Actually with server you get 2 with the server install of W2K. Additional licenses come in at a minimum of 5 @ about $70 a pop for regular buyers but they're dirt cheap for academic institutions.
But you are correct, fine sir, with W2K you get remote admin through terminal services for the initial cost. One other point is that W2K Terminal Server as a product is not accurate, its actually the licensing mode on a regular or advanced server that designates it as either remote administration or application server.
...a similar comparison using both a novice Linux user and a novice Windows 2K user and see the results. I'd be more prone to believe their experiences compared to just one person who probably has experience in both.
I use both, but deal with Windows as my job on a daily basis. If I have an issue with Windows I know how to clear it up quickly, if I have an issue with Linux I know I'm off on the Google Trail. This doesn't make Linux bad, it's only a matter of experience in the field.
I'd also like to see the novice Wiindows users expression when trying to choose packages to install on the web site.:)
So you have to reg at the NYT website. You are asked to reg at/. as well as a gazilion other websites. As far as I know, since I'm reg'd there, is that the NYT site is FREE to register. So you can't just link stories from/. to it without doing so. Big fucking DEAL!
They have your e-mail address. OH NO! You are now part of their evil plan to get your e-mail address and allow you to view their content. Those monsters!
While I admit it might be annoying, its not criminal, and it's certainly more generous than many other pay sites. Get OFF it people and try to be original.
Next week I will explore the reasons why beer IS NOT FREE, unless you steal it from your neighbors refrigerator.
Err, ok, so you want to tell everyone to warn them FIRST, and then ensure the details are available in the near future? That's easy. Kill yourself and when you come back after being reincarnated you can divulge all the details you want. I'd recommend implimenting this plan right away so you're old enough when you want to make the BIG ANNOUNCEMENT.
The majority of these comments seems to infer 2 basic things in regard to the article:
1. The user of the machine is either competant or cares about the state of the machine. (ie. comments about how easy it is to keep it clean/organized/know what's going on)
2. Assumes that every computer on the planet has an IT department standing behind it who knows what it's doing.
I take care of hundreds of networks for a living and the last thing I want to do when I get home is to fart around with my own boxes. My boxes are probably at Force +13 on the F*'d up scale, but as long as they work and my data is backed up I don't care. I might have some time in January to set them back up.
The point is, while there are lots of perfect little computer housekeepers here, in my experience, this article hits it right on the Windows Key. Personally I can't believe people have time to type through all the laughing.
If you guys have time could you come over and clean up my mess? I'll leave the door open.
We've been installing CAT6 for months now, but it is news that a standard has been agreed upon. The problem was that different manufacturers of patch panels, jacks, etc all had their own standards which could possibly cause issues if you used different hardware. In our installs, we simply used CAT5 equiptment to terminate until a time those customers needed CAT6 capability. Now all we'll have to do is swap our terminations, but don't have to run new cable.
Also, per 1000 feet, the cost is about 25% higher for CAT6 than CAT5, somewhere on the order of ~$80 for a box of CAT5 and ~$105-$110 depending on the manufacturer. Not exactly a big jump when you're looking at large installs with large budgets:)
For a reasonably brave person, building your own system is certainly the way to go. Compaq has come a long way in business models away from the proprietary format but its home models will probably stay the same, especially since being acquired.
Now for larger scale installs, I stay away from the white boxes for one single reason: different hardware. Time and time again I've seen orders filled that all have different hardware even though it was asked of them to use *exactly* the same in each machine. This creates a nightmare when you are trying to clone a large number of machines for things like labs, or even in a large scale deployment in an office. While drive space is cheap enough to store different images, it still takes unnecessary time to prep all those different configs.
The other upside to buying business class computers for large organizations is getting replacement parts pretty quick. I deal with Compaq a lot and their turn around time is less than 24 hours on parts ordered by a certain time. Plus I don't have to go through hoops for them, we order then all online. No phone time with a tech or anything. I'm sure there are a few white box vendors out there with good support like that, but I doubt its a high percentage.
This is much easier than some of the more well thought out comments here. Here is my recipe for making sure that users save all their data to the network for backup.
