Given the reasonable success of these systems I wonder when people are going to start exploiting this sort of system comercially. Given the amounts being Invested in many-many processor systems (ASCI white et al) there has to be a market. This could even pay for free web access [ie I guarentee that my computer will give them X MIPS/year of processing, they give me free net access the rest of the time] It could also provide network revenue for internet backbones.
Apart from this surely these things should have even more users. Im surprised that govenment dont require schools, libaries universities etc etc to give away there free compu time to govenment projects this could then be used for whatever in return for larger IT bugets.
..but then again, the administration might cost more than increasingly cheap compu time;o(...
While fully intending to be pedantic I feel I must point out that the origins of xyzzy are in Colossal cave adventure [it has many psuedonemes] that IIRC started tis whole IF bug. Again IIRC you had say it while holding the rod to teleport to the house... ...Plover
The machine is not for poking or holding [grabbing?]. It easily breaks or stops working, blowsfuses or explodes spitting sparks. It is nor for use [operation?] by stupid-heads [idiots]. The rubbernecked sightseers should keep there hands in their pockets, Relax and watch the lights blink!!
This is true,
Its also made me realise that i've never really thought about calculators having OSes before.
So kiddies, sharpen your tongues, and prepare your FUD attacks because................. ..............its time for the calc-OS FLAMEWARS
an ~500MHz i386 chip could be a little of an overkill, even for those fancy, all singing graphical calcs, surely an low end ARM, or something by TI would be sufficient
.....opps just noticed you were an AC, have I been trolled?
I thinks this is a good developement, if the crusoe chip can get out in volume, and offer massively increased (ie 2x or 3x) battery life, then the venture should become profitiable very quickly. The main point of this, to me anyway, is that I think low power chips should be very useful on the desktop, finally realising the dream of a silent-running PC. This isnt going to happen (in the intel world anyway) until low-power chips are selling in the volumes necassary to begin to compete on price
One thought that occurs to me, is that, for those of us outside the Windows world, there are presumably some alreay existant low-power CPU designs out there (the last generation of StrongARMs spring to mind, there must be others). Does anybody know if any company is making low-powered linux/BSD portables now?
Also [inadvertantly starting a flame war?] how do the various OSes stack up in their use of notebook features, in power-management, in the execution of 'sleep' modes, etc etc
{as you might have guessed, im buying my first notebook soon ☺}
While ive no doubt that their doing this for political/propaganda/militiary reasons, its wonderful to see some seemingly just-for-the sake-off-it space exploration/travel. Like a previous poster i've dreamt of going to space since i was a toddler, and only this sort of boundary pushing stuff is going to ever make it a common-place experience.
Technologically speaking I believe that it's going to be relatively easy for them to get there. Of course there still going to have to use ridiculous fuel-loads, but developements in material science (alloys, ceramics, even plastics) and even things like CAD/CAE and computer-controlled factories are going to mean that the precision building and heatshileding etc are going to be relatively simple, even relatively cheap (i.e. cheap compared to basically bankrupting the USSR and giving the USA what should have been, and still should be, crippleing dept).
On the other-hand, I might have an issue with a country that still has a peasent economy spending billions on space travel, but then again, i know economics doesnt work like that, so I'm free to support them.
..........I wonder if there going to use one of those 'supercomputing PS2s they've banned for the guidance system? [dont laugh, its more than powerful enough.
Alot of this has already been said, but here's my take on it..
1stly dont assume that DELL have got this wrong, particuarly if there using fairly 'out the box' setting sfor linux and Apache. IIS is designed to run on the sort of hardware that DELL puts out, were as Apache is designed to run on pretty much anything (much the same could be said for NT and Linux/BSD)
This means that alot of work will have to go into optomising Linux and Apache for the open source solution to perform optimally. [for instance its typical to get a 2-fold or higher increase in disk IO by configureing hdparm etc correctly] It may be that DELL havent put this effort in, perhaps because they recieve less mark-up (and tech-support revenue??) or because they have less linux expertise. Its also perfectly possible that they have, and that, on their hardware, IIS is faster
It might well be worth contacting DELL and asking for more details on the setting used in the test, perhaps even trying to talk to someone involved in doing the testing, to see how much optimisation was done. Even if the Apache version wasn't highly optomised, you have to consider wether your company has the skills to optomise [and support you optimisations] yourself. If not you might well be better going for IIS.
