That's exactly my point: why does echo have to be that big? What's it doing? Efficiency isn't just for ancient computers, and the lack of efficiency in today's software is driving people to buy ever faster hardware just to run at the same damn speeds they used to get on their old hardware, with their old software.
Hell, WordPerfect 5.0 ran faster on my old 12 MHz 286 than OpenOffice.org 2.x runs on my 2 GHz Sempron - and had pretty much all the functionality I need in a word processor even now.
I'll say it out, I don't like Theo de Raadt's hostile attitude, but I do like the way he's adamant about what he believes in, and actually does something about it.
I don't like the GNU project, not because of a distaste for free software, but because of a distaste for crufted-together bloatware that feels like the Microsoft of Unix. And have I done something? I'm actually working on getting the leaner, meaner, BSD stuff up on my system in place of gnuware. A lot of that comes from NetBSD and OpenBSD.
I mean seriously, when my own fully functional version of "echo" is 4116 bytes stripped, how come GNU's is 13880, and all it has mine doesn't is --help and --version? (Both are dynamically linked.) -uso.
It would be nice to have that the case for my project but it wouldn't be feasible, given how much of the system it takes out in the installation (almost everything in coreutils for example), so there's no way in hell I could convince Debian to include my stuff. Hell, some of it's Debian reject material that they junked because GNU coded their own versions!
But the idea, at least, seems sound - a GNU-like common userland that focuses on being light and fast rather than powerful and heavy, and with a lot of its basis from BSD who pulled it off well - and I suppose if I had ways to test, I could get it working as a true GNU-replacement...
Agreed, buzzwords are overrated. Most people use "blogs" as diaries. Why not call a spade a spade? If I were writing a diary, I would call it an online diary or an online journal, because that's what it is. No need to make new words when the old ones work fine.
FOX is like core-utils and such, it's not a whole OS. It's more all-encompassing than core-utils, but it's still not everything. I doubt OpenBSD considers the compiler to be part of base - you know how much de Raadt hates GNU - it's not part of base on FOX either, though, I am considering possibilities for using other compilers, such as an earlier compiler from 4.2BSD, or perhaps tcc, or I've heard de Raadt was considering TenDRA as it's BSD-licensed.
I have my own limitations. And I haven't yet gotten a libc ported over...at least, a working one...
Sure it's possible, and I've done some of the work. It's on svn at Sourceforge, and I'm open to suggestions on what other tools would be useful to migrate from BSD.
One, build-essentials installs all the packages for gcc, make, etc.
Two, I *use* Ubuntu - on a daily basis as my main distro.
Three, I've written Dapple, RMFCOM (a replacement for Command.com), and a few other, smaller programs (some of which are part of the BSDish-Linux project "FOX" I run, see my link). I think it's safe to say I'm a programmer.
Why did I pick Ubuntu? Because I liked Debian, and I wanted to get this computer set up quickly and didn't feel like going through the bullshit of installing a million packages to get a GUI.
I use CGI for simple dynamically-generated stuff, like want-lists based on numbers (e.g., missing episode lists), Now Playing, and random-image stuff. It's mostly bash/ksh scripts, sometimes with a sprig of C, and the HTML output is very rudimentary (if there is indeed any - some output pngs).
Yeah, I still haven't found a good clone of Prestige Elite...I like it much better than Courier (btw I have Letter Gothic and Script Mono which are also authentic typewriter fonts)
I believe a law written to keep people from doing what they want with what they set out money for is unjust, and my belief is that unjust law should be "flagrantly ignored". DMCA or no DMCA, this program should be ensured its place on the Internet. Not because it's a piracy tool, but because it's a tool promoting fair use - something the MAFIAA seems to have forgotten the existence of.
I have a site under construction that offers 192 kbps ogg vorbis Sailor Moon music (competing with a much older and more established site offering 64 kbps ogg vorbis). In my IRC channel I offer FLAC of everything on the site.
Had to give up Winfile to do it (I'm using MS-DOS Executive [Windows 2.0 shell] from Windows 3.0, alongside my own light command shell), but it works now. It's a remarkably light system, booting with Compaq MS-DOS 3.31.
Call me a luddite, but I just don't see the use for "computers for everyone".
I learned fine, mostly the old-fashioned way. We had an Apple//e and an Apple IIgs, but for the most part it was just the//e we used and really it was only for teaching the basics of arithmetic, in a way that tried as much as possible to simulate writing one's work out on paper. And one computer for the 12 students in my special ed class was all we needed. And to be honest, I think children need to be first taught the hard manual way of doing stuff, then simpler ways, and maybe computer-assisted ways at the very end though to be honest, I would really say that not even a 4-function calculator need be offered to any grade-school or high-school student.
Now, for researching essays... That's where a computer really shines. I, though, would still suggest essays ought to be written out longhand in school. It keeps the practice up.
Slashdot Mirror
You mean, like \a causes a beep, -n suppresses newline, and the octal escape stuff?
Yep, supports that
-uso.
That's exactly my point: why does echo have to be that big? What's it doing? Efficiency isn't just for ancient computers, and the lack of efficiency in today's software is driving people to buy ever faster hardware just to run at the same damn speeds they used to get on their old hardware, with their old software.
Hell, WordPerfect 5.0 ran faster on my old 12 MHz 286 than OpenOffice.org 2.x runs on my 2 GHz Sempron - and had pretty much all the functionality I need in a word processor even now.
-uso.
I'll say it out, I don't like Theo de Raadt's hostile attitude, but I do like the way he's adamant about what he believes in, and actually does something about it.
I don't like the GNU project, not because of a distaste for free software, but because of a distaste for crufted-together bloatware that feels like the Microsoft of Unix. And have I done something? I'm actually working on getting the leaner, meaner, BSD stuff up on my system in place of gnuware. A lot of that comes from NetBSD and OpenBSD.
