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Rewriting Rules on Delivery of the Internet

mathin writes "A recent NYTimes (free reg required) article states that, 'The Federal Communications Commission began writing new rules today that officials and industry experts said would profoundly alter both the way the Internet is delivered and used in homes and businesses.' Things under consideration: broad band over electrical wires and VoIP. A little thin on details, but interesting none the less."

185 comments

  1. thank you google by tedtimmons · · Score: 5, Informative
    Here's the no-registration version, thanks to Google.

    And don't forget Marc Majcher's nytview page. It works well if you RTFM.

    -ted, waiting for the inevitable replies about "who cares if they require you to register!" and "big companies are evil!" and "who cares if it isn't goatse!"

    1. Re:thank you google by cshark · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They've been talking about Internet over electrical wires since 96 when nortel started messing around with it in the UK. To date, I haven't been able to find any technical information on it at all. Souds like a good idea though. Imagine it, no one would ever be out of range again! Assuming it IS actually possible.

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

    2. Re:thank you google by Metasquares · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some people would still be out of range.

    3. Re:thank you google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Instead of abusing the Slashdot referrer link you should use the Goatse.cx one, since they expect it to be abused.

      Like this.

      It doesn't matter what you put in the "&partner=" field of the URL, they all work.

  2. For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    let's translate this article into geek-speak:

    The FCC's talking about powerline broadband. Yeah, we're nowhere close to a commercial rollout yet, but at least the regulators are certifying that the plans won't cause massive harm to any other communications tech, so they're about to sign off on it.

    In totally unrelated hearings, Free World Dialup / Pulver.com (who we discussed yesterday seems likely to get the preemptive ruling they were asking for that they not be subject to the regulations that the Ma Bells wish the FCC would slap them with. That battle seems over for good.

    FCC Commissioner Michael J. Copps has made his usual objections to deregulation and sided with the Ma Bells on the FWD issue, but as has been the trend recently, he was outvoted.

    Political types also gave typical quotes about the future of technology. None of which are very newsworthy, but the columnist still had a little space to fill even though he already combined two stories into one report.

    Please do not freak out. For those of you who were mislead by the headline to think that the FCC was debating the merits of IPv6 or something of the like, you can use the back button on your browser to go looking for a more interesting story on the home page now.

    1. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by OverlordQ · · Score: 5, Informative

      The FCC's talking about powerline broadband. Yeah, we're nowhere close to a commercial rollout yet, but at least the regulators are certifying that the plans won't cause massive harm to any other communications tech, so they're about to sign off on it.

      Have we just completely forgotten the problem of BPL totally killing HAM radio?

      Just some background information for you to read.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    2. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just put in my order for an Ameritron 1500 amplifier. I'm ready when BPL comes to my neighborhood.

    3. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Internet over power lines rolled out in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, now...
      http://www.whatsinyourbox.org/index.php

    4. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      have either of you morons forgotten HAM isn't an acronym and is "ham"?

    5. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Zondar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Remember to tell that to the guy holding the radio the next time a disaster comes through your town. He's probably a ham, donating his time, energy and knowledge to helping others by providing communications when every other system is down.

      Be sure to tell him you don't need his help. Get cozy on the roof during that flood, cause you might just be there a while.

    6. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Zarquon · · Score: 1

      The FCC's talking about powerline broadband. Yeah, we're nowhere close to a commercial rollout yet, but at least the regulators are certifying that the plans won't cause massive harm to any other communications tech, so they're about to sign off on it.

      Eh? I thought it was fairly well established that all of the BPL schemes create massive radio interference in the HF bands (used for long-haul radio links, esp. emergency comms).
      --
      "'Tis great confidence in a friend to tell him your faults, greater to tell him his." --Poor Richard's Almanac
    7. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by STrinity · · Score: 3, Informative

      The FCC's talking about powerline broadband. Yeah, we're nowhere close to a commercial rollout yet, but at least the regulators are certifying that the plans won't cause massive harm to any other communications tech, so they're about to sign off on it.

      Depends what you mean by "commercial roll-out". It's commercially available in my area, though it's still a pilot program.

      --
      Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
    8. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      Have we just completely forgotten the problem of BPL totally killing HAM radio? The NY Times most certainly has, and apparently so has the FCC.

    9. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Tassach · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just to play devil's advocate, let's admit that are many more potential users of Broadband over Powerline than there are HAMs -- by at least one order of magnitude, if not more. A lot more people will benefit from gaining broadband than will be hurt by losing HAM frequencies. Isn't it the FCC's stated duty to allocate the EM spectrum in order to maximize the public's benefit from it? And, realistically, let's follow the money: there's no money to be made from HAM radio; there's a lot to be made from broadband over powerline.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
    10. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by frinkster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If a disaster comes through town and we need the ham operators for communication, the power lines have probably been long dead and no longer causing interference.

      Of course the question is will those hams give it up since they can't use it when we have power?

    11. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Timbotronic · · Score: 2, Insightful
      He's probably a ham, donating his time, energy and knowledge to helping others by providing communications when every other system is down

      Don't mean to troll, but isn't this argument a contradiction? If every other system is down, then you'd get no interference and HAM radio would work fine. If broadband over powerlines was running (and causing interference), then you could call for help using that connection.

      Seems to me the only way this scenario can happen is when people are trapped somewhere without cell-phone or telephone access, broadband over powerlines is running through the area but nobody is connected to it or knows how to use a computer to call for help, including the HAM operator who's signal is jammed. Sounds more like a B movie plot than a real situation.

      Broadband powerline interference is a problem granted. I think it could be bad for pilots on HF for example. But this oft-repeated scenario of the heroic HAM operator just doesn't make sense to me.

      --

      One of these days I'm moving to Theory - everything works there

    12. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by pla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Remember to tell that to the guy holding the radio the next time a disaster comes through your town.

      Yeah, sounds nice in theory.

      And what disaster, of a scale requiring us to go back to antiquated ham radio for communication, would also fail to knock out power, thus removing the source of potential interference?

      Some people in previous /. stories on this topic pointed out that the receiving end might still have power. Sorry, but no, that doesn't cut it... Unless we have a disaster on a scale of hundreds of miles in diameter, no one will go running off to find a ham to get help, they'd just use their cell phone, or failing that, drive to the next town. And, assuming help exists, a disaster of that scale would send FEMA scurrying anyway, so no need to bother making contact.

      "Gee, Steve, LA just dissapeared from the power grid, all major broadcasting from the area has stopped, and NOAA visible shows no sources of light... Do you think we should check it out?"
      "Nah... No hams, those true gods among men, have radioed for help. The entire city probably just decided to go to bed early, all at once."

    13. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by HPNpilot · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ham radio HF comm is far from "antiquated." There are plenty of error correcting digital protocols, and associated services use ALE, digitized voice, store and forward BBS systems, and other new technology. However, all these nets will be put out of business with BPL - this is not my analysis, this is the conclusion of FEMA. With the long range nets discontinued, messages to and from family members in affected areas will end. Think about how it would feel if someone in your family was isolated after a disaster and you didn't hear from them for several weeks, only hearing of casualties and scores of missing. Don't be so quick to discount those who would help you and others, because one day you may wish you hadn't.

    14. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And think about how dumb you are because if you can't reach your family because of a disaster, there won't be any power lines active anyway and your precious ham radio will still work.

    15. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by DoraLives · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Don't mean to troll, but isn't this argument a contradiction? If every other system is down, then you'd get no interference and HAM radio would work fine.

      All very well and good, but if ham radio is interfered out, at all times excepting those times when the power is down, ham radio is dead for all intents and purposes.

      Ok, so we've now got a dead technology.

      Exactly how many people do you expect to shell out the money and the effort to learn this dead technology when it's not working correctly 363 and a half days a year? My guess is nobody. Ergo, when the chutney eventually hits the fan large, there will be no hams around to bail our sorry asses out of the jam we're in.

      The blame for that unfortunate situation will lie squarely at the feet of the instrumentality that rendered ham radio operators an extinct species: Broadband over powerlines.

      When the disaster hits, and the air is crystal clear, there's not going to be anybody talking. Me no like.

      --
      Is it fascism yet?
    16. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Please do a little research into the multitude of operating modes before you label ham radio as antiquated. And most amateur radio operators have alternative power sources - read, not the grid - with which to keep the station going. As someone who lives in so-called Hurricane Alley, amateur radio has proven its usefulness on many occasions. Just do some research into the many hurricanes in the past, most recently Isabel. Many parts of eastern NC were without power for weeks. Both cell phones and land lines were useless as well. And even when they came back up, it didn't help those communities whos infastructures were destroyed.

    17. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok- if I am ever in a situation where I am in trouble stranded without any cellphone coverage, the phone lines are out, and I can't figure out how to contact anybody for help using my BPL internet connection that is preventing the local geeks HAM radio from working, I will happily eat crow. But until then I think you are a moron nad I wish you would shut up.

    18. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by VargrX · · Score: 1, Informative
      so sayeth pla:
      And what disaster, of a scale requiring us to go back to antiquated ham radio for communication, would also fail to knock out power, thus removing the source of potential interference?


