Slashdot Mirror
iPod Nano Scratches Result In Suit
Evil W1zard writes "Earlier this week a class action lawsuit against Apple was filed claiming that the iPod Nano has a widespread propensity for scratching easily. The lawsuit alleges that Apple violated state consumer protection statutes, as well as express and implied warranties and charges that Apple knew that there were design problems with the Nano." From the article: "An Apple representative declined to comment on the suit, but Apple has stated that the Nano is made of the same polycarbonate material that's found in previous iPods and maintained that the scratching problem does not appear to be widespread. The lawsuit charges, however, that the Nano contains a thinner coating of resin than on previous iPod models."
"The amount and durability of the resin applied as a protective coating during the Nano manufacturing process is clearly defective in that it is not sufficient to adequately protect the face of the Nano from extreme scratching and ultimately irreparable damage," the lawsuit says.
Notice that this statement is meant to sound like Apple just rigged Grandma's respirator to fail due to shoddy workmanship. While there is certainly damage to the Nano, and the coating process is "clearly defective", I don't buy for a minute the last statment that the players are irrparably damaged. There are plenty ways that Apple can make good without paying a fucking nickle to these assholes.
Mind you, I am no Apple fanboy and am not against filing law suits when people are being scammed, but this suit is just one more reason to ship lawyers to the Moon to minimize contamination of the rest of the world's population.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
I didnt know you could just sue people for releasing a crappy product.
I guess Microsoft and ATI both owe me a few bucks.
So what product was it that said it best? Yeah, that's right, shampoo, rinse and repeat. Yawn.
./'rs were informed that Apple had agreed to fix the nanos with a faulty screen due to manufactures.We all know that its tiny and get stuck places normal ipods never have.
On the 29th of September
Civilization, the death of dreams.
Maybe if people didn't spend all their time "stress testing" them with their cars.....3
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nano.ars/
the Nano contains a thinner coating of resin than on previous iPod models
Yes, well, the nano ITSELF is thinner than previous iPod models...
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
It's obvious that these screens can scratch. It's exposed to everything that's in your pocket.
PDA users have had this problem for a long time, which is why there are brisk sales for PDA screen protectors.
<sarcasm>I guess my only question is why they aren't going after those bastard manufacturers who make the plastic and metal items that are responsible for scratching the iPod nanos.</sarcasm>
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
call for mega lawsuits!
... Have anything better to worry about? I mean, we jump when our MP3 players scratch, but major issues like voting, the environment, and the homeless are all just glossed over as something too complicated to worry about, or not worth the effort. I am not trying to flame anyone in particular, since if, indeed Apple produced a shoddy practice they should be held accountable. SOmetimes, I just feel as if people don't realize there is more to life then a little piece of plastic and silicon.
But I'm new here...
Please remind me to sue Nescafe for my injuries due to their coffee being hot. Also, I'd like to sue God for the sunburn he gave me. Likewise, I must sue Taco for the eye damage that the Games pages causes. Furthermore, there is the lawsuit against Taco for my Slashdot addiction.
Looks like I found step 3. Profit, here I come. w00t!!!
I think the iPod scratches way too easily. Come on Apple, there are many different plastic advancements out there...Think different and listen to comsumers.
I haven't worn a cheap watch since I started programming professionally, but I do seem to remember a $10-15 dollar Casio that had some "liquid crystal" face on it that was, though probably a market-speak term, nearly impossible to scratch.
Is there a reason NASDAQ:APPL didn't use this for their great Nano product?
By the way I bought 14 Nanos the day they came out for family and friends -- and DON'T regret it, they're truly innovative!
If you "get" pointers add me as a friend (116)!
Part of it is their fault. When they found out that part of their inventory was faulty, they should have immediately issued a recall for all products with that particular problem. If it was really less than 1% of the Nanos sold, then this shouldn't have been that big of a deal to do.
Their failure to issue a recall, and to basically ignore the problem, opened them up to these sorts of lawsuits, and more importantly to a PR hit.
Too lazy to go out and sue whatever it is that's scratching the screens...
Unless Apple advertised the screens as unscratchable, WTF kind of legal leg do plaintiffs even have to stand on?
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
"An Apple representative declined to comment on the suit, but Apple has stated that the Nano is made of the same polycarbonate material that's found in previous iPods"
So they MUST have known it scratched really easily....
As an owner of an ipod nano I can attest to it being easily scratched. I had it not only 1 week and it seemed like its been thrown around for months, since then Ive been trying to buy a case for it but the local apple store is always sold out. Yes it scartches easily, but it still plays music, which is the reason I bought it, to listen to mp3s. Its not worth the time effort and money to get into a lawsuit with apple over!
GL HF!
They just put a regular iPod in a cloner and reduced the scale. If you put a Nano in your cloner and increase the scale back to normal, the resin layer will compensate.
No sig for you!!
Did anyone else have to read this headline four or five times?
I finally got it, though. Someone had their iPod in their suit, which managed to scratch their results.
What if I do the same thing, and I do get different results?
Materials aside, these scratching problems seem symptomatic of a big step backwards in design. The iPod mini that the nano replaced was built from tough, brushed aluminum that stayed beautiful even after months in a pocket with change and car keys.
(I [heart] my iPod mini.)
Mind you the article says that they're suing Apple because the scratches can get so severe it prevents one from seeing the screen. If that is the case in ALL of these "scratch" cases, sure, Apple should replace it. Notice how Apple is replacing the Nanos with cracked screens.
However, I seriously doubt that with REGULAR USE (meaning under normal conditions) wear and tear is such that majority of these Nanos actually can't see the screen.
