The line that was crossed is when it affected other peoples clients.
Makes no difference. This is the tech equivalent of making it illegal to sell horns that play "La Cucaracha" that are designed to magnetically mount to rental cars because it would cause irreparable harm to the reputation of the rental car company
This is incorrect. It would be the tech equivalent of making it illegal to sell a device that FORCES other peoples rental cars to all play La Cucaracha without their permission. Computer fraud act is going to kick in.
I also don't play the online game anymore due to cheaters, so it very much is damaging their player base and sales. It can actually be proven, it's not theoretical.
Right but you're arguing a..you know what, you win, you super got it right.
I'm not going to try and have a debate on this topic when someone keeps pulling different parts of a discussion and tries to apply it's point to something unrelated.
I pointed out that scalpers use multiple identities, you said it would take to much effort, I said they would use scripts and used other well known countries as an example, you said people in other countries don't care due to jurisdiction. Common sense would imply it's not limited to out of country, but the example was somewhere where it's rampant. You're trying to isolate it to the literal and it's fucking stupid.
Well if there was no legal recourse then there would be no article, and no legal action by the game company.
Use common sense, I shouldn't need to explain every little bit of this, if you think about it yourself, you'd setup multiple identities but not per sale, you'd sell different items under different identities. They would likely be reused.
Also it takes effort for you as a person to create new identities constantly. There is a reason they try to fight bots all the time, you can't honestly believe there isn't people in some well known countries with scripts that just create new accounts automatically and sell items? Scripting is real my friend, why do you think when you order from lesser known sellers over seas you sometimes end up with junk and they quickly disappear? They're not really gone they've just taken a new name so they don't get caught by their reputation as a seller.
Right because scalpers wouldn't intentionally limit their sales per username to avoid being busted.
Every thing you can come up with to prove they're not scalping that relies on honest answers from the seller, are things scalpers thing of too, and respond appropriately.
You're right, the game was in new condition, but new unused products makes an unauthorized reseller, which it seems, there are laws against. I imagine any middleman type people reading this have rage bubbling.
Part of it is the other reply about clearance time.
The other issue is they don't want to limit regular people from giving a ticket to a friend who can attend, as an invite or if they can't go themselves for reasons, or the regular folk who can't attend and might want to sell the ticket.
It's basically bad actors that could make things harder for regular people by intentionally taking up a lot of the tickets to jack up the prices which is shitty.
Well that's what I said it's harder to tell unless you can link volume.
The problem is scalpers etc, resell under multiple names as to avoid being caught. Just because you don't do the volume, doesn't mean you're not behaving the same way a scalper does.
The basis of scalping is as a business venture, buying items for consumers at a lower price than you sell them for, as a new unused product. Concert tickets can't be used, it's for a single concert. The video game in question was also being sold as new, unused, treating it the same as if you bought it straight from the developers.
I mean they got a good point. If it wasn't marketed as new, then it would have been fine. Concert tickets can't be sold as second hand, so people have a big issue with scalpers as they're ripping off the concert organizers. Do you want them to raise prices by 50%? No, not everyone could afford that. Is it fair that scalpers take the positions available, and jack up the price creating a second tier of clients? People would be outraged if a company said some have to pay more just because we feel you can afford it.
It's the same thing here. They buy it on sale which is a boon for people who wouldn't pay as much for the game, or can't afford to, so they use the businesses reasonable prices against them, by buying it on sale and selling it closer to retail, taking money out of the game company. That person could have paid the developers that money instead, and they would have made a better profit for the game they made.
Scalpers buy one or more tickets, and then sells them at a higher price they paid for as a commercial venture.
This bit about standing in lines or whatever is nonsense and sounds like you're in your own world. Like did you forget about online sales and just started making stuff up for some invisible point? No one said anything about standing in line, and then repeating for the same ticket one at a time. Silly.
A concert sells tickets. You buy a ticket, wait for it to sell out, then sell it for a higher price. Or you buy a ticket, something comes up, you can't go so you sell your ticket, the ticket is hot so you can make some extra money, so you sell it for more than you paid.
Can you tell the difference between a circumstantial seller or someone scalping tickets and doing it as a business? Not so easily, especially if the volume isn't there.
People are most definitely buying games on sale and reselling them unopened at higher prices, it happens a lot. I have no idea if that is what happened in this case, but neither does the game company, so the rule has to be applicable across the board, or the scalpers are gonna like be "Oh me to, just circumstances, totes not reselling for profit."
