Softwar : An Intimate Portrait of Larry Ellison

prostoalex writes "In the high-tech industry few people achieve such glamour and general recognition as Larry Ellison, the chief executive officer of Oracle Corp. Ellison is known for provocative interviews, for being called the industry's 'other billionaire,' for being brutal to the competitors while staying within ethical limits, and for genuine opposition to a Redmond-based software company called Microsoft." Read on for the rest of Alex's review. Softwar : An Intimate Portrait of Larry Ellison and Oracle author Matthew Symonds, Larry Ellison pages 528 publisher Simon & Schuster rating 7/10 reviewer Alex Moskalyuk ISBN 074322504X summary Insight of Larry Ellison and his corporate identity known as Oracle Corp.

Matthew Symonds took a leave of absence from The Economist in March 2000 to follow Ellison in his daily routines, his management meetings, his sales calls and his regattas. But he is not the only author of the book. After the manuscript was ready by Symonds' standards, Larry Ellison took over the footnotes. Both co-authors agreed not to change each other's text, but Ellison felt he had to clarify certain points about his life, career, and vision. Softwar is somewhere in the middle between biography and autobiography -- the life of Larry Ellison is retold by another author, although the book is uniquely personal with Ellison's remarks constantly adding to the personal touch of the book. Statements like "It was a big mistake, and it was my mistake. I didn't think that Microsoft Windows would crush IBM OS/2 and all the other desktop systems -- but it did" allow Ellison to showcase his personal viewpoint in a straightforward and succinct manner.

Unlike many biographies, Softwar doesn't start with Ellison's poverty-ridden childhood in a poor Russian-immigrant family, where he was an adopted kid. That story comes much later, but from the Chapter 1 we're involved in Oracle's selling process, with Ellison talking to the Japanese executives, Ellison giving a keynote speech, Ellison talking to his sales reps - it's all about Ellison, and it's all about selling. Rarely in the book will you see a description of the actual coding process or any description of software development practices at Oracle, which by revenue ranks second among the global software corporations. It's all about sales calls, support calls, commissions, discounts and sales numbers in the million and billion dollar range - Ellison is as concentrated on the financial revenues as a CEO could possibly be.

A supporter of open standards, Ellison does not like the cacophony of enterprise-scale products offered to the companies. "If Detroit ran like Silicon Valley, nobody would sell cars -- just parts", he proclaims. "Customers would have to figure out which were the best parts -- a Honda engine, a Ford transmission, a BMW chassis, GM electrical system -- and buy them and try to assemble them into a working car. Good luck. I know it sounds crazy, but that's how companies put together business systems today".

Since Symonds followed Ellison everywhere he went, the readers get to see Ellison's lifestyle, observe his Japanese gardens in Atherton, meet with Oracle vice-presidents and sales people, follow him in regattas, while listening to a heavy dose of why Oracle E-Business Suite is going to revolutionize many businesses around the country.

The author covers Ray Lane's departure from Oracle in great detail, while Ellison is profuse with comments on why Lane needed to be let go. Market moves of Oracle's main competitors -- Siebel, SAP and PeopleSoft -- are also followed closely, with obligatory disparaging remarks coming from Ellison about what's wrong with each competitor's business. Sometimes I felt the book got too much into describing Oracle politics, like departmental and subdivisional re-organizations with pointers on who was managing which operation, but perhaps the book would lose detail without it. If you have been employed at Oracle, or know some of the people personally, perhaps it's interesting; most of the time the descriptions of policy changes in sales force compensation is perhaps too mundane for a biographical book.

For instance, on page 139 Symonds describes Lane's pending departure to become the CEO of Novell. Symonds presents Lane's point of view:

"He said he'd talked to the board and he thought $2.5 million in options was the right number. You deserve it. I thought he'd gone way overboard, so of course I stayed. I didn't find out until I left Oracle that the board was pissed off about this. No one ever told me, and I certainly wasn't holding Oracle up for money."

Lane's quote is followed by an asterisk with a footnote from Ellison: "Not a holdup? He said he was going to Novell because of the money. I offered him more money to stay. It was a classic holdup. He stayed."

This book being a recent publication, it covers a lot of Oracle products in detail, supplemented by Ellison's viewpoints on how this or that product is going to change a certain business or industry. While Oracle is hardly a household name outside the IT field, the author makes a great effort to explain Oracle server product family in simple terms, without going too basic. Competition (and general resentment) with Microsoft runs throughout the company, and Ellison is not afraid to accentuate it. Mark Jarvis, a senior marketing official, supplied an interesting quote about Microsoft's practices and current Linux outlook: "Linux is the first thing that customers ask about. They love it." And as for Microsoft, "When they felt threatened by Netscape, it was just another company with a known HQ that could go out and bomb. But that won't work with Linux, just as it didn't work with Apache. Apache creamed them, and so will Linux. Microsoft has lost the server war."

Softwar provides an interesting insight into one of the largest software corporations, its business practices and famous personality of its chief executive officer. While this book prefers not to discuss the burned-up Ferraris on Highway 101 and personal jet fighters, we see Ellison as a serious and dedicated businessman. Ellison shares his experience from the past mistakes, talks about the current practices, and what he sees best for the company, emphasizes the idea of network computer as still useful and applicable to desktops, envisions Linux taking over the world (with Oracle supplying a lot of backend databases) and provides his insight into the future of technology. The book is a great read for those willing to find out more about Oracle or Ellison personally, as well as a primer on technology development and its future (from Oracle standpoint).

You can purchase Softwar from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

Comments

Oddly

[Pingular]

There's currently a story on Larry Ellison at silicon.com.
I love the first line: "Outside now... pistols, swords or databases, you decide..."

same price at amazon

[zontroll]

non-referral link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/074322504X/
Amazon has this book for the same price as bn ($19.60) Spend $5.40 more to get free shipping.


If you want to support my efforts to provide prompt Amazon pricing information, add ccats-20 to the end of the above URL. (It won't cost you anything to do this.) Thanks.

Re:same price at amazon

[zontroll]

Amazon also has "like new" copies from the marketplace as low as 13.50. The problem with the marketplace/half/ebay sellers is that they don't have a consistent inventory. They sell one for a price and then they have to either have another listing (may be a different price) or they have to relist and there's not a standard inventory price like from a store, so it's hard to quote valid pricing in a message board (like here).

Re:same price at amazon

[Theatetus]

Spend $5.40 more to get free shipping.

I guess that's "free as in speech" shipping, not "free as in beer" shipping?

Re:same price at amazon

[Anonymous Cowdog]

Just as they copy everything else Amazon does, B&N has now copied the free shipping for orders of $25 and up. We'll see how long that lasts. But what they haven't matched is that at Amazon, you pay no taxes.

Re:same price at amazon

[Anonymous Coward]

umm, in other words "don't click on that link, I want my referrals!!!!"

Re:same price at amazon

[nizo]

Well, I figure thats the cost of a paperback I would rather have then, um... nothing.

Re:same price at amazon

[PPGMD]

That's because that B&N has operations in almost every state so they have to charge sales tax.

Re:same price at amazon

[Anonymous Coward]

Why in the world do you want to support Spamazon rather than their patent lawsuit victim?

Re:same price at amazon

[Anonymous Coward]

it's a nonreferral link. can't you read?

oracle

[laurent420]

as for Microsoft, "When they felt threatened by Netscape, it was just another company with a known HQ that could go out and bomb. But that won't work with Linux, just as it didn't work with Apache. Apache creamed them, and so will Linux. Microsoft has lost the server war."

once again, the oracle has only told me what i needed to hear. ;>

Re:oracle

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that Apache never creamed Microsoft. Windows still runs the most servers (not sites but servers) of any OS and they never dominated in the first place. And that says nothing of File servers, applications servers, exchange servers, etc.

Re:oracle

[Anonymous Coward]

You are smoking crack, right?

Re:oracle

[Perl-Pusher]

Windows still runs the most servers

Better check your facts!

Most servers huh? Look again!

Re:oracle

[Anonymous Coward]

How about learning to read. I said servers not sites. They haven't updated their survey for that in a while but last time it had Windows at 50% with Linux at like 28%. There is a big difference between sites and servers because most hosts use Linux on boxes with thousands of sites.

Re:oracle

[Anonymous Coward]

By the way - here is the link. It is two years old but they never seem to publish this one anymore. I think it is part of their pay service. If you look at the time since then IIS (which has to be on Windows) has held pretty much the same percentage despite some peaks and valleys.

Either way, my other point is that Microsoft never had the lead in the first place. If anything they have taken from Apache not vice versa.

Re:oracle

[carlos_benj]

Windows still runs the most servers (not sites but servers) of any OS

So is your contention that it takes more Windows servers to run fewer sites? That doesn't sound like bragging rights....

Re:oracle

[muckdog]

Even if that's true thats a piss poor arguement if you're trying to be a MS fanboy

Re:oracle

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe that's because I am not an MS fanboy. I am part of that 29% that uses Linux and Apache on his webserver. I am not sure how stating facts is being a fanboy. I am just trying to show people that there is still a battle to be won.

Re:oracle

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, who's bragging? I am just saying that Apache beating IIS in sites doesn't mean that Linux beat Windows in servers. Fighting ignorance is what I am doing.

I would also point out that it isn't about capability necessarily (although part of it is). IIS can host multiple sites but Apache is a ton easier to do it with. If I am a big company with one or two sites, I am already paying Microsoft for Windows Server and I have an army of MCSE on staff then why not us IIS? If I am a web host with 10,000 sites and two guys to maintain it then I sure as hell am going to use Apache.