1. Setup file server. 2. Ensure there is a drive(s) mapped on the workstations that people can save to. 3. Send out an e-mail talking about how your weekend went, include a bit of data related to what you do, and make a quick remark about saving to the new mapped drives. 4. Stay late one Friday about a week after the e-mail went out and walk around the office and delete no less than 10 important documents from each PC. 5. Empty all recycle bins.
You can now kick back for a couple of weeks and enjoy the mayhem and the sweet satisfaction of being able to tell them 'I told you so'. You can get bonus points for deleting mission critical application data and being able to blame a co-worker for being incompetant.
If you even want to remotely move any MS employee of any clout towards some type of Open Source model, you have to start small and demonstrate how it will benefit THEM, not a competing operating system. Somehow I don't think they're having board meetings fretting over how they can help *nix. Nor, contrary to some other statements here, are they in immenent danger of losing substantial market share if they don't immediatly change their ways. There are too many other MS products companies rely on that require them to be married to the operating system in one form or another.
As someone else pointed out, the argument, or the persuasion, should be something small like opening the source to IIS and pointing out that with hundreds, if not thousands of people eye-balling the code and fixing the problems, they benefit by not paying a programmer (or a team) to fix the numerous problems in an existing product, and by fixing the program, turns off a persistant public relations problem. Will it cause problems? Initially it might, until the flood of fixes start pouring in. But in the end they end up with a better product, and less admin by the end user, who probably has better things to do than check for security patches on a daily basis.
Its amazing to me that we've barely explored our own solar system, besides some pretty pictures from flybys and the occasional motorized Tonka truck, yet even with our limited knowledge, and intelligence, purport we know what the nature of the universe is.
A hundred years ago the vast majority of people either walked or used horses for conveyance and used a trench to expel bodily waste, if they were lucky to find a trench. But apparently because we have computers and Twinkies and the Clapper(r) we can make judgements from theory on the status of the BILLIONS of galaxies which harbor MILLIONS of stars of which, even if we had a machine that given to all humans, both present and future generations, could instantaneously transport us from star to star, would be largly unexplored before the eventual end of the universe.
Personally I find the human race a bit ego-centric in the rationale that the universe was made for them and the reasoning suspect to justify their beliefs.
I don't know about your experience, but I work at a company that is a Compaq reseller and in my experience they are far easier to deal with than people at either Dell, Gateway or HP. As a reseller we don't even have to call in for a part replacement, we do it all on the web, and the part is shipped UPS by the next day.
Plus I've found that their server support is pretty kickass when I've talked to them on the phone. As they now support RedHat, Caldera, MS, and Netware I see that as a plus to be able to confidently tell a customer to buy a Linux box with Compaq since it is supported officially.
I might be biased as a reseller, but dealing with them was much less pain than dealing with Gateway, or better yet, Dell technicians to run through a troubleshooting session that was already done after being in the queue for an hour.:p And yes, we even went through the hoops to be Dell certified only to learn there are no extra perks unless you're selling a gazillion units a month. We still had to wait on hold like every other end user.
I'd pay $100 per complete PC if I knew it was being taken care of in a environmentally safe manner. Period.
If you look at the total lifecycle of a PC and the damaging effects it has on the environment in a landfill situation, a hundred bucks is a paltry cost to know that it is being recycled properly to be used for something else, which is no mean feat if you look at it closly.
While I'm not some super Eco-freak bent on saving the planet from the man-apes, I think its admirable that someone took some time to think up a possible, reasonable way to pay for disposal of PCs and it associated parts, and paying for the enormous costs such disposal costs.
Personally, I'd pay 2-3 times what I'm paying for garbage disposal if I knew my trash was going through some process to sort and recycle the waste. (I'm not in any municipal recycling program where I live) I don't really relish my legacy to be one of excessive waste.
You can mod me off the planet, but those that nit-pick at the cost, or perform analysis per part, or use this as some Big Brother tactic are completely irresponsible. I betcha they would love to just throw their garbage on the street and hope it would just mysteriously vanish.
*Poof* It's magic!