TANSTAAFL
This is just silly. If you bought, and you scratched it, it's your problem, not Apple's. Buy a frickin' Nano-tube for crying out loud!
geeks are cats who dig a certain kind of cool
My cellphone scratches easily too. Common sense people. Thats why companies sell aftermarket ipod covers. Another frivolous lawsuit. Please move along. :)
This is my signature.
The lawsuit seemed somewhat legitimate until I read this little gem at ipodnn.com http://www.ipodnn.com/news/05/10/21/ipod.nano.laws uit/
I can understand there might be a problem with scratches. Every product isn't perfect, but all this will do is give everyone in the suit a few $$$ or a free case or something, and the bottom feeding lawyers will make a huge pile of cash. Idiots.
WWJD -- What Would Jimi Do?
(Smash amp, burn guitar, take home the groupies)
Unless, of course, the didn't know which 1% was susceptible.
Your courageous and selfless spelling corrections have made me a better person.
Apple said anyone who felt the issue was big enough would repair or replace the Nano at no charge ...
what else do these jerkoffs want?
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
All the people I know ( about 10) that have the nano, including myself, have scratches all over including the metal plate on the back. I used mine for about 3 days and it has been sitting on my desk ever since. It seems to get scratches if you breathe on it funny or if dust should settle on it. Also, go to your local Apple store and see how many they have in pristine condition. Nano...good concept, less than stellar execution...
The gates in my computer are AND, OR and NOT; they are not Bill.
I got a ridiculous amount of hits to my blog posting from a couple of weeks ago where I cleaned the scratches off my nano with Brasso. Actually, I got the idea from the original slashdot thread on the nano scratching issues.
My take: the nano doesn't scratch more than a normal iPod, but it's so small that you're tempted to pocket it, causing more scratches than you would get in the un-pocketable full-size iPods. I see that with the new iPods w/video Apple is now including a *really* basic (fabric?) case. Maybe that was a response to all the talk about the nano. I do think that the nano needs some sort of screen protector or case in order to stay scratch free. I made mine from some old PDA screen protectors.
- "When you want something with all your heart, the entire universe conspires to give it to you" -Paulo Coelho
I just want to say "thanks" to Apple for having the guts to continue innovating and doing what was previously unthinkable -- reaching deals with music and entertainment industry to change the way consumers use entertainment media FOREVER.
The Nano may have a defect or two, but it is still an extremely good product that I'm proud to own.
So, again, in the midst of all this negativity, just an honest heartfelt thanks for the job Jobs has done these past few years.
Thanks Apple!
If you "get" pointers add me as a friend (116)!
I can't tell; is this sarcasm or fanaticism?
This would be the second problem that the nano has had, already apple has had to replace nanos when the screens actually cracked. How is this not their fault; they put their name on the product, so it's up to them to make sure that it works properly.
Waah Waah Waah.. What a bunch of pussies. Apple should countersue based on the case of them being whiny little bitches. Electronics get scratched.. so what. It is called "wear and tear" for something! Do it still work after being scratched? Is the display readable after being scratched? Geez...
I took a quick look through the product page for the Nano and I didn't see any mention of it.
I bought 14 Nanos and they all work great.
Yeah, if I put one in my backpack along with sharp metallic objects and go hiking 3 days, it'll probably get a scratch or two.
How dare you claim the Nanos don't "work properly".
They're amazing razor thin devices that have changed the way humans listen to personal music FOREVER.
If you "get" pointers add me as a friend (116)!
I'd be more concerned with the fact that the battery is soldered onto the unit! Of course, before the rechargable battery's worn out, you'll buy the IPod Pico ... and a magnifying glass.
[Insert pithy quote here]
A company is a group of people, therefore are is correct, tard!
All caps is an AMAZING way to get your point across!
It is NOT annoying!
When you truly EMPHASIZE what you type, sometimes the price to pay is a bit of negative talk from a loser mimicking everything you say; in this case, me.
People really could stand to take better care of their stuff. I've had a 4G iPod for more than a year now, and there are hardly any scratches on it at all. It's simply a matter of being responsible and not tossing your precious electronic devices into a pile of nails and scorpions. In my opinion, this lawsuit is ridiculous and should be thrown out.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
I just read an article here: http://www.dcmilitary.com/airforce/beam/10_42/nati onal_news/37782-1.html
We can now have see-thru and amazingly durable products using aluminum.
Apple should do that for those of us geeks buying their products.
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of see-thru aluminum iPods that lets you watch them operate!
If you "get" pointers add me as a friend (116)!
Very soft felt, the kind you'd use to clean the most delicate of surfaces leaves damage on Nano's that looks like what would happen if you rubbed it on a slightly sandy floor, and it permanently obscures the screen, so I'd say it was an issue.
I got my nano a few weeks ago, and managed to avoid all problems with screen scratches by using a screen protector bought for my palm pilot. I had to trim the protector to fit on the nano, but it's barely noticeable that it's on there and I have not had a single scratch on the screen.
True, I shouldn't have to do that; maybe Apple should have used a better material for the screen. In the end I see this as another frivolous lawsuit that's destroying this country.
Does the law even need to get involved in this? I do not own an iPod nano, so I cannot comment on the validity of the claim. But assuming that the screens are crap and are more easily scratched than they should be, isn't this problem easily fixable by capitalism?
If your product is less than satisfactory, your sales suffer, and you're punished by lower revenue than expected. Isn't it just that simple? As a consumer, it's your responsibility to know what you're spending your money on. If it's a crappy product, and you choose to purchase it, it's your fault.
do the scratches prevent operation of unit or cut it's life short?
NODRTA.
RTFA, maybe spend 1 minute with Google, and you'd know the answer to your question.
