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LittleBigPlanet Delayed Due To Qur'an-Sampling Audio
Several readers have pointed out that Sony's much-awaited LittleBigPlanet has hit a snag and will be delayed worldwide. The delay came after it was discovered that a song licensed for use in the soundtrack contained audio samples from the Qur'an. All advanced copies sent to retailers for the target release of October 21 in North America, 22 in PAL territories, and 24 in the UK and Ireland, have been recalled. "The post, by user 'Solid08', indicates of the specific references in the composition: 'In the 18th second: "kollo nafsin tha'iqatol mawt", literally: "Every soul shall have the taste of death' ... almost immediately after, in the 27th second: "kollo man alaiha fan", literally: "All that is on earth will perish."'"
A religion of peace...
So what if it has that there?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The Qur'an is out of copyright by now, so what's the problem?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I thought writing the lines in text was a reproduction just as much as the audio? Yet /. just posted them?
Or maybe I'm just confused and there is a difference between writing them and the audio copy.
Delayed PS3 game + angry gamers + Anon. internet forums + Western distrust of Islam = A lot of wasted /. Moderator points slaying trolls.
Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
Toumani Diabate's "Symmetrical Orchestra" sounds rather recent to me. But I could be wrong, feel free to find out.
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
It's not like some militant Islamic sect would burn down the distributor's house... oh, wait.
So I can publish games that include demons, prostitutes, foul language, and abhorrent levels of bloodshed and violence--just as long as it doesn't piss off a Muslim somewhere?
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Is that supposed to be offensive to someone? I dare say anyone with the background to understand the words and recognize them as a quote from an old religious tome would be unlikely to get too worked up.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I don't see the big deal here, since Muslims are supposed to want to distribute the Qur'an. But I can see how people would be extra paranoid about offending Muslims, since some of them take offense violently.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
Yeah? And? So? What?
I support the immediate recall of all games containing biblical samplings and verse references. /satire
It is well known that religious references are debase and cause conflict, therefore have no place in today's games
I'm really sick of these crazy islamonazis deciding what we can or can not read.
It's time for us to turn the tables on them and tell them what they can or can not listen to.
Andy Out!
The reason for the complaint is that apparently having the words of the qur'an set to music is highly offensive to muslims.
Not the same Sony who didn't see anything wrong with Manchester Cathedral being used in Resistance, despite the church itself complaining? Not that I think either should be grounds for a game to be pulled, but there is the faint stench of double standards...
Maybe they were afraid of being beheaded or murdered for making fun of the prophet?
Worse than a beheading maybe they were afraid of the copyright infringement.
Religion of peace?
the radicals and the terrorists win acceptance of the idea that they alone get to dictate how the world handles their pet delusion.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
My pvp guild in WoW says that EVERY DAY!!!!
Attention all planets of the Solar Federation! We have assumed control! - Neil Peart
Who fucking cares? Is the Qu'ran copyrighted or something? Stop coddling these bullshit religions.
There is a war going on for your mind.
Yeah, it's amazing how sensitive people can be when offending some religious group might get your building bombed or your artists shot or stabbed.
I think that if I can handle the impact of virtually beating someone with a baseball-bat, shooting them, stealing their car and hitting the strip club...I can handle a little subliminal apocalyptic chanting in a foreign language...
"There ought to be limits to freedom." -George W. Bush
It's all right — they only pulled the advanced copies. We'll still be able to get the standard edition on time.
Why is anything accosiated with religion soo taboo, is it really that big of a deal?! I for one am sick of tip toeing around for fear that something simple and innocuous will start a holy war
Noooooo! Don't take my Final Fantasy CDs away! Not my Evangelion! Not Ghost in the Shell!
Eno and Byrne had a song called with Quran verses in the 80's and they were told by some imam that it was blasphemy to put the words of god to "grooves" (Byrne's word I think), so they took the song off the album.
Umm, examples please?
It would be so much cheaper if they just payed for the sample instead of having a total recall. IDIOTS!
Uncle Mantis
If there is a fear of Islamic backlash or something, then it is completely baseless. Bohemian Rhapsody is the living proof of it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3593532.stm
What is insulting is delaying the game and blaming it on Muslims out of nowhere.
Assassin's Creed also comes to mind where a game has lots of Islamic references to it.
"'Every soul shall have the taste of death' ... 'All that is on earth will perish'"
I wonder what it is about the Muslim religion that causes so many Westerners to distrust their intents.
How many slashdot trolls had mod points today?
Seriously - this has meaning. The guess that they pulled the game because of fears over rioting/threats or actual violence is a pretty good guess given the "objectionable" content that's being removed from the game.
Would you think they'd have removed it for a couple of lines in Yiddish? Or a Biblical quotation, or a Celtic pagan quotation? You can be 100% sure that they wouldn't.
Give Parent Poster his karma back. This wasn't "flamebait."
If you can read this sig, congratulations, you have your glasses on!
"Either everything is OK or nothing is."
also, I have that eno/byrne track "qu'ran" from my life in the bush of ghosts. It's great. Fundies are nuts.
There is no right to "not to be offended". Especially when the group in question, or at least its more vocal components, respond to satire and criticism with riots, bombs, and assassination. In some parts of the world, all it takes is an ill-founded rumor that someone interprets as a slight to Islam to trigger riots and mob violence. The solution isn't to appease the mob. If people act like thugs, they should be treated like thugs.
Give us a call when you get tired of living in the dark ages.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Would that be the original release or the digitally remastered 5.1 version from just a couple of years ago? Personally, I prefer the vinyl version because digital just can't carry the warmth of Allah's vocals and that sweet guitar.
How many slashdot trolls had mod points today?
