When laws drive ethics, you end up with the very attack that started this whole discussion
Are you claiming that there was a law somewhere that required people to fly commercial jets into buildings, thus people slowly got the impression that it was OK?
It doesn't matter that there are well-educated evildoers, because it's much harder for evildoers to influence those who are well educated
No it isn't.
How many of the terrorists that perpetrated Tuesday's attacks were well educated, do you think? I'd warrant that their education was a bit skewed.
Current information indicates that several of them were degreed engineers. I realize that that fact does not mean they were 'educated' in the broader sense of the term but it does mean that they had some quantity of post high school work.
Last I checked (and yes, experts on terrorism agree), cracking down on civil liberties causes terrorism
Which experts agree? You are just making wild accusations without any shred of evidence.
Why do you think the U.S. exists in the first place?
Are you claiming that the founding fathers were terrorists? How many innocent lives did they take en route to establishing America?
Saying that no scarcity means no profit is flat-out wrong (ask any farmer (or for that matter, anyone who sells commodities)
You are holding up farmers as examples of savvy businessmen? If it weren't for government subsidies there would be no farmers. Why do they need government subsidies? Because the food they grow is in abundance.
Saying no profit means no stuff implies that the only profits are monetary
The only profit is monetary. You can't possibly claim that social motivations will be enough to get people to achieve greatness. How many failed experiments have to be conducted before you realize that economic systems based on social rewards are doomed to failure? How many people have to starve?
Go read a book on economics before you toss off about how capitalism works
I had to do that to get my degree, in Economics.
I've got advnaced degrees in economics as well
Sure you do buddy, I bet. You are just dripping with degrees aren't you?
Apache is a free web server, but it's running more than two thirds of all web sites
No it isn't. Just because Slashdot claims its so doesn't make it reality. I don't understand why people don't question the mainstream media outlets more often.
Parhaps you aren't familiar with these packages because you don't use them in your job
Neither does anyone else. They don't contain enough functionality to be of use for any actual work. Yeah, they are neat to look at and I agree that it is amazing that a bunch of people would create something so elaborate on a whim, but don't pretend that it is actually fit for real work. Thats why the stuff is distributed with the disclaimer that "This software is provided without any warranty of any kind, not even an assurance of fitness for use" or some other such fancy way of saying that it doesn't really work all that well.
He is a full blown communist. He enjoys things like Central Planning, Vodka, long lines for bread, and goose stepping. Thats why he doesn't identify himself as an American.
Worse is the remark about the ticket agents' 'face recognition' not keeping the terrorists off the plane so computer based face recognition would not either.
I can picture some $5/hour ticket agent spending late nights studying the faces of all known terrorists.
The fact that some people can actually entertain the notion that human sentiment can be changed by "rules" makes me feel less safe in this world
It can't? Thousands of years of the rule of law seems to be keeping people in line generally. People seem to be getting the idea that murder is wrong.
The Web is only a means of expression of the feelings and opinions of people
Ok
Personally, I'd rather see the diversity of opinions and mind-sets being expressed out in the open, rather than being suppressed by paranoid authorities
Why do you think the authorities are paranoid? They are a bit more security conscious than your average person but that is because they are supposed to be keeing us safe, they have to be. I think the paranoid ones are the people who think that their government is out to get them.
In my profession as an alternative health therapist
Of for fuck's sake, had I known this I would not have responded.
educate and empower people to heal and overcome the underlying pain which causes destructive manifestations.
Should we light some candles and sing together? Education is always touted as the great savior, it isn't. There are plenty of very well educated people who are just inherently evil.
Nothing but a process of education, instilling in people from an early age a sense of local and global accountability for their actions, desires and choices will make any real progress in preventing any future tragedies.
Actually, a major crackdown on civil liberties would accomplish the same. If people are just not allowed to do stupid things then stupid things won't happen.
Isn't it time we recognised the immense human benefits that can come from the freeing up of information?
Translation: I don't like having to pay for stuff. I'd really like to be able to steal it without any penalties.
