Available bandwidth/bitrate on wired connections is many times that of wireless. The only thing wireless has going for it is convenience. Granted, that is a big plus
That would be applicable on a classic copper twisted pair or fiber, but not so with BPL. The most you get is a raw 80 Mhz (Mb/s) of bandwidth. Once you consider noise issues, modulation, repeaters, usable frequencies, and a bunch of other factors, you're lucky to get 5 Mb/s on a BPL segment. 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz spectrum available to the public right now with less restrictions has over some 300 Mhz of spectrum.
"Our service can reach into areas that others don't, because the power network is the most pervasive on the planet. It's where the phones aren't and the cable isn't."
This is wrong. BPL is not a long haul technology. It needs to go through repeaters every 200m, depending on the vendor. The economics for deploying this where cable service doesn't exist isn't there, and is infintessimal where phone service doesn't exist. In fact, it's likely they'll have to use telco facilities or fiber to backhaul the data from BPL segments.
Everyone seems to be under the impression that you plug this in to the grid and voila, fifty miles away you have Internet on every wall plug. This is just not so.
The Amperion system uses 3.5 Mhz channels for the downstream channel, and 2.5 Mhz channels for the upstream, both of which are in the 1 to 50 Mhz band. The "last one hundred feet" from the powerline to the customer is WiFi 802.11.
Amperion is a clever system, but in the end it has the smae problems as it counterparts. Because of the need to use different frequencies between repeater segments, it's likely that in any given neighborhood, they'll need to use every chunk of the 1-50Mhz spectrum and will interfere with someone. While frequencies can be reused eventually down the line, the frequency reuse just isn't tight enough, and it makes the interference avoidance plan by BPL providers unviable.
There's no bandwidth growth plan for BPL and the business model for deployment in rural areas is tenuous at best.
BPL is just a roadkill / speedbump on the highway to fiber.
Outsourcing everything to India was in vogue around '97 or '98. It didn't work then and it's not going to work now. But everyone forgets the problems and history repeats itself.
Now the question is cost of doing this over the entire country, which I have no clue.
If you're going to dig up the entire country to bury power lines, why not just run fiber while you're at it ? The additional costs would be minor and fiber is essentially "future proof" and would provide all the bandwidth needed well into the future. BPL has no higher bandwidth migration path and it's flawed technology.
Ok i live in upstate NY and two of the most recent events that would be needed for the emergency brodcast system (9/11, and the Black out this past summer) didn't use it !
Not once was it used durring either event ! so basicaly they should have no say, its an outdated system that is never used anymore.
Furthermore if there is such an emergency they could trip the broadband so it turns off so it won't disrupt their signal...
In anycase horid decision making done by idiotitic buerocrats, to even make a statement like they are.
If this was a valid argument the FCC would be involved.
How do you get a couple hundred independent utilities to shut off their BPL systems in an emergency ? Is residential Internet really so important as we need to wreck infrastructure independent radio communications ? And what about being about to train to use the radio equipment during non-emergency times ?
The EAS doesn't even use HF frequencies and it was established by the FCC. It's a silly statement to dismiss FEMA because you haven't heard EAS broadcasts. And then you say the FCC would be involved ?? They released a friggin Notice of Inquiry months ago. Also, the NTIA which trumps the FCC in spectrum regulatory matters has taken notice and now they're doing a study.
IMO the telco's and cable providers are probably more worried about this than anyone and they've probably filled FEMA up with all kinds of bull about what it might do to fema's spectrum.
And previously everyone was saying that the telcos paid off 700,000 Radio Amateurs, too.:-) The interference potential has been modeled, and field measurements have shown its existence. It's not bull, it's for real.
Of course the FCC should test anything and give it a license which means it cant interfere with anyone elses equipment and FEMA's equipment is supposed to accept any interference. Either way this story is moot and FEMA needs to get their own experts that are not paid by the opposition to formulate their own studies and opinions on the matter.
You have it a bit backwards. FEMA's frequencies are used for public safety and should be free from interference, not the other way around. ( Or is there a typo in your comments ?)
And FEMA does have a fellow agency that is investigating the interference, the NTIA.
Actually it's not one frequency, it's wideband garbage. If it was one frequency, it could probably be a workable system, but the bandwidth would be meager...
Wasn't the original and best argument about this the fact that, *in most cases* when HAMS were in use for emergency communication, the power was already out?
Amateurs need to maintain equipment and practice needed skills before a disaster occurs. If the equipment is unusable during regular times, what is the motivation even to buy equipment? Another thing to consider is that emergency stations need to be able to communicate out to areas that do have power.
Another issue to contend with is the propagation characteristics of the HF radio band which BPL is using. Interference could travel thousands of miles. I doubt anyone will want to track down interference a thousand miles away when a hurricane has just flattened their state.