This was a great reply. Far too many people parrot "religion of peace, religion of peace" over and over again and have never done any serious study of what Islam actually says.
Give the PP his karma back. This wasn't a "flamebait" post, somebody abused the mod system. We lack a "-1 disagree" for a fucking reason, the mod system is NOT supposed to be used that way.
If you can read this sig, congratulations, you have your glasses on!
Buddha says I should forgive you and remind you that two wrongs don't make a right.
... and use the audio preview, will radicals go blow up Youtube?
Because I would be OK with that.
'a';DROP TABLE users; SELECT * FROM DATA WHERE name LIKE '%'... if you're reading this, it didn't work.
"Try Burma Shave." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma-Shave
did people start believing that they can live their whole lives without being offended? If we constantly pander to everyone who is offended by something and destroy it, in the end we will have no form of creative expression left.
With Sony's track record, I'm surprised they didn't choose to ship a rootkit that would make your machine 100% islam-free if you failed to identify yourself as one.
This whole situation angers me. If religion is outside of governments, school systems and pretty much all of the social infrastructure, then why is it dictating gaming policies?
... the licensed LBP soundtrack song 'Tapha Niang' by Muslim artist Toumani Diabate's Symmetrical Orchestra uses voice excerpts from the Qur'an in its musical composition.
We Muslims consider the mixing of music and words from our Holy Quran deeply offending.
What's this "we" shit?
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
I'm convinced that this sort of thing is a last gasp amongst the extremists to hold onto the old ways. The fact is that the world is changing and nobody can stop it. The Middle East is being exposed to the outside world via the internet and other media. The religious hardliners are realizing that they're losing their hold on the people and I suppose like most people they don't like change.
I realize American imperialism is brought up as the reason for this violence. But I'm convinced that's bullshit. The widespread dissemination of foreign cultures is the more real and subtle threat.
I think it's similar to certain Christian groups in this country coming out trying to denounce evolution and force creationism on people. Deep down they realize their religion is being marginalized and are grasping at straws trying to make it relevant.
The problem is that they're confusing a crumbling power structure for faith when the two aren't connected. There's no reason whatsoever why a person can't be devoutly religious and still accept science and progress.
The key difference, however, is that Muslim extremists are more likely to blow things up to get their way, or at least threaten to do so. Sure, you get the occasional Christian nut who tries to shoot an abortion doctor or something, but that's the extent of it. But Christians consistently denounce the act. On the other hand, at best Muslims won't say anything at all and at worst will run into the streets in celebration.
But ultimately these small victories are insignificant in the long run. And having heard some guys complaining about how Middle Eastern is growing increasingly liberal the days of religious extremism are numbered.
Political correctness has crippled America. By no means am I endorsing bigotry and racism, but we should be able to have open discourse about issues without it devolving into claims of racism.
The percentage of the Muslim population in the US is .6% to 1%. The last time I checked we still had free speech and the presence of this passage in a game is not intentionally offensive from what I can tell.
When Andres Serrano dumped a crucifix in urine and photographed it he wasn't banned from displaying his work. Hell, a nun actually stated in an interview that the work was not blasphemous but rather an example of what people have done to Christ.
how come any time someone talks about what's wrong in the Muslim faith, the knee jerk reaction is from a bunch of /b/tards who want to shit all over other religions?
This has nothing to do with the argument, and NeutronCowboy's argument is "crap" as he puts it. It is entirely possible for MULTIPLE religions to be wrong and trying to distract from Islam's problems by attacking another religion is a poor debate tactic, a desperate attempt to distract the argument from something he knows he can't honestly defend.
Remember, hell is exothermic.
If you can read this sig, congratulations, you have your glasses on!
unbelievably hilarious this is milliones of dollars down the tubes the song!!!!!! and it's in arabic too!!! http://www.myspace.com/toumanidiabate TAPHA NIANG!! CLICK IT
Here's one:
But that's rather beside the point. Suicide bombings are committed almost exclusively in defense of homeland against occupying forces (or, rather, the belief that such a thing is occurring), especially forces of a different religion, and especially when those doing the defending live in relative poverty. There are very few cases of countries with poor, heavily Christian populations that are occupied by people of other religions. Ergo, hardly any Christian suicide bombings.
"Hmm... do religions of peace say things like:"
Gets 4, Insightful, then the above posting -- even though by an Anonymous Coward -- should ALSO, for quoting parallels from the bible (which probably are correctly or faithfully quoted, and as yet i see no allegations that AC falsely quoted the bible...) get 4, Insightful, or 4, Informative.
Where is the balance?
Also, I JUST LAST WEEK (IIRC) mentioned in /. that Sony or other some other game maker had sampled music from an Eastern religion/faith around the early 2000's and had to yank back all those released copies for having offended the religion in question.
One would think that a major games producer would not let that one happen again. Seems to me they are courting a religious war or at least risk of one. If not Sony's HQ, then it has defiant, ignorant, or belligerent employees who sampled, inserted, and released the snippets under some misguided assumption that a few seconds here and there won't have negative consequences. In aggregate, they are exposing copyrighted, strenuously defended music that *some* one or many out there will take great umbrage to the use of in a video game. Doesn't matter that many religions' bibles or truth books themselves contain orders to slay/crush/burn/purge/etc. And, even if it was a "good/free PR move/stunt", automakers themselves try to slay/slash/burn/sue those who try to give their cars free rep in videos, movies, and documentaries, even though the cars in in plain public view and are not afforded privacy.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
It should be filed under "Jihadist Humor", you insensitive infidel!