      September 11, 2001 - Remember that? What the hell do you think that not only myself, but almost every other ham I know in the area where doing? Providing Emergency Communication Services to NYC. Try actually researching something before speaking out of your ass.
      --
      Sometimes people just have to learn and adapt to change, it is one of the requirements of being a living thing.
    19. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by pla · · Score: 1

      September 11, 2001 - Remember that? What the hell do you think that not only myself, but almost every other ham I know in the area where doing?

      Well, considering that only about half of the local cell phone providers went down (and even if no normal lines of communication existed, you couldn't have done anything about the bodies lying in two giant heaps of rubble)... I'd say you did the same thing the rest of us did - Rubbernecked by way of the news. You just used your preferred medium of ham radio, rather than the TV or internet.

      And hey, I'll admit, ham seems like a somewhat cool hobby. But turning up a fast and reliable means of communication, in favor of a slow and obsolete one... Well, kinda defeats the whole purpose of "communication".

    20. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by jim_deane · · Score: 5, Informative

      Who do you think responds to FEMA when they need communications assistance?

      RACES and ARES groups.

      Who supports the Salvation Army with communications for shelters and medical assistance?

      SATERN and ARES.

      Amateur radio is not some antiquated spark-gap device. Providing live, on-scene video feeds of disaster areas; establishing ad-hoc RF computer networks over tens to hundreds (to thousands, if need be) miles to transfer data and images; communicating damage reports to take load off of the public service frequencies; providing primary site-to-site links between emergency operations centers and site command posts (often with agencies that do not use compatible communications equipment)...

      The list goes on indefinitely. If you think amateur radio is something antiquated...you are way, way behind the times.

      Jim kc0lpv

    21. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by pla · · Score: 1

      Many parts of eastern NC were without power for weeks. Both cell phones and land lines were useless as well.

      But that falls into the "no power, no interference" category. Did they manage to bring up broadband cable before even returning phone service? Somehow, I suspect not. The same would apply to broadband over power lines... In an emergency, you'll have a phone back long before you have any source of broadband connections restored.

      Perhaps it would help if you gave me an example where radioing from inside a blacked-out area to somewhere not blacked out would occur, in some non-redundant capacity (ie, "call for help" seems pointless after a hurricane passes through, since everyone knows you have problems). Okay, "keeping in touch", but I for one would gladly give up chatting with the neighbors for two weeks if it means real competition to lower the cost of broadband.

      Additionally, I have another motive for wanting to see BPL, which I suspect most people haven't considered, though many geeks will feel similarly once they hear it...

      I can do without a land-line phone, and go cell-only. I can do without cable - I watch about an hour of TV per week, and what I do watch, I could buy the complete season sets on DVD for far less than my current cable bill; I can also get news and major network shows (not that I watch any) from plain ol' broadcast TV. I cannot, however, currently do without a connection to the power grid, nor do I have any desire to lose my fat internet pipe. With BPL, I can get rid of both the land-line and cable TV, and have all the services I need via power.

    22. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by jim_deane · · Score: 4, Informative

      Those hams who responded to the NY attack did what RACES/ARES/SATERN hams (among others) train to do: they provided vital communications links for search & rescue, for disaster command posts, for health and shelter organizations, and for health/welfare traffic.

      Rubbernecking is not the same thing as reporting and serving. The emergency service portion of amateur radio had its largest scale emergency response that day, and performed admirably.

      Other instances where ham radio has provided very important service:

      Every major hurricaine;
      The Colorado/West Coast wildfires;
      The Columbia accident response.

      If it wasn't an essential service, we wouldn't be part of the emergency planning on the local, state, and federal levels. Officials are going so far as to encourage more people to get licensed: Read here.

      Jim kc0lpv

    23. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Point taken, but their is something else you need to consider. You can't expect a newly licensed ham, who has never even practiced the intracacies of HF communications to just wait for a disaster to cut his/her teeth. You can read the theory and pass the tests with no problem, but until you actually get on the air, set up your first dipole, or learn the role sunspots and the ionosphere play in effective HF communications, you'll do little good when that disaster happens. Sure you could spend thousands on a linear amp and try to overcome the pollution, but would that not create another interference problem in and of itself? Let's not even talk about how shortwave listening would go by the wayside as well.

      Look, I would love to see a non-interfering BPL system developed. But the RF spectrum is a precious resource; let's not waste it with a technology that is easily replaceable with non-harmful methods (DSL,cable,trunk, etc..)

    24. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Goody · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some people in previous /. stories on this topic pointed out that the receiving end might still have power. Sorry, but no, that doesn't cut it... Unless we have a disaster on a scale of hundreds of miles in diameter, no one will go running off to find a ham to get help, they'd just use their cell phone, or failing that, drive to the next town. And, assuming help exists, a disaster of that scale would send FEMA scurrying anyway, so no need to bother making contact.

      Most of the traffic carried on Amateur Radio after a disaster is simple "I'm OK" messages to families outside of the area. While these messages may seem insignificant to you, they mean a lot to the people receiving them. Ham Radio may not save the world, but it still serves a purpose and always will.

      Cellular networks fall on their ass these days during a disaster as they depend heavily on telco landline facilties. People have gotten a false sense of security. Network reliablity and survivablity has gone out the window with cellular networks, in favor of shiny phones and stupid features.

      And by the way, FEMA uses HF frequencies as well. They could potentially experience interference just like Amateur Radio. Do some research.

      --
      Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
    25. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by jim_deane · · Score: 1

      Most full scale HF (high frequency) amateur radios, which are the ones used as a backbone for emergency network traffic, cost $500-$3000, plus another $500-$5000 in associated equipment such as antennas, tuners, test equipment, etc.

      I am happy to give up my day, weekend, whatever, if I am needed for emergency service. Fine. But I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars on radio equipment that I can only use during a major disaster. Not only would I then not get to enjoy the /fun/ side of the hobby when there /aren't/ disasters, but when a disaster /does/ happen I won't have any practice in actually operating on an HF emergency net.

      Would you spend $4000 on a sweet P4 3ghz box with all the latest high-performance parts, and continue to upgrade it and keep it current and tuned, if you were only likely to be able to turn it on once every four or five years, and then only for a day or two?

      Jim kc0lpv

    26. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Umm, just because power is out locally doesn't mean no interference..the frequencies concerned are in the H.F. band, which is approx. 2-30 mhz. The point being is that those frequencies travel a _long_ way. That's the whole point of long-range H.F. radio. You can use a transmitter in the tenths of a watt (0.1) range to communicate hundreds or thousands of miles.
      An operational grid even on the other coast would prevent radio communications. Makes me wonder how that will work with the treaties we have with other countries.

    27. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Goody · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Destroying a large portion of wireless spectrum is not justifiable because it benefits more people. There are many examples of this in society where reallocation of a resource would benefit more people, but it would be detrimental long term to the people and the resource itself. Right now, amateur frequency allocations belong to the people internationally. You can enjoy them by simply passing a test and getting licensed. Once they are given to a business interest, they cease to be yours and you can only use them as a customer of that business. BPL impacts other groups including government, military, shortwave, aviation, maritime communications, and CBers, so this would have national security and international implications as well. BPL has been linked in some rhetoric with increasing "homeland security". BPL in fact takes spectrum away from government agencies directly tasked with protecting the country. So in summary, allowing BPL will ultimately benefit a few utility companies, not the people.

      Users of the affected spectrum cannot be relocated, or at least not economically or in a timely manner, so this is not an option either. It would be cheaper for the government to subsidize cable and DSL deployment. Plus, all of the services that use HF bands require the characteristics that only HF bands exhibit. There would also be huge international treaty implications with any relocation. Changes in international communications treaties are measured in decades, not months or even years. Relocating government and military services alone would take years as the FCC would have to structure a migration plan. Chances are it would be ten years before this could be completed and it's likely that power companies will have run fiber to the home or DSL and cable will finally be ubiquitous. Perhaps the largest issue to tackle, though, is where to move these services in what is an already overcrowded spectrum.

      If it was determined that relocation was the way to go, this would be very irresponsible as HF radio bands are a unique natural resource. No other radio spectrum can provide worldwide communications without any supporting infrastructure (i.e. satellites).

      The FCC has indeed "followed the money" with this NPRM, that's for sure. They ignored computer models, field measurements, and around 5000 comments filed against BPL, and took the claims of one BPL equipment vendor, hook, line and sinker.

      --
      Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
    28. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Dun+Malg · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Just to play devil's advocate, let's admit that are many more potential users of Broadband over Powerline than there are HAMs -- by at least one order of magnitude, if not more. A lot more people will benefit from gaining broadband than will be hurt by losing HAM frequencies. Isn't it the FCC's stated duty to allocate the EM spectrum in order to maximize the public's benefit from it?

      BPL interference isn't reallocation of spectrum, it's just interference. It'd be one thing if they were saying "hams move to bands this, that, and TheOther", but they're not. They're just letting BPL walk all over the ham bands. Also, does the public benefit more from Yet Another Broadband Provider than it does from a free, volunteer-run communications system that has proven itself invaluable in emergencies year after year? I think not. This topic has been covered ad infinitum here on /. already.