You should also point out the importance of stability for the server, particularly if its for e-commerce, and ensure this factor is taken into consideration.
It may be that NT/IIS is the best solution for our company, dont worry about this, given its market share, and the fact that its free anyway, your usage is not going to have a great effect on the future of Apache. ☺
I know i shouldn't comment on the moderation and all, but off topic? the 1st and 3rd paragraphs (about 70% of the text) are definately on topic, dealing directly with the headline/article.
the 2nd and 4th are tangential i admit, but not grossly (IMESHADO, lol)
The artical is definately poorly spelt, may well be redundant (people posted most of its points while i was writing it), ws probably overrated, but it is ontopic
Note it isnt the karma loss im complaining about, im not even complaining really, i didnt deserve the previous +1 for his anyway, im just suprised that it was worth the mod-point.
I promise never to post about my moderation again...
I havent been following neural nets since the very early days, but i was under the impression that this [the abitity to distinguish one thing {even a complexd thing}] was state of the art.
Is the point more in the competition, were by they can discover the relationship between the 'best guess' on the question model, and the actual workings and consider the implications of this to our [their?] assumptions on how to build a 'net, and indeed how HUman minds work. ...or is it just a publicity stunt?
Also does anybody know of a good [non-too-tech] site on the present state of play in 'nets?
I think thgis is going to have little affect on the open source community really
Sure Sun are bound to more the OS obver to Solaris, they are however going to do this because Solaris is there area of expertise rather than on the relative technical merits of the systems. These boxes are still going to be running a heap of OSS (Apache et al).
This isnt necessarily going to have a big affect on linux's market share, as owners of cobaly systems aret going to upgrade overnight, it simply means that sun have a presence in the web-appliance market.
LInux's percieved market share is going to rocket anyway, given IBM's plans to run 'virtual' linux servers on top of there AIX boxes.
What perhaps is important about this purchase is that the financial world will see that companies selling linux solutions are being seen by the big-boys as a threat/startegic opportunity. This should result in the increase in credit rating etc of some linux companies, which may (probably not though;( ) bring some extra developement capitial into the arena.
................what i dont get is why Apha bases appliences arent being aggressively produced? THe bang/$ isnt that bad, and you can run linux, BSD, Tru64 unix, even NT on them for christs-sakes, talk about adaptable......
Seriously, on a purchast this size cant you borrow [or even rent] the system, and test your apps on it? I realise that there is a huge amount of setting up to do, but you could just do enough to try out the systen
Are you going to keep the present system running in parallel? if not what do you plan to do with it?
If your system is only just starting to back up, and the new [sgi] system represents at least a doubling of power, then with both SGI systems running you'd have 3+ times the power, is that enough for the forseeable future?
Surely IBM and Compaq (ie DEC) are worth getting a quote from before you commit?
Presumably this things going to be extremely automated, ie run by a computer.
It would be interesting to know what sort of hardware they're packing, i would presume energy efficiency, reliability and long life time are the major criteria for a space station processor, what are they running?
What sort of operating system? Ok its going to be highly customised, but it must be based on something
Also what sort of fail-safe system do they have, Is the computer in contact (ie satilite network etc) with a ground based computer, if so is this computer isolated from the internet? if not, could they hack the shuttle?.
I presume these things arnt classified anymore, maybe i'm naive again.......
When the Greek empire got to big to be able to control, it fell and there rose the Roman empire
There was never a 'Greek-empire' as such, what we call ancient Greece was a large collection of politically independent, culturally similiar states; sharing strong trading links and centered aroung the Agean sea. The term is perhaps comparable to the use of 'the west' today. ...On the other hand a Greek [Macedonian], Alexander, did conqueror a huge empire, but it started to collapse as soon as he died.
(my historical knowledge fails me at that point)
If your interested the empire in the west collapsed, and was latter, to a degree, ressurected by charlmagne (charles the great); it then spilt into France and the Holy Roman Empire, which was what they used to call Germany (except it included modern-day poland, austria and benelux etc etc )
The empire survived in the east untill about 900ad (IIRC) with the capitial being Constantinople (Istanbul). This is usual refered to as the Byzantine empire, and was eventually crushed by the Ottoman turks, who reached Vienna dont 'cha know
Note that most european empires since have claimed the mantle of the Roman empire to validate their actions. tsar and kaiser are both coruptions of ceasar..............
