I'm confused. Are you saying that the compiler converts recursion into iterative machine code? When I compile recursive code, my compiler doesn't know how to "unroll" that particular type of "loop". Stepping through, piece by piece, in machine is exactly the same as the source -- except the stack frames are explicitly set up, whereas in the source, they're implicitly declared via scoping rules.
I suppose you could make the argument that certain RISC architectures don't set up a stack frame so much as walk the register set through memory, but the whole thing is still recursive.
Gödel applies to all* formal systems. Thus, the same questions could be raised against any mathematical proof. Although I'm initially skeptical about what Slashdot claims that NICTA claims to have done, I'll hold off judgement until I've read more (a shame I'm not as close to Big Sky as I once was -- this might be a cool presentation to attend).
*All non-trivial systems anyway -- which includes any system powerful enough to prove anything meaningful.
No developer should have to go through putting together an application only to have it rejected arbitrarily.
I agree. It's high time legislation was passed that no longer forces developers to target platforms except for those that they choose.
Well I won't be buying an iPhone no matter how "cool" they look or what nifty features they have let alone gambling my time and effort developing for one in the hope that some junior Apple cronie rubber stamps it.
I submitted your comments to Steve Jobs. Unfortunately, they haven't made it through the approval process as of yet. I'll keep you posted.
While I realize their objectives (vs realizing their objectives - giggle) are going to be Cocoa centered, and while I'm mildly fanboyish toward Cocoa, I'd still like to be able to roll Java apps in XCode on occasion. It's not as if their lagging support of Java is going to keep from rolling Java apps for other platforms. It just makes it more of a hassle for me.
I'd prefer Apple worked a bit harder to keep me happily working within their platform, rather than pushing me out of the platform in order to accomplish tasks that aren't Apple-centric. Not that Java is a deal killer for me at the moment, but if they let that type of thinking take root too deeply, I think they're setting themselves up to be another Microsoft culture.
I don't disagree with any of your speculations. The thing is, as I understand things, Sun would do the work for Apple if Apple would let them. Not being privy to internal details, it's easy to imagine that it's a control issue or even something nefarious. It could be something as simple as not being able to get Sun to support their Aqua look. Ultimately, I really don't know, but it doesn't make it any less annoying.
I'll have to drag out my OS X Server 1.x and give it a whirl. I haven't played with it in ages and don't really recall the full dev cycle on that. My current XCode doesn't have WO installed (but I've got Ada, go figure), so I can't even create a simple project. I don't recall having the ability to create anything non-Java on the server side for a quite a while though. However, until I have something concrete in front of me, I'm forced to agree with you.:)
As to "Java is dead", well - I've been of that opinion in the overall scheme of things for a while. I don't know if you meant that only regarding Apple's attitude toward it, but I think it extends beyond just them. But then I also think the "open source the world!" movement has accomplished so many of its goals at this point that it's becoming a solution desperately searching for more problems. Needless to say (and yet I do), that doesn't make me terribly popular 'round these here parts.
Not having any idea what anything in that post means I presume it is all part of a delicious sandwich (Sproutcore, BitBurger...)... sounds yummy...
Dooooddd... there's like this totally new thing called Bing! that lets you look stuff like that up! (I hear some pikers down in Cali called googol or something stupid like that are trying to horn in on the action though).
Not like your conjecture is without merit. I mean, what can explain their slowness in Java porting? I wish I knew. It's a real annoyance.
To be mildly fair, us mere mortals aren't getting WebObjects updates anymore, but they don't seem to be slowing down their usage of it at iTunes & the Apple store and dev sites. Perhaps they're going to migrate more things to SproutCore once BitBurger et al gets released. Although that doesn't provide them with a back-end, and I'm not utterly convinced that RoR is up to the demand, inclusion in OS X notwithstanding. If only more Erlang/Mnesia would roll out.
How else would we have been informed as to the past activities of some random persona? With any luck, a hotly contested Wikipedia entry will be forthcoming. Until then we'll just have to be satisfied with spurious journal entries.
