This is the same result I had. With only a couple of exceptions (my a for example) I was up and running on Graffiti in about 3 minutes.
Unfortunately, my HP 545 had such bad handwriting recognition that I was doomed to the keyboard. After buying a Tungsten to replace it, I am once again writing at full speed with a stylus.
I sincerely hope that the Graffiti 2 is similar enough for me to use it without a keyboard.
-WS
I couldn't agree more, except for the/. bashing part...
Just as background: I personally am a professional systems admin and developer on an AIX/DB2/SAP/Win NT based system in a Fortune 100 company. However, by night, (and weekends, etc) I like to do things that are not job-related. I write games, I make comedic short films, I post a website about my car restoration, I make techno and house CDs, and I spend tons of time playing with my kids.
My new Macs have allowed me to do more of the fun stuff (photo albums, CD-Ripping, DVD-recording, audio mastering, developing, etc), and spend MUCH less time figuring out what just happened when I upgraded some software app.
I like it that way. I still like playing with hardware, I'm not retarded, and I'm not Anti-Windows. I even like Windows (gasp).
But at home, it's probably going to be Mac for me for a long time to come...
Actually, I agree. I am a huge fan of my Macs (one the model in question, the other a 1GHz powerbook), but the testing he is doing is very valid from a "perception" POV.
He's not trying to do a thorough platform test, he's saying (IMHO) that if you do this all day long, here is what will do it fastest.
I believe his benchmarks, I have no problem that my brand new $3k G4 didn't win, and I noticed that there are pro-Mac and con-Mac articles on the site. I'm not about to drop my Mac for it, but if I were paying hundreds of people to use Premier and AE, and I needed new hardware, I would certainly be looking at those Dells.
Of course, for what I do, I found the Macs to be superior, or I wouldn't have bought them. They are the first Apple machines I have owned since an Apple IIe. I am delighted with them, and they serve well.
However, zealous platform issues aside, time is money, and corporate people who only use a small suite of apps (like 3DS or LightWave or Premier or Final Cut) should go with what will make them the most profit, the fastest. If I can produce a commercial in 30 days using a Mac, and in 30 days using a PC (since there's more involved than machine speed, you know), then I should go with what is cheapest. $600 across 30 machines is a LOT of money. Save $18k? If there are no other reasons to decide on a platform than that, I'll follow the money.
Of course, for me, I wanted the Macs. I only bought 2 however, not 30. (I also wanted a few apps that were apple only)
Yes, there were major issues. Calc and notepad were about the only apps that came with it, and nothing would run on it except for a very short list of apps.
Or wait, was the the x86 version of NT 4.0...
Just kidding, of course. We actually had an NT 4.0 on Alpha here for a long time, but we never actually used it for anything. It was a sort of expensive air filter after the original project (whatever it was) dried up.
Having owned a classic (1973) Porsche 911t Targa, and currently owning a 1975 Corvette Stingray T-top, I can tell the idea is somewhere between getting laid, and the sheer fun of a classic performance car.
Some people, (myself obviously included) think that the pre-gas shortage cars in the US were much better looking cars. The current models seem to still be recovering from the 80's and 90's ideas of "Box on Wheels" and "Wind Tunnel Styling". I wouldn't own a new Porsche.
I think the idea with the PDP however, is not nostalgia. It was (and is) a very stable platform. Many companies either just left them, or are still using them. We just left the VAX platform not too long ago, despite having used Alphas concurrently for ages.
This is very true. I have not seen the Win2K report, but I have a copy of the NT 3x and 4x ones around here somewhere, as well as some of the docs for some other similar products. (I think the NetWare 4x one or something).
They tell you more about the functionality and design ideas of a program than any class ever will. I hope the new one fills the same gap.
Wow. I read part of that story. Talk about creepy. I imagine sales would have been pretty good, if you pushed it more. Not my style of book, thank you, but I have seen enough like it.
Excuse me, but isn't that a really, really, really, stupid comment? Is that actually the best you can do?
I happen to find/. amusing, and something fun to read while waiting for something else. I find the opinions to be interesting, and occasionally, funny. Yours is funny.
If you are arguing against my sig (which is off-topic, BTW), then argue against it with your intellect. If you are arguing against (or for) my comments, please do the same.
If that is all you have to say, than I feel sorry for you.
Apologies for the offtopic, but this really needed to be said at some point:)
I see your point here, but I think what you are missing the real problem.
Geeks have become a clique
That is the problem. Just like some people who don't ride skateboards are called Skateboarders, and people who are into Anne Rice are called Goths, Geeks are now a "culture". This is the fundamental problem.