Knowingly releasing a defective item is not legal, when the defect in question results in irreparable damage to a core function of the product or presents an undisclosed hazard to consumers. There are implied warranties with any product that goes to market, that have the full force of law behind them.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
McDonalds corporation has been sued because people who eat quarter pounders three times a day get fat.
Oh, wait. This happened already.
Seriously, people. Just don't put your nanos in your pocket along with the car keys and you'll be fine. I hope plaintiffs get their ass handed to them by Apple lawyers.
You can actually SUE someone because their product scratches easily!?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The story is a dupe, the topic is boring, the facts weren't checked. WE GET IT!!
OMFG! Where do I begin?
1. Every iPod I own has gotten scratches.
2. If you don't like scratches, get a case.
3. If you already have scratches, try Brasso or iCleaner. I've tried both and they work well.
Bottom line, scratches are the responsiblity of the owner. GM won't replace your car if YOU scratch it, so why should Apple pay up if your iPod gets scratched. Meaning that if you own an iPod Nano, it's YOUR fault that you have scratches. Please deal with it in a way that does not involve the justice system as it is NOT their problem.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Most people can be upset about the price of oil, the degradation of the environment, the war, natural disasters, AND shitty product design.
However, if you're the same troll we used to call "barcode" at Planet Crap (is that site still around?), then you wouldn't understand anyway.
Cheers.
Clearly, Apple should have provided guidelines to help keep everyone's iPod Nanos from getting scratched. I guess it falls to me to provide this valuable public service:
3 . / show/70's_badluck.wav.
1. Do not keep iPod Nano in the same pocket as your keys.
2. Do not run over iPod Nano with your car: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nano.ars/
3. Do not use iPod Nano to scratch off your lottery tickets. Invest in a quarter, instead.
4. Do not keep iPod Nano in the same pocket as your keys, dumbass: http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/tombstone/839
5. Do not gnaw nervously on iPod Nano.
and finally...
6. Maybe think about investing in a $20 ultra-thin case for iPod Nano: http://www.speckproducts.com/nano-skintight.html.
FWIW, in my experience, there are two kinds of people in this world. Those who know how to take care of personal electronics and those who casually throw their new toys in with their spare change. I've had the same iPod for almost 2.5 years now. Still runs fine, still without scratches, and I've taken it jogging, biking, to work, to the bathroom, across state lines, etc. I guess some people just can't have nice things.
Car Dents Result in Suit
People who drive their new cars on the road have begun filing class action lawsuits against major automotive companies such as Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota and Honda claiming that their vehicles are getting damaged when getting into accidents. Ford has responded by saying, "Well, maybe if these idiots knew how to drive without hitting things..."
Complaining about a few scratches?!? How about running over it twice with a car and still playing music on it?
People are being too obsessive about the "status" the iPod gives the owner, and not realizing that it's a damn solid product.
IWARS.
People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
...welcome our Fsc King overlord.
If a baby duck is a "duckling," why would anyone want to eat "dumplings?"
I bought an iPod nano since they first started shipping and I don't have one scratch on it. It's black too, so scratches would be more visible.
I don't keep it in the same pocket as I do with keys, or other objects. I also run an hour daily, and the nano's in my hand/pocket during this time.
I don't know how people treat their nano - I'm somewhat alarmed at all this. It's an electronic product: treat it as such.
I suppose this isn't the best article in which to pimp my free iPod nano referral link.
:-D
But it will still get me a slice of the class action settlement!
Oh yeah, and see my sig for more details.
My heart bleeds for the little rich kids who are pissed off that their expensive plastic toys don't look as nice as they did when they first came out of the box! Never mind that the world is full of people who can't even drink clean/safe water every day...
Honestly, I'm not trying to say that people should spend their money buying sanitation systems for poor African countries, but fuckin' A, people, let's keep things in perspective!
Apple has attracted a group of people that place an inordinate value on aesthetics. This isn't the first grumbling we've heard from the faithfull. Remember the Apple Cube and people complaining about "cracks" (small imperfections in the plastic) in the case? Now it's that the nano can get scratches in the screen. This is the price that Apple pays by attracting people that only seem to care about aesthetics. When something goes wrong with the aesthetics the faithfull scream their heads off.
AccountKiller
Don't want it to scratch or become damaged? Leave it in the box then, otherwise it's called being used/wear and tear. God what the hell ever happened to common sense? Nothing will remain in it's original state with usage.
When they said the nano was redesigned from scratch, I guess they weren't kidding.
Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.
Ive been trying to buy a case for it but the local apple store is always sold out.
1. Sell faulty product
2. Sell expensive protectors.
3. Profit !!!!
7. Do not taunt "Happy Fun Ball".
s/you/how/ in the last sentence.
Part of it is their fault. When they found out that part of their inventory was faulty, they should have immediately issued a recall for all products with that particular problem. If it was really less than 1% of the Nanos sold, then this shouldn't have been that big of a deal to do. Their failure to issue a recall, and to basically ignore the problem, opened them up to these sorts of lawsuits, and more importantly to a PR hit.
Recalls typically only happen when an identified defect in a product is such that damage to life or property could happen and it's the percentage of affected products is very high or unknown. That why you typically see this with cars and devices like batteries which could potentially catch fire or explode.
Moreover, Apple's warranties typically state that cosmetic damage is not covered, only hardware issues that affect the functionality of the unit would be replaced under warranty. Cosmetic issues can be addressed, only at the user's cost. Apple should not be faulted because people cannot be bothered to read their user's manual or warranty.
Back in the day, I don't remember hearing about people complaining about their gameboys getting scratched up. And I've seen some pretty awful looking gameboys. Of course, there was no slashdot back then, so maybe there was a class action suit and I just wasn't aware.