Clinton Administration NIH Guidelines for Embryonic Stem Cell Funding
As printed in the Federal Register, August 25, 2000 ("National Institutes of Health Guidelines for Research Using Human Pluripotent Stem Cells," 65 Fed. Reg. 51,975, Aug. 25, 2000)
NIH funds may be used to derive human pluripotent stem cells from fetal tissue. NIH funds may not be used to derive human pluripotent stem cells from human embryos. These Guidelines also designate certain areas of human pluripotent stem cell research as ineligible for NIH funding.
-------- Give it a read - there's definitely more in there than I quoted, and the purpose of my quotation wasn't to condense the entire document (for example, ethical guidelines concerning deriving new lines from fertility clinic frozen samples is covered in detail). In other words, don't rush off repeating this as if it's the entire truth. My only point in quoting this portion is that the Clinton administration put specific limits on federal funding for ESC research. And yet, there wasn't all of the indignant fuss raised about it like there was when the Bush administration put specific limits on federal funding for ESC research. I can't help but suspect that the opposition was a politically created diversion. And, based upon the article that started this thread, I'd say an astoundingly successful diversion.
So, Clinton administration restricts ESC research with federal funding. No story. Bush administration restricts ESC research with federal funding. End of American science. Obama administration removes restrictions on ESC research with federal funding. Science story on slashdot.
I really need to put a blocking rule in my FW for slashdot. It's like watching a train wreck. My mind keeps screaming Run! Run! and I just stay rooted in place.
why do the yanks hate the french so much? They inspired your revolution and gave you a statue, and you've been spitting on them ever since.
Wow. You are kidding, right? I mean, please tell me that's sarcasm. If not (and for other people who are so ignorant they might actually think your statement is informative, rather than sarcastic)...
And then, the Statue of Liberty came 110 years later. So, in your alternate reality, have we been spitting on them since 1775/1776 (when you think they inspired our war), or since 1886, when they gave us the statue?
The Airport Extreme & Time Capsule 1TB were already there. As far as the iMac goes, they mostly lowered their prices and replaced the motherboard with something that handles faster RAM (1066MHz DDR3 vs 800 MHz DDR2) and more RAM (8GB max vs 4GB max before), and reworked the video options.
In simple terms, if you bought a 24" iMac prior to store closure and configured it with all of the upgrades, when the store reopened you'd find that configuration as the default 3.06GHz machine with faster RAM and different video. Except it would be $400 (US) cheaper.
Perhaps this is a sign that Redmond is finally starting to focus on being really good at a focused area instead of generally mediocre (or worse) at a huge number of things. It would be a welcome change. Now if we could just convince them that it's cool to port stuff to something non-Windows after a fashion. I don't have any issues with them releasing early versions of things for Windows, but refusing to open themselves up to a larger market is a bummer. I suppose they could make Windows enjoyable to use - in which case I wouldn't mind so much.
People who claim to "view the AGW hypothesis with skepticism" never, as a generally rule, are actual skeptics. Scientists are skeptics. Global warming "deniers" follow almost exactly the approach and tactics of Intelligent Design proponents.
People who resort to derogatory labels such as "deniers" are, as a general rule, faith-based subjectivists. They're very good, however, at making subjective statements as if they were actual facts. Although, extra points added for discrediting everyone that falls outside of a group that you get to define.
See how easy that is? I'm guessing the main difference between our comments is that I'm being facetious.
However, a crap summary (as is usual at slashdot, regardless of the topic) being believed by people who are too lazy to RTFA (as is usual at slashdot, regardless of the topic) turns into a condemnation of people believing the summary and then lumping them in with a bunch of whack jobs. Well, okay - I guess that's usual at slashdot too.
In my view, the entire tagged content could have easily been omitted, resulting in an informative response rather than a flamebait response. Not that the rest of it wasn't a bit confrontational, but I can easily understand being irritated about having to do a slashdot editor's job for them. I just think it would be more productive to lay out the facts and, if you really feel the need to vent, to vent on the editor and the submitter.
Frankly, if/. wasn't so terribly fucking broken, I would never have seen this story anyway. Unfortunately, I'm apparently locked into the index2.pl beta test in which editor filtering no longer works. Although we seem to be getting to the point where all of the editors are indistinguishable from kdawson. And yes, I know, I personally need to be remembering to check the stories before clicking on them so as to do the filtering myself.
I see. So a typical slashdot story ('typical' meaning filled with hyperbole, false information, FUD, and generally intended to get people's panties in a bunch in order to generate hits) is evidence of a sweeping religious campaign. Gosh. You're so open minded. It's a shame that attitudes like yours help perpetuate this stupidity.
