b) Yeah, you can crank your house up to 85F while you're away at work in the summer, and down to 55F while you're away at work in the winter. Ask yourself this question: is it cheaper to maintain a relatively constant temperature, or is it cheaper to let the house settle up and the work the hell out of the AC or furnace to get it back to a comfortable temperature?
I'm too lazy to ponder about that. I'll let the computer figure it out.
c) Horizonal zoning works. You can also achieve the same effect for free by manually adjusting the registers in rooms or areas that are normally unoccupied.
Horizontal zoning does indeed work, but if you want to shuffle the registers yourself all day long. As it says in the FAQ, the temperature balance in the house changes every second, depending on season, weather, wind, time of day, phase of moon and Philip Morris stock price.
Re:(Godfather Voice) Don't forget about the family
on
DIY HVAC
·
· Score: 1
Couple of differences...
First, you work for a *distributor*. A brief glance at the landscape shows that not only it is nearly impossible for an average home owner to get a hold of wholesale prices, but, to add insult to an injury, HVAC contractors become quite jealous and may drop you like hot potato if they find something "not installed by licensed HVAC contractor" in your house.
Second, you'd be surprised how low are the prices on used computers...
As for Chronotherm - well, it's just a thermostat, right? No zoning included, right?
Re:That project doesn't conform to the industry sp
on
DIY HVAC
·
· Score: 1
See, the thing is that the abstraction layers are not where you think they are. It's not the register itself that is a device... It's a long story - take a look at the site, *then* let's talk.
As for KISS, totally agree. As for optical sensor - now, *that* is already an overcomplication. There are other feedback mechanisms - indirect through temperature change, etc.
Re:(Godfather Voice) Don't forget about the family
on
DIY HVAC
·
· Score: 1
Well, I'm not sure this is a viable option. To be absolutely honest, I've never tried this, and if someone's got the time to show me how (or even better, to make the native compile an option in the project), I'd be ecstatic;)
However, the rewrite is not "just to change the language". Different languages have different paradigms and idioms, and some things are possible to say in C++ that you have no way of expressing in Java, and the other way around (like, try calling virtual methods in C++ constructor).
Sorry, dude. I was busy making the system work, and neglected the site.
By the way, if I knew what you wanted, I'd be more than happy to give it to you - all you have to do is *ask*.
Re:Two concerns: Resale and housing code
on
DIY HVAC
·
· Score: 1
Yes, there *is* a usability problem. Mostly because I am (stand corrected, *was*) happy with the way it worked.
What kills it is the lack of feedback. People see this stuff, start reading the docs on the site, and by the page ten they fall asleep or get scared and go away. And I never find out *what* scared them away.
Sure the site needs redesign, as well as GUI, but damn it, where do I get *time*???
Now, a touchscreen was *definitely* thought of:) Take a look at the code, you'll like it:)
Re:Programmable Thermostat?
on
DIY HVAC
·
· Score: 1
Yes, you are.
HVAC *is* a rocket science. Read the FAQs on the site to find out *why*.
Re:Looking in all the wrong places
on
DIY HVAC
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Beg to differ - I did look into those places, all three of them.
SmartHome - X10? A device with unreliable delivery? One network failure, and Boom-Puff up goes in smoke your expensive equipment. Thank you.
And the others - well, they may have not existed at the time the project was started - that was about three years ago.
As for your warning - yes, that's right. If you read the articles on the site, you'll find that this exact warning is written in bold face all over. Too bad. Go read the history of the project, and you'll see how they treated me back then:)
Re:That project doesn't conform to the industry sp
on
DIY HVAC
·
· Score: 1
I may agree about UPnP - I've just started thinking about it last night. What other alternatives would you suggest? Jini is DOA, and it's too heavy anyway, and there's nothing else out there, really. However, experience shows that the damned *difficulty of configuration* is the major showstopper for this project.
The primary reason for this project was *not* the cost, but comfort. Read the FAQ:
http://diy-zoning.sourceforge.net/docs/FAQ.html# ob jective
See, in Arizona, it gets really hot sometimes...
Re:(Godfather Voice) Don't forget about the family
on
DIY HVAC
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Time, time, time. DIY Zoning is modular, and in the very beginning I hoped that TINI (that runs native Java) will be able to host one of the modules. Alas, never had time nor chance to get my hands on it. Still, thinking about rewriting the project in C++, after all the architectural things are done.
