I'm sure picking up litter on the highway is one wayIt's possible, but I'm sure it would be one of hundreds of different positions, not the only one.
You just want to try to force people No agenda, didn't vote.
And you betray your leanings completely I'm not even registered to vote.
A fair question I asked myself all the time back in high school. It's a required condition to graduate. Don't like it? Get a Dr's note, get a GED or drop out.
In taxes, however, the money is deducated through income. You seem stuck on the idea that this is "forced labor", so why don't you call this a school tax? Kids paying for their public education by working for the state? It meets your services rendered definition.
Ah, but now your agenda is fully revealed. Once again I did not vote, and I have no agenda nor am I being swayed by the voice of any party. I didn't watch any speeches, and paid little attention to the news (to be fair, I don't really check out the "news" anyway, save for this site and the 'odds and sods' portion of the register). Any agenda you think I might have would go nowhere since guess what: I didn't vote! No I take that back. My agenda was to tell you that mandatory community service as a condition for graduation was not a big deal, and was already instated in many schools long before this election (by at least 20 years). I have done so, and I feel my points were clear. It appears your agenda is to label me and put me through the wringer for your bipartisan angst.
"Society", to you, is the master, and people are born to serve society and put its interest ahead of one's self and one's own wants and needs
I don't think you've discussed this with me out of a desire to know my beliefs, but since you challenged them here they are: I think people need to understand and acknowledge that we are in a society and the things we do affect each other. I think when people come together as a team and one guy is a slacker, he gets cut from the team or he drags the team down. I think there is too much coddling in our society, to many signs to tell us where we can walk. I think we live in a society of savages, disgusting savages. I think the gov't is top heavy in this, the information age, and a restructuring is necessary for the future of this country (not your bipartisan rhetoric, true restructuring with a redistribution of power to the local and city level to give the people a voice again). I think people should spend more time minding their own business. I think none of this has to do with the original subject, which was high school students doing community service, but there you go.
What the hell are you going to "learn" new by picking up litter on the highway?
I doubt these youth would be picking up litter on the highway, but I'll humor you. I imagine they would learn that menial jobs suck and they better stay in school so they can get a decent job.
People, quit trying to dress up your agenda with fluffy-sounding words
I don't have an agenda, hell I'm so disappointed in our current system I didn't even vote. I'm much more worried about the control our corporate masters have over us than I am our ineffectual gov't.
Everything forced in school is relevant to education
Like the PE I was forced to do (per Reagans instruction)? What respectable learning did I achieve by swinging my arms and running?
You might as well ask kids to spend a night in jail so they can "learn" something
Why? Because everyone will end up in jail in their lifetime? Everyone will work someday, and they will probably start out in an entry level crappy job somewhere. This is like a practice job. Sure there will be plenty of people who won't learn anything from it, but that's already true of every class in High School.
Anyone who doesn't believe that people should be required to do "free work" for the government is OBVIOUSLY just trying to get a rise out of people!
And the 10-30% I pay in taxes isn't free labor for the gov't? We all pay our dues in some form,
That's a bit too much control for me.
I'm sorry you feel that way, personally I think the gov't should have enough control to make sure everyone is pulling their own weight, so that the people who fall to the point of least resistance aren't dragging me down. Taking something that a large portion of schools already do and establishing it as a standard across the board is pretty trivial.
All of these positions require you deal with people new people. And there's different degrees to any type of phobia. When I worked at the fairgrounds I dealt with one person. One. Seriously, if you can't deal with new people you have bigger issues than school, and I am sure the board would accept a doctors note and excuse you from doing the community service.
You say it promotes "civic responsibility", but that's very vague, and very personally value-laden. Who are you to force your values on others? There are litter laws because civic minded people wanted a cleaner city and rules were established that "force" you to not litter. Any difference? Not really. But the actual point of my saying "promotes civic responsibility" was aimed more towards the education of our youth. I can't force them to understand that we all (mostly) live under the same set of rules and we are all affected by each other's presence (my 'values'). But if you spend twenty hours cleaning a road, or assisting the library or working the fairgrounds, or any other of a number of assistance programs in play for publicly funded systems, you might learn something new about our society. And you might have less of a selfish I want it now because I'm special attitude. But prolly not.
Might as well have them work at Burger King for free. That's basically what this community service amounts to.
