have fear of PCs - try to explain them that there is nothing to fear of.
• These folks are used of learning from books. Give them something written on paper, like step-by-step instructions of how to perform some task. Homework would be good too.
• When these folks were young, information was scarce and difficult to find. Today, information is aboundant, and most difficult part is to screen yourself from too much information, and to "fish" the right piece of info from a sea of unneeded stuff. Always keep in mind one thing: For you and me slashdot and search engines are great. For them, slashdot might be a little more than white noise, and search machines appear completely contraintuitive.
• Keep in mind that their reflexes and vision aren't what they used to be. Do not jump from one theme to another, don't try doing too much. S L O W down! Use big letters, so that everyone can read and definitively show them a trick with "CTRL-ALT-+" - they'll learn to appreciate this primitive zoom function very fast (yes, you have to write that down on a paper)...

Only One Thing Worth Knowing

[nathanh]

Is there anything in particular I should know about when tutoring the elderly?"

There's only one thing worth remembering. The elderly aren't dumb. In many cases the elderly are incredibly intelligent: the stupid ones will have wiped themselves out somehow before making it to retirement.

The elderly simply won't be familiar with the technology. It probably took you several months before a mouse became "obvious". So keep in mind that you're teaching INTELLIGENT people who are UNFAMILIAR with the technology.

There's an organisation with the express aim of teaching the elderly. It's the University of the Third Age (U3A). There are resources on the Internet and there will almost certainly be U3A groups within your local area.

Hold their hand, literally

[cthompso]

I taught a retired woman how to use the mouse by putting my hand over hers on the mouse, and moving it around, and clicking on things. After about 30 seconds, she had it down. So try that, as weird as it sounds (it's like the way they teach people how to swing a golf club). The obvious other thing is make Google their home page, if it's their computer. Google is just awesome, as we all know. If they're being ornery, though, tell 'em to use Microsoft-based "AskJeeeves" with its oh-so-wonderful results, and that's punishment enough ;)

Re:Hold their hand, literally

[Lorenzo Smythe]

May I recommend also having a trackball handy for teaching as well, and learn your windows keyboard mappings and make a chart to give them to do their navigation from the keyboard (difficult but possible in most cases). Arthritis isn't the only senior-predominant medical condition that can do funky things to fingers, hands, wrists and forearms, and you'll likely find that some of your senior clients can use one or two of the three, but not the other(s). My mother-in-law has arthritis and carpal tunnel, and works in a newspaper office. They regular mouse was impractical and sometimes painful to use. They tried her out on a couple of other tools and settled on one of the larger Logitech trackballs.
She was back up to speed in no time.

Longshot

Re:Hold their hand, literally

[Tungz10]

30 seconds? I guess she wasn't one of the bright ones.

Consistency

[Uruk]

Well, I think the elderly will learn computers just like everybody else does. By screwing around on them and doing random stuff.

The main thing about the elderly and others who haven't learned computing yet is that they fear the complexity of the machines. If you show them that the user interface is designed to be consistent and helpful and not contrary and impossible, if you show them just a few cool things and what you did to get there, and if you convince them that they can learn it and that it's relatively simple once you've got some practice, then there's no problem.

Essentially there's no difference between the elderly as a specific group learning computers than any other group. Teach them not to fear the computer, show them a few cool things, and then let them loose. That's how I learned computers, I'm betting that's how you learned computers, and that's probably the best way they can learn them too.

It's the attitude that's important. If you try to learn going into the experience thinking that the machine is going to do everything it can to thwart you and that really it's a very difficult task, you'll fail. If you approach it with confidence, then it will be easy. Giving the confidence to approach the machine is your job more than actually teaching the mechanics is. If they have the confidence, the mechanics will teach themselves to the user.

Re:Consistency

[angst_ridden_hipster]

Consistency! Ah, therein lies the rub!

My 88 year-old Grandmother wanted a computer "and the internet" for her 85th birthday. I foolishly went with an eMachine that seemed to be everything she wanted. Bad choice. Hardware problems have plagued us, and Win98 runs even worse on that machine than others.

My Grandmother is a very intelligent woman. She was a medical doctor long before it was common to have women doctors. She understands using processes, doing lab work, scientific method, following recipes, etc. But she still has some difficulties. She's still quite sharp, has a reasonably good memory, and decent motor control.

In any case, the big discovery about "intuitive user interfaces" is that they aren't. Why do you double-click on an icon on the desktop, single-click on a browser link, click and drag on a menu, and single-click on a toolbar? The inconsistencies are aggravating. Even if you try to break it down, you get completely tangled up: "when there's a little picture (icon), you double-click, except when it's in a toolbar. A toolbar is when all those little icons are at the top of a window. Well, yes, you can arrange all your desktop icons to be at the top of the window, but it's still not a toolbar." Etc.

My overall findings are that:

1. Coordination is a problem. Mouse control, click speed, etc, are difficult. You can compensate somewhat for this by changing mouse sensitivity and double-click rate.

2. Resolution matters. After trying many combinations, I eventually got her set up on a 17" viewable monitor running at 640x480 resolution. Bletch, you say? But it makes those icons "bigger" and easier to hit. It actually helps a lot.

3. Extensive written out procedures for dealing with common problems help, but don't solve the problem. When an unexpected error message pops up while following a procedure, the rest of it goes out the window.

4. Playing around is helpful but can cause problems. Learning by trying things is great, but you do need someone who can undo the mess. One time, she accidently pulled the tool-bars out of MS Word. She went through the menus to try to bring them back, but was looking for "buttons" rather than toolbar, so she couldn't get them back. This led to randomly trying options in the Word prefs. It took me an hour to straighten everything back out.

Still, it's remarkable to me how much of this stuff my grandmother gets. I hope that when I'm in my 80s, I'll still be able to figure out how to use the Home Defrobnicator to instavid the grandkids...
bukra fil mish mish
-
Monitor the Web, or Track your site!

Re:Consistency

[elb]

Essentially there's no difference between the elderly as a specific group learning computers than any other group. Teach them not to fear the computer, show them a few cool things, and then let them loose. That's how I learned computers, I'm betting that's how you learned computers, and that's probably the best way they can learn them too.

actually, this is dead wrong. I'm a usability engineer. people who did not grow up using interactive (electronic) technologies have radically different techniques for learning technology than do people who grew up with things like calculators, video games, and computers. this disconnect is most obvious in people who are approximately over 40 versus those who are younger than 40.

those who have grown up with digital technologies have a very exploratory method of learning. they punch buttons until they get what they want. people who are older than this -- realize, please, that i am NOT talking about the 50 year old sysadmins or whoever else reads slashdot -- do NOT use this exploration method. they tend to search for step-by-step instructions and tend not to look for hidden functionality (menus). in other words, they tend to approach "learning technology" problems in the way that one would attempt to learn how to use a mechanical object. unfortunately for the elderly, most interfaces today are designed with the implicit assumption that newbies to the interface will try to learn by exploring.

there are other issues in human cognition/physiology that affect how the elderly learn computers as well. for example, the amount of light that the elderly eye can perceive is about half that of a 25 year old. this means it's much harder to read text, look at pictures, and find what you're looking for. motor skills decrease -- it's harder to target icons.

Re:Consistency

[diverman]

I think senior citizens do learn similarly to younger people, however not quite the same. I child can be thrown into a situation, and can safely be expected to pick up on some of the details that were skipped. It is not necessarily a diminished mental capacity, but rather a point of motivation. Kids have more energy to put into going off on tangents, and actually enjoy doing so. Senior citizens are less likely to explore and spend that extra energy.

I do agree that things should be kept simple. This does not mean to treat them like they're retarded. Perhaps a combination of showing final purpose, and preparation of basic knowledge. Point out the goal, and try to get a sense of real communication. Don't just babble off information, and expect it to just be absorbed. Be more interactive to make sure they all understand the goal... use metaphores... ask them to tell you what they are thinking, and either reassure their correctness or guide them down a better way of thinking. You can use your students to teach others, by pulling out their perspective and moulding it into a helpful view for everyone. It's likely other students will share views with those that you can get to share, and showing a progression of thought from a common point helps everyone.

After establishing a well communicated goal, step back to the beginning, and show them how to get there. It might be good to reassure them a bit, and try to keep it clear how the current step gets them to their goal. It's a lot easier to travel a path when you have some clue about where you're headed.

And finally, keep a good sense of their progress. If everyone is picking things up, move on... don't beat a dead horse. If the students are having difficulty with a specific topic, look at the problem. Is it that their is a missing step needed to understand that topic, or is it just that there is a mis-perception? Either way, always remember to work with your students so you know how they're doing.

I've never taught kids, but I have taught in professional training courses. My students have had a range of backgrounds, from never having used anything but windows to having been a regular UNIX user, and I have always been able to get everyone to understand what I was teaching (Oracle DBA, UNIX arhitecture, and SAP architecture classes). The key is to keep it interactive.

Good luck in teaching those seniors!

Cheers,
-Alex

Re:Consistency

[theonetruekeebler]

Slashdot is not short of self-proclaimed experts spouting their ill-informed opinions as it is.

I'm afraid that's exactly what Slashdot is. It's frustrating digging through the junk to get to the information. And the Funny flag has been an excuse to do one's karma whoring by being a smartass rather than an intelligent contributor to discussion.

--

Re:Consistency

[kinko]

Essentially there's no difference between the elderly as a specific group learning computers than any other group. Teach them not to fear the computer, show them a few cool things, and then let them loose. That's how I learned computers, I'm betting that's how you learned computers, and that's probably the best way they can learn them too.

If you have a choice, choose an operating system that has some concept of "normal" and "admin" users. I suppose if you are just demonstrating web and email tools, then any free unix-like operating system would be fine (or even windows NT or 2000 if you've got them available). If you have this set up, you can tell them that no matter what they do, they are not going to "hurt" the computer - the worst they can do is screw up their own settings. I remember as a young thing discovering what happened when you clicked on the "format" icon in the GEM GUI (an early competitor to Windows) and answered the questions without understanding them. Now that I think of it, I think it's terrible that someone designed an OS where an 8 year old boy can successfully format the disk containing the code for the OS (and GUI)...

Re:Consistency

[Ghazgkull]

"The main thing about the elderly and others who haven't learned computing yet is that they fear the complexity of the machines." Prejudice is bad, mmkay?

Re:Consistency

[BerkeleyBull]

It may not just be memory-related. When we got a Performa 6300 back in 94, my 10 year old learned much faster than I. I'm not dumb, so I tried to see what the difference was. He wasn't afraid of breaking it! People who have grown up with physical tools have been told to be careful! or you'll break it! or put your eye out! We have a mental set that says to go slow and careful with tools. Have him do the install of the solitaire game for instance. Have him look up information on his obscure hobbies at groups.google.com. Better yet , have him use all the menu items on the dropdown menus in different applications. Open up too many pictures in Photoshop. Let him see that he can crash it and it won't break... Oh yeah, then show him how to fix it....:) Get him excited and let him get in trouble and then show him how to get out of it..

Re:Consistency

[malfunct]

The people that I had to teach computer skills to, my parents included, hated doing these things because they felt they were a "waste of time". They wait until they have a critical job to do and then they want instant results. Its nice if you have a group of people that is willing to just take the time to learn a few skills, it pays off in the end if they only realize it.

Re:Consistency

[characterZer0]

Well, I think the elderly will learn computers just like everybody else does. By screwing around on them and doing random stuff.

I do not think this is the case. I have been teaching my grandfather, whose last computer ran DOS 6, to use his brand new HP, complete with scanner, printer, and CDR-RW drive. He picked up the mouse and GUI very quickly, but he will not learn anything by poking around. Why is this? He won't remember what he did. Unfortunately, as people get older, the memory starts to go. I had to teach him the same thing over and over, and he'd still say, "I don't remember doing this last time." What worked very well (my grandmother's idea) was having an index card for each task. One to connect to the ISP, one to scan, one to check email, one to instant message someone. He may not remember what he's supposed to do, but he can follow the instructions on the card, and learn the tasks at whatever rate he happens to learn them.

Re:Consistency

[WPL510]

There is one difference between the elderly and younger people (with regards to learning to use the internet): coordination. One problem I've had teaching older people to use a computer involves use of a mouse. Since it's harder for the elderly to control their hand-movements - a simple right click ends up dragging the icon because the mouse doesn't stay still and a double click, well... you might want to cut back on the sensitivity of the mouse as much as possible. They're very capable of learning once they get past their fear of computers (didn't anyone ever hear the story of how warren buffett decided to get a computer because he could play bridge online?), but tiny hyperlinks make using the internet more target practice than anything.

Re:Consistency

[Molf]

Essentially there's no difference between the elderly as a specific group learning computers than any other group. Teach them not to fear the computer, show them a few cool things, and then let them loose. That's how I learned computers, I'm betting that's how you learned computers, and that's probably the best way they can learn them too.
This isn't strictly true. As a person ages (gains experience) the brain forms an ever increasing number of dendritic connections. For a young brain this is easy, but aging causes less and less connections to be made, as there is already a staggering number formed by past experiences. It literally does become harder for the brain to learn something new.
This needn't be a problem, if the person in question is willing to put in the time and really *wants* to learn, however &lt sweeping statement &gt most people, particularly the elderly it seems to me, really can't be bothered; they want to be able to send and receive e-mail, and type the occasional letter - and scan large images without compression so they can send unsuspecting relatives 30meg bitmaps that they didn't want and then complain about how slow it all is (maybe that's just my grandmother) &lt/sweeping statement &gt
Molf

Re:Consistency

[Chyron]

First really helpful advice on this topic. Kudos to whomever is behind the AC mask. And the self-absorbed sheep with their "tips" should perhaps look at this, and consider that their generic platitudes are only fooling the moderators.

