This is a *prime* example of why RMS is correct about his GNU/Linux thing!!
These idiot journalists think that all these billions of dollars are going into the Linux Kernel. That is obviosly incorrect. That money is going into the kernel + lots of other free software projects.
And this talk about Linus relinquishing control of the kernel is ludicrous. He has done an amazing job of keeping bloat under control while providing a great piece of software. The results are obvious by the continued success of the kernel. What we don't need is to get some lame consortium steering Linux.
IBM and SGI are free to make changes to support their mainframes, but us workstations users will always use Linus' software.
It seems to me that the only reason we haven't progessed to Kubrick's vision is energy - or our inability to harness it. It currently takes an incredible amount of fuel to luanch a payload into orbit. And it is extremely expensive.
We need to find/harness cheap, plentiful, reliable and (hopefully) environmentally friendly fuel. Then we could afford to take vacations in space. Of course that still seems pretty far off considering that we just had rolling blackouts here in California.
Sure, he's done an amazing job steering Linux in addition to the early coding he's done. But in the here-and-now, how much of the actual 2.4 kernel is he personally responsible for coding? Any of it, or just a lot of leftover bits from 2.2 or 2.0?
Before you make lame comments like that, you should do some research. If you bother to read kernel changelogs at all, you'll notice Linus still codes and proofreads many patches. To insinuate he is coasting now is rediculous.
You have measured incorrectly. The time to display a loaded page does not show until the page has *finished* loading. If you look at the throbber, it will run for ~3 minutes, during which time the 3.4MB simple html file is loading. The ~2 second time you see displayed, is the time required to display the *previous* page - which is probabaly www.mozilla.org - that is not the test I am measuring.
Just to make sure Mozilla didn't make any recent breakthoughs, I upgraded my 11/27 Mozilla to the 11/30 16:24 Mozilla and repeated the test. The results are even **more** disappointing.
The file now takes 178.581 seconds to load! That is almost 20X slower than NS4.x
Mozilla/NS6 are slow. I keep reading about it being fast... but I don't get it. At least on my PII 400 running Debian/Woody.
First off. Everything is............ lagged - Bring up preferences, browsing menus, opening a new browser window.... EVERYTHING.
Secondly. Rendering speed: I Do Not See It. Here is a quantitative test:
Try to load a simple html file from the hard drive (/usr/doc/glibc-doc/libc.html in debian/woody) that is 3.4MB. It takes over 145 seconds (current Mozilla and NS6 same results)!!! On 4.76, the same file loads in under 9 seconds.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla/NS6. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
Actually, I voted for Bush becvause I live in California where Bush was supposed to have a shot. But thanks to voteexhange2000.com, a Bush supporter in Virginia voted for Browne.
...and in another 2.5 years, a 2x1.5GHz system sporting a NV20 will be considered as absolete as my PII400/TNT is today.
Good uses for all this speed? Faster compile times, more realistic scientific computing, faster Quake X. Something is going to have to come along to make Joe Consumer *need* this extra speed. Three years ago, the argument could be made that that speed advances were very useful... now I'm not so sure (but I love it just the same:)
Mozilla/NS6 are slow. I keep reading about it being fast... but I don't get it. At least on my PII 400 running Debian/Woody.
First off. Everything is............ lagged - Bring up preferences, browsing menus, opening a new browser window.... EVERYTHING.
Secondly. Rendering speed: I Do Not See It. Here is a quantitative test:
Try to load a simple html file from the hard drive (/usr/doc/glibc-doc/libc.html in debian/woody) that is 3.4MB. It takes over 145 seconds (current Mozilla and NS6 same results)!!! On 4.76, the same file loads in under 9 seconds.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla/NS6. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
So, let's please dispense with the "VERY fast" rumours. It makes us look stupid.
Nope, actually CNET was being generous. Gecko is exteremly slow - much slower than 4.76 even.
For example, trying to load a simple html file from the hard drive (/usr/doc/glibc-doc/libc.html in debian/woody) that is 3.4MB takes over 145 seconds (current Mozilla and NS6 same results). On 4.76, the same file loads in under 9 seconds.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla/NS6. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
I don't use Windows, but I'm sure IE trashes Mozilla in these arenas. Gecko has a lot of growing to do.
