I carry a Leatherman in my pocket, not a screwdriver and pliers. Strangely enough, I also carry a PDA. And an iPod. And some flat-pack duct tape. And a couple flash lights.
Doing lots of things compactly is a good virtue for things one carries on one's person.
Yeah, it was good engineering. I hate battery doors on portable electronics that break off. Swapping AA's into my iPod is not my idea of fun. The portable hard drives work just fine.
You're making up problems. Sure, some people whine about their batteries dying. Replacements are readily available.
Oh, I see. So you're talking about the TRS-80 model 100, that came out after 1983. Great...that's cool...but it's not what we were talking about originally. Neat machine...still not a very good PDA.
The Newton was one of the first devices to bring together so much functionality into something the size of a paperback book. I think it was ahead of its time, and I definitely think it was far too expensive for its market niche. It was undisputably the most capable device of its type, and it really did form the genesis of the modern PDA.
I really think you're discounting the notion that good design can make for products that are more than the sum of their feature lists. The iPod isn't groundbreaking because it's a hard drive based MP3 player. It's groundbreaking because it radically simplifies the process of taking digital music with you.
You can tell it's radically different, partly because it was vastly more popular. (Not to say that popularity is a determinant of quality, but rapid increases in popularity tell you SOMETHING is going on...) I don't for a second believe that there's a marketing campaign that could have created that kind of popularity had the product not been really, really good to start with.
You might say "that's not innovation". Fair enough...I think it's a semantic argument, and I don't really feel the need to bicker with you over the terminology. I think that really great industrial design can make for innovative new products, even if the feature sheet is comparable to other devices.
Yeah, sharp wizards, electronic datebooks. OK. The Newton was a pretty unique device nonetheless, and far more capable than any other organizers that came before it. I think there's a good argument to be made that it was a superior device to most of the stuff available today.
It failed because it was crazy expensive, and wasn't on Steve Jobs' radar screen, not because it wasn't a groundbreaking device.
"It was EXTREMELY portable by the standards of 1983"
We're not talking about the standards of 1983. We're talking about the standards of PDAs. Therefore, by virtue of the fact that a TRS-80 wouldn't even fit in a reasonably sized knapsack, it wasn't a very good PDA.
If you'd like to re-define the term to include "things that are huge", well, OK. I don't think that's a very helpful re-definition.
You're making a completely different argument. Apple did, in fact, coin the term PDA. (I think it was CEO Sculley, as a matter of fact.)
Just because you can retroactively apply that label to other devices doesn't mean Apple didn't define the term.
Your parent's poster didn't say the Newton was the first "thing that could be described as a PDA" to the market, he says they defined the term. Which is true.
I'm having some difficulty trying to figure out how your TRS-80 has anything to do with a PDA, whose prime virtue is portability.
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Doesn't mean you have to be jealous.
I worked two jobs to get through college. It's hard. Doesn't mean I begrudge other people their success.
"people seem to presume that money is no object to everyone"
You brought that to the table, buddy.
I carry a Leatherman in my pocket, not a screwdriver and pliers. Strangely enough, I also carry a PDA. And an iPod. And some flat-pack duct tape. And a couple flash lights.
Doing lots of things compactly is a good virtue for things one carries on one's person.
One of the best features of the Treo 650 that I wasn't aware of until after I bought it:
All the system memory is non-volatile. I can pull the battery out for a day, pop it back in, and all my data is safe.
I'd rather be a rich wanker than a jealous, poor wanker.
I've got a Treo 650 too. It's a great device. It's usually in the pocket opposite my iPod.
If there existed one device that did all those things well, I'd own it. But there doesn't, so I don't.
How many people with PDAs carry around thirty 1GB flash cards?
Answer: Zero.
Where are these places on Earth where empathy solves poverty?
"may I be forever damned if I don't hate them."
Mmmmmkay. I'm sure that'll solve the problem.
I bought an iPod to listen to music, and if I were going to buy a Boxster, it'd be to drive it.
Fashion is irrelevant.
"But there was never a black ipod to bring it out."
The U2 iPod has been around almost as long as the 4G iPod.
I've been hearing the same thing about ATI for almost ten years now. Why would I start believing it now?