      And, realistically, let's follow the money: there's no money to be made from HAM radio; there's a lot to be made from broadband over powerline.

      It's not the FCC's job to maximize corporate profits. If BPL were the ONLY way to get broadband to far flung areas, there might be an argument there but being that there's fiber, wireless, satellite, etc., there's no raitonal justification for steamrolling huge swathes of EM spectrum just so power companies can get in on the ISP game.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    29. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we need HAM... won't the power be out?

    30. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by jim_deane · · Score: 1

      If we need HAM... won't the power be out?


      I can operate for days without any outside source of power. Longer if you include the station in my car with the extra battery and a full tank of gas.

      Jim kc0lpv

    31. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by innerweb · · Score: 1
      Actually, almost every HAM I know has a power backup with enough juice to run for several days to weeks.

      HAMs are not the general public and typicaly are prepared for the type of situation you mention. I would be more worried about the tower being knocked over and destoyed. But, the guys I know already have contingencies for that situation as well. After all, they are those damned engineers who actually want to know how everything works.

      -InnerWeb

      --
      Freud might say that Intelligent Design is religion's ID.
    32. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by NoseSocks · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I was that guy during 9/11. Except, I wasn't a ham; I just had a blackberry pager. So while both pay phones and cell phones weren't working, I sent out many emails via my pager so that many people knew their loved ones weren't dead. What instance are you referring to where EVERY other system is down?

    33. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by buford_tannen · · Score: 1

      Don't forget Shortwave!

      Some of us listen to HF with Shortwave radios like the Grundig YB 400. The way I understand it, all of shortwave is going to be useless in North America with BPL as well. Argh!

      I'm going to be very angry if BPL kills HF and SW here, because I'll have a $150 doorstop. Those with multi-$1000 ham sets are going to be even madder than I will. The FCC has totally lost it!

      And to think that BPL isn't even going to be a very high speed service either.

      I better end this before I say something to get modded as flamebait.

      --
      Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen
    34. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by pedrop357 · · Score: 1

      Most hams who would do "public service" type stuff in an emergency have battery and/or generator backups anyhow, so the "who cares because they won't have the power in an emergency anyway" argument doesn't work here.

    35. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By the way, it's also killing everything else.
      The broad spectrum from the unshielded powerlines is killing radio, emergency radio, radar. You name it.
      In Germany powerline tests were also made. The first step was to forbid tests near airports.

      Please slashdotters, think about it yourself. Why do you buy a shielded ethernet cable if a normal wire would also do?
      Short hint: they don't do.

      Get to grips and use fibre wire.

    36. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Zondar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If a disaster comes through town and we need the ham operators for communication, the power lines have probably been long dead and no longer causing interference.

      And who will they talk to? The whole point of disaster communications is to talk to the outside world... you know, the ones who still have power?

    37. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FCC announces the Internet will now be delayed TEN seconds to allow for accidental occurances...

    38. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Zondar · · Score: 1

      So the only way amateur radio should be protected is if a scenario can be concocted where it is the ONLY means of communications? /boggle

      Amateur radio isn't the only thing that will be severely impacted by BPL. You need to go read up on what it will do. Lots of links provided in this article's threads.

    39. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we haven't forgotten. Hams have been switching in droves to satellite phones as the networks become more stable and effective, and this will be untouched by the broadband problems mentioned.

      Any disaster large enough to take out the cell phone and satellite phone networks as well (such as continent wide power failures, major meteor strikes, or major solar flares) is of such a cataclysmic order as to ruin typical ham reception as well.

    40. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And what disaster, of a scale requiring us to go back to antiquated ham radio for communication"

      I think you missed the button. It's labelled "flamebait", right under the "informative" button...

    41. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by Tony-A · · Score: 1

      If everything goes like it's supposed to, we don't really need HAMs.
      When things don't go like they're supposed to, HAMs tend to be very reaourceful and useful, even necessary.

    42. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by tazanator · · Score: 1

      okay lets put it on geek personnel level ... It'll shorten your wireless access range!

      --
      I'm told you are what you eat, does that mean I can be you by tomorrow with some A1?
    43. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by tazanator · · Score: 1

      umm well a tornado went thru here last year and the local hams told the national weather service to TURN THE SIRENS ON!! (I heard that on a scanner) the hams spent the next 3 days doing leg work and reporting damage back TO FEMA (fema had no way to get reports back on storm damage but for these guys they had trained (RACES is sponsered by FEMA) also the hospital and triage sites at local schools were in contact by volenter hams. A tornado may be a small area but once you get hit it takes a lot to get it back and until the power company decides to roll trucks, your on your own!

      --
      I'm told you are what you eat, does that mean I can be you by tomorrow with some A1?
    44. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by oldave · · Score: 1

      To be fair, in a localized disaster, such as a tornado, the primary frequencies hams use are in the VHF and UHF ranges, and interference from BPL would be less of a concern.

    45. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by oldave · · Score: 1

      I don't believe there'll be a situation where every other system is down. However, you should remember that FEMA and state/local emergency management agencies, along with the Red Cross, Salvation Army and other relief agencies have existing, in-place agreements with amateur operators to provide emergency communications assistance.

      In the 9/11 disaster, you were providing one type of assistance that hams provide - until your batteries in your blackberry died. The hams continued providing this type, and other types, of comms because they're trained and prepared, with extra batteries, generators and fuel, etc.

      But it's not just about local disasters, either. Where, exactly, do you think those reports of people hurt/dead, damage, etc, come from when a hurricane is approaching the US coast? How do you think the world knows what assistance is needed in earthquake hit areas?

      Then there's the problem of training. If BPL wipes out the HF bands, we have a problem training new people to help out in an emergency.

      I see the argument thrown out that BPL interference won't be a problem if the power lines are down. True. But where do we train new operators? On simulators?

      BPL is a bad idea until the interference issues are dealt with. Period.

    46. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by tiger99 · · Score: 3, Informative
      To add to these excellent comments, I would point out that in certain weather and sunspot conditions a decent radio receiver in the UK will pick up a great confused mass of gibberish, which is the summation of many US and other CB transmissions. Odd words and phrases can usually be discerned, but generally so many signals are being received simultaneously that there is no way of homing in on any one transmission.

      Given lots and lots of powerline comms in the US and elsewhere, the rms sum of (in this case inadvertently) radiated interference is likely to be much greater than a few thousand CB sets all transmitting at once. The point is that HF communications will be disrupted worldwide (not all the world all the time, but some of the world some of the time) by attempts at abusing power lines in this way. Those who are behind these schemes are either ignorant (probably true if they are managers, or software engineers), or are wilfully ignoring the ionosphere.

      Attempts have been made to use this technology in the UK, amateur radio and other things were wiped out locally, and doubtless at some great distance according to the prevailing conditions. I suspect that they measured interference up to some distance (a few miles?) from the source, and forgot all about the ionosphere. These tests also violated UK law about the amount of noise allowed on power lines (the signals are noise to legitimate spectrum users).

      This must be stopped, or a large part of the electromagnetic spectrum will be gone for ever. It is in any case a very inefficient way to provide data communications. any progressive regime would be insisting on running fibre optics to every home or office. In the UK, BT (who had money at the time, and were ready and willing to run a fibre into every home) wanted to do just that some years ago, but the vile Mrs. Thatcher, allegedly a scientist, blocked it because it would give BT a monopoly. True, it would have, for a while, except that it could easily have been handled the same way as BT's copper wires now, via FRIACO, where other providers can get access. Of course the vile old hag had insufficient imagination to forsee that possibility, and in any case where networks and other large physical things are concerned, a monopoly, at least in any locality, is necessarily much more efficient. We could have had fibre 20 years ago (BT led the way in low-loss fibre) but for a singularly incompetent and particularly vile old bag. (Technology moves on, but a fibre good for 100MHz or more would not need replacing for a long time, even if the bits on each end were upgraded from time to time.) The same nasty piece of work also legislated to prevent mast sharing by the mobile networks (anti-competitive....) although our BBC and independent TV networks, in fierce competition, had efficiently shared transmitter sites for decades.

      20 years later, I am still waiting, and have been for 3 years now, for NTL to make my cable TV bi-directional. They have done half the job, providing a digital set top (actually set bottom in most cases) box, with a network socket on the back, and increasing the rental, but they have not done the street cabinet or its links to the outside world yet. That evil old piece of malice has set the UK back about 20 years, almost as much damage as Bill Gates has done.

      The moral of all this is that politicians who profess to have been scientists or other similar professionals were in fact failures in their earlier carreer, understand less than nothing about technology, and are utterly unfit to make any decision about anything of real importance. I fear this issue will be decided by some similarly incompetent piece of nastiness (although in the US the Unelected Warmongering Retard is likely to be demonstrably unelected this time), and teh damage will be done.

    47. Re:For those who RTFA and still don't get it... by stripes · · Score: 1
      Just to play devil's advocate, let's admit that are many more potential users of Broadband over Powerline than there are HAMs

      Yes and no, but I'll start by explaining my prejudices.

