Are they afraid that they'll wind up not embracing standards or at least its vocabulary... Can you hear them argue in 2006 "well we had these same webapplications through out chrome.NET interface which was largely compliant with Java script".. or something along those lines.
I sense that they are getting a teeny lil bit scared that they might get too detached from OSS tech and so they try to at least grab buzzwords from over the fence, always leaving a full jump-into-the-pool or hostile takeover of a certain tech field (or attempt) possible, even logical.
I've never seen MS talk about "chrome" before, and Firebird == Mozilla + more XUL and it's geared mostly towards Windows it seems (which might explain why as nice as it may be, it runs quite badly on my freeBSD box). Moz/FB is getting increasingly popular with Windows users if what I hear and read is true.
Now that I've finished the code, err, lyrics, just this once I won't repost but keep the.sig for a while... Enjoy.
HEY SCO
Hey SCO, it's time to go. Take your sad code and make it better Remember you knew it all from the start Now you can start to make it better
Hey SCO, don't be dismayed Scams are made to crumble and shatter The minute you let the GPL in It would begin to make things better
And anytime you feel the blame, hey SCO, relate To USL they still have the t-shirt For all we know your precious code is all a load Of BSD stuff any way
Hey SCO, don't make me laugh. You have sent so so many letters Remember you knew it all from the start Now you can start to make it better
So take your code and leave the spin, hey SCO begin You're waiting for someone to compete with? Well don't you know that it's just you, hey SCO, you'll do The movement you heed has many shoulders
Hey SCO, don't die just yet Take your sad code and make it better Remember we knew it all from the start Now you can start to make it better
Darl-la-la la-la-la-la Darl-la-la-la hey SCO
-- "Hey Jude" (c) John Lennon & Paul McCartney
-- This is satire
-- IANAL but AFAIK and IIUC this specific parody can be considered to be in the public domain
-- Hi Darl! And your brothers Darl, Kevin and Kevin! Hi!
Now I'm sorry I blew my mod points earlier. Thanks, also to parent. We urgently need this kind of debate exactly because everything seems to be falling to pieces more rapidly every day. And I mean world wide.
Call it getting prepared for all I care. Call me a basket case. But everything is indicating where we're heading and it's not going away by mere handwaiving or denial. I sure don't welcome further escalation of all things already escalating (right now) but neither will be surprised when it happens.
As bad and interesting as the seperate factoids are the overall immense escalation scares the hell out of me to be honest. So yes, we need debate like this and focus less on the factoids. They're just snippets.
I fully agree. That's essentially the argument they're making. Copyright exists in order to profit of the copyrighted work, so they argue. The sad thing is that we're gonna be looking at 18 more months of rehashing the same thing.
OK, it's the first with this mindshare. Caldera could have been. Easily. If they had kept their heads str8. I never liked them too much but at OL 2.2'ish they had one nice product.
(they were a fork of redhat though but they could have be the center of Linux today yes)
As far as the thing with IBM, well I'm enjoying the soap and I feel it's a lot of FUD but we'll see. I wonder if they will ever challenge BSD. Once they do so, sell your stock:-)
Since the discussion so far was so boring let's instead wonder why RH is so eager to wlk the "established commerce" path.
I'll tell you what their problem is: they're the first. The first always loses. They get to fight the hardest their own community, they get all the surprises boomeranged back to them, they just get everything first. Even if they don't really innovate. And _that_ is going to kill them. They don't know how to react any more (heck no one does) and so they jump back into corporate logic... which they were seen as being a counter to.
I don't know I don't have much love for them but neither do I have any hate towards them. But I feel that the 5th or so is going to be the one that matters 5 years from now. Heck it may be a BeOS clone or a BSD even so. IMHO, we're now at a point where armies die, believe it or not.
One more useless qualification-paid-for-sign-dotted-line.
People should really get it through their skulls that this is not going to help and that talent may not be in their brokerage system already when looking for it (and so they miss out).