In short, mod this up. And please, PLEASE, if you have less than this to contribute to a topic, consider staying quiet. Slashdot is not short of self-proclaimed experts spouting their ill-informed opinions as it is.
--

Re:Consistency

[cowtamer]

For consistency, try:

Linux, a 24x80 screen, and the command line :)

now if only Gopher were still alive...

Re:Consistency

[slashdot_commentator]

"The main thing about the elderly and others who haven't learned computing yet is that
they fear the complexity of the machines. If you show them that the user interface is
designed to be consistent and helpful and not contrary and impossible, ..."

But how can you do that if you're training them on Windoze machines?

Re:The mouse thing can be tricky.

[general_re]

Syntax tip: being impregnated by the mailman does not make the mailman your father. If you are a man and so is the mailman, it could make you both criminals in some states, though. As well as get you into lots of medical journals.

Solitaire.. seriously!

[Cycon]

How do you teach someone to use a mouse effectively? (Sure, it seems simple, but think about it a minute. How do you know how far to move a mouse? How fast to double-click?)

Showing someone how to play solitaire on a computer is a great way to help them learn basic mousing skills, while becoming comfortable with the idea of sitting in front of a computer. Pretty much everyone knows the rules behind the game, and it's easier to make the mental leap from playing cards to the graphics on the screen than understanding concepts such as "desktop" and "file", which are abstracted much further.

Whenever I starting teaching someone who is new to computers, I try to make as many comparisons to real life as possible.

For instance, when I explain about the different between RAM and a hard drive, I tell them to thing of the computer as an office desk. The "hard drive" is the file cabinet where everything is kept. The "RAM" is the top of the desk. They can work on as many files at the same time as they can spread out on the top of the desk. Once they run out of desktop space, they need to close up one file, stick it back in the drawer, file the next one, and lay it out again. I tell them that in computer terms this is "swapping", and that's what the computer is doing when it starts getting very slow and you can hear the hard drive making noises...

--Cycon

Re:Solitaire.. seriously!

[blackwizard]

Agreed -- it's good to use a lot of analogies. I like to use post office analogies when I teach older folks about e-mail. It takes some creativity to think of analogies about the web -- it's been so long since I've done this that I don't remember what I did -- but most old folks that I've tutored can get the hang of it pretty quickly as long as you don't try to get into all the messy technical detail of it all. That being said, I think one of the most challenging things to explain is error messages. Sometimes to explain those you have to get into some level of technical detail; my best advice is to try to simplify it as much as possible -- you don't want your internet-learning session to turn into a "trying to explain to non-technical people how DNS works" session.

Re:Solitaire.. seriously!

[Pentapod]

Those are very good analogies. Solitaire in particular is an extremely good mouse-training program for the elderly, as they are already familiar with the game.

My grandmother bought her first computer when she was 89. She's an intelligent, alert woman for her age, but you have to accept that a person's mind becomes set in its ways by that age. It's been very difficult for her to learn simple tasks. Not because she's not intelligent or even not capable of learning, but because it's a medium that's so completely unrelated to anything she learned as a child. There is no point of reference for her at all, which makes every little thing a thing to be individually memorized, not something you could deduce from something else. Here are some things I've learned from trying to help her with the "evil machine":

1. Remember they have absolutely no point of reference. Therefore, when teaching the elderly, try to give them generalized rules instead of specific ones, to help them see how things relate. (For example - left-clicking is for doing things, right-clicking is generally for getting more information.) This helps them see the computer as a consistent environment instead of thousands of individual commands to memorize.
2. Don't even bother trying to explain anything technical UNLESS THEY SPECIFICALLY ASK. Explain the internet in terms of the public library system, explain the desktop in terms of an office desk, explain everything in metaphors that they are familiar with. Any technical terms will be forgotten within a day (if not instantly) and technical background/history will just confuse them. Unless you have a rare techie senior who actually asks, don't even tell them about it. Most of them are scared of technical things because it makes them face how obsolete their own knowledge is. If using the computer reminds them of their own obsolescence and inability to learn, they will dislike the computer and not use it.
3. Never show a senior how to do something. Always talk them through doing it themselves. It is impossible for a senior to follow you doing something on the computer. Just accept this. Talk them through doing it and write down absolutely every step of it for them.
4. Write down instructions for everything they want to do. Make them detailed, simple to understand instructions, preferably with pictures. That way they can follow the instructions while you're away and become familiar with the common tasks.
5. Speak loudly and enunciate clearly. Be prepared to repeat the same instructions every time you see them, and don't complain about having to repeat yourself, which will only make them feel stupid. Don't try and force them to learn something they aren't interested in - vary the program depending on who you're teaching and what their interests are. Some may not want to use the web. Some may not want to use a word processor. Show them the things they are interested in doing, so they get immediate reward and encouragement.

And most important, have LOTS AND LOTS of patience!

Agreed . . .

[SimplyCosmic]

. . . but it's also pretty much the reason MOST people, regardless of age fear them.

My mother was always afraid she was going to break the computer I set up for her and dad, and therefore tended to use it rarely. After I lied and told her that I had everything backed up and could instantly retore it no matter what she did, and that she couldn't physically break it by pressing any of the buttons, she relaxed and now spends as much time with it as everyone else.

Now if I could only get her to stop forwarding me dumb jokes through email . . .

Experimentation

[Monica]

In my experience working with my own grandparents and middle-agers, my main problem was getting them to not be scared of experimentation. With computers, the main way I (and probably most of you) have learned is by trying something and messing something up and fixing it. Like if there's some option in Word that i want to use but i can't find it, i go through the menus seeing what things do. It's important to tell them that no matter what they do, they probably can't unintentionally mess anything up permanently. Mostly the people who can't figure computers out are just unwilling to see what everything does and not be scared of messing up the machine.

Re:ElderVision.Net was tackling this...

[HamNRye]

Wasn't Jeff Pepper the son of Sgt. Pepper??

Just turn on your machine
The Windows install is clean
We won't even drive a mile
And you can surf in style

So let me introduce to you
The one and only man with a vision
It's Jeff Peppers Elderly Heart's Club Band...

misread it...

[austad]

Is there anything in particular I should know about when tutoring the elderly?

I thought it said "torturing the elderly". I need help.

Been there, done that...some thoughts

[Vrallis]

A few years ago, I was paid to run my high school's new internet lab for the summer. This included teaching groups of teachers, as well as summer school classes, how to use a basic web browser. Many of the teachers I taught (talking about turning the tables!) were elderly--most districts are in desperate need of teachers, so many came out of retirement around then.

Believe it or not, the main problems I dealt with were physical rather than mental. Maybe not so unbelievable, I suppose--these ARE teachers, after all. Many of the teachers were sufferers from usually severe arthritis. Hence, they had great difficulty in mouse control.

Be prepared to deal with the possibility of needing to have some large trackballs for some of the people to use--I found they were much easier for some of the more senior students to operate.

I envy you, though. The people you will be teaching sound like they will be there only because they WANT to learn. Try teaching 30 failures (90% of the summer school population I taught) who may be in high-school, but have rejected even learning that 2+2=4, and blocked education from their lives completely. Or have decided they only want to surf for porn. Or teachers that REFUSE to come into the 20th century gracefully.

Have fun!

Mousing can be tough for seniors...

[cowboy junkie]

I've taught web basics to seniors before, and I think the most difficult aspect is the mouse. Not because they 'don't get it' but because with arthritis and other similar conditions, it's very difficult to use with any kind of precision. The same goes for the keyboard - it's very difficult to type a long URL when your hand is shaking.

The way to talk to them is...

[pxpt]

...to speak very LOUDLY and s.l.o.w.l.y and try and be as patronising as you can ;-)

Elitism prevents good growth in our "fine" clubs.

[ElvenKnight]

I just got done reading quite a bit of the comments here. Most comments delt with how to approach our elders, in the fact that they are NOT stupid, they are quite intelligent, and if you feed them the information in the right way, they will learn rather then continue to live in fear of the technology.

..Yet how quickly those same posters who apply such wisdom to the elderly, will quickly call today's middleaged or young ones stupid for failing to grasp a principal we might know.
...yet we were all newbies once, no?

I see countless posters, especially in recent articles, mentioning how they wish they learned programming way back when they were younger or how if only this or only that. Granted, learning how to use the mouse is a far cry from learning how to "manipulate the data" in memory thru arcane syntax. Then there's branching logic and multi-threading and me oh my.. But its only a matter of seeing all that arcane knowledge in the right light, is it not? How much better the open source community would do if they nurtured wannabe programmers rather then condem them back to the side-lines to continue dreaming.

There are those self motivated enough to pick up a damn book and read and read and read, and learn, and implement and become self-made programmers. There are others who were fortunate enough to afford college and have the knowledge feed to them until they got it or dropped out.

But what about those who only needed the proper guidance? The proper hand holding? Or perhaps just a lift over one particular mental-wall that prevented them from seeing the whole overall picture?

The entry-bar for programming has lowered greatly thanks to Java, Python and OO concepts in general. Some feel there will be a day where the entry-bar is lowered enough to where you can tell a computer what to do in detail purely thru english.. I feel all that is present today, no matter how arcane/complicated it is to learn how to program today.. all you need is a good teacher and/or a good written lesson plan, no?

So let me pose the following questions...

1. How many power users today who have a good grasp on utilizing their computers wish they were programmers and would probably give it a best effort try if they thought the path they were taking would lead to enlightenment on being that programmer?

2. Joe PowerUser, who knows enough to build his own clonePC and work with Linux and WindowsOfTheYear and he wants to learn to program in C (which I consider the mother of all languages worth learning today).. How would he go about it? What if he barely knew algebra? What if his common sense logic was a bit off?
What would he have to read (HOWTO URLs would be helpful rather then just books, but books work well to I hear) before he can even read the "Learn C in 21 days" stuff?

I'm talking about gaining some good foundation logic, not just "enough to get by". The better the foundation, the more fluid the housework.

-Mathematics and You 101?
-Pure and Simple Logic HOWTO?
-Structure and Design principals with pseudocode examples?

This may all be offtopic, and I may not have even structured this comment well enough.. but I can either try to please those that would nitpick, or I can appeal to those with a sense of reason beyond my own and would simply grant rather then talk about how I've been denied. I do hope I caused nothing more then a flood of replies of some pointers on where to go for those who wish to learn more then how to push their mouse.

-Matthew

Re:Poor Trent Waddington

[QuantumG]

what a man, he can read my web page. Moron.

Re:Security Focus and Bugtraq

[QuantumG]

let me guess, you're american right? Nah, that's rude, maybe you're just under 30 years old. That seems to be around the point that you start appreciating what it means to be old. It's funny, someone who has seen what the world was like before you were even born doesn't deserve your respect. But then again, maybe you dont respect anything.

Security Focus and Bugtraq

[QuantumG]

We need more maturity in the security industry dagnamit. Get those senior citizens onto these lists and they can give us some fatherly advice about how it was "in their day".

Let them work on a Macintosh

[chrysalis]

I'm not pro-Macintosh, and I myself have only PC at home (ehm, Psion and Atari ST, too) .
But lately, my father wanted to buy a computer to discover Internet, print photographs of my daughter, and do some word processing. I suggested him to buy an iMac.
He's 60 years old, and he has absolutely no experience with computing (even using a tape recorder is difficult for him :)
I had to configure the internet dial-up parameters, install Realplayer, and show him the basics of internet. What are search engines (I gave him only search engines in his native language, as he's english is very poor), how to save pictures, how to print them, how to read and send mail, how to launch the word processor, how to play a DVD. I also bought him a book (something like Macintosh for dummies) .
Now he really enjoys his computer. It took about 1 month for him to be autonomous. Now he's still discovering things, but he doesn't need help from anyone any more.
I'd still suggest an iMac for beginners. MacOS is easy to use. It's eye-candy. There are less viruses than in the Windows world. And for stability... well, sometimes it crashed. But it's doesn't stop working for no reason. Sometimes with Windows, after installing new software or after a crash, things are ceasing to work, and it's very difficult to fix (my Windows 2000 box doesn't work more than 2 minutes since I installed the DVD drivers, I don't know how to revert that) . So far, things like that never happened to him. His Macintosh is still running the default install with no problem so far.
Another great thing about Macintosh hardware, especially iMacs : they aren't noisy. Older people (at least my mother) find noisy PC fans really annoying. iMacs are silents, especially when the hard disk is in standby. And a last great thing about Macintosh hardware : they are easy to plug. No need for a lot of cable, and this is also very good for older people.

Re:Let them work on a Macintosh

[piecewise]

I agree completely. The Macintosh is an extremely stable platform. My grandparents have a new iMac, and it's funny, because they're so excited: They GET it! They're amazed by what they're exploring. I don't think it would have been the same for a Windows or Linux PC.

The Mac is so easy to use, and so attractive, and it isn't intimidating. The first thing you see when you turn on a Mac is an icon of a Macintosh smiling at you. The second thing you see is the Mac logo, which also has a smile on it. It may sound stupid, but that is comforting.

They're using Mac OS X, and they think it's great. So yes... the poster of this probably isn't a Mac person, but for seniors, Mac is the way to go. And Macs are dirt cheap, especially for what you get. An iMac starts at $899, monitor included.

Re:Let them work on a Macintosh

[$FFh]

For those with limited fine motor skills the one mouse button really helps too.

Taught my parents a year ago....