Get real and take some responsibilty for your lives. Before you spam me with your idiocy, take a look a look up the actual costs of PC disposal. You might find yourselves a bit enlightened.
Here was a lame quick Google: http://news.com.com/2009-1040-256833-3.ht ml?legacy =cnet
Enligten yourselves before you get your panties all in a bunch about a few bucks.
My company has been implimenting the NBX since it was demo'd for us to quite a number of clients at remote sites, and its been nothing but good.
It has a great interface to work with, albeit web-based, but one of the most well thought out I've seen. Plus you don't HAVE to buy a phone in order to use it. Install the client app on a users computer, give them a headphone, open up the app, and use 'the phone' just like you would any other. Great for employeees whos job is to spend all day on the phone.
But like the prior poster pointed out, VOIP has really come along quite nicely. Those that complain about the cost of the bandwidth and factor in the price IMO don't already have a decent connection. Those that do see it as a necessity and laugh at all the modem users behind their backs while pretending to sympathize. But seriously, I do understand their plight unlike these other cretins. Really.
I fully intend to install this marvelous plug-in and finally bring justice to the likes of Disney, CNN and Nickelodeon. Regardless of what you guys say, their tyranny and disrespect for the law WILL be reported, and GOD speed to those wonderful folks at FAST for taking up my cause.
You'll be seeing ALOT of my reports you thankless heroes.
What I fail to grasp is what the Linux community would gain if, in some bizzare act, Microsoft fell off the face of the planet. Who would you compare yourself to then? Apple, whom you embrace though they make money off their software?
Don't get me wrong, I like Linux, but it appears to me that people will come up with the same old crap to flame M$ for even when they are trying to correct the issue. Lets not also forget that Microsoft employs human beings with families. Human beings that probably care just as much as Linux coders about what they put out. Bill Gates is not pumping out the next interation of Office, but you act like he is.
I could go on, so I will. Linux will only dominate the market when it takes on practices it abhors. If you don't make a major thrust into the desktop market, M$ will always win. M$ has money, Linux doesn't. You need money to get to the top and stay there. Even if Linux (and especially the accompanying software) were light years ahead of Windows (in many ways it is) it would still fail to dominate without appealing to the normal person. If I did a man on the street interview with a hundred people, how many do you think would know about Linux compared to Microsoft?
How is this different than certain messageboards or other sites like FilePlanet that require you to register to use them?
I just went in for kicks to look at the requirements for a passport, and the most invasive question besides your e-mail address (like you've NEVER given it out before) is asking for your country/state information. BIG F'in DEAL!
I know people here want to bash on Microsoft and Gates every chance they get, but get a life people. Next thing you know they'll be a report about how a majority of MS employees drive automobiles to work and the statistics on how much their commute each day hurts our 'free' air.
After reading the article on the front page, I'd like to know at what point the poster as well as/. was able to leap to the conclusion that the P10 was dead. Even the article (diary) didn't come to such a conclusion. As an avid follower of space news (though many believe it a waste of money, even/. at times) I was disappointed to be mislead by the news 'tip' and the irrational jump to a conclusion derived from the fact that the SETI team at first got a signal then determined that it was from their equipment to mean that P10 was dead in the water. This is a helluva jump.
There are a number of reasons why SETI equipment, even the Aracibo hardware did not pick it up, most of which have been touched on in previous comments. The problem as I see it is a premature conclusion from one reader and slashdot newsposters not reading the article submitted before posting, thereby leading to a loss in life (mine) rebutting said article.
Lastly, in the e-tip posted on the front page, there were MANY inaccuracies concerning the article, most of which were derived, of course by the tipsters imagination, on a single paragraph. If I'm correct, the posters paraphrase on said paragraph was twice the size of the original. My only real gripe here is not the fact that this is important, its not, the P10 will not really give us much data that we can use for the next few lifetimes if operational, but that a great site like/. doesn't seems to research submitted news tips the way they should for the number of devout daily readers.
Slashdot Mirror
Actually with server you get 2 with the server install of W2K. Additional licenses come in at a minimum of 5 @ about $70 a pop for regular buyers but they're dirt cheap for academic institutions.