Presumably Amazon only has the US patent on one click shopping?
I realise its been said before, but couldn't you just set up your server elsewere.
Given that patents have always been national exploitation rights, (ie granted monopolys) and the net is inherently international it should either get its own patenting body (which countries would have to agree to enforce) or be outside the realm of the patents system
While we're talking about old computers i have access to virtually unlimited supplies of 486's.
(mostly dx2/66s, no more than 16mb ram given the availible simms and slots; disks in the 400 - 600 mb capacity range)
One is well on its way to being a modem router/firewall. Anouther is being used a a print server, and running a disk used for network back-up.
.........Anybody have idea's as to anything i can reasonably do with the rest? (i can get 10Mbit ethernet with most of them)
☺
Perhaps Jobs does deserve his place, not for what he did at Apple, but for what he did at NeXT
If Tim B-L deserves 1st for knocking together a web-browser, then maybe Jobs deservers his place for producing the box that Tim insisted was a neccessary tool to develope his hypertext system.
Of course Tim's real motivation may not have been the objective C RAD platform, or the UI, but because, like the rest of us, he found those black cubes and their laser disks rather sexy
Whatever you say you cant escape it, the WWW was invented on a Jobs machine.
Even these are having a comeback, a biggie on the student circuit is DopeWars, basicly trade wars with drugs ....and on the subject of trading games: Elite, will we see its like again?
Slashdot Mirror
Given the reasonable success of these systems I wonder when people are going to start exploiting this sort of system comercially. Given the amounts being Invested in many-many processor systems (ASCI white et al) there has to be a market. This could even pay for free web access [ie I guarentee that my computer will give them X MIPS/year of processing, they give me free net access the rest of the time] It could also provide network revenue for internet backbones.
..but then again, the administration might cost more than increasingly cheap compu time ;o( ...
Apart from this surely these things should have even more users. Im surprised that govenment dont require schools, libaries universities etc etc to give away there free compu time to govenment projects this could then be used for whatever in return for larger IT bugets.
While fully intending to be pedantic I feel I must point out that the origins of xyzzy are in Colossal cave adventure [it has many psuedonemes] that IIRC started tis whole IF bug. Again IIRC you had say it while holding the rod to teleport to the house...
...Plover
is it legally binding?
can i sue?
s'ok everybody else does
thanks for a laugh Arww explain the joke DrThingymawatsit
☺
My germans pretty awful, but it basically means:
The machine is not for poking or holding [grabbing?]. It easily breaks or stops working, blowsfuses or explodes spitting sparks. It is nor for use [operation?] by stupid-heads [idiots]. The rubbernecked sightseers should keep there hands in their pockets, Relax and watch the lights blink!!
Though what thats about i know not.....
This is true,
..............its time for the calc-OS FLAMEWARS
Its also made me realise that i've never really thought about calculators having OSes before.
So kiddies, sharpen your tongues, and prepare your FUD attacks because.................
lmmfao ☺
an ~500MHz i386 chip could be a little of an overkill, even for those fancy, all singing graphical calcs, surely an low end ARM, or something by TI would be sufficient
.....opps just noticed you were an AC, have I been trolled?
I thinks this is a good developement, if the crusoe chip can get out in volume, and offer massively increased (ie 2x or 3x) battery life, then the venture should become profitiable very quickly. The main point of this, to me anyway, is that I think low power chips should be very useful on the desktop, finally realising the dream of a silent-running PC. This isnt going to happen (in the intel world anyway) until low-power chips are selling in the volumes necassary to begin to compete on price
One thought that occurs to me, is that, for those of us outside the Windows world, there are presumably some alreay existant low-power CPU designs out there (the last generation of StrongARMs spring to mind, there must be others). Does anybody know if any company is making low-powered linux/BSD portables now?