[gregm]

What a trip... my Mom used to one helluva typist. My Dad is a real inteligent, mechanically inclined guy with a bad attitiude towards computers. I built them a Pentium 233 running 98. I teach people how to use computers almost daily but wan't prepared for this! My Mom looked like someone who has very limited use of her right arm due to some accident years ago. You know someone who's arm is withered and curled up. She had her tounge stuck out, her eyes were rolling and she was leaning into the mouse. Fortunately she didn't start drooling. She just couldn't mouse! My Dad couldn't hunt and peck nearly as fast as my 4 year old, but he could operate the mouse fairly well. So they started working the computer together, my Mom typing while my Dad operated the mouse. Of course this led to a fairly serious argument right off the bat and I threw my hands up in disgust. They're 56 and 53 (years old) so it's not like they're really old or anything. Don't assume anything and don't forget those little things that we all take for granted aren't inborn. My parents have very high IQ's and are well respected.

BTW My Dad lost interest (big waste of time INO) and my Mom has become very proficient all on her own.

G

Re:Task-based learning

[sparty]

Well, I think the elderly will learn computers just like everybody else does. By screwing around on them and doing random stuff.

Nah, like everyone else, if they do random stuff, they'll forget about it. People remember how to do things that mean something; people also tend (in my experience) to forget things that don't mean something. Another poster made a point about not bothering with technical details that don't affect the task at hand; that is a very valid point.

The "Oh, cool, I can do that???!!!" factor is important, too. If you show someone how to do something that helps him or her but that he or she didn't think he or she could do, then have him or her do it, he or she will probably remember it. Which brings in my favorite task when teaching seniors about their computers: let them know that they can customize the way the interface looks, especially colors and font size. This introduces them to the Control Panel (on Windoze machines), which is a bit of a Pandora's box, but when you show them how to change to "High-resolution colors, large fonts" with two clicks (by using the schemes), they will often be amazed. Many seniors have poor vision (eyes, like most body parts, tend to deteriorate over time); a lot of the seniors I met didn't even realize that I could make things that much easier for them.

Get kids to teach 'em

[Nevrar]

I saw a tv news article here in New Zealand last night and it showed volunteer kids coming in in the weekends to teach the elderly how to use computers :) - personally i reckon that's a bit of a put down, but it could work i guess.

Re:Get kids to teach 'em

[suwain_2]

No no no!

Maybe I have a slanted view, but my little cousins aren't really good at more general apps; they always want to play a game. They were very confused when I logged in, and, by just banging on the keyboard, had "DOS" up. (I had run telnet to my comptuer at home; some 200 miles away) They were very confused, and thought it was lame that I was checking my e-mail rather than gaming.
________________________________________________

Re:Elitism prevents good growth in our "fine" club

[juno]

I'm one of those people who was a "power user" but didn't learn how to program until what is for my circle relatively late (high school, rather than say age 10) so perhaps I can help.

A plug for the book I learned C++ with: Practical C++ Programming (published by O'Reilly in IIRC 1996) which is what I used in my intro programming class freshman year of college, as a replacement for the regular course textbook which I didn't like. The book is well-written, coherent, and easy to use, with good examples.

Teaching how to think logically is a vastly more difficult proposition. I would tend to think that logical mindset is an innate talent-- either you have it or you don't. That said, one of the best courses I took at college (Carnegie Mellon) was called (something like) Introduction to Modern Mathematics-- basically a course in How To Prove Stuff (mostly by induction). No requirement for math background beyond basic algebra. Gave me a good foundation for how to reason about programs. The textbook was called "Classical Algebra", can't recall the author at the moment. Contact artemis@cmu.edu if you're interested and I'll see what I can dig up. Also, my high school geometry class had a section on how to do basic geometry proofs (less esoteric than induction) so you might look for a HS geometry text.

A lot of people find the idea of "where do I start?" daunting. A "power user" might be directed towards learning shell scripting to start out with. S/he can become comfortable with the basics of variables, conditionals, etc without the overhead of learning the concepts behind, say, C++ or Java, while building a tangibly beneficial system tool. Web scripting (not just HTML, scripting) is also useful in this way-- results are fast and tangible.

For whatever reason, I found Perl really accessible. Regexes are cool, and text manipulation might be easier for some than numerical manipulation.

I'm sure I'll think of something else later. Hope this helps.

Re:They're just students, after all...

[dbarclay10]

Everything you said applies to individuals. Good teachers evaluate their individual students, and act accordingly.

The point I was trying to get across was that the person in question needs to evaluate his students. He can't just get advice like "some old people can't hear well, so talk loudly". It has to be "be sure you teach appropriately for your students".

Now, you can assign people to groups all you want. Have fun. But unless you look at them individually, don't teach my kids :)

Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)

Re:They're just students, after all...

[dbarclay10]

Yes, I'd walk into a preschool class with an astrophysics book... The better I understand the fundamentals and the details, the better analogies I can make.

As for walking into a Roots concert with a Backstreet Boys T-shirt... Well, I dunno about that. I don't know who Roots are. But I know I wouldn't dress in any particular way. Well, if I thought it was going to be a randy concert, I probably wouldn't wear my best clothing. But if I felt like wearing my favorite T-shirt(it's actually just a plain blue T-shirt made of some rather nice cotton - but let's pretend it's a Back Street Boys T-shirt), then I would. Mine you, I'm a fairly big guy, and I've got fairly big friends, so I'm not worried about getting beaten up or anything. Not that I even think that would happen. Maybe it would where you come from, but any place I'm likely to go to would have plenty of people willing to defend someone if a situation arose.

But I think that's neither here nor there. I was trying to get across that the best teachers evaluated their students individual. Sure, they have to teach to the class - but that doesn't mean that they can't be aware of what each individual student is capable of, what their needs are, and how to best teach to them specifically. I don't know if it's the skill itself, or just the attitude though. I'd bet that it's the attitude. A teacher willing to really *look* at the individual is probably willing to put more effort into teaching in general. Who knows? I don't have a degree, but I'm a very, very good tutor. I dunno if I could do as well with a class of 30, but I betcha I could do just as well with a class of 10.

Anyways, have fun :)

Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)

They're just students, after all...

[dbarclay10]

I'm spending this summer teaching senior citizens how to use the Internet - specifically, email and the world wide web

Very commendable.

Is there anything in particular I should know about when tutoring the elderly?

No. Elderly people don't speak some alien language. They don't have green blood. They're just students. Teach them like you'd teach any student. Some will be faster than others. Some might have poor eyesight. Some might not hear well. Some might be a lot smarter than you(generally speaking). Just teach them like you'd teach other people.

I find analogies work best. Of course, you choose your analogies based on the audience. But that's an individual-student thing, not a generalization to be applied to differently-aged people.

Capiche?

Dave

Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)

Re:They're just students, after all...

[Snuffub]

would you walk into a preschool class with an astrophysics book? or would you walk into a roots concert with a backstreet boys rock tee shirt? if the answer to these questions is no then congradulations you just assigned people to groups. not that its always a bad thing, the problem is when youre so rigid with your assignment you cant change your opinion. There are some generalizations you can make about different groups, they dont apply to everyone in a group but if they do apply to most of the group then theyre a good place to start from untill you know more about them. hell he might walk into class and find that the entire room is 78 year old's with perfect hearing and vision who are receptive to new ideas and proficient in both C and cobal. i just wouldnt bet on it.

Re:They're just students, after all...

[Snuffub]

That's a nice idealistic way to look at it. but to say that someone is just a student misleading.

students are broken down into groups all the time and different teaching approaches are used for each group. for example, acelerated or honor's classes try to isolate a group of students who are supposedly brighter than their peers. the teered college system that our country has is another way of classifying students. Grade levels based on past experience is another.

Furthermore its hard to argue that age doesnt play a roll in the ability to grasp new concepts and learn new facts. try teaching a four year old and a 35 year old a new language, chances are the four year old will be fluent long before the older student. repeat teh experiment with a 35 year old and a 70 year old and youll get the same results.

the only point to saying that a group of people are just students when they could much more accuratly be described by seniors is to be Politicaly Correct. and this is still slashdot right??

My Experiences (limited though they are)

[JEI]

I'm a high school student with too much going on this summer to get are real job, so I do computer work for people for $10/hr. In addition to fixing things when they break (windows), I also teach them things. Most of my clients are retired people who want to be able to do certain things. For example, scan pictures and email them, use voice recognition software b/c their arthritis makes typing a problem, etc. I've found that having them sit in the chair and do everything works best, me showing how to do something usually goes in one ear and out the other.

As to you question, I would show them how to use (I assume) windows. Basic things, starting programs, closing them, using the start menu. Maybe deleting files. Use some kind of word processor as a demo for all this, so they can learn something useful, as well as how to use the OS. Show them how to start a web browser and basic things, like how to go forward/back, favorites, the history, etc.

Just my $0.02

Re:My Experiences (limited though they are)

[suwain_2]

Oh, he he... You reminded me of something.

Please explain the more common features of web browsers; my grandmother took to using the drop-down URL menu in IE as her "favorites" menu and got very upset when I went to some sites...

Also, yet another computer education pet peeve of mine -- try to explain general concepts, not a specific application. I just took a really crappy 'multimedia' course; I was hoping I would learn something. Instead, I learned a lot about the software that came with the teacher's scanner, but not much else.
________________________________________________

Re:My Experiences (limited though they are)

[KeyserDK]

I got my grandmother started on using (75+) a pc.

I'll list what I've experienced.

The Mouse movement was pretty tough to learn and double clicking is even harder. Someone mentioned solitiare, and yes it is probably the best thing for teaching how to use the mouse. Everything is there, movement & dragging, even double clicking.

Depending on the seniors give them time to get comfortable with the mouse, if they dont get it they'll keep getting frustated because they cant do anything. Ergomics is also important, look if they try to hold the arm up by itself (bad) or rest the hand on top of the mouse, even the fingers should rest on the mouse buttons. Double clicking is almost impossible otherwise.

Allthough i bought the stuff and assembled it. I didnt teach her because of time/experience issues. Instead she took a course, which was actually free (Goverment payed).

Just the fact that she met other ppl at the same level she was was a huge motivation factor.

Make sure they do the stuff themselfes, seeing another person do it helps nothing. Make sure they have a step by step guide available afterwards. They arent going to use the computer everyday and they tend to forget a bit more =). The index card someone mentioned really sounded like a great idea.

Make sure they understand that the pc really 'talks' to you. I cant think of other modern equipment that they could have used that actually talk back. So make 100% they _READ_ the text that could comeup. For example dialing up gives information on what is currently happening.

So far she is comfortable using email and word. I still haven't got her hooked on the browser thing, which is pretty hard since english isnt her native language (or mine for that matter).

Besides i think that learning how to browse web pages requires a bit of the "exploring lust" like 'hey lets see what this is' that just isnt there. Another problem is that it's pretty hard to make a step by step guide to the internet =). It's kinda like the chicken and egg problem. They wont use the net until something really usefull is there, and they wont learn about any usefull sites since they arent using the net =).

So i cant help you with the web browser stuff. Maybe some goverment info pages could be usefull, or other info they use often. Remember they have done a lot of things the same way for many many years and it's hard for ppl changing habbits.

That was my experiences on my grandmother entrance to the pc world (winter/spring).

Good luck with the course =)

I can't say it enough

[Tymanthius]

Being a vetran of the Hell Desk:

patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience patience

Foundations

[twos]

If I was going to teach a group of seniors to use the Internet, I would first make sure they had the proper foundation. Efficient mouse and keyboard skills are a must. Also a basic understanding for the OS that they will be using/learning on will help allot.

For example, my dad, who's 77, called me over to his house to show me "something weird" that was happening when he was exiting out of Internet Exploder on Winblowz 98. Seems that he was double clicking, instead of single clicking the X to exit IE and bringing up the Winblowz start menu. Even something as simple as this can be very frustrating for older persons with little computer experience.

You have to also remember that some people in the later years tend to forget things easily. Something that was taught yesterday may need to be refreshed at the next session.

Another issue is that allot of these folks are just plain afraid of this "new fangled" technology. They don't understand the inner workings of a PC and are afraid that if the click on the wrong area, or hit the wrong key that the PC will go south.

Fear is the key

[jabens]

1. Fear of looking stupid 2. Fear of failure 3. Fear of *breaking* something You should never underestimate fear. Never, never.

Re:stick to the tamer side of the web

[treat]

Unfortunately, Yahoo has a really high portion of no-longer-valid links, and they appear to make no effort to remove them when reported.

Re:stick to the tamer side of the web

[LMariachi]

Yahoo uses Google as its search engine, adding the categorized listings that Yahoo grew out of in the first place.

Re:ElderVision.Net was tackling this...

[Flat Feet Pete]

Why is it that anything to do with seniors always has sepia tones with faded edges. You even do it to the icons.

Do old people lose appreciation for colour and get better at picking out minor variations in tone?

Font size is very important

[lapse]

From my experience teaching old people to use the web, the first and most important thing is to teach them how to crank the font size _way_ up. This makes a _huge_ difference, and if you don't do it, they won't enjoy it. My parents (both in their seventies) are now completely weaned away from printed newspapers.

The mouse thing can be tricky.

[jdcook]

I showed my dad my Mac SE back in 87 or 88. He has used Wangs and PCs and dumb terminals but had never encountered a mouse. I had a Reversi (i.e. Othello) game on my Mac and this happened to be his favorite game so I tried to show him how to access it. He grasped the GUI right away. But when I told him to move the mouse to move the cursor, he picked up the mouse, moved it, and set it down. He was non-plussed when I told him he had to slide the mouse to get the cursor to move.