But you are correct, fine sir, with W2K you get remote admin through terminal services for the initial cost. One other point is that W2K Terminal Server as a product is not accurate, its actually the licensing mode on a regular or advanced server that designates it as either remote administration or application server.
...a similar comparison using both a novice Linux user and a novice Windows 2K user and see the results. I'd be more prone to believe their experiences compared to just one person who probably has experience in both.
:)
I use both, but deal with Windows as my job on a daily basis. If I have an issue with Windows I know how to clear it up quickly, if I have an issue with Linux I know I'm off on the Google Trail. This doesn't make Linux bad, it's only a matter of experience in the field.
I'd also like to see the novice Wiindows users expression when trying to choose packages to install on the web site.
The NY Times ("open" but not "free" registration)
/. as well as a gazilion other websites. As far as I know, since I'm reg'd there, is that the NYT site is FREE to register. So you can't just link stories from /. to it without doing so. Big fucking DEAL!
So you have to reg at the NYT website. You are asked to reg at
They have your e-mail address. OH NO! You are now part of their evil plan to get your e-mail address and allow you to view their content. Those monsters!
While I admit it might be annoying, its not criminal, and it's certainly more generous than many other pay sites. Get OFF it people and try to be original.
Next week I will explore the reasons why beer IS NOT FREE, unless you steal it from your neighbors refrigerator.
Err, ok, so you want to tell everyone to warn them FIRST, and then ensure the details are available in the near future? That's easy. Kill yourself and when you come back after being reincarnated you can divulge all the details you want. I'd recommend implimenting this plan right away so you're old enough when you want to make the BIG ANNOUNCEMENT.
Seriously, it's a good plan.
The majority of these comments seems to infer 2 basic things in regard to the article:
1. The user of the machine is either competant or cares about the state of the machine. (ie. comments about how easy it is to keep it clean/organized/know what's going on)
2. Assumes that every computer on the planet has an IT department standing behind it who knows what it's doing.
I take care of hundreds of networks for a living and the last thing I want to do when I get home is to fart around with my own boxes. My boxes are probably at Force +13 on the F*'d up scale, but as long as they work and my data is backed up I don't care. I might have some time in January to set them back up.
The point is, while there are lots of perfect little computer housekeepers here, in my experience, this article hits it right on the Windows Key. Personally I can't believe people have time to type through all the laughing.
If you guys have time could you come over and clean up my mess? I'll leave the door open.
We've been installing CAT6 for months now, but it is news that a standard has been agreed upon. The problem was that different manufacturers of patch panels, jacks, etc all had their own standards which could possibly cause issues if you used different hardware. In our installs, we simply used CAT5 equiptment to terminate until a time those customers needed CAT6 capability. Now all we'll have to do is swap our terminations, but don't have to run new cable.
:)
Also, per 1000 feet, the cost is about 25% higher for CAT6 than CAT5, somewhere on the order of ~$80 for a box of CAT5 and ~$105-$110 depending on the manufacturer. Not exactly a big jump when you're looking at large installs with large budgets
....it'll be a felony to say 'God Bless America' and the 'G' word will be banned from radio by the FCC.
The extreme PC of the US makes me want to vomit in my own shoes. Excuse me so I can find some ethnic group to insult to make me feel better.
For a reasonably brave person, building your own system is certainly the way to go. Compaq has come a long way in business models away from the proprietary format but its home models will probably stay the same, especially since being acquired.
Now for larger scale installs, I stay away from the white boxes for one single reason: different hardware. Time and time again I've seen orders filled that all have different hardware even though it was asked of them to use *exactly* the same in each machine. This creates a nightmare when you are trying to clone a large number of machines for things like labs, or even in a large scale deployment in an office. While drive space is cheap enough to store different images, it still takes unnecessary time to prep all those different configs.
The other upside to buying business class computers for large organizations is getting replacement parts pretty quick. I deal with Compaq a lot and their turn around time is less than 24 hours on parts ordered by a certain time. Plus I don't have to go through hoops for them, we order then all online. No phone time with a tech or anything. I'm sure there are a few white box vendors out there with good support like that, but I doubt its a high percentage.