Why is it that people that view the AGW hypothesis with skepticism often get tossed in with the Young Earthers, ID crowd, and other religious zealots? I can understand the rhetoric of "deniers" and similar crap coming from people such as Al Gore whose credibility and image are deeply tied into this, thus giving them a very emotionally based motivation for squelching all opposition. But why is it that people who appear to be approaching things from a logical and objective standpoint still have to engage in smear tactics? It does nothing but make them look like subjective bigots themselves. At least that's the impression I'm always left with.
Logic (4864) : Just to head off other people talking out of their ass...
Wait. You can't possibly be new here! Okay, enough of that.
It's also unfortunate that many of the standards are so inflexible (USB, e.g.) as to preclude beneficial functionality on the consumer's end. For example, Apple used a modified USB on the original iMac to allow you to power the computer on (and sleep it) from the keyboard. Unfortunately, because it wasn't per spec (I'm assuming) they eventually dropped it. Another example is the ADC connector which carried digital & analog video, monitor power, USB, & soft power switch signals, via a single cable. Unfortunately, it required video vendor buy-in (making the cards more expensive) and never gained any non-Apple support (that, and the fact that the monitor power was limited). Plus it required an obnoxiously expensive adapter cable to pull out the DVI & RGB for non-Apple monitor use. But from a consumer convenience standpoint, it was a big improvement over the DVI system.
Granted, I'm unaware of any efforts by Apple to encourage adoption of either of these by other companies, unlike Firewire, for example.
Frequently, as the GP said, Apple uses standards when they are suitable. I've often seen NuBus referred to as a "proprietary bus". You know, good ol' proprietary IEEE-1196. That icky MIT bus that prevented the user the joy of installing IRQ jumpers. And they bailed on ADB when something better came along - USB. This before there was OS support for it in the Windows/Linux world. Alas, it's far more fun to continue the "proprietary" meme ad nauseam. Yeah - I know - I must be new here.
Slashdot Mirror
Released August 12th...
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3776
I'm confused. Are you saying that the compiler converts recursion into iterative machine code? When I compile recursive code, my compiler doesn't know how to "unroll" that particular type of "loop". Stepping through, piece by piece, in machine is exactly the same as the source -- except the stack frames are explicitly set up, whereas in the source, they're implicitly declared via scoping rules.
I suppose you could make the argument that certain RISC architectures don't set up a stack frame so much as walk the register set through memory, but the whole thing is still recursive.
Gödel applies to all* formal systems. Thus, the same questions could be raised against any mathematical proof. Although I'm initially skeptical about what Slashdot claims that NICTA claims to have done, I'll hold off judgement until I've read more (a shame I'm not as close to Big Sky as I once was -- this might be a cool presentation to attend).
*All non-trivial systems anyway -- which includes any system powerful enough to prove anything meaningful.
ZOMG! I've got the same hack on Linux! (dogs and cats... they're actually living together...)
The Apple fans will always blindly support and back the Apple position. The Apple haters will always blindly attack the Apple position.
There, FTFY. You had a minor consistency error.
I agree. It's high time legislation was passed that no longer forces developers to target platforms except for those that they choose.
I submitted your comments to Steve Jobs. Unfortunately, they haven't made it through the approval process as of yet. I'll keep you posted.
While I realize their objectives (vs realizing their objectives - giggle) are going to be Cocoa centered, and while I'm mildly fanboyish toward Cocoa, I'd still like to be able to roll Java apps in XCode on occasion. It's not as if their lagging support of Java is going to keep from rolling Java apps for other platforms. It just makes it more of a hassle for me.
I'd prefer Apple worked a bit harder to keep me happily working within their platform, rather than pushing me out of the platform in order to accomplish tasks that aren't Apple-centric. Not that Java is a deal killer for me at the moment, but if they let that type of thinking take root too deeply, I think they're setting themselves up to be another Microsoft culture.
I don't disagree with any of your speculations. The thing is, as I understand things, Sun would do the work for Apple if Apple would let them. Not being privy to internal details, it's easy to imagine that it's a control issue or even something nefarious. It could be something as simple as not being able to get Sun to support their Aqua look. Ultimately, I really don't know, but it doesn't make it any less annoying.