Video games a chock-a-block full of references to symbols and themes from Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism. Some references are serious. Some are frivolous. Some are disparaging. Yet we accept that games, which are part of our cultural expression, are allowed to comment on religion. There is only one religion which causes adherents to become so upset over the least mention.
... and I know a lot about Islam. I teach it to other Muslims. Yes, the religion teaches that the Quran must not recited in conjunction with music. It must be vocal only, although most of the reciters inflect their voice so that it is beautiful to hear, much like music is. The musician that Sony licensed it from should be contacted about it. I wouldn't blame Sony for it. But I can see why some Muslims might be offended by it. Grow up. It's only two phrases, not an entire passage. I personally think it is kind of cool to have it in a game, as long as it is innocuous and not used to promote an anti-Islamic agenda (other posters here have cut and pasted text for that). "Bismillah" ("in the name of God") is in The Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen and I love it everytime I hear it. And then Beelzebul shortly thereafter takes me back to the D&D days...
Bible == Terrorist Qur'an
most of you have no true understanding of religion or the 'BIBLE'. Remember that the bible that most of you study has been culled and edited and re-purposed by the lyceum hundreds of years ago.
Some of the same versus from the qu'ran and the torah were all part of the bible, when it was available in it's entirety. If you don't believe me do some research.
Second, Islam, like christianity, and judaism is man's creation. what people take away from what they read or are taught is not the design of god. ANY GOD. Why else would ther be so many 'denomination' (sp?) (or Tribes)? ie. pentecostal, baptist, sunni, shi-ite, hassidic?
Religion is the design of man, and his want to control what he cannot control. Spiritualism is the understanding that there is some god, somewhere....
The Church of England got miffed when one of their churches was featured prominently in one of the levels of Resistance: Fall Of Man. This is a seemingly bigger offense than including a couple snippets of the Quran, yet Sony refused to recall the game.
gay.
To paraphrase J.T. Kirk - "What does a God need with money?"
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
If anyone recalls, the original release of Legend of Zelda, Ocarina of Time, used the muslim call to prayer as a component of the theme music to the fire temple which generated some controversy. It was replaced in future releases (as well as a modification to the design on the mirror shield which also used some religious imagery. It's possible to argue that people were overreacting to find that snippet of music controversial, when other religious music and themes seem to have been used in the game without concern such as gregorian chant in the temple of time, a mishmash of eastern religious imagery in the desert temple, etc. On the other hand, the call to prayer is extremely integral to Islam. It is traditionally called out from a minaret five times a day to signal prayer times. Considering that Islam has some fairly strong prohibitions against idolatry and fire worship in particular (due to an association with zoroastrianism, although from what I understand, it's a largely incorrect one). So it is understandable that some muslims could get upset at someone using one of islams most important prayers and associating it with a paganistic fire temple. It's not islam in particular either. There are fundamentalist Christian groups that raise a fuss every time an upside down cross or the black mass appears in a movie or game. Most of the time no-one bothers to accommodate them (unless they really, really want to get their game onto wal~mart shelves). That's at least in part because most of these groups are in the US, and most of the US is christian of some flavor or another(christianity is the state religion as far as many people, including most of those in authority, are concerned) so the population feels like it collectively "owns" christian imagery, whereas imagery from other religions is more off-limits. It's the same for other things. Jews are generally very comfortable making jokes about wholesale prices and nosejobs, black people are pretty comfortable with the dreaded n-word, no-one can get mad at anyone whose name ends in -ski for making polish jokes, etc. So, as much as I'm for freedom of speech, I also recognize that some of it can make people upset and you shouldn't needlessly insult them, on the other hand, if this sort of thing were applied to every cultural, religious, and racial reference, we wouldn't have a lot left to work with.
Mohammed... well, you know about him. :P
Jesus, when the mob came for him, surrendered and said "do as you will."
Buddha preached peace after giving up the war he had been trained for and seeking enlightenment.
Joseph Smith, when the mob came for him, pulled a gun someone had smuggled him and went down shooting. To the Mormons, he "died a martyr's death." Whether you call him a martyr or not, he certainly didn't go down peacefully.
Krishna had his whole army fight for him, "personally" refused to raise a weapon, but DID serve as a warlord's charioteer (Bhagavad Gita). Interestingly, he was charioteer for the side fighting AGAINST his own army.
And for L. Ron Hubbard... do a quick search on "Fair Game" policy and "Auditing Process R2-45" (which, paraphrased, is "shoot them with a colt 45"). Hubbard ordered this personally on at least five different occasions including March 6, 1968 when he ordered 12 people to be killed.
"Many Noodly Caresses to you, my followers".
There are plenty of more general ones, or which had been interpreted as still applying.
E.g., Joan d'Arc was burned at the stake for the heresy of... wearing men's clothes. So that's one commandment which wasn't interpreted as only applying to a certain point in time. The various bits of mysoginism in the bible were not only still applied as late as the 20'th century in some parts, but some bible-belt fundies still cling to them as an argument for male supremacy.
E.g., "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" was still applied jolly well in the renaissance, and in some places as late as the 1800's. As in, really, the last documented case we have is from 1811. Heck, in the USA the witch trials were in 1692 to 1693. We're talking _almost_ 1700's, FFS.
Nobody took it as, basically, "ah, well, it only applied to the times in the Exodus."
E.g., all those commanded massacres actually pain a rather consistent image: for spreading heresy or rather religion among the Lord's folks, the punishment is complete genocide. It's not a big extrapolation to make that that's generally what the Lord wishes, since every single time that's what he commanded. And it's not just my interpretation, but Moses's too: in Numbers he acts surprised that the soldiers didn't kill those women and children in the first place. I mean, duh, it should have been obvious. He doesn't go, "ok, you did well to wait and see if the Lord commands mass-murder in this speciffic case", but as if it should have been obvious that that's what's expected.