So a while back Chyrsler was sued by a group of consumers becuse the paint Chrysler cars had a tendancy to chip and cause rust on the car. Thankfully consumers won the case which allowed me and many other folks to recieve compensation to repaint our cars. Now a lot of neysays could have made the arguement that I should have covered my car everytime I parked, or I shouldn't drive when its raining out, or its my fault that some random pebble dinging my car on the highway and caused a huge a patch of rust. The problem is car paint should chip and cause rust through normal use. While the car warrenty doesn't gureentee the paint job will survive 5 years, the warente does essentially state that the car will be maintained under normal use condition. I don't see how this is any different for an ipod. People purchase an ipod nano for its small size and portability. There is no reason why users should have to buy a big bulky screen becuase this goes against the impled purpose of the product. A shitty protectant, just like a shitty paint job, is an important drawback from the product. If uses had known how sensative it is to scratch Im sure many people wouldnt have bought it. I just feel there is a lot of people on this list talking trash aobut people who are complaining - Im guessing most of them don't have a ipod nano. Its like they say, "if you dont know, then you dont know"
OMG, not another iPod suit!!!
Old people fall. Young people spring. Rich people summer and winter.
If you think scratched iPods are a problem, don't buy an iPod. If you already bought one because they're freakin' awesome and you had to have one so the cool kids wouldn't make fun of you, take it back, and tell all of your friends that they suck. Seriously, you don't sue the company, and you definitely don't deserve a share of their profits.
I used to carry a bottle of whiskey for snake bite. And two snakes. -Nefarious Wheel
I've never had an iPod that scratched like my nano does. I have tons of scratches around the click wheel from my thumb. A device made to run your fingers on should not be scratched from your finger. If you can lightly run the soft pad of your thumb accross the plastic and leave easy to see scratches, then it is made wrong.
Think im gonna look up how to join this suit.
There's an article here on how to remove all scratches using some Brasso. Sheesh. Also just google for IPOD and BRASSO. And next time people treat it as though it were a tiny delicate piece of hightech equipment - oh wait, it is! I know, I know, people expect these to be like walkmen that can take anything you throw at them, but that is not expressed or implied by apple. C'mon people, the tech revolution has only been in full swing for a bit over a decade, everything isn't super-idiot-proof yet. Remember when we used to treat technology with a fair amount of respect and defference? It still demands at least a little bit. Treat it as though you spent $250 on it, cuz you did. And no, spending that much on something doesn't mean it should be indestructible, it just means it was expensive.
-- I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. It's not my fault that life sucks so much. --
Waa waa waa. We are so lucky to be a nation where we can fritter away our time crying about a scratch on our IPODs! Try being a citizen of some African nation that's been ravaged by AIDS, or some poor schmuck whose entire family was buried underneath a pile of rubble in that earthquake last week. We don't have to worry about invasion from the outside, we can destroy ourselves from the inside out with this kind of collective thinking as a nation. Someone owes me for this hurt. I'm gonna sue. That's the American way.
The basis of the lawsuit, which they will have to prove, is that benign usage causes damage. If Apple has made a product that is damaged such that a core function is impaired when used as designed, then the lawsuit is perfectly reasonable because doing that is illegal.
Also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed but there are two camps: those that claim their nanos don't have any problems, and those that say their screens scratch easily. Given that there are large numbers of both, I think the only reasonable conclusion that some percentage of nanos have a flaw that exposes them to damage. If the flaw is as bad as it seems, there would be virtually no unaffected users if it were uniform.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
I have been considering getting a Nano because of all the articles I see about beaing the sh*t out of them. I've also read the reviews in which people complain about the scratchability of the Nano. Don't care. If I really can toss it in my pocket with my keys and change or in the center console of my car, that's what I want. If it falls out and still works, that's what I want.
My Creative Zen has some scratches and dings on it and they don't concern me in the least. What does concern me, is the fact that it survived getting the scratches and dings and still works flawlessly.
I want to get a small in size and (relatively) big (in capacity) MP3 player that I can use only for Audible.com audio books. I want to have a seperate player for these because it's kinda funny to listen to one that has both music and speech on random. The first couple times it happens. Then it sucks. Imagine driving along rocking out with the Doors and then getting chapter 7 of the DaVinci Code.
considering that it's not being scratched by the freakin' air, you have to do "something" to it to scratch it. Pay attention, find out what that it, stop doing that. problem solved.
I'm no apple fanboy, but not a big fan of idiots either.
I think you stumbled on the answer to this whole Nano-scratch debacle!
See, people who purchase Nanos are rich, thereby increasing the odds that they will have diamonds annd sapphires bouncing around in their pockets with their mp3 players!
You know what?
Every piece of consumer electronics I've ever bought has acquired scratches. Sometimes I have no idea *how* - I'm not in the habit of wiping abrasives across my laptop screen, but there's a big-ass scratch on it anyway - but it happens. Unless they want the cases to be made from diamond or something, and pay the premium for that, maybe they should grasp the concept that if they put a small, smooth-faced object in a pocket with other items and walk around all day, there's a chance said object may come out with some superficial surface damage. Otherwise, spend the five bucks on a screen protector and shut the fuck up.
You must think in Russian.
For those who care I posted the complaint (from PACER) here:
http://www.fienx.net/5-05-cv-04244-RS.001.pdf 31pg, 2.08MB PDF
iPod Nano And Keys In Suit Pocket Result In Scratches?
You can no longer Sue McDonald's For Making You Fat.
The first time I got an iPod, it got scratched, quickly. I got a cover and haven't had a problem since. Stuff gets scratched, fact of life. My Laptop is scratched. My phone is scratched. My glasses are scratched. My car is scratched. My chair is scratched. Hell, if you want it to not get scratched, get some protection for it and watch how you handle it. Common sense. Don't eat lots of high-caloric food, you don't get fat, don't have a cover on your iPod? It gets scratched.