I stopped trusting CNN long ago. Their reporting throughout the campaign indicated a strong Gore bias. I think they don't want to see the rise of a legitimate 3rd party for smaller government.
I actually wrote them a note as well (about 2 weeks ago) telling them as such.
Debian is simply the best and it's developer base is continuing to expand rapidly. Great support too. Run woody on the workstations (XFree4 w/matrox cards is great) and potato on file/mail servers.
Until Mozilla gets some speed, it will never be accepted. In my mind this is the most debilitating factor of Mozilla.
For example, trying to load the GNU 2.2 libc manual (a 3.4MB file - located in/usr/doc/glic-doc in woody) takes 145 seconds on a current Mozilla snapshot!! Netscape 4.76 takes under 9 seconds to load the same file.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
Not everything is bad though. Mozilla has definitely surpassed Netscape 4 in stability. But now work on the speed - it is more important than standards at this point.
Rob, I too am on the gov't dole (NSF). For the past 1.5 years I've been doing basic molecular biology research, but I'm definitely liberterian. Imagine how much more companies could spend on research if they didn't pay taxes. Imagine what kind of salery we would require if we didn't pay taxes! The gov't has to pay for us because they broke the system.
Anybody know if NASA plans to launch a newer, bigger, better, faster, more version?
Actually, Deep Space 1 with that fancy ion engine seems like it will be a candidate for one of those ultra long missions. See http://nmp.jpl.nasa.gov/ds1/
.
Slashdot Mirror
This is a *prime* example of why RMS is correct about his GNU/Linux thing!!
These idiot journalists think that all these billions of dollars are going into the Linux Kernel. That is obviosly incorrect. That money is going into the kernel + lots of other free software projects.
And this talk about Linus relinquishing control of the kernel is ludicrous. He has done an amazing job of keeping bloat under control while providing a great piece of software. The results are obvious by the continued success of the kernel. What we don't need is to get some lame consortium steering Linux.
IBM and SGI are free to make changes to support their mainframes, but us workstations users will always use Linus' software.
that parses like english, but all i see is
.net matters not one bit to anything we do with linux.
"blah blah blah. blah-dee blah-dee...microcrap marketing.. blah"
.net is lame, rehashed, boring and unproductive (for free software).
Or a *really* big Borg Cube...
It's *already* on SCSI drives
I surely hope that *you* are joking that you hope this is a joke
;)
it's really quite obvious that it is not!!
that's why you just have to download the small md5 file from kernel.org to verify.
Around test-9/10 the default cpu was changed from PII to PIII. If this is not set correctly for your friend's computer, it will *not* boot.
It seems to me that the only reason we haven't progessed to Kubrick's vision is energy - or our inability to harness it. It currently takes an incredible amount of fuel to luanch a payload into orbit. And it is extremely expensive.
We need to find/harness cheap, plentiful, reliable and (hopefully) environmentally friendly fuel. Then we could afford to take vacations in space. Of course that still seems pretty far off considering that we just had rolling blackouts here in California.
i think all the goats.ex trolls killed all the natalie portman trolls. i find the new group much more disturbing.
Before you make lame comments like that, you should do some research. If you bother to read kernel changelogs at all, you'll notice Linus still codes and proofreads many patches. To insinuate he is coasting now is rediculous.
Dear Coward,
You have measured incorrectly. The time to display a loaded page does not show until the page has *finished* loading. If you look at the throbber, it will run for ~3 minutes, during which time the 3.4MB simple html file is loading. The ~2 second time you see displayed, is the time required to display the *previous* page - which is probabaly www.mozilla.org - that is not the test I am measuring.
Just to make sure Mozilla didn't make any recent breakthoughs, I upgraded my 11/27 Mozilla to the 11/30 16:24 Mozilla and repeated the test. The results are even **more** disappointing.
The file now takes 178.581 seconds to load! That is almost 20X slower than NS4.x
Mozilla/NS6 are slow. I keep reading about it being fast... but I don't get it. At least on my PII 400 running Debian/Woody.
