No the problem is that the port is labeled experimental and they themselves say it hasn't been tested; AND it is rocksalt and milk (IE you have to make it yourself). I only have so much time in my day to contribute to open source projects. So I am not going to go install Linux and Calligra just to see if it is worth giving a try. I am more than capable of compiling the suite myself, but I have better things to do than spend time on that just to see if I might like it. Especially with that OpenGL thing, which implies a deem immaturity to the port.
The problem is that after roughly half a decade Calligra has been unable to excite any interest from the OSX community. I have yet to see a compelling reason why I should as well.
Well and that is why I use Microsoft Office. Not being a troll, but honestly it is the one I work with best. I still can't round trip documents with even moderately complex formatting in [Open|Libra|Neo]Office with any consistency. Pages is lovely and I use it when I need to do something a little more DTP like, but I wouldn't want to write a novel in it. And AbiWord is a) not up to my needs, and b) was more or less abandoned on OSX a good while ago.
I would love another option to try. I don't hate MS (or office), but it would be nice to have some genuine competition in the office suite space. I do a lot of writing (fiction, essays, technical, business) and thus have higher end needs than most, I am the first to admit that.
I do and continue to write and contribute to open source projects. But I they have to be on subjects I care about and use.
The problem here is that I can't even use Calligra to know if I might want to contribute — and push something else off that list, there are only so many hours I can devote to non paying work.
The OpenGL thing just belies a systemic problem that makes me far too nervous to even try Calligra — ie what other lovely little time-bombs are in there? Also if this is such a known issue why in the hell can't Kitra detect the platform at startup and disable OpenGL support then? That just belies an immaturity to the port, that makes me very nervous.
And it isn't like this is a new problem, KDE and then Calligra have claimed to have a OSX port for literally years now, but every time I go to take a look I am offered sour milk and rock salt. I am not going to contribute to something I have no idea if it is stable enough to use. The FLOSS mantra of "you can fix that yourself" only carries so much water in this regard.
When I am offered ice cream I don't want to be handed rock salt and milk and told to churn it myself:)
More to the point, yes while I am capable to compiling it and running it myself, though I would feel annoyance every time I launched it, I said I wanted a stable version. Not an experimental version, nor an unstable version; and that is all we have now. That is all we have had for years now.
It is lovely they are pushing the bounds and porting to Android, I just with they would either produce a stable OSX build, or stop claiming OSX support on the main page, because right now all they are giving me is rock salt...
While you make some interesting points, you still haven't listed example of anything that disappeared overnight, or that had one scrambling. There are plenty of other feed readers out there, and there is a standard way to get your feeds out and into something else, and they are giving plenty of notice
You didn't phrase it as an exception, but as a description of standard practice. Avoiding brad dilution and trying to prevent backlash are two very different things.
Additionally creating a nameplate for every app would have negative implications for you brand as well. You want to people to associate your brand with something, if each app has its own then you get no halo effect.
Um Really? Because I have yet to work for a company that does that. The only time companies I have run/or worked at have spun off a new nameplate is when they don't want to dilute their main brand.
You are going to have to back this claim up with some data...
That is a logical argument, not an example of quantified evidence. Show me some evidence that regular users — who either never used Reader or stopped using it some time ago — are more concerned if Google will kill products or services or not; then we can talk.
But I am not interested in arguing about theoretical measurements of angel's tap shoes...
Yeah I am not sure how true that is. If you can show some quantifiable effect, please do. Otherwise I suspect the so called Normal People will just continue to act as they otherwise would. I think we overestimate our influence on them.
No my argument is that nothing is really ever assured. Anything and anyone can fail. Asteroids hit the earth, fires burn down houses, hard drives die, commercial software can fail to find a market, etc etc etc.
The world of software is littered with the corpses of dead companies and products. It has always been thus. Even free software can end up orphaned and so unmaintained it won't work on modern systems. It is foolish to believe any product will exist forever.
In the same way you should have a good 3, 2, 1 Backup strategy for your data, you should have a plan for what to do if products you rely on stop working.
People are just pointing out that Google has a pattern of introducing services as trial balloons, and then discontinuing them a few years later if it doesn't fit into their overalls strategy.
There is another term for that: Let a thousand flowers bloom. This is what Google has always done, try things. The things that work, that have an audience that can justify continued operation then they live. The ones that don't fail.
This is no different than how most companies work. The backlash against Readers closure is silly. Products fail, companies pivot, they aren't required to keep things going in perpetuity.
And Google lets you get your data out, which so many other failed products don't.
