Apparently, the devs think the entire point of having a user community is to stroke their egos.
After running into this attitude for years with the gaim/pidgin project (this latest tiff is nothing new), I couldn't be more than happy about a fork. Sign me up.
Oddly (or not so odd) these same sentiments tie in with what a lot of people were saying in the Reiser threads from earlier this week: god complex developers, unwilling to listen to users, etc.
I had that exact experience. ReiserFS is very unstable; any benefits that it could possibly have in terms of speed are far outweighed by the inherent danger to your files. I know that, yes, there may be some circumstances where someone would be willing to make that tradeoff. However, after seeing a ResierFS partition truly crash and burn, I would never consider using it in either a personal or professional application. And I would seriously laugh at anyone who really couldn't think of a better alternative.
The arrogant and abusive response thing is actually common to a lot of open source communities; Reiser wasn't the only one. I think it's more common (and more violent) where a criticism on the product could be interpreted as a personal attack on the author(s) (for instance, where one main author is largely responsible for the project or its main design), but it does happen quite a lot.
Oh, and the nagware/begware messages on all the Reiser package utilities were the most annoying things I've ever seen. Almost forgot about those.
I concur, except replace 'probably' with 'definitely'.
We have not accomplished any real advances that bear even a faint similarity to what this prediction purports. This is just passing the buck, and hoping that in the future, someone will solve the problem we have not even made any real progress against, yet.
In the end, this is just idiot blathering. It doesn't help further any effort, and is just so many useless words.
I'll make a prediction, too. By 2029, we will realize we've wasted another 20 years trying to achieve human level AI in computers, but people will continue to make wild claims about what will happen 20 years out from that.
In 2029, they'll say, "by 2049, for sure. This time we really really mean it."
I know this won't get read, due to not getting this off in the first 5 seconds after an article posted, but I just have to say this. Rant followed by red-mist comments.
Fuck off already, you goddamed idiot taggers. This article is not flamebait. It is not a troll. It does not have a poor summary. And why the hell are you even bothering to make semi-obscure A.S.R references in the tags, anyway? Too cowardly to comment? Not enough time? Can't actually construct a sentence to fit around a one-word tag-quip?
I'm sick and tired of anything someone doesn't agree with getting marked as a flame, or something that might be slightly controversial marked as a troll. Really, it just shows how stupid we all have become, if these words can't be used correctly.
Ranting aside, the article has a good point. CS students are idiots. The article doesn't mention, however, that CS teachers are idiots, too. It was CS teachers who decided that students weren't smart enough to begin programming learning C/C++ in the first place. This is not a chick&egg dilemma, here. Sometime in the 1990s, many institutions got together and decided to switch to teaching CS via Java en masse.
Personally, i think this is a great idea. Let them all 'learn' enough to pass a fuzzy curriculum, then fail in the real world. Then maybe all of em, idiot students and teachers alike, will get the hell out of the software engineering field, and and stop competing with real programmers for jobs.
Not enough of a selection? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gutenberg: "As of April 2007, Project Gutenberg claimed over 21,000 items in its collection." There has to be something in there. Somehow, I think you're probably not trying hard enough.
Speaking as someone at a company who tried very hard for a very long time to 'replace' exchange with OSS, i'll tell you it can't be done. Any kind of mix&match of software and jerryrigging of protocols may, kinda, sorta come close to offering approximately the same sort of capabilities of exchange. However, there will be caveats and gotchas, and all sorts of limitations that joe-users won't put up with or understand having to put up with.
Remember, you have exchange for the company environment, not for just your dev team. And as hard as it may be to admit, exhange+outlook actually functions very well when it's set up and admin'd properly.
One other thing: i know the whole setup is expensive, in terms of hardware and software and licenses. One can argue, that if your company can't afford the outlay for a working exchange environment, your company doesn't need it, and it would probably be a waste of time trying to replicate its features. So call a spade a spade; say you want OSS shared calendars, tasks, e-mail, whatever. But that alone is certainly NOT an exchange replacement.
Good for you. Writing PHP code is part of my job, too. As is writing C, perl, java, python, and anything else you can throw at me.
It all comes down to knowing what you're doing in the language you're coding in. If you're not good enough to sanitize, error check, bounds check, mem check, fault check, and whatever the hell else could go wrong, you have no business coding.
It's YOUR problem, not anyone else's. Don't pass the buck. If you don't like that, choose another language.