Re:(Godfather Voice) Don't forget about the family
on
DIY HVAC
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I'm not a professor, for better or worse:) That's a different guy you're thinking about.
Well, alot of companies seem to have gotten no hangover as a result of discarding their "currently invested capital and starting from scratch" when they moved from U.S. to Indian based IT talent.
The difference that you are forgetting about is that we're just coming to an end of the first wave of outsourcing. Let me rehash briefly things that I have *not* seen (and I was watching all this outsourcing hoopla unroll, having been very close to the heart of things):
concerns about quality (they were overridden by cost savings concerns);
concerns about intellectual property theft (anybody remembers Ishoni Networks? Thought so...);
(related) concerns about inability to bring the unscrupulous partners to justice - hell, they can't do that even if the company is in the US! (ask me how I know...)
concerns about cultural differences - they're different for different nationalities, but they all have their impact. Nobody paid attention to this back then, because the decisions were being made by people on the top who may have never as much as spoken with an alien;
concerns about xenophobia - foreigners in US had to live with the fact they were ridiculed, 'cause they came here by their own volition. However, not so if they are offended in their native countries, and some of the cultures are very particular about having their grudge revenged (Roger Zelazny: "revenge is a dish that is best served cold");
This is just for starters...
As long as the labor cost difference is sufficient to counter the "exit cost" of throwing away current capital and yield a net increase ROI, there will be no hangover.
I don't think you'd find too many companies that would advertise the screwups. Like I was saying, the cost to exit for some may have been so high that the only case when it comes out will be when the company goes down or the results are otherwise publicly visible (as in: Dell, HP call center stories, or that infamous case with a threat to publish confidential information). Therefore, they will pretend that everything is just fine until the very last moment, by which time it is way too late.
From the tone of your post, I infer that you are looking forward to a day of reckoning for these companies that outsource U.S. jobs. My advice: don't hold your breath.
Now, that would be foolish... I'll turn blue and die before that happens. As someone put it, "market can stay insane longer than a person can stay solvent".
And a follow-up question: does anyone think that US companies will hesitate to leave their outsourcing partners high and dry as soon as they (again) find a cheaper alternative?
Sure they won't...
But they might find themselves sadly out of luck because of high "cost to exit". See, the capital involved in IT is the knowledge, therefore, the people. Companies are irrelevant. Trying to change the outsourcing provider means discarding currently invested capital and starting from scratch.
The reason this is not yet evident is because we're not through the first wave of excitement over outsourcing, and not too many companies have tried to switch over to "cheaper" outsourcing provider. But when the realization comes, the hangover will be bitter.
You'd be surprised, but no, they don't. I haven't seen a single house in US that has this thing, called "air return". Granted, my experience was limited to MidWest and SouthWest - people from East say it's there.
Usually, the function of the air return is served by the doors that are cut to leave about an inch opening at the bottom.
Re:That's not gonna work.
on
Computer Room Hot?
·
· Score: 2, Informative
This is called an economizer... Commercial HVAC uses it more or less, but they claim it's impractical for the residential installations.
I'm slowly approaching this, see http://diy-zoning.sourceforge.net/
Re:Damn, I should have known
on
Am I Hot or Not
·
· Score: 1
Yes.
There's a lot of work to be done, primarily the GUI (I'm a middleware guy, and my GUIs usually suck), and of course, the pilot testing. So far, it's been working in my home for about a year, but you know, every setup is different.
Just come and join the list.
Re:why is this new technology
on
Am I Hot or Not
·
· Score: 1
Because it is more complicated than it seems. Just one simple fact: if you close the dampers too much, the inside coil will freeze. Why? Now, the answer is not obvious...
Re:It'll be hotter when it's done I suspect...
on
Am I Hot or Not
·
· Score: 1
;)
My vents *are* computer controlled, and they're variable;) Moreover, the A/C unit itself can be controlled.
Oh well, if anybody's going to read this submission made two days late when noone bothers anymore, here's a beautiful quotation that sheds some light on the difference between US and Germany:
From: Timberwoof
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Splitting lanes in the UK, it's different over there!