OK Fair enough, though you could have been more clear. That being said, you still haven't actually justified your statement why any of the things you mentioned are more secure than cron.
I am going to go out on a limb and say Google thought about all of that and still decided that killing Reader was the right call. Just because other people rely on a product doesn't mean you should keep it going if there isn't a business case for it.
Products die. I wasn't a Reader user, and I wish Google wasn't killing it, but I don't believe they should be forced to maintain every product they make in perpetuity either
Please remember the first rule of skepticism, the person to make the claim is the one who should justify it. Simply telling me to go look at bcron's implementation page doesn't do that. Especially since four different schedules were mentioned.
You (I presume you) are telling me that Chronos is insecure, you need to actually prove that. What are the vulnerabilities, or are you just speaking in vague generalities based on some philosophical belief?
Yes because commercial products never fail, go out of business, or have the business pivot. Charging is no assurance of success.
While it is sad to see Google Reader go, it is important to remember that it had a five year lifespan, which is an eternity for a webapp. Nor is your data locked in.
I use Evernote because my clients use Evernote, but Keep looks rather nice.
KISS is no guarantee of security. In what way are they simpler and thus more secure. While complexity introduces more opportunity for insecurity, inverse is not necessarily true. If you are just asserting that simple software is somehow better then you need to back that up.
The statement made was that the examples listed above were more secure, which implies familiarity with them. If you are just talking in generalities that isn't actually very useful.
For what its worth, I have been using Fever for a few years now and think it is hands down the best reader on the market (wish the mobile version were better though)
Your think patents are going to be reformed because of WebM? I think not. Patent reform isn't going to come though the courts it will only come when we the people can get the executive and legislative branches to reform the system.
They never said it was patent free, they said that they held all the patents (and licensed them royalty free) and that it didn't infringe on any others.
What they didn't do was indemnify people using WebM from litigation. MPEG-LA said they had a portfolio of patents that covered WebM, and said that they would indemnify... for a price.
So what Google has done is to cross-license parts of their own portfolio to ensure that people can use WebM for free and with (little) threat of litigation.
While most of use want to get rid of software and process patents, that isn't going to happen in the short term. Google did a good thing here...
Slashdot Mirror
No the problem is that the port is labeled experimental and they themselves say it hasn't been tested; AND it is rocksalt and milk (IE you have to make it yourself). I only have so much time in my day to contribute to open source projects. So I am not going to go install Linux and Calligra just to see if it is worth giving a try. I am more than capable of compiling the suite myself, but I have better things to do than spend time on that just to see if I might like it. Especially with that OpenGL thing, which implies a deem immaturity to the port.
The problem is that after roughly half a decade Calligra has been unable to excite any interest from the OSX community. I have yet to see a compelling reason why I should as well.
Well and that is why I use Microsoft Office. Not being a troll, but honestly it is the one I work with best. I still can't round trip documents with even moderately complex formatting in [Open|Libra|Neo]Office with any consistency. Pages is lovely and I use it when I need to do something a little more DTP like, but I wouldn't want to write a novel in it. And AbiWord is a) not up to my needs, and b) was more or less abandoned on OSX a good while ago.
I would love another option to try. I don't hate MS (or office), but it would be nice to have some genuine competition in the office suite space. I do a lot of writing (fiction, essays, technical, business) and thus have higher end needs than most, I am the first to admit that.
I do and continue to write and contribute to open source projects. But I they have to be on subjects I care about and use.
The problem here is that I can't even use Calligra to know if I might want to contribute — and push something else off that list, there are only so many hours I can devote to non paying work.
The OpenGL thing just belies a systemic problem that makes me far too nervous to even try Calligra — ie what other lovely little time-bombs are in there? Also if this is such a known issue why in the hell can't Kitra detect the platform at startup and disable OpenGL support then? That just belies an immaturity to the port, that makes me very nervous.
And it isn't like this is a new problem, KDE and then Calligra have claimed to have a OSX port for literally years now, but every time I go to take a look I am offered sour milk and rock salt. I am not going to contribute to something I have no idea if it is stable enough to use. The FLOSS mantra of "you can fix that yourself" only carries so much water in this regard.
Also can I introduce you to this little gem:
That is not acceptable. And just how many YEARS has the OSX build been unstable and experimental? I have lost count.
When I am offered ice cream I don't want to be handed rock salt and milk and told to churn it myself :)
More to the point, yes while I am capable to compiling it and running it myself, though I would feel annoyance every time I launched it, I said I wanted a stable version. Not an experimental version, nor an unstable version; and that is all we have now. That is all we have had for years now.