I mean seriously, when my own fully functional version of "echo" is 4116 bytes stripped, how come GNU's is 13880, and all it has mine doesn't is --help and --version? (Both are dynamically linked.)
-uso.
Keep in mind that they share a lot of their user-level code with WINE, and the WINE and ROS teams do help each other, this is in their FAQ.
-uso.
It would be nice to have that the case for my project but it wouldn't be feasible, given how much of the system it takes out in the installation (almost everything in coreutils for example), so there's no way in hell I could convince Debian to include my stuff. Hell, some of it's Debian reject material that they junked because GNU coded their own versions!
... on BSD it'd be redundant)
But the idea, at least, seems sound - a GNU-like common userland that focuses on being light and fast rather than powerful and heavy, and with a lot of its basis from BSD who pulled it off well - and I suppose if I had ways to test, I could get it working as a true GNU-replacement...
(but as if
-uso.
Agreed, buzzwords are overrated. Most people use "blogs" as diaries. Why not call a spade a spade? If I were writing a diary, I would call it an online diary or an online journal, because that's what it is. No need to make new words when the old ones work fine.
-uso.
*DUCKS FOR COVER*
FOX is like core-utils and such, it's not a whole OS. It's more all-encompassing than core-utils, but it's still not everything. I doubt OpenBSD considers the compiler to be part of base - you know how much de Raadt hates GNU - it's not part of base on FOX either, though, I am considering possibilities for using other compilers, such as an earlier compiler from 4.2BSD, or perhaps tcc, or I've heard de Raadt was considering TenDRA as it's BSD-licensed.
I have my own limitations. And I haven't yet gotten a libc ported over...at least, a working one...
-uso.
Sure it's possible, and I've done some of the work. It's on svn at Sourceforge, and I'm open to suggestions on what other tools would be useful to migrate from BSD.
-uso.
It's only a pain the one or two times it comes up. A base system, for example, won't need a million weird libraries and such.
The worst of my programs is for needing Allegro, which is pretty common.
-uso.
One, build-essentials installs all the packages for gcc, make, etc.
Two, I *use* Ubuntu - on a daily basis as my main distro.
Three, I've written Dapple, RMFCOM (a replacement for Command.com), and a few other, smaller programs (some of which are part of the BSDish-Linux project "FOX" I run, see my link). I think it's safe to say I'm a programmer.
Why did I pick Ubuntu? Because I liked Debian, and I wanted to get this computer set up quickly and didn't feel like going through the bullshit of installing a million packages to get a GUI.
-uso.
Is it that hard to apt-get build-essentials? And you'll have all the important tools. Ubuntu doesn't hide them THAT far away.
-uso.
I use CGI for simple dynamically-generated stuff, like want-lists based on numbers (e.g., missing episode lists), Now Playing, and random-image stuff. It's mostly bash/ksh scripts, sometimes with a sprig of C, and the HTML output is very rudimentary (if there is indeed any - some output pngs).
-uso.
Not to mention XIOS is already a term in CP/M for "Extended I/O System" (comparable with the DOS BIOS in io.sys/ibmbio.com).
If it NEEDS AN OS TO RUN, it is not an OS!
-uso.
What about replacing telnetd with openbsd's?
-uso.
Yeah, I still haven't found a good clone of Prestige Elite...I like it much better than Courier (btw I have Letter Gothic and Script Mono which are also authentic typewriter fonts)
-uso.
I believe a law written to keep people from doing what they want with what they set out money for is unjust, and my belief is that unjust law should be "flagrantly ignored". DMCA or no DMCA, this program should be ensured its place on the Internet. Not because it's a piracy tool, but because it's a tool promoting fair use - something the MAFIAA seems to have forgotten the existence of.
-uso.
I'm strange, but I prefer to call it "free and open software" - that way there is no doubt in people's minds wtf I'm talking about.
-uso.
I dunno, but it seems to take tooth fillings for Golden Tickets...
*RUNS*
-uso.
I have a site under construction that offers 192 kbps ogg vorbis Sailor Moon music (competing with a much older and more established site offering 64 kbps ogg vorbis). In my IRC channel I offer FLAC of everything on the site.
-uso.
This is the "All By Myself" CM from the Super Bowl on that YT link, right?
704x400 AVI, MPEG-4, 6.7 MB (from my own rip of the SB commercials)
-uso.
Had to give up Winfile to do it (I'm using MS-DOS Executive [Windows 2.0 shell] from Windows 3.0, alongside my own light command shell), but it works now. It's a remarkably light system, booting with Compaq MS-DOS 3.31.
Minimal Windows directory
Some of these files, can't remember which, I think they came from the win98 installer, making them smaller. It can't run DOS apps, unfortunately.
If anyone can make Windows 3.1 *with* DOS support fit onto a 1.44 MB floppy, I'd like to see it.
-uso.
Call me a luddite, but I just don't see the use for "computers for everyone".
//e and an Apple IIgs, but for the most part it was just the //e we used and really it was only for teaching the basics of arithmetic, in a way that tried as much as possible to simulate writing one's work out on paper. And one computer for the 12 students in my special ed class was all we needed. And to be honest, I think children need to be first taught the hard manual way of doing stuff, then simpler ways, and maybe computer-assisted ways at the very end though to be honest, I would really say that not even a 4-function calculator need be offered to any grade-school or high-school student.
I learned fine, mostly the old-fashioned way. We had an Apple
Now, for researching essays... That's where a computer really shines. I, though, would still suggest essays ought to be written out longhand in school. It keeps the practice up.
-uso.
The main bottleneck is the link from the isp to the user.
-uso.
apt-get on Windows. THAT would pwn.
-uso.