Organization: Infernosoft
References:
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 18:11:27 -0700
Message-ID:
In article , xxvaf@valinor.barrnet.net
(Vince Fuller) wrote:
> And, of course, on the autobahn, everybody (and I mean everybody - I saw
> no exceptions to the rule) immediately pulls to the right lane if you
> overtake them in the left - apparently there are very strong sanctions
> if you don't yield to faster traffic.
The US and Germany have two fundamentaly different approaches to
driving...
In Germany, you have the right (in some places) to go as fast as
conditions and your car will allow. In the US you have the right to
drive in whatever lane you want.
In Germany, you pass on the left and return immediately to the rightmost
available lane. In the US, you pass anywhere you want.
In Germany, people will get out of your way to let you onto the
Autobahn. In the US, it's every citizen's solemn duty to prevent others
from using the Interstate.
In Germany, you flash your lights to indicate that you're a fast
Mercedes and slow little Opes should wait a moment. In the US you flash
your lights if you want to get shot.
In Germany you take driver training courses for about a year in all
kinds of weather conditions, and you get your license after a thorough
driving test. In the US, you can renew your license in any kind of
weather.
In Germany, driving is a viable alternative means of transportation to
the mostly excellent public trains and buses. In most places in the US,
there is no viable alternative to owning your own vehicle.
In Germany they build the Autobahn around towns and villages. In the US,
the build the Interstate anywhere they want, and towns spring up around
them.
In Germany, people tend to live pretty close to their local grocery
stores, so a shopping trip means you can have a nice walk, too. In the
US, frequently the only way to get to the Safeway is by driving there.
In Germany they build Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Audi, and VW. In the US
they build Pontiac, Chevrolet, and Ford.
> If only the training requirements for getting a license here were as
> strict as they are over there, life would be great.
Good God, do you realize what that would mean for the economy? Maybe 70%
fewer drivers buying gasoline and cars. Good God, do you realize what
that would mean for the traffic conditions?:-)
--
Timberwoof: BMW R1100GS rider, ice hockey goalie, Macintosh user:
Not your *ordinary* noncomformist.
woofyinfernosoftcom; http://www.infernosoft.com
Trying to not sound like a big super hero but I've been doing programming since I was 10
and I'm 23 now with 2 years of work experience and a bachelors degree. I can program
extremely well in about 7 languages (perl/java/c/visual basic/asp/C++) as well as have
experience setting up networks/servers and I'm a big UNIX head, little bit of everything.
I'm currently getting paid 45,000 a year, I live near a huge city in the US and I feel like I'm
getting fucked in the ass whenever I read stories like this. Where the hell am I going
wrong?!
Your wrongdoing is in the way you try to sell yourself. First of all, let me tell you, if you're *really* getting 45K, you *are* being fscked in the ass, 'cause with all those credentials you can easily double it (triple it, if you're close to the Silicon Valley, but that doesn't pay off 'cause the place is overcrowded and the housing is overpriced).
Then, stop selling yourself as a *programmer*, and start selling yourself as at least technical lead, at most technical architect. I doubt you would be able to get the architect position without being at the level of a lead first, but this is the way to go if you want to avoid the managerial stuff.
Then, remember one thing: you're being recruited based on a) the position you're looking for b) data in your resume. Let me emphasise: in that order. If you're looking for a programmer position, no way in hell they're gonna say "Man! You're so great! Let us offer you a higher position with a higher salary". No, instead they will politely say "We're sorry, but you're overqualified for the position you're applying for. Good luck in your job search".
Why are all these people waiting to get in if the US sucks so much?
Simple. Because there are places that suck much worse. Like the one without a toilet paper and a soap in the public restrooms, that occupies 1/6 of the dry land.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm too lazy to ponder about that. I'll let the computer figure it out.
Horizontal zoning does indeed work, but if you want to shuffle the registers yourself all day long. As it says in the FAQ, the temperature balance in the house changes every second, depending on season, weather, wind, time of day, phase of moon and Philip Morris stock price.
Couple of differences...
First, you work for a *distributor*. A brief glance at the landscape shows that not only it is nearly impossible for an average home owner to get a hold of wholesale prices, but, to add insult to an injury, HVAC contractors become quite jealous and may drop you like hot potato if they find something "not installed by licensed HVAC contractor" in your house.