      I'm in an area with no DSL, no cable modems, no EV-DO, no OFDM, and no ISDN, and no 802.11 provider can hit my house. In other words I'm screwed for broadband, but broadband over powerlines would probably work for me. I'm not a HAM. A few of my friends are HAMs, but not many. From a hobby point of view my use of broadband is more important to me then their use of radio equipment. That's enough about me.

      HAM is more then just a hobby people enjoy. We had a hurricane last year that knocked out power and phones for a lot of people for a fair bit of time (I only lost power for a day, cell for half a day, and didn't lose my landline at all). For a lot of people HAMs were their only way to let the fire stations know they needed help. HAMs provide a valuable communication backstop in emergency situations.

      Internet surfers (i.e. me!) provide squat in emergency situations.

      So most of the time HAMs are a few people that play with radios, and are outnumbered by people that want to load MP3s and porn faster (and people that want to make money off of them). Part of the time HAMs save lives and valuable property.

      So as much as I want a faster internet connection, I think HAMs are more important. Broadband over powerlines should only be allowed if HAMs still have some frequencies to play with, and if they are different from the existing ones the FCC should have to buy the HAMs new equipment. Even if that means I'm stuck with dialup for years longer.

  3. Broadband over Electrical Wires by irokitt · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ..could bring High Speed Internet to the masses, since everyone has power lines. But what sort of equipment/distance requirements are there?

    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
    1. Re:Broadband over Electrical Wires by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      er... what about hacking?

      Can I just walk into an office somewhere, plug in my laptop (with BB over power adaptor) and wahey, I'm on the network?

      Imagine that - having to put firewalls on all your power sockets. I mean, it's essentially like having RJ45s all over your house/office isn't it.

      BB over power - hacking has never been so easy...

    2. Re:Broadband over Electrical Wires by kfg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      . . .since everyone has power lines.

      Well no, actually, they don't. There are those that generate their own power, and the numbers, while still small, grow steadily.

      That's taking for granted that they have electricity at all, since we're talking about computer usage.

      KFG

    3. Re:Broadband over Electrical Wires by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Distance, repeater every 2000 feet.

      Both above ground and below ground injectors available.

      Some place in Canada is going to try it. I just can't remember the company supplying the HW.

    4. Re:Broadband over Electrical Wires by alwaystheretrading · · Score: 1

      Broadband over electrical lines would do me no good since commercial power is not available here in the little town of Greenhorn, Oregon. I only just got telephone service three years ago, but should have DSL by summer. I generate my own power with a combination of solar and gas generator. Without the Internet, I'd have to live in the cities, but now I can telecommute and live anywhere I want!

    5. Re:Broadband over Electrical Wires by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent question. Given that most power line transformers filter incredibly well at high frequencies due to being big lumps of ferrite or rare earths wrapped in wire, and given that you *need* filtering on power lines to protect against voltage spikes like lightning bolts, and given that if you just blast broadband signals randomly down power lines they will raise the noise floor and kill off other signals, and given that various power cords and cables will create all sorts of fascinating antenna and ground loop issues, you really are going to be lucky to get DSL speed within a single room if you run only one device. If you have to cooperate gracefully among multiple devices, you'll be lucky to run a houseful of light switches and channel changers.

      The useful place for this technology is a rackfull of equipment and a UPS, so you don't have to run extra cables to have one system talk to the other. This is not a small problem!

  4. Fuck off! by Doomrat · · Score: 5, Funny

    FCC: Let's see... we haven't quite ruined everybody's fun yet. Let's fuck with the Internet.

    1. Re:Fuck off! by Darth23 · · Score: 1

      Improving, Doomrat, improving!

      --

      -------- In Soviet Russia, "Soviet Russia" sigs hate Slashdot.

    2. Re:Fuck off! by Doomrat · · Score: 1

      I'm a hostile little gnome.

    3. Re:Fuck off! by Richthofen80 · · Score: 1

      haven't they done enough by taking away our rights to see a bare breast on television?

      mmm.... janet jackson boobie.

      --
      Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
  5. Powerline broadband? by The+One+KEA · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I didn't even though this was still a viable technology. I thought it had been discarded as one of those pieces of innovation that could have been useful but never truly was.

    If the FCC is writing rules for its use, that must mean that it is viable - why write rules for a dead technology?

    --
    SCREW THE ADS! http://adblock.mozdev.org/ Proud user of teh Fox of Fire - Registered Linux User #289618
    1. Re:Powerline broadband? by warren96 · · Score: 1

      The article fails to state that many power line/supply companies have been buring allong their access ways 'lines of fiber'. So plugging into an outlet is a misleading idea the FCC is promoting, to the betterment of those power companies that are drowning since the Enron Catastrophe. Michael Powell helping out his boss' friends.

    2. Re:Powerline broadband? by rusty0101 · · Score: 1
      --
      You never know...
    3. Re:Powerline broadband? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sault Ste. Marie Canada's Electric utility has already announced that they will be offering such a service as soon as regs permit, IIRC. Caught this on CBC1-FM within past 150 hours.

    4. Re:Powerline broadband? by schodackwm · · Score: 1

      10. Because rule-making = job-security?

      9. Because they can?

      8. To make the great unwashed think there's something going on?

      6. Because they're the FCC and they don't know it's dead?

      5. ...

      --
      [this sig has been trunca
  6. Other sources by funny-jack · · Score: 2, Informative

    Other, no-registration-required sources can be found here.

    --
    You probably shouldn't click this.
  7. Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by acoustix · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When will people learn? The ONLY meaning of broadband is analog transmission (frequency division). The term "broadband" has nothing to do with speed.

    --
    "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
  8. The FCC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Are they going to ban boobs on the Internet too?

    1. Re:The FCC? by mandolin · · Score: 1
      Are they going to ban boobs on the Internet too?

      I certainly wouldn't mind seeing ol' Darl banned from the internet for life.

  9. Powerlines, isn't this old news by nicolasf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We always hear about delivering broadband over powerlines, and while it seems to be possible I thought the problem with wide scale adoption is the transformers that regulate the voltage delivered to your house. Personally I think wireless will be a much better solution. Just stick the access points in the existing cell phone towers, or is that too logical?

    1. Re:Powerlines, isn't this old news by seriv · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wireless is a horrible idea for most situations. You can not achieve the throughput with wireless that you can with wired technologies. Thats not bringing into account security either.

    2. Re:Powerlines, isn't this old news by amrust · · Score: 1
      That's just your paranoia talking. ;)

      I guess it depends on the vendor and/or technology solution you decide on (as an ISP). But aside from the inherient problems with 900MHz wireless broadband, I don't see how a 2.4GHz antenna on a house, talking to an AU on the ISP's tower location, can be accessed by someone that isn't authenticated on the ISP's network.

      Maybe it's good that I don't know.

      (waits for the inevitable semi-technical disinformation er, um, example)

      --
      VOTE!
    3. Re:Powerlines, isn't this old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we are talking about areas without cable or DSL, cell phones don't work either (most of the time). Microwave ISP is also available, but the same problems still exist.

      It will probably be cost prohibitive to provide ISP over powerlines. 3 repeaters for every mile? Only 2 or 3 people willing(or able) to pay for service? Why do you think the cable companies have not come into the rural areas?

      Technically, I would love to see this available in my area. But realistically, the population is not dense enough to support it, and if there were enough people, why would I want to live there?

    4. Re:Powerlines, isn't this old news by chill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      (waits for the inevitable semi-technical disinformation er, um, example)

      Okay, I hope you didn't have to wait too long...

      1. The 2.4 GHz band is crowded and going to get more so. What happens when half your neighbors have cordless phones in the 2.4 GHz band? Or worse, half of them have their OWN 802.11 b/g home networks, all competing for frequency and bandwidth with both yours and the ISP?

      Yeah, I know ... 5 GHz, etc. Rinse, repeat.

      Available bandwidth/bitrate on wired connections is many times that of wireless. The only thing wireless has going for it is convenience. Granted, that is a big plus.

      As far as security goes...once you authenticate to the ISP's network, usually via SSL/TLS, everything else is then sent in the clear. Most people are still clueless and don't bother with SSL-encrypted mail.

      In short, wired connections do provide a bit more security for the clueless masses whereas wireless takes that curtain away. That MIGHT be a good thing, making people PAY ATTENTION to security. However, I'm not going to hold my breath.

      -Charles Hill

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    5. Re:Powerlines, isn't this old news by amrust · · Score: 1
      What happens when half your neighbors have cordless phones in the 2.4 GHz band? Or worse, half of them have their OWN 802.11 b/g home networks, all competing for frequency and bandwidth with both yours and the ISP?

      Don't the ISP's that use wireless 2.4 utilize frequency hopping, instead of simple ranges?

      Available bandwidth/bitrate on wired connections is many times that of wireless.

      See, I know that to be true, but I can tell no perceptible difference in my wired T1 at the office, and a wireless 1.54/512 that I use also. What the eye doesn't see, I don't miss. Or whatever. ;)

      Most people are still clueless and don't bother with SSL-encrypted mail.

      Agreed.