............ lagged - Bring up preferences, browsing menus, opening a new browser window.... EVERYTHING.
First off. Everything is
Secondly. Rendering speed: I Do Not See It. Here is a quantitative test:
Try to load a simple html file from the hard drive (/usr/doc/glibc-doc/libc.html in debian/woody) that is 3.4MB. It takes over 145 seconds (current Mozilla and NS6 same results)!!! On 4.76, the same file loads in under 9 seconds.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla/NS6. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
ditto.
Actually, I voted for Bush becvause I live in California where Bush was supposed to have a shot. But thanks to voteexhange2000.com, a Bush supporter in Virginia voted for Browne.
...and in another 2.5 years, a 2x1.5GHz system sporting a NV20 will be considered as absolete as my PII400/TNT is today.
:)
Good uses for all this speed? Faster compile times, more realistic scientific computing, faster Quake X. Something is going to have to come along to make Joe Consumer *need* this extra speed. Three years ago, the argument could be made that that speed advances were very useful... now I'm not so sure (but I love it just the same
Mozilla/NS6 are slow. I keep reading about it being fast... but I don't get it. At least on my PII 400 running Debian/Woody.
............ lagged - Bring up preferences, browsing menus, opening a new browser window.... EVERYTHING.
First off. Everything is
Secondly. Rendering speed: I Do Not See It. Here is a quantitative test:
Try to load a simple html file from the hard drive (/usr/doc/glibc-doc/libc.html in debian/woody) that is 3.4MB. It takes over 145 seconds (current Mozilla and NS6 same results)!!! On 4.76, the same file loads in under 9 seconds.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla/NS6. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
So, let's please dispense with the "VERY fast" rumours. It makes us look stupid.
Nope, actually CNET was being generous. Gecko is exteremly slow - much slower than 4.76 even.
For example, trying to load a simple html file from the hard drive (/usr/doc/glibc-doc/libc.html in debian/woody) that is 3.4MB takes over 145 seconds (current Mozilla and NS6 same results). On 4.76, the same file loads in under 9 seconds.
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla/NS6. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
I don't use Windows, but I'm sure IE trashes Mozilla in these arenas. Gecko has a lot of growing to do.
you've been lied to. we don't live in a democracy, we live in a republic. you can yead about it on the web - try "republic vs democracy" on google.
Bush is a shoe-in in Oregon
I stopped trusting CNN long ago. Their reporting throughout the campaign indicated a strong Gore bias. I think they don't want to see the rise of a legitimate 3rd party for smaller government.
I actually wrote them a note as well (about 2 weeks ago) telling them as such.
GW wants you to make sweet love to her. I concur.
Oh come on now. Those of us who voted for your future leader know this was the best outcome.
Smile. You get a tax cut.
Debian is simply the best and it's developer base is continuing to expand rapidly. Great support too. Run woody on the workstations (XFree4 w/matrox cards is great) and potato on file/mail servers.
Until Mozilla gets some speed, it will never be accepted. In my mind this is the most debilitating factor of Mozilla.
/usr/doc/glic-doc in woody) takes 145 seconds on a current Mozilla snapshot!! Netscape 4.76 takes under 9 seconds to load the same file.
For example, trying to load the GNU 2.2 libc manual (a 3.4MB file - located in
Searches for text within a loaded file are also rediculously slow in Mozilla. On a long file, the closer you get to the bottom of the document, the longer the searches take! It can take many seconds for a search to advance just one line of text in a big document.
Not everything is bad though. Mozilla has definitely surpassed Netscape 4 in stability. But now work on the speed - it is more important than standards at this point.
Rob, I too am on the gov't dole (NSF). For the past 1.5 years I've been doing basic molecular biology research, but I'm definitely liberterian. Imagine how much more companies could spend on research if they didn't pay taxes. Imagine what kind of salery we would require if we didn't pay taxes! The gov't has to pay for us because they broke the system.
Actually, Deep Space 1 with that fancy ion engine seems like it will be a candidate for one of those ultra long missions. See http://nmp.jpl.nasa.gov/ds1/ .