I'm against preventing second hand sales, but I think I have to agree with them.
Here is the problem, Game company sells a game on discount, is like, here, you wanted to play it? Here's a good deal for you!
Gets more players, more fans, exposes their content to more people, this is a good thing. Problem? While it's on sale, a bunch of scalpers (Yes it's the same breed) pick up the game cheaper, and then resell it at a higher price, making a profit. Often close to or at the original cost. So they're literally taking money off the sale of a brand new game that the company was selling. Typically I feel the businesses are all doing the shady shit, in this case, it sounds like scalpers or "unauthorized resellers"
There's a bunch of people with a lot of money. They are started doing shitty things that consumers were like, you know what, I don't need it. Or due to inflation, cost of living vs wages, they're saying we can't afford it.
Eating out is crazy expensive with everything else. Hell if I want two small pizza's delivered it's 30$, plus they expect you to tip the driver, even though 4.50$ of that is for the fucking delivery charge in the first place.
I'll spend 6$ on a large frozen pizza from the grocery store. Yea it's not as good, but it's good enough, especially at that price.
It's not my fault too many restaurants opened up, don't pay their staff enough so they can't afford to eat out, walmart shut down local businesses and they don't pay enough for their staff to eat out etc.
Like all these companies keep siphoning money away from local communities, pay shit wages, and then people are fucking stunned when no on can afford to use the businesses in town.
They could read this very post and they still wouldn't fucking get it. They're stare blankly in to space, their face going duhhh as soon as the words not paying staff enough enters the field, all their brains turn to mush and they forget how the local economy works since each of them just look at their business savings that year for paying low wages, expecting the money to come from the other businesses, which are doing the same fking thing.
Internet subscribers will partner with Xbox for a special internet addon 'Xbox express internet' or some garbage you can pay extra to the isp so your xbox works online properly.
ISP: Holy shit, microsoft is making a lot of money off of people using our network! We're still offering the same service but how do we take more money from these people?
Streaming gaming service, that's how.
It's also going to be shit and full of problems, investors are likely forcing this idea on them.
I mean, they keep trying to make it sound like they're doing you a favor.
They have had their eye on streaming games for the last 20 years. A way to hold complete control, to decide when you stop playing it, and how you play it. It made them sick to their wallets that you could still play the first version of the game that you loved and still play video games, saying to hell with the new Game release 3 or Game release 4. You weren't buying it because the original was better, and you still play it.
Well enough of that. We'll "depreciate" the copy you paid for, and say we longer offer it, so you can no longer play it. Now if you want to play anything close to it, you're forced to buy our newest title. We can also turn that previous title to shit with an update patch to make it like our newer product, saying it's a free content update etc, but it will not only wreck what you loved about the original, it won't be as good as our next release, so you'll be encouraged to buy it, for more 'features'
Oh yeah, remember how pissed everyone was when they wouldn't let you share games with a friend? Pass him your disk? They were super mad to that they didn't get to do it.
Now they're going to 'stream it' so there is no disk to share, it's all account based. Oh no they didn't say they're getting rid of sharing, noooo, just UNFORTUNATELY...the technology we're using doesn't support it, you know, for your benefit.
All these corporate companies have constantly, non stop looked for a way to be profitable but remove all control of products from your hands. They just want the money but it still all be theirs..
That's why hardware gets locked down, they make it difficult to repair except by giving them more money and they use firmware to make sure you only run what they want you to run, even completely legal software.
This is just the next step, continuation on this path. I've gamed a lot of my life, but many companies, game developers, and console makers have been pushed out of my wallet due to their bullshit, it's not worth it. Don't worry, I'll speak with my money too, hopefully everyone else will.
You don't get to pick the parts of equality that you want. You get them all.
I look at this like Aladdin and wishing to be the genie. You wanted everything someone else had, well, you get the shackles that come with it. Going to get a bit of a wake up call, the grass isn't as green as you thought it was on the other side, except for the 1%.
It's really simple. They did the math, and it's counter productive to their business model to stop fake news, they get too much money from people trying to manipulate the truth.
I understand lately you have had multiple choices from different providers, so we couldn't fuck you as hard as we wanted to because you would just switch. We're tired of this game where only one company gets to fuck you a little bit, then you switch and they get to fuck you a little bit.
Well, we're increasing the value of our offer and the quality of it. We're making sure that you don't have to worry about strange partners fucking you, or unknown STDs.