The problem is that so many neophyte progrrammesr jump into PHP to create something visible and useful. Which they succeed in doing, more often that not, I guess. But without a proper background in security and proper practice, there's a ton of vulnerabilities that get created, accidentally, over and over again by every new PHP programmer.
The same can be said about any other language. Take for instance, C. Very easy to create working code that's vulnerable as hell. Is this the original author's fault? Of course not. I'm sorry that whoever chose to write a webapp in PHP is ignorant of basic security principals, but it's not up to the coders of PHP to protect us from ourselves.
I know a number of people who refuse to use Firefox. I fought the good fight, told them they were being foolish, promised them newer and better capabilities... but they simply refuse. One person simply refuses to switch because the browsers 'just don't look the same'.
I know what's good for them, so if I could conceivably trick them into using a better tool, we can chalk up another victory for (more) secure browsing.
and secondly we have to work to make sure that that it supports the sort of society that we want to build on top of it.
This is a complete non-statement, of the sort that you'd be smacked for writing in an english class. The internet supports everything that is built on top of it. This includes the right society and the wrong society alike. This is like saying the earth has to support the sort of cities that we want to build on top of it.
Simply put, it does. It is incapable of doing anything else.
Really an inappropriate response. We're beyond the slash&burn upgrade cycle of yesteryear. Some of us have been conditioned by countless heartache that new computer == lose your data. It's not neccesary anymore, and you should not advise anyone that it's an acceptable solution just to leave that baggage behind.
Looking through my e-mail that i have collected in my personal account over a year (i administer my own mail servers), I have tons of e-mail from loved ones, business partners, account details... not to mention the quick vacation or baby pictures you get from relatives. Things that i don't even remember writing, or reading are kept safe for me to remember a year later.
One of the biggest impediments to leading a paperless life is the common complaint that there is no durability in electronic data. Why not keep everything with you? It's yours.
You may be able to convince people who don't know any better that it's acceptable to just chunk their junk, but anyone who's used e-mail for very long knows the value of their personal correspondance.
As someone posted up above, you're answering a question the poster did not ask. Stay on target.
down side: precious little to hear in some remote places.
I was driving through the mountains once upon a time, and all there was available were: country western music stations, preachers shouting hellfire on the AM, and NASCAR. (I'm sure lots of people like these, but not my cup of tea).
I went unprepared into this trek, and I can tell you now... there is nothing more boring thatn listening to NASCAR on the radio.
The moral? Be prepared, or... Sometimes, listening to the radio is worse than no radio at all.
It's not a criminal prosecution. They didn't commit a crime in any of our states or districts. They're not covered under the geneva convention or our constitution because a) they didn't represent any specific country, and b) they're definitely not US citizens.
Therefore (the thinking goes), you don't have to give anything to them, not even basic human rights. And they ceratinly don't get to make demands.
That's the way the thinking goes in DC these days. I find it abhorrent, but queerly logical in a mad-hatter sort of way.
These scientists, who sound pretty together, should be smart enough to realise that they don't HAVE to make their title into a easy to remember acronym:
"The project, known as New and Emergent World models Through Individual, Evolutionary and Social Learning - or NEW-TIES"
Geez, that's freaking almost unintelligble to anyone but the original scientists. Plus, you left out the "M" (models). You shouldn't be able to pick and choose which words get acronymed.
Just freaking call it "New Ties", already, and explain what it means later.
A cynical mind might say that the agencies involved have been quite unlucky at producing results for more... typical investigations. Solution so they don't look bad? Go after easier targets, and produce evidence that they are worth what we pay them.
After all, busting a piracy ring sounds a great deal like the good ol' haydays of busting up crime syndicates like Al Capone's, or the Gambino family.
Slashdot Mirror
Apparently, the devs think the entire point of having a user community is to stroke their egos.
After running into this attitude for years with the gaim/pidgin project (this latest tiff is nothing new), I couldn't be more than happy about a fork. Sign me up.
Oddly (or not so odd) these same sentiments tie in with what a lot of people were saying in the Reiser threads from earlier this week: god complex developers, unwilling to listen to users, etc.
I had that exact experience. ReiserFS is very unstable; any benefits that it could possibly have in terms of speed are far outweighed by the inherent danger to your files. I know that, yes, there may be some circumstances where someone would be willing to make that tradeoff. However, after seeing a ResierFS partition truly crash and burn, I would never consider using it in either a personal or professional application. And I would seriously laugh at anyone who really couldn't think of a better alternative.