One more example of commodifying the _wrong_ thing. Can pay in the short term but ughugh the longer term....
When something happens, formalizing it usually means restricting it from "just" happening further. Mkay;-)
Now look for other scams to see through. It never stops. But yes, excellent point you made there. We're being taught expectations (and perhaps also built-in pardons) as much as we're being taught knowledge. There's a flipping point somewhere.
OK let me also say something about the subject: I think the crucial thing is do we view (the ability to use) the computer as an end or as a mean.
Most would agree mean or tool, so I would think that it would be good for a teacher to first tell the class about something, then have some discussion and what-if speculation and _then_ use the puter for further research into real life examples of what was talked about, or perhaps with a program that does certain calculations where the pupils merely need to know how it should be calculated but not perform it theirselves, or so.
So, computer usage as a tool, not as a goal. I'd be pressed to feel that generally one could say that when the teacher says Listen kids, not only the murmering should fade out but also the looking at thge screen should be suspended until the collective/community intermezzo is over. Then it's OK to go back to merely me/my problem/my screen/my what-if/etc.
In the end it probably means that knowledge transfer does take both personal "one on one" style explaining and challeging as well as individual exploring. Taking only the individual route can work well for a long time, until (s)he gets across something that forces him/her to change insight about a LOT of things merely because they were never guided enough to recognise flaws in their reasoning at an early stage.
Being self taught is great and may suffice but not without a good foundation which really requires personal knowledge transfer IMHO. And of course one person isn't a copy of the other so milages will vary.
From TFA: "due the nature of the DNS it *CACHES* the entries"
No, that's BIND. And a BIND zonefile is just that: a BIND zonefile. All this is about BIND, not DNS. It does not work "over" or "with" or "through" DNS.
It's not clever either. More like abusing other people's resources.
Sorry I submitted too soon (hmm rather hit the wrong button;-) Let me clarify: I think that having techinical nitpick debates is counterproductive if we are as a group or community to see what's going on and stand up to this kind op legislature (sp? I'm Dutch) and we should see how for some mysterious reason it's always against "the little man who happens to be in the know".
Hope that clarifies the point I was trying to make and why I really didn't want a tech discussion over this but rather a political one. This is a political thing. Sorry if I confused you and thanks for answering.
More people on/. should get involved and answer and debate and most of all research (hey you got Google..... for now). If they end up at a conclusion that I don't like, well, great, good. I don't like it but OK most do.
But the absense of any real debate or only the kind that's easily being dispersed into "side-debates" about tech and all (my earlier point) while loosing what it was about socio-economical, or politically or well you name it anything != geeky, if we give in to that constanly we are only asking to be misled and basically saying "we'll swalow anything just have it contain tech controversies or disagreements".
Yes I'm using far too many words again but I'm pretty sure they sufficiently illustrate where I'm coming from and wher I hope for better or worse to arrive at.
All this probaly gives more insight into my person as anything else but I still hope it explains my post and my reasoning.
I don't like to be zealous. But if this goes on, we are running out of time. And with "we" I mean "we" as broad as you can find imaginable.
Oh but I certainly wasn't saying this wil be like the end of everything else!
But the python interpreter/runtime *is* quite small and loads quickly. That was all I was saying. If you put a haystack on top of that, well yeah you'll have a hard time turning that into a flying thunderbird. But the interpreter itself compared to todays average computing capability is indeed almost negligible IMHO.
And of course you can always port performance critical components to C but I have a feeling that unless they're implemented very efficiently that they will not notably outperform higher level apps. Apps may be coded a lot worse than that "big fat" interpreter you know. Chances are that's true for most randomly picked projects. Bad responsiviness of a GUI during runtime is IMHO a sign of bad programmer/programming logic hooked into the GUI than the GUI toolkit itself or the language for that matter.