      --
      VOTE!
    6. Re:Powerlines, isn't this old news by chill · · Score: 1

      See, I know that to be true, but I can tell no perceptible difference in my wired T1 at the office, and a wireless 1.54/512 that I use also. What the eye doesn't see, I don't miss. Or whatever. ;)

      True. However, I just moved my home network OFF wireless to gigabit wired, simply because I move a lot of large files around locally and the wireless was killing me. I still have a WAP, mainly for the X-Box with the wireless adaptor and when friends come over with laptops.

      My new job has a DS-3 (10 Mbit) at the office. I would notice the wireless degredation. :-)

      -Charles

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    7. Re:Powerlines, isn't this old news by Goody · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Available bandwidth/bitrate on wired connections is many times that of wireless. The only thing wireless has going for it is convenience. Granted, that is a big plus

      That would be applicable on a classic copper twisted pair or fiber, but not so with BPL. The most you get is a raw 80 Mhz (Mb/s) of bandwidth. Once you consider noise issues, modulation, repeaters, usable frequencies, and a bunch of other factors, you're lucky to get 5 Mb/s on a BPL segment. 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz spectrum available to the public right now with less restrictions has over some 300 Mhz of spectrum.

      --
      Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
    8. Re:Powerlines, isn't this old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are more options than 802.11 for wireless. Yes 802.11 is based on a weak encryption. Take for instance Motorola Canopy. Everything that goes over the air is DES or AES encrypted. So a wireless connection is encrypted back to the main router. Is your cable modem, DSL, T1 encrypted? Nope.

  10. Broadband over Sewer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny


    I saw Scottland was considering running broadband using sewers. Now that crap is fast. We're not talking peanuts either, but fiber rich high throughput with full traffic shaping and end to end tapering.

    1. Re:Broadband over Sewer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure they use PPP.

    2. Re:Broadband over Sewer by pedrop357 · · Score: 1

      How do they handle flow control and handshaking with a system like that, and how pure is the stream?

  11. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by irokitt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When I took my first networking class, they told us it was important the WE knew the difference, but that the general masses didn't make the distinction and that trying to correct the error of their ways was futile.

    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
  12. seems like they will hit some problems by seriv · · Score: 1

    First of all, isn't there home networking equipment like this that works horrible? This seems like just a larger scale of that. The type of quality needed to carry multiple frequencies can't be done on any type of wire, powerlines won't be able to cut it. This seems like a really bad idea, mostly the FCC trying to take on a role that it isn't.

    1. Re:seems like they will hit some problems by JackBuckley · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Who says home powerline doesn't work? I use it in a 4500 sqft house with 40 y.o. electrical wiring and it works great everywhere. Even with a signal booster, my previous 11b wireless network only worked in 1/2 the house. Plus, my linksys WiFi crap never worked with anyone else's hardware, but all my powerline stuff plays together quite nicely...

  13. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry, when people use a wrong definition too much, then the wrong definition gets associated with the word in the dictionaries and then becomes an acceptable definition.

    Bitrate and bandwidth have unfortunately become interchangable terms in common culture, even though us geeks know that there's a subtile difference.

  14. How? by sheapshearer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Could someone please explain how a long (several kms) unshielded wire is different than an antenna?

    It would seem to me that transmitting "broadband" data, which will span a wide range of frequencies if it is going to be high-speed (and immune to noise), isn't going to just cause broadband interference?

    Cable modems get away because the cable itself is coaxial and thus shielded.

    Even most telephone wire is buried in the ground...

    But powerlines? I just don't see how it is going to work

    1. Re:How? by Carnildo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Could someone please explain how a long (several kms) unshielded wire is different than an antenna?

      It would seem to me that transmitting "broadband" data, which will span a wide range of frequencies if it is going to be high-speed (and immune to noise), isn't going to just cause broadband interference?

      Cable modems get away because the cable itself is coaxial and thus shielded.

      Even most telephone wire is buried in the ground...

      But powerlines? I just don't see how it is going to work


      It isn't. BPL will wipe out ham radio, many emergency services, and some of the military frequencies.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Telephone lines, and many power lines, are twisted pair. This helps reduce the radiation output and coupling with other signals due to the long antenna. Also, power lines put efficient but big old honkig transformers on the line quite frequently to decouple the lines from their neighborhoods every so often, allowing a failure or mistake or lightning bolt in one area to not take out the entire power line all the way back to the power station.

      Lightning bolts are a very big deal for power companies....

  15. so is this good or bad? by fist_187 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    am i the only one who cant tell if this is a win or a loss for consumers? please enlighten me!

    --
    Somewhere on this page I have hidden my signature.
    1. Re:so is this good or bad? by zygote · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can't tell, but when I read just the headline at NYT.com

      "F.C.C. Begins Rewriting Rules on Delivery of the Internet"

      my gut reaction was "Oh, crap, this is going to be bad."
      How many others had a similar thought?
      It is a bit depressing that Mike Powell's FCC engenders that kind of response.

      --
      the future is here, it is just not evenly distributed - w. gibson
    2. Re:so is this good or bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Government wants to tell you how to do things. You really have to ask whether this is good or bad?

    3. Re:so is this good or bad? by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      Consumers rolled over and went back to bed. These are two status-quo maintaining rulings. Pulver/FWD can keep doing what they're doing, and powerline broadband people don't have to wake up from their dreams.

    4. Re:so is this good or bad? by smokin_juan · · Score: 1

      'It is a bit depressing that Mike Powell's FCC engenders that kind of response.'

      Replace Mike Powell's FCC with US government and you might be onto something.

  16. A question for all the law-people on /. by centralizati0n · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Heres my question for all the law-people on /. - if the FCC decides to regulate VoIP, what happens if I start my own personal VoIP network? Must I be regulated too?

    1. Re:A question for all the law-people on /. by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you do VoIP around your own house, you're using a PBX which the FCC doesn't care about.

      If you're doing person-to-person and computer-to-computer VoIP with people you've already met some other way to avoid phone calls, you're okay.

      If you're doing VoIP that's connecting to the PTSN somehow in place of the "last mile", the FCC wants to have a talk with you.

    2. Re:A question for all the law-people on /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interstate commerce. One of the ONLY things the federal government was intended to regulate within the states. So now everything is goods in transit. Even you, Bunkie.

  17. Where's the open-source project? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

    In a second set of proceedings, commissioners began considering what rules ought to apply to companies offering Internet space and software to enable computer users to send and receive telephone calls.

    So where is the open source project for this one?

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  18. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by SkewlD00d · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yet another case of neophyte biz-marketeers turning geek-jargon into bizwords. "Broadband" is only the width of the channel, "throughput" is more important. Also, "baud" is not necessarily a "bit" ("baud" is one packet of signal waveforms in linear combinations of FSK/PSK/ASK etc in a unit-time), etc. etc.

    --
    The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
  19. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by cdrudge · · Score: 2, Insightful
    And no where in the article did they associate speed with broadband. The only thing close was
    "Officials said the new rules, which are to be completed in the coming months, would enable utilities to offer an alternative to the cable and phone companies and provide an enormous possible benefit to rural communities that are served by the power grid but not by broadband providers."
    Both cable and phone companies offer broad band signals, signals that operate over a broad range of frequencies.

    And according to this "definition", 'broadband' can be equated to a speed.
  20. 1999 called, they want their PR back. by sulli · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Remember when every little press release advertised that something "would profoundly alter both the way the Internet is delivered and used in homes and businesses?"

    And remember what happened to these bright new ideas? (well, most of them?) Oh yeah, jack.

    So I wouldn't give much credibility to these either. VoIP and power-line internet aren't exactly front page news.

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
    1. Re:1999 called, they want their PR back. by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a slow tech news day. The NY Times wrote a piece with tons of filler content and then /. ended up running it beause it needs filler content too.

  21. Query... by B2K3 · · Score: 3, Funny

    If our Internet is not delivered within thirty minutes, do we get it for free?

  22. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
    When will people learn? The ONLY meaning of broadband is analog transmission (frequency division). The term "broadband" has nothing to do with speed.

    Yeah, and "baud" doesn't mean "bps". Nor does "motor" mean "internal combustion engine". Furthermore, "screw" and "bolt" are not synonymous. Whaddya gonna do? The common man's vernacular must be accepted sometimes.

    --
    If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  23. rewriting rules on the discovery of the internet by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 2, Funny

    So I read the headline and thought "So is the FCC putting out a declaration that GW Bush 'discovered' the internet?"
    What with it being an election year and all...

  24. Best part was this snippet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Mr. Copps also criticized the majority of the commission for rejecting a request by law enforcement agencies that the F.C.C. first work out the legal and technical problems in monitoring phone calls over the Internet before granting Pulver's application or considering new rules for the Internet-based phone services.

  25. Broadband + power line = blackout? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering we have a lot more computer crashes than power grid failure, it sounds like the plan is going to open a big security hole that allows someone to knockout a power grid by using computer virus. Considering the result of 50 million getting blackout without electrical wire broadband, it sounds like we are going to have massive blackout EVERYDAY.

    Thanks to the infinite (lack of) wisdom of FCC, we are going to have yet another blackout coming soon.

  26. wtf by segment · · Score: 4, Funny

    I thought broad band was a group of chicks playing some tunes...