Whine-whine-whine. Resin is there to prevent scratching during shipping and any remaining is there out of kindness.
I've had the same iPod for almost 2.5 years now. Still runs fine, still without scratches
I have an original iPod, too. Never took any precautions to prevent scratching, so it's scratched all over, but I don't care. Still runs fine.
Let's apply this to something truly deserving of a class-action lawsuit:
It Hasn't Got A Single Scratch. Not One.
It looks as new as when I got it. That proves it's feasible to design something fashionable, affordable and durable.
Like it or not, Apple is using the fashion appeal of iPods as a selling point. Look at the iPods advertisements: shiny!, not scratched.
1. Show shiny iPod advertisements to a judge
2. Show the video where Jobs pulls an iPod out of his pocket
3. Do the same with a brand new iPod in front of the judge
4. Show the now scratched device to the judge
5. Win the case.
This one is going to cost Apple dearly. And that's a good thing because we'll eventually have better iPods as a result.
Check out this protector. Damn. I know what I'm getting for my next iPod. The current one I have, which looks like a giant condom, works well enough for now.
You know what the lawyer said after presenting his argument?
iRestMyCase
- or maybe only in UK courts, where lawyers do dress like that...
Shh! It's an industry secret, but they've finally come up with a surefire iPod killer!
Hey, my cell phone has some scratches on it. I guess I better run out and sue Motorola too!
Re-reading my own comment, I see that it could be construed as recommending that humans have sex with many bonobos, which is not what I was trying to say. Oh, well.
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
You want to free up enough wealth to feed the homeless? HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ECONOMIC PROMISES. Don't let them lie, cheat or steal. You know why poor people are poor, diffusion of responsibility. It is the first greatest enemy of wealth. Apple should be held accountable, and if they won't own up themselves, then the instruments of the people's will embodied in the process of government should FORCE them to. This means they won't have to buy another mp3 player or something else to replace that lost happieness in their lives. As someone who does support my local charities, I get very little out of it other than knowing I did my small part of something that needs doing. And if I'm not happy, and I don't have the drive to engage as vigorously in other economic activity that allows me to help support them, they suffer. And while you might not understand my desire to listen to any NFL game I want every weekend, or carry every TMBG song with me (live versions and "b-sides" included) that doesn't mean that ability takes away the opportunity for other social goods. In fact, it indirectly creates those opportunities.
And by the way, anyone who has thought anything about the problem of social ills knows the best way to save the most people the cheapest is to invest heavily in space, energy and geology.
My job's crap, my sex life's crap, I lack the motivation to do anything about it. Can someone recommend a lawyer so I can sue someone? Can someone tell me who I should sue? Anyone else in the same boat? We could get together for a class action suit.
I got one. Put it in my pocket and flew home. Then I showed it to my wife, it was less than 24 hours old. Her first reaction was, "it looks second-hand. Why is so scratched?" I checked my pocket for sand, but there was nothing special.
Still, I think it is way cool and I use it all the time when I travel. Wish it was built into my phone.
Remember, let the buyer beware. If I had waited another week I would have known to buy some sort of protective cover. Sueing is definitly not for protecting trivial amounts discretionary spending.
I bought one the day it came out, and was delighted by it's thinness, it's sexiness... But within a day, just sitting loose in my pocket with nothing else in it, it was scratched up more than my 4th gen 40 had gotten in over a year. So, I went to return it to the Apple store, and they charged me a 10% restocking fee. :(
-- Jinsaku
So, just to be clear, we're talking about an MP3 player still, right?
Begs the question:
If scratched, DOES IT STILL PLAY MUSIC LIKE YOU EXPECTED IT TO DO WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE THING?
bujeebus.
because gosh darn, it has suffered irreparable damage. Other watches are scratch resistant, why not swatch? Wait, it still does tell time. And the scratches don't prohibit me from using it. Does a scratched Nano still play music? Can you read the screen? I mean, It is a MUSIC player. It isn't advertised as a scratch proof lump of material. I agree, This potential class action suit is bullshit. Too many lawyers, not enough common sense. I mean, couldn't one just return the damn thing?
Instead of filing a lawsuit, these people should invest in a good shrink to treat your Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Ok, I have to ask...Given how recently the iPod mini was introduced, how are you going through so many? Are they breaking, or are you just buying new ones because you just like new toys, so you buy new iPod mini's when you need a new toy fix.
If you are buying them when the old ones are still good, I can understand that. It's a new millenium, men can like shopping too. If you are buying them because of problems with the old ones, I have to wonder what is going wrong with them. Are you unusually rough on them, or are they just really delicate.
The creative Muvo that my 1 1/2 year old has had for the last 6 months is holding up fine. I would be suprised if the apple product were dramatically less durable.
This is a small device that's intended to be pocketed, and it should have been designed to withstand the expected insult. Add to this the fact that the way the iPod *looks* is a huge part of why people want to buy it, and I think this might be a legitimate case.
If falling autumn leaves were enough to scratch the hell out of your new car, you'd probably be upset with the car manufacturer, and even more upset with people who tell you that you should have wrapped the whole thing in plastic.
Um, just a nitpick, but the people you are referring to are mostly trend-whores who wanted iPods for the 'coolness factor.' The Apple 'faithful' are more attracted to their products because of user-friendliness and reliability. We're not typically bothered by minor cosmetic damages unless there are quite a lot of them when we first receive the product. We consider the aesthetics to be a nice bonus, but not important enough to be involved in a bloody stupid lawsuit over.
By reading this you acknowledge that you have read it.