I know it sounds crazy, but

[aardwolf204]

Customers would have to figure out which were the best parts -- a Honda engine, a Ford transmission, a BMW chassis, GM electrical system -- and buy them and try to assemble them into a working car. Good luck. I know it sounds crazy, but that's how companies put together business systems today".

So whats wrong with that? Sounds like a fun project if you ask me. How about a Mini Cooper / Unicycle hybrid?

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[cybermace5]

Hybrid?

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[the_consumer]

Everybody knows that if a Mini and a unicycle mate, the offspring will be sterile.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[Tyler Durden]

Sounds like you should try out for coming on an episode of "Monster Garage."

Gosh but I can't get enough of that stupid little show.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[aardwolf204]

Hybrid?

Cross, Mixture, Mix, Amalgam, Fusion, Crossbreed.

A device or system combining two types of mechanisms, circuits, or design approaches, each of which could of itself accomplish the total function but in a different and usually less effective manner.

A crop line produced by crossing two genetically different parents. The offspring often show 'hybrid vigour' with better yields than either of the parent plants.

The young, or offspring, of two animals or plants that are different varieties or species..

The first generation offspring of a sexual cross fertilisation between two individuals differing in one or more genes i.e. a heterozygote.

an organism that is the offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock; especially offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties or breeds or species; "a mule is a cross between a horse and a donkey"

Man, Machine, Borg.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[aardwolf204]

Or better yet, lets take the popular "Monster Garage" and "Trading Spaces" shows and create a hybrid then real men can get into.

I'm sure that would get ratings like no tomorrow.

feel the sarcasm.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[bug-eyed monster]

Isn't this how house construction works? If I want to build a house (or even a building) I can choose the different parts separately, wall coverings, light fixtures, plumming, etc. Then hire a contractor to put it all together. To be fair, I can also buy a townhouse with more limited choices.

I think housing is a better analogy than cars. Cars provide a single function (more like a PVR or gaming console), houses provide the shell and the instruments to perform a variety of functions just like computers.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[allism]

It's called Monster House.

The retro-future house made me drool.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[aardwolf204]

Yes but those contractors building your house all speak the same language (ok maybe not the mexican landscapers but thats not the point). They all have a common set of tools, hammers, nails, drills, screws, etc... The same cannot be said for software and I believe that is what Oracle brings to the table, no matter what everyone would have you believe.

I am a prime example of a "contractor who only has a hammer". I speak PHP while some others in my company speak ASP (Yuck!), so while they gently screw in the pieces I whack it with my 40 pound PHP mallot and apache never complains.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[Lemmeoutada Collecti]

When you refer to hammer, which of the following do you mean?

Ball Peen Finish Hammer
Ball Peen Sheet Metal Hammer
Bal Peen Tack Hammer
Claw Finish Hammer (10 oz, 12 oz, 16 oz, or custom weight?)
Claw Roofing Hammer
Sledge Hammer (Short or long grip, what weight, what material head)
Shingle Hammer (with or without Shingle lifter)
Tack Hammer
Rubber Bodywork Hammer (Flat, round, ball, point heads)

And the screws yo refer to? What thread? Metric or SAE, or custom size reference? UK or US pitch formula? What length? Pan, Countersink, what head style? What meatrial?

Don't even get me started on nails or drills...

The point is there are so many 'standards' and they all started out just like OSS: Joe Contractor started using it, and Jane Contractor liked it, so they taught their apprentices, and eventually it became a 'standard.' Later standards bodies were created (ISO, ANSI, etc.) to correlate the standards.

(Oh, and ASP requires a very large impact hammer with a titanuim head to get the pieces to fit. We just hid it in a velvet pouceh)

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[bug-eyed monster]

In housing, the contractor is the one who puts it all together. Sounds like you're more of a subcontractor, e.g. a brick-layer. And a brick-layer uses a different set of tools compared to a painter or a plumber. Brick-layers, plumbers, roofers, painters have little interaction with each other and they constantly complain about how the shoddy job of one trade is stopping them from doing a good job themselves.

My point is, you can't compare a general-purpose computer accompanied by assorted software to a car. A car is too simplistic. A house is a better comparison, and yes, the construction industry has a lot of the same problems as the computer industry. BTW, brick-layers have choice words to say about dry-wallers, and today's plumbing never fits that of the 60's.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[dubiousmike]

The point he is making, though, is that the average customer buys the whole car (if the point is to be able to go from point A to point B; the business process). But nobody takes care of the 20,000 foot view of their business needs in one step. Instead, they seem to work on "projects", buying different parts, and hope that they can get them all to work together seamlessly. Could this be a big reason why Microsoft will lose the server war? They try to offer a suite of enterprise-ish components that are supposed to work seamlessly, but it seems that there are open source components that work faster/better and are free. Thus, many companies seem more willing as the minutes tick by, to make use of said components with custom implementation, saving money while gaining flexibility and freedom from proprietary requirements.

He, working for Microsoft, wishes the industry ran more like Detroit and the mindset was such that people were willing to pay out the nose for a complete package of services and applications as they hoped when they planned out their company strategy. If you are to own a fleet of trucks, you get big discounts becuase you will service your own fleet and the manufacturer is released from most of the warranty. Your aunt needs Toyota to make sure her car runs while under warranty.

Microsoft is very lucky that the home user does indeed need a "complete solution". The Linux distro install CDs go a long way to appealing to the traditional home user. But the games that you need Microsoft to play, and getting your computer pre-loaded with an OS and many tools/plugins needed for consumer internet browsing is why Microsoft really has a leg up on Linux. Until a major manufacturer starts shipping with a desktop Linux distro with Gaim (can't a distro just come ready to emulate Windows if necessary?), Flash/Shockwave/Real/Acrobat/Quicktime capabilities on by default when they first boot up, it will be tought to ever appeal to a mass market...

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[Rinikusu]

It may sound fun for those of us who like to keep ourselves occupied, but for someone doing it for a living and needs performance *now*, it's not ideal. For the vast majority of folks, turn-key solutions are needed.

Heck, I'm surprised no one's bothered creating some "tailored" Linux distributions for common server tasks. Think a nice LAMP distribution that's geared for doing web-serving. Just Linux + Apache + MySQL (or PostGRE) + PHP (PERL, Python, or RUBY), no annoying X or oddball packages. Just install, answer a few config questions, and you're up and running with minimum hassle. From a distribution maintainence point of view, it would be great from the sheer amount of work that it takes to keep packages up-to-date be kept to a minimum. The same goes for doing security: By creating a turn-key box with just a few services, administration would be made quite easy. I'm thinking something like Debian or LFS would be ideal here... The key is simplicity, not offering a ton of packages to choose from. The users who want that kind of choice will pick a distro right for them. This is about limiting options and then fine-tuning those options to work in the narrow confines of the sandbox you build.

But, in other words, it sounds as if Ellison is bemoaning the lack of an Apple in the server space where your apps are tightly connected to one another and the hardware itself...

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[KlomDark]

How about one of these? Estwing's new "Weight Forward" hammer. These things rock, and look completely alien as well.

I would have loved to have one of these 14 years ago when I was working construction while going to college! The shape of them kind of reminds you of those back-kneed aliens on "The Arrival"

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[Lemmeoutada Collecti]

Haha.. that's a perfect example of a 'Standard hammer'... I may just get myself on of these for use on my boat (for Crew motivation!)

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[DoomHaven]

I believe the joke made that you replied to is that you can't have a Mini-Unicycle hybrid, as they are both the same species.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[WasterDave]

Isn't this how house construction works?

Yes, and it's flawed. Apartments are starting to be pre-constructed in factories. They're cheaper, and have much lower defect rates.

Personally, bring it on.

Dave

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[aardwolf204]

So you want a LAMP distro? Why dont you just do it the easy was and only select those packages durring install. I'm no linux guru but every linux distro ive ever installed allowed me to pick and choose the packages to install.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[Rinikusu]

Turn key installation/configuration. A lot of times, the person doing the install may or may not know what packages are (not) needed. The idea is to eliminate all the crap that's not necessary for doing the basic job (and allows for customization later in case the basic configuation is a bit *too* basic). Here's where I think debian would be awesome for it's automatic dependency resolver abilities and what not for adding packages not included.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[NightSpots]

Until you upgrade to the new version of PHP and your code breaks.

Oh, you don't want to upgrade? Sorry, security hole, you have to.

At least ASP doesn't change the syntax, parsing, and configuration files every time it patches a security hole.

(Disclaimer: I also use PHP as my primary development language)

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[greg_barton]

How about a Mini Cooper / Unicycle hybrid?

OK

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[cpeterso]

With 1980s retro in full swing, I'm waiting for the re-release of a redesigned Delorian, like the New Bug and the Mini-Cooper. With those magical doors and a more modern design, I think it would be pretty schweet.. :-)

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[whereiswaldo]

And the screws yo refer to? What thread? Metric or SAE, or custom size reference? UK or US pitch formula? What length? Pan, Countersink, what head style? What meatrial?

Don't even get me started on nails or drills...

Easy, whatever gets the job done to the customer's specification within budget and according to the building code of the state or province. Use finishing nails to nail on chipboard, you'll be forced to re-nail it using compliant nails.

There is no such equivalent for consumer software, at least not one that is widely used. Build software however you want out of whatever you want, as long as it does close to what it's supposed to do. There is no warranty.

With a house, you build a shoddy house and you'll be pulled into court and likely forced into making the necessary repairs.

Re:I know it sounds crazy, but

[Lemmeoutada Collecti]

True, there is little (or no) remedy in the case of off the shelf software, but in the same vein, buy a premanufactured home and you are getting low press drywall, minimum vapor seal, and very likely will have bugs within a month (in Florida) in the house. None of which is remediable in court, caveat emptor. The building meets the customer specifications, passes the requisite permits and checks, but will likely not last five years.