This way you're certain to be fucked by only us, and you'll know what kind of fucking you'll get, no surprises.
Even though those other companies we listed as threats actually have no control of your internet access, just in case, we made sure we fucked you first. We all know you don't forget your first fucking, and we're there all the way.
Sincerely, AT&T.
P.S We said you would be the only one we would love. We lied, we were fucking other people while fucking you. You consumers always fall for that.
Many companies don't let you know if you've been turned down and why.
Shoe is just on the other foot now. "Hi, I've applied to many jobs, due to the amount of jobs I've applied to only those I've chosen to proceed forward with will be contacted"
Just like you decide if you'll call someone back based on the quality of your other applicants, now people are doing it to employers. Not so nice is it?
Rofl what's with you guys? Don't you know your vehicles? It's on a serpentine belt. AC Compressor seized up. It doesn't mean no AC, it means no start engine. Everything on a single belt.
I don't have AC as I didn't refill it yet, but I had to replace the compressor with one that was freely spinning so I could drive the vehicle around;)
Oh I was overpaying, wreckers usually charge around 40$ for it, but the usual one didn't have my model in stock. Simple as that. You can't assume what a wrecker is charging for it has any relation at all of any kind to to the actual price of the part.
However ordering the part new from other sources than amazon is around 180$ as well, just shows the price gouging of the local market on used vehicles, which makes my point still stand.
AC Compressor for my jeep grand cherokee, 2001 was 700$ new at retail, 500 rebuilt.
Got one from a wrecker for 140$, if I could have waited, could have ordered the part from amazon brand new for 180$. Since cars are aging they're trying to gouge, dramatically increasing the prices of inexpensive parts to get their piece to punish you for not buying their new car that breaks in 10 years vs yours that's been running for the last 20.
Slashdot Mirror
The line that was crossed is when it affected other peoples clients.
Makes no difference. This is the tech equivalent of making it illegal to sell horns that play "La Cucaracha" that are designed to magnetically mount to rental cars because it would cause irreparable harm to the reputation of the rental car company
This is incorrect. It would be the tech equivalent of making it illegal to sell a device that FORCES other peoples rental cars to all play La Cucaracha without their permission. Computer fraud act is going to kick in.
I also don't play the online game anymore due to cheaters, so it very much is damaging their player base and sales. It can actually be proven, it's not theoretical.
You lose the protections you're mentioning when what you're doing alters the experience on other peoples clients.
Right but you're arguing a..you know what, you win, you super got it right.
I'm not going to try and have a debate on this topic when someone keeps pulling different parts of a discussion and tries to apply it's point to something unrelated.
I pointed out that scalpers use multiple identities, you said it would take to much effort, I said they would use scripts and used other well known countries as an example, you said people in other countries don't care due to jurisdiction. Common sense would imply it's not limited to out of country, but the example was somewhere where it's rampant. You're trying to isolate it to the literal and it's fucking stupid.
Well if there was no legal recourse then there would be no article, and no legal action by the game company.
Use common sense, I shouldn't need to explain every little bit of this, if you think about it yourself, you'd setup multiple identities but not per sale, you'd sell different items under different identities. They would likely be reused.
Also it takes effort for you as a person to create new identities constantly. There is a reason they try to fight bots all the time, you can't honestly believe there isn't people in some well known countries with scripts that just create new accounts automatically and sell items? Scripting is real my friend, why do you think when you order from lesser known sellers over seas you sometimes end up with junk and they quickly disappear? They're not really gone they've just taken a new name so they don't get caught by their reputation as a seller.
Right because scalpers wouldn't intentionally limit their sales per username to avoid being busted.
Every thing you can come up with to prove they're not scalping that relies on honest answers from the seller, are things scalpers thing of too, and respond appropriately.
You're right, the game was in new condition, but new unused products makes an unauthorized reseller, which it seems, there are laws against. I imagine any middleman type people reading this have rage bubbling.
Part of it is the other reply about clearance time.
The other issue is they don't want to limit regular people from giving a ticket to a friend who can attend, as an invite or if they can't go themselves for reasons, or the regular folk who can't attend and might want to sell the ticket.
It's basically bad actors that could make things harder for regular people by intentionally taking up a lot of the tickets to jack up the prices which is shitty.
Well that's what I said it's harder to tell unless you can link volume.