Also [inadvertantly starting a flame war?] how do the various OSes stack up in their use of notebook features, in power-management, in the execution of 'sleep' modes, etc etc
{as you might have guessed, im buying my first notebook soon ☺}
While ive no doubt that their doing this for political/propaganda/militiary reasons, its wonderful to see some seemingly just-for-the sake-off-it space exploration/travel. Like a previous poster i've dreamt of going to space since i was a toddler, and only this sort of boundary pushing stuff is going to ever make it a common-place experience.
Technologically speaking I believe that it's going to be relatively easy for them to get there. Of course there still going to have to use ridiculous fuel-loads, but developements in material science (alloys, ceramics, even plastics) and even things like CAD/CAE and computer-controlled factories are going to mean that the precision building and heatshileding etc are going to be relatively simple, even relatively cheap (i.e. cheap compared to basically bankrupting the USSR and giving the USA what should have been, and still should be, crippleing dept).
On the other-hand, I might have an issue with a country that still has a peasent economy spending billions on space travel, but then again, i know economics doesnt work like that, so I'm free to support them.
..........I wonder if there going to use one of those 'supercomputing PS2s they've banned for the guidance system? [dont laugh, its more than powerful enough.
Alot of this has already been said, but here's my take on it..
1stly dont assume that DELL have got this wrong, particuarly if there using fairly 'out the box' setting sfor linux and Apache. IIS is designed to run on the sort of hardware that DELL puts out, were as Apache is designed to run on pretty much anything (much the same could be said for NT and Linux/BSD)
This means that alot of work will have to go into optomising Linux and Apache for the open source solution to perform optimally. [for instance its typical to get a 2-fold or higher increase in disk IO by configureing hdparm etc correctly] It may be that DELL havent put this effort in, perhaps because they recieve less mark-up (and tech-support revenue??) or because they have less linux expertise. Its also perfectly possible that they have, and that, on their hardware, IIS is faster
It might well be worth contacting DELL and asking for more details on the setting used in the test, perhaps even trying to talk to someone involved in doing the testing, to see how much optimisation was done. Even if the Apache version wasn't highly optomised, you have to consider wether your company has the skills to optomise [and support you optimisations] yourself. If not you might well be better going for IIS.
You should also point out the importance of stability for the server, particularly if its for e-commerce, and ensure this factor is taken into consideration.
It may be that NT/IIS is the best solution for our company, dont worry about this, given its market share, and the fact that its free anyway, your usage is not going to have a great effect on the future of Apache. ☺
I know i shouldn't comment on the moderation and all, but off topic? the 1st and 3rd paragraphs (about 70% of the text) are definately on topic, dealing directly with the headline/article.
the 2nd and 4th are tangential i admit, but not grossly (IMESHADO, lol)
The artical is definately poorly spelt, may well be redundant (people posted most of its points while i was writing it), ws probably overrated, but it is ontopic
Note it isnt the karma loss im complaining about, im not even complaining really, i didnt deserve the previous +1 for his anyway, im just suprised that it was worth the mod-point.
I promise never to post about my moderation again...
Feel free to mark this one offtopic, IT is ☺
I havent been following neural nets since the very early days, but i was under the impression that this [the abitity to distinguish one thing {even a complexd thing}] was state of the art.
...or is it just a publicity stunt?
Is the point more in the competition, were by they can discover the relationship between the 'best guess' on the question model, and the actual workings and consider the implications of this to our [their?] assumptions on how to build a 'net, and indeed how HUman minds work.
Also does anybody know of a good [non-too-tech] site on the present state of play in 'nets?
I think thgis is going to have little affect on the open source community really
;( ) bring some extra developement capitial into the arena.
................what i dont get is why Apha bases appliences arent being aggressively produced? THe bang/$ isnt that bad, and you can run linux, BSD, Tru64 unix, even NT on them for christs-sakes, talk about adaptable......
Sure Sun are bound to more the OS obver to Solaris, they are however going to do this because Solaris is there area of expertise rather than on the relative technical merits of the systems. These boxes are still going to be running a heap of OSS (Apache et al).
This isnt necessarily going to have a big affect on linux's market share, as owners of cobaly systems aret going to upgrade overnight, it simply means that sun have a presence in the web-appliance market.
LInux's percieved market share is going to rocket anyway, given IBM's plans to run 'virtual' linux servers on top of there AIX boxes.