But the scratching is EXTREME! Like with Mountain Dew!
I fail to understand how making plastic thicker is going to decrease surface scratches, but I'm just a lowly engineer, not a lawyer.
That's OK. I'm pretty sure I could take him out with Pen Missile.
Yes, but the dates you provided were pretty confusing, hence my, um, confusion.
"the best they could hope to do is match American greed."
From a historical perspective, that's a pretty ignorant statement.
They are accountable...to their stockholders. I say we hold the stockholders responsible.
I think we should limit the limitation of liability.
Easy, Tiger! I wasn't bashin' nothing. I've seen TRS-80's, and I'd never seen one of these Model 100's.
It's all good, man! Deep breaths! : )
"Agreeded" is my new favorite word.
Yeah, it was good engineering. I hate battery doors on portable electronics that break off. Swapping AA's into my iPod is not my idea of fun. The portable hard drives work just fine.
You're making up problems. Sure, some people whine about their batteries dying. Replacements are readily available.
Oh, I see. So you're talking about the TRS-80 model 100, that came out after 1983. Great...that's cool...but it's not what we were talking about originally. Neat machine...still not a very good PDA.
The Newton was one of the first devices to bring together so much functionality into something the size of a paperback book. I think it was ahead of its time, and I definitely think it was far too expensive for its market niche. It was undisputably the most capable device of its type, and it really did form the genesis of the modern PDA.
I really think you're discounting the notion that good design can make for products that are more than the sum of their feature lists. The iPod isn't groundbreaking because it's a hard drive based MP3 player. It's groundbreaking because it radically simplifies the process of taking digital music with you.
You can tell it's radically different, partly because it was vastly more popular. (Not to say that popularity is a determinant of quality, but rapid increases in popularity tell you SOMETHING is going on...) I don't for a second believe that there's a marketing campaign that could have created that kind of popularity had the product not been really, really good to start with.
You might say "that's not innovation". Fair enough...I think it's a semantic argument, and I don't really feel the need to bicker with you over the terminology. I think that really great industrial design can make for innovative new products, even if the feature sheet is comparable to other devices.
So, the TRS-80 available in 1983 fit in a backpack?
No?
You're talking about something totally different. Sure, it's interesting that Tandy eventually built a portable computer. How many did they sell?
Yeah, sharp wizards, electronic datebooks. OK. The Newton was a pretty unique device nonetheless, and far more capable than any other organizers that came before it. I think there's a good argument to be made that it was a superior device to most of the stuff available today.
It failed because it was crazy expensive, and wasn't on Steve Jobs' radar screen, not because it wasn't a groundbreaking device.
"It was EXTREMELY portable by the standards of 1983"
We're not talking about the standards of 1983. We're talking about the standards of PDAs. Therefore, by virtue of the fact that a TRS-80 wouldn't even fit in a reasonably sized knapsack, it wasn't a very good PDA.
If you'd like to re-define the term to include "things that are huge", well, OK. I don't think that's a very helpful re-definition.
Why should I limit my preferences to technical advantages? I'm willing to pay for good design.
More to the point, why do you care what my preferences are? (for all values of "my" and "you"?)
Wait a tick.
You own Bang & Olufsen speakers, and you're criticizing other people for appreciating good design? Come on now.
"You guys (mac users) are way too emotional to be nerds"
Well, gee, guess you'll have to revoke my Nerd's Alliance membership card. What ever shall I do?
Good design has little to do with emotion, although it can indeed be evocative. Good design is an engineering discipline.
Oh, right, and the FBI would never do anything illegal, would they? The IRS has long been used to harass dissidents.
"it's a problem with your self-restraint "
Huh? I'm allowed to say offensive things. If my neighbor can't help shooting people who offend him, it's HIS self restraint that's at issue.
You're making a completely different argument. Apple did, in fact, coin the term PDA. (I think it was CEO Sculley, as a matter of fact.)
Just because you can retroactively apply that label to other devices doesn't mean Apple didn't define the term.
Your parent's poster didn't say the Newton was the first "thing that could be described as a PDA" to the market, he says they defined the term. Which is true.
I'm having some difficulty trying to figure out how your TRS-80 has anything to do with a PDA, whose prime virtue is portability.