I don't know about you, but I AM NOT A GEEK. I am a highly paid, moderately liberal computer professional. I do not have a ponytail, I do not wear t-shirts with political slogans (most of my shirts are free vendor handouts with software or hardware logos), and I most certainly am not going to say that I belong to any particular cultural group.
However, I might be classed (by another individual) as a geek, since I can program in dozens of languages, configure routers, wire hubs, build servers, manage workstations, hand-edit the Windows Registry, and still remember the PET. I am against the DMCA, against harsh limits on fair use (while being for reasonable limits), and against an Orwellian future.
Does that make me a geek? Do I care? No. I think that is the problem. Geeks used to be just about anyone who was technical (in anything from Art to Circuitry), and had "fallen out of society" at some point. I have miserable social skills, for example.
Perhaps those of us who seem to be the former geeks should just go back to ignoring these morons, and especially anyone who claims to have geek pride. Or, perhaps we should just be more assertive in saying "F@#K You!" when people try to classify us.
My views probably don't agree with your views in lots of ways. Good. Keep it that way. Be yourself, and to hell with anyone else. Just don't forget that "Geek" apparently is now a culture that was built around the people, not the other way around.
I myself, however, used to use a chord style keyboard, and found that a specific chord worked well for some things (int, char, while, HTML etc) it was painfully slow for the things like &this and *pThat. People (other than us) seem to think that a keyboard should adapt to fit English.
Programmers would probably prefer a keyboard done in a slightly different language:)
Actually, my big thing is RPGs. Not EverQuest so much, but things like Baldur's Gate, Ultima, Final Fantasy, Legends of Black Cat, etc. I also like things like Spiderman, and some of the new sports games like SSX Tricky.
I used to like driving games alot, but I found Gran Turismo to be better than any of the ones I had (they were all rather old). The logitech steering wheel is really impressive.
As for purchase prices, most of my games were purchased in the $20-$30 dollar range. There were a few (Baldur's Gate at $45, Final Fantasy X at $55), but that's still the same price as a PC game.
Something I didn't mention earlier... I am a major fan of individual games. I don't tend to like discarding them once they are "out-dated", and the work I need to go to in order to play Ultima II or US Navy Fighters is, I think, too much.
I delight in knowing that I will be able to keep my PS2 (and my kid's N64) around for ages, and still play the games. I greatly enjoy PS1 games even though I never owned one. To me, this is one of the major benefits.
Well, that and the fact that I haven't had a game crash on me since I switched:)
That's what I did. Never will look back. I went early this year, and bought a PS2. I needed DVD player, and I already head a 36" Sony Trinitron with the Sony 5.1 DTS hooked up. It was a no-brainer. Either $2500 to update my (then) slightly obsolete machine, or $200 to get the PS2, and $200 to get a DVD player.
Best of all, I can buy used games for $20-$30, and if they suck, or if I beat them easily, I can take them back. Touch that with a PC game.
Of course, all this, plus never having to upgrade a PC again makes me so happy. It's why I can use Linux. I was able to move from Windows 98 to PS2 and Linux, rather than buy a new computer running XP or 2000.
I have to say, that is a pretty good translation effort. I think what we're dealing with is not a language evolution, however, but the absorbtion of an argot into the normal language.
Something similar to the creation of English itself.
I have heard English put best thus, "English is what happens when a Norman soldier hits on an Angle (or Pict) barmaid".
You might also recall that sailors, thieves, scholars, and scientists have always held their own forms of language. We tend to call this "jargon" now, but the theme holds.
The confusion come about when things like "carry on" (to put up as much sail as possible) and "paradigm" (logical order of things) are pushed back into the mainstream language.
Usually, it happens when people accustomed to a specific jargon (like computer geeks, or retired military) are put into a mainstream environment. They bring the jargon they use with them.
You have some good points. I don't know that I agree that all of the quality software came from investment captial, however. I do think that some of the major steps forward did, and I am positive that the buzz generated attracted more quality developers than ever before.
I disagree that it will all go away, since it existed before venture capital, and will continue to exist after venture capital. Some people have an actual opinion about their OS now, and that is an improvement worth any amount of money. Nobody considered that 5 years ago. I worked in a business where we ran OS/2 in order to use SNA, host emulation, and remote desktop control and we were ridiculed. We then went to Windows, and suffered seriously. Windows wasn't ready then, and is barely ready now.
