Re:Automated testing is overrated
on
Debugging
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· Score: 1
>> No amount of testing can prove the absence of bugs. >> So this attitude is always wrong.
I wish I could tell this to our PHBs. Basically what they do when it's time to ship the product is they throw the remaining bugs over the fence and say that the product has "zero bugs". How's that?
Our baby boy was 9 lb 14 oz at birth, and he has a big head. So there's no way in hell a polar bear (or breathing, or music) would change anything.:0)
Automated testing is overrated
on
Debugging
·
· Score: 0
If it takes more time to write automated test than to execute the test case 5 or 6 times - fuck the automation. Again the main problem with it is that it will test the code that's already "good" without going to unexplored code paths. This gives a tester (and a developer) a false sense of security. Automation suite passes, so there are no more bugs, right? WRONG!
I'm not saying automation is useless. There are certain tests that are nearly impossible to do without automation, I'm just saying that most of the time cost outweighs the benefits.
It's funny how much time a typical tester spends testing the code that's OK already (has been debugged/fixed) while not touching the bugs outside of the scope of regression test suite. I would mandate ad-hoc testing with periodical (two to three times during the product cycle, basically at two last milestones and in the final version) regression testing. Not the kind of "we've changed this from int to uint, execute your 10000 test cases" kind of stuff I'm seeing way too often. Testers get bored and become dumb if you make them do it two dozen times, thus they miss the higher-level bugs.
Another thing that's totally wrong with testing is breaking down the application by areas in any kind of strict fashion, especially with things like security or performance. This fucks up the most important thing in the app - namely, how well the pieces work together. Individual features may be OK, but there's a lot of unexplored garbage at the seams, and sooner or later seams start to break revealing fundamental problems and total lack of testing in feature interaction.
They don't see a damn thing within 10 inches of their face and hardly hear anything when they're pushing. On top of that, epidural will not be administered at the last stage because it takes some time to kick in. No fucking polar bear dancing naked will distract a woman from feeling "the bowling ball" going through her cervix and vagina and tearing it apart.
$35 a month my ass! Sure it costs a bit of money to integrate into the existing phone network (so that you could call from and to regular phones), but other than that their costs are next to nothing. They don't have to bury (or hang) wires, they don't have to maintain broadband infrastructure (you're supposed to already have a BB connection) or interconnect channels (it's VoIP folks), they don't have to install base stations. So I personally am not ready to pay more than I pay for my regular phone service.
Why would anyone need this and how this is supposed to improve the interaction of personnel any more than real excercise is beyond me. Sure, launching rockets and stuff is cheap in a simulator, but they will NEVER make it as accurate as the real life, by definition. Thus the soldier mostly trained in the simulator (for cost reasons) will be unprepared for the real action.
I'd rather see my tax money invested into helicopters that don't crash into each other and cannons that can't do "friendly fire".
I paid $1350 for it. That would have bought A LOT of film and processing. But this $1.35K pales in comparison to my spending on lenses. For some reason Bayer based digicams need VERY good lenses to render good pictures. Foveon-based cameras don't seem as sensitive to this.
l. It's more like GBP8K, which pays for eight years of film and processing for this guy. And that's without lenses (add $5K more for some good ones covering the range from 14-16mm to 300-400mm, if you want to cover 500-600mm, add $7K more).
I mean those who declined to distribute. Will they write their own implementation of X? Or will they hire people to dig through this steaming pile of crap that X turned into?
Stacker had a patent which covered realtime disk compression AS A WHOLE, not just their implementation. MS did their best to avoid infringing, but it seems that it was one of those "wheel" patents which cover everything under the Sun. I'm not saying what happened to Stacker was right, but there was NO outright code theft as many seem to think.
They've found a bug in a version of IE that's TWO FUCKING YEARS OLD. Subsequent versions are not affected. Is this all this "many eyes" approach capable of?
Even though a FREE alternative is available, you're still bitching about MS making money! What's wrong with you? Is it not OK to make money these days? Are only Indians allowed to make money on programming?
I always thought $50 buys a fine valentine gift. Anyone who seriously considers spending a few thousand dollars on a valentine gift should reconsider their spending habits and/or relationship.
>> Communication is also a lot more than just words. >> There's tone, body language, facial expressions, etc.
Yeah, and that's exactly why you can hook up your digital camcorder or web camera straight to your PC and enjoy looking at your friends sitting there with uncombed hair and wearing nothing but boxers.
My total tax rate for the past year is 14% as I said. This is calcualted as the amount witheld in taxes divided by the total yearly income. Sure there's 8.8% sales tax on top of this, but Swedes pay even more in sales tax ON TOP of their 50% income tax. And yeah, there are additional taxes on businesses, so by the time you spend your money it is already taxed three or four times at hefty rates.
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>> No amount of testing can prove the absence of bugs.
>> So this attitude is always wrong.
I wish I could tell this to our PHBs. Basically what they do when it's time to ship the product is they throw the remaining bugs over the fence and say that the product has "zero bugs". How's that?