Senior Summer School

[johnbent]

I'm currently teaching a similar course as part of something called Senior Summer School. I try to teach general concepts in the classroom and work on learning specific techniques in the lab. Some seniors have difficulty especially with the mice due to arthritic hands so I spend a lot of time teaching keyboard shortcuts to help them avoid having to double click when necessary. Patience is key especially in the lab and the suggestion to use Freecell and Solataire is a great way to demystify computers for those seniors who are scared of them. It's worth reassuring them also that the only way to break the computer is to physically hit it - many of them get nervous when programs crash. And since they'll be almost certainly using Windows, it's a good idea to teach them how to reboot the machine when necessary. Feel free to use my lecture notes .

Re:Some good points here...

[Punto]

As we know, there is usually more than one way of doing things.

I agree. If you have to teach programming to old people, Perl is the way to go.

--

Stress security!

[andyring]

I worked with a nun at my uncle's church to set her up with a new iMac several months ago. She was familiar with the Mac as far as the basics go, she had a much-older Mac IIvx she used for a while. But, now that the 'net is at her fingertips, she gets paranoid quite easily when she sees various banner ads or email messages (spam). For instance, there is a banner ad circulating out there saying something like "Your internet connection is not optimized. Click here to fix!". Things like that are shrugged off by most of us, but to a senior who is new to computers, it's that kind of thing that will cause them to ask "Is my computer broken?" or to go and click on it and get entirely confused.

Also, stress VERY HEAVILY that web browsing and email are indeed FREE. When showing this nun aspects of email and the 'net, she will often ask me "will it cost me anything?" Stress also that unless they specifically give out a credit card number for something, no one can charge them for anything, as deceiving as a message may be.

RUN AS FAR AWAY AS YOU CAN

[OmegaDan]

I know I'm going to get modded down alot for this ... but someone needs to tell you what your up against.

I live in an retirement town which poor seniors flock to, we basically have the worst of the worst. I can tell you from first hand that the elderly are largely intractable. This isn't to say there aren't elderly who can't learn -- but most simply can't.

Theres several problems with the elderly and technology in general ...

1 Its all new to them. The elderly are very good at staying away from new technology, so many will have absolutley no frame of refrence for using a computer. Case in point : my g/f's grandfather about 3 years ago came home absolutley extatic about this new thing called an "ATM" that "gives you money and you don't even have to go into the bank!" Her grandmother still refuses to use it. Many of these people will have never used a digital system of any type before.

2 Abstraction, the elderly have difficult abstracting concepts. Try explaining to them that the internet is millions of computers by connected by all sorts of different things ... over their heads ... try explainig why an e-mail came back (and thus have to get into what mail servers are), just impossible. My own grandmother dosen't understand the difference between using her computer and using the internet.

3 Most senior citizens formed their personalities and prefrences in their early 20's. For most of them, that was half a century ago. Brain plasticity (ability to learn new skills) decreases with age. If you learn a language before the age 14 it is stored in a different place in your brain then if you had started younger in your life. Some elderly are *incapable* of understanding computers.

4 Lastly, many of the elderly are just assholes. My grandmother absoultley gets off on screaming and yelling at people. She looks FORWARD to it. This isn't just her, ever been to Arbys and see a 70 year old yell at some poor 16 year old until she's in tears?

Anticdote : My grandmother has a street light on her property for which she is assessed a property tax of 40$ a year. The lighbulb went out on a SUNDAY NIGHT, and she called the city and left a scathing message to the tune of "I pay 40$ a year I want this thing fixed now!" ... she was absoutley livid that there was no one on a sunday night who would come fix her street light.

-- my point is, many of the elderly have lived long and FUCKED up lives -- alot of them who were young during the depression era have alot of issues. Alot just have issues.

5 Their sense of entitlement. The elderly are the greediest portion of the population -- they feel they are owed everything. Your gonna have people call you up and DEMAND help with something *RIGHT NOW*. How is your patience?

-- now -- I've certainly painted a bad picture of the elderly here. There are of course some very kind and nice elderly people out there.

So now I've listed the traits that will make them unable to learn, these are traits of folks who can learn :

1. People who are reasonably affluent and it good health.
2. People who own other technologies like microwave ovens, cd players, people who can work their vcrs (Seriously, if you can't work a VCR how could you ever use a computer)
3. People who aren't scathing mad at the world (we have alot of those here).

Lastly, I'd like to attack the MS propaganda that computers are "easy to use" and the capitalist-consumer-tripe that you have to have a computer to participate in society today.

First off: Computers are not easy to use, they are easier to use then they used to be. MS's claim is that anyone can use their OS, bullshit. You know how many people there are who can't install a program or copy a file to a disk? "The only intuitive interface is the nipple, after that its all learned."

Seconly: The media has tried VERY hard to make people think they MUST have a computer. Thats simply untrue. There are alot of people who simply shouldn't have computers -- and theres nothing wrong with that.

teaching seniors...

[thschmid]

(seniors: ppl over 65 y/o, that have never used a computer in their life!)
i have been teaching seniors, on and off, for the last couple of years now.
most seniors i know, have a tough time learning about new things, especially when i comes to technology.
the first thing you have to do, for your own sake and theirs, is make everything you do and say idiot proof. dont use any technical terms!
there is a definite need to know basis for those, and senior (actually every enduser) doesnt need to know! (e.g. POP3, TCP/IP. ...) it just complicates things.
put away your geek pride and stick with the simple things. i admit its tough, but it works far better.
before you start teaching, think about what you want them to know about the subject (computers, internet). email and the web are must do's, but i never even touched the subject of chatrooms and such. dont get me wrong, i would have tried hard to get that info across, but there is on real need for that.
the only thing that most seniors expect from the net, is exchanging letters with their friends and families, looking at pics of their grandkids, and the odd one subscribes to a daily joke mailing list.
most software today, has way to many options for my taste, so you have to shield them from those aswell. unlike something i have read in one of these comments, seniors usually dont poke around software to find out what it can do!
reading, deleting, saving, replying, forwarding emails, and viewing attachments does the trick.

eventhough i agree that search engines (even google) can be somewhat confusing, its a good idea to teach seniors the concept. bookmarks are a definite must aswell.

correct usage of the mouse, is also i thing that needs to be thought. most of my "clients" confused the left and right mouse buttons, or moved the mouse while dbl clicking. the later is usually the case, when they concentrate on the mouse instead of the screen. tell them to follow the arrow/cursor on the screen while moving the mouse. also tell them to "cup" the mouse with their hands, thus using middle and index finger on the l/r mouse buttons.
a game of xbill would definitly help them with their coordination, but i wouldnt even want to go there. which brings me to my next point.

dont let them use linux. please!!! no one i know wants to add to evil bills riches, but the only thing you'll archive by "trying" to teach linux to a senior with no prior computer knowledge, is one less senior using computers and the net.
if they get frustrated by something, that their kids talked them into in the first place (maybe!), they'll just throw the towel.

by the way, if they ever encouter a bsod in windows and they ask you about it, dont start ranting away, about how this piece of software sucks ... tell them its normal!
sound aweful in know, but try explaining to them why they were sold a faulty product. there is no know fix for faulty MS products, so tell them how to fix them (ctrl+alt+del, in most cases) and go on with life. just think, its waisting your time and theirs

Tom
PS: comments and questions via email welcome.
PPS: flamers suck!

Re:teaching seniors...

[jrp2]

dont let them use linux. please!!! no one i know wants to add to evil bills riches, but the only thing you'll archive by "trying" to teach linux to a senior with no prior computer knowledge, is one less senior using computers and the net.
No argument on the "no Linux", but there is a decent option to MS, and that would be Apple. I don't use them personally, but many have found them to be a good blend of power and simplicity.

How to help someone use a computer

[webdoyenne]

Phil Agre, who edits the Red Rock Eater News Service, has put together a wonderful essay on helping people use computers without oppressing them that should be read by anyone teaching any sort of computer skills to another person or group, regardless of the ages involved.

The Best Way...

[RoninM]

...is to beat them. Mercilessly. You'd be surprised how attentive granny gets when you chain her down to the ergonomic chair, unscrew the lumbar support, and give her a thrashing with it. CLICK THE GOD-BE-F#*@ING-DAMNED MINIMIZE WINDOW, GRANDMA.

Or, anyway, that's what worked for my grandma, God rest her soul.

Diversity among the elder generation

[archmedes5]

You'll find that older individuals have as diverse opinions and attitudes about computers as everyone else, the worst you can do is to assume that they're unable to grasp technical concepts. If they're there, they're eager to learn. Basically just teach them like you would teach anyone else.

Assure them they can't break the machine

[CyberLeader]

In general computer classes that I've taught (and not just those for the elderly) I've found many students who are afraid that they'll "break" the computer. They've been told that computers are expensive, that they crash, that they're delicate, that they're complex, and so forth. Combine this with students who are sometimes very self-conscious that they seem to be the only ones on earth who aren't computer-literate, and they approach every step with fear and trepidation, which inevitably hampers experimentation and learning.

So start off your class with a reassuring statement about how robust the computer is. No matter how they click their mouse or type on their keyboard, they aren't going to physically damage the machine. Even if they somehow manage to find a way to erase or misplace the software on the computer, it is easily replaced. You probably want to encourage them not to spill drinks in the keyboard or pound on the machine with a brick, but other than that they should be fine. Once they learn that they're not at risk to incur a $2,000 repair bill, they should be more comfortable experimenting with the machine.

Some good points here...

[sgage]

An important part of my consultancy is tutoring elderly people. The two most important points have been raised already: 1) Patience! It can take older folks a bit of time to wrap their brains around many computer concepts we take for granted. Sort of like it did for us in the beginning. At least those of us who started in the Radio Shack TRS-80/Commodore PET/Apple ][/ CPM era :-) 2) Fear. Many older folks are indeed afraid that they'll break something. They need to be reassured that experimentation is OK. And be ready to fix things :-)

Other points: As we know, there is usually more than one way of doing things. It might be best to stick with one consistent way... e.g., maybe the main menu route. Then you can convince them that the toolbar buttons and keyboard shortcuts do exactly the same thing, somewhere down the line.

Get them to write stuff down! All of my clients keep a special notebook for computer stuff. Make them write stuff down in some detail... cutting/copying and pasting seems to be a real bitch for some reason. The desktop metaphor is just similar enough to the "real world" to really be confusing to some folks.

Get them comfortable with email right off the bat. This can get them nicely reconnected with their families in many cases, and plus makes it easier to support them.

Make sure they understand the difference between the Internet and the Web and email and so forth. It's not as obvious as it seems! And it's fun to see the light go off when they figure out just what the Web is...

If you're not into it, don't do it. I've worked with folks who have had very bad experiences at the hands of impatient, inarticulate jerks who made them feel stupid, and it takes some time and effort to work through it. This ain't rocket science, it's just a bit different from what they're used to.

Which leads to my final point: Have some heart for these people - like them! Have some time to talk about non-computer stuff, etc. Find some points of contact. You will be so rewarded when they become adept computer jockeys! And even if they don't!

- sgage

Gear it to them (but don't miss things out)!

[nine9]

I work in a large(-ish) chain of internet cafés (easyEverything), and sometimes we get more "mature" customers in. The two main things I've noticed are: (a) they want it to be geared to them (i.e. regarding what they want to do that day); and (b) they actually do appreciate to learn the background of things. UNlike the majority of the younger technoweenies, older people have more experience, and less impatience. They're actually willing to know why something is a particular way, 'cause they know that if they understand how it works that there's less chance that they'll "f*** it up". Old people can often get easily embarassed, so actually that is quite a major point.

-Mark

Må jeg få en tjener? www.nine9.ukshells.co.uk

Best book I've found

[MrResistor]

I know, real men read man pages, but real men already know how to use a computer, so that approach won't really help. Thus, my suggestion...

The best book I've found for first time PC users is by Cliff's Notes, and it's called "Using Your First PC" or something obvious like that. I got it for my mom when I finally dragged her kicking and screaming into the digital age (her typewriter actually has keys that jam!!!). The best thing about it is that it's small, as you would expect from Cliff's Notes. It's just a basic reference with tons of screen shots.

It started out as a joke.

[bendude]

Years ago, I saw a cartoon somewhere of a couple of young ladies talking whilst old men we're busily working away at computer terminals behind them. One of the girls says to the other "You know, they've just improved so much since I taught them how to search for porn."

I always wondered how close to the truth that idea was, until I had to instruct a 70 something guy at work on how to use the internet. I started off showing him some of the usual things, search engines, typing addresses directly in, etc. He was floundering along until I showed him some porn. Now he does all his own surfing, only asking for help with little hints and tricks to do what he wants faster. He now has a vision of what it is he wants to do, which I think was the problem in the first place.

The fact that...

[BiggestPOS]

They are just like everybody else, only older. I find just as many 20-40 year olds who are totally internet clueless (can't find the address bar, can't find the send/recv button in OE) as the older generation. In fact, generally the only complaint I have about our older customers is the occasional one that just can't hear you :) I talk with about 60-70 customers a day, and I'd say that the elderly demographic is at least as educated as the generation just below them. Don't automatically label someone as inept just because they are old, as you will be old someday, and everything will be new, and you will probably have trouble checking your email.

DO NOT touch the keyboard or mouse. Ever!

[follower-fillet]

The best advice I can give about teaching people to use a computer is never, ever, (no, not even then) touch the keyboard or mouse.

I know it's just so tempting but you've pretty much lost it if you give in. I've heard too many people say "And then he grabbed the mouse and typed something, but I don't know what..."

I also think it pays to remind people that they're not stupid. Don't let people say "Oh I don't get it, I guess I'm stupid." Tell 'em it's the programmer or designers fault--which it is generally.

I also agree with what's been said about getting people to write things down.