Provided I paid for burger king to run by way of my taxes, then yes that's what it is. And as far the "force" thing goes, well you are also forced by law to go to school (until age 15 I beleive), unless you can get your parents to sign off on some sort of homeschool project. Is that also unfair?
I'm starting to think you are just trolling here, and not genuine in your statements, and I hope I am wrong. I'll leave you with this: I like this country. We have lots of freedom. We also have lots of emptyheads. And emptyheads need direction (actually they need specific instructions). Kids are emptyheads, thus need direction. Evewryone needs to understand how to feed themsleves, how to work for money and how to get along with others. Many do not, and will lead long lives of debt and gov't support. I say not only should we force community service on the youth, but also everyone on welfare, or otherwise recieving gov't assistance to supplement their lack of those three abilities.
I was required to do 20 hours of community service to get my high school diploma (Douglas County HS, Colorado) and it was hardly a big deal. I went to the library and shelved books for a few weekends over the summer (Actually that was the second time, because apparantly I was too young when I did it the first time at the fairgrounds, where I worked by myself whitewashing a few bathrooms).
Community service for teens is a great idea: it reduces taxpayer burden for fulfilling menial tasks (not by alot, but it helps), it promotes civic responsibility, and it's a chance to see what it's like to have a job (hopefully it's crappy enough to keep you studying in school, lest you end up working there full time).
I am not going to make the leap you are suggessting, but I will say this: Your reason against mandatory community service was that you had social anxiety (you were scared). I don't mean to belittle your affliction, but as I have demonstrated there are plenty of positions you can take that don't involve dealing with people, and additionally if you have such crippling social anxiety that you cant work for 4 hours twice a week for 6 weeks, how are you even managing to go school?
Don't be silly, there are plenty of ways they could increase revenue if that was the goal. It's not. Read the FAQ I posted above, this is solely a measure taken to curb spam. Hell read the summary above, their donating their hooker fees to charity. Not one iota I mentioned was referring to craigslists lust for money, and I don't know where you came to that conclusion at all.
It might work in the Tech or professional sector, but it doesn't fly for lower class jobs or jobs in the restuarant/hospitality field, and for these groups craigslist was a real boon.
I'm sorry you had problems finding a job and got suckered into referral posts and the like, but separating the wheat from the chaff is expected when you have an unfiltered data set. Now that they have chosen to filter, the true value of the sight is diminished, as is it's uniqueness.
About two weeks ago they decided to "curb spammers" by charging $25 to list a help wanted ad. When questioned, they offer up a FAQ which states that "We've charged for jobs in San Francisco for 10 years, no destruction so far." So one of the most expensive cities in the union is the base for comparison?
But if smoking inside were legal and I came up and pulled the cigarette out of your mouth and threw it in the garbage, then, clearly, I would be a tremendous asshole.
That's basically what the nanny-state lobbyists did when they took away the private owners right to choose whether or not to run an establishment which allows smoking. My original point was that no one should have the power to take away someones right to choose, and it looks like that was your point as well.
Seriously, though this is such a huge impossibility (right now). I've been wondering what the hell the financial experts were smoking when they engineered the real estate boom; apparantly they were buying it from the tech forecast experts.
That was exactly my point, it isn't about religon which is why such comparisons are flamebait (maybe the mods meant +1 incitefull?). Posting via palm, so forgive the brevity.
Which one bombs abortion clinics? Which one fathered the crusades? Which one preaches a violent and painful torture in the afterlife for non-believers?
I am appalled this flamebait is currently at +4 insightful, absolutely appalled.
That being said I don't want to hear anything from the Qu'Ran anymore than I want to hear passages from the Bible when I am playing videogames but I'll put up with it to avoid yet another advance for on the censorship front.
Slashdot Mirror
Reusable cups for some, tiny american flags for others!
Sounds double-plus good to me!
I'm sure picking up litter on the highway is one wayIt's possible, but I'm sure it would be one of hundreds of different positions, not the only one.
You just want to try to force people
No agenda, didn't vote.
And you betray your leanings completely
I'm not even registered to vote.
A fair question I asked myself all the time back in high school.
It's a required condition to graduate. Don't like it? Get a Dr's note, get a GED or drop out.
In taxes, however, the money is deducated through income.
You seem stuck on the idea that this is "forced labor", so why don't you call this a school tax? Kids paying for their public education by working for the state? It meets your services rendered definition.
