There's a big difference in the types of infringement.
Someone steals your bycicle, adds a toot horn to it and then sells it for a profit. Someone steals your bycicle and just rides around in it.
Which of these is not theft?
Stealing is stealing and copyright is copyright, no matter how many cute rationalizations you manage to come up with to try and prove differently.
This is obvioulsy fairly simple to justify.
Of course it is. To you. That's my point.
Under intellectual property law they are the same, regardless of the "Robin Hood" factor that you seem to like so much. Until said laws change, however, your point is invalid.
it's perfectly possible to support, say, music piracy while not supporting GPL violations without being a hypocrite. It depends very much on your motivations for supporting copyright law
ROFL! That's one very gray shade of gray you've got going there. I'd ask you how you rationalize that, but I really don't think I'd hear anything I haven't heard before from other Slashbots.
Store procedures. Triggers. Views. It's like it'll be a real DB!
My ghod, I've been listening to the FOSS nuts argue this very thing for six years! I mean, if I were any more gullible I'd actually believe that MySQL was better than SQL Server and Oracle and DB2! In 1998!
The part where the GPL grants me rights above fair use as long as the source stays open is, in my opinion, unfair.
Then again, no one is forcing me to use GPL code, much as no one forces me to download the latest Britney Spears CD off LimeWire.
If you are going to consider the music|movie industry's stance on copyright and fair use "unethical" or "invalid" then I'm going to do the same with the GPL.
In the end, however, copyright law is that: law. We do not get to ignore it in some cases based on vague philosophical arguments and cry KILL KILL KILL in others. CherryOS is wrong as much as Johnny Hacker is downloading last year's Simsons episodes in a convenient DivX format for easy viewing and burning to DVDR. That is my point.
Fair use does not allow you to pass others work off as your own.
I'm going to write an email to the CherryOS folks and suggest they add a blurb to their "about" page or whatever that says "Contains code by PearPC". That would be "fair", no? After all, the "fair use" encoded in the GPL is Stallman's very own definition, and since we all consider copyright to be evil, then it should be OK.
Funny, because there are plenty of people who give their software away for free, but can afford to eat. After all if their were no copyright things would be a lot cheaper.
You're confused. Maybe you've been reading The Stallman Diaries too much.
If copyright didn't exist then the GPL (and pretty much any other use or distribution license) would be unenforceable. That is, the limitations imposed by the GPL in terms of distribution would not stand. So anyone could anything with your code. That "plenty of people" can give software away and still eat is because of copyright enforcement.
I choose GPL because I don't believe in copyright, if everyone used the GPL then there would be no copyright, and an electronic copy wouldn't have any value in it's self.
No. if copyright didn't exist or was structured differently then there would be no need for the GPL. Two different things.
the money does not go to some anonymous company, to buy their directors champagne and caviar and make stock holders rich, years after their employees have died.
Viva la revolucion komandante!
If their were no copyright or ownership laws we would not need the GPL.
True, but then you wouldn't be able to eat if you happened to be an artist, musician or software developer.
I think the problem is not so much the specifics of this case, which I would completely agree are very different from P2P piracy.
No, the problem is that I've never seen anyone here go to great lengths to rationalize and justify this type of copyright infringement. But when Slashbork posts the *AA-story-of-the-week you can browse at +5 and read the most mind-bending, self-serving "commentary" about why copyright is "evil", the *AA sucks, the artists are getting screwed and "we're sticking it to the man so fire up eMule and let's get it on". To claps and assenting nods from the peanut gallery. Time and time again.
Copyright is copyright. The GPL exists to counter the idea of copyright and gets its "teeth" as it were from it as well. If everyone is going to ask for blood when the GPL is violated somehow (by ignoring the force of the of the work's original creator copyright) then maybe everyone could also cry foul when someone tries to call infringement "fair use" because it happens to be music instead of source code.
Wake me up when it's actually stable and mature enough (like Perl, Python, Java, PHP,.NET and so on) that I can base a real live product on it.
Otherwise, and getting back to topic, we wouldn't be having this conversation if the OO.org people had decided to use it instead of Java. It's so hot after all.
Writing a crappy CMS and managing the website the thing is supposed to power are two very different things.
In any case, pudge mostly hacks Slashcode now. I have no idea what Taco does, but if he's not coding then maybe he could try and run the website he still considers his hobby with a little professionalism. After all, it made him rich and provides a paycheck every week. The effin' least he can do is figure out a way to avoid posting dupes. This is not rocket science here, and we must assume that since he has the skills (after all, he wrote Slashcode, no?) something is preventing him from writing some sort of article digest script with the intelligence of an eucaryote that he can run his daily submissions against and get a big warning and suggestion to review possible matches before he clicks the "Fuck it, let's post this" button.