Obviously if it does matter AND if raw speed is important you should code in C or even assembler or straight CPU specific assembler. But I have the feeling it rarely matters. Always think about where the speed gets lost. 'While waiting' will be 90% of the answer usually IMHO, but I have to say that I am by no means a very experienced (GUI) programmer. I learnt it because no one ever taught me. In my own way, forcily so to speak, thank heaven that the needed info is available nowadays...
Not that a higher level scripting/OO language automatically makes the code better. But it has the potential if only by shorting it O(1) in terms of lines of code. OO.o has python bindings IIRC. One should be able to whip out a python script that looks at your OO.o document and does something with it and produce results from that. It would be like 20 to 50 lines.
I recently did a (admittedly simple) accounting app with wxPython primarily meant for personal use. It worked for me and though at this point its private and language and accounting system (double accounting with 3 digit decimal system) is kinda fixed, it may be useful for more people.
For me, it gave me something that I (hopefully;-) can trust my data to, something that I'm sure will not disappear next year, something I can change, and something that can produce everything on paper if needed. With any 3rd party solution, open source or not, I would have been on their mercy and survival. Many IT firms die daily.
But I digress, though it does illustrate some use of python as GUI oriented language. Yes the stupid accounting data is rendered through HtmlWindow, it was easiest:) What matters is I can get the info and it's free to use and it works.
Less trivial GUI stuff, well, anything you can basically do with GTK or MFC you should be able to do with Wx. It's always a drag and a lot of work to connect logic with GUI widgets of course.
I should also say that GUI programming is mostly something I've come across with only when needed and it's never fun. And that generally we seem to agree so this is not a post insisting on disagreeing. I do think one can write robust server software in python as well as robust client/desktop end-user-GUI stuff. But it has to be done well of course and that is never easy;-)
I ran spambayes for weeks on end without it getting anywhere near the top of my 'top':)
Greetings & all the best. Thanks for answering. More people should.
Without ever using Jython but having used the python interpreter and java bytecode, yes I can state that pure python runs rather fast, much like perl or php I reckon. With a GUI toolkit binded (imported) it's still reasonably fast but the initial loading might take some time. I'd think thats always the case when importing large modules though.
Correct. End of discussion. That's what matters, that's what should be communicated.
Yes and not just that
on
Who Is An ISP?
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
from what I've gathered the law can also easily be used against grassroots political campaigns through email. E.g. postal address must be present, all headers must be correct (you sent the mail from your laptop through your gateway PC.. well.. you seem to have been forging headers..., think about NAT,...).
It's full of traps and not in our favor. Was on DemocracyNow (dot org) with a guy from EFF yesterday. Guess most of you freedom fighters here are not very active in informing yourselves let alone fight (err, for?) freedom.
And those who now start elaborate threads about headers and all, I'm shorting the tech fluff down because it's about the POINT I'm trying to make. Discuss the point.
A part of you ("Might be a good idea", "Any law better than none", "Kill the spammers", etc) have fallen for the same propaganda that got people to accept the patriot barbe wire thing cheered at and approved of. They play on your (often righteous) complaints or fears and sneak in a traversy of a solution. Which is not designed in your interest but delivered as such surely it is.
One would think people wisen up, but it appears that "we" as "intellectuals" are actually much more susceptable to this kind of honey smearing. That should be some food for thought.
The devil is always in the details but people seem to not be able to shake off the idea that details == small things.
Slashdot Mirror
MSN Explorer-XUL with ..gasp.. Bayesian spam filters (use mssb-setup.ini)?
Are they afraid that they'll wind up not embracing standards or at least its vocabulary... Can you hear them argue in 2006 "well we had these same webapplications through out chrome.NET interface which was largely compliant with Java script".. or something along those lines.
I sense that they are getting a teeny lil bit scared that they might get too detached from OSS tech and so they try to at least grab buzzwords from over the fence, always leaving a full jump-into-the-pool or hostile takeover of a certain tech field (or attempt) possible, even logical.