Etc.
Now you may point out that we decided to be civilized and no longer apply that crap. Guess what? Most modern muslims aren't islamists either.
But at any rate, it's stuff that _we_ decided to no longer apply. In the "good book", it's still there.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Scientology? Oh wait, you said "religion." Thought ya said "pyramid scheme." Nevermind...
There are some online importers who still have copies of the game. National Console Support Inc. may have a few copies left, but they have been going fast now that the game has been indefinetly recalled. You might want to check with other importers to see if they have any copies left in stock.
I've got one on the way for delivery tomorrow, cause really I don't give a flying ratass about who's religion is saying what. Less religion, more faith. You all can go argue while im going to get back to waiting to play LBP tomorrow.
Nah, they just block it.
~ I am logged on, therefore I am.
Exactly. That's why I fully support it when we go into Muslim countries and kill their people. Overall, it reduces the violence.
Yet all of the Muslims I've ever met are charming, peaceful friendly people. Big on family values, very law abiding, and socially responsible.
You probably haven't gotten to know them very well. The majority of people are dishonest, hypocritical, untrustworthy and at least condone some measure of violence against their opponents. This is despite any religious or political facade that underlies the way they think and act.
Show me a "family values" person and chances are that they are intolerant, prejudiced, and hypocritical.
Oh great! Nerds discussing religion ... way to go!
(Please forgive the length of this post, but this discussion brings up several interesting points that should avoid any religious biases.)
Their use of the phrase "We Muslims" should make sense, actually.
It is common (at least in my experience from hearing from clergy from numerous religions) for clergy to speak on behalf of the entire religion or belief system, so if this request came from an Imman, it should not surprise anyone that he (are there ever female Immans?) would say "We Muslims" or simply "Muslims", though the use of "We" there implies a clear separation between the speaker and the audience, implying that the audience in this case are not Muslims. (1) Christian clergy will often make statements regarding the beliefs of "Christians" in a very general sense, again speaking for the religion.
It is also far too common for extremists of any sort to arrogate to themselves the position of speaking for the entire group, either in simple terms such as the phrase "We Muslims", or in slightly more arrogant terms such as "True Christians..." (implying, of course, that anyone who disagrees with them is not a "true" Christian.) (2)
Unfortunately, there is not quite enough information (especially given the post to which this a response) to determine the exact nature of those making the initial request.
If setting the words of their holy texts to music is truly considered offensive to the majority interpretation of their texts(3), then I applaud the game publisher for being respectful of people's beliefs. If this, however, is only a minority or extremist position, then I feel sorry for the publisher for having given in to the pressure of extremists.
Notes:
(1) I do not speak any Semitic language, but I find it interesting that Chinese (at least Mandarin) has two pronouns that can be translated as "we", "wo3 men", which is a general form such as used in English, and "zan2 men", which specifically includes the listener. American Sign Language has a stronger distinction between a speficically inclusive first person plural pronoun and a specifically exclusive first person plural pronoun. (Actually, the specificity is a side-effect of the nature of signed languages in general. Signed languages have some very fascinating characteristics that I suspect some folks on Slashdot would find interesting.) Also, ASL's second person plural pronouns can do that, clearly specifying a subset of the listeners and optionally including non-present parties.
Any Arabic speakers care to comment on first person plural pronouns in Arabic?
(2) I consider the "True Christian" comment more arrogant because it is claiming that other people who claim to be believers but do not agree with the speaker are deceived and are not really Christians. The "We Muslims" phrase, at least on the surface, grants acceptance to anyone who claims to be a Muslim.
(3) I am aware of at least one "sect" of Christianity (some consider it a cult) that objects to the use of musical instruments in worship (yes, there are Old Testament examples, but their claim is based on the fact that there are no New Testament examples), but I am not aware of any other religion that objects to any setting of their texts to music, a capella or accompanied. If my memory serves, the Psalms were specifically set to music (including various musical terms such as "maskil" and "selah" being used) to aid in memorization of the texts. I find it curious that any religion would object to setting their texts to music when it is fairly widely known that setting something to music makes it easier to memorize.
I completely agree that there needs to be the ability to have an open discussion about religion in this country given that the United States draws its strength from it's diversity. However, even if you do not agree with another person's views, you should at least attempt to respect them enough not to be intentionally offensive.
According to TFA, all that was posted to the forum was:
"We Muslims consider the mixing of music and words from our Holy Quran deeply offending. We hope you would remove that track from the game immediately via an online patch, and make sure that all future shipments of the game disk do not contain it."
There were no threats of jihad or bombings. No one has been killed. It was a simple and reasonable request.
While I'm all for free speech, does the passage add value to the game? It sounds like it is being used as background sounds that 98% of gamers will never pay attention to let alone understand. It could just as easily be replaced by Klingon passages and have the same effect.
To leave it passages in when it adds nothing just to prove a point seems petty and spiteful rather than adding anything to the national discussion. It would be as if I wore a t-shirt with a picture of an aborted fetus to a Christian rally at a park. It doesn't add anything and is designed to offend those particular people.
The /. responses have been overwhelmingly negative towards Muslims, yet their sole input (in the form of the forum response) has probably been the most understanding and civilized I have read in this string.
On the other hand, the US is currently on a "crusade" (the commander in chief's gallant words, not mine) in the middle east. How many people has that killed? How many pagan indians (take your pick whether from india or the americas) have been killed off (not so incredibly distant in history) by upright, peaceful christians. Now, I know what you're thinking, that's not religious, that's just plain old race hatred. Well, whatever.