Teaching Search Engines

[Lozzer]

In the Daily Mirror in the UK is a fiendish general knowledge crossword. Finding the answers to the questions on the net is good for teaching search engines, and some of the big info sites (e.g. imdb, britannica, expedia). It also helps for bookmarks, as similar categories of questions often come up.

Re:Some Techniques...

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

The "tree" metaphor has also been successful with a lot of my clients. The hard drive is the "root", the folders/directories are the "branches" and the files are the "leaves". Go ahead and draw a picture; this isn't patronizing.

One confusing thing about this is that ONE goes DOWN from the root to the "leaves" in a computer filesystem, and real world trees always (I'm fairly sure of this) grow up, not down.

Re:Linux is dying

[WhiteWolf666]

God--this troll is anonying

Bring back the goatcex.....at least that is perverse.

Even slashdot's trolls are getting weak.

Lol

Start with "basics"

[John_Booty]

I my experience teaching older people and newbies about computers, I always find that it's worth it to start with the "basics"... ie, the concepts of windows (the windows on the screen, not Windows(tm), moving the mouse, etc.

People sometimes get a little frustrated with slow progress at first (because it's a while before they can get to the "fun stuff") but I think it turns out to be well worth it.

Also, I've noticed a sign that things aren't going well is when your "students" have to resort to rote memorization. For example, my mom writes down every single step I tell her. If I say "go to the File menu, and then pick Print" she has to write it down in excruciating detail, ie, "move mouse pointer to the word 'file', press left mouse button, move mouse down to word 'print', press left mous button, etc..."

And she wonders why her progress is so slow. You can't really begin to be productive with a computer until the basics (moving the mouse, pulling down menus, etc) are intuitive.

Of course, we were all newbies at one point. And old people don't have the benefit of having grown up with all sorts of electronic gizmos like us. Come on... how many of you had your paths into the computer world paved by Ataris and NES's? Hehee...

http://www.bootyproject.org

Do not (!) start with the basics.

[pele]

Don't forget that old one "You don't know how to make kids, dad.." My mom is 70 and we're at the stage where I send her instructions by email on how to fix things that my little niece messes up (email/browser/dialup settings, new drivers, whatnot). Old guys also tend to take notes and, believe you me, their notes do actually help them (unlike when I take notes, I can't make out heads or tails of it later). Also tell them to hold the mouse steady when doing a double-click - I've tried and tried so many times explaining it to my mom untill I told her "hold the mouse steady" and immediately she did it no probs. If it's not working then set the timeout on a double-click to something slightly bigger. And that's that...

shaky hands

[caduguid]

One thing I never realized until I tried to teach my grandparents how to use the mouse, is that it can be tricky for folks with shaky hands to double-click.

(click-shake-click winds up as 'drag and reselect' and not as 'open/launch'.)

Adjusting the double-click speed helped a bit, but the best thing was getting them a trackball. Much easier to isolate the movement from the clicking. They never looked back.

Re:shaky hands

[skt]

You can navigate most of Windows without double-clicking the mouse button. Some versions of windows has a single-click feature that you can enable so that double-clicking on files and shortcuts is not necessary. It almost makes the entire computer look and feel like a web browser. I don't personally think this feature is any good, but if somebody has problems double-clicking it is worth trying.

Problems with mouse

[matria]

When I taught an elderly librarian to use e-mail several years ago, he was so unsteady with the mouse that I taught him to use the keyboard instead. He's still very happy with his system, and keeps a small notebook with the keystrokes in the drawer next to his computer. I also found that it is better to only teach what is needed as it is needed.

Teaching seniors... wow...

[Misch]

That's quite a daunting task you've taken on there! Here's what I recommend:

1: You're going to have to keep your group size small. 1 person trying to keep 20 seniors to task is just not going to work effectivley (IMHO) Back in HS, I helped with a training session for teachers. We were in a 1:5 ratio, and it was hard enough.

2: Plan, Prepare & Practice your lessons. Think about what you are going to teach. Think about things from their angle. If something is glaringly obvious to you, it's not going to be glaringly obvious to them.

3: Handouts are effective! After being asked over and over and over again about "How do I do this...", I created a series of paper handouts that has step by step instructions to do it. (Screen shots are helpful!)

4: See what they already know. Find out what the people already know. Try to get them working in teams with people who have a little bit more experience.

And my last rule of thumb: KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) I can't emphasize just how important it is for you to keep things simple.

KISS

[toybuilder]

Presumably, your audience will be inexperienced about the Internet. While there might be techsavvy seniors, I think the biggest benefit to open the Internet to the group is to keep it simple and go for the least common denominator.

Don't spend too much time explaining how the Internet works. Just give enough details (and de-technologize is possible) to explain that the web browser is like an access device (like a telephone) to information stored somewhere else. Lots of first-timers end up thinking the information somehow is stored on the local machine.

It might even be sufficient to just point them to Yahoo and it's services (Yahoo mail). Or (shudder) even AOL. Mind you, this is just to get them started and to get comfortable with how to use a computer to access the net-connected world. Think of it as training wheels... :)

Teaching the elderly

[toybuilder]

I suspect many in your audience will be hard of hearing, seeing, and remembering details... So, print easy-to-read simple step-by-step cheat-sheets for doing common tasks. And, repetition improves retention. So be sure to repeat some of the more important points throughout your presentation. Remember, repetition improves retention.

My parents are between 75 & 80 ...

[ReidMaynard]

And just 1 year ago my dad's sister (she's 83) was given ("had thrust upon her" was what she said) a P166. All she does is email ... to those (smiles) wonderful kids who gave it to her. She still doesnt *really* like it.

After this ... my parents ask me, with pain in their eyes, if I was planning on surprising them with "one of those things".

The way seniors will become internet savey, is when savey users become seniors ....

stick to the tamer side of the web

[Snuffub]

For many people at slashdot a search at google will probably turn up the most indepth information on a subject that they want to research. But for a senior the information is probably going to be too hard to sort through and too littered with dead ends. I would suggest directing them towards specific sites rather than the web at large.

For example, if they want to look up information babe ruth mlb's web site would be a better place to start than a search engine.

if you give them a list of bookmarks ranging from encyclopedia's to trivia sites itll be easier for them to digest the information than if you give them a search engine and show them how to get whatever they want.

Re:stick to the tamer side of the web

[kwerkey]

If you're going to teach them how to use a search engine, however, I'd suggest Yahoo. Because they group things into categories rather than only searching for keywords, you can be 95% sure you're getting relevant content.

Re:stick to the tamer side of the web

[angry old man]

Bagh, back in my day, people didn't need to teach senior citizens how to use the web. Senior citizens were old and frail and we just put them out to pasture.

Now-a-days all you kids and your eco-friendly fancy schmancy respect-everybody want to teach old people how to use the internet.

Well, all I have to say is this... If old people needed to learn how to use the 'net, then they would learn it. Your typical old-nearly-dead (such as myself) spends their time watching Alex Trebeck and Pat Sajek and we have no need for the fancy-schmancy commerciallized contorsion that used to be the internet.

Back in my day, we used the internet to trace milatary sectrets and send information to colleagues. Now it's a commercialized joke that's dominated by too few large corporations.

Instead of teaching us old fogies how to use the internet, we'd rather that you gave us all sponge baths.

Re:stick to the tamer side of the web

[Deadplant]

Good point, however if you take a gander at google.com today you'll find thay've added a large categorized listing like yahoo's got. I haven't browsed it yet so I don't know how good it is, but it is google, it'll probably be good!

Re:stick to the tamer side of the web

[Sniser]

1.) Yahoo is MUCH to cluttered!

2.) The Google Directory IS good.<br>
http://directory.google.com/Top/Society/Issues/B us iness/Allegedly_Unethical_Firms/<br>
Compare this to the <a href="http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=unethic al">meagre 5 hits</a> on Yahoo!.<br>
Nuff said.

Re:stick to the tamer side of the web

[banshee2000]

LOL you go pops! I'd love to get you old foggies on the net and OFF THE DAMN ROAD! :P Hugz Pops

Re:stick to the tamer side of the web

[whereiswaldo]

Obviously all "old people" don't think like you do. I've seen range in energy and enthusiasm rangin from one foot in the grave to happy and young inside to busy all the time, to grumpy as hell. Also some older people are interested in learning the Internet. Others don't give a crap.

Re:Solitaire, metaphors - Good thread!

[lacoste]

This is an excellent thread of suggestions here, I think the RAM/HD to physical desktop/drawers is great, as well as the other tips in these threads.

Lac
--
Vidi Vici Veni

Hardware considerations

[mjflory]

If your students have arthritis or a little shakiness in their hands, they'll find that a "double-click" becomes a single-click, a drag, and a single-click. Most annoying. A trackball may help. Setting the monitor at a low resolution makes fonts and icons bigger. Windows, unfortunately, doesn't scale up application fonts automatically even if a "large" display scheme is used. Keyboards? Most folk I know like "clicky" ones. (Remember Northgate?) Teaching folks who (like me) didn't grow up with PC's can teach you a lot about how much we assume unthinkingly. I can second the comment about explaining system hierarchies clearly, especially RAM vs. disk. (Why doesn't Random Access Memory "remember" past a reboot?) I set up a PC for a *very* intelligent scientist. He typed a paragraph onto the 25-line screen; as it scrolled off the top, he thought the machine had erased the first sentence! Be prepared to realize how much you've learned -- and forgotten that you ever didn't know. Best wishes!

History...

[yolto]

Definitely teach them some history. That way they can understand where we came from.

Also, go into the basics of computing. Teach basic concepts about what the different parts are, how they connect, etc. I've heard many first time learners complain that courses they take jump in too quickly without teaching them the basics.

A good teaching aide might be the documentary series "Triumph of the nerds". It's a great show that shows how the computer revolution took place and how we went from the days of the big mainframe to the desktop market of today. For the internet, there is a "Triumph of the nerds 2.0" which details the internet revolution from the days before arpanet up to now. Great series, and the format is entertaining and interesting. And Robert X. Cringely does a great job narrating.
-----------------
Kevin Mitchell

teaching beginners

[Alien54]

Here is a routine that I have used from time to time for those on the low end of the learning curve:

1) with Power off - have them find all of the keys on the keyboard (enter key, escape key, functions keys. etc) Make the push ther keys, which is why the power is off
2) With Power off - mouse drill, as above - pick up the muse find the ball, etc.
3) Power on and off drills - how to tell if it is on, sleeping. etc. How to turn on the computer, how to shut it off, correctly.
4) Following directions - do a simple installation of something with a professional manual.

The point of this is to get used to the manual, how to figure things out, and how to know when to quite because you are over your head.

Do not explain the directions to them! Ask them to read the directions, system requirements, etc. on each individual bit, ask them the vital question. "what does that mean to you?" "Read it again" etc.

Example:

"Okay, read the first line" - 'requires windows 2000'
Okay! "What does that mean to you?" - 'it needs windows'
"right! what kind of windows does your computer have?" - 'I don't know'
Okay! What did it say when it started?" - 'I don't remember'
"Well, let's look" - 'Okay'
"Good. let's shut down the Computer" - (student does so, because you already taught this)
"good, now turn it on" - (Student does so, because you already taught this)
"excellent, - What does it say you have?" - 'Redhat Linux' -
"alright, let's read that first line" - 'requires Windows 2000'
"Right. And what kind of windows do you have?" - 'Redhat Linux
"good. Now is that windows 2000?" - Nope.'
"Right! so can you use this on this computer?" - 'Nope'
"Right. - Is that Windows at all?" - I guess not"
"Right. Now what about that computer there?" - 'yes it is, I see the logo'

ETC. through reading the instructions. This obviously needs alot of patience, but gets the basics covered quickly.

handle questions by having them look.

('Will this run on my machine?' - "What does it say?")

If you keep focussing on people looking and learning and doing it themselves and getting more familiar, that will handle things thoroughly.

Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip

Re:The orthoginal problem

[Gordonjcp]

ASIDE: Do you think that "the youth of today"(tm) are less likely to "fall for" televangelisim etc {snip}

Probably. I grew up in the 70's and 80's (I'm 27) so I've been exposed to the Reagan/Thatcher years, Live Aid, all these things.

I read, mostly. When I do watch TV, I like programmes with car chases, where stuff blows up, and stupid people hurt themselves. And the X-Files.

I don't believe any of it, and I don't want some fat sweaty Yank shouting about God. When I want God, I'll read the Bible, not watch it on TV.

Re:Games

[Chundra]

Compare with the text only nethack. It teaches you all the primary functions on *nix. Deciphering cryptic shit, using the keyboard, thinking out of the box, using your imagination, etc.

Some Techniques...

[PostScript]

Having spent a number of years assisting older new computer users in becoming accustomed to their machines, I think I can offer some helpful suggestions. My advice is perhaps best broken into three categories: attitude, metaphors and technology.

Attitude

One of the most common mistakes I see among younger people working with the elderly, even well-meaning younger people who are volunteering to help in the first place, is a patronizing or condescending attitude. Most older computer users expect that computers are going to be frustrating, to some degree. They don't need to be "soothed" and can deal with frustration. By the same token, they don't need to be faced with two sources of frustration: the computer and the instructor. To avoid contributing to frustration:

1. Speak clearly and at a moderate pace and a volume perhaps slightly louder than you are used to using with twenty-somethings. This is a generally good habit to get into with people in their seventies and eighties. Don't scream, but don't mumble, either.

   Don't digress. While you may think it is profoundly important to explain how the software is working in the background, or what the difference between RAM and the hard drive is, this extra information is just clutter to someone trying to accomplish a task. Only bring up extraneous information if you are asked a direct question.

   Use common language and avoid jargon. If jargon is necessary, define all terms. It's true that people benefit from explanations and context, but only if they understand those explanations.