First off, suggesting "liquid crystal" makes a watch face unscratchable... liquid crystal is the LC in LCD, it's not the face of the watch, it's the display, and there is nothing hard about it. It's behind glass. Pinch an LCD hard enough and that liquid crystal will spooge out and no longer work.
Even worse is the reply that "sapphire crystals are better for hardening the display" earned a "5 insightful" mod. WTF?
That's the crystal fragment in the watch's oscillator, used to keep time. If your watch face was made out of a semi precious gem, it would probably be rather expensive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillators.
What's up with doing free association of ideas and then sharing your brain dump like it's a collection of facts? Sheesh.
Hardness is also not "inherently expensive."
In any case, I'd rather have an iPod with a relatively soft plastic outside that scratches, but can be polished, rather than a glass (or wtf, gem) iPod that cracked or shattered.
People are getting defensive over a defect in an Apple product, and are telling people it is their fault and not Apple's.
Now there is a new one! *Cough* Now if it was a Microsoft or a non-Apple branded product......
...cover it in Transparent Aluminium.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
When will we see a Rolex edition of the iPod? Nice gold or platnium case, sapphire screen face (extremely scratch resistant), etc. I suppose people would cry that thier iPod cost $7,000 then.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
You didn't even bother to research whether sapphire is used for watch faces or not, because even a cursory Google search would have found out that it is. Why don't you try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapphire, under "synthetic sapphire for non-gemstone applications"?
And yes, you'll only find this on watches starting around $800 minimum; that's why it's not practical on an iPod! Which was the point of my post, at least.
As for your contention that hard materials are not expensive, can you please present an appropriate counter-example?
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
What a wonderful world we live in. A gun dealer can misplace a sales receipt, forget to do the background check, and when the schizo-felon buyer takes out a busload of school kids, no suit for the gun dealer. But get one scratch on an iPod, man, and you're in trouble. My bet is, Apple doesn't want bad publicity for its new sales champ, so they'll offer a handsome settlement, and that's what these fakers are after.
It's kind of a stupid law suit, but at the same time, I'm glad to see it. Maybe Apple will finally fix the iPod's all-around poor design. It looks pretty for a couple seconds, but once you take it out of the box, it gets scratched almost instantly and everything seems to stick to it. And would a removable battery be so hard? Eh, oh well. Next time I buy an MP3 player, it won't be an iPod, unless they fix some of the design issues.
I've had the same iPod for almost 2.5 years now. Still runs fine, still without scratches, and I've taken it jogging, biking, to work, to the bathroom, across state lines, etc.
Is there something about crossing geographical boundaries that normally scratches your consumer electronics? Or are you crossing hanging beneath the axles of HGVs, illegal immigrant style?
Has anyone seen the Nano advertisements where it's being placed in a jeans pocket?
I think that if the screen gets substantially scratched after only a couple of days doing this, then there is a good argument for false advertising. (personally I don't have one, but I've heard numerous stories where scratches start to affect display quality)
I have an Audiovox SMT 5600 candybar smartphone, and after 1yr and plenty of abuse, I don't have a single scratch on the screen. I doubt any exotic materials are being used... so I would guess Apple just needs to find another material.
so your ipod is scratched; big fucking deal. Guess what, stuff accumulates wear & tear when you use it. Who are you going to sue when your hair starts falling out - your parents?
I owned a pair of "scratch-proof" glasses. Putting those glasses in your pocket with your keys will, as I learned, still scratch them. Same with nano.
I wouldn't fear putting a nano in my pocket, but I wouldn't put it in there with change, car keys, or other things. Just like I wouldn't do the same for a Gameboy Micro or PSP (if I could fit it in there).
"Sufferin' succotash."
No, the crystal in the watch oscillator would be a quartz crystal. The word "crystal" is also used to refer to the clear window over the hands and/or display of a watch, and I believe that the word was used that way long before the invention of the crystal-controlled electronic oscillator, let alone its application to clocks and watches. When discussing watches, "sapphire crystal" refers to a window on the front which is made from sapphire, which is much harder than ordinary glass or plastic, and is thus more scratch-resistant. It has nothing to do with the crystal-controlled oscillator in an electronic watch. A wind-up mechanical watch can have a sapphire crystal, too.
I can't say for sure whether a plastic display window would survive the kind of punishment that it would take to shatter a sapphire watch crystal, but a good sapphire watch crystal is probably a lot more durable thay you seem to think. It takes a pretty hard hit to break one. I don't think that knocking around in your pocket with a few coins or a keychain would be too likely to harm one unless you took a really hard fall. Based on my experience with watches with sapphire or glass crystals, it seems to me that an impact that's strong enough to shatter a good, thick sapphire watch crystal may also bend a plastic display window enough to damage the display underneath it, even if the plastic window didn't crack.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Great I can finally sue BMW for making a car that gets scratches in the parking lot.
Seriously, if I bought a Nano and it scratched unusually, I would return it in a second.
If the store would not take it back, then I would go to my credit card company and have the charge reversed under my buyer protection plan. Then it is them vs. the manufacturer, not me.
There is no need for a lawsuit here... this is foolish.
Don't use cotton to clean the plastic, as the cotton is abrasive and will cause scratches.
And be protected from virii too!
Most of the comments here are bashing people about complaining. I have a Motorola v220 cell phone. It stays in my pocket all the time. The screen is not noticeably scratched. I've had it for over a year. For the first two days I had my nano, I kept it in my pocket at times. It is so scratched from those two days that much of its visual appeal is lost. It was only scratched by the fiber in the pockets. This is a result of cheap material. If Apple spends a little bit more for protection of the screens, they will have happy customers (and won't be getting sued). To all of you who think I should have had a case, I couldn't. All local stores were sold out of the Apple skins, and there weren't any 3rd party cases available yet.
"What a chicken shit way to attack my post."