I've never seen MS talk about "chrome" before, and Firebird == Mozilla + more XUL and it's geared mostly towards Windows it seems (which might explain why as nice as it may be, it runs quite badly on my freeBSD box). Moz/FB is getting increasingly popular with Windows users if what I hear and read is true.
Just some thoughts.
HEY SCO
Hey SCO, it's time to go.
Take your sad code and make it better
Remember you knew it all from the start
Now you can start to make it better
Hey SCO, don't be dismayed
Scams are made to crumble and shatter
The minute you let the GPL in
It would begin to make things better
And anytime you feel the blame, hey SCO, relate
To USL they still have the t-shirt
For all we know your precious code is all a load
Of BSD stuff any way
Hey SCO, don't make me laugh. You have sent so so many letters
Remember you knew it all from the start
Now you can start to make it better
So take your code and leave the spin, hey SCO begin
You're waiting for someone to compete with?
Well don't you know that it's just you, hey SCO, you'll do
The movement you heed has many shoulders
Hey SCO, don't die just yet
Take your sad code and make it better
Remember we knew it all from the start
Now you can start to make it better
Darl-la-la la-la-la-la Darl-la-la-la hey SCO
-- "Hey Jude" (c) John Lennon & Paul McCartney
-- This is satire
-- IANAL but AFAIK and IIUC this specific parody can be considered to be in the public domain
-- Hi Darl! And your brothers Darl, Kevin and Kevin! Hi!
Let em dot-com each other out of business. Used to be their usual game after they caught up with this Internet thing wasn't it?
Now I'm sorry I blew my mod points earlier. Thanks, also to parent. We urgently need this kind of debate exactly because everything seems to be falling to pieces more rapidly every day. And I mean world wide.
Call it getting prepared for all I care. Call me a basket case. But everything is indicating where we're heading and it's not going away by mere handwaiving or denial. I sure don't welcome further escalation of all things already escalating (right now) but neither will be surprised when it happens.
As bad and interesting as the seperate factoids are the overall immense escalation scares the hell out of me to be honest. So yes, we need debate like this and focus less on the factoids. They're just snippets.
I fully agree. That's essentially the argument they're making. Copyright exists in order to profit of the copyrighted work, so they argue. The sad thing is that we're gonna be looking at 18 more months of rehashing the same thing.
No that was only released on punchcards and not updated after. It doesn't count anymore.
It's very lame to mod me down just for not agreeing with the general hoopla.
At least respond then. Controversy and debate are good things at least in my world they are.
Actually Slack was the first distro
OK, it's the first with this mindshare. Caldera could have been. Easily. If they had kept their heads str8. I never liked them too much but at OL 2.2'ish they had one nice product.
:-)
(they were a fork of redhat though but they could have be the center of Linux today yes)
As far as the thing with IBM, well I'm enjoying the soap and I feel it's a lot of FUD but we'll see. I wonder if they will ever challenge BSD. Once they do so, sell your stock
Since the discussion so far was so boring let's instead wonder why RH is so eager to wlk the "established commerce" path.
I'll tell you what their problem is: they're the first. The first always loses. They get to fight the hardest their own community, they get all the surprises boomeranged back to them, they just get everything first. Even if they don't really innovate. And _that_ is going to kill them. They don't know how to react any more (heck no one does) and so they jump back into corporate logic... which they were seen as being a counter to.
I don't know I don't have much love for them but neither do I have any hate towards them. But I feel that the 5th or so is going to be the one that matters 5 years from now. Heck it may be a BeOS clone or a BSD even so. IMHO, we're now at a point where armies die, believe it or not.
Footnotes are recorded right now.
You're right, it's not funny, it's sad.
One more useless qualification-paid-for-sign-dotted-line.
;-)
People should really get it through their skulls that this is not going to help and that talent may not be in their brokerage system already when looking for it (and so they miss out).
One more example of commodifying the _wrong_ thing. Can pay in the short term but ughugh the longer term....