  27. And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What does the FCC have in its specs about spam?

    "Bad boy, don't do that again."

    Sounds like the spec will do wonders.

  28. FCC Workshops by ZPO · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Broadband over power line (BPL)

    Hmm where does this fall on the good idea scale? They are talking about running RF signals over miles of unshielded cable. NTIA filed comments strongly opposing it. This horse is dead before the starting gate even opens.

    BPL is being touted as bringing broadband internet to rural areas not served by DSL or cable modem. However, if you read the fine print you'll find that the signal can be pushed less distance then either (DSL/cable) technology. This means infrastructure overbuild costs will prevent it being deployed in anything but densely populated areas. The whole rural service thing is just a smoke screen.

    VOIP Regulation

    Its not broken so why does the FCC need to "fix" it? I can't find too many examples of government utility regulation actually improving things. The CALEA (Communications Assistance to Law Enforement Act) points are moot as a wiretap order would permit them to tap the IP service just as easily as the phone line. The main issue is that the telcos see that "consumers" will now become their own providers and they (telcos) will be pushed to irrelavancy in the long term. Change and adaptation come slower to telcos than it does the music industry.

    With any luck the FCC will deliver the coup-de-grace to BPL and keeps its fingers out of VoIP other than to declare IP end-to-end calls as outside the scope of regulation and IP to PSTN as only in regulatory scope at the point of interconnection to the PSTN.

  29. thy lamp is thine firewall? by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Funny

    So this sounds good..
    "Consumers will be able to plug their modems directly into the wall sockets just as they do with any garden variety appliance"

    ohhh yeah! Hackers thine evil bits shall meet the wrath of my toaster oven!!

    Will my floor lamp blink when my imClone stocks fall to $60 a share??

    Will I have to worry about a backdoor being installed covertly on my fridge and making my milk curdle?

    Will my George Foreman Grill become an open spam relay peddling viagra to all the braun shaver users worldwide?

    MY GOD MAN, HAVE WE NOT LEARNED ANYTHING FROM MICROSOFT PRODUCTS????? ...ohhh that's right... the spammers ARE the advertising companies looking for a new place to spam in the best interests of the consumer.

    So just how well should I trust the "secured" network interface of my BlendOmatic-2006XS 5-in-1 blender-oven?

    1. Re:thy lamp is thine firewall? by khallow · · Score: 1
      Will my George Foreman Grill become an open spam relay peddling viagra to all the braun shaver users worldwide?

      Thanks a lot. And I was going to try to sleep this weekend. What future horrors must we face?!

  30. FEMA isn't a fan, and neither are HAM operators by Back+in+Brown · · Score: 5, Informative

    As previously covered at Slashdot here... The Federal Emergency Management Agency submitted comments to the FCC stating their desire to not see BPL go into widespread implementation. Apparently it interferes with high frequency radio transmissions which are used by FEMA and others (think HAM radio operators). You can see FEMA's comments and a FAQ on the objections (slanted towards the HAM radio operators) here Forgot to add that in these post-9/11 times, it will be interesting to see who wins, Dept. of Homeland Security and their paranoia over infrastructure or the free-market wheelers and dealers at the FCC who think regulation is for the birds.

    1. Re:FEMA isn't a fan, and neither are HAM operators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No big deal, until it interferes with MY top-20.

    2. Re:FEMA isn't a fan, and neither are HAM operators by ZPO · · Score: 1

      Not to mention DoD, NTIA, and a whole lot more alphabet soup....

  31. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by mlyle · · Score: 2, Informative

    "BAUD" is the measurement of symbols per second.

    16 BAUD of 8 level FSK would be 48 bits/second. (16 symbols per second, 3 bits per symbol).

  32. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    us and we have unfortunately become interchanged in common culture even though most people think they know the difference and don't.

    Reread the sentence after removing the word "geeks":

    ...even though us know there's a...
    vs
    ...even though we know there's a...

    notice how much nicer that is?

    there are geeks and there are educated geeks.

  33. Did you ever call a ship "docked"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    Well, you were almost certainly wrong. In nautical terms, the only time a ship is "docked" is when it's in a drydock.

    That thing that sticks out into the water that the ship is tied up or moored to is a pier or maybe a wharf. It ain't a dock.

    Should those of us familiar with nautical terminology look down on those that aren't? That's what you're doing here. The meaning of the term "broadband" when applied in the vernacular sense to "internet service" is clear even if the usage not correct in the technical sense. Just like saying a ship is "docked" is perfectly clear in the landlubber's environment, but would get you laughed off the bridge in a nautical environment.

    1. Re:Did you ever call a ship "docked"? by cdrudge · · Score: 1
      Well, you were almost certainly wrong. In nautical terms, the only time a ship is "docked" is when it's in a drydock.
      In nautical terms, maybe. In traditional conversation, my friends Merriam and Webster say that "dock(ed)" is correct.
  34. FCC kills BPL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    yea. Any service that has to accept interference, and shut down if it causes harmful interference is going to be a big money pit for ANY investor. Now is the time for anybody who's electric utility is thinking about BPL to tell them to give a big thumbs down to this worthless thechnology!!!

    http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatc h/ DOC-243879A1.pdf

  35. Ooops, forgot at least one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    That thing that sticks out into the water that the ship is tied up or moored to is a pier or maybe a wharf.

    Or it's a quay.

    It still ain't a dock!

  36. Re:rewriting rules on the discovery of the interne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well...I guess if Al Gore "created" it then GW could have "discovered" it. Unless your tinfoil hat is off and you believe the supreme court gave that to him too.

  37. Re:Maybe why Whitehouse.com for sale? by LostCluster · · Score: 1

    Seriously, if we dismiss the kid's-about-to-go-to-kindergarden story as pure cover, maybe he is seeing the begining of the end for the business he's in. Porn on the Internet okay, but porn putting itself where kids are likely to stumble into it not is okay and somebody's about to try to do something about it now.

  38. Implications of this Decision by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Ok so let me hypothesize and extrapolate here for a moment.

    FCC rules that "Pure VoIP that NEVER connects to the PSTN is not subject to 'the telecommunications regulations'. "

    One interesting implication of this ruling is that suddenly there's a significant benefit to VoIP providers to directly and transparently interconnect/interoperate their services.

    Instead of
    • Is it on My Network?
    • Else dump it to the PSTN
    style services, we could now see VoIP evolving to operate more like :
    • Is it on My Network?
    • Is it on the network of any of the VoIP services I 'peer' directly with?
    • Else dump it to the PSTN
    The industry already has (mostly?) functional standardised interfaces and interoperation between VoIP and PSTN, this ruling will strongly encourage true interoperability amongst VoIP providers, and transparent interoperability generally leads to competition on the basis of quality and services rather than purely on technology and customer-lock-ins.

    Now they just need to require that where the VoIP service interfaces with the PSTN they must fully support E911 and phone-number-mobility (ie like cell providers have recently been required) then you'd have a very fair and competitive environment encouraging strong growth in the both the Internet Service and Telecommunications industries.

    I mean seriously! In what way is a VoIP call that connects to a PSTN/legacy telecoms phone different to one from a Mobile Phone to a PSTN number? The only real diference is the medium of transmission (irrespective of the direction-of-calling, even).

    The "telecommunications regulations" really apply to the infrastructure. Many of the regulations specifically relate to "how can we ensure the infrastructure reaches ALL parts of the community in a fair and reasonable manner". If you *never* use that infrastructure, then many those regulations just plain make no sense, would imply double-billing (or even triple-billing) of fees or would be unreasonably burdensome.

    For example - VoIP over an ADSL customer.
    • telecoms fees apply to the physical line for the local phone company
    • internet service fees aply to the ADSL/Internet connection via the ISP
    • VoIP - so should the telecoms fees apply again?
    Now if that VoIP call connected across to the PSTN, then fees apply (ie at the point of connecting to the PSTN, telecoms fees apply to the connecting line - like always; any per-call telecoms fees would also apply, naturally).
    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  39. Forget NYT and use CNN by djupedal · · Score: 2, Informative

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Regulators agreed Thursday to set rules for telephone calls made online, and for technology to allow computer users to reach the Internet through a household electric outlet.

    The Federal Communications Commission said it would decide how to regulate calls made via high-speed Internet connections, which bypass at least part of the conventional phone network.

    Among the issues to be discussed is whether such calls should be subject to the same fees as regular telephone service, such for 911 emergency services or bringing telephone service to poor and rural areas, schools and libraries. Also to be decided is whether these new services need to pay fees to local telephone companies to complete calls to conventional phones.

    Separately, the FCC said it would later develop rules concerning law enforcement, such as making sure that the technology that allows Internet calls also allows investigators to tap and trace them.

    The commission also voted to develop rules that would allow the power lines that bring electricity to homes and businesses to also deliver high-speed Internet connections.

    Once a utility or a company it contracts with installs the necessary equipment, a computer user would only have to plug the machine into a special modem that plugs into a conventional electric outlet, according to Jay Birnbaum, vice president of Current Technologies, a company now testing such connections in the Washington suburbs.

