I guess I travel in different circles, but I've never worked with anyone who knew only one computer language.
In any case, if somebody is doing only web work, who cares if they don't know anything about programming outside of that area? Many companies won't let you contribute outside of your designated area and self education is rarely counted in hiring unless you're a new grad.
I think there are two major categories of idea implementations:
1) The good enough implementation that may lead to success.
2) The perfect implementation which is never completed.
And it doesn't just apply to computing. Consider the microwave oven. Without experimentation you don't know whether it will under-cook or over-cook your food or do both at the same time.
It's a very unpredictable cooking machine and yet because it cooks very fast, it's a highly successful product.
How about a 4-bit microcontroller like the National Semiconductor COP411? 512 Bytes of ROM, 32 nibbles (4 bits) of RAM, and 16usec instruction time baby!
You misunderstand. A hex dump still requires a translation of bits to characters, unless the locals can "read" bits right out of memory locations or right off a disk.
Obviously, you know her and I don't. My point was just that sometimes a woman is more flexible when the knot is still not tied than she is afterward. It's not a condemnation of women in general or your fiancee specifically. Men often dress better and keep their apartment neater around women before they are married, and end up sitting around the house in boxer shorts once the honeymoon is over.
Apple really didn't want to include the CL interface, but it was too much trouble to get rid of it.
Seriously, the whole idea of the Mac was to avoid a CLI. If Steve Jobs had passed away before returning to Apple, the current Mac OS would likely not be based on Unix and the Apple faithful would be loving it (by definition).
License keys have nothing to do with the OS - applications could use them on Linux if they wished to. Windows applications can be installed from the web too. Of course, if you want the user to make some installation choices, it can't be done automatically no matter what OS you use.
Very snappy until you actually have to print and you find that small, large and very large text all come out the same size. Getting the fonts setup correctly for WP was a royal pain.
I'd say true type fonts (or similar) alone represent significant progress.
If you don't think there's any difference between firing a reporter for making stuff up vs. encouraging a reporter to make stuff up, then there's no point debating with you.
Of course the NY Times doesn't award the Pulitzer so it has nothing to do with the issue. Blair duped the NY Times, is it your argument that Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly duped (and continue to dupe) Fox News?
I think another factor is how much you use the application and how many other applications you use.
I came of age at a time when Unix was just one of many CLI-based OS's. It was painful and error-prone to have to remember all the different commands for the same operations. Had a GUI been available back then, it would have made us more productive.
I suspect one reason Unix folks like to keep using all the old tools is because they don't want to feel as if the commands they memorized over the years no longer matter.
Yes, there's a lot of stuff in OS's that people don't use much. I remember when Unix didn't include any kind of non-command-line applications. Does the fact that they have more now prove that GUIs were better all along?
Given that Apple has to approve all the apps that go on sale, they should take more responsibility for their quality. There should be some value added for that 30% tax.
First, your "famous example" is based on faulty information - the lady in question already turned down the offer before her comment was posted. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29901380/. I'm not surprised that you assumed you had the details right when that erroneous version corresponded to your own preconceptions.
Even those who get turned down aren't likely to give you an objective opinion. They have nothing to gain by saying anything negative other than ensuring that they will never be interviewed again by your company.
I can see you have too much invested in your process to look at it from the outside. I have some friends like that: good solid people who can't reevaluate their ideas once they've made up their mind.
I agree with a lot of what Joel says, but in this case he's (like you) assuming more competence in his hiring practices than is supported by the facts.
At best, you can only measure the real world performance of those you hire (assuming you can be objective), you can't measure the performance of people you haven't hired. Thus there is little objective evidence that those who you reject are incompetent.
I don't really believe there are candidates out there who have been paid for a decade for "faking it" and wouldn't understand what a "Hello, World" program is unless they've worked only in assembling language. Of course, if their work experience is just made up, a simple call to their ex-employers will clear that up without bothering with an interview.
I'm not saying you're a bad guy, I'm just saying that you aren't very objective about your own theories.
Slashdot Mirror
I guess I travel in different circles, but I've never worked with anyone who knew only one computer language.
In any case, if somebody is doing only web work, who cares if they don't know anything about programming outside of that area? Many companies won't let you contribute outside of your designated area and self education is rarely counted in hiring unless you're a new grad.
I think there are two major categories of idea implementations:
1) The good enough implementation that may lead to success.
2) The perfect implementation which is never completed.