Ah, but now your agenda is fully revealed.
Once again I did not vote, and I have no agenda nor am I being swayed by the voice of any party. I didn't watch any speeches, and paid little attention to the news (to be fair, I don't really check out the "news" anyway, save for this site and the 'odds and sods' portion of the register). Any agenda you think I might have would go nowhere since guess what: I didn't vote! No I take that back. My agenda was to tell you that mandatory community service as a condition for graduation was not a big deal, and was already instated in many schools long before this election (by at least 20 years). I have done so, and I feel my points were clear. It appears your agenda is to label me and put me through the wringer for your bipartisan angst.
"Society", to you, is the master, and people are born to serve society and put its interest ahead of one's self and one's own wants and needs
I don't think you've discussed this with me out of a desire to know my beliefs, but since you challenged them here they are: I think people need to understand and acknowledge that we are in a society and the things we do affect each other. I think when people come together as a team and one guy is a slacker, he gets cut from the team or he drags the team down. I think there is too much coddling in our society, to many signs to tell us where we can walk. I think we live in a society of savages, disgusting savages. I think the gov't is top heavy in this, the information age, and a restructuring is necessary for the future of this country (not your bipartisan rhetoric, true restructuring with a redistribution of power to the local and city level to give the people a voice again). I think people should spend more time minding their own business. I think none of this has to do with the original subject, which was high school students doing community service, but there you go.
What the hell are you going to "learn" new by picking up litter on the highway?
I doubt these youth would be picking up litter on the highway, but I'll humor you. I imagine they would learn that menial jobs suck and they better stay in school so they can get a decent job.
People, quit trying to dress up your agenda with fluffy-sounding words
I don't have an agenda, hell I'm so disappointed in our current system I didn't even vote. I'm much more worried about the control our corporate masters have over us than I am our ineffectual gov't.
Everything forced in school is relevant to education
Like the PE I was forced to do (per Reagans instruction)? What respectable learning did I achieve by swinging my arms and running?
You might as well ask kids to spend a night in jail so they can "learn" something
Why? Because everyone will end up in jail in their lifetime? Everyone will work someday, and they will probably start out in an entry level crappy job somewhere. This is like a practice job. Sure there will be plenty of people who won't learn anything from it, but that's already true of every class in High School.
Anyone who doesn't believe that people should be required to do "free work" for the government is OBVIOUSLY just trying to get a rise out of people!
And the 10-30% I pay in taxes isn't free labor for the gov't? We all pay our dues in some form,
That's a bit too much control for me.
I'm sorry you feel that way, personally I think the gov't should have enough control to make sure everyone is pulling their own weight, so that the people who fall to the point of least resistance aren't dragging me down. Taking something that a large portion of schools already do and establishing it as a standard across the board is pretty trivial.
SAGE
PE class was work in the sense of labor, and was entirely uneducational. It was also required.
All of these positions require you deal with people new people. And there's different degrees to any type of phobia.
When I worked at the fairgrounds I dealt with one person. One. Seriously, if you can't deal with new people you have bigger issues than school, and I am sure the board would accept a doctors note and excuse you from doing the community service.
You say it promotes "civic responsibility", but that's very vague, and very personally value-laden. Who are you to force your values on others?
There are litter laws because civic minded people wanted a cleaner city and rules were established that "force" you to not litter. Any difference? Not really. But the actual point of my saying "promotes civic responsibility" was aimed more towards the education of our youth. I can't force them to understand that we all (mostly) live under the same set of rules and we are all affected by each other's presence (my 'values'). But if you spend twenty hours cleaning a road, or assisting the library or working the fairgrounds, or any other of a number of assistance programs in play for publicly funded systems, you might learn something new about our society. And you might have less of a selfish I want it now because I'm special attitude. But prolly not.
Might as well have them work at Burger King for free. That's basically what this community service amounts to.
Provided I paid for burger king to run by way of my taxes, then yes that's what it is. And as far the "force" thing goes, well you are also forced by law to go to school (until age 15 I beleive), unless you can get your parents to sign off on some sort of homeschool project. Is that also unfair?