It ceased to be your post when you clicked Submit!
and then get sued when one shatters in your pocket? I'll take scratchy plastic thank you...
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
The more you pay for something, the more you expect form it - and these gadgets are expensive! If you pay a premium price, you should expect a premium product.
Also, look at the Apple ads that Apple put out showing a Nano nestled in a jeans change-pocket. If that's not Apple condoning the pocketing of the Nano as appropriate usage, what is?
The argument to "just buy a case" is silly. A case conceals the aesthetics of a product that is priced so highly because of its desirable aesthetics.
I don't own a Nano, but I can easily see why people are getting worked up about Nano scratches.
All of them. You know what? It's a fucking VIDEO ipod. Scratches ARE a big deal. Even more so on a small screen. Most everYone here would shit a brick to get a laptop with a dead pixel. The fact is, there is something wrong with the screens. Based on my experience, Apple treats consumers like shit. People know who have experienced this know this. Why waste time trying to reason? I swear most Apple customers act like co-dependants. They get the shit kicked out of them and happily, gladly come back for more. Think about it, what if this were a Microsoft product. The reaction would be unquestionably different.
Apple settled the battery lawsuit, with a $50 voucher and extra warranty. A lot less than what the Nano suit is asking for (a portion of profits?).
The battery lawsuit was a bit nutty -- I have an 1G iPod from 2001 that still runs to this day with the original battery. Yes, it's down to about 2 hours capacity from 8, but claims about it only lasting 18 months were unfounded. There are many different rechargable devices out there, and they *all* degrade over time. The real problem was that Apple did not have an official battery replacement program, they relied on aftermarket providers. The lawsuit hit, and amusingly, Apple had a replacement program within a short number of weeks (which probably was in the works beforehand).
As for the Nano, I have one, yes in my pocket, yes my screen is a bit scratched, but no more than my other iPods, and it's still very legible.
-Stu
Buy A Cover Fucka'
My daughter has a black iPod nano. She carried it around for three days like it was a newborn child, trying desperately to keep it from scratching. It has scuffs all over it. We eventually bought Invisible Shield which is a plastic applique that covers the iPod nano. What a pain in the butt to apply. So tedious. But the iPod is protected now. No more scratches. I don't like the fact that the click wheel is covered. The skin interferes with the tactile feedback of the click wheel, but wouldn't you know Invisible Shield just came out with a skin that has a hole cut out for the wheel... Such is the life of an early adopter.
Apple was clueless in this case. They released a product that scratched easily. One would think that making lab techs walk around with the iPods in their pockets would be part of the product testing. When complaints hit a fevered pitch Apple offered to fix the worst of the lot, but told everybody else to go buy protective coverings like the ones that would soon be available by Apple . That was utter gall. They offered a solution that wasn't even available yet and one that would cost people more money. Invisible Shield set me back an additional $20 and I shouldn't have had to pay for that to protect the product. I walk around with my Zire in my pocket all the time with only minimal scuffs after over a year. The nano was picking up scuffs at an alarming rate in comparison.
Still, suing Apple for part of the profits just shows the real intent of the suit.
The Splintered Mind - Overcoming
The "usability" is probably the single biggest reason I ended up buying an iPod - despite waiting through 3 generations of them before breaking down and getting one. The other players with similar storage capacity simply weren't as versatile or usable! There are FAR more iPod accessories made than for all the other players out there, combined! Want to use your player as a temporary holding space for a bunch of digital photos? Want to stick a microphone on top of it and use it as a voice recorder? Want it to seamlessly interface with your Alpine car stereo? It's Apple iPod or zilch.
Not to mention, as a Mac user already, it's nice having a player that can double as an external firewire hard drive so I can boot from it in an emergency and run disk repair utilities from it, if I desire.
(At one point in time, there was talk of an addition coming to Mac OS X that would let you log into ANY Mac by docking your iPod with it first, and thereby automatically bringing up a desktop with your personal preferences and settings. Basically, your iPod would hold the key components from your "home" directory and OS X would know how to use it as sort of a "roaming profile". I imagine something like that is still on the way....)
Granted, the smaller capacity flash players aren't going to be doing all of this.... but they're not $400-500 either. But they still get the benefits of the easy to navigate menu system and click-wheel concept, and lack of annoying little eraser-sized buttons and controls all over them.
iPods aren't a huge success just because "Mac fanboys" think they're only buying style and coolness factor with them....
Wrong you are! Some people have nice things. Some people sue other people for nice things. We all have our ways. Who are you to imperiously inflict your phalocentric notions of "competence" and "personal responsibility" on the rest of us? Fascist...
If Apple had put the quality of workmanship of the Mini into the Nano, I might have been pursuaded to wait.
Apple's response that there's nothing wrong because the Nanos use the same materials as the old iPods is rediculous. The old iPods have the same problem. My first iPod got so scratched up that the screen became unreadable (just from carrying it around in my pocket). My second iPod was significantly scratched up a week after I bought it (again just from being in my pocket), so this time I bought one of those hard plastic shells for it and it's been fine since then. Apple needs to fix the screens on ALL their iPods, not just the nanos.
Were you born worthless, or did you have to work at it?
the suit will probably mean more work for those third world electronics factories/people. Make ipod nano screen once, it is defective, turn around make another one, marginally better. Like, what do they care, just another contract. The more throw away products we consume, good, bad or mediocre, the more money they make. They don't care.
...like the iPod battery lawsuit, if it goes anywhere. iPod owners with a "defective" product will get a gift certificate for the Apple store worth only a fraction of what they paid for their Nano...
...In the meantime, the lawyers make off with millions.