The other problem of course is that he won't scratch his crotch without someone giving him a patch for it. The typical open source burnout "if you want that so bad write it yourself and send it to me, kthx" attitude.
So please cut it with the "you try and do that" responses. This is how Taco makes his living. He should do it well. How many people do you know that could do a better job than him? He was just in the right place at the right time by accident.
You're wrong. And even if you were right, I'd have a hard time rationalizing the switch from a full-fledged IDE to a general editor because it couldn't do rectangular selection, which is a feature that I use maybe three times a year anyway. Integration with CVS? I use Subversion at home and SourceGear Vault at work, thanks.
I like and use vim/gvim every day on both Windows and Linux and I love it, but I wouldn't give up the productivity. Writing C code on emacs or vim makes me feel very 1337, but most of the time I need to make a living.
You submitted the article because it lets you waddle in your pointless "M$" bashing yet again. This is a non-story. The guy is an idiot. The "editors" accepted it because they were running low on their borg quota for the day, I'm sure.
BTW, nice to see you're posting at -1 now. I guess what goes around comes around.
That's disingenious and one of the common problems with people trying to debunk arguments about why technology X is better than Y. Where is parrot today? Where has it been for the past five years? If it's so hot why hasn't it taken off? Why isn't van Rossum backporting Python to it? Why isn't Larry Wall using it for Perl 6? Why don't I hear about it every week?
Java and.NET on the other hand are here today and already have lots of traction. Arguing that Parrot is somehow 'better' than Java because it is theoretically better architected is pointless.
For all the daunting capabilities of the bazaar model and the "explosive" availablity of developer resource that are supposed to be out there, I find it interesting that someone hasn't developed a "trully free" alternative language/platform that rivals Java and.NET. All they can do is copy the big boys (classpath, Mono, the GNU.NET clone and so on) rather badly, and then bitch when someone decides that maybe, just maybe, this is an example of commercial software being far and above where FOSS will probably ever be.
Suddenly lost your insightful witty banter capabilities, I see.
Next time try hard and think before labeling someone "liar". You just might find yourself being called on your bullshit, and that tends to be embarrassing.
This is so funny. WMP gives you the option to protect your own music (which can be turned off) and to acquire licenses for DRM'ed music you get through the internet or whatever. That's it.
Apple has hoisted the biggest media DRM initiative *to date* on consumers no one bats an eyelash.
Just keep buying those iPods and living in your fantasy world.
It does a decent job of filtering it. You're probably not getting spam in Chinese or Korean. 2 out of 5 times their filter will fail to see that the EXACT SAME MESSAGE I 'reported' as spam YESTERDAY is actually... well, spam.
I'd go as far as saying that the rinky client-side OLK2003 filter is better than GMail's, though for some reason it catches some attachment worms but not others (often the same payload, subject, content and sender but different originating IPs). Go figure.
It's OK, though. Just not where it needs to be yet.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes. It's called "Knoppix".
Dupe.
[Your comment violated the "dupe" compression filter. Try less repetition. Article aborted.]
Someone steals your bycicle, adds a toot horn to it and then sells it for a profit. Someone steals your bycicle and just rides around in it.
Which of these is not theft?
Stealing is stealing and copyright is copyright, no matter how many cute rationalizations you manage to come up with to try and prove differently.
This is obvioulsy fairly simple to justify.
Of course it is. To you. That's my point.
Under intellectual property law they are the same, regardless of the "Robin Hood" factor that you seem to like so much. Until said laws change, however, your point is invalid.
ROFL! That's one very gray shade of gray you've got going there. I'd ask you how you rationalize that, but I really don't think I'd hear anything I haven't heard before from other Slashbots.
Thanks for making my point, BTW.
My ghod, I've been listening to the FOSS nuts argue this very thing for six years! I mean, if I were any more gullible I'd actually believe that MySQL was better than SQL Server and Oracle and DB2! In 1998!
Sorry, I stupidly replied to myself.
Then again, no one is forcing me to use GPL code, much as no one forces me to download the latest Britney Spears CD off LimeWire.
If you are going to consider the music|movie industry's stance on copyright and fair use "unethical" or "invalid" then I'm going to do the same with the GPL.
In the end, however, copyright law is that: law. We do not get to ignore it in some cases based on vague philosophical arguments and cry KILL KILL KILL in others. CherryOS is wrong as much as Johnny Hacker is downloading last year's Simsons episodes in a convenient DivX format for easy viewing and burning to DVDR. That is my point.