Second, you'd be surprised how low are the prices on used computers...
As for Chronotherm - well, it's just a thermostat, right? No zoning included, right?
See, the thing is that the abstraction layers are not where you think they are. It's not the register itself that is a device... It's a long story - take a look at the site, *then* let's talk.
As for KISS, totally agree. As for optical sensor - now, *that* is already an overcomplication. There are other feedback mechanisms - indirect through temperature change, etc.
Well, I'm not sure this is a viable option. To be absolutely honest, I've never tried this, and if someone's got the time to show me how (or even better, to make the native compile an option in the project), I'd be ecstatic ;)
However, the rewrite is not "just to change the language". Different languages have different paradigms and idioms, and some things are possible to say in C++ that you have no way of expressing in Java, and the other way around (like, try calling virtual methods in C++ constructor).
Here: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=52647
Yes, there *is* a usability problem. Mostly because I am (stand corrected, *was*) happy with the way it worked.
:) Take a look at the code, you'll like it :)
What kills it is the lack of feedback. People see this stuff, start reading the docs on the site, and by the page ten they fall asleep or get scared and go away. And I never find out *what* scared them away.
Sure the site needs redesign, as well as GUI, but damn it, where do I get *time*???
Now, a touchscreen was *definitely* thought of
Yes, you are.
HVAC *is* a rocket science. Read the FAQs on the site to find out *why*.
Beg to differ - I did look into those places, all three of them.
:)
SmartHome - X10? A device with unreliable delivery? One network failure, and Boom-Puff up goes in smoke your expensive equipment. Thank you.
And the others - well, they may have not existed at the time the project was started - that was about three years ago.
As for your warning - yes, that's right. If you read the articles on the site, you'll find that this exact warning is written in bold face all over. Too bad. Go read the history of the project, and you'll see how they treated me back then
I may agree about UPnP - I've just started thinking about it last night. What other alternatives would you suggest? Jini is DOA, and it's too heavy anyway, and there's nothing else out there, really. However, experience shows that the damned *difficulty of configuration* is the major showstopper for this project.
Any insights would be much welcome.
The primary reason for this project was *not* the cost, but comfort. Read the FAQ:
# ob jective
http://diy-zoning.sourceforge.net/docs/FAQ.html
See, in Arizona, it gets really hot sometimes...
Time, time, time. DIY Zoning is modular, and in the very beginning I hoped that TINI (that runs native Java) will be able to host one of the modules. Alas, never had time nor chance to get my hands on it. Still, thinking about rewriting the project in C++, after all the architectural things are done.
I'm not a professor, for better or worse :) That's a different guy you're thinking about.
- concerns about quality (they were overridden by cost savings concerns);
- concerns about intellectual property theft (anybody remembers Ishoni Networks? Thought so...);
- (related) concerns about inability to bring the unscrupulous partners to justice - hell, they can't do that even if the company is in the US! (ask me how I know...)
- concerns about cultural differences - they're different for different nationalities, but they all have their impact. Nobody paid attention to this back then, because the decisions were being made by people on the top who may have never as much as spoken with an alien;
- concerns about xenophobia - foreigners in US had to live with the fact they were ridiculed, 'cause they came here by their own volition. However, not so if they are offended in their native countries, and some of the cultures are very particular about having their grudge revenged (Roger Zelazny: "revenge is a dish that is best served cold");
This is just for starters... I don't think you'd find too many companies that would advertise the screwups. Like I was saying, the cost to exit for some may have been so high that the only case when it comes out will be when the company goes down or the results are otherwise publicly visible (as in: Dell, HP call center stories, or that infamous case with a threat to publish confidential information). Therefore, they will pretend that everything is just fine until the very last moment, by which time it is way too late. Now, that would be foolish... I'll turn blue and die before that happens. As someone put it, "market can stay insane longer than a person can stay solvent".Sure they won't...
But they might find themselves sadly out of luck because of high "cost to exit". See, the capital involved in IT is the knowledge, therefore, the people. Companies are irrelevant. Trying to change the outsourcing provider means discarding currently invested capital and starting from scratch.