Lets be realistic, no scarcity means no profit. No profit means no stuff. Yeah, you can hold up free software as an example of what can happen even if there is no profit, but free software is shit compared to its proprietary counterpart and everyone knows it. Stop trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.
Really? If they can't support a simple demo of one of the most important games to come along this year, what the hell can they support?
I can just picture a bunch of geeks sitting around a filthy card table, the floor littered with HoHo wrappers:
Geek 1:"Dude, we need to code something up to play that Wolfenstein thing, it comes out this weekend. I'd do it but I'm still trying to get my sound card to work."
Geek 2:"I got a Star Trek convention to go to, I can't work on anything for at least a week."
Geek 3:"And I'm working on Token Ring support! There is one guy left on earth who uses it so of course we have to half ass support it."
Geek 1:"Theres a Star Trek convention?"
Geek 2:"Yeah, next weekend at the food court in the mall. I think a girl will be there."
Geek 1:"Really? Count me in, I still have my Spock outfit from last time."
Geek 3:"Fuck Token Ring, I'm in too."
Your problem is that you take an all-or-nothing view of the First Amendment. Lets treat it like we do the Second and let the government decide to whom it applies via licensing and such. I really don't see anything wrong with that, if you are a criminal you don't deserve to have the same freedoms as law abiding citizens. (Just like criminals can't own guns)
Further, such an approach would improve the signal to noise ratio by ensuring that communication was routed through approved vendors who would dispose of the chaff and provide us with the grain. Look at all of the misinformation that was spread on Slashdot during the days following the attacks. Most of that came from sources like Indymedia while the conventional outlets actually bothered to check the facts. I think we could all benefit if that sort of thing didn't happen again.
The open source community is doing a pretty good job of restricting Linux's distribution themselves, what with their laughable Token Ring support and lack of functionality in general.
When word hits the street that Linux affords a completely untraceable and unrestricted means of communicating over the internet (unlike Windows, it has a serial number!), well, lets just say that Linus Torvalds has better not drop the soap.
No! They are broke ass geeks who don't own anything. Its times like this when all of the evil, money grubbing, for profit corporations can throw $10 million around like its pocket change that you realize how annoying it is to be broke.
Maybe VA could donate some stock, it could be used to mop the sweat from the brows of the rescue workers.
Re:It's been said before...
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You are also going to have a very different "feel" between aircraft types. Different degrees of response, different handling, different stall speeds, etc. But those are not as dramatic as you might think
Acxtually, they are exactly as I might think because I have flown planes as small as Cessnas and as large as a Learjet 60. You think that because you know the basic mechanics of flight that you are qualified to write intelligently about flying commercial jets, typical Slashdot. It is different in all sorts of ways that matter if you plan to turn, or go up or down, or anything other than slam the plane into the ground. The bigger the plane the easier it becomes to overcorrect and get completely out of control.
As for putting a big jet down in the mud, do you have any idea how far a 767, traveling at just above stall speed, would go before it came to a stop? You realize that if a tree limb, a good sized rock, a fucking squirrel, punctured a fuel cell that everyone inside and everyone near the thing would be vaoprized?
Anyway, I'm bored with you so I'll let you wallow in your own ignorance. I hope someday you are able to test out your boundless stupidity by getting forced into the captain's chair of a 707, desperately looking for a 5000 yard long stretch of deep mud from 40,000 feet so you can put it down.
Re:Why the towers collapsed
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Dude, if someone left a large manilla envelope behind a toilet in Penn Station the whole damn place would be evacuated.
Re:It's been said before...
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I know for a fact that there are several police departments that issue Glasers as their standard ammunition
The standard police issue equipment is not the place to look if you want to get an idea of decent weapons and ammo. Most of those decisions are made in meetings. Thats why you can find countless stories of officers who get into shootouts, hit their target with 10 slugs, and the guy lives. Most departments issue 9mm softnose bullets of various makes, which is an absolutely abonimable cartridge for killing humans and absolutely does not belong on the hip of anyone interested in self defense. Most officers who know their stuff (and that is very few) replace the department issued sidearms with, at minimum, something chambered in 40 S&W, usually in 45ACP.