And it doesn't just apply to computing. Consider the microwave oven. Without experimentation you don't know whether it will under-cook or over-cook your food or do both at the same time.
It's a very unpredictable cooking machine and yet because it cooks very fast, it's a highly successful product.
How about a 4-bit microcontroller like the National Semiconductor COP411? 512 Bytes of ROM, 32 nibbles (4 bits) of RAM, and 16usec instruction time baby!
You misunderstand. A hex dump still requires a translation of bits to characters, unless the locals can "read" bits right out of memory locations or right off a disk.
Obviously, you know her and I don't. My point was just that sometimes a woman is more flexible when the knot is still not tied than she is afterward. It's not a condemnation of women in general or your fiancee specifically. Men often dress better and keep their apartment neater around women before they are married, and end up sitting around the house in boxer shorts once the honeymoon is over.
There's a difference between the wife-acceptance-factor and the fiancee-acceptance-factor.
Apple really didn't want to include the CL interface, but it was too much trouble to get rid of it.
Seriously, the whole idea of the Mac was to avoid a CLI. If Steve Jobs had passed away before returning to Apple, the current Mac OS would likely not be based on Unix and the Apple faithful would be loving it (by definition).
With the right viewer or editor anything qualifies as human readable. Even ASCII requires a viewer to be read by humans.
License keys have nothing to do with the OS - applications could use them on Linux if they wished to. Windows applications can be installed from the web too. Of course, if you want the user to make some installation choices, it can't be done automatically no matter what OS you use.
It's different for us. As a group we invented the technology that now allows our work to be outsourced.
Very snappy until you actually have to print and you find that small, large and very large text all come out the same size. Getting the fonts setup correctly for WP was a royal pain.
I'd say true type fonts (or similar) alone represent significant progress.
Don't forget Abby Normal.
"Being able to do everything Excel can do and being able to import an Excel file perfectly are two completely different situations."
They would be different if opening and displaying an Excel file wasn't one of the things Excel can do.
If you don't think there's any difference between firing a reporter for making stuff up vs. encouraging a reporter to make stuff up, then there's no point debating with you.
Of course the NY Times doesn't award the Pulitzer so it has nothing to do with the issue. Blair duped the NY Times, is it your argument that Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly duped (and continue to dupe) Fox News?
No, I meant "people who make stuff up on a daily basis and don't get fired for it".
"Fox news has investigative journalists."
Well, they do if "investigative journalists" means "people who make stuff up".
I think another factor is how much you use the application and how many other applications you use.
I came of age at a time when Unix was just one of many CLI-based OS's. It was painful and error-prone to have to remember all the different commands for the same operations. Had a GUI been available back then, it would have made us more productive.
I suspect one reason Unix folks like to keep using all the old tools is because they don't want to feel as if the commands they memorized over the years no longer matter.
Why not use punched cards? We have to do something with all those tubes.
Yes, there's a lot of stuff in OS's that people don't use much. I remember when Unix didn't include any kind of non-command-line applications. Does the fact that they have more now prove that GUIs were better all along?
It would be nicely symmetric, except that the command line wasn't in the beginning and browsers won't be the end.
Given that Apple has to approve all the apps that go on sale, they should take more responsibility for their quality. There should be some value added for that 30% tax.
First, your "famous example" is based on faulty information - the lady in question already turned down the offer before her comment was posted. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29901380/.
I'm not surprised that you assumed you had the details right when that erroneous version corresponded to your own preconceptions.
Even those who get turned down aren't likely to give you an objective opinion. They have nothing to gain by saying anything negative other than ensuring that they will never be interviewed again by your company.
I can see you have too much invested in your process to look at it from the outside. I have some friends like that: good solid people who can't reevaluate their ideas once they've made up their mind.
now all I have to do is draw the bar code and scan!
I agree with a lot of what Joel says, but in this case he's (like you) assuming more competence in his hiring practices than is supported by the facts.
At best, you can only measure the real world performance of those you hire (assuming you can be objective), you can't measure the performance of people you haven't hired. Thus there is little objective evidence that those who you reject are incompetent.
I don't really believe there are candidates out there who have been paid for a decade for "faking it" and wouldn't understand what a "Hello, World" program is unless they've worked only in assembling language. Of course, if their work experience is just made up, a simple call to their ex-employers will clear that up without bothering with an interview.
I'm not saying you're a bad guy, I'm just saying that you aren't very objective about your own theories.