Much like software where a cheap off the shelf solution is similarly shoddily constructed. On the other hand, hire your contractor personally, backed by full research and guarantees, and you get exactly what you pay for. Failures of the contractor are remediable in court, be it software or housing.

Of course, the housebuilding equivalent of OSS would be volunteer built homes, such as HUD or Habitat for Humanity. When the construction is guided by a knowledgable leader, some of those homes are quite well built and will outlast manufactured homes easily. Forget the leadership, or have too many leaders, and you get the platypus of homes.

Like all analogies, this one can be carried as far as the imaginative take it. But the general point I am trying to make is that standards do not guarantee better software, and being built by volunteers can be as reliable as built by professionals. The difference lies in the planning, leadership, and vision of the group, as much as in the assorted skills.

While Microsoft Software is, in my view, terrible work, there are some pieces of software out there, both OSS and Proprietary, that are sheer works of art. It is up to the end user to pick what works best and suits their needs best. And if the user feels it is worth blue screens and the other hassles of Windows to have a certain software, that is their value choice. Likewise, if the user does not mind text configurations and frequently skimpy documentation in trade for more complete control, then they have that option.

Hardly

[Doctor Faustus]

for being brutal to the competitors while staying within ethical limits

Like buying out a competitor to avoid competing
with their product? I think we have different ideas about ethical limits.

Re:Hardly

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a pretty standard business practice.

Re:Hardly

[pirhana]

In fact even though we bitche about microsoft and bill gates, others are not much different. As Oscar wild had said, their morality is the lack of opportnity. Thus SUN, which was a "better" company showed its true color by funding sco FUD and ellison showed it with failed coup attempt against Peoplesoft. In fact, I am sure most of these companies would be the same or even worse than microsoft had they been having such a cash balance and market share.

Re:Hardly

[IM6100]

Indeed. Mr. Ellison was a pioneer in the field of vapourware. There is a long history of his salespeople selling features to their database product then rushing back to the developers to see if it can be added.

And since we're talking about ethics, Ellision wrote the text book on sexual harassment in the high-tech industry, having sexual relations with high level female employees, then firing them within a week of the romantic breakup.

It's really a mistake to read a 'friendly' history of Mr. Ellison. There are far better and less biased books about Ellison and Oracle, for instance: this one which the big jerk must HATE.

If you look up the term 'Asshole in a suit' in the dictionary, you should find Mr. Ellison's picture on the page next to the defintion.

Re:Hardly

[oldwarrior]

No kidding! Oracle has been an overblown/hyped/marketed upgrade to an essentially dos-level app that has not really changed under the covers since the 80's. It's garbage but well supported garbage. I don't grudge him the money/business bit it ain't no nirvana.

Re:Hardly

[Anonymous Coward]

In fact even though we bitche about microsoft and bill gates, others are not much different. As Oscar wild had said...

I wonder if this was intentional...probably not.

Re:Hardly

[Anonymous Coward]

If you lookup Vaporware in the US Patents office - Oracle/Ellison do not appear to own it.

-Agreeing to provide "features that don't exist currently" is what Marketing/Sales does -- its up to the Dev. team to pull the rabbit out of the hat. Did you think the developers dream up all the features? Jeez, we'd all end up with talking paper clips!

Larry just says what's on his mind - often people would rather not hear it. IBM didn't want to hear his opinions on the $500 computer... and look who drove the prices down. The man is a visionary - watch, listen and learn - or ignore him and be clueless... you have a choice.

-Yup, those fired high-level female employees (who were perhaps interested in furthering their careers or financial standing) sure are upset that they can't provide false evidence and sue Ellison without his investigators pulling computer&phone records... Are you supposed give a promotion to a person after your personal realtionship sours?

I detect a great deal of Larry envy in your post -- but, since imitation is the highest form of flattery... I suggest you start wearing a suit.

takeover

[zymano]

So is the reason for the Peoplesoft acquisition because they want to put a competitor out of business or take it over because they want peoplesoft's software maintanance ?

Re:takeover

[larryj]

Neither. It was simply a reaction to PeopleSoft's acquisition of JD Edwards. PeopleSoft + JD Edwards = Oracle no longer the king of ERP software. That's king in terms of market share. Other than market share, Oracle's ERP apps don't come close to PeopleSoft.

Re:takeover

[leifm]

I thought SAP was the king of ERP software.

Softwar?

[EmCeeHawking]

When I first read the headline, I thought it was going to be about SCO's impotent battle against reality.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:sucky sucky, $24.95 at amazon.com

[zontroll]

are you on bad crack? It's $19.60 at Amazon, not $24.95.

if detroit was built like silicon valley

[proj_2501]

sure they'd only sell parts, but you'd be able to get car parts, truck parts, tank parts, plane parts, train parts, crane parts, snowplower parts, tires, tracks, helicopter rotors, blueprints, jet fuel, nitrous oxide, spoilers, giant robotic arms, spray paint for the exterior, radar systems, chassis extensions, ROCKET LAUNCHERS, and reconfigurable engines.

ANALOGIES SUCK.

Re:if detroit was built like silicon valley

[cybermace5]

sure they'd only sell parts, but you'd be able to get car parts, truck parts, tank parts, plane parts, train parts, crane parts, snowplower parts, tires, tracks, helicopter rotors, blueprints, jet fuel, nitrous oxide, spoilers, giant robotic arms, spray paint for the exterior, radar systems, chassis extensions, ROCKET LAUNCHERS, and reconfigurable engines.

I think I saw a Honda something like that down on Main Street the other night, but it had floater lights too.

Bouwahahahah

[heironymouscoward]

few people achieve such glamour and general recognition...

Few people outside communist dictatorships have invested so much money and time in such a powerful personality cult...

Re:Bouwahahahah

[Malcontent]

You are talking about MS right?

Re:sucky sucky, $24.95 at amazon.com

[Space cowboy]

"are you on bad crack? It's $19.60 at Amazon, not $24.95."

Wow! Amazon are certainly diversifying. I wonder if it'll get past customs if they gift-wrap it... Only if it's the good stuff though ....

Simon

Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[DAldredge]

Does it detail his support of the H1B/L1 visa programs or his desire to drive US programmers wages down to the levels of Indian programmers?

What about the use of H1B/L1 visa 'labor' to replace higher paid US labor at there offies in the US?

Is any of that covered?

As to those who say that H1B's have to be paid the same wages as Americans, please check. That was tied to the higher number of allowed visas and I do not think it applies any more.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[BigBir3d]

Face it, for what most H1B/L1 types do... paying an American 3x as much just doesn't make economic sense when you are trying to keep your company making a profit! If the tool is available, use it. By not using it, you make yourself less capable to compete. Certain big, profitable, companies know this. The rest piss and moan about how unfair it is... as they lost money hand over fist.

If $10 comes in, and $12 goes out...

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[BigGerman]

IMHO, on average, a group of IT people from India / China / Taiwan produces better talents than same number of Americans.
Larry and Oracle recognized this fact early and cashed on it.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[Probashi]

Wrong! H1B still have to be paid the prevailing wage. IT was never tied to the number of allowed visas.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, so I guess the fact that so many Americans are out of work ends up being great for corporate America... wages are depressed and people don't have jobs, so why not bring in a bunch of people from overseas and make the problem worse... lovely...

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[IdleTime]

As an L1 worker in Oracle, I can only say that I earn the same as my american coworkers and not less. Since this is /., I can not expect people to actually know what they are talking about.

It's not about money, but knowledge. Since they can't find people with the required knwoledge in the US, they have to find it somewhere else.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since they can't find people with the required knwoledge in the US, they have to find it somewhere else.

I know you are trolling. I just know it.

But honestly, with the number of skilled out-of-work IT workers in and around the Bay Area, I find it VERY hard to believe that there are any skills that you have that can not be found domestically, if Oracle actually bothered to look.

Or, by some miracle, you magically have some secret arcane technology knowledge that no American has, that this is a very common occurance.

No, there must be some other reason that a company would go through all the trouble of getting someone from overseas... I wonder what it could be.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[rabtech]

And when that strategy bankrupts and destroys the american middle class, who exactly will be left to buy the company's products? How will businesses that depend on those consumers continue to be successful, thus requiring software/hardware/other services?

You fail to understand that when the American middle class takes a hit, America takes a hit, period. Indian programmers making 1/3 of an American worker does not buy Xboxes, SUVs, or HDTVs.

Perhaps some companies should take a long-term view of the situation.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[rabtech]

That's funny, seeing as how I remember a recent story about how Americans are generally the most overworked and definitely the most productive in the western world.

There is a reason that Ford is bringing Focus production back into the USA from Mexico, unions and all. And there is also a reason that many companies find that once they have outsourced everything to India they really don't save that much money compared to hiring US workers.

The difference is that those middle-class US workers bought the company's HDTVs, SUVs, computers, furniture, games, etc. Those workers also bought products from 3rd parties that use their employer's products.

So I ask you - in the end - how much did they really save and what exactly will they do when there are no more Americans able to buy their products?

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly.
We need H1B visas stopped immediately. I know so many talented, CS grads and experienced AMERICAN workers who can't get a job because of H1B people are taking them all. For the record, H1B visa people are nice and just as talented, but if a corporation wants to stay on the American stock exchanges, they should have mostly American workers. If they don't, we ought to boot them off the stock exchanges and we'll see how well they do on India's stock exchange.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[DAldredge]

Large corps aren't even trying to look for such people in the US.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[znaps]

Sounds like you need to check. 'I do not think' doesn't seem to qualify as a fact in my book.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[BigBir3d]

If the economy slips due to less people buying the non-essential toys in life, so be it. We can all live without a SUV (cheaper and better gas mileage alternatives exist now), a game console, or a (most likely) replacement TV.