The arrogant and abusive response thing is actually common to a lot of open source communities; Reiser wasn't the only one. I think it's more common (and more violent) where a criticism on the product could be interpreted as a personal attack on the author(s) (for instance, where one main author is largely responsible for the project or its main design), but it does happen quite a lot.
Oh, and the nagware/begware messages on all the Reiser package utilities were the most annoying things I've ever seen. Almost forgot about those.
I concur, except replace 'probably' with 'definitely'.
We have not accomplished any real advances that bear even a faint similarity to what this prediction purports. This is just passing the buck, and hoping that in the future, someone will solve the problem we have not even made any real progress against, yet.
In the end, this is just idiot blathering. It doesn't help further any effort, and is just so many useless words.
I'll make a prediction, too. By 2029, we will realize we've wasted another 20 years trying to achieve human level AI in computers, but people will continue to make wild claims about what will happen 20 years out from that.
In 2029, they'll say, "by 2049, for sure. This time we really really mean it."
I know this won't get read, due to not getting this off in the first 5 seconds after an article posted, but I just have to say this. Rant followed by red-mist comments.
Fuck off already, you goddamed idiot taggers. This article is not flamebait. It is not a troll. It does not have a poor summary. And why the hell are you even bothering to make semi-obscure A.S.R references in the tags, anyway? Too cowardly to comment? Not enough time? Can't actually construct a sentence to fit around a one-word tag-quip?
I'm sick and tired of anything someone doesn't agree with getting marked as a flame, or something that might be slightly controversial marked as a troll. Really, it just shows how stupid we all have become, if these words can't be used correctly.
Ranting aside, the article has a good point. CS students are idiots. The article doesn't mention, however, that CS teachers are idiots, too. It was CS teachers who decided that students weren't smart enough to begin programming learning C/C++ in the first place. This is not a chick&egg dilemma, here. Sometime in the 1990s, many institutions got together and decided to switch to teaching CS via Java en masse.
Personally, i think this is a great idea. Let them all 'learn' enough to pass a fuzzy curriculum, then fail in the real world. Then maybe all of em, idiot students and teachers alike, will get the hell out of the software engineering field, and and stop competing with real programmers for jobs.
Remember, kids. Computer Science != Computer Programming.
Not enough of a selection? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gutenberg: "As of April 2007, Project Gutenberg claimed over 21,000 items in its collection." There has to be something in there. Somehow, I think you're probably not trying hard enough.
Speaking as someone at a company who tried very hard for a very long time to 'replace' exchange with OSS, i'll tell you it can't be done. Any kind of mix&match of software and jerryrigging of protocols may, kinda, sorta come close to offering approximately the same sort of capabilities of exchange. However, there will be caveats and gotchas, and all sorts of limitations that joe-users won't put up with or understand having to put up with.
Remember, you have exchange for the company environment, not for just your dev team. And as hard as it may be to admit, exhange+outlook actually functions very well when it's set up and admin'd properly.
One other thing: i know the whole setup is expensive, in terms of hardware and software and licenses. One can argue, that if your company can't afford the outlay for a working exchange environment, your company doesn't need it, and it would probably be a waste of time trying to replicate its features. So call a spade a spade; say you want OSS shared calendars, tasks, e-mail, whatever. But that alone is certainly NOT an exchange replacement.
SONPY? What the hell is a SONPY?
Good for you. Writing PHP code is part of my job, too. As is writing C, perl, java, python, and anything else you can throw at me.
It all comes down to knowing what you're doing in the language you're coding in. If you're not good enough to sanitize, error check, bounds check, mem check, fault check, and whatever the hell else could go wrong, you have no business coding.
It's YOUR problem, not anyone else's. Don't pass the buck. If you don't like that, choose another language.
The problem is that so many neophyte progrrammesr jump into PHP to create something visible and useful. Which they succeed in doing, more often that not, I guess. But without a proper background in security and proper practice, there's a ton of vulnerabilities that get created, accidentally, over and over again by every new PHP programmer.
The same can be said about any other language. Take for instance, C. Very easy to create working code that's vulnerable as hell. Is this the original author's fault? Of course not. I'm sorry that whoever chose to write a webapp in PHP is ignorant of basic security principals, but it's not up to the coders of PHP to protect us from ourselves.