This last point leads to my next section, on the use of appropriate metaphors.

Metaphors

The biggest conceptual leap for an older computer user is the idea of hierarchy in the computer, whether that hierarchy is expressed in the layers of the file system, or in layers of stacked windows. Operating system GUIs, all of them, fail miserably in terms of usability by allowing windows to be stacked, and allowing non-modality. Yes, of course you readers of Slashdot are power users, and these things don't confuse you, but have you ever been in a forty-five minute conversation trying to explain what happens when a pop-up window disappears behind the main browser window? It is impossible to overestimate how difficult this concept is for many older people. It is not, by any means, a lack of intelligence, capability, memory or any such thing. Rather, it is a learned concept that the average Slashdot reader was fortunate enough to pick up transparently in childhood. I don't mean to suggest older users _won't_ get the hierarchy concept, but that instructors should not brush by the idea without acknowledging what a big conceptual leap it is. Metaphors can help the transition.

There's a reason why the Macintosh has a "desktop"; it was presumed that the metaphor of the desk and working with static, page-like files would allow users to comfortably transition to the hierarchic file system. Use the desktop metaphor to explain the idea of layered windows, which are much like stacked pages.

The "tree" metaphor has also been successful with a lot of my clients. The hard drive is the "root", the folders/directories are the "branches" and the files are the "leaves". Go ahead and draw a picture; this isn't patronizing.

By the way, don't encourage new users of any type to mulitask. For example, never, ever, ever start by saving a document to a personal folder in the hierarchy. Save everything to the default location. Then, close all applications, and commence a completely different exercise: moving the document from one place to another. This prevents users from conflating the function of the application and the filesystem.

Technology

It is extremely worthwhile to attempt to set up your users' computers beforehand to make their experience better. Make sure that all applications are easily accessible from the Start or Apple menu. Make sure that all windows in applications are maximized, so the desktop is hidden (this is much less confusing). Make sure each user has a "My Documents" or personal folder accessible from the desktop. Make sure that to whatever extent is possible, applications present modal windows, and that Web sites you visit do not generate pop-ups or other screen clutter. Plan the lesson ahead of time and set the lesson up in your software, so that you are not in the position of confusing the user in the process of correcting an overlooked and extraneous step.

fear of new technology

[Technodummy]

Also, don't forget to tell them that computers have limitations, they're not magic, they can't read your mind when you want something and don't know how to get it.

For a lot of new users, young and old, knowing computers aren't perfect makes them a lot less scary and a lot more approachable.

consistency...

[Technodummy]

Setup of computers is important for consistency, this may be hard, depending what the computers are normally used for.

Multiple operating systems in the one learning environment can be confusing to new users if their neighbour does something and it works, and they do it and it doesn't or it's different.

tricks of confidence

[Technodummy]

Most scams encourage people to do something immediately, no waiting... they need that money right now or "you'll miss out on the deal" kinda stuff...

If they come across an "offer" they think sounds good, encourage them to get professional advice on it, and if there's no time for that, pass on the offer.

People don't like to miss out on opportunities, and this is one of the things played on by the parasites. Depending on the scam, they can just sound very professional, giving you confidence in them, but some of them make friends with their victims, gain their trust and then abuse it.

Encourage them to ask questions of both the person making the offer and of their friends and family whom they really *do* trust.

And also, of what to do if they think they have been caught in a scam. Many people are embarassed at having been fooled, especially by people who pose as their friends. They need to know that people will not laugh at them, or disbelieve them and that they have rights.

talk to them...

[Technodummy]

use their names... find out their backgrounds, why they want to learn this sort of thing... it'll put them at ease, and help you tailor your approach.

*sigh*

[Technodummy]

It sounds like you're unable to teach someone outside a particular demographic. Your lack of empathy... I would like to say astounds me, but it doesn't.

They're human beings, with the same basic wants and needs of other human beings. They want to be happy, and they like to avoid suffering.

It sounds like you overloaded them with all the wrong kinds of information.

Yes it's all new, or they wouldn't be going to a class about it.

A public pool of knowledge is not over anyone's head. I'd say you explained it in a confusing way, and since you're convinced they're incapable of learning, you're just assuming it's their fault, and not your own. When communication fails, take a look at both sides.

Mail is often returned at the post office, I don't think they'd have any trouble adjusting if you explain it properly.

Memory *retention* is not as good as you get older, but they are not incapable of learning, any more than you are incapable of having empathy for others, the difference there, is that they are trying to learn.

Some seniors may be grumpy, have you ever seen the way they're often treated? especially in retirement towns... and especially by people like you, who say they are incapable of learning. I'd be grumpy as hell too. Show some compassion, they're human beings. They're not stupid or useless or in the way, they have minds and ideas and feelings, they're part of the community.

You listed some qualities you thought made for good students. People who already know how to use technology, are in good health and are wealthy. I'm sorry to say, but that really just sounds like you can't communicate with someone who isn't familiar with technology, or has health problems... maybe that's just too hard for you, that's okay, but it doesn't make people who don't fit into that group, unable to learn.

I do agree that most OSs are not easy to use, which is why a lot of beginners need classes on getting familiar with it. Many people have recommended the Macintosh system, which would be good if you have access to it, but if they do own a different computer it's better to be helping them with what they will be using at home.

There are alot of people who simply shouldn't have computers

This sentence really does not become you.

There are people out there who don't *need* computers, but it's far beyond your control of who should or shouldn't have a computer. Most people don't *need* their computers, even programmers. If they all vanished tomorrow, there are other things we could do. Although, I think we'd miss them.

Maybe you found teaching them frustrating, but I'm sure they found it equally frustrating (if not more so), being taught by you.

If you don't like teaching seniors, don't do it. You may put some of these people off computers for the rest of their lives. If you like the idea of teaching, and want to see if you fit in better with another age group, try kids, they're not usually scared of new things.

You did try though, many people don't ever try and give back to their communities, so be proud of that.

WOW... check out this site... very impressive

[Technodummy]

I just wish my grandpa was alive to see this

don't bet on it *grin*

[Technodummy]

Oh well, perhaps I'll have to wait for the internet generation to grow grey hairs...

It's a good idea, maybe you could start a silver surfers anti-spam group... a lot of senior's rights groups do some fantastic work with local councils

hard to find...

[Technodummy]

I am sure they would have been better off digging up some old folks already on the internet, and let them teach their peers. it's hard to find a senior silver surfer to teach... you'll have to pry them all away from their keyboards first... (only half kidding)

some of them are busy researching their family trees, keeping track of numerous grandchildren and have busy social lives...

it'd be great to see more senior teachers out there, but if there aren't enough, let the younguns go forth so there will be in the future...

Re:The orthoginal problem

[yali]

So the real question for seniors on the net is: how do you prepare people who were "outraged" by the mere idea (in its day) that game-shows were sometimes fixed and who think that anything that looks and feels like a news show is relatively unbiased?

This is a great question, and probably as important a component of teaching people about the Internet as the technological side.

Here are a couple of ideas that occur to me:

1. Give them examples of stories about people getting ripped off or hurt. You can't come up with an example to prepare them against every possible con scenario, but you can try to instill some skepticism by giving them an idea about the breadth and creativity of unscrupulous people on the Internet.

2. Show them some actual sites with incorrect information, poor business practices, etc. A good example (that would probably hit home for many older people) might be to look up a medical condition on several authoritative-looking websites, and show them the differences and contradictions among the various websites' descriptions of symptoms, treatments, etc.

3. When they're starting out, some of the guidelines you'd use with your kids are probably applicable here as well. Don't give out identifying information except perhaps an email address for registration, don't give out credit card numbers, don't give out passwords, etc. Of course, you can't talk down to them or they'll be (justifiably) insulted, and they will probably eventually want to do things like e-commerce. So also tell them about the things you should consider before buying stuff online (e.g., return policy, privacy policy, reputation of the merchant, etc.). If they wait a while before they start doing e-commerce, the extra net-savviness from their experience will probably help them in finding such information online.

4. Show them the extent of online horrors by sending them to goatse.cx. (Just kidding, I think.)

Set up a custom, local web page

[Random Man]

I think one of the best things you can do is to set up a custom web page on their local hard drive, and set the browser to use it as the default home page.

This custom page can be very clear, with helpful instructions, and contain only the links you tell them about (Yahoo mail, Google, whatever). Plus you can put a google search box right there.

Anyway, making a custom web page, stored on the local hard drive, set as default, will make their experience much better. You can obviously create a template to copy over for each person as well, and then have a main page that lists all their names. This is for when one computer is shared by many...

It sounds like a great way to give back, thank you!

whatever you do....

[djocyko]

don't teach them that the web is the internet. I've lost count to how many times I have been asked if after closing IE you have to reconnect to the net.

then again...maybe you do wanna keep it simple despite it being completely misleading. it's like grammer school. They only teach you what you need to know till you are taught better.

Don't forget...

[march]

After thinking many times about teaching my grandparents and my wife's father how to use it, I realized that dispite their lack of an understanding in much of the stuff we take for granted (like the connection of pressing the button on the mouse making a selection on the screen), they had physical limitations as well.
None of them could easily type on the keyboard due to lack of motorcontrol (from old age and arthritis). Kind of put a damper on the whole thing and I wound up not doing it.
/greg

Games

[kstumpf]

I had to teach some older relatives of mine. What I did the very first day was show them how to get to the windows games, ie solitaire and minesweeper.

Once they got caught up in a game of solitaire, they got over the intimidation of the computer and learned the mouse very quickly without even realizing it.

Its also a good way to introduce menus like options and help, since its all very logical in the context of a game.

Re:Games

[maninblackhat]

Actually, that's the primary reason Solitaire and Minesweeper were included with Windows. Between the two games, you use all primary mouse functions - single click, click and drag, right click, double click, click with both mouse buttons at once. I have often used these games for mouse training with great success.

Re:The orthoginal problem

[Johnny Starrock]

I doubt it. People really arn't getting any brighter or gullible.

Teaching computer skills

[hillct]

I've found that there are two distinct styles or approaches used when teaching computer skills.

First, the most common method is to teach by example and promote task oriented proficiency, such as is done if the classic for dummies books. This methos is by far the preferred method when doing introductory training, and is probably most appropriate for senior citizens who don't nesecerily have a concept of the overall capabilities of computers or technology as a whole.

The second method, which is far less common, but which I prefer and feel would be much more effective for inquisitive indeviduals (those who chose to become computer literate, bot because they felt the need to, but rather, because they wished to). That is, to provide a conceptual framework around which the student can develop experience and gain task oriented proficiency, rather than teach in a task oriented fashion.

It comes down to the old saying:
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he will eat for a long time to come... or however it goes

I would think the former strategy would be a better teaching method for senior citizens though. This is what I've found in my short time as an adult education instructor.

--CTH


---

E-mail

[sirisaac82]

The experience I've had from teaching seniors is that more than anything they want to learn how to e-mail (kids, grandkids, etc). But you obviously can't just jump into it. Teach them how to do the basics first, type, turn the computer on, and the big one is to properly use a mouse. Then go to the internet and show them how to use email and lastly the web. And try to remember that they are not stupid, it just takes them a lot of time.

Currently Teaching G-Ma

[8bahl]

My G-Ma is over 70 and bought her first computer this week online... (With help of course.) I find games she likes help her in using her mouse... (Solitare, Slingo, Freecell...) As far as the WWW-Browsing... That is still coming along... Baby steps... We all didn't learn everything over night either....

-My two cents... Really helpful eh?

Ergonomics

[selan]

Three words: Remember physical limitations.

• Your students may use bifocals or reading glasses and will probably have trouble reading the small font sizes on most web pages. Show them how to increase the font size setting on their browser.
• Small mice and keyboard keys may be difficult for arthritic hands to manipulate as easily as us youngsters do. Be patient, and encourage your students to have patience while learning new equipment that may be difficult or painful to use.

Good luck! It may be hard work, but you'll be rewarded by the smile of joy when a grandmother gets an email from her grandson for the first time.

The LAST thing I want...

[phillymjs]

...is some damned old man in front of me on the Information Superhighway, doing 25mph and with his left blinker on for miles!

Homer: "Marge, please, old people don't need to get on the Internet. They need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use."

~Philly

Dear God NO!

[Lottaguns]

It's bad enough they do 40mph with the left turn signal on in the fast lane of REAL highways. You want to bring them HERE?!

Write Down Instructions

[merger]

Over the past two years I have taught my 82 year old grandma to get on the computer, use the internet, send email, and draw with paintbrush. At first she was slow and couldn't remember where to click, how many times. The best thing you can do are to write down detailed instructions including little diagrams of what the buttons to click on look like, and catergorize them, like "check email", "send email", "shutdown computer", "open dial up connection". At first they will likely use these a lot but when they use the computers more, they'll find themselves using the instructions less. You have to remember their short term memory is not as good as a younger persons, and adapt to that. The long term memory still works great. Also, tie in the internet to things in their daily life. One of the favorite things my grandma loves is the cooking channel web site where she can print the recipie of what she sees Emeril or other chefs prepare. Spend the time to find out what they enjoy outside of the computer and then help find resources that expand on their interests. Also, show them fun things like paintbrush. I know it is a simple program, but sometimes its fun to just draw shapes and colors. Since I got her on the computer, she has gotten a couple of friends on there, who previousely didn't see any use for the interent. They just needed to be pointed in the right direction, and given the knowledge of how to use the computer.

Re:Write Down Instructions

[Otik2]

I agree. From my experience, memory has been the main problem. Most of my students (admittedly, only a few) could grasp some of the basic concepts rather easily, but forgot quickly. And since I only saw them once a week, each lesson would be similar to the one before it. So try to help them remember things by writing instructions down.

it's easy

[telstar]

Just tell them each mistake they make takes one year off of their life...