Food and shelter are top priority. Almost any job can provide a basic form of this.

Americans are to used to the following equation:

I want == I need

Sadly, most Americans forget that:

want != need

I suppose you were one of the people surprised when the DOW fell from its 11,000+ heights, when it got there for no real reason?

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[BigGerman]

>>the most overworked and definitely the most productive in the western world.
Definitely true.
My original post was to be taken literally - due to better education there are more talent to be found in equivalent groups of Indian / Chinese than Americans.
As far as the buying power, most of the foreign born IT workers in US actually contribute more to the economy than Americans simply because they arrive in the country with just their clothes on their backs and start changing cars / houses etc as their disposable income grows.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[Pig Hogger]

As an L1 worker in Oracle, I can only say that I earn the same as my american coworkers and not less.

Of course, you get paid the same as an american. In rupees.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[I8TheWorm]

My own personal experience with H1B workers has been that they live as cheaply as possible here in the US and ship the rest of their money back home.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[radish]

Why does H1B/L1 status infer lower pay? I'm on an L1 here in the good ol' US of A and believe me, I'm not on a lower salary than an equivalent US citizen. Maybe it depends on the company, but where I work moving someone from a regional office (in my case the UK) to the US costs the company a lot (relocation expenses, bonuses etc) - they do it because they need your skills elsewhere, not to save money.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[DAldredge]

In general, it is not those that come from Western Europe that get the low pay. It is those from India and other less developed countries that get lower pay.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[IdleTime]

Well, I'm not in the bay area, but in another US location. And it is not easy to get Americans who have the right knowledge and experience level in some areas, mione is one of them. It was not a troll, but the truth and I understand you may have a problem with it, but get over it.

I'm not an Indian, and I work in the US on an L1 visa and my salary is not worse than my american coworkers, rather the contrary.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[garyrich]

"There is a reason that Ford is bringing Focus production back into the USA from Mexico, unions and all."

If they are, it's not for quality reasons. I think it's understood by anyone that cares that the build quality of the Zx3, Zx5 and SVT Focus made in Hermosillo is significantly higher than that of the sedans made in the US.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[autopr0n]

You fail to understand that when the American middle class takes a hit, America takes a hit, period. Indian programmers making 1/3 of an American worker does not buy Xboxes, SUVs, or HDTVs.

Yes, that's right the world owes you an Xbox, SUV and an Plasma Screen HDTV. All because of where you were born. People who don't live in the industrialized world also deserve what they get. Starvation, pestilence, polluted water, corrupt murderous governments, whatever. obviously money has been distributed the way God intended and spreading it around is practically a sin! Haven't you ever heard of Karma? The Indians figured this shit out long ago, that's why they have a Caste system.

I mean, how can a person really be a person with out an XBOX hooked up to HDTV mounted in the steering wheel of their SUV?

Anyway, why does Oracle care what happens to the American economy relative to the world economy If India's economy goes up more Indians buy Oracle. They sell there stuff all over the world, not just here. It's the world economy that matters to these people not just the American one. And in any event an injection of highly-skilled laborers into the US population is not going to hurt the economy, certainly not to the extent outsourcing would.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[Anonymous Coward]

In other words, H1-B/L1 from Western Europe are okay, but from India, Phillipines etc are not? Nice logic you've got there, moron.

Re:Does it detail his support of H1B/Lower Pay?

[DAldredge]

Then why do so many Americans have to train their H1B replacements for 30,60,90 days before they leave?

Re:Roses are Red - MOD PARENT DOWN OFFTOPIC

[Anonymous Coward]

That makes absolutely no sense in OR OUT of context. Karma whore.

Re:$6 cheaper, no referal link, free shipping

[Anonymous Coward]

TUB GIRL in parent

What kind of article was that? Skip Askmen link

[anagama]

The article listed as an example of his great interviews, is just some vapid, empty, boring, dull, pice of shitty crap from some chick magazine masquerading as a men's magazine. Big info: Ellison has a personal tailor. Ooooooo. He risks his life in boats - he is a man. Ooooooo. He is a playboy stud. Ooooooo.

I'm going to go read a cereal box now. Anything will be stimulating after that.

Wrong person.

[DAldredge]

We are talking about Oracle, not Apple.

The lack of a level googolplex RDF should have tiped you off.

Re:Wrong person.

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be a mistake to call Steve Jobs and Larry Ellision 'butt buddies' because there's no validated photographic evidence.

Learn from Larry

[zulux]

Hey fellow Geeks....

Be like Larry... dress nicely.

If I have *one* peice of advice that will help you get more more, respect and more oppertunities with the opposite sex....

Be like Larry... dress nicely. It *really* worked for me: treat it like a game, say to yourself "I'll play their little status game, and I'll *WIN*".

Even the most inteligent, thoughtfull potential mate will be more interested in you if you dress nicely - not gaudy, just nicely. JC Penny no-iron slacks and no-iron shits, with some really comfortable ECHO shoes and a decent Seiko watch are just fine. The JC Peenny slacks and shirt are economical - their made with poliester so they last a long time and don't abosrb stains.

Re:Learn from Larry

[Textbook Error]

no-iron slacks and no-iron shits

Dude, if you're thinking of ironing your own faeces then you've got bigger problems than just dress sense...

Re:Learn from Larry

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if Larry has his suits custom tailored so that he can fit that huge chip on his shoulder into them...

Re:Learn from Larry

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah no iron-shit is great because ironing it takes so much time out of your day. I know I always waste my mornings doing just that.

Re:Learn from Larry

[GoofyBoy]

I think the bigger problem is that he's wearing it.

Re:Learn from Larry

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, the dot-com era is over. Those who haven't got the message about dressing well already, won't ever get it. If you had some personal appearance, why don't you explain this before you start preaching to the masses? That goes for your sig, too. Your mama is a non-working poor criminal corporation, fool!

Re:Learn from Larry

[JPelorat]

"say to yourself "I'll play their little status game,""

(I know this is a troll, but I can't help but respond):

As soon as you said that, you lost.

Re:Learn from Larry

[zulux]

Dude, if you're thinking of ironing your own faeces then you've got bigger problems than just dress sense...

Ahhh!!!

No wonder all my slcks have turned dark-brown.

I thought there were no-wrinkle, but it turns out they just had a layer of 'crust.'

Re:Learn from Larry

[prostoalex]

Interesting to note that in this book, the author gives a different explanation to Ellison's dressing style.

The suit, Symonds claims, is the way for Ellison to "give a finger" to Silicon Valley's mandatory business casual attire.

Re:Learn from Larry

[Anonymous Coward]

Larry does that stuff (nice dressing) but he's not a geek, nor does he have anything more to do with software than any other front-office salesperson. So he's not at all an 'example for the geeks.'

And actually, the way Ellision gets laid is by trolling his pool of female employees.

Re:Learn from Larry

[zulux]

"say to yourself "I'll play their little status game,""

(I know this is a troll, but I can't help but respond):

As soon as you said that, you lost.

If you mean by that, that I've lost my dency, inteligence and wit, then you're wrong.

No you haven't - *provided* you realise that it's just a game, and you're just playing it to get twoard your more noble goals. It hust a bunch of birds puffing up their feathers, not anything profound.

Being true to yourself is not about dress - Budda would still be budda if he wore a suit, a rag, or jeans.

Re:Learn from Larry

[nelsonal]

Try to find polyester/wool blend slacks. Make sure the slacks are not dry clean only, if you intend to wear them very often. They are much more comfortable and look a whole lot nicer, they hold the crease without ironing much better. It's odd how a change in hairstyle and dress really changes how people look at you, try it sometime, you'll be amazed. Same person different look different results. Go get a good haircut and let the person experment on a hairstyle that suits you and put on a nice shirt and pants and you'll get interest from people you would have never expected would be interested. Hit the discounters (like Ross and TJ Maxx) for good deals on nice stuff, that lasts a long time.

Re:Learn from Larry

[mellonhead]

...faeces...

Is that a typo or the English spelling? :-)

Re:Learn from Larry

[Anonymous Coward]

English
Those wacky chaps add extra letters all over the place

Re:Learn from Larry

[Anonymous Coward]

dude, you posted this in the wrong thread. Try checking under "Ask Slashdot: I'm tired of my mom dressing me."

Ellison?

[Thud457]

Is this the guy that thinks that robots are going to take over the world?!! I thought that guy worked for SCO.

Re:Ellison?

[pebs]

Is this the guy that thinks that robots are going to take over the world?!!

You mean robots haven't already?

Re:Ellison?

[tb3]

Do I get to say it?

"I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords."

Thanks for the straight line!

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[leerpm]

Yeah, this guy is worse than Scott McNealy. He rants on Microsoft destroying innovation in the technology industry. But when's the last time Oracle actually came out with a new innovative product? The most forward thinking thing they have done was port Oracle to run on Linux early on.

Then he rants about IBM's software and hardware business dying and them only selling services. Guess what Larry, the hardware and software businesses for 20-year old concepts like operating systems and relational databases is dying. And Linux is leading that trend, by commoditizing the software, and creating value in the support and services sector. People are willing to pay IBM for building new systems for them, but they don't want to continue spending ridiculous amounts of money on licenses ever year for your database software.

"Ethical" limits?

[Anonymous Coward]

for being brutal to the competitors while staying within ethical limits

I think you are mistaking the difference between "ethical" limits and "legal" limits. There's a wide gap.

Ever hear of PeopleSoft?

Re:"Ethical" limits?

[Anonymous Coward]

And your point is what exactly?

How is a buyout of company A by company B unethical? Ever heard of shopping?