This is much easier than some of the more well thought out comments here. Here is my recipe for making sure that users save all their data to the network for backup.
1. Setup file server.
2. Ensure there is a drive(s) mapped on the workstations that people can save to.
3. Send out an e-mail talking about how your weekend went, include a bit of data related to what you do, and make a quick remark about saving to the new mapped drives.
4. Stay late one Friday about a week after the e-mail went out and walk around the office and delete no less than 10 important documents from each PC.
5. Empty all recycle bins.
You can now kick back for a couple of weeks and enjoy the mayhem and the sweet satisfaction of being able to tell them 'I told you so'. You can get bonus points for deleting mission critical application data and being able to blame a co-worker for being incompetant.
Hope that helps.
If you even want to remotely move any MS employee of any clout towards some type of Open Source model, you have to start small and demonstrate how it will benefit THEM, not a competing operating system. Somehow I don't think they're having board meetings fretting over how they can help *nix. Nor, contrary to some other statements here, are they in immenent danger of losing substantial market share if they don't immediatly change their ways. There are too many other MS products companies rely on that require them to be married to the operating system in one form or another.
As someone else pointed out, the argument, or the persuasion, should be something small like opening the source to IIS and pointing out that with hundreds, if not thousands of people eye-balling the code and fixing the problems, they benefit by not paying a programmer (or a team) to fix the numerous problems in an existing product, and by fixing the program, turns off a persistant public relations problem. Will it cause problems? Initially it might, until the flood of fixes start pouring in. But in the end they end up with a better product, and less admin by the end user, who probably has better things to do than check for security patches on a daily basis.
Its amazing to me that we've barely explored our own solar system, besides some pretty pictures from flybys and the occasional motorized Tonka truck, yet even with our limited knowledge, and intelligence, purport we know what the nature of the universe is.
A hundred years ago the vast majority of people either walked or used horses for conveyance and used a trench to expel bodily waste, if they were lucky to find a trench. But apparently because we have computers and Twinkies and the Clapper(r) we can make judgements from theory on the status of the BILLIONS of galaxies which harbor MILLIONS of stars of which, even if we had a machine that given to all humans, both present and future generations, could instantaneously transport us from star to star, would be largly unexplored before the eventual end of the universe.
Personally I find the human race a bit ego-centric in the rationale that the universe was made for them and the reasoning suspect to justify their beliefs.
I don't know about your experience, but I work at a company that is a Compaq reseller and in my experience they are far easier to deal with than people at either Dell, Gateway or HP. As a reseller we don't even have to call in for a part replacement, we do it all on the web, and the part is shipped UPS by the next day.
:p And yes, we even went through the hoops to be Dell certified only to learn there are no extra perks unless you're selling a gazillion units a month. We still had to wait on hold like every other end user.
Plus I've found that their server support is pretty kickass when I've talked to them on the phone. As they now support RedHat, Caldera, MS, and Netware I see that as a plus to be able to confidently tell a customer to buy a Linux box with Compaq since it is supported officially.
I might be biased as a reseller, but dealing with them was much less pain than dealing with Gateway, or better yet, Dell technicians to run through a troubleshooting session that was already done after being in the queue for an hour.
I'd pay $100 per complete PC if I knew it was being taken care of in a environmentally safe manner. Period.
t ml?legacy =cnet
If you look at the total lifecycle of a PC and the damaging effects it has on the environment in a landfill situation, a hundred bucks is a paltry cost to know that it is being recycled properly to be used for something else, which is no mean feat if you look at it closly.
While I'm not some super Eco-freak bent on saving the planet from the man-apes, I think its admirable that someone took some time to think up a possible, reasonable way to pay for disposal of PCs and it associated parts, and paying for the enormous costs such disposal costs.
Personally, I'd pay 2-3 times what I'm paying for garbage disposal if I knew my trash was going through some process to sort and recycle the waste. (I'm not in any municipal recycling program where I live) I don't really relish my legacy to be one of excessive waste.
You can mod me off the planet, but those that nit-pick at the cost, or perform analysis per part, or use this as some Big Brother tactic are completely irresponsible. I betcha they would love to just throw their garbage on the street and hope it would just mysteriously vanish.