When something happens, formalizing it usually means restricting it from "just" happening further. Mkay
Yes that's certainly a point of view that cannot be overstated. Excellent contribution. Thanks. I agree.
:-)
(as I can't seem to get my karma down at least in these ways I can use it usefully
(more people should do this BTW we should be concerned with quality of discussion then with viewpoints than with trolls)
/me * applaudes *
Now look for other scams to see through. It never stops. But yes, excellent point you made there. We're being taught expectations (and perhaps also built-in pardons) as much as we're being taught knowledge. There's a flipping point somewhere.
Perhaps, but two would be great :-)
OK let me also say something about the subject: I think the crucial thing is do we view (the ability to use) the computer as an end or as a mean.
Most would agree mean or tool, so I would think that it would be good for a teacher to first tell the class about something, then have some discussion and what-if speculation and _then_ use the puter for further research into real life examples of what was talked about, or perhaps with a program that does certain calculations where the pupils merely need to know how it should be calculated but not perform it theirselves, or so.
So, computer usage as a tool, not as a goal. I'd be pressed to feel that generally one could say that when the teacher says Listen kids, not only the murmering should fade out but also the looking at thge screen should be suspended until the collective/community intermezzo is over. Then it's OK to go back to merely me/my problem/my screen/my what-if/etc.
In the end it probably means that knowledge transfer does take both personal "one on one" style explaining and challeging as well as individual exploring. Taking only the individual route can work well for a long time, until (s)he gets across something that forces him/her to change insight about a LOT of things merely because they were never guided enough to recognise flaws in their reasoning at an early stage.
Being self taught is great and may suffice but not without a good foundation which really requires personal knowledge transfer IMHO. And of course one person isn't a copy of the other so milages will vary.
From TFA: "due the nature of the DNS it *CACHES* the entries"
No, that's BIND. And a BIND zonefile is just that: a BIND zonefile. All this is about BIND, not DNS. It does not work "over" or "with" or "through" DNS.
It's not clever either. More like abusing other people's resources.
... you get credit for your work.
Not just that. You retain copyright by the BSDL therefore the code you submitted under BSDL always remains BSDL.
So it's copyright and visible acknowledgement of that. But that's all AFAIU.
Sorry I submitted too soon (hmm rather hit the wrong button ;-) Let me clarify: I think that having techinical nitpick debates is counterproductive if we are as a group or community to see what's going on and stand up to this kind op legislature (sp? I'm Dutch) and we should see how for some mysterious reason it's always against "the little man who happens to be in the know".
/. should get involved and answer and debate and most of all research (hey you got Google..... for now). If they end up at a conclusion that I don't like, well, great, good. I don't like it but OK most do.
Hope that clarifies the point I was trying to make and why I really didn't want a tech discussion over this but rather a political one. This is a political thing. Sorry if I confused you and thanks for answering.
More people on
But the absense of any real debate or only the kind that's easily being dispersed into "side-debates" about tech and all (my earlier point) while loosing what it was about socio-economical, or politically or well you name it anything != geeky, if we give in to that constanly we are only asking to be misled and basically saying "we'll swalow anything just have it contain tech controversies or disagreements".
Yes I'm using far too many words again but I'm pretty sure they sufficiently illustrate where I'm coming from and wher I hope for better or worse to arrive at.
All this probaly gives more insight into my person as anything else but I still hope it explains my post and my reasoning.
I don't like to be zealous. But if this goes on, we are running out of time. And with "we" I mean "we" as broad as you can find imaginable.
I am one of those crazy *BSD people.
That it is not for but against you.
Oh but I certainly wasn't saying this wil be like the end of everything else!
;-) can trust my data to, something that I'm sure will not disappear next year, something I can change, and something that can produce everything on paper if needed. With any 3rd party solution, open source or not, I would have been on their mercy and survival. Many IT firms die daily.
:) What matters is I can get the info and it's free to use and it works.