Am I the only one...

[ultramk]

Am I the only one who read the title and thought, Ewwwww ?

m-

Re:Am I the only one...

[Danse]

Oh definitely not... first thing that popped into my mind was the Simpsons episode where Marge was painting Mr. Burns nude... :-/

Re:Am I the only one...

[Anonymous Coward]

FANTASTIC!

Old joke

[gwernol]

But a good one

What's the difference between Larry Ellison and God? God doesn't think he's Larry Ellison...

Boom, boom.

Re:Old joke

[selderrr]

you do know what ORACLE stands for, right ?

"One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison"

Re:Old joke

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean Larry Ellison thinks that he's Larry Ellison then?

Pick up his bio

[Anonymous Coward]

here

Ethical Limits

[sunderland56]

How come a google search of "Larry Ellison harassment" turns up so many hits, then??

Re:Ethical Limits

[selderrr]

oh puhlease !

Let me counter that with this or this or even fucking this !

Paychecks from Microsoft

[__aagmrb7289]

Does the book ever mention that Larry Ellison has been extremely effective at providing token resistance to Microsoft? I, personally, wonder where his paychecks are really coming from...

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[Anonymous Coward]

Those quotes are the reason I love to read about him.

Mod parent please

[GoofyBoy]

I think the above post is dead on.

There are choices in buying software systems as there are with buying a house or building.

Want something out of the box/cookie-cutter, done.
Want something wild and customed made to you, done.
Want something that looks/functions like this other thing, done.

What the customer wants, he gets.

Postgres?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, there is no mention of Oracle's technical
strengths (like MVCC?) And, isn't Oracle to
Postgres as Windows to Linux? Sounds like a
crappy book!

Re:Postgres?

[Theatetus]

And, isn't Oracle to Postgres as Windows to Linux?

Not really; Oracle is actually a viable alternative to Postgres. I certainly don't find Windows to be a viable alternative to Linux (though I know 95% of users disagree with me on that).

The Microsoft jab aside, Oracle's products in my experience are up to the level that the best-of-breed open-source competitors are at, and in some cases beyond. They're marketed towards a more sophisticated userbase so I assume they have to be. While they aren't the dynamos of innovation that they were, say, 10 years ago, they are contributing meaningful development to the RDBMS and ORDBMS world. Why Windows isn't viable for me is that it hasn't really changed anything but chrome and stability in the past ~5 years. So I don't think Oracle:Postgres::Windows:Linux really works in that sense.

Re:Postgres?

[Stone316]

Sorry, but I use both postgreSQL and Oracle. postgreSQL has a LONG ways to go before it can trump Oracle.

MOST FUNNIE I SEE ALL TEH DAY!

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn from grammer

[dannyelfman]

If I have *one* peice of advice that will help you get more more, respect and more oppertunities with the opposite sex....

With brilliant grammer skills like that I am sure you a wooing and awing a whole bunch of 7th graders.

slacks and shirt are economical - their made with poliester so they last a long time and don't abosrb stains.

So you are asuming that we are:

1. Cheap

2. Clumsy

Did it ever occur to you that some people have better things to worry about then trying to win the daily fashion show?

Re:Learn from grammer

[zulux]

With brilliant grammer skills like that I am sure you a wooing and awing a whole bunch of 7th graders.

Yep, managment-types like me. ;)

Did it ever occur to you that some people have better things to worry about then trying to win the daily fashion show?

Life is an arbertairy game - some people are born with skill, looks or wit. There's no dishonor in trying to improve any of them. In fact, dressing decently is less burdensome than not - people give you better service, it's easier to move ahead, people listed better to you, etc...

I dress decently out of *LAZYNESS* - im too lazy to get people to look over my sloppy grooming, I'm too lazy to woo women with a bad hair-cut, I'm too lazy to not get served at a store because I stink.

Just like tidy code writing is *easier* in the long run, keeping a tidy appearence is easier in the long run.

And before you think I'm a shallow ass - I do know when to not-care, I'm a mountain climber/ distance hiker and I don't get a shit what I look like then.

Life is a fun game - try not to get bitter.

Re:Learn from grammer

[Anonymous Coward]

you FUCKTARD...

Can you not even fucking spell what you're criticizing in this guy?

REPEAT AFTER ME
GRAMMAR. AR. AR. GRAMMAR. NOT ER.

=}O{=

Re:Learn from grammer

[maxpublic]

Life is a fun game - try not to get bitter.

What a delightful point of view. I'm sure the 10,000 12-year-old Muslim girls that were gang-raped by Serbian troops during the most recent Balkan war would heartily agree with you.

Life ain't a Mary Poppins film. For many folks - those outside the insulated, fat, privileged classes of the First World - it's all about bitter struggle, despair, and usually defeat.

Max

Re:Learn from grammer

[zulux]

For many folks - those outside the insulated, fat, privileged classes of the First World - it's all about bitter struggle, despair, and usually defeat.

All the more important to live a life of respect, and be able to help lift others out of their unfortuante circumastances.

Nothing good ever came out of dispair, nothing noble have out of hatred and fear.

Try not to get bitter.

Re:Learn from grammer

[dannyelfman]

Oh, I am not bitter at all. I just don't think that looks are everything.

I have really great hygene: I shave, shower and don't smell bad. I dress as nicely as I feel is needed. I also don't have trouble getting a date.

I don't think people who dress-up are shallow. Now the way that most of them act, well that is another discussion.

Re:Learn from grammer

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you considered that the west was once almost as poor as the Third World, what do you think changed that situation, privilege ? from where, God ?

The Third World sucks coz they didn't wise up to the values that the West has pursued, namely Democracy and the Rule of Law. Causality is the reason they are poor and bitter, they are living in barbarous dictatorships.

If someone shoots themselves in the head, they deserve to die.

Re:Learn from grammer

[bonch]

With brilliant grammer skills like that I am sure you a wooing and awing a whole bunch of 7th graders.

Yeah, those "grammer" skills you possess must be keeping you in style.

C'Mon...

[archaic0]

...While this book prefers not to discuss the burned-up Ferraris on Highway 101 and personal jet fighters...

I don't know about you guys, but those sound like good parts.

He tried to buy a Russian MiG jet fighter, but US customs wouldn't allow it and he blatantly upset San Jose-area officials by landing his private jet after the 11pm curfew imposed in the area. When you have $50 billion in the bank, a $10,000 fine seems like pocket change. Any guy who likes to defy convention and authorities, and flies fighter jets for fun, has to be cool. It's part of the definition

I want more of those kinds of stories. For those of of un in the technology sector (most of the slashdot readership, I'm sure) we've seen most of Larry's career develop I think. Sure, a biography like this will have some stuff we all missed, but juicy tidbits like the jet fighter can't be left out.

Re:C'Mon...

[mantera]

check this out

Ellison's raging ego

[McSpew]

I know the old joke about God not thinking he's Larry Ellison seems like an exaggeration, but Ellison's ego is uncontainable. I'd never seen him speak until I saw the segment about him on Cringely's Triumph of the Nerds PBS series. I was immediately repulsed by him. The man is obsessed with not only winning, but showing up his competitors. That's the difference between Bill Gates and Larry Ellison. Gates doesn't (publicly, at least) give a shit about Ellison. Ellison's obsessed with beating Gates.

There are a lot of huge egos in the computer industry, but none are larger than Larry Ellison's.

Re:Ellison's raging ego

[maxpublic]

There are a lot of huge egos in the computer industry, but none are larger than Larry Ellison's.

Steve Jobs is a contender. Jobs is just slightly more diplomatic about his monstrous megalomania.

Max

Re:Ellison's raging ego

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a lot of huge egos in the computer industry, but none are larger than Larry Ellison's.

The father of one of my roommates in college was a VP at Oracle. From what she said, he is as bad in person to the people he works with as with everybody else. He left within a year of getting the job, IIRC.

Re:Ellison's raging ego

[MrDolby]

Yeah I saw him on that show, he instantly made me think he was the villian mastermind in a James Bond movie.

Re:Ellison's raging ego

[Anonymous Coward]

What about Metcalfe.

The thing with him is that he is a complete idiot. He thinks he is God's gift to the world for marketing one stupid networking product. (yes, Larry Ellison can't compete with him on this one.)

Re:Ellison's raging ego

[Karadryel]

There are a lot of huge egos in the computer industry, but none are larger than Larry Ellison's.

True that. Moreover, I loved this quote from the /. blurb:

for being brutal to the competitors while staying within ethical limits

Talk about writing a pandering review of the book. Isn't this the same guy who hired a PI to dig through the garbage at MS?

Re:Ellison's raging ego

[scott-thomason]

I spent the longest six months of my life working for Oracle. If Oracle Corp were a person, it would be the biggest ass you had ever met...and Larry presides over it all. They make a fine DB, but overall, the world would be a much nicer place without Oracle in it.

Seriously OT

[Tyler Durden]

I don't know. I like the concept, but I never got into it because I was under the impression that the head guy from Monster House was an annoying, loud-mouthed prick.

Jesse James, however, is one of the best parts of Monster Garage imho.

Re:Seriously OT

[allism]

He is kind of a loudmouth, but more in a construction-worker sort of way than in an asshole sort of way. I don't know how to explain it any better than that - he doesn't seem to spout off about stuff he doesn't know, and a lot of the time he steps back and lets the guys get their jobs done. I have much more tolerance for someone who knows what they're doing and spouts off than someone who doesn't know what they're doing and spouts off.

It's fun to watch as long as you don't take him seriously - and I get the feeling he doesn't take himself seriously.

Man, we really HAVE gotten this offtopic, haven't we?