"Every soul shall have the taste of death, all that is on earth will perish."
Every post so far has concentrated on it being removed to appease the muslims, but maybe they just removed it because it's f'ing creepy, and this is supposed to be a kid's game?
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
I know the Ur'Quan are a malevolent bunch, but I would have thought they'd see this as fair use.
Wait - how was that spelled?
That minority is about to pass a gay marriage ban in liberal California.
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool" - Jane Wagner -
If you want a large corporation to respect your wishes you must present a clear and present danger to their personal safety.
Sadly, I am sure other fringe groups are receiving this message loud and clear.
The Prophet Muhammad revealed the Holy Q'uran around 622AD. Therefore its out of copyroght now. (Just like the Bible)
However I do think that the Holy Writings need to be treated with respect.
Thanks for asking.
The Noodly appendages of FSM command you to rise up and slay with Prego sauce anyone who offends His Noodliness by including words of wisdom from his Great Cookbook in their songs or slashdot posts. Unless, of course, proper accrediting is given, including a sprinkle of oregano and paprika.
Bearded Dragon
If you want people to take your religion seriously you had better have nukes.
That's why the 'Church of the SubGenius' has three.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Oh no! Stop, the words hurt... oh they hurt so much, especially fairy tale death threats from hypocrite religious writings.
I'm so fragile.
Thanks Sony.
As you correctly point out:
- definitive tiers of haves and have-nots based on who's a member of the official state religion
- wipe out anyone who doesn't believe in the state-sponsored religion
Many places where muslims are in the majority are rotten. Then again many places in southern Africa are even worse. But that is the reason why many muslims love places like Europe or America with religous freedom, because they can practice their form without fear of persecution from the majority kind of Islam. Just like the many christians that fled (christian) religious persecution in Europe just two centuries ago. You do remember what Halloween was all about?
Anyways, if you research christianity you will find just as many references to violence in theory (bible) as well as history (crusades) and current affairs (bloody fighting between christian and muslim villages in Indonesia).
Ya, I'd give Sony the benefit of the doubt here. "Offensive" and "controversial" just might not be image they're looking for in this title. If their self-censorship undermined a critical plot point I could see getting upset about this, but this sounds like it's some throwaway background track that isn't worth the hassle.
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool" - Jane Wagner -
The prior Pope did actually explicitly apologize for the crusades, among other things.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1071456
The current Pope has also apologized for other failings of the Catholic church.
And you need to put this together with the fact that the track has been released on an album recorded by a Muslim artist (Toumani Diabaté), backed by musicians who are mostly Muslims too. Clearly, many Muslims don't object to this.
Are you adequate?
I have the album that song comes from. If I remember correctly (from the liner notes), the song is an hommage to the singer's late brother.
The musicians are mostly from Mali, but the singer is from Senegal, and this one song is primarily in Wolof. Nearly all of the musicians are in the record are Muslims, so they'd indeed be familiar with koranic language. And clearly, they don't seem to think that it's objectionable for Muslims to use Koranic quotations in music.
Are you adequate?
I've played video games with songs that make bible references, but the Qur'an is taboo? Is there something about the religion itself that makes it sacrelidge to be quoted in a song/game or something?
(Bible ^ Qur'an) == Sesame Street
What about the people of Mali, a majority Muslim country, who're having the music of one of their major artists pulled from the game?
Are you adequate?
You might want to rethink your priorities. Slaughtering children, babies and people warrants no comment but "hamstring their horses" gets 'exceedingly cruel'?
It's also worth pointing out that all these are from the Old Testament. By the New Testament God has mellowed somewhat...or, more to the point, the people writing the books have. Unlike the Koran I don't think that anyone believes that the bible is, verbatim, the word of God (certainly not mainstream christianity) but rather the word as interpreted by humans who were around at the time.
If the soundtrack featured "Hallowed Be Thy Name" by Iron Maiden, would the game be delayed? Would we be having this dicussion?
No.
If this was an attempt to negatively portray Islam, I'd agree with removing it - hate speech should not be being disseminated by any company with half a brain. But to remove content simply because of a vocal minority (especially one that is not usually even part of the target audience) is absurd!
Somehow I don't see many Muslims protest against Muslims who call for the distruction of Israel and killing of all Jews. Neither I see many Muslims condemn 9-11... So I say: screw the two-faced bastards. We cave in to this, so what's next? Obligatory chadras for all Western women cause it offends some Muslim idiots? There's a lot of idiots out there, but the Muslim ones seem especially idiotic... ...and I'm not even an American, a Jew, or a Christian... Why don't American Muslims ever organize protest marches against Muslim bigotry?
If they don't allow pictures of Mohammed, how do they know what ht looks like?
How then, would they recognize a picture of him to bitch about?
The same kind of problem was levelled against "Eyes Wide Shut" and its use of a sacred Hindu text.
My web domain.
Finally someone who shows a bit more insight than the usual "Izlams are gunna behead Sony haw haw haw" dumbfucks. Not every Muslim is Osama bin Laden and globalization is changing things for them as well.
Anyway, I think Sony did this because they thought they'd sell more copies of the game this way. Any complaints should go to Sony for thinking such a thing, not to Islam for... well, I don't know. It's not even a free speech issue because the song wasn't supposed to carry a message in the game. They just accidentally used those Qur'an bits and then removed the songs when someone told them. Nothing more, nothing less.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Pete Seeger and The Byrds are recalling all copies of "Turn! Turn! Turn! (to Everything There is a Season)", because somehow or another parts of the Bible got into it. Search your old vinyl and ship it back!
There's cowering from bullies, and there's annoying your friends. Changing something to avoid offending someone isn't new, and it isn't being bullied. It's being polite.