I'll have to drag out my OS X Server 1.x and give it a whirl. I haven't played with it in ages and don't really recall the full dev cycle on that. My current XCode doesn't have WO installed (but I've got Ada, go figure), so I can't even create a simple project. I don't recall having the ability to create anything non-Java on the server side for a quite a while though. However, until I have something concrete in front of me, I'm forced to agree with you. :)
As to "Java is dead", well - I've been of that opinion in the overall scheme of things for a while. I don't know if you meant that only regarding Apple's attitude toward it, but I think it extends beyond just them. But then I also think the "open source the world!" movement has accomplished so many of its goals at this point that it's becoming a solution desperately searching for more problems. Needless to say (and yet I do), that doesn't make me terribly popular 'round these here parts.
Dooooddd... there's like this totally new thing called Bing! that lets you look stuff like that up! (I hear some pikers down in Cali called googol or something stupid like that are trying to horn in on the action though).
Yeah. Those losers should stop running their iTunes store with Java. Lame Java haters!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects No, I didn't just edit it, but I suppose it's ripe for vandalism now.
Not like your conjecture is without merit. I mean, what can explain their slowness in Java porting? I wish I knew. It's a real annoyance.
To be mildly fair, us mere mortals aren't getting WebObjects updates anymore, but they don't seem to be slowing down their usage of it at iTunes & the Apple store and dev sites. Perhaps they're going to migrate more things to SproutCore once BitBurger et al gets released. Although that doesn't provide them with a back-end, and I'm not utterly convinced that RoR is up to the demand, inclusion in OS X notwithstanding. If only more Erlang/Mnesia would roll out.
You probably remember when Old 16 was just 16. ;)
How else would we have been informed as to the past activities of some random persona? With any luck, a hotly contested Wikipedia entry will be forthcoming. Until then we'll just have to be satisfied with spurious journal entries.
http://www.bioethics.gov/reports/stemcell/appendix_d.html
Clinton Administration NIH Guidelines for Embryonic Stem Cell Funding
As printed in the Federal Register, August 25, 2000 ("National Institutes of Health Guidelines for Research Using Human Pluripotent Stem Cells," 65 Fed. Reg. 51,975, Aug. 25, 2000)
NIH funds may be used to derive human pluripotent stem cells from fetal tissue. NIH funds may not be used to derive human pluripotent stem cells from human embryos. These Guidelines also designate certain areas of human pluripotent stem cell research as ineligible for NIH funding.
--------
Give it a read - there's definitely more in there than I quoted, and the purpose of my quotation wasn't to condense the entire document (for example, ethical guidelines concerning deriving new lines from fertility clinic frozen samples is covered in detail). In other words, don't rush off repeating this as if it's the entire truth. My only point in quoting this portion is that the Clinton administration put specific limits on federal funding for ESC research. And yet, there wasn't all of the indignant fuss raised about it like there was when the Bush administration put specific limits on federal funding for ESC research. I can't help but suspect that the opposition was a politically created diversion. And, based upon the article that started this thread, I'd say an astoundingly successful diversion.
So, Clinton administration restricts ESC research with federal funding. No story. Bush administration restricts ESC research with federal funding. End of American science. Obama administration removes restrictions on ESC research with federal funding. Science story on slashdot.
I really need to put a blocking rule in my FW for slashdot. It's like watching a train wreck. My mind keeps screaming Run! Run! and I just stay rooted in place.
Wow. You are kidding, right? I mean, please tell me that's sarcasm. If not (and for other people who are so ignorant they might actually think your statement is informative, rather than sarcastic)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War
This is a pretty key sentence... "The example of the American Revolution was one of the many contributing factors to the French Revolution."
And then, the Statue of Liberty came 110 years later. So, in your alternate reality, have we been spitting on them since 1775/1776 (when you think they inspired our war), or since 1886, when they gave us the statue?
The Airport Extreme & Time Capsule 1TB were already there. As far as the iMac goes, they mostly lowered their prices and replaced the motherboard with something that handles faster RAM (1066MHz DDR3 vs 800 MHz DDR2) and more RAM (8GB max vs 4GB max before), and reworked the video options.