Re:Seriously OT

[Wah]

my favorite was when he pulled aside an 'electrician' and basically make the guy admit he had no idea what he was doing and asked him to walk off the set.

And, uh, he could kick Ellison's ass... -slightly on-topic, but not really.

Slashdotters coming out of the closet?

[Anonymous Coward]

In spite of the greater numbers of people "coming out of the closet" in this day and age, I'm not one who is much interested in viewing An Intimate Portrait of Larry Ellison.

SOFTWAR!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

french battle tactics

ethical limits?

[nocomment]

for being brutal to the competitors while staying within ethical limits

Does this include dumpster diving for trade secrets?

Re:ethical limits?

[dissy]

> Does this include dumpster diving for trade secrets?

If it was a secret, it should not have been discarded to be removed not by you but by the city, to go to a place that is not secure what so ever.

A company will spend hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars for a building with locks on the doors to keep whats inside secret. $50 for a paper shreader is not an unreasonable expense to provide for.

Re:ethical limits?

[Pig Hogger]

A company will spend hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars for a building with locks on the doors to keep whats inside secret. $50 for a paper shreader is not an unreasonable expense to provide for.

You obviously never had to deal with a accountants before.

Re:ethical limits?

[gcaseye6677]

Seriously, you're not kidding. My company scrutinizes small, routine expense reports a lot more than the ones for big ticket items. Lesson learned: If you're going to embezzle, go big!

Re:ethical limits?

[Anonymous Coward]

Love your sig! A thorn in two sides at once - I hope you don't get sued and I admire your principles.

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[Trigun]

Take a look at how they describe Bill Gates and Linus Torvalds on that site.

Bill Gates - Businessman
Linus Torvalds - Inventor

Priceless.

Uhhh.... HELLO?!

[Anonymous Coward]

A Honda engine?
A Ford transmission?
A GM electrical system?!

The correct solution would obviously be:

A BMW engine
A BMW transmission
A BMW electrical system

Re:Uhhh.... HELLO?!

[Anonymous Coward]

and what fun would that be? you obviously dont get it. you cant honestly tell me you never took apart an RC car when you were a kid and outfitted it with parts from a broken (read: too fixed) VCR?

Re:Uhhh.... HELLO?!

[Anonymous Coward]

uhhhh... actually.... no, I didn't

Re:Uhhh.... HELLO?!

[cayenne8]

"The correct solution would obviously be:

A BMW engine

A BMW transmission

A BMW electrical system"

Close....but, you need a :

Porsche Engine!!

:-)

Diarrehia economics.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah! And I love how that "profit" tricles down to the lowliest worker. Now I can afford a new mophead for the mop. Big hint if it was truely about "staying afloat" then alot of CEO's would be taking pay cuts, and ditching the golden parachutes. Funny how that's not happening. Quite the opposite. At least they like the RIAA/MPAA can only blow smoke up our collective skirts for so long, before people see them for what they truely are. Greedy, self-absorbed, race you to the bottom bastards.

even more OT

[aardwolf204]

wow, i seriously didnt know this hybrid show i speak of existed. I'll have to add that to my nightly lineup of MXC and Trek.

Re:even more OT

[Anonymous Coward]

MXC is the shiznit, yo.

Re:sucky sucky, $24.95 at amazon.com

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm still not paying $20.00 so Larry can get another BJ.

The definition of megalomaniac..

[Anonymous Coward]

I've read through Forbes articles documenting Larry Ellison's behavior.

Now, Forbes his definitely a pro-capitalist magazine, typically painting successful businessmen as entrepreneurs and leaders of the community.

But even they can't write an article about Larry Ellison without making him out to be a megalomaniac. It's impossible to hide.

Also, something that was left out: if you want to rile up Larry Ellison, should you ever chance to meet him in person, ask him about his pink tank top (Symonds relates an encounter in which he's wearing a pink tank top, and Ellison conveniently footnotes it vehemently denying he owns a tank top of said color).

Re:What kind of article was that? Skip Askmen link

[anagama]

"overrated"?

I feel it my duty to warn people off from the Askmen link. Here is an example:

• As well as a billionaire, Ellison is also believed to be quite a multi-faceted character: playboy, world champion sailboat racer, sports nut, jet pilot, ruthless businessman, marketing genius, and avant-garde thinker. We weren't kidding when we said he is no ordinary businessman.

You know, this article doesn't even say "database". Of course, it's on one of those horrible ad sites so the content is well disguised. If you want a better article, see Pingulars oddly modified post. Or what about Sunderland56's post about Ellison Abuse links on google? Also oddly modified

These are interesting - Askmen is just "Seventeen" in disguise. It's a link to set cookies for advertisers (if you aren't a rejecter). It is NOT a geek magazine. Utterly useless. And the odd modifications of substantive information makes me wonder whether it's tin foil hat time here on Slashdot.

Your Mama is a moneyed corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm already wage slave! But unlike you, I'm not blaming your Daddy!

Free databases

[doodleboy]

Ok, so Apache kills IIS and Linux kills Windows in the server space. How is it that MySQL, postgreSQL, et al don't kill Oracle? Why is Oracle spared when the rest of the proprietary software industry falls victim to commoditization?

Just wondering.

Re:Free databases

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly you know nothing about DBMSs then.

Clue: features, reliability, scalabilty, throughput, support...

Just a few things Oracle (or DB2 etc.) provide that toy DBMSs don't.

Re:Free databases

[Anonymous Coward]

Whereas Apache is a legitimate/superior product in the Web Server arena, the same cannot be said of MySQL and postgreSQL in the database arena (with a straight face). I know . . . they are making progress.

It comes down to performance, stability, data integrity, and feature set. If you are building an application where these things are important then you really have to discount MySQL and postgreSQL at this point. I suppose an argument could be made for other non open source DBMS' outside of Oracle though. IHMO Oracle is still tops though.

Re:Free databases

[pcraven]

Because Oracle has sales people?

Think about it. Who's going to tell people about the virtues of MySQL? Do you think executive will rather listen to developers (who usually hate anything sale-related), or highly trains and motivated sales people?

Re:Free databases

[Anonymous Coward]

Because we need to keep Larry around for entertainment value... I'm still waiting to hear about Bill's house being bombed by Larry's MIG.

Re:Free databases

[BigGerman]

Because the best of them, Postgres, today is roughly equivalent to Oracle v6 (popular about 10 years ago), maybe 7.1 in some areas, and Oracle is at version 10 now - 7 major releases ahead.

Re:Free databases

[f00zbll]

because when billions of dollars worth of transactions are on the line, how many companies have the resources to develop and test their application on huge iron or large enterprise systems. Do you think mysql or postgres has the money to buy several Sun E10K or IBM mainframes to make sure it runs well? Most likely not. How about running some seriously extreme loads to measure high availability and performance? Those kinds of resources don't come cheap. Not to mention the cost of running, and maintaining those systems.

Re:Free databases

[micq]

Our company is currently looking for alternative DB's to migrate most of the company onto, trying to bring the company onto just a couple different DB vendors. When they were discussing MS SQL, and IBM's udb, I pitched up the notion of looking at free alternatives, including PostgreSQL... Talk about being laughed out of a meeting...

They honestly are only looking at companies that are going to rape them in yearly fees, though one of the big hopes is to get one that will rape them less violently, they still want to be raped.

Oh well..

Re:Free databases

[micq]

I could understand if they 'laughed me out' on technical merit, actually understanding what they were laughing about, but this is the same crew that later in the same meeting took suprise to the fact that MS SQL won't run on our huge investment of AIX boxes... :-/

oh well

Re:Free databases

[radixvir]

isnt linux running on the same machine?

and doesnt the price of the rdbms speak for itself?

Re:Free databases

[zulux]

Because the best of them, Postgres, today is roughly equivalent to Oracle v6 (popular about 10 years ago), maybe 7.1 in some areas, and Oracle is at version 10 now - 7 major

I'll second that! PosgreSQL is great, I use it a lot, but your assement of it being like Oravle v6 is spot on.

however PostgreSQL does kick the crap out of MS SQL, and it's pace of improvment is very impressive - I don't think it will take them 10 years to catch up to Oracle 10.

Re:Free databases

[WNight]

Two reasons. Oracle has never been the default monopoly, installed on every computer. They've had to fight, quality and marketing, for where they are. This probably means they've got a higher quality product than Windows.

Second, everyone needs an OS. IBM needs it to sell computers, Oracle needs it to run their DB, id Software needs it to play their games, Yahoo needs it to run their web services on, etc. Everyone wants an OS that just works, but it's not their business so they'd rather just fix up whatever is holding them back and hand it off to someone else to maintain. There aren't as many fields that need a true enterprise quality DB with those last few features that PostgreSQL doesn't have. Not as many people have a motive to help develop a free super-high-end DB.

Not that Oracle won't fall eventually, as everyone who doesn't really need their product switches to Postgres, but it won't happen as quickly as with the OS.

Re:Free databases

[NineNine]

1. Oracle is a better product.

2. Oracle has been around for much, much longer than any of these new projects.

3. Oracle runs most of the very large, mission critical databases on the planet already, and has been proven.

4. Oracle has a real company behind it providing all kinds of support.

5. A database isn't a commodity (most non-data people don't know that... they seem to think that a database is something that you run "SELECT *..." statements against.

Re:Free databases

[V. Mole]

At present, those are all good points. 10 (or 8, or 5) years ago, HP and Sun and IBM made the same points about Linux vs. HP-UX/Solaris/AIX. Now it's becoming hard to justify paying for those OS's except in very big iron, high reliability, specialized operations. Oracle has made noises very recently about being everywhere, from the smallest to the largest. Ain't gonna happen, because MySql and Postgres are good enough for many applications, and getting better.