;-)
:)
But the python interpreter/runtime *is* quite small and loads quickly. That was all I was saying. If you put a haystack on top of that, well yeah you'll have a hard time turning that into a flying thunderbird. But the interpreter itself compared to todays average computing capability is indeed almost negligible IMHO.
And of course you can always port performance critical components to C but I have a feeling that unless they're implemented very efficiently that they will not notably outperform higher level apps. Apps may be coded a lot worse than that "big fat" interpreter you know. Chances are that's true for most randomly picked projects. Bad responsiviness of a GUI during runtime is IMHO a sign of bad programmer/programming logic hooked into the GUI than the GUI toolkit itself or the language for that matter.
Obviously if it does matter AND if raw speed is important you should code in C or even assembler or straight CPU specific assembler. But I have the feeling it rarely matters. Always think about where the speed gets lost. 'While waiting' will be 90% of the answer usually IMHO, but I have to say that I am by no means a very experienced (GUI) programmer. I learnt it because no one ever taught me. In my own way, forcily so to speak, thank heaven that the needed info is available nowadays...
Not that a higher level scripting/OO language automatically makes the code better. But it has the potential if only by shorting it O(1) in terms of lines of code. OO.o has python bindings IIRC. One should be able to whip out a python script that looks at your OO.o document and does something with it and produce results from that. It would be like 20 to 50 lines.
I recently did a (admittedly simple) accounting app with wxPython primarily meant for personal use. It worked for me and though at this point its private and language and accounting system (double accounting with 3 digit decimal system) is kinda fixed, it may be useful for more people.
For me, it gave me something that I (hopefully
But I digress, though it does illustrate some use of python as GUI oriented language. Yes the stupid accounting data is rendered through HtmlWindow, it was easiest
Less trivial GUI stuff, well, anything you can basically do with GTK or MFC you should be able to do with Wx. It's always a drag and a lot of work to connect logic with GUI widgets of course.
I should also say that GUI programming is mostly something I've come across with only when needed and it's never fun. And that generally we seem to agree so this is not a post insisting on disagreeing. I do think one can write robust server software in python as well as robust client/desktop end-user-GUI stuff. But it has to be done well of course and that is never easy
I ran spambayes for weeks on end without it getting anywhere near the top of my 'top'
Greetings & all the best. Thanks for answering. More people should.
Yes, or if they do want their program made avaiable for free but not under the GPL but under BSD/MIT or even public domain.
Without ever using Jython but having used the python interpreter and java bytecode, yes I can state that pure python runs rather fast, much like perl or php I reckon. With a GUI toolkit binded (imported) it's still reasonably fast but the initial loading might take some time. I'd think thats always the case when importing large modules though.
HTH
Correct. End of discussion. That's what matters, that's what should be communicated.
from what I've gathered the law can also easily be used against grassroots political campaigns through email. E.g. postal address must be present, all headers must be correct (you sent the mail from your laptop through your gateway PC.. well.. you seem to have been forging headers..., think about NAT, ...).
It's full of traps and not in our favor. Was on DemocracyNow (dot org) with a guy from EFF yesterday. Guess most of you freedom fighters here are not very active in informing yourselves let alone fight (err, for?) freedom.
And those who now start elaborate threads about headers and all, I'm shorting the tech fluff down because it's about the POINT I'm trying to make. Discuss the point.
A part of you ("Might be a good idea", "Any law better than none", "Kill the spammers", etc) have fallen for the same propaganda that got people to accept the patriot barbe wire thing cheered at and approved of. They play on your (often righteous) complaints or fears and sneak in a traversy of a solution. Which is not designed in your interest but delivered as such surely it is.
One would think people wisen up, but it appears that "we" as "intellectuals" are actually much more susceptable to this kind of honey smearing. That should be some food for thought.
The devil is always in the details but people seem to not be able to shake off the idea that details == small things.
I agree. That's exactly what it means.