What perhaps is important about this purchase is that the financial world will see that companies selling linux solutions are being seen by the big-boys as a threat/startegic opportunity. This should result in the increase in credit rating etc of some linux companies, which may (probably not though
Presumably this things going to be extremely automated, ie run by a computer.
I mean the space station, not the shuttle ☺
Seriously, on a purchast this size cant you borrow [or even rent] the system, and test your apps on it? I realise that there is a huge amount of setting up to do, but you could just do enough to try out the systen
Are you going to keep the present system running in parallel? if not what do you plan to do with it?
If your system is only just starting to back up, and the new [sgi] system represents at least a doubling of power, then with both SGI systems running you'd have 3+ times the power, is that enough for the forseeable future?
Surely IBM and Compaq (ie DEC) are worth getting a quote from before you commit?
Presumably this things going to be extremely automated, ie run by a computer.
It would be interesting to know what sort of hardware they're packing, i would presume energy efficiency, reliability and long life time are the major criteria for a space station processor, what are they running?
What sort of operating system? Ok its going to be highly customised, but it must be based on something Also what sort of fail-safe system do they have, Is the computer in contact (ie satilite network etc) with a ground based computer, if so is this computer isolated from the internet? if not, could they hack the shuttle?.
I presume these things arnt classified anymore, maybe i'm naive again.......
while we're thinking about this, '. ' [ie dot, or dot space] seems to be a well formed TLD, so we could have slash.
.....well it works for me
.sex, .xxx domains seem to be a good idea, and should avaoid all those 'accidental' visits to porn sites
On a more serious note the
When the Greek empire got to big to be able to control, it fell and there rose the Roman empire
...On the other hand a Greek [Macedonian], Alexander, did conqueror a huge empire, but it started to collapse as soon as he died.
There was never a 'Greek-empire' as such, what we call ancient Greece was a large collection of politically independent, culturally similiar states; sharing strong trading links and centered aroung the Agean sea. The term is perhaps comparable to the use of 'the west' today.
(my historical knowledge fails me at that point)
If your interested the empire in the west collapsed, and was latter, to a degree, ressurected by charlmagne (charles the great); it then spilt into France and the Holy Roman Empire, which was what they used to call Germany (except it included modern-day poland, austria and benelux etc etc )
The empire survived in the east untill about 900ad (IIRC) with the capitial being Constantinople (Istanbul). This is usual refered to as the Byzantine empire, and was eventually crushed by the Ottoman turks, who reached Vienna dont 'cha know
Note that most european empires since have claimed the mantle of the Roman empire to validate their actions. tsar and kaiser are both coruptions of ceasar..............
lol, looking back it looks like he'd died or something....
.....anyway he's left /., see see http://slashdot.org/ users.p l?op=userinfo&nick=Signal%2011 for details
Presumably Amazon only has the US patent on one click shopping?
;o(
I realise its been said before, but couldn't you just set up your server elsewere.
Given that patents have always been national exploitation rights, (ie granted monopolys) and the net is inherently international it should either get its own patenting body (which countries would have to agree to enforce) or be outside the realm of the patents system
Sig11, you'll be missed
While we're talking about old computers i have access to virtually unlimited supplies of 486's.
.........Anybody have idea's as to anything i can reasonably do with the rest? (i can get 10Mbit ethernet with most of them)
(mostly dx2/66s, no more than 16mb ram given the availible simms and slots; disks in the 400 - 600 mb capacity range)
One is well on its way to being a modem router/firewall. Anouther is being used a a print server, and running a disk used for network back-up.
☺
Hope that you enjoy the job. I'm rather jealous.
Perhaps Jobs does deserve his place, not for what he did at Apple, but for what he did at NeXT
If Tim B-L deserves 1st for knocking together a web-browser, then maybe Jobs deservers his place for producing the box that Tim insisted was a neccessary tool to develope his hypertext system.
Of course Tim's real motivation may not have been the objective C RAD platform, or the UI, but because, like the rest of us, he found those black cubes and their laser disks rather sexy
Whatever you say you cant escape it, the WWW was invented on a Jobs machine.
Even these are having a comeback, a biggie on the student circuit is DopeWars, basicly trade wars with drugs
....and on the subject of trading games: Elite, will we see its like again?