My self-defense gun is loaded with Glasers
I hope you never have to defend yourself. Mine carries 125 grain hollow points (its a 357 Mag). If I ever have to shoot at something I want it to die with the first shot, considering I'll probably be running like a bitch shortly after I fire.
I've probably fired about 100 rounds of Glaser ammo over the years at the range
I probably fired 500 rounds of various ammo last week.
so it needs to be handled carefully and replaced frequently
So that leads to your decision to use it as your carry ammo how?
Re:It's been said before...
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". I'm not an aerospace engineer, or a professional pilot.
But, oddly, that does not stop you from making ignorant suggestions. This reminds me of Tuesday, when the Slashbots were claiming that flying a commuter jet was the same as flying as Cessna, once you got it into the air.
Re:The aircraft bullets are "Glaser Safety Slugs"
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Nice damage, given that we used a clip.
You used a clip in an MP5 and got nice damage? How else would you have used it, as a single shot? Since you don't seem to know firearms too well, I'll assume you were using an Intertec 9 or some similarly low quailty disposable gangster gun. Pre-ban MP5s aren't too easy to come by unless you are SWAT, secret service, etc.
1 Glaser did an equivalent amount of damage. I shot from 7 yards, and a friend 5 yards behind me got hit by a piece of watermelon. Impressive.
A) 1 Glaser would not do an equivalent amount of damage as 30 rounds of 9mm. (I'm assuming 30 because the standard police issue MP5 clip holds 30). I could get pieces of watermelon to fly 5 yards using a BB gun. What you need to kill a person is penetration (to get to vital organs), something the Glaser round doesn't have.
As pro-firearms as I am I'm not convinced that they would be all that helpful during a hijacking. Any combat is likely to be close quarters, there is a high possibility of hitting innocent people, there is the liklihood of breaching the hull if you fire anything powerful enough to stop a human. A guy with a Taser would have much better luck.
Re:space imaging nyc image 09/12/2001
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Trying to explain economics to Slashbots is like trying to teach fish how to breath out of water.
I wouldn't worry too much about terrorism. The FAA has plans to limit passengers' ability to transport black holes on commercial airliners. All black holes with a diameter of more than 4 inches must be checked, not carried on.
Slashdot Mirror
Are you claiming that there was a law somewhere that required people to fly commercial jets into buildings, thus people slowly got the impression that it was OK?
It doesn't matter that there are well-educated evildoers, because it's much harder for evildoers to influence those who are well educated
No it isn't.
How many of the terrorists that perpetrated Tuesday's attacks were well educated, do you think? I'd warrant that their education was a bit skewed.
Current information indicates that several of them were degreed engineers. I realize that that fact does not mean they were 'educated' in the broader sense of the term but it does mean that they had some quantity of post high school work.
Last I checked (and yes, experts on terrorism agree), cracking down on civil liberties causes terrorism
Which experts agree? You are just making wild accusations without any shred of evidence.
Why do you think the U.S. exists in the first place?
Are you claiming that the founding fathers were terrorists? How many innocent lives did they take en route to establishing America?
Saying that no scarcity means no profit is flat-out wrong (ask any farmer (or for that matter, anyone who sells commodities)
You are holding up farmers as examples of savvy businessmen? If it weren't for government subsidies there would be no farmers. Why do they need government subsidies? Because the food they grow is in abundance.
Saying no profit means no stuff implies that the only profits are monetary
The only profit is monetary. You can't possibly claim that social motivations will be enough to get people to achieve greatness. How many failed experiments have to be conducted before you realize that economic systems based on social rewards are doomed to failure? How many people have to starve?
Go read a book on economics before you toss off about how capitalism works
I had to do that to get my degree, in Economics.