Tips for Teaching Seniors About the Internet?

[db25head]

Just remember that their memory isn't what it once was. You may find that after teaching them one thing this week that they have totally forgotten it by next week when you return for the next session. Also, have patience! We all will be old ourselves someday...

Biggest problem is dexterity

[TalShiar00]

I have been a personal teach to (very rich) older people who feel it would be good to learn about computers. One problem that adults have is they are fearful that they cannot only not learn how to use one but that they will also break it somehow. You need to inform them that they can learn to use one, they will not break it, and if bay any chance anything happens you can easily fix anything. The biggest problem is dexterity. Not just moving the mouse around but also clicking. Which button, for how long, and when. I was trying to teach one guy Photoshop and he usually was pushing the wrong button or was unintentionally holding it down. I really don't have a solution to this; maybe getting the older mice whose buttons don't go down easily any stick up so they can tell that they are over the button. All the advice I could give them was just to practice and they will eventually get the hang of it.

Tips for Teaching Slashdotters About GM Pets?

[Vegan Pagan]

Today, we think we're smart for being able to learn new high tech as it appears, or better yet, inventing it and selling it, running rings around those twice or thrice our age.

How about when we turn 60, 70 or 80?

The world will be a different place by 2050. By then, our practical skills with computers and the internet will not be relevant, or they will be kept relevant by younger people who we will pay to keep us under the illusion that the year is still 2001, that the LotR movie is still in production, that Bill Gates still needs fighting, that the Chinese still don't like us. While we are paying them to keep us in the bubble, our grandchildren will be living in the real world. Our grandkids, who probably won't resemble us, will be designing the latest GM pets for Christmas (a real dragon for a Chinese parade!), will be drilling to find the aquatic life in Europa, will be effortlessly learning fluent Chinese, Hindi, Spanish, and whatever other languages are relevant by then, while we still struggle and pretend to be learning Japanese ("All your base are belong to us, gomennasai! That one still cracks me up after 50 years, haw haw!"). The point is, we must not be smug just because we are young.

To the elderly, their youth was yesterday. So to us teenagers and young adults, we will wake up tommorow morning and be in our 70s or 80s. Tommorow, we will wake up to a world with different needs. Different hopes. Different alliances, perceptions, technologies. We can fight it, or we can become it and make it happen.

So what do we do? One key is to study the fundamentals. It takes a strong mind and deep insight to study today what will be useful half a century from now. The basics of science, philosophy, language, art and law will assist. Another key is to always do what you love. When you are old, people will look up to you. You can help them not with what you just learned, but with what you learned and liked at their age. So you can only really help those who are basically repeating your life. Try teaching children, and see what's easier! To serve them best, you must use every year ahead of you effectively. Only then can you lead every age group assertively.

With fundamental knowledge and assertive hindsight, you can be alert and effective in old age. Young people will look up to you not as an ignorant obstacle, but as a wise leader.

Two words

[dswensen]

Matlock browser.

Amplify: DO NOT touch the keyboard or mouse. Ever!

[budgenator]

When I would show my wife something, by talking her through it sometimes I would see something that wasn't quite right; I then grabbed the keyboard, SU pasword etc, while see went ballistic. When I tried to explain that she didn't need to know how to do systems administration, She heard I'm the witch doctor here and only I am good enough to hold the beads and rattles!

I've found that when some sys-admin stuf needs to be done I can tell her how to screw it up just as well as I can screw it up myself. She's become confident that anything that get broke can be unbroke. Sometimes I think the best computer acessory for teaching is a laser pointer, It lets you lase the object that you want clicked much easier than talking can. The only gotcha is talking slow enough so that you can explain what to do, its amazing how much we do and can't explain because we don't think about it, we just do it. It sort of like explaining how to walk up stairs

Let them make mistakes

[starphish]

You should stress to them a couple things. First, tell them to experiment. Make this a requirement of the course. Have them discuss new things that they found out while experimenting and clicking away. Second, tell them that it's just a computer and if they mess things up, it's ok. It's JUST a computer and anything that they break is not only unimportant, it's down-right trivial. People seem to get scared about breaking things because they feel that it's bad if things get broken. Make them aware that not only could the computer get messed us, that the system WILL get messed up. It's no biggie, it's the nature of the beast.

If all of this is stressed, they will feel more at ease and less nervous about the whole ordeal.

Explain...

[suwain_2]

... the size of the Internet. My grandfather is constantly remarking on how he found "yet another" website; I don't think he quite understands that there are billions of sites.

Also, a little pet peeve... Explain the 'syntax' of a URL -- what the "http://" means, and how the domain is essentially a reverse directory -- slashdot goes under "org", and "www" goes under Slashdot.

A smaller pet peeve -- the www isn't necessary. I've taken to not typing it at all, and very rarely do I need it.

As if you don't have enough tips... A discussion of e-mail hoaxes and spam is in order; not to mention viruses. I find that seniors are usually impressed with the coolness of a complete stranger sending them a 'webpage' as an attachement... And my grandfather was convinced for the longest time that the US Postal Service was going to start taxing everyone for lost profits due to e-mail. And dealing with spam could be its own lesson.

Good luck with the class, I appreciate what you're doing.
________________________________________________

Re:Mouse usage 101

[blandahl]

With illness, etc, my wife does not have the fine motor skills to use a mouse effectively. We've found that a trackball or the little "stick" on my laptop work much better for her because she can move the cursor & it will remain in place if she has to stop a moment befor pressing the selection key. With this in mind, it might help to have several devices that they can try to see which works for them.

FERGING SICK OF THIS!!!!!

[Iron Webmaster]

I am almost a "Senior Citizen." My first FORTRAN program compiled in 1967 and set a standard for my "industry" at the time.

Enough said.

Count back from their age to the use of computers and think about it. Basic demographics says their average age is 75. That means in 1991 they were running companies at their age 65 retirement.

You would do better searching retirement homes as a source of hacking than trying to teach.

I am amazed at the kids who believe these folks are feeble and simple minded and "oh so grateful." Wake up and smell the napalm!

The image of "old folks" has not changed in my 56 years on this planet and I have to ask if there are stores for the women to but "Arsenic and Old Lace" clothing or if the TV stations have it in their costume departments. "I got my free Rascal!"

This is getting so sickening I just might refuse to grow old on general principles.

our program

[wroot]

Not too far from where I live we have a program that routinely teaches SCs (senior citizens) how to compute wisely.

Here's the approx. schedule:

Week 1: Electricity and Magnetism
Week 2: Semiconductor technology and microchips
Week 3: Computer architecture
Week 4: Assembly language
Week 5: Fortran
Week 6: C
Week 7: C++

By the time they are done with templates and polymorphism they are ready to begin learning about email and the web.

Wroot

Never Ever Buy eMachines....

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

My mom bought an eMachines box for my little brother...
1st: The Modem gave out. Emachines sent a replacement that NEVER worked. Bought another one.
2nd: Power Supply started blowing fuses quick as i could replace them. Bought a new one.
3rd: The memory gave out. There was no memory at all working, the BIOS wouldn't even give signal to the monitor.
They are real POS's.
Tim

Solid Models

[KupekKupoppo]

When I spent a summer doing the same thing, I learned that the easiest thing for the elder pupils to digest are models that somehow relate to the real world. For example, in breaking down a URL, discuss how it relates to a telephone number. They've used telephone numbers, and, while they might come away with vocabulary like "calling up Yahoo!", typically they'll have a greater understanding of what they are approaching.

You can break this down further with URLs. The example I used which worked well was a (modified) file cabinet. This relationship doesn't work as well today with more people using scripting like PHP and Perl for their sites (in that, you don't get to make the subfolder analogy very well, now).

Also, one CRITICAL thing is, when you're teaching a class, profile the students for a second. Is somebody not ready for the class? One Saturday, as I was teaching a class, there was one older gentleman who was getting VERY frustrated. I talked to him for a moment and he says, "That's all well and good, but HOW DO I TURN THIS THING ON?" I discussed with him separately after the class in a small scale about some basics, and let him know that I'd offer an introduction to PCs level course later on. He was appreciative.

I think, in general, you'll be okay as long as you stand up there without thinking "how do I teach these sheep to use the 'Net? I mean, it's so freakin' easy!" Make them treat you like a peer (which can be tough, I was teaching these courses at 15, and it's hard to get a 60 year old to imagine you in their position). Once they think of you as a friendly figure, it can only get better from there.

-k.

Re:Consistency [and REPETITION]

[Xaje]

It's not enough to throw a senior at a computer and expect that they'll learn just from holding the mouse. I learned what I know about computers by screwing up my parents' machines and then having to fix them, and I'm sure many of the Slashdotters out there can identify with that experience.

But many seniors have very specific needs when it comes to computers. They often don't have the time (or don't even care) to learn video editing or perl or anything us young'ns find interesting. For them, emailing their grandkids and "surfing" is sufficient.

Essentially there's no difference between the elderly as a specific group learning computers than any other group. Teach them not to fear the computer, show them a few cool things, and then let them loose.

In my experience (I've had several tutoring sessions with seniors), the they sit down at a computer to get something done, not to learn about disk partitions. What helps them accomplish their task du jour is repetition .

If they want to learn email, ebay, or "surfing," sit down with them for an hour, walk them through it, and have them write it all down. Then have them repeat the process. It's important to get them to do it on their own, even if they use a list as a crutch. I want to cry when I see the old folks who don't use their 1.2 GHz machines, simply because they're confused by the system.

Keep things simple for seniors, and force them to practice. Just don't "let them loose," because they'll most likely just get frustrated and shut it off.

If you know of any seniors whose powerhouse machines are collecting dust in the corner, give them my number. I could use an upgrade!

And obviously...

[antek9]

... the opposite of the above is true, of course: you won't meet the paradigmatic elderly person. Some of them will have steered aircraft or might even be among the few who ever managed to program their VCR. Sure, there are lots of old folks who are suffering from senile dementia (read: their environs are suffering from their dementia, no sorry, dumb joke, but I'm a professional caretaker, so I have to say there's a grain of salt to it, as in: being dumb makes life a lot easier, but you knew that already), anyway those are not the interested parties at courses like that, you might encounter some rather smart and open-minded folks.

I got one 89 years old patient who is seriously thinking about purchasing a PC (he never used one until now) and jacking in ASAP. And no, he's not affected by comment #1.

Just a couple of hints.

[Neck_of_the_Woods]

Slow the double click time as much as possible.

relate something in life, to the computer activity. Example would be the Little Ceasers pizza commercials to the double click of the mouse. Have them say "Pizza Pizza" as they click it twice, you would be amazed how much time this is going to save you.

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid - Don't overwhelm them. Write them out process sheets. Step 1 - power on computer, step 2 power on monitor, step 3 check that keyboard and mouse are pluged in, step 4 put in logon name, step 5 put in password.

Assume they know nothing..period and document it all to paper and hand it to them. Go though it step by step. Never move out of the basics until they ask to be moved. They are proud and will not tell you they don't understand.


Be very very understanding, and take extra care it will be difficult at times.

I wish you the best of luck.


Neck_of_the_Woods

You'd be surprized

[Glanz]

I gave similar courses here in Canada a few years ago. The age range was 55 to 80. The only problem I had was with the initial connection course. Some of them have never touched a computer before and explaining a dou-it-yourself interner configuration was out of the question. I started them with auto-installation, either from ISP software, or via IE's auto config manager. As for surfing..., I started them with news. Aggo thing to show them is how to increase the font display size on the screen. Not all need that, but a few did. Secondly. I'd go to message boarsd with uncomplicated interfaces that could reflect their individual interests. Chats are just too fast for aged neophytes. Today, several of those (35 people) are using osX without difficulty. One installed Mandrake all by himself. They were able to do that because of the high learning curve that the "communities" they visited required. In other words, all was a great success, a cure for the terrile solitude of which many older people are victims. I like to think, although I'll have no way of really knowing, that efforts of this kind save lives, or at least open a world so intellectually vast that just rolling over and dying becomes less of an option.

Teaching Old Dogs...bah.

[5arah]

I'm taking a vacation this summer from my high tech job to spend two weeks in Colorado teaching my great grandmother how to use email and how to surf.

The key point you have to get past:
DTIYBI (Don't Touch It You'll Break It) Syndrome

I plan to boot up the machine and login and pound on the keys (literally) for a good minute or so. This will get her past the "don't touch it, you'll break it" phase of things. If it doesn't work, I will proceed to take the keyboard apart (key by key) and if THAT doesn't work, I'll progress (regress?) to the CPU and proceed to take out assorted hardware.

I will change mouse sensitivity settings for her (without her watching) so that the mouse is more apt to double click when a hesitant finger is involved. I will remove all unnecessary icons from the desktop. I will show her how a browser works and I will set her up with Yahoo! or Lycos as her home page. I will have her browser set to dial up upon opening of the browser.

I will then proceed to breathe softly, close my eyes, and imagine a world without George W. Bush. I will then proceed to give an oration the likes of have never been heard by mortal ears and she will instantly GROK...

...and monkeys will fly out of my ass at 3pm.

All I have to say is: Good luck and patience is a virtue. These people have seen and done things you've never dreamed of...you're just some crazed whipper-snapper who might show them how to use something they don't particularly care for (read as: they're afraid of). Show them respect and remember that they ask the questions they ask because they really don't know why that damned arrow thing keeps moving around on their screen.

I personally love working with older people because once you have their respect, they'll listen to you. Good luck! (have fun explaining banner ads)

The Obvious!!!