It is lovely they are pushing the bounds and porting to Android, I just with they would either produce a stable OSX build, or stop claiming OSX support on the main page, because right now all they are giving me is rock salt...
It is a shame that there still isn't a stable version for OSX.
Sorry I meant suggestion not exception
While you make some interesting points, you still haven't listed example of anything that disappeared overnight, or that had one scrambling. There are plenty of other feed readers out there, and there is a standard way to get your feeds out and into something else, and they are giving plenty of notice
You didn't phrase it as an exception, but as a description of standard practice. Avoiding brad dilution and trying to prevent backlash are two very different things.
Additionally creating a nameplate for every app would have negative implications for you brand as well. You want to people to associate your brand with something, if each app has its own then you get no halo effect.
Um Really? Because I have yet to work for a company that does that. The only time companies I have run/or worked at have spun off a new nameplate is when they don't want to dilute their main brand.
You are going to have to back this claim up with some data...
That is a logical argument, not an example of quantified evidence. Show me some evidence that regular users — who either never used Reader or stopped using it some time ago — are more concerned if Google will kill products or services or not; then we can talk.
But I am not interested in arguing about theoretical measurements of angel's tap shoes...
Yes google earns money though ads. This isn't news. No one is forcing you to use Keep.
Yeah I am not sure how true that is. If you can show some quantifiable effect, please do. Otherwise I suspect the so called Normal People will just continue to act as they otherwise would. I think we overestimate our influence on them.
No my argument is that nothing is really ever assured. Anything and anyone can fail. Asteroids hit the earth, fires burn down houses, hard drives die, commercial software can fail to find a market, etc etc etc.
The world of software is littered with the corpses of dead companies and products. It has always been thus. Even free software can end up orphaned and so unmaintained it won't work on modern systems. It is foolish to believe any product will exist forever.
In the same way you should have a good 3, 2, 1 Backup strategy for your data, you should have a plan for what to do if products you rely on stop working.
I really don't get your point...
There is another term for that: Let a thousand flowers bloom. This is what Google has always done, try things. The things that work, that have an audience that can justify continued operation then they live. The ones that don't fail.
This is no different than how most companies work. The backlash against Readers closure is silly. Products fail, companies pivot, they aren't required to keep things going in perpetuity.
And Google lets you get your data out, which so many other failed products don't.
OK Fair enough, though you could have been more clear. That being said, you still haven't actually justified your statement why any of the things you mentioned are more secure than cron.
To which I say: So?
I am going to go out on a limb and say Google thought about all of that and still decided that killing Reader was the right call. Just because other people rely on a product doesn't mean you should keep it going if there isn't a business case for it.
Products die. I wasn't a Reader user, and I wish Google wasn't killing it, but I don't believe they should be forced to maintain every product they make in perpetuity either
Please remember the first rule of skepticism, the person to make the claim is the one who should justify it. Simply telling me to go look at bcron's implementation page doesn't do that. Especially since four different schedules were mentioned.
You (I presume you) are telling me that Chronos is insecure, you need to actually prove that. What are the vulnerabilities, or are you just speaking in vague generalities based on some philosophical belief?
I would say this is a successor to Notebook. A much richer and better successor.
Yes because commercial products never fail, go out of business, or have the business pivot. Charging is no assurance of success.
While it is sad to see Google Reader go, it is important to remember that it had a five year lifespan, which is an eternity for a webapp. Nor is your data locked in.
I use Evernote because my clients use Evernote, but Keep looks rather nice.
KISS is no guarantee of security. In what way are they simpler and thus more secure. While complexity introduces more opportunity for insecurity, inverse is not necessarily true. If you are just asserting that simple software is somehow better then you need to back that up.
The statement made was that the examples listed above were more secure, which implies familiarity with them. If you are just talking in generalities that isn't actually very useful.
I'll give you simpler (potentially), but could you explain why you say these are more secure?
For what its worth, I have been using Fever for a few years now and think it is hands down the best reader on the market (wish the mobile version were better though)
Your think patents are going to be reformed because of WebM? I think not. Patent reform isn't going to come though the courts it will only come when we the people can get the executive and legislative branches to reform the system.
They never said it was patent free, they said that they held all the patents (and licensed them royalty free) and that it didn't infringe on any others.
What they didn't do was indemnify people using WebM from litigation. MPEG-LA said they had a portfolio of patents that covered WebM, and said that they would indemnify... for a price.
So what Google has done is to cross-license parts of their own portfolio to ensure that people can use WebM for free and with (little) threat of litigation.
While most of use want to get rid of software and process patents, that isn't going to happen in the short term. Google did a good thing here...