Larry and Oracle need to figure out whether they're going to deal with and incorporate the "toy databases", like IBM has done with Linux, or ignore the problem until they're on the verge of failure, like Sun.

Re:Free databases

[Anonymous Coward]

I see no reason Oracle can't maintain a signifcant market position, they hire smart folks and make a very good quality product.

It would require a very interesting turn of events for OSS to produce a high quality enterprise RDB, mostly because as you say there isn't a major grassroot interest in it.

Re:Free databases

[Anonymous Coward]

Just a few things Oracle (or DB2 etc.) provide that toy DBMSs don't

But who in the serious mind would compare SQLite to Oracle?

Re:Free databases

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like an ignorant bunch indeed. SQL Server being tied at the hip to Wintel is the biggest strike against it. Options are good. Your AIX problem illustrates this.

Believe me I don't take costs lightly and am no fan of the big vendor's but consider this . . .

If you are only allowed one factor to consider when making a database choice, in my world that factor has to be data integrity. At a minimum, this entails an unquestionable ability to recover from failure without loss of data. Businesses go under for less. The long term costs of inadequacy here far outweigh the short term savings in my book and this is more a part of the financial picture than anything else.

If it is believed that some particular data doesn't justify such protection then by all means choose the cheapest bit bucket you can find.

A case of you get what you pay for really. That said, the trick is to negotiate hard and get the big vendors to compete with each other for the business. All deals are not equal.

Re:Free databases

[pkesel]

You can restart a web server. You can add anotehr if you're seeing a slowdown. You can bounce a server itself hen it's acting badly. You can get more servers when you need it. These are transient components of an enterprise that can be switched on, switched out, or added to without changing the state of your business.

Data IS the business. It's where you've been, where you are, and the best guide for where you need to be. It's what you've been paid for, what you need to be paid for, and who is going to pay you for it. It's the answer to every customer's questions. You tell them, "Sorry, my database shredded your account. Can you remind me what we sold you and if you paid for it?" when you switched to something less than Oracle.

NO ONE risks their data.

Re:Free databases

[Gumshoe]

Ok, so Apache kills IIS and Linux kills Windows in the server space. How is it that MySQL, postgreSQL, et al don't kill Oracle?

Simple. Oracle is the better product in all equations that matter.

Re:Free databases

[1iar_parad0x]

I've used to be a DBA. I still work as with databases extensively on the programming side. MySQL/PostgreSQL != Oracle. Simple as that. Maybe things have changed, but when I worked with them, the open source versions lacked (to differing degrees) transactions, triggers/stored procedure language (i.e. offering query plans/table statistics would be the first start). I can't even imagine how MySQL could be modified to even offer these features. How does MySQL handle memory managment? My experience was that MySQL's bugginess (lack of row-level locking aside) made scaling a problem. Gee, why don't you try to scale a DBM file. Trying to convert MySQL into a enterprise level database is like trying to get DOS to UNIX. Sure I could use a bunch of TSRs to emulate multi-tasking, but would I want to run DOS in a pacemaker. Look, I'm all for OSS alternatives. Heck, I always recommend MySQL or PostgreSQL as a great Access alternative. It's great for small applications. Why doesn't the open source community build a real RDBMS from scratch? Heck, that would be cool from an educational standpoint.

Which leads to the question.... What is the Minix equivalent of Oracle. I'd love to find a educational database with source code available that is as well documented as Minix.

Microsoft?

[Anonymous Coward]

and for genuine opposition to a Redmond-based software company called Microsoft

Sounds interesting. Anywone else hear of this company? And why does he oppose it so much?

You forgot on thing

[HomerJayS]

Be like Larry and have a billion $ in the bank.

Nothing says love like "I wanna be your sugar daddy".

Plus the bank account helps your potential mate overlook the fact that you are a megalomaniac.

Re:You forgot on thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Very true.

Come on, come on, love me for the money
Come on, come on, listen to the moneytalk

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm curious what Linus invented? Innovate, yes. Invent, no.

ethical?

[Jafafa Hots]

I had some personal contact with L. E.

ethical is about the last word I would use to describe him.

There's a difference...

[Short Circuit]

...between hating the destruction of innovation, and not innovating yourself.

By porting Oracle to run under Linux, they gave Linux a major boost. With the right resource management enhancements, Linux could, hands down, be the first choice for Oracle servers, on a performance basis.

We're already on the way, what with the O(1) scheduler, and RCU.

I was surprised when Linux didn't have support in the scheduler for the Xeon's HyperThreading until it was included in Intel's consumer-line CPUs.

Cult of Jobs

[xtermin8]

For Jobs it is the other way around, he used his cult of personality to make money in the first place- although he's done some awful things, he could lose everything tommorrow and still bank on his charisma. I don't know if Larry's business saavy would work without money to back him up. Just another opinion

I always...

[Short Circuit]

...picture him looking like the Architect.

How is buying a company unethical?

[BoomerSooner]

It's done in business every day. Hell that is the only thing my parent company knows how to do (that is how the company I work for got purchased). I have a difficult time understanding the thought that it is unethical to buy out a competitor. Remember they don't have to sell.

Re:How is buying a company unethical?

[Doctor Faustus]

Remember they don't have to sell.

When it's a hostile takeover, yes, they do. Oracle is attempting to takeover Peoplesoft so that they don't have to compete with them.

Re:How is buying a company unethical?

[Anonymous Coward]

When it's a hostile takeover, yes, they do. Oracle is attempting to takeover Peoplesoft so that they don't have to compete with them.

Companies put themselves in the position to be in a hostile takeover. No company can just purchase another just becasue they feel like it. There are preexisting conditions that would have to be in place and that is not the fault of the company that is preforming the hostile takeover.

Re:How is buying a company unethical?

[Anonymous Coward]

When Ellison threatened to cancel Peoplesoft's product line after the takeover, he made it harder for Peoplesoft to sell products.

Which, he hoped, would hurt Peoplesoft's business. And make it easier and simpler for Oracle to take them over.

I have never heard of anything as despicable and unethical as this. Ellison deserves to fry, and as a result is useless as an anti-Microsoft spokesperson. If anything, his attacks on Microsoft just add credence to the argument that "it's a tough industry, so Bill Gates also had to be tough to survive."

Let's shut up Ellison and quit celebrating jerks like him.

Re:How is buying a company unethical?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Let's shut up Ellison and quit celebrating jerks like him.

From the looks of it, this book is a self-effusing container of very squishy, yet sweet smelling, poop for mister Ellison.

I guarantee, when it comes down to it, Ellison had final say on what went into this book. The author is no doubt enjoying the fruits of Mr. Ellison's labor.

Kind of reminds me of the way Idi Amin Dada Oumee's biography probably went.

l8,
AC

The irrelevance of Silicon Valley to Larry Ellison

[Animats]

The funny thing about Larry Ellison in Silicon Valley is that he's mostly ignored here. He has the database business, but nobody else in the Valley does much in that area. His ventures into new technologies like thin clients, video streaming, and supercomputers have all been duds. Oracle is viewed as a large but boring enterprise applications company like Computer Associates, SAP, or Automatic Data Processing.

Larry Ellison doesn't often mention...

[emil]

1. That Craig Conway, CEO of Peoplesoft (ERP), was once an Oracle VP.
2. That Tom Siebel, CEO of Siebel Systems (CRM), was once an Oracle VP.

Oracle has chased multi-million dollar businesses right out of its management structure - and then spent millions trying to duplicate this competing software to (re)capture market share.

I would be really interested to hear Larry's take on Oracle's mistakes. I'd also like to hear how he plans to compete with a free product from SAP-MySQL that begins to implement the equivalent features of his database.

Re:Larry Ellison doesn't often mention...

[Usquebaugh]

The SAP-MySQL link is only a fairly recent development. I would like to see how Ellison views it and how his approach will differ from the microsoft approach to Linux. Hey, how about an ask /. to Ellison :-)

Re:Larry Ellison doesn't often mention...

[glgraca]

Everybody makes mistakes.
Yours might cost you hundreds, maybe thousands;
Larrys cost hundreds of millions.

Whos going to sleep worrying about the mortgage?

Re:Larry Ellison doesn't often mention...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like "Happy Days" and the "Laverne and Shirley" nexus there. AKA spin-offs. Good-ole boy network. Blah blah.

Re:Larry Ellison doesn't often mention...

[Malcontent]

I think he has already reacted to that. Oreacle has done two things.

1) Increase the capabilities of their database so that no open source database is even close.
2) Diversify the business so that most of the money comes from selling applications and tools.

I believe that one day Ellison will open source a base version of Oracle. If oracle light (which is quite capable) is open source it will rapidly take over the low end and provide a natural upgrade patch to oracle enterprise.

Re:Larry Ellison doesn't often mention...

[emil]

I'll believe it when I see it.

Yeah, but an entire car is illegal!

[Richthofen80]

A supporter of open standards, Ellison does not like the cacophony of enterprise-scale products offered to the companies. "If Detroit ran like Silicon Valley, nobody would sell cars -- just parts", he proclaims. "Customers would have to figure out which were the best parts -- a Honda engine, a Ford transmission, a BMW chassis, GM electrical system -- and buy them and try to assemble them into a working car. Good luck. I know it sounds crazy, but that's how companies put together business systems today".

Yeah, and when you try and package the entire car, you get sued for product integration, like IE being built into Windows.

Re:Yeah, but an entire car is illegal!

[pmz]

Yeah, and when you try and package the entire car, you get sued for product integration, like IE being built into Windows.

Cars are, for the large part, built on standard interfaces. I can go to pretty much any auto parts store and get third-party tools and parts. You don't get DMCA'd after taking the oil-pan off of your engine just for a look-see (though the engine computer might be a different matter).