In simple terms, if you bought a 24" iMac prior to store closure and configured it with all of the upgrades, when the store reopened you'd find that configuration as the default 3.06GHz machine with faster RAM and different video. Except it would be $400 (US) cheaper.
Perhaps this is a sign that Redmond is finally starting to focus on being really good at a focused area instead of generally mediocre (or worse) at a huge number of things. It would be a welcome change. Now if we could just convince them that it's cool to port stuff to something non-Windows after a fashion. I don't have any issues with them releasing early versions of things for Windows, but refusing to open themselves up to a larger market is a bummer. I suppose they could make Windows enjoyable to use - in which case I wouldn't mind so much.
Band Cuts Apple in for 30% Share of Sales
People who resort to derogatory labels such as "deniers" are, as a general rule, faith-based subjectivists. They're very good, however, at making subjective statements as if they were actual facts. Although, extra points added for discrediting everyone that falls outside of a group that you get to define.
See how easy that is? I'm guessing the main difference between our comments is that I'm being facetious.
This is a fine example of what I'm talking about. "They" is such a nice, wide brush.
However, a crap summary (as is usual at slashdot, regardless of the topic) being believed by people who are too lazy to RTFA (as is usual at slashdot, regardless of the topic) turns into a condemnation of people believing the summary and then lumping them in with a bunch of whack jobs. Well, okay - I guess that's usual at slashdot too.
In my view, the entire tagged content could have easily been omitted, resulting in an informative response rather than a flamebait response. Not that the rest of it wasn't a bit confrontational, but I can easily understand being irritated about having to do a slashdot editor's job for them. I just think it would be more productive to lay out the facts and, if you really feel the need to vent, to vent on the editor and the submitter.
Frankly, if /. wasn't so terribly fucking broken, I would never have seen this story anyway. Unfortunately, I'm apparently locked into the index2.pl beta test in which editor filtering no longer works. Although we seem to be getting to the point where all of the editors are indistinguishable from kdawson. And yes, I know, I personally need to be remembering to check the stories before clicking on them so as to do the filtering myself.
I see. So a typical slashdot story ('typical' meaning filled with hyperbole, false information, FUD, and generally intended to get people's panties in a bunch in order to generate hits) is evidence of a sweeping religious campaign. Gosh. You're so open minded. It's a shame that attitudes like yours help perpetuate this stupidity.
Why is it that people that view the AGW hypothesis with skepticism often get tossed in with the Young Earthers, ID crowd, and other religious zealots? I can understand the rhetoric of "deniers" and similar crap coming from people such as Al Gore whose credibility and image are deeply tied into this, thus giving them a very emotionally based motivation for squelching all opposition. But why is it that people who appear to be approaching things from a logical and objective standpoint still have to engage in smear tactics? It does nothing but make them look like subjective bigots themselves. At least that's the impression I'm always left with.
Wait. You can't possibly be new here! Okay, enough of that.
It's also unfortunate that many of the standards are so inflexible (USB, e.g.) as to preclude beneficial functionality on the consumer's end. For example, Apple used a modified USB on the original iMac to allow you to power the computer on (and sleep it) from the keyboard. Unfortunately, because it wasn't per spec (I'm assuming) they eventually dropped it. Another example is the ADC connector which carried digital & analog video, monitor power, USB, & soft power switch signals, via a single cable. Unfortunately, it required video vendor buy-in (making the cards more expensive) and never gained any non-Apple support (that, and the fact that the monitor power was limited). Plus it required an obnoxiously expensive adapter cable to pull out the DVI & RGB for non-Apple monitor use. But from a consumer convenience standpoint, it was a big improvement over the DVI system.
Granted, I'm unaware of any efforts by Apple to encourage adoption of either of these by other companies, unlike Firewire, for example.
Frequently, as the GP said, Apple uses standards when they are suitable. I've often seen NuBus referred to as a "proprietary bus". You know, good ol' proprietary IEEE-1196. That icky MIT bus that prevented the user the joy of installing IRQ jumpers. And they bailed on ADB when something better came along - USB. This before there was OS support for it in the Windows/Linux world. Alas, it's far more fun to continue the "proprietary" meme ad nauseam. Yeah - I know - I must be new here.
Yeah! Stop wasting your time with "facts" and "research". Gee. You can prove anything with facts! Moron.