I think that the companies who have realized that there are actual choices in platform are the biggest winners. It's no longer rubberstamp. There is now that moment of hesitation... MS Access, or Postgres? Should I use x, or y for our firewall?
Let's also not forget that Linux as an embedded OS is taking major strides. It's everything a lot of people want in an embedded OS.
So I don't agree that it's over. I think that it will just adjust.
SAP DB is also what used to be known as Atabase. SAP purchased it in typically mega-corp fashion. It's hard to make an argument for SAPDB when you already support Oracle or MS-SQL, since SAP runs just fine on both of those. The only real reason to use SAPDB is if you have heavy SAP Basis people, and only part-time DBAs. SAP on other DBs is a full time job.
SAP really is not the kind of thing a smallish company would want. It's a huge, modular, proprietary, complex piece of work. It has its own language (ABAP), it has its own "OS" (Basis), and it is designed to own everything it touches. I have lived and breathed SAP at my company for over 2 years now (as a Basis admin), and I can tell you that unless you wanted a 1 stop ultra-integration system, it is not for you.
SAP is sweet in that it is incredibly easy to control the flow of money and goods around a system, but everything requires customization. This is not OTS software. A typical install takes 2 years, and just handling an upgrade will be the hardest 4-5 days of your life. We did 3.1H to 4.6B in a 3 system (development, quality assurance, production) landscape in 2 weeks, and I think we darned near set a record.
SAP is definately only for really large commodity driven companies. If I were the CTO of a medium size business, I would not use an ERP like SAP. I'd use something much lighter weight. Of course, if I were Amazon, Dell, Anheiser-Busch, Pepsico, etc. I would be using SAP. Nothing else comes close when you need to know what, where, when, and how much.
SAPDB is not bad. The only reason we chose against it here (a fortune 100 SAP using company) is that we have DB2 EE very firmly entrenched.
SAPDB is very easy to maintain, using the SAP tools. I had no major issues with it on our non-prod test system. Why the heck would you try to "hack" it? That's like trying to re-make SSAA or ST03 just for fun. Use it, like it, don't like it, whatever. The tools SAP provides are frequently cheaper, as nice, and as easy to maintain as third-party offerings.
Yes, I see the same thing in the Pay Forums I use for work. When your company pays many thousands of dollars a year to have a tech support forum ( such as ours, for a certain German company ), people maintain more decorum.
Even the "1337" types are very polite. I deal with one person frequently who types the most horrendous garbage when he is off-work; he is the soul of professionalism on the pay forum.
Try doing things as a power of 10, then. (ie int x = 10 would be equiv to x = 1, but with the ability to do limited float.)
This way, you would declare x = 30, x = x/2, and bingo, x == 15. (or 1.5, you see.)
Also, you get to avoid some nasty traps that can occur with floats in double-digit precision systems. (Like financial, for example.) You don't have "loose change" floating around.
Yes. I do stuff with OpenGL frequently, and there are ways around almost anything. This would just make it annoying, and piss off a lot of people.
The worst part is that companies like Sony and Nintendo use a lot of OpenGL too. They are not exactly light-weights, and I'm sure they would simply create custom APIs. . .
Of course, that would certaintly hurt the xbox. I can just imagine the whining that would result if Sony and/or Nintendo decided to use secret "really neat" custom APIs. MS would then have to compete feature for feature with black-box code, in an area where they have very little experience. MS would have to Optimize the code, or throw amazing amounts of hardware (compared to the competition), and still have to sell at the same price.
Slashdot Mirror
Unfortunately, my HP 545 had such bad handwriting recognition that I was doomed to the keyboard. After buying a Tungsten to replace it, I am once again writing at full speed with a stylus.
I sincerely hope that the Graffiti 2 is similar enough for me to use it without a keyboard. -WS
I couldn't agree more, except for the /. bashing part...
Just as background: I personally am a professional systems admin and developer on an AIX/DB2/SAP/Win NT based system in a Fortune 100 company. However, by night, (and weekends, etc) I like to do things that are not job-related. I write games, I make comedic short films, I post a website about my car restoration, I make techno and house CDs, and I spend tons of time playing with my kids.
My new Macs have allowed me to do more of the fun stuff (photo albums, CD-Ripping, DVD-recording, audio mastering, developing, etc), and spend MUCH less time figuring out what just happened when I upgraded some software app.
I like it that way. I still like playing with hardware, I'm not retarded, and I'm not Anti-Windows. I even like Windows (gasp).
But at home, it's probably going to be Mac for me for a long time to come...
-WS
He's not trying to do a thorough platform test, he's saying (IMHO) that if you do this all day long, here is what will do it fastest.