Ethereal was renamed wireshark, and is #2 on the list.
Of course the head of Nintendo UK would say that. What else is he capable of even saying?
"Well, frankly, I do in fact think the name sucks. They got their heads up their asses in marketing."
No way.
I know a number of people who refuse to use Firefox. I fought the good fight, told them they were being foolish, promised them newer and better capabilities ... but they simply refuse. One person simply refuses to switch because the browsers 'just don't look the same'.
I know what's good for them, so if I could conceivably trick them into using a better tool, we can chalk up another victory for (more) secure browsing.
APOD did the same for an April Fools' Joke.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050401.html
I wonder which one was first? Geologically speaking, of course, they happened at the same time.
Less interesting is the second half of the quote:
and secondly we have to work to make sure that that it supports the sort of society that we want to build on top of it.
This is a complete non-statement, of the sort that you'd be smacked for writing in an english class. The internet supports everything that is built on top of it. This includes the right society and the wrong society alike. This is like saying the earth has to support the sort of cities that we want to build on top of it.
Simply put, it does. It is incapable of doing anything else.
Really an inappropriate response. We're beyond the slash&burn upgrade cycle of yesteryear. Some of us have been conditioned by countless heartache that new computer == lose your data. It's not neccesary anymore, and you should not advise anyone that it's an acceptable solution just to leave that baggage behind.
... not to mention the quick vacation or baby pictures you get from relatives. Things that i don't even remember writing, or reading are kept safe for me to remember a year later.
Looking through my e-mail that i have collected in my personal account over a year (i administer my own mail servers), I have tons of e-mail from loved ones, business partners, account details
One of the biggest impediments to leading a paperless life is the common complaint that there is no durability in electronic data. Why not keep everything with you? It's yours.
You may be able to convince people who don't know any better that it's acceptable to just chunk their junk, but anyone who's used e-mail for very long knows the value of their personal correspondance.
As someone posted up above, you're answering a question the poster did not ask. Stay on target.
The first reset that I know of would be the jump from OS-less computers (like C64 or Apple 2 or even DOS in a way) to OS based ones.
Those computers had OS's. You have to go back much further in time to find ones that didn't. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system .
down side: precious little to hear in some remote places.
... there is nothing more boring thatn listening to NASCAR on the radio.
... Sometimes, listening to the radio is worse than no radio at all.
I was driving through the mountains once upon a time, and all there was available were: country western music stations, preachers shouting hellfire on the AM, and NASCAR. (I'm sure lots of people like these, but not my cup of tea).
I went unprepared into this trek, and I can tell you now
The moral? Be prepared, or
It's not a criminal prosecution. They didn't commit a crime in any of our states or districts. They're not covered under the geneva convention or our constitution because a) they didn't represent any specific country, and b) they're definitely not US citizens.
Therefore (the thinking goes), you don't have to give anything to them, not even basic human rights. And they ceratinly don't get to make demands.
That's the way the thinking goes in DC these days. I find it abhorrent, but queerly logical in a mad-hatter sort of way.
These scientists, who sound pretty together, should be smart enough to realise that they don't HAVE to make their title into a easy to remember acronym:
"The project, known as New and Emergent World models Through Individual, Evolutionary and Social Learning - or NEW-TIES"
Geez, that's freaking almost unintelligble to anyone but the original scientists. Plus, you left out the "M" (models). You shouldn't be able to pick and choose which words get acronymed.
Just freaking call it "New Ties", already, and explain what it means later.
A cynical mind might say that the agencies involved have been quite unlucky at producing results for more ... typical investigations. Solution so they don't look bad? Go after easier targets, and produce evidence that they are worth what we pay them.
...
After all, busting a piracy ring sounds a great deal like the good ol' haydays of busting up crime syndicates like Al Capone's, or the Gambino family.
But that's what a cynical mind would say
what's cp?
Which is why no matter how many slickers you wear on your John Thomas, you don't go trolling for hookers in Camden (NJ, not UK).
Azureus + the Safepeer/PeerGuardian plugin (http://azureus.sourceforge.net/plugin_details.php ?plugin=safepeer) specifically blocks much nasty stuff out.
Be smart when you engage in dangerous activity. No glove, no love.
somehow, this post got parented wrong. i was (snarkily) replying to "John the Kiwi (653757)".
PEBKAC?
you just ruined it, dude.