    Even as it develops rules governing Internet phone calls, the commission decided that one such service, Free World Dialup, was not subject to the same regulations as regular phones. Internet users can join Free World Dialup at no cost and make calls to each other without using the conventional phones. They use special numbers to route the calls rather than 10-digit phone numbers.

  40. Uh... by soft_guy · · Score: 1

    I've heard it before. When I first heard about DSL, I had dial up and envied my friend who had the money for an ISDN line in his house. The hype was the DSL worked with POTS and since everyone has POTS, then everyone could have DSL.

    Not true by half.

    --
    Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
  41. Radiation by Loconut1389 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Aside from the sheer disturbance to the ham community and worldwide communications, as well as possibly satellite (and interplanetary someday?) communications, I dont like the idea of having gobs of RF coming from my power sockets. 60 cycle hum is bad enough, we're going to have to filter every audio component even more, as well as figure out how to rf protect our devices. some old and new stuff just wasnt designed to take rf directly into its components. Plus, electrocution now comes with fun burns, not to mention increased headaches for those of us who are RF sensitive to begin with. FCC should leave well enough alone.

    1. Re:Radiation by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      every house will have a filter between it and the rest of the lines anyways, otherwise a "noisy" electric motor on your neighbors Old refridgerator would wipe out the signal for miles

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  42. POTS by chiph · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If I were in the (highly regulated) business of selling local dial-tone, I would set up a subsidiary that just did TCP/IP networking over all the dark fiber in the US, and then sell VOIP over it. My marketing point would be "higher-quality connections with fewer drop-outs". A friend has Vonage, and while it works great off-peak hours, during lunch hours (when everyone at work is surfing instead of working), or if a big news story breaks, you can't understand him.

    Chip H.

  43. Not just Ham radio... by HPNpilot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All HF nets will be wiped out. CAP, MARS, and all other emergency nets will be gone. The FCC has totally and completely caved in to money interests. Whatever happened to the concept that the airwaves are "public?" The FCC just privatized the entire HF spectrum! And they are giving it away for free!

    1. Re:Not just Ham radio... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey butt clown- the airwaves ARE public. There are a hell of a lot more people that will use BPL than there are sweaty geeks that want to play with HAM radio, and BPL is more useful anyway. So quit whining- it makes you sound retarded.

    2. Re:Not just Ham radio... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so if they "caved into money interests", why are they giving it away for free?

    3. Re:Not just Ham radio... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey dumbass... sure will be good when there are no emergency services either. America just wants to cut off all forms of communication except for the "official" ones, and make these accessible to "official" users only.

      It's all part of the plan the paranoids warned us about but we never listened to.

    4. Re:Not just Ham radio... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BPL is actually inferior technology that won't be adopted en masse. All it will serve to do is create interference that will justify ending shortwave broadcasts to north america, as well as the ham and emergency stuff already mentioned.

    5. Re:Not just Ham radio... by buford_tannen · · Score: 1

      SHORTWAVE!

      I want my BBC, dammit!

      --
      Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen
  44. Why BPL is needed by panaceaa · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is great news! The FCC is looking into the future and seeing what great quality of life leaps will happen with Broadband-over-PowerLine. After 10 years of consumer Internet access, the next frontier for Internet connectivity is clearly the kitchen. There are unfathomable benefits to having toasters, blenders, and microwave ovens access the Internet. I see BPL as the way to provide that interconnectivity, without the downsides of other options:

    1) Giving kitchen appliances wireless cards: Lots of people have tried hacking their toasters to support existing 802.11b standards, but these hacks are overly expensive and don't work on a large scale.

    2) Redesigning and remodeling kitchens to have ethernet jacks: This will happen over time, but in the short run it's too expensive to retrofit existing homes. In addition, having to run a wire from a toaster to both a power and ethernet jack adds too much clutter to countertops.

    BPL has none of these detractions of the above options. Toasters and microwaves can be connected to the Internet as easily as they're plugged in to a power jack, and no kitchen remodelling is necessary. Clearly ham radio and emergency service disruption is a small price to pay for the overwhelming benefits of kitchen appliance interconnectivity.

    I applaud the FCC's forward thinking on in this area.

  45. I'm still waiting on... by JurgenThor · · Score: 0

    PizzaOIP.

    --
    GENERAL PUBLIC SIGNATURE (GPS) Any replies (derivatives) of this post must also use the GPS
  46. Re: How can people be so stupid? by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 1

    And think about how dumb you are because if you can't reach your family because of a disaster, there won't be any power lines active anyway and your precious ham radio will still work.

    Jesus H. Christ!
    How stupid can people be around here?
    As has been mentioned elsewhere, there won't be any ham radio operators, because nobody is going to go through the time and expense if the only time they can use it is during a disaster.
    No ham radio operators ==> no ham radio.
    Why is that so difficult for you morons to understand?

    --
    Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
  47. Crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The preceding was supposed to be posted anonymously.
    Please ignore the byline.

  48. The FCC Once Again Doesn't Get It by Goody · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just like with the mass media ownership rule changes in which the FCC ignored the facts and the public, clueless Powell did the same with BPL.

    The FCC cited adaptive technolgies as being able to mitigate interference. The truth is, adaptive technologies can't protect receive only stations because they don't transmit and can't assert their need for a clear frequency. It's likely that adaptive technologies will also be unable to recognize lower powered transmit stations.

    It's rather ironic the FCC met with a BPL equipment vendor in late January to discuss adaptive technology.

    One of the Commisioners stated that interference concerns were unproven. There has been models proving the interference potential and field measurements showing interference filed with the FCC. There's been no proof that adaptive technologies in BPL will mitigate interference.

    So the FCC doesn't stop BPL due to proven interference issues, and justifies continued deployment on a technology that hasn't been proven to work in the field or using common sense engineering. They essentially ignored 5000 comments filed against BPL and showcased unproven "interference mitigation" technology hyped by an equipment vendor.

    It's time that the boobs at the FCC are exposed, not at the Superbowl.

    --
    Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
    1. Re:The FCC Once Again Doesn't Get It by khallow · · Score: 1

      I don't see the problem. If broadband over power lines can't be done practically, then the companies implementing the service won't get and keep the customers.

  49. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by Casca · · Score: 1

    I absolutely agree. Where I work we have a CISCO access server with T1s used for dialup access, it replaced some M$ RAS server about 5 years ago. I havn't been able to get one person to stop calling it a RAS server. Hell, they even call the RADIUS server a RAS server for that matter...

    --
    Casca
  50. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by LostCluster · · Score: 1

    I've found it helpful to circulate a tech-term glossary to the non-techies when a major system swap that affects them happens. It really saves time in support calls when they use the right term to describe the service that's not functioning right.

  51. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The FCC has defined broadband as:

    The capability of supporting, in both the provider-to-consumer (downstream) and the consumer-to-provider (upstream) directions, a speed (in technical terms, bandwidth) in excess of 200 kilobits per second (kbps) in the last mile.

    This is a legal definition.

  52. Re:Broadband does NOT mean high speed!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's amusing that someone who gets his/her panties in a wad about people using the proper names for things uses "M$" in place of Microsoft.

    Hypocrite.

  53. Flag Icon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why does the US flag icon only have 12 stripes?

  54. folly by Wansu · · Score: 1



    Powell is signing off on a huge hash generator. Oh yeah, it's certified not to interfere with lord knows what. Looks like a grid of long wire antennae to me.

    --
    Wansu, th' chinese sailor
  55. Re: How can people be so stupid? by buford_tannen · · Score: 1

    I understand your feelings completely.

    I am no HAM, but I own a Grundig YB 400 and use it to listen to world radio broadcasts as well as ham nets and hf aero from time to time. I worry that this radio will be made worthless by BPL and that I won't have anything worth listening to on the radio anymore.

    I can only imagine the rage that those who have invested $1000+ into a Ham rig are feeling.

    --
    Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen
  56. Delivered? by sunset · · Score: 1

    Pizza is delivered. Newspapers are delivered. I suppose TV programs are delivered. But the Internet is... connected.

  57. The internet will fight back by Wellmont · · Score: 1

    What the FCC sees is a market base....or more correctly the bureaucratic ass holes in charge of communication and entertainment companies see a market base. What they don't understand is that their saturation has already happened. The average consumer is already bogged down with monthly payments on, cable, electricity, phone, cell-phone, internet, and water. The FCC's bureaucratic enforcers are going to target your 29 - 50 dollar phone and electricity bills and divide them into about 4 more and raise the price. This can only be seen as a hinderence, nothing good can come of regulation of the internet any further. People need to educate themselves rather then the FCC making Electricity, Phone, and Internet more simple and stagnent to the end user. If they end up curtailing our already limited ammount of freedom and mobility on the internet someone or rather all of us are going to get mad and just start using BBS's again, and go back to more antiquated ways. Personally i would rather be disconnected from the internet, and just write correspondance to friends, than see it turn into something like Cell Phones or Cable service.