I'm going to write an email to the CherryOS folks and suggest they add a blurb to their "about" page or whatever that says "Contains code by PearPC". That would be "fair", no? After all, the "fair use" encoded in the GPL is Stallman's very own definition, and since we all consider copyright to be evil, then it should be OK.
Fair?
You're confused. Maybe you've been reading The Stallman Diaries too much.
If copyright didn't exist then the GPL (and pretty much any other use or distribution license) would be unenforceable. That is, the limitations imposed by the GPL in terms of distribution would not stand. So anyone could anything with your code. That "plenty of people" can give software away and still eat is because of copyright enforcement.
Hope that helps.
No. if copyright didn't exist or was structured differently then there would be no need for the GPL. Two different things.
the money does not go to some anonymous company, to buy their directors champagne and caviar and make stock holders rich, years after their employees have died.
Viva la revolucion komandante!
If their were no copyright or ownership laws we would not need the GPL.
True, but then you wouldn't be able to eat if you happened to be an artist, musician or software developer.
I hope you wouldn't mind then that CherryOS is utilizing their one "fair use copy" of PearPC, mmm?
No, the problem is that I've never seen anyone here go to great lengths to rationalize and justify this type of copyright infringement. But when Slashbork posts the *AA-story-of-the-week you can browse at +5 and read the most mind-bending, self-serving "commentary" about why copyright is "evil", the *AA sucks, the artists are getting screwed and "we're sticking it to the man so fire up eMule and let's get it on". To claps and assenting nods from the peanut gallery. Time and time again.
Copyright is copyright. The GPL exists to counter the idea of copyright and gets its "teeth" as it were from it as well. If everyone is going to ask for blood when the GPL is violated somehow (by ignoring the force of the of the work's original creator copyright) then maybe everyone could also cry foul when someone tries to call infringement "fair use" because it happens to be music instead of source code.
Sorry. I should have phrased that as:
Wake me up when it's actually stable and mature enough (like Perl, Python, Java, PHP, .NET and so on) that I can base a real live product on it.
Otherwise, and getting back to topic, we wouldn't be having this conversation if the OO.org people had decided to use it instead of Java. It's so hot after all.
In any case, pudge mostly hacks Slashcode now. I have no idea what Taco does, but if he's not coding then maybe he could try and run the website he still considers his hobby with a little professionalism. After all, it made him rich and provides a paycheck every week. The effin' least he can do is figure out a way to avoid posting dupes. This is not rocket science here, and we must assume that since he has the skills (after all, he wrote Slashcode, no?) something is preventing him from writing some sort of article digest script with the intelligence of an eucaryote that he can run his daily submissions against and get a big warning and suggestion to review possible matches before he clicks the "Fuck it, let's post this" button.
The other problem of course is that he won't scratch his crotch without someone giving him a patch for it. The typical open source burnout "if you want that so bad write it yourself and send it to me, kthx" attitude.
So please cut it with the "you try and do that" responses. This is how Taco makes his living. He should do it well. How many people do you know that could do a better job than him? He was just in the right place at the right time by accident.
I like and use vim/gvim every day on both Windows and Linux and I love it, but I wouldn't give up the productivity. Writing C code on emacs or vim makes me feel very 1337, but most of the time I need to make a living.
BTW, nice to see you're posting at -1 now. I guess what goes around comes around.
Yawn. Wake me up when it actually ships, eh?
Java and .NET on the other hand are here today and already have lots of traction. Arguing that Parrot is somehow 'better' than Java because it is theoretically better architected is pointless.
No. Eclipse is nice but it doesn't hold a candle to Visual Studio. It might, but right now it doesn't.
Even VS5 (circa 1996) is superior to most anything FOSS has ever produced.
You saw it here first!
And let's not get started on IDEs...
I'm sure you did.
Next time try hard and think before labeling someone "liar". You just might find yourself being called on your bullshit, and that tends to be embarrassing.
Have a nice life.
This is so funny. WMP gives you the option to protect your own music (which can be turned off) and to acquire licenses for DRM'ed music you get through the internet or whatever. That's it.
Apple has hoisted the biggest media DRM initiative *to date* on consumers no one bats an eyelash.
Just keep buying those iPods and living in your fantasy world.
It does a decent job of filtering it. You're probably not getting spam in Chinese or Korean. 2 out of 5 times their filter will fail to see that the EXACT SAME MESSAGE I 'reported' as spam YESTERDAY is actually... well, spam.
I'd go as far as saying that the rinky client-side OLK2003 filter is better than GMail's, though for some reason it catches some attachment worms but not others (often the same payload, subject, content and sender but different originating IPs). Go figure.
It's OK, though. Just not where it needs to be yet.