If you don't know anything of the Qur'an, would you notice the difference from one bit of Arabic chanting from another? So what did you lose, a few days to play the game?
Yeah, it could be such a small sample that even people who know what to listen for wouldn't really notice, and this could be seen as being hyper-sensitive to concerns of others, but it's also good for some PR. "Hey, we realized we had some possibly offensive material in this game, we'll get it to you a bit later and update things" goes over a lot better than irate parents demanding to know why their religion is being mocked.
Hinduism, Buddhism is the only true religion that teach peace. "Live and let live" =)
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go free as male slaves do." --Exodus 21:7 Condoning the selling of one's daughter into slavery, grooovy. "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, [shall be] of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids." --Leviticus 25:44 Condoning the possession of slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. "Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death." --Exodus 35:2 Guess I'll just pop into Target on a Sunday and smite all the employees. "[On the other hand], all creatures in seas and rivers that do not have fins and scales, whether they are small aquatic animals or other aquatic creatures, must be avoided by you." --Leviticus 11:10 Hmmm, guess that those eating shrimp at the Red Lobster should also be smote! "Do not cut off the hair on the sides of your head. Do not shave off the edges of your beard." --Leviticus 19:27 DAMN! I just shaved. Guess I have to smite myself. "The hare shall be unclean to you although it brings up its cud, since it does not have a true hoof. The pig shall be unclean to you although it has a true hoof which is cloven, since it does not chew its cud. Do not eat the flesh of any of these animals. [At this time] do not touch their carcasses, since they are unclean to you." --Leviticus 11:6-8 Damn, guess all the NFL quarterbacks need smiting!
I think I'm safe in saying that any creature that would kill, threaten death or even massively disrupt other's ways of life over a story they were told, no matter how vivid, at an adult age and refuse all education to the contrary, is both pathetic and dangerous.
I don't quite care what they call the thing they worship, be it a Jesus or a Mohammad or a Xenu or a Noodle.
In the same way that that old lady, who I'm sure is delightfully friendly to her neighborhood children, told John McCain that Barack Obama scared her because he was 'Arab', there are otherwise nice people who fall into a trap of ignorance.
Society encourages it, the corrupt with power encourage it, and persistent habits of old encourage it.
The fix is the children. In the end, the best defense we have against these sad individuals is to educate the children as much as we can.
We already see it working. How many younger voters(early twenties and around), especially the educated ones, really care Obama is black?
How many middle class youth in North America and Europe would really hate someone purely because they are Muslim?
Are there truly evil people out there? Yes. Sociopaths still permeate. However, they rely on their army remaining witless.
I personally disagree with organized religion in general. I think it's a dangerous tool abused by dangerous people. I forgot who said "Evil men will do evil things, but for good men to do evil, that takes religion."
But I can't fault someone for following it. I grew up catholic with the most liberal parents I can think of, yet it -still- took me quite a few years to realize I was praying to a ceiling, not a God. Not everyone can give up that comfort. Especially if they have other pressures applied to them.
And all that was encouraged upon me by my former Church was that I should treat others as I wish to be treated myself(they were very liberal for Roman Catholics). I'd probably be a very different man if the priest told me to knife anyone who used the lord's name in vain.
Does "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust" sound familiar?
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Unfortunately, Slashdot doesn't let you post Arabic characters, but it is the rightmost word in the following page: http://www.howtosayin.com/say/arabic/oops+I+did+it+again.html
(literally it means "pardon")
But seriously, poor LittleBigPlanet. What a tough break. That has to be expensive.
The miserable conditions of labourers during the industrial revolution are legendary. Child labour was quite common adn women rights were non existent.
A woman without a man to support her was condemned to abject poverty.
Honestly, were do you guys learn history?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
...and you've put your finger on something relevant to the present case, too. The song in question is from West Africa, and the singer in that track is Senegalese (the group is from Mali). Sufi brotherhoods dominate Senegalese Islam.
Are you adequate?
I lived in a Muslim country and have visited several others, I also have Muslim friends in non Muslim countries.
First of all in countries were Muslims are not forced to fast you will find many that do not fast. Once they have the same freedoms as everybody else this becomes a matter of personal choice.
In countries were fasting is mandatory well, what are you supposed to do? (they do have religious police in those places).
Not all Muslims memorize the Holly Quoran, it certainly is studied assiduously and it certainly is well received if you can memorize it, but by no means is common.
Not all Muslim men have beards. This happens only in some very backwards countries. In other countries this is a non issue.
Muslim women dress modestly certainly, but there is a spectrum of interpretation. IN Indonesia and Malaysia women wear trousers, the ones that don't wear colorful batik dresses with flowers, this would be unthinkable in Saudi Arabia or parts of Afghanistan. In Turkey you will see plenty of local women wearing modern western clothes and mini skirts.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It was pointed out to Sony the happening of these verses (which Muslim faith considers improper to reproduce with music).
Then Sony took the decision as we know it.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I don't think there is any such tenet; you can find plenty of examples of Muslims citing parts of the Quran without citing the rest. There are two things I can think of which I think are relevant:
So this means there are two likely avenues of objection to the use of a line of the Quran in a song in a videogame: (a) the line is taken out of context, and its true meaning distorted; (b) the line is being used in a musical piece that incites sin (and some might judge all music to incite sin, while others would strongly disagree).
Did anyone else read the summary as a copyright infringement of Star Control? The quote translations really seemed to fit what the Ur'Quan are all about...
The difference here is that Islam has a much, much bigger emphasis on textual integrity of scripture.