Our baby boy was 9 lb 14 oz at birth, and he has a big head. So there's no way in hell a polar bear (or breathing, or music) would change anything. :0)
If it takes more time to write automated test than to execute the test case 5 or 6 times - fuck the automation. Again the main problem with it is that it will test the code that's already "good" without going to unexplored code paths. This gives a tester (and a developer) a false sense of security. Automation suite passes, so there are no more bugs, right? WRONG!
I'm not saying automation is useless. There are certain tests that are nearly impossible to do without automation, I'm just saying that most of the time cost outweighs the benefits.
It's funny how much time a typical tester spends testing the code that's OK already (has been debugged/fixed) while not touching the bugs outside of the scope of regression test suite. I would mandate ad-hoc testing with periodical (two to three times during the product cycle, basically at two last milestones and in the final version) regression testing. Not the kind of "we've changed this from int to uint, execute your 10000 test cases" kind of stuff I'm seeing way too often. Testers get bored and become dumb if you make them do it two dozen times, thus they miss the higher-level bugs.
Another thing that's totally wrong with testing is breaking down the application by areas in any kind of strict fashion, especially with things like security or performance. This fucks up the most important thing in the app - namely, how well the pieces work together. Individual features may be OK, but there's a lot of unexplored garbage at the seams, and sooner or later seams start to break revealing fundamental problems and total lack of testing in feature interaction.
... if you have a wife, that is.
They don't see a damn thing within 10 inches of their face and hardly hear anything when they're pushing. On top of that, epidural will not be administered at the last stage because it takes some time to kick in. No fucking polar bear dancing naked will distract a woman from feeling "the bowling ball" going through her cervix and vagina and tearing it apart.
$35 a month my ass! Sure it costs a bit of money to integrate into the existing phone network (so that you could call from and to regular phones), but other than that their costs are next to nothing. They don't have to bury (or hang) wires, they don't have to maintain broadband infrastructure (you're supposed to already have a BB connection) or interconnect channels (it's VoIP folks), they don't have to install base stations. So I personally am not ready to pay more than I pay for my regular phone service.
Better helicopters 10 times cheaper. :-) http://usairforce.8k.com/ka-50.htm
They're making a NATO-compatible version, too. This thing can return to the base all by itself.
Ka-52 isn't bad either.
as they are at Google. You get a massage and a crown and you don't pay a dime. Sounds like a dream employer to me. :-)
They have fucking masseuse, doctor and dentist onsite (or so I heard). All of this will be gone if they IPO.
Why would anyone need this and how this is supposed to improve the interaction of personnel any more than real excercise is beyond me. Sure, launching rockets and stuff is cheap in a simulator, but they will NEVER make it as accurate as the real life, by definition. Thus the soldier mostly trained in the simulator (for cost reasons) will be unprepared for the real action.
I'd rather see my tax money invested into helicopters that don't crash into each other and cannons that can't do "friendly fire".
The guy is saying the right thing.
I paid $1350 for it. That would have bought A LOT of film and processing. But this $1.35K pales in comparison to my spending on lenses. For some reason Bayer based digicams need VERY good lenses to render good pictures. Foveon-based cameras don't seem as sensitive to this.
l. It's more like GBP8K, which pays for eight years of film and processing for this guy. And that's without lenses (add $5K more for some good ones covering the range from 14-16mm to 300-400mm, if you want to cover 500-600mm, add $7K more).
I found my first US job through monster in 24 hours after I filed my resume with them. I guess it works for other people, too.
Wake me up when (and if) they actually deliver anything. Judging by broken HTML on their site they won't.
Yeah, I did, too. It says MS wrote their own implementation that infringed upon Stac's (overly broad) patent. Stac sued and won.
I mean those who declined to distribute. Will they write their own implementation of X? Or will they hire people to dig through this steaming pile of crap that X turned into?
It looks like you didn't.
Stacker had a patent which covered realtime disk compression AS A WHOLE, not just their implementation. MS did their best to avoid infringing, but it seems that it was one of those "wheel" patents which cover everything under the Sun. I'm not saying what happened to Stacker was right, but there was NO outright code theft as many seem to think.
They've found a bug in a version of IE that's TWO FUCKING YEARS OLD. Subsequent versions are not affected. Is this all this "many eyes" approach capable of?
Even though a FREE alternative is available, you're still bitching about MS making money! What's wrong with you? Is it not OK to make money these days? Are only Indians allowed to make money on programming?
I always thought $50 buys a fine valentine gift. Anyone who seriously considers spending a few thousand dollars on a valentine gift should reconsider their spending habits and/or relationship.
>> Communication is also a lot more than just words.
>> There's tone, body language, facial expressions, etc.
Yeah, and that's exactly why you can hook up your digital camcorder or web camera straight to your PC and enjoy looking at your friends sitting there with uncombed hair and wearing nothing but boxers.
My total tax rate for the past year is 14% as I said. This is calcualted as the amount witheld in taxes divided by the total yearly income. Sure there's 8.8% sales tax on top of this, but Swedes pay even more in sales tax ON TOP of their 50% income tax. And yeah, there are additional taxes on businesses, so by the time you spend your money it is already taxed three or four times at hefty rates.
... punishable by large fines or imprisonment or both. Because Crate amps are CRAP.