  58. The Amateur Radio Relay League sez... by 4ginandtonics · · Score: 2, Informative

    SB QST @ ARL $ARLB005
    ARLB005 FCC okays BPL proposal

    ZCZC AG05
    QST de W1AW
    ARRL Bulletin 5 ARLB005
    From ARRL Headquarters
    Newington CT February 12, 2004
    To all radio amateurs

    SB QST ARL ARLB005
    ARLB005 FCC okays BPL proposal

    The FCC has unanimously approved a Notice of Proposed Rule Making
    (NPRM) to deploy Broadband over Power Line (BPL). The NPRM is the
    next step in the BPL proceeding, which began last April with a
    Notice of Inquiry that attracted more than 5100 comments--many from
    the amateur community. The FCC did not propose any changes in Part
    15 rules governing unlicensed devices, but said it would require BPL
    providers to apply ''adaptive'' interference mitigation techniques
    to their systems. An ARRL delegation that included President Jim
    Haynie, W5JBP, attended the FCC open meeting in Washington, and
    later expressed disappointment in the FCC action.

    ''The Commission clearly recognized that the existing Part 15
    emission limits are inadequate to stop interference, but it's
    placing the burden of interference mitigation on the licensed user
    that's supposed to be protected,'' said ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ.

    Sumner said that if the FCC really believed current Part 15 emission
    limits were sufficient, it would not have had to require that BPL
    providers institute interference mitigation systems. The FCC has not
    yet released the actual NPRM, and a presentation by the FCC's Office
    of Engineering and Technology (OET) revealed only its broad
    outlines. Sumner said the League would not take a formal position
    until it reviews the full NPRM.

    Anh Wride of the OET staff spelled out the scope of the NPRM, which
    only addresses so-called ''access BPL''--the type that would apply
    radio frequency energy to exterior overhead and underground low and
    medium-voltage power lines to distribute broadband and Internet
    service. She said the OET staff believes that interference concerns
    ''can be adequately addressed.'' Wride said the FCC's BPL NPRM:

    * Applies existing Part 15 emission limits for unlicensed
    carrier-current systems to BPL systems. Part 15 rules now require
    that BPL systems eliminate any harmful interference that may occur
    ''and must cease operation if they cannot,'' she noted.

    * Requires BPL systems to employ ''adaptive interference-mitigation
    techniques, including the capabilities to shut down a specific
    device, to reduce power levels on a dynamic or remote-control basis
    and to include or exclude specific operating frequencies or bands.''

    * Subjects BPL providers to notification requirements that would
    establish a public database to include such information as the
    location of BPL devices, modulation type and operating frequencies.

    * Proposes guidelines to provide for consistent and repeatable
    measurement of the RF emissions from BPL and other carrier-current
    systems.

    Mirroring his colleagues' enthusiasm, FCC Chairman Michael Powell
    called BPL ''tremendously exciting.'' While conceding that BPL has
    ''a long way to go,'' the chairman said it could be ''the great
    broadband hope for a good part of rural America.'' Powell also said
    the FCC's OET has worked very hard to try to ''get their hands
    around'' the issue of interference and that the FCC would continue
    its vigilance in that area.

    The FCC is expected to issue the complete Notice of Proposed Rule
    Making within a few days and will invite comments on it sometime
    after its publication.

    Additional information about BPL and Amateur Radio is on the ARRL
    Web site, www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/.
    NNNN /EX

  59. How is the FCC going to bully Non-Americans? by I-R-Baboon · · Score: 1

    If VoIP calls are charged, which use the internet which is *NOT* American property or the American Government's to control and tax, how would this effect people in other countries calling into the US using VoIP to a POTS number? How about cell phones, subject to same consequences as VoIP since phone companies have a hand in them?

    What about VoIP calls outside the American Reich's territory?

    What if my VoIP packets bounce outside of what the FCC considers America's Internet?

    Since VoIP packets are delivered and handled similar to email, will this set the foundation for taxed email? What other internet services would this open up to taxing? What are the alternatives to get away from the greedy power hungry hand of the American government?

    Isn't this also forcing people to pay a tax for something they are not responsible for, I mean if you use POTS don't you already pay some of these taxes? So the call receiver pays taxes on the lines for regulation and maintenance and now VoIP callers will have to pay all those same fees and taxes just to call? The Right to Call on Already Taxed Lines Tax...fuck that. If I pay the FCC already, such as DSL, would I be taxed AGAIN for lines & services I'm already paying on?

    Using a global resource and having the FCC try to dip their fingers in a global pie is going to get interesting. Who to tax when and for how much while proving you are stealing...I mean taxing...the correct target. How can they justify putting American taxes on a global resource, regardless of where the call is routed and what taxes on those resources they have already collected on? Are we getting ready to define "Internet Borders" now? Are they going to ignore the BPL RF pollution for a buck? (RF implications of all that unshielded cable (egress/ingress) and additional noise from the high voltage electricity, I can't imagine great service to begin with. Even in the sub-band from 5-42MHz which is the most reliable for longest distances how many channels are actually available to reserve ~39M/channel for a send and return. What taxes already paid on this service?)

    As an American I can only say, Fuckin FCC.

    --
    -1 Overrated (Too many big words for me to comprehend)
  60. HAM stands in the way of progress by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

    >A lot more people will benefit from gaining broadband than will be hurt by losing HAM frequencies.

    Yep, with broadband prices and slow adoption this is a great avenue that will re-start competition, especially when local monopoly telecoms decide not to roll out DSL because they didn't get the proper back-room deal. Here in Illinois, many of the wealthier suburbs (and other locales) are only now getting DSL because SBC wanted both local and long distance rights. Well, SBC got it recently (or is on the fast track to do so) and in the meantime the cable people took this as a sign to raise their prices to a ridiculous amount.

    The HAM savior argument is pretty flawed. Not only will increased broadband be a social change as it lets more people onto the information revolution, the very same infrastructure can be used to diagnose and detect disasters. Even in worst case scenarios HAM equipment (which should leave the hands of the hobbyist and goto the hands of trained professionals at the firestation) will actually work if the powerlines are down.

    Its really shameless to be advocating HAMs just because it *might* have an emergency role as a defense because people don't want their pretty radio toys taken away from them. Funny how there's a consensus regarding RIAA et al changing their behavior and catching up with the times, but when it comes to HAM radio, its best to stay the course. The 'horseless carriage' hypocrisy strikes again.

    The Canadians are doing BPL mixed with wireless RIGHT NOW. I guess in the end, if your emergency services truly end with volunteers with radios its high time to re-assess your emergency systems.

  61. Porn for the Galaxy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All right!

    The FCC has just approved transmission of Porn over a large grid array antenna!

    Future bases on the Moon and Mars should have no problems receiving there daily quota of Porn from now on.

    Lets hear it for Mr. Powell for such forward thinking.

  62. Already in use in other countries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't the power-line solution already in use in Canada and other places?

  63. GNU Radio Gets Shoved Into High Gear... by resinman · · Score: 1

    I predict the FCC (Federal Corrupt Commission) will violently shove GNU Radio development into high gear by trying to regulate our freedom to communicate.

    http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuradio/gnuradio.html

  64. Now I get it by khallow · · Score: 1

    Silly me. We're transmitting signals over lots of bare copper wire (ie, a giant antenna size the size of a house or neighborhood). If the BPL vendors can't deliver on adaptive technologies, interference promises, etc., then that puts them in a bad spot. But one they could squeeze out of with the appropriate political deals.

  65. Ham radio IS progress! by pyser · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If it wasn't for the existence of amateur radio and the perseverance of hams through the years, we would not even know about the usefulness of HF frequencies (3-30 MHz). In the early days of radio, wavelengths of shorter than 200 meters (1500 kHz) were considered useless, but hams discovered that they can be used for worldwide communication with modest power and antennas. Eventually, government, broadcasting and commercial users moved in, but it was the hams who blazed the trail. And incidentally, HF radio plays an important role in international broadcasting, aircract communications, military and homeland security, all of whom have gone on record opposing broadband data on power lines - so it's not just hams who would lose.

    Hams have also been on the forefront of other technologies, such as single sideband, FM, television, software-defined radios, and digital transmission, to name a few. To quote the IARU:


    Radio amateurs are the leading developers of new digital techniques for high-frequency (HF) data and text communication. For example, PacTOR combines the strengths of packet radio and the mode known commercially as SITOR to offer reliable and essentially error-free data communication. Disaster relief agencies have adopted it for use from remote locations where no telecommunications infrastructure is available.


    BPL (Broadband over power lines, or PLC as it's known elsewhere in the world) is nothing more than a spectrum grab by the big utilities who want to use unlicensed, uncoordinated systems to cash in on the Internet craze, without considering the importance of the incumbent duly-licensed users of those frequencies. It's akin to buying a ticket to attend the theater, and having the dialogue drowned out by the person sitting next to you talking loudly. You wouldn't let anyone who wants one buy a big ugly army vehicle and drive around intimidating other drivers as though he or she owns the road, would you? Oh, wait...

    And I'll say it again - "ham" is not an abbreviation or acronym, so don't capitalize it!

  66. "provider" and "consumer" ? by HughsOnFirst · · Score: 1

    Never mind the "broadband" definition, ( spark gap transmitter, that would be a pretty broad band right ? ) this "provider" and "consumer" stuff has me worried.