Remember that, according to Islam, God first revealed his book to the Jews, and then later to the Christians, but both distorted the text and the meaning; only the Muslims have a correct version of the book. Because of this, Muslims are supposed to be very careful about how the text of the Koran is used. For example, they are encouraged to learn Arabic so they can read it in the original. Even if they don't know Arabic, when they discuss religious matters in their native languages, they prefer to use the Arabic words for religious concepts instead of vernacular translations. When citing the Koran, it is very important to convey the context of the quote carefully, so as not to distort the meaning. Etc.
Compare this with, say, the widespread acceptance and official sanction of Bible translations among Christian denominations (e.g., the Vulgata and the King James translation). In Islam, translations of the Koran are at best seen as a necessary evil, and are certainly not given any official sanction.
Are you adequate?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Hi -
I'm sorry, I tried for many years to be tolerant, even after Sept 11th, but event after event (even going back to the "death sentence" on Salmon Rushdie) has convinced me that a lot of Muslims are simply nuts. If people find that offensive, fine. I find many actions of the global Muslim community to be offensive.
If people are killed in riots over cartoons, then I'm sure Sony has to remove this from the game or else face the possibility of violent bombers attacking them in the real world.
It seems to me that the Muslim religion has little to do with peace, but a lot to do with overt sexism, intolerance and violence.
- Callous in California
We should find all references to pirates and things in games and then complain on behalf on behalf of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
And the swarthy outraged mobs can arson to their retarded little heart's desire.
its about context .. if somebody included a script from the bible in playboy magazine , will Christians be happy?
Stupid people wasting their time on insignificant things. Nothing and no one can save you. Abandon hope now. Accept that you are a semi-evolved ape thing mercifully ignorant of the sanity-blasting truths of the greater cosmos.
WTF?! How did you forget Saudi Arabia in your "wealthiest" are democracies silliness!?! Did you happen to look up ANY of your "facts"?!
Hint: They're ALL bullshit!
Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
Awww...I was really hoping all this christian-muslim flaming was gonna break the 1000 post barrier...*sigh*...now my life has no meaning.
Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
I wonder how much overlap there is between those that don't want a couple lines from the Qur'an quoted in a song in a videogame, and those that want intelligent design to be taught in science class.
A religion is a social group, you can see this clearly if you ever are outside a church/temple/mosque after a session. This is especially true for muslim immigrants. NOT because they are muslim, but because they started out with little else. All imigrants tend to cluster together, to a place they can be among their own, follow their own traditions, remember the good old times, talk about going back but never actually doing it of course.
It is hard to break out of a social group and a social group can only function if it doesn't allow its members to leave. It is the nature of being a group. If you do not try to 'protect' your members, keeping them close, then you are not a group.
It really isn't about religion. African americans have got the same social pressure groups trying to keep blacks black and any who try to break out are pulled back in.
Part of the problem is that if you try to leave your native group, you will for always be an outcast. A black person living a white/asian/jewish life or whatever will still never truly be that. If you see a black amish guy, what do you see first. Amish or black? I use the skin color black because it is so obvious.
A muslim immigrant who truly intigrates into western society, and there are plenty, will still for always be considered by his new home to be an outsider. And of course an outcast by his old group. Having lived in foreign countries, it ain't that easy to always be the foreigner, the stranger. Sometimes it is just easier to stick with what you know because at least those people seem to accept you for you are. They don't, they only accept you if you are them, but at least they accept you.
Muslims are hardly the only homophobes on this earth and there are plenty of homosexual muslims. Part of the reason this sentiment seems so strong among muslims is because it allows them to have a clear identifier that differences them from their new society.
Basically, they got a choice, what fundemental rule do we follow.
Muslims are required by their faith to donate a percentage of their income to charity. So if you want to call yourself muslim, pay 10% of you salary. Nah.
Muslims are required by their faith to abstain from stimulants. So if you want to call yourself muslim, you got to stop smoking, drinking, chocolate etc etc. Nah.
Muslims are required by their faith to pay to the direction of Mekka 3 times a day. So if yu want to call yourself muslim your entire day schedule is dictated by your religion. Nah.
Muslims are required by their faith to look down onto gays. So if you if you want to call yourself muslims as a young teen in a world that doesn't like you and thinks you are the lowest form of life, you have to look down on another group. WINNER!
By that way, other groups got similar problems. US citizens when looking at the heroes and cowards of the world have two choices:
Look at their own war history, arriving late for every World War, getting their ass kicked in korea and having to settle for the current ceasefire. Being kicked out of vietnam. Being kicked out of somalie. Late the balkin wars and doing nothing to stop it. Afraid to interfere in various holocausts. Getting their ass kicked in Iraq and Afghanistan. Withdrawing after some suicide bombings etc etc. Nah
Look at the french war history where a country under massive attack surrundered after months of fighting with half the forces refusing to give up and to continue fighting no matter the risk and call them cheese eating surrender monkeys. WINNER!
Human nature. It ain't pretty.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The Torah (note the H) is a precise document, it has to be copied ACCURATELY. Part of the problem is that Hebrew is a hellish language with plenty of possibilities for errors if it is not perfectly written. Just the slightest error changes might change the meaning.
Torah scrolls, those long rolls of parchments on two spindles, are therefor made by hand by trained scribes. This takes a long time, well over a year and makes these items very expensive. Luckily, these scrolls are ONLY needed for official occasions.
What you are talking about here is the Torah scrolls for religious occasions. NOT the Torah itself. The document itself may be reproduced no matter how you want it. Yes, you may photocopy a Torah scroll.