I believe his benchmarks, I have no problem that my brand new $3k G4 didn't win, and I noticed that there are pro-Mac and con-Mac articles on the site. I'm not about to drop my Mac for it, but if I were paying hundreds of people to use Premier and AE, and I needed new hardware, I would certainly be looking at those Dells.
Of course, for what I do, I found the Macs to be superior, or I wouldn't have bought them. They are the first Apple machines I have owned since an Apple IIe. I am delighted with them, and they serve well.
However, zealous platform issues aside, time is money, and corporate people who only use a small suite of apps (like 3DS or LightWave or Premier or Final Cut) should go with what will make them the most profit, the fastest. If I can produce a commercial in 30 days using a Mac, and in 30 days using a PC (since there's more involved than machine speed, you know), then I should go with what is cheapest. $600 across 30 machines is a LOT of money. Save $18k? If there are no other reasons to decide on a platform than that, I'll follow the money.
Of course, for me, I wanted the Macs. I only bought 2 however, not 30. (I also wanted a few apps that were apple only)
-WS
Or wait, was the the x86 version of NT 4.0...
Just kidding, of course. We actually had an NT 4.0 on Alpha here for a long time, but we never actually used it for anything. It was a sort of expensive air filter after the original project (whatever it was) dried up.
-WS
Some people, (myself obviously included) think that the pre-gas shortage cars in the US were much better looking cars. The current models seem to still be recovering from the 80's and 90's ideas of "Box on Wheels" and "Wind Tunnel Styling". I wouldn't own a new Porsche.
I think the idea with the PDP however, is not nostalgia. It was (and is) a very stable platform. Many companies either just left them, or are still using them. We just left the VAX platform not too long ago, despite having used Alphas concurrently for ages.
After all, if it works, why upgrade?
-WS
They tell you more about the functionality and design ideas of a program than any class ever will. I hope the new one fills the same gap.
-WS
Perhaps you should promote it more?
-WS
I happen to find /. amusing, and something fun to read while waiting for something else. I find the opinions to be interesting, and occasionally, funny. Yours is funny.
If you are arguing against my sig (which is off-topic, BTW), then argue against it with your intellect. If you are arguing against (or for) my comments, please do the same.
If that is all you have to say, than I feel sorry for you.
Apologies for the offtopic, but this really needed to be said at some point :)
-WS
Geeks have become a clique
That is the problem. Just like some people who don't ride skateboards are called Skateboarders, and people who are into Anne Rice are called Goths, Geeks are now a "culture". This is the fundamental problem.
I don't know about you, but I AM NOT A GEEK. I am a highly paid, moderately liberal computer professional. I do not have a ponytail, I do not wear t-shirts with political slogans (most of my shirts are free vendor handouts with software or hardware logos), and I most certainly am not going to say that I belong to any particular cultural group.
However, I might be classed (by another individual) as a geek, since I can program in dozens of languages, configure routers, wire hubs, build servers, manage workstations, hand-edit the Windows Registry, and still remember the PET. I am against the DMCA, against harsh limits on fair use (while being for reasonable limits), and against an Orwellian future.
Does that make me a geek? Do I care? No. I think that is the problem. Geeks used to be just about anyone who was technical (in anything from Art to Circuitry), and had "fallen out of society" at some point. I have miserable social skills, for example.
Perhaps those of us who seem to be the former geeks should just go back to ignoring these morons, and especially anyone who claims to have geek pride. Or, perhaps we should just be more assertive in saying "F@#K You!" when people try to classify us.
My views probably don't agree with your views in lots of ways. Good. Keep it that way. Be yourself, and to hell with anyone else. Just don't forget that "Geek" apparently is now a culture that was built around the people, not the other way around.
-WS
No. Didn't think so.
-WS
It's more of a "feature"...
-WS
I myself, however, used to use a chord style keyboard, and found that a specific chord worked well for some things (int, char, while, HTML etc) it was painfully slow for the things like &this and *pThat. People (other than us) seem to think that a keyboard should adapt to fit English.
Programmers would probably prefer a keyboard done in a slightly different language :)
Now where the heck is my if{ key...
-WS
I used to like driving games alot, but I found Gran Turismo to be better than any of the ones I had (they were all rather old). The logitech steering wheel is really impressive.
As for purchase prices, most of my games were purchased in the $20-$30 dollar range. There were a few (Baldur's Gate at $45, Final Fantasy X at $55), but that's still the same price as a PC game.