The reason this is not yet evident is because we're not through the first wave of excitement over outsourcing, and not too many companies have tried to switch over to "cheaper" outsourcing provider. But when the realization comes, the hangover will be bitter.
You'd be surprised, but no, they don't. I haven't seen a single house in US that has this thing, called "air return". Granted, my experience was limited to MidWest and SouthWest - people from East say it's there.
Usually, the function of the air return is served by the doors that are cut to leave about an inch opening at the bottom.
This is called an economizer... Commercial HVAC uses it more or less, but they claim it's impractical for the residential installations.
I'm slowly approaching this, see http://diy-zoning.sourceforge.net/
Yes.
There's a lot of work to be done, primarily the GUI (I'm a middleware guy, and my GUIs usually suck), and of course, the pilot testing. So far, it's been working in my home for about a year, but you know, every setup is different.
Just come and join the list.
Because it is more complicated than it seems. Just one simple fact: if you close the dampers too much, the inside coil will freeze. Why? Now, the answer is not obvious...
;)
;) Moreover, the A/C unit itself can be controlled.
My vents *are* computer controlled, and they're variable
See my other post for the URL.
that I was not the only one doing something like this. Oh well, too late, but here's the link:
DIY Zoning
Oh well, if anybody's going to read this submission made two days late when noone bothers anymore, here's a beautiful quotation that sheds some light on the difference between US and Germany:
:-)
From: Timberwoof
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Splitting lanes in the UK, it's different over there!
Organization: Infernosoft
References:
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 18:11:27 -0700
Message-ID:
In article , xxvaf@valinor.barrnet.net
(Vince Fuller) wrote:
> And, of course, on the autobahn, everybody (and I mean everybody - I saw
> no exceptions to the rule) immediately pulls to the right lane if you
> overtake them in the left - apparently there are very strong sanctions
> if you don't yield to faster traffic.
The US and Germany have two fundamentaly different approaches to
driving...
In Germany, you have the right (in some places) to go as fast as
conditions and your car will allow. In the US you have the right to
drive in whatever lane you want.
In Germany, you pass on the left and return immediately to the rightmost
available lane. In the US, you pass anywhere you want.
In Germany, people will get out of your way to let you onto the
Autobahn. In the US, it's every citizen's solemn duty to prevent others
from using the Interstate.
In Germany, you flash your lights to indicate that you're a fast
Mercedes and slow little Opes should wait a moment. In the US you flash
your lights if you want to get shot.
In Germany you take driver training courses for about a year in all
kinds of weather conditions, and you get your license after a thorough
driving test. In the US, you can renew your license in any kind of
weather.
In Germany, driving is a viable alternative means of transportation to
the mostly excellent public trains and buses. In most places in the US,
there is no viable alternative to owning your own vehicle.
In Germany they build the Autobahn around towns and villages. In the US,
the build the Interstate anywhere they want, and towns spring up around
them.
In Germany, people tend to live pretty close to their local grocery
stores, so a shopping trip means you can have a nice walk, too. In the
US, frequently the only way to get to the Safeway is by driving there.
In Germany they build Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Audi, and VW. In the US
they build Pontiac, Chevrolet, and Ford.
> If only the training requirements for getting a license here were as
> strict as they are over there, life would be great.
Good God, do you realize what that would mean for the economy? Maybe 70%
fewer drivers buying gasoline and cars. Good God, do you realize what
that would mean for the traffic conditions?
--
Timberwoof: BMW R1100GS rider, ice hockey goalie, Macintosh user:
Not your *ordinary* noncomformist.
woofyinfernosoftcom; http://www.infernosoft.com
Then, stop selling yourself as a *programmer*, and start selling yourself as at least technical lead, at most technical architect. I doubt you would be able to get the architect position without being at the level of a lead first, but this is the way to go if you want to avoid the managerial stuff.
Then, remember one thing: you're being recruited based on a) the position you're looking for b) data in your resume. Let me emphasise: in that order. If you're looking for a programmer position, no way in hell they're gonna say "Man! You're so great! Let us offer you a higher position with a higher salary". No, instead they will politely say "We're sorry, but you're overqualified for the position you're applying for. Good luck in your job search".
This is the way it works in US.
Oh! I understand. You must be a Native American, right?
And you cannot stay in US more than 6 years unless you're a GC holder. So go figure.