The problem is scalpers etc, resell under multiple names as to avoid being caught. Just because you don't do the volume, doesn't mean you're not behaving the same way a scalper does.
The basis of scalping is as a business venture, buying items for consumers at a lower price than you sell them for, as a new unused product. Concert tickets can't be used, it's for a single concert. The video game in question was also being sold as new, unused, treating it the same as if you bought it straight from the developers.
I mean they got a good point. If it wasn't marketed as new, then it would have been fine. Concert tickets can't be sold as second hand, so people have a big issue with scalpers as they're ripping off the concert organizers. Do you want them to raise prices by 50%? No, not everyone could afford that. Is it fair that scalpers take the positions available, and jack up the price creating a second tier of clients? People would be outraged if a company said some have to pay more just because we feel you can afford it.
It's the same thing here. They buy it on sale which is a boon for people who wouldn't pay as much for the game, or can't afford to, so they use the businesses reasonable prices against them, by buying it on sale and selling it closer to retail, taking money out of the game company. That person could have paid the developers that money instead, and they would have made a better profit for the game they made.
You're so confused and aren't making sense.
Scalpers buy one or more tickets, and then sells them at a higher price they paid for as a commercial venture.
This bit about standing in lines or whatever is nonsense and sounds like you're in your own world. Like did you forget about online sales and just started making stuff up for some invisible point? No one said anything about standing in line, and then repeating for the same ticket one at a time. Silly.
Right but the same challenges are faced.
A concert sells tickets. You buy a ticket, wait for it to sell out, then sell it for a higher price. Or you buy a ticket, something comes up, you can't go so you sell your ticket, the ticket is hot so you can make some extra money, so you sell it for more than you paid.
Can you tell the difference between a circumstantial seller or someone scalping tickets and doing it as a business? Not so easily, especially if the volume isn't there.
People are most definitely buying games on sale and reselling them unopened at higher prices, it happens a lot. I have no idea if that is what happened in this case, but neither does the game company, so the rule has to be applicable across the board, or the scalpers are gonna like be "Oh me to, just circumstances, totes not reselling for profit."
I'm against preventing second hand sales, but I think I have to agree with them.
Here is the problem, Game company sells a game on discount, is like, here, you wanted to play it? Here's a good deal for you!
Gets more players, more fans, exposes their content to more people, this is a good thing. Problem? While it's on sale, a bunch of scalpers (Yes it's the same breed) pick up the game cheaper, and then resell it at a higher price, making a profit. Often close to or at the original cost. So they're literally taking money off the sale of a brand new game that the company was selling. Typically I feel the businesses are all doing the shady shit, in this case, it sounds like scalpers or "unauthorized resellers"
Just like bail outs etc.
There's a bunch of people with a lot of money. They are started doing shitty things that consumers were like, you know what, I don't need it.
Or due to inflation, cost of living vs wages, they're saying we can't afford it.
Eating out is crazy expensive with everything else. Hell if I want two small pizza's delivered it's 30$, plus they expect you to tip the driver, even though 4.50$ of that is for the fucking delivery charge in the first place.
I'll spend 6$ on a large frozen pizza from the grocery store. Yea it's not as good, but it's good enough, especially at that price.
It's not my fault too many restaurants opened up, don't pay their staff enough so they can't afford to eat out, walmart shut down local businesses and they don't pay enough for their staff to eat out etc.
Like all these companies keep siphoning money away from local communities, pay shit wages, and then people are fucking stunned when no on can afford to use the businesses in town.
They could read this very post and they still wouldn't fucking get it. They're stare blankly in to space, their face going duhhh as soon as the words not paying staff enough enters the field, all their brains turn to mush and they forget how the local economy works since each of them just look at their business savings that year for paying low wages, expecting the money to come from the other businesses, which are doing the same fking thing.
Just a way to lockdown hardware, games, trading, ability to sell used games, game sharing etc further.
But now it's a feature so they're not violating any laws.
It's perfect.
Internet subscribers will partner with Xbox for a special internet addon 'Xbox express internet' or some garbage you can pay extra to the isp so your xbox works online properly.
ISP: Holy shit, microsoft is making a lot of money off of people using our network! We're still offering the same service but how do we take more money from these people?
Streaming gaming service, that's how.
It's also going to be shit and full of problems, investors are likely forcing this idea on them.
I mean, they keep trying to make it sound like they're doing you a favor.