The episode also includes a how-to for making a BiQuad antenna
How about they do an episode on how to get an Amateur Radio license so you can operate under FCC Part 97 (not 15) and build your own antennas and perform all the radio modifications you want -- legally:-)
Also, any thoughts on whether some of this stuff is even legal, as it is almost certainly not ethical.
Once again, Slashdot's vast panel of legal experts are called upon to provide counsel on key legal issues of our day.
Tune in next week when we get an update on Slashdot's cancer and AIDS research. Key findings from Slashdotters c0red4mp and IRQ5 revealed.
Re:Idiocy - bluetooth just taking off
on
Is Bluetooth Dead?
·
· Score: 1
we still have three different types of cell networks out here (CDMA, TDMA, Sprint PCS, and now GSM). It's a real mess.
There's nothing special about Sprint. They use CDMA.
GSM is just started to be deployed
Really ? Omnipoint was deploying GSM years ago in the states.
Our cell phone providers are stuck in the eighties, and just give us basic services. Sure, they spoon feed text messaging, but we have less than half of the cool stuff available in Europe.
Oh boy, bring on the US Eurotrashing. The geographical area involved with covering Europe is much smaller than the US, and the US has had to deal with different standards because the US started the technology in 1984. Yea, there's still AMPs in service, but there's a lot of legacy to deal with.
Cellular quality in the US has gone to hell because carriers are too busy trying to implement technogarbage features on shiny phones so the carriers can launch their next marketing campaigns.
It's amazing how Slashtrolls insist on denying and trivializing the brutality of the Chinese dictatorship by making bizarre analogies to the US. On Slashdot, every enemy of the US is my friend.
What's great is that we're (US) going to build a $19M wireless Internet system for Iraq. So now the Iraqis can join the Euroslashtrolls in busting on the US.
Once again, US tax dollars at work, undermining the US.
Slashdot Mirror
Available bandwidth/bitrate on wired connections is many times that of wireless. The only thing wireless has going for it is convenience. Granted, that is a big plus
That would be applicable on a classic copper twisted pair or fiber, but not so with BPL. The most you get is a raw 80 Mhz (Mb/s) of bandwidth. Once you consider noise issues, modulation, repeaters, usable frequencies, and a bunch of other factors, you're lucky to get 5 Mb/s on a BPL segment. 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz spectrum available to the public right now with less restrictions has over some 300 Mhz of spectrum.
"Our service can reach into areas that others don't, because the power network is the most pervasive on the planet. It's where the phones aren't and the cable isn't."
This is wrong. BPL is not a long haul technology. It needs to go through repeaters every 200m, depending on the vendor. The economics for deploying this where cable service doesn't exist isn't there, and is infintessimal where phone service doesn't exist. In fact, it's likely they'll have to use telco facilities or fiber to backhaul the data from BPL segments.
Everyone seems to be under the impression that you plug this in to the grid and voila, fifty miles away you have Internet on every wall plug. This is just not so.
The Amperion system uses 3.5 Mhz channels for the downstream channel, and 2.5 Mhz channels for the upstream, both of which are in the 1 to 50 Mhz band. The "last one hundred feet" from the powerline to the customer is WiFi 802.11.
Amperion is a clever system, but in the end it has the smae problems as it counterparts. Because of the need to use different frequencies between repeater segments, it's likely that in any given neighborhood, they'll need to use every chunk of the 1-50Mhz spectrum and will interfere with someone. While frequencies can be reused eventually down the line, the frequency reuse just isn't tight enough, and it makes the interference avoidance plan by BPL providers unviable.
There's no bandwidth growth plan for BPL and the business model for deployment in rural areas is tenuous at best.
BPL is just a roadkill / speedbump on the highway to fiber.
If some Ham radio users lose out on this because they use spectrum that isn't licensed for their use, then too bad.
You're totally clueless. Read CFR Title 47 Part 97. BPL on the other hand is unlicensed but is regulated by Part 15.
Outsourcing everything to India was in vogue around '97 or '98. It didn't work then and it's not going to work now. But everyone forgets the problems and history repeats itself.
If you don't like this fad, wait five minutes...
Now the question is cost of doing this over the entire country, which I have no clue.
If you're going to dig up the entire country to bury power lines, why not just run fiber while you're at it ? The additional costs would be minor and fiber is essentially "future proof" and would provide all the bandwidth needed well into the future. BPL has no higher bandwidth migration path and it's flawed technology.
There's isn't a biological threat from BPL, but the interference issues are very real.
Here's a BPL and Amateur Radio FAQ.
Ok i live in upstate NY and two of the most recent events that would be needed for the emergency brodcast system (9/11, and the Black out this past summer) didn't use it ! Not once was it used durring either event ! so basicaly they should have no say, its an outdated system that is never used anymore. Furthermore if there is such an emergency they could trip the broadband so it turns off so it won't disrupt their signal ...
In anycase horid decision making done by idiotitic buerocrats, to even make a statement like they are.
If this was a valid argument the FCC would be involved.