I'm starting to think you are just trolling here, and not genuine in your statements, and I hope I am wrong. I'll leave you with this: I like this country. We have lots of freedom. We also have lots of emptyheads. And emptyheads need direction (actually they need specific instructions). Kids are emptyheads, thus need direction. Evewryone needs to understand how to feed themsleves, how to work for money and how to get along with others. Many do not, and will lead long lives of debt and gov't support. I say not only should we force community service on the youth, but also everyone on welfare, or otherwise recieving gov't assistance to supplement their lack of those three abilities.
I was required to do 20 hours of community service to get my high school diploma (Douglas County HS, Colorado) and it was hardly a big deal. I went to the library and shelved books for a few weekends over the summer (Actually that was the second time, because apparantly I was too young when I did it the first time at the fairgrounds, where I worked by myself whitewashing a few bathrooms).
Community service for teens is a great idea: it reduces taxpayer burden for fulfilling menial tasks (not by alot, but it helps), it promotes civic responsibility, and it's a chance to see what it's like to have a job (hopefully it's crappy enough to keep you studying in school, lest you end up working there full time).
I am not going to make the leap you are suggessting, but I will say this: Your reason against mandatory community service was that you had social anxiety (you were scared). I don't mean to belittle your affliction, but as I have demonstrated there are plenty of positions you can take that don't involve dealing with people, and additionally if you have such crippling social anxiety that you cant work for 4 hours twice a week for 6 weeks, how are you even managing to go school?
Don't be silly, there are plenty of ways they could increase revenue if that was the goal. It's not. Read the FAQ I posted above, this is solely a measure taken to curb spam. Hell read the summary above, their donating their hooker fees to charity. Not one iota I mentioned was referring to craigslists lust for money, and I don't know where you came to that conclusion at all.
It might work in the Tech or professional sector, but it doesn't fly for lower class jobs or jobs in the restuarant/hospitality field, and for these groups craigslist was a real boon.
I'm sorry you had problems finding a job and got suckered into referral posts and the like, but separating the wheat from the chaff is expected when you have an unfiltered data set. Now that they have chosen to filter, the true value of the sight is diminished, as is it's uniqueness.
About two weeks ago they decided to "curb spammers" by charging $25 to list a help wanted ad. When questioned, they offer up a FAQ which states that "We've charged for jobs in San Francisco for 10 years, no destruction so far."
So one of the most expensive cities in the union is the base for comparison?
I'm seeing a trend and I'm not liking it.
Not to mention it's cheaper too.
I thought he did...
I wasn't familiar with sumatra untill you posted, and I have now installed and will give it a run. Thanks for the recommendation!
Foxit FTW
But if smoking inside were legal and I came up and pulled the cigarette out of your mouth and threw it in the garbage, then, clearly, I would be a tremendous asshole.
That's basically what the nanny-state lobbyists did when they took away the private owners right to choose whether or not to run an establishment which allows smoking. My original point was that no one should have the power to take away someones right to choose, and it looks like that was your point as well.
In someone else's bar or airport? No, you don't.
Same argument I made about banning smoking.
This is what I use
Thank you very much for helping me understand this. I really appreciate it.
Anything mentioned on the new Fox show Fringe.
Regarding your sig:
'Can someone explain to me why the () go inside the period, but the "" go outside the period?'
you just did it there. Why is the ? inside the quotes? Because it's part of my question? Should'nt it then be
you asked 'Can someone explain to me why the () go inside the period, but the "" go outside the period?'.
See what I mean? I'm not trying to be trite, I am honestly confused. If I quote the word time and say I need more "time", why is that incorrect?
Sounds like the smart move would be to combine the systems to get the best of both worlds (some sort of chemical/plasma/ion transmission system)
Some can't even spell it!
Seriously, though this is such a huge impossibility (right now). I've been wondering what the hell the financial experts were smoking when they engineered the real estate boom; apparantly they were buying it from the tech forecast experts.
That was exactly my point, it isn't about religon which is why such comparisons are flamebait (maybe the mods meant +1 incitefull?). Posting via palm, so forgive the brevity.
Which is the religion of peace again?
Which one bombs abortion clinics? Which one fathered the crusades? Which one preaches a violent and painful torture in the afterlife for non-believers?
I am appalled this flamebait is currently at +4 insightful, absolutely appalled.
That being said I don't want to hear anything from the Qu'Ran anymore than I want to hear passages from the Bible when I am playing videogames but I'll put up with it to avoid yet another advance for on the censorship front.
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/fennec/1.0a1/releasenotes/