I've got advnaced degrees in economics as well
Sure you do buddy, I bet. You are just dripping with degrees aren't you?
Apache is a free web server, but it's running more than two thirds of all web sites
No it isn't. Just because Slashdot claims its so doesn't make it reality. I don't understand why people don't question the mainstream media outlets more often.
Parhaps you aren't familiar with these packages because you don't use them in your job
Neither does anyone else. They don't contain enough functionality to be of use for any actual work. Yeah, they are neat to look at and I agree that it is amazing that a bunch of people would create something so elaborate on a whim, but don't pretend that it is actually fit for real work. Thats why the stuff is distributed with the disclaimer that "This software is provided without any warranty of any kind, not even an assurance of fitness for use" or some other such fancy way of saying that it doesn't really work all that well.
He is a full blown communist. He enjoys things like Central Planning, Vodka, long lines for bread, and goose stepping. Thats why he doesn't identify himself as an American.
Also, please learn to spell license.
I can picture some $5/hour ticket agent spending late nights studying the faces of all known terrorists.
Thank you Mr. Monkey. There is little else to do what with Geekizoid down and such.
And 49% more will discount it once they see his photo.
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It was a meeting place for trolls? I thought it was a recipe-of-the-month club. You people hoodwinked me.
It can't? Thousands of years of the rule of law seems to be keeping people in line generally. People seem to be getting the idea that murder is wrong.
The Web is only a means of expression of the feelings and opinions of people
Ok
Personally, I'd rather see the diversity of opinions and mind-sets being expressed out in the open, rather than being suppressed by paranoid authorities
Why do you think the authorities are paranoid? They are a bit more security conscious than your average person but that is because they are supposed to be keeing us safe, they have to be. I think the paranoid ones are the people who think that their government is out to get them.
In my profession as an alternative health therapist
Of for fuck's sake, had I known this I would not have responded.
educate and empower people to heal and overcome the underlying pain which causes destructive manifestations.
Should we light some candles and sing together? Education is always touted as the great savior, it isn't. There are plenty of very well educated people who are just inherently evil.
Nothing but a process of education, instilling in people from an early age a sense of local and global accountability for their actions, desires and choices will make any real progress in preventing any future tragedies.
Actually, a major crackdown on civil liberties would accomplish the same. If people are just not allowed to do stupid things then stupid things won't happen.
Isn't it time we recognised the immense human benefits that can come from the freeing up of information?
Translation: I don't like having to pay for stuff. I'd really like to be able to steal it without any penalties.
Lets be realistic, no scarcity means no profit. No profit means no stuff. Yeah, you can hold up free software as an example of what can happen even if there is no profit, but free software is shit compared to its proprietary counterpart and everyone knows it. Stop trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.
I can just picture a bunch of geeks sitting around a filthy card table, the floor littered with HoHo wrappers:
Geek 1:"Dude, we need to code something up to play that Wolfenstein thing, it comes out this weekend. I'd do it but I'm still trying to get my sound card to work."
Geek 2:"I got a Star Trek convention to go to, I can't work on anything for at least a week."
Geek 3:"And I'm working on Token Ring support! There is one guy left on earth who uses it so of course we have to half ass support it."
Geek 1:"Theres a Star Trek convention?"
Geek 2:"Yeah, next weekend at the food court in the mall. I think a girl will be there."
Geek 1:"Really? Count me in, I still have my Spock outfit from last time."
Geek 3:"Fuck Token Ring, I'm in too."
And so goes the Linux support Team.
Further, such an approach would improve the signal to noise ratio by ensuring that communication was routed through approved vendors who would dispose of the chaff and provide us with the grain. Look at all of the misinformation that was spread on Slashdot during the days following the attacks. Most of that came from sources like Indymedia while the conventional outlets actually bothered to check the facts. I think we could all benefit if that sort of thing didn't happen again.
When word hits the street that Linux affords a completely untraceable and unrestricted means of communicating over the internet (unlike Windows, it has a serial number!), well, lets just say that Linus Torvalds has better not drop the soap.