*Poof* It's magic!
Get real and take some responsibilty for your lives. Before you spam me with your idiocy, take a look a look up the actual costs of PC disposal. You might find yourselves a bit enlightened.
Here was a lame quick Google:
http://news.com.com/2009-1040-256833-3.h
Enligten yourselves before you get your panties all in a bunch about a few bucks.
No. Seriously. I love you.
My company has been implimenting the NBX since it was demo'd for us to quite a number of clients at remote sites, and its been nothing but good.
It has a great interface to work with, albeit web-based, but one of the most well thought out I've seen. Plus you don't HAVE to buy a phone in order to use it. Install the client app on a users computer, give them a headphone, open up the app, and use 'the phone' just like you would any other. Great for employeees whos job is to spend all day on the phone.
But like the prior poster pointed out, VOIP has really come along quite nicely. Those that complain about the cost of the bandwidth and factor in the price IMO don't already have a decent connection. Those that do see it as a necessity and laugh at all the modem users behind their backs while pretending to sympathize. But seriously, I do understand their plight unlike these other cretins. Really.
I fully intend to install this marvelous plug-in and finally bring justice to the likes of Disney, CNN and Nickelodeon. Regardless of what you guys say, their tyranny and disrespect for the law WILL be reported, and GOD speed to those wonderful folks at FAST for taking up my cause.
You'll be seeing ALOT of my reports you thankless heroes.
Wow, another M$ bashing contest! Go you!
What I fail to grasp is what the Linux community would gain if, in some bizzare act, Microsoft fell off the face of the planet. Who would you compare yourself to then? Apple, whom you embrace though they make money off their software?
Don't get me wrong, I like Linux, but it appears to me that people will come up with the same old crap to flame M$ for even when they are trying to correct the issue. Lets not also forget that Microsoft employs human beings with families. Human beings that probably care just as much as Linux coders about what they put out. Bill Gates is not pumping out the next interation of Office, but you act like he is.
I could go on, so I will. Linux will only dominate the market when it takes on practices it abhors. If you don't make a major thrust into the desktop market, M$ will always win. M$ has money, Linux doesn't. You need money to get to the top and stay there. Even if Linux (and especially the accompanying software) were light years ahead of Windows (in many ways it is) it would still fail to dominate without appealing to the normal person. If I did a man on the street interview with a hundred people, how many do you think would know about Linux compared to Microsoft?
How is this different than certain messageboards or other sites like FilePlanet that require you to register to use them? I just went in for kicks to look at the requirements for a passport, and the most invasive question besides your e-mail address (like you've NEVER given it out before) is asking for your country/state information. BIG F'in DEAL! I know people here want to bash on Microsoft and Gates every chance they get, but get a life people. Next thing you know they'll be a report about how a majority of MS employees drive automobiles to work and the statistics on how much their commute each day hurts our 'free' air.
After reading the article on the front page, I'd like to know at what point the poster as well as /. was able to leap to the conclusion that the P10 was dead. Even the article (diary) didn't come to such a conclusion. As an avid follower of space news (though many believe it a waste of money, even /. at times) I was disappointed to be mislead by the news 'tip' and the irrational jump to a conclusion derived from the fact that the SETI team at first got a signal then determined that it was from their equipment to mean that P10 was dead in the water. This is a helluva jump.
/. doesn't seems to research submitted news tips the way they should for the number of devout daily readers.
:)
There are a number of reasons why SETI equipment, even the Aracibo hardware did not pick it up, most of which have been touched on in previous comments. The problem as I see it is a premature conclusion from one reader and slashdot newsposters not reading the article submitted before posting, thereby leading to a loss in life (mine) rebutting said article.
Lastly, in the e-tip posted on the front page, there were MANY inaccuracies concerning the article, most of which were derived, of course by the tipsters imagination, on a single paragraph. If I'm correct, the posters paraphrase on said paragraph was twice the size of the original. My only real gripe here is not the fact that this is important, its not, the P10 will not really give us much data that we can use for the next few lifetimes if operational, but that a great site like
Please feel free to slam a 1 one me