I the first scan I thought you wrote "blogging outfit." A blogging outfit could be the Simmons-esque jogging suit. Or it could be a Mumu. I'm also thinking that silver clothes trimmed with aluminium, and adorned with a Star Trek communicator (wirelessly interfaces with IM software) would be quite the haute coture of the frenzied world of blogosphere fashion.
I think I'll go and start my own line of togas with gadget-holding folds.
... and then they built the supercollider.
In the interests of balance ... if you are referring to Thailand, I don't know if it's entirely fair to say that "people will sell their daughters into the sex slave market". Maybe this is the case in other countries I haven't read about (link me up!).
r ef.asp It turns out that it isn't the mean old parents, it is the acculturation of the children, especially in the poorer, less educated north of the country. Incidentally, while "our religion" sees prostitution as a great evil to be stamped out, theirs does not. It is honorable in their case (especially middle-daughters according to Rende Taylor) for them to help their families (parents and the oldest and youngest sibling) with prosperity (food, clothing, shelter) and education (either in the south, or abroad in southeast Asia, including Japan and Korea). Sadly, when middle daughters move off for higher education the costs and their percieved debt to their families often results in prostitution.
:-D haha
In Thailand... http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20050924/bob9
However, there is still a "blame the parents" argument: If only they weren't Buddhist and hadn't raised their daughters Buddhist and instead raised them with a purely Western set of beliefs and social obligations! Only then would they understand that children should fly the coop and become rugged, self-actualized, bootstrapping, materialistic individualists precisely at age 18 (they should also count age the way we do in the West) with all of the tenuous kin-bonds that that implies (E.g., in America the extent of our responsibility to aged parents is to hold them in institutions/infirmaries until they die of old age, hopefully --for our bottom lines-- for much less than the 18 years they invested in us). Non-Buddhists are liberated by only having to live right for 60-odd years (and most Christians get the free-pass of Divine Forgiveness). These girls on the other hand, through no fault of their own, merely the indoctrination of their communities, are trapped by the oppression of eternal karma.
Yes, I'm using hyperbole, but the point is the same: (cultural) context matters. This is not to excuse actual incarceration, coercion or exploitation (i.e., actual sex-slaves). It may be offensive, but being free would logically mean being free to sell sex -- just like any other contracted service (fortunately we have laws to prevent consenting citizens from doing things that are offensive and more laws about who can consent and under what conditions). These laws are the same thing that makes this statement false: "It's untidy. And freedom's untidy. And free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things." (Don Rumsfeld, April, 2003)
But yeah... worrying about scratches on iPods... it sure does pale in the face of these scary societal questions. Nods to the sibling poster about strawmen arguments, though. Suing about scratches seems a little frivolous, but the existence (or legality) of prostitution really has no bearing on the debate.
Sorry everyone for this post being all over the map! I'm bored! Speaking of karma though -- I better post this AC
I officially declare that common sense is dead in the U.S.A... next step is to legislate it.
The tests done at ArsTechnica were pretty extreme and the scratching they caused wasn't nearly as bad as some people here are describing their own experiences to be. Sure, a 'soft cloth' damaged your Nano, I don't believe it, sorry.
/., some extreme claims made by people here. Now the lawyers need to get in on it to make millions in a class action that will maybe get the consumers 1% of the cost of the Nanos back when Apple settles rather than waste more time and money in court? This is insane.
There have been, as always on
I don't see even one link to a scratched iPod Nano picture. This is pathetic. I think it's just hype. Google Images turns up 2 results for "ipod nano scratches" -neither of which is a scratched nano (not: "iPod Nano" alone turns up some 12,000 images). The only image I've ever seen of a scratched nano was when ars threw it out the window of a fast moving car...multiple times; and the screen, when working, was still readable.
In the age of the internet and digital photography, I'm sure that if this were an epidemic, or even mildly serious problem, there would be pictures everywhere!
Texas passed significant medical malpractice reform recently, and malpractice insurance rates are falling significantly.
-ccm
Too much Law; not enough Order.
i've owned a good 10-12 portable electronic devices with LCD screens in my day, and not a single one of them became scratched beyond legibility despite being carried in my pocket (with glass, plastic, and metal objects raking along them), dropped onto hard floors, rubbed with my fingers, or wiped with things much scratchier than a paper towel. i don't reasonably expect my cellphone's outer LCD to be readable after having my keys rake across them several thousand times over the course of this month, but it is anyway. if the nano is a pocket-size device (as it is being pithed as and as its larger precursors have been,) it should be designed to be carried in a pocket without sustaining serious damage within several days of regular use (carrying in its own pocket, touching the screen with fingers, being raked across several thousand times by pocket lint.) if every single fucking electronic display device that came before it can survive years of pocketed abuse, i think we can reasonably expect this expensive product from a company known for its quality products to survive the gauntlet that is everyday use (or at least withstand several days' worth of carriage in a plastic case designed to protect it.)
Does it occur to anyone that the reason the nano's seem to have more scratches is because they are smaller? With smaller devices people tend to put them in places where they wouldn't have put them before.
I know my phone is scratched to hell because I keep it in a pocket that also has change, cigarette lighters and such. The difference is that my phone flips closed and protects the screen.
If you want too protect your iPod get a cover you whiners.
Sounds more like BMW drivers have a notorious reputation for being complete douche bags.
The heart of the argument is not whether someone in America should or should not initiate such a lawsuit. It has more to do with priorities, with expanded sensitivities and sensibilities. I'm an educator. There are far greater issues and causes one can devote one's time to, really, that are immeasurably more meaningful. Think about it. We're the only superpower left in the world. There are children and adults dying each day for want of food and drinking water.
This iPod screen issue is important to several people. Okay, I'm cool with that. It would not be anywhere near the top of my list of things to pursue. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." (Pierre Teilhard de Chardin)