Strict regulation of the web is exactly what is needed to combat the current climate of IP theft and illegal activities now rampant.
To which militia did Timothy McVeigh belong?
This is the best post I have read in 3 days.
Maybe VA could donate some stock, it could be used to mop the sweat from the brows of the rescue workers.
Acxtually, they are exactly as I might think because I have flown planes as small as Cessnas and as large as a Learjet 60. You think that because you know the basic mechanics of flight that you are qualified to write intelligently about flying commercial jets, typical Slashdot. It is different in all sorts of ways that matter if you plan to turn, or go up or down, or anything other than slam the plane into the ground. The bigger the plane the easier it becomes to overcorrect and get completely out of control.
As for putting a big jet down in the mud, do you have any idea how far a 767, traveling at just above stall speed, would go before it came to a stop? You realize that if a tree limb, a good sized rock, a fucking squirrel, punctured a fuel cell that everyone inside and everyone near the thing would be vaoprized?
Anyway, I'm bored with you so I'll let you wallow in your own ignorance. I hope someday you are able to test out your boundless stupidity by getting forced into the captain's chair of a 707, desperately looking for a 5000 yard long stretch of deep mud from 40,000 feet so you can put it down.
Dude, if someone left a large manilla envelope behind a toilet in Penn Station the whole damn place would be evacuated.
The standard police issue equipment is not the place to look if you want to get an idea of decent weapons and ammo. Most of those decisions are made in meetings. Thats why you can find countless stories of officers who get into shootouts, hit their target with 10 slugs, and the guy lives. Most departments issue 9mm softnose bullets of various makes, which is an absolutely abonimable cartridge for killing humans and absolutely does not belong on the hip of anyone interested in self defense. Most officers who know their stuff (and that is very few) replace the department issued sidearms with, at minimum, something chambered in 40 S&W, usually in 45ACP.
My self-defense gun is loaded with Glasers
I hope you never have to defend yourself. Mine carries 125 grain hollow points (its a 357 Mag). If I ever have to shoot at something I want it to die with the first shot, considering I'll probably be running like a bitch shortly after I fire.
I've probably fired about 100 rounds of Glaser ammo over the years at the range
I probably fired 500 rounds of various ammo last week.
so it needs to be handled carefully and replaced frequently
So that leads to your decision to use it as your carry ammo how?
But, oddly, that does not stop you from making ignorant suggestions. This reminds me of Tuesday, when the Slashbots were claiming that flying a commuter jet was the same as flying as Cessna, once you got it into the air.
You used a clip in an MP5 and got nice damage? How else would you have used it, as a single shot? Since you don't seem to know firearms too well, I'll assume you were using an Intertec 9 or some similarly low quailty disposable gangster gun. Pre-ban MP5s aren't too easy to come by unless you are SWAT, secret service, etc.
1 Glaser did an equivalent amount of damage. I shot from 7 yards, and a friend 5 yards behind me got hit by a piece of watermelon. Impressive.
A) 1 Glaser would not do an equivalent amount of damage as 30 rounds of 9mm. (I'm assuming 30 because the standard police issue MP5 clip holds 30). I could get pieces of watermelon to fly 5 yards using a BB gun. What you need to kill a person is penetration (to get to vital organs), something the Glaser round doesn't have.
As pro-firearms as I am I'm not convinced that they would be all that helpful during a hijacking. Any combat is likely to be close quarters, there is a high possibility of hitting innocent people, there is the liklihood of breaching the hull if you fire anything powerful enough to stop a human. A guy with a Taser would have much better luck.
Trying to explain economics to Slashbots is like trying to teach fish how to breath out of water.
I wouldn't worry too much about terrorism. The FAA has plans to limit passengers' ability to transport black holes on commercial airliners. All black holes with a diameter of more than 4 inches must be checked, not carried on.
.22LR Shotshells would not breach the hull of an aircraft, no even a Cessna.
Regardless, the hatred is mutual, and I don't even know who you are.