How do you get a couple hundred independent utilities to shut off their BPL systems in an emergency ? Is residential Internet really so important as we need to wreck infrastructure independent radio communications ? And what about being about to train to use the radio equipment during non-emergency times ?
The EAS doesn't even use HF frequencies and it was established by the FCC. It's a silly statement to dismiss FEMA because you haven't heard EAS broadcasts. And then you say the FCC would be involved ?? They released a friggin Notice of Inquiry months ago. Also, the NTIA which trumps the FCC in spectrum regulatory matters has taken notice and now they're doing a study.
IMO the telco's and cable providers are probably more worried about this than anyone and they've probably filled FEMA up with all kinds of bull about what it might do to fema's spectrum.
:-) The interference potential has been modeled, and field measurements have shown its existence. It's not bull, it's for real.
And previously everyone was saying that the telcos paid off 700,000 Radio Amateurs, too.
Of course the FCC should test anything and give it a license which means it cant interfere with anyone elses equipment and FEMA's equipment is supposed to accept any interference. Either way this story is moot and FEMA needs to get their own experts that are not paid by the opposition to formulate their own studies and opinions on the matter.
You have it a bit backwards. FEMA's frequencies are used for public safety and should be free from interference, not the other way around. ( Or is there a typo in your comments ?)
And FEMA does have a fellow agency that is investigating the interference, the NTIA.
Here or if that gets Slashdotted, here
BPL may be on a single, specific frequency,
Actually it's not one frequency, it's wideband garbage. If it was one frequency, it could probably be a workable system, but the bandwidth would be meager...
Wasn't the original and best argument about this the fact that, *in most cases* when HAMS were in use for emergency communication, the power was already out?
Amateurs need to maintain equipment and practice needed skills before a disaster occurs. If the equipment is unusable during regular times, what is the motivation even to buy equipment? Another thing to consider is that emergency stations need to be able to communicate out to areas that do have power.
Another issue to contend with is the propagation characteristics of the HF radio band which BPL is using. Interference could travel thousands of miles. I doubt anyone will want to track down interference a thousand miles away when a hurricane has just flattened their state.
But Groklaw was....
/public/private/groklaw/system/databases/mysql.cla ss.php on line 108
Cannnot connect to DB server
Warning: mysql_connect(): Too many connections in
I know, I know, I should get a life.
/. should get a spellchecker.
No,
It's Friday. :-)
I run BSD and Linux as well as Win2K, BTW. Hypocracy and double standards bug me. Grumble grumble...
Windows Box Gets Hax0red: "Ha ha ha ! Serves 'em right for running Bill Gates' Satanic OS. Let the jokes begin. Moderators, get ready !"
Linux box gets compromised: "Oh, this is so unfortunate. Oh dear. Can I have a moment of silence ?"
Why am I visualizing something from the goatsecx website ? Ugh.
Well, there's one less server to map...
One sheet of aluminum foil over the satellite receiver unit and bingo, Mr. Satellite can't shut down my truck.
you would have to broadcast your callname over it, and then we cant transfer porn.
:-)
It's called a callsign, and it's not pr0n, it's "binary files" to test link integrity...
The episode also includes a how-to for making a BiQuad antenna
:-)
How about they do an episode on how to get an Amateur Radio license so you can operate under FCC Part 97 (not 15) and build your own antennas and perform all the radio modifications you want -- legally
Also, any thoughts on whether some of this stuff is even legal, as it is almost certainly not ethical.
Once again, Slashdot's vast panel of legal experts are called upon to provide counsel on key legal issues of our day.
Tune in next week when we get an update on Slashdot's cancer and AIDS research. Key findings from Slashdotters c0red4mp and IRQ5 revealed.
we still have three different types of cell networks out here (CDMA, TDMA, Sprint PCS, and now GSM). It's a real mess.
There's nothing special about Sprint. They use CDMA.
GSM is just started to be deployed
Really ? Omnipoint was deploying GSM years ago in the states.
Our cell phone providers are stuck in the eighties, and just give us basic services. Sure, they spoon feed text messaging, but we have less than half of the cool stuff available in Europe.
Oh boy, bring on the US Eurotrashing. The geographical area involved with covering Europe is much smaller than the US, and the US has had to deal with different standards because the US started the technology in 1984. Yea, there's still AMPs in service, but there's a lot of legacy to deal with.
Cellular quality in the US has gone to hell because carriers are too busy trying to implement technogarbage features on shiny phones so the carriers can launch their next marketing campaigns.
...courts in Florida appoint our Presidents, don't they ?
It's amazing how Slashtrolls insist on denying and trivializing the brutality of the Chinese dictatorship by making bizarre analogies to the US. On Slashdot, every enemy of the US is my friend.
What's great is that we're (US) going to build a $19M wireless Internet system for Iraq. So now the Iraqis can join the Euroslashtrolls in busting on the US.
Once again, US tax dollars at work, undermining the US.