But the 'prop' used during official occasions is to be an accurate copy of the 'original' with no alterations of any kind. Be they translations, errors, updates, corrections etc etc. It is to keep the text pure. The reason why this is so important is that with hand-copying over hundred of years it is trivial to slip in errors. We all know the new testament has been edited numerous times and that entire testaments have been edited out. To keep 'jews' 'jews' you have to keep the same text.
So, the Torah may be copied anyway you want, but the official Torah scrolls MUST, to avoid errors, be copied by exactly, and since doing this by hand was the only way, were are copied by hand by trained scribes AND checked before being certified.
Your post is sadly rather typical of peoples understanding of religions. They hear something, that in a way is true but fail to understand the why and how.
To translate. A zip file containing the source code for a gnu project must contain the gnu license. Conclusion, gnu code must be put into zip files.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
And exploiters, geez, everyone knows suicide belts are way overpowered and just have to get nerfed ASAP in a patch. But the dev's just LOVE their muslim fundementalists.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Subject says it all.
Expect RIAA planes to head to a sky-craper near you, real soon.
mind you, is sueing random citizens, threatening their financial security not a form of terrorism?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Actually, I can tell you what kind of "deal" the woman and her father got out of the "the rapist must marry her" mentality, because in some places (e.g., Eastern Europe) some places still worked like that as late as the 19'th and early 20'th century. Even if not legally, but the mentality that a raped woman is dishonoured and can't be married otherwise, still created that kind of situations.
Well, let's say you're rich and have a daughter. Whoppee! Now I can rape her and you must marry her to me. It creates _incentive_ for rape. It's a perfectly good way to marry into a richer family. Probably tens of thousand of young women, got raped by the village bum who wanted to climb the social ladder that way.
Something which would have been at most a social matter between said village bum and the rich father, gets taken out on a girl who doesn't have any fault in either.
You also have to put it into context that the ancient times had a chronic shortage of women. Other people went to _war_ to get a wife as spoils of war. (Abominable too, mind you.) But now, with the Lord's blessing, you have a guaranteed way to just pick an unmarried girl and she's forced to be your wife. Just go rape her. If that's not incentive for rape, I don't know what is.
And, hey, not only she got raped, but now she's also mandatorily saddled with a psychopathic husband who thought low enough of her and of his fellow human to see rape as just another tool in his arsenal. Yeah, that'll be a happy marriage.
It's as crap a deal as saying that, hey, if I kick you in the balls, I also get to fuck you up the arse. That should soothe your pain, right?
And the fact that the Bible sanctions that kind of a crap deal, doesn't make it some kind of mercy for someone who would have been raped anyway, it makes it yet another evil text that encouraged that rape in the first place.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I think we need to work together and get EVERY game with a quote from the Bible banned as well to show how stupid there ruling is.
Please, someone that can kill those muslim bastards once and for all.
And we, christians, are SO STUPID that we eat whatever those idiots send to us. We need URGENTLY the last crusade and erase these fundamentalists.
Every decent video game I've played in the past 20 years has contained lines like this. I personally have never read any Islamic religious materials, yet I have uttered similar phrases in many an online game...
Gawd forbid that the Kilrathi are now Muslim idealists...
That computer was worked on by an egotistical maniac with a revenge demon on his shoulder!
Anyway, thinking twice on this matter... it's better on this way, so I don't have any muslim shit in my home which is considered by us very, but very offensive.
Wow, could you imagine if Christians were still angry, screaming people who cut off the heads of people they disagreed with? Like half of Japanese animation and video games would have to be pulled because of misappropriated Christian iconography and themes!
Dear Islamists: You want to interact with Western civilizations? Then learn to take your lumps. It is our tradition to grind up our sacred cows, mix them with a little bit of garlic, cracked black pepper, sea salt, throw them on the grill and make hamburgers out of 'em. The things nobody thinks should be made fun of are precisely the things that should. There's nobody more full of shit than a religious literalist fundamentalists and people like that need deflating, like lancing a boil.
But seriously, did anybody even threaten to cut off heads here or is this just a preemptive pussification, cowering over the mere possibility that this could get turned into Dutch political cartoons?
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
"Happy shall he be who taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"
Psalm 137, verse 9
The Bible. Sounds pretty peaceful.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
Crying over having to wait another week for LBP. You know what? Now it is scheduled for release the same day as Fallout 3... that sucks... how will I determine which to play first?
Half of the 9/11 bombers had engineering degrees.
Osama bin Laden is a billionaire heir to a construction fortune. His major monetary backers are Saudi Arabian princes.
Of the 7/11 bombers (London bus bombings), Shehzad Tanweer's father is considered a prominent local businessman. He owns a successful fish-and-chop shop, the kind of entrepreneurial success that Americans would classify as prototypically middle class. Shehzad Tanweer himself was a college student.
Studies of killed Hezbollah fighters describe them as marginally less poor and more educated than Lebanese men generally. http://www.krueger.princeton.edu/terrorism2.pdf Suicide bombers in Israel/Palestine are, similarly, more likely to be high school or college educated than your garden variety Palestinian.
When you survey Palestinians, support for terrorism abstractly and blowing up Jews in particular both increase with economic and educational achievement.
William Ayers (hey, why not throw in a white guy) was the college-educated son of the president of Commonwealth Edison (the Illinois power monopoly -- i.e. a very rich and politically connected man). He "grew up" to become a respected professor of education at the University of Chicago and something of a local celebrity who launched the career of the man likely to be the next president of the United States.
Can you point out where the actual freaking EVIDENCE is for "poverty causes terrorism" is? The data suggest that, if anything, college education causes terrorism. (We'll ignore the religion angle for the moment because the numbers are too depressing and, hey, if you look hard enough you can usually find a token white guy to throw in.)
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.