Something I didn't mention earlier... I am a major fan of individual games. I don't tend to like discarding them once they are "out-dated", and the work I need to go to in order to play Ultima II or US Navy Fighters is, I think, too much.
I delight in knowing that I will be able to keep my PS2 (and my kid's N64) around for ages, and still play the games. I greatly enjoy PS1 games even though I never owned one. To me, this is one of the major benefits.
Well, that and the fact that I haven't had a game crash on me since I switched :)
-WS
Best of all, I can buy used games for $20-$30, and if they suck, or if I beat them easily, I can take them back. Touch that with a PC game.
Of course, all this, plus never having to upgrade a PC again makes me so happy. It's why I can use Linux. I was able to move from Windows 98 to PS2 and Linux, rather than buy a new computer running XP or 2000.
A good trade, I think.
-WS
Something similar to the creation of English itself.
I have heard English put best thus, "English is what happens when a Norman soldier hits on an Angle (or Pict) barmaid".
You might also recall that sailors, thieves, scholars, and scientists have always held their own forms of language. We tend to call this "jargon" now, but the theme holds.
The confusion come about when things like "carry on" (to put up as much sail as possible) and "paradigm" (logical order of things) are pushed back into the mainstream language.
Usually, it happens when people accustomed to a specific jargon (like computer geeks, or retired military) are put into a mainstream environment. They bring the jargon they use with them.
-WS
Sort of like the a fire, afire bit :)
Perhaps he means that Perl 6 will really stick it to you!
-WS
Give him a sandbox, that seems to be your actual machine on your actual network. Tell him he has 15 minutes to own you system.
If he doesn't even try, he's probably not worth it.
-WS
I disagree that it will all go away, since it existed before venture capital, and will continue to exist after venture capital. Some people have an actual opinion about their OS now, and that is an improvement worth any amount of money. Nobody considered that 5 years ago. I worked in a business where we ran OS/2 in order to use SNA, host emulation, and remote desktop control and we were ridiculed. We then went to Windows, and suffered seriously. Windows wasn't ready then, and is barely ready now.
I think that the companies who have realized that there are actual choices in platform are the biggest winners. It's no longer rubberstamp. There is now that moment of hesitation... MS Access, or Postgres? Should I use x, or y for our firewall?
Let's also not forget that Linux as an embedded OS is taking major strides. It's everything a lot of people want in an embedded OS.
So I don't agree that it's over. I think that it will just adjust.
-WS
-WS
SAP is sweet in that it is incredibly easy to control the flow of money and goods around a system, but everything requires customization. This is not OTS software. A typical install takes 2 years, and just handling an upgrade will be the hardest 4-5 days of your life. We did 3.1H to 4.6B in a 3 system (development, quality assurance, production) landscape in 2 weeks, and I think we darned near set a record.
SAP is definately only for really large commodity driven companies. If I were the CTO of a medium size business, I would not use an ERP like SAP. I'd use something much lighter weight. Of course, if I were Amazon, Dell, Anheiser-Busch, Pepsico, etc. I would be using SAP. Nothing else comes close when you need to know what, where, when, and how much.
-WS
SAPDB is very easy to maintain, using the SAP tools. I had no major issues with it on our non-prod test system. Why the heck would you try to "hack" it? That's like trying to re-make SSAA or ST03 just for fun. Use it, like it, don't like it, whatever. The tools SAP provides are frequently cheaper, as nice, and as easy to maintain as third-party offerings.
-WS
Even the "1337" types are very polite. I deal with one person frequently who types the most horrendous garbage when he is off-work; he is the soul of professionalism on the pay forum.
-WS
It's just people who are willing to give up something and believe other people should be too.
Sort of like those joggers who think that everyone would like jogging if they would just try it once or twice.
The best thing is to just ignore them, and enjoy watching society move in its bizzare ways.
-WS
This way, you would declare x = 30, x = x/2, and bingo, x == 15. (or 1.5, you see.)
Also, you get to avoid some nasty traps that can occur with floats in double-digit precision systems. (Like financial, for example.) You don't have "loose change" floating around.
-WS
The worst part is that companies like Sony and Nintendo use a lot of OpenGL too. They are not exactly light-weights, and I'm sure they would simply create custom APIs. . .
Of course, that would certaintly hurt the xbox. I can just imagine the whining that would result if Sony and/or Nintendo decided to use secret "really neat" custom APIs. MS would then have to compete feature for feature with black-box code, in an area where they have very little experience. MS would have to Optimize the code, or throw amazing amounts of hardware (compared to the competition), and still have to sell at the same price.
-WS