They have had their eye on streaming games for the last 20 years. A way to hold complete control, to decide when you stop playing it, and how you play it. It made them sick to their wallets that you could still play the first version of the game that you loved and still play video games, saying to hell with the new Game release 3 or Game release 4. You weren't buying it because the original was better, and you still play it.
Well enough of that. We'll "depreciate" the copy you paid for, and say we longer offer it, so you can no longer play it. Now if you want to play anything close to it, you're forced to buy our newest title. We can also turn that previous title to shit with an update patch to make it like our newer product, saying it's a free content update etc, but it will not only wreck what you loved about the original, it won't be as good as our next release, so you'll be encouraged to buy it, for more 'features'
Oh yeah, remember how pissed everyone was when they wouldn't let you share games with a friend? Pass him your disk? They were super mad to that they didn't get to do it.
Now they're going to 'stream it' so there is no disk to share, it's all account based. Oh no they didn't say they're getting rid of sharing, noooo, just UNFORTUNATELY...the technology we're using doesn't support it, you know, for your benefit.
All these corporate companies have constantly, non stop looked for a way to be profitable but remove all control of products from your hands. They just want the money but it still all be theirs..
That's why hardware gets locked down, they make it difficult to repair except by giving them more money and they use firmware to make sure you only run what they want you to run, even completely legal software.
This is just the next step, continuation on this path. I've gamed a lot of my life, but many companies, game developers, and console makers have been pushed out of my wallet due to their bullshit, it's not worth it. Don't worry, I'll speak with my money too, hopefully everyone else will.
You don't get to pick the parts of equality that you want. You get them all.
I look at this like Aladdin and wishing to be the genie. You wanted everything someone else had, well, you get the shackles that come with it.
Going to get a bit of a wake up call, the grass isn't as green as you thought it was on the other side, except for the 1%.
It's really simple. They did the math, and it's counter productive to their business model to stop fake news, they get too much money from people trying to manipulate the truth.
Dear Consumers.
I understand lately you have had multiple choices from different providers, so we couldn't fuck you as hard as we wanted to because you would just switch. We're tired of this game where only one company gets to fuck you a little bit, then you switch and they get to fuck you a little bit.
Well, we're increasing the value of our offer and the quality of it. We're making sure that you don't have to worry about strange partners fucking you, or unknown STDs.
This way you're certain to be fucked by only us, and you'll know what kind of fucking you'll get, no surprises.
Even though those other companies we listed as threats actually have no control of your internet access, just in case, we made sure we fucked you first. We all know you don't forget your first fucking, and we're there all the way.
Sincerely,
AT&T.
P.S We said you would be the only one we would love. We lied, we were fucking other people while fucking you. You consumers always fall for that.
Many companies don't let you know if you've been turned down and why.
Shoe is just on the other foot now. "Hi, I've applied to many jobs, due to the amount of jobs I've applied to only those I've chosen to proceed forward with will be contacted"
Just like you decide if you'll call someone back based on the quality of your other applicants, now people are doing it to employers. Not so nice is it?
Clutch and everything seized up, from the gunk that burned up when it first seized.
It'll be virtual windows, giving them the ability to display ads to all the people looking out the windows, that's all it is ;)
See above - serpentine belt. AC compressor seized, have to replace it with a freely spinning one or vehicle goes no where.
I still have no AC, didn't refill it, just had to get it back on the road.
Rofl what's with you guys? Don't you know your vehicles? It's on a serpentine belt. AC Compressor seized up. It doesn't mean no AC, it means no start engine. Everything on a single belt.
I don't have AC as I didn't refill it yet, but I had to replace the compressor with one that was freely spinning so I could drive the vehicle around ;)
Oh I was overpaying, wreckers usually charge around 40$ for it, but the usual one didn't have my model in stock. Simple as that. You can't assume what a wrecker is charging for it has any relation at all of any kind to to the actual price of the part.
However ordering the part new from other sources than amazon is around 180$ as well, just shows the price gouging of the local market on used vehicles, which makes my point still stand.
AC Compressor for my jeep grand cherokee, 2001 was 700$ new at retail, 500 rebuilt.
Got one from a wrecker for 140$, if I could have waited, could have ordered the part from amazon brand new for 180$.
Since cars are aging they're trying to gouge, dramatically increasing the prices of inexpensive parts to get their piece to punish you for not buying their new car that breaks in 10 years vs yours that's been running for the last 20.
Years actually, like it takes 4 years in apprenticeships to become an electrician.