[Joff_NZ]

Show them how to find pr0n!!!!!

seniors and the net

[kurt555gs]

Since they r starting out fresh, u might as well start them out on Linux , because they dont have Windoze to un-learn .... besides seniors are cheap and would appreciate a free OS, along with there 10 LB bags they sneek out of Old Country Buffet

Here's what I teach.

[xeeno]

I've done this before.
I used to teach "internet concepts" classes for the ISP that I worked at, about 6 years ago. I realized that the trick isn't to teach them about the technology, but to teach them about the concepts.
So. Here's what you do. Start off by explaining what the internet is. This includes DNS, not in a technical sense but it the "nickname for a number you don't want to remember" sense. Then explain the client-server model. Then explain email, and how an email client sends stuff to an email server. From there, you should be able to cover all of the services that a normal ISP has.
The next thing you do is talk about search engines. Then it's hands-on time, and you let them send email, read news, and search for things on the web.

Of course, this is geared towards a couple-of-hour class. But the general idea is there, you should be able to expand in as much detail as you want.

Mouse usage 101

[geoswan]

How do you teach someone to use a mouse effectively?

One thing I have observed is that many older people encounter problems when they first use a mouse because they have trouble learning how to hold the mouse. Their hands are stiffer. They lack the same kinesthetic sense as younger people, and so it take a lot longer for them to get the hang of using one.

I suggest that you can save them a very frustrating first half hour if you make sure they are holding the mouse properly right from the very beginning. Many old people hold the mouse at an angle. They don't compensate for the angle with which they are holding it, and so when they push directly away from themselves, they are confused to see the mouse cursor follow a diagonal path.

Make sure they hold the mouse perpendicular to the edge of the table for the first couple of sessions.

goal-oriented + realize physical limitations

[NaturePhotog]

Working with my 75-year-old father-in-law and other seniors, I've found that keeping things goal-oriented to start helps. While broader knowledge gives them more power later, it helps if there are some tasks they want to do that you can show them, e.g., get a stock quote, email a grandchild, read the news on CNN or bookmark the AARP web site. Some of them (and you can encourage this) may even want to write down each and every step for a refresher when they're doing it on their own. Another thing is to realize physical limitations. Seniors generally don't see as well, so show them how to set the UI font larger (and have them write down the steps) and/or use a screen magnifier utility. Related to this is how large menu items appear, and how easy it is for them to position the mouse over them. Mouse skills can be tricky to learn, too. Both holding and moving a mouse as you mentioned, but I've found double-clicking is especially difficult for some people (including non-seniors) to learn. Consider setting the double-click speed to something slower. In the list of tasks to show them, don't forget to include (and write them down! :-):

• turning the machine on and starting applications
• connecting to the Internet
• bookmarking a site they like
• exiting applications and turning the machine off

About the only background information I'd be sure to give them (besides anything they ask about, of course) is what the web is:

• a bunch of computers connected together
• sometimes the connections are broken or slow
• some of the information is from 'normal' sources like CNN, and some of it is just random peoples' opinions about random things (e.g., Slashdot :-)
• like any place, it has 'nice' neighborhoods and ones that aren't so nice, and one can be only a single click away from the other

Show them how search engines work (and don't work)

[philologist]

From my experience, most late-onset Internet addicts started off with some specific task in mind. From my experience, I would do a survey of their interests on the first day, then show them how to categorize specific things in a way that a search engine would understand.

Most beginners don't really have so much trouble with the interface (and if they do, there's the old solitaire trick, as some have mentioned); what is really problematic is the frustration felt by trying to wade through masses of information generated by a search with either too-general or ambiguous terms.

Show them the two major types of Web searches: with a search engine (like Google or AltaVista), and then with a pre-categorized listing (like Yahoo or Excite). The more structured the information is at first, the easier it is to learn.

And good luck!

damon

Mobility tricks...

[CoachS]

We have some older folks who work in our office and we've had to train them on using the systems. One limitation we hadn't anticipated is that in addition to being awkward with the mouse; some of them are arthritic and just holding a mouse for a prolonged period is painful - to say nothing of clicking.

Our solution was to mix in instruction in keyboard shortcuts. It may be faster to mouse, but remember that beginners (especially seniors) are going to be constantly trying to catch up with the computer anyhow -- they aren't likely (at least not at first) to be multitasking and needing that extra speed.

The tip that has been the most successful has been that anytime you would need to double-click, you can single-click on that item, then press [ENTER] to get the same result. Folks who would gamely try to double-click over and over without success have no difficulty clicking once then pressing [ENTER].

Beyond that we've simplified their interface as much as possible - maximized windows by default, turned off unneccessary toolbars and menus so they had fewer distractions, set the fonts to be slightly larger and the screen resolution/contrast to be as easy as possible for them to see.

We enabled sounds, but we reset the sounds to be simple and distinctive, and to only use a few of them, so that they aren't confused by the pecular chirping frog, but instead have learned that this sound is an error, that sound means they have new mail and that sound means they've successfully clicked or whatnot.

After a while the seniors get more comfortable and, for the ones who are physically able, more adept with the mouse. Initially it's best to make it as simple and friendly as possible for them and don't make them rely entirely upon the "newfangled mouse-thingy".

Best of luck!

-Coach-

Issue of contrast...

[Lethyos]

Research studies have shown that too many bright colors can detract from an elderly person's ability to see. Create an image with a pale, light red with black text over top versus a deep, dark red with black text over top. Then squint and unfocus your vision. Which is easier to see?

ElderVision.Net was tackling this...

[Lethyos]

I worked for a start-up last summer called ElderVision. Our product was, in brief, an online community of seniors accessed through an Internet appliance w/o keyboard or mouse - just touch screen, and a very simplified interface of our own design. Seniors adapted very well to it and were up and on their way to successfully using various web services and email.

Only one problem. Our success was cut short by the fact that venture capitalists didn't seem to think we were a company with a valuable service. Go figure.

If you want to know more about this, you can check out ElderVision's web site (a minimal version is still online) at http://www.eldervision.net. You can jump straight to our product description here.

If you'd like, I can put you in touch with Jeff Pepper, the man with the vision (no pun). Send email to silicon@compsci.duq.edu. Maybe he can provide you with more information.

The orthoginal problem

[IBitOBear]

My mother want's to get on the net. My mother is from a gneration that believes nearly everything they read or see on TV. (No she doesn't beleive soaps are peopled by the characters, e.g. she knows and has no trouble with the concept of fiction, but when a person presents themselves as "some kind of expert" on talk-shows and sutff, she doesn't seem to be as skeptical as she ought to be.)

My fear of her getting on the internet is that the kind of confidence tricks played on the elderly could easily be amplified against her by her, seemingly fundamental, feeling that only authorities are allowed to speak authoratatively in a public media.

Oh sure, she'll *say* she understands that she should beleive next to nothing on the net. But will she *believe* it well enough to protect herself.

Prior evidence suggests not.

So the real question for seniors on the net is: how do you prepare people who were "outraged" by the mere idea (in its day) that game-shows were sometimes fixed and who think that anything that looks and feels like a news show is relatively unbiased?

ASIDE: Do you think that "the youth of today"(tm) are less likely to "fall for" televangelisim etc because of their being brought up "relatively jaded" about how seriously to consider the words sent to them on the NET and by extension TV?

--

Re:+20 HILARIOUS!

[tqk]

Now, all we have to do is wait a couple years 'til
you start slobbering your pablum through your
yellowed, match-stick stubs of teeth, and we can
have the same laugh again at your expense.

To quote Bugs Bunny, "What an im-BEC-ile! What an
ultra-maroon!" **What a schmuck!**

Go beat up on a Windoze user. They won't notice it; they're used to abuse.

The elderly could be the Internet's salvation

[slashdot_commentator]

I was going to say that allowing them to get exposed to spam was like infecting them with AIDS.

But then it occurred to me, what if that troll who was griping about the elderly was right? Perhaps old people are cantankerous and looking for a fight.

Could you imagine the resource we'd have to harrass spammers with? People who have the free time to make those spammers' lives miserable! People who may have expendable income to contribute for computer equipment to put into retirement communities, so less fiscally able seniors could spend their time in the labs harassing spammers. After all, many of those scam artists prey on the elderly.

Oh well, perhaps I'll have to wait for the internet generation to grow grey hairs...

Forget about other users

[jneves]

People that never used computers have different problems than the usual. My experience is that if you're going to teach old people about internet and computers use the social part. The first 2 concepts should be:

• The internet is a network of people - it makes it easy to communicate cheaply, fast and ignoring geographic boundaries.
• The internet is a chaos. It's not a well organized huge encyclopedia. It depends on the users adding content to it and you're welcome to participate.

The first concept serves to attract the old people (usually, one of their biggest problem is loneliness). The second is to put aside some concepts you get from TV, movies and advertising.

For me the next steps will be dealing with the mouse (the is usually a huge problem with old people). Some simple games for 3-years old kids could help (they usually use huge surfaces for you to click). Next the keyboard for writing a simple text in a word processor. Then the concept of e-mail addressand sending an e-mail (make sure they all have some kind of mail account, even if you create them yourself). Then go for the web (accessing pages and web searches).

Just my € 0.02

Tell them it's not that hard

[frobozz3.141]

As the voice of experience, I can say that there's only one major to get past if you're going to teach old people how do use the web: Drill it into them that it's not that hard. In most cases, it's foreign to them, so they'll walk into the room expecting something completely abstract. Well, you're not teaching them TCP/IP debugging or anything, so there's nothing that they wouldn't be able to pick up just by common sense. -Nathan Taylor

First inner city kids, and now the elderly?

[blang]

Sarcasm follows:

What do they need computers for anyways? Feed them enough food, and give them their prescription drugs, and they should be happy as clams. They can hardly remember their own names, and they wear diapers. Same with the inner city kids. Learn them about computers, and they've just wasted some time. Learn them how to steal a car, and they've learnt a trade.

End sarcasm, enter troll mode:

Seriously though, don't assume that the elderly are retarded, and don't assume that inner city kids are retarded.

There's lots of elderly people out there who are active computer users. They've got their own clubs and groups and classes. You might as well have asked about fly-fishing, knitting, antiqueing, or any other hobbies popular among retirees.

What surprises me is that some young pup so obviously fresh to the issue at hand has been asked to provide educational services to the elderly. I am sure they would have been better off digging up some old folks already on the internet, and let them teach their peers.

Little info as required/pages/addresses

[SilentChris]

I taught a few classes for senior citizens as part of a senior high school project. A couple of things I learned (from myself teaching and watching other students try):

* Provide as little information as required to get the users to access the internet. You don't have to go into the notion of "servers" and "clients", and you certainly shouldn't mention "way back mainstays" like FTP and Gopher. The users just need to know there are "computers out there" that are sharing information, and some of this information is available to look at. That's it.

* Metaphors help, but you got to use the right ones. I found the best one I tried (and got most people to instantly understand web browsers) is that these are like pages in a book. You can go back, flipping through the pages of the "internet book" using the Back button, and you can go forward through the pages using the Forward button. Any time you see the hand and can click the mouse, that's like reading a new page you haven't seen before.

* Email addresses confuse the hell out of people until you explain that it's almost exactly the same as real-life addresses on envelops. The part before the @ sign is the person you want to send it to, and the part after is their "street number and city". Again, don't get too caught up in metaphors, but basic, solid ones certainly work.

Good luck.

Just teach them how to use the computer

[sketerpot]

Like anyone else, I think they should start out with simple things like opening programs, typing something, then move on to dialing on to the Internet, sending email, then finally the Internet. "There is a lot of junk out there, but if you are resolute in your searching, you will probably find what you are looking for," you can explain.

I think that they probably will. They're smart enough not to be eaten by Grues, at least. ;-)

Do not be afraid!!

[communist rabbi]

The main thing holding seniors back is what i think is fear. The're afraid to just play around with things, and learn them that way. They have over the years became more and more closed minded and afraid, making it hard for them to learn much anything new.

There is no way you can completely abolish all or nearly all fear and closemindness, because some of that comes with age. But the more you can teach them these things, it will be easier for them to learn from you and by themselves.

Windows: Keyboard not connected. Press to continue...

Introduce them to their peers

[ruszka]

There are many sites directed toward senior citizens. Perhaps bookmark the sites for them and show them how to access them. Ask them what their interests are and show them sites involving that. Yahoo has a Senior Guide pointing to many sites they may find suitable to their tastes as well.

I can't believe this.

[Anomolous Cow Herd]

You're are asking the most arrogant, technologically misinformed community on the frickin' Earth to give you advice on teaching the elderly to use computers? Choose carefully, now. There are only a few comments here that will be worth taking into consideration.

school?

[tofu-X]

Hmmm... At the college im atending, I noticed that they have a senior program already. Perhaps you should goto your local technical college, and take the senior course (assuming they have one). Then you would know how to teach them.

Let them learn

[dex-Z]

All you have to do is just let them figure it out themselves. They are perfectly capable of doing so. That way they can learn from there own mistakes instead of having some computer tech man telling them things they don't need to know.

Blaap

[thanatoswol.be]

I think it makes no sense to ask this on a site full of nerds... Most of these people don't know either how to explain something to someone who doesn't have that much experience... Just because they find everything so obvious...

Re:Blaap

[thanatoswol.be]

and I add: Blaap :)

Mouse Teaching

[WinNotK]

Last I knew, MicroCrap said that they included Solitaire, to help people learn to use thew mouse.....my 2 cents

You'll have a tought row to hoe!

[Moonza]

Look for the sparkle of understanding in their eyes, and teach just those people. There's no hope for the dull ones and you'll just be wasting your time, and theirs trying. Do not cast your pearls before swine! :-)