Open standards are the future of the software industry, more so than in the past, because of the push for "Desktop Linux". I know this topic is passe in the threads of flame-wars, but consider the significance of Linux + GNOME/KDE + Mozilla + OpenOffice.org. The reason I think companies like Sun, Lindows, etc. will eventually do well with their linux-based desktop systems, is that, finally, word-processor documents are based on OpenOffice.org's format not the vendors' (i.e., you get Microsoft Word with your order of Microsoft Windows rather than OpenOffice.org/StarOffice with your order of Sun JDS/Mac OS X/Lindows/Windows/etc.).

Portrait of Larry Ellison?

[Loki_1929]

Think I saw that somewhere else...

O.R.A.C.L.E.

[Anonymous Coward]

Employees of Oracle know what it really stands for: One Real Asshole Called Larry Ellison

Not only that...

[IANAAC]

Oracle's consulting business will never go away. Companies can hire all the Oracle DBAs they want, but come implementation time of a specific Oracle product, their own consultants are almost always involved.

Oracle=Better Design

[rohar]

Oracle is staying ahead because multiversioning reads are a better database design for 24/7 hybrid (OLTP/OLAP) systems (i.e. ecommerce and just about everything else).

PostgreSQL is the only other product out there (including MS-SQL Server, DB2, Postgress, Informix, Sybase and MySQL(unpatched)) in which reads don't block writes and vice-versa.

The row level locking is also an original design in Oracle, where SQL Server and DB2 it is an add-on and both of them will eventually run out of row level locking resources and escalate to table locking.

Re:Oracle=Better Design

[Stone316]

I thought SQL Server readers blocked writers and vice versa even when the locks were row level?

Re:Oracle=Better Design

[rohar]

Yes, they do.

I was spewing about two different topics, both of which (the reader-block-writers and lock escalations) make implementing large table solutions more difficult in non-Oracle databases. Not impossible, just more of a pain in the ass, and IMO push the TCO way up for non-Oracle solutions.

Re:Oracle=Better Design

[Dave500]

This is very true.

Other vendors out there don't get just how important this feature is.

In particular, Sybase ASE (which Microsoft SQL server is based on) *still* does not have this feature. Sybase's slant on it goes "If you design your system correctly, the fact that selects block updates does not matter in an OLTP system. Implementing MVC carries a significant overhead.". I have tried in vain for many years to convince them that:

a) The hard truth of the world is that very few systems are well designed. A good RDBMS should try and service even the worst of these.

b) Blocking lock strategies degrade very badly under load - the minute the system starts to slow down, the chance of blocking increases, which slows the system down further - see a repeating pattern here??

c) DSS style systems die without multi version control. Ever tried updating your system when somebody is running a 6 hour report against it?

I personaly don't like the Oracle product itself (its architecture from a DBA's perspective is a dogs breakfast compared to Sybase ASE, IBM's UDB/DB2, Informix or Ms SQL server), but this feature alone makes it perform far better that any of these in most real world situations.

Why other competitiors don't get this is beyond me...

Rant over. ;)

What's the difference...

[Anonymous Coward]

between Larry Ellison and God?

God doesn't think He's Larry Ellison.

Did you hear "WHISH" when you read the parent?

[Ayanami Rei]

I think you missed the joke.

Hybrid? - signifying that Minis and Unicycles are essentially the same thing, so a hybrid would be redundant.

ha. funny. haha. Mini's are small. lol!

Oracle is innovative

[Stone316]

I've been a DBA for about 7 years now and out of all the databases I support I enjoy Oracle the most... why? Because they have vision. Listen to some of Larry's keynote speeches at various events... Sure he takes shots at competitors (which are usually pretty funny) but personally, I like the way he pushes technology and the direction he's taking. Sure, sometimes he's wrong but at least he's not afraid to step up to the plate.

Everytime I get called to go to another vendors info day or session they always compare themselves to Oracle. Does DB2, SQLServer, etc have vision? If they do, they don't advertise it. Maybe I would look more favorably towards them if they actually showed some innovation.

Ellison, the Self-Made Man

[llywrch]

> Unlike many biographies, Softwar doesn't start with Ellison's poverty-ridden childhood in a
> poor Russian-immigrant family, where he was an adopted kid.

I'm not sure if the reviewer was being tongue-in-check when he wrote that, or was honestly bamboozled by Ellison's PR machine. I am sure that when I read that, I remembered the comment his older step-sister once made on Ellison & his background: ``Every time I read about my adopted brother, the old neighborhood seemed to drop another notch on the socioeconomic scale."

According to Gary Rivlin, who wrote in his _The Plot to Get Bill Gates_, Ellison ``had grown up in a tidy community, home to its share of judges, doctors, and univeristy professors. His stepfather had known failure, but by the time his nephew came along, the senior Ellison was working respectably if dully as a bean counter for the local public housing agency. Their two-bedroom apartment was small and money may have been tight, but it was hardly the fough-and-tumble world that Ellison conjured up later in life."

Geoff

Re:Ellison, the Self-Made Man

[cybermace5]

In this we have a classical example of someone trying to elevate their success by stretching the distance they had to climb. Dickens perfectly treated the development of this type of character as Josiah Bounderby in "Hard Times":

'I was to pull through it, I suppose, Mrs. Gradgrind. Whether I was to do it or not, ma'am, I did it. I pulled through it, though nobody threw me out a rope. Vagabond, errand-boy, vagabond, labourer, porter, clerk, chief manager, small partner, Josiah Bounderby of Coketown. Those are the antecedents, and the culmination. Josiah Bounderby of Coketown learnt his letters from the outsides of the shops, Mrs. Gradgrind, and was first able to tell the time upon a dial-plate, from studying the steeple clock of St. Giles's Church, London, under the direction of a drunken cripple, who was a convicted thief, and an incorrigible vagrant. Tell Josiah Bounderby of Coketown, of your district schools and your model schools, and your training schools, and your whole kettle-of-fish of schools; and Josiah Bounderby of Coketown, tells you plainly, all right, all correct - he hadn't such advantages - but let us have hard-headed, solid-fisted people - the education that made him won't do for everybody, he knows well - such and such his education was, however, and you may force him to swallow boiling fat, but you shall never force him to suppress the facts of his life.'

Of course later we discover that Mr. Bounderby has been paying his loving mother (supposed to have placed him in a ditch as an infant and "bolted") to stay in the next town, and to never visit him.

Amazing

[Lysol]

After countless /. stories on Amaz0n patent abuses(?), people still link and buy from these guys! It's beyond me..

"An Intimate Portrait of Larry Ellison"

[Goody]

Why am I visualizing something from the goatsecx website ? Ugh.

Whoracle

[Lexor]

I worked for Oracle, we actually called it "Whoracle". It was one of the worst experiences of my working life.

As for analogies, if I could have a car with a Honda engine, American styling, etc. then I'd be a happy person. Oracle certainly doesn't do everything right, they have a good database and that's about it. It's incredible overkill for most mid-sized business though, yet they cram it down the throat of everyone they can.

Ellison is no genius, his core business was actually built on the infinite resources of U.S. Military Black Ops contracts. Sure he hates Gates and MS, but only because he didn't get there himself.

Re:Whoracle

[sql*kitten]

Ellison is no genius, his core business was actually built on the infinite resources of U.S. Military Black Ops contracts.

The original Oracle project - storing data on mylar strips for the CIA - was small and didn't get very far before it was cancelled. The thing that really did it for Oracle was that they had a government contract at all - they showed it to IBM to prove they were a serious company, and IBM sold them a mainframe to develop on. That was the leg up they needed.

Wow these high priced interoperability consultants

[Ayanami Rei]

have nothing on a carpenter! :-)

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[mzito]

Whoa, whoa, whoa - Oracle not innovative? Oracle is, in fact, doing a huge amount of work to drive their database and application server forward. Here's a list of some of the things they're doing that I have seen working in test environments:

-Volume management - that's right, the database with an integrated volume manager. Self-tuning, self-healing, online migration and mirroring - what other database has that?

-distributed clustering over high-performance interconnects - okay, db2 has this, but does it differently. With oracle 10g, nodes can actually share their memory purely in hardware over InfiniBand to improve performance and reduce latency for clustering.

-Wrote their own clustered filesystem - its not the greatest thing since sliced bread yet, but Oracle took a look at the clustered filesystems available for Linux and decided to write their own specifically geared towards Oracle.

This is just the start - I'm not even touching on some of the data representation things they've done with the database and application server. While Oracle made a very smart move porting to Linux, they continue to be leaders in pushing Linux forward as an enterprise platform, even working around Linux's limitations where they feel they have to.

Now, I'm a touch biased - my company has a database appliance product based around some of these features I just listed. But there's no question that, after having worked with a number of different nameless database vendors, Oracle has the most comprehensive, forward-looking, and innovative insight into the future of the enterprise database in the industry.

As always, just my .02,
Matt

...staying within ethical limits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you kidding? Next to Larry Ellison, Bill Gates is an altar boy.

Larry is famous for overriding his managers and firing them if they don't agree with him. As a result he's surrounded by syncophants.

Larry has been at the receiving end of multiple sexual harassement suits. The joke at Oracle used to be that you could tell who Larry was sleeping with by looking for the new Acura.

And what about Larry landing his fighter plane at San Jose airport (which is right downtown San Jose), in violation of noise ordinances and repeated complaints? Larry just gives a big "fuck you" to the community every time he does that, because he thinks the laws don't apply to him.

Larry's hubris is almost as amazing as his selfishness. When you hear about him holding a management team together for more than two years, or working WITH the community to enjoy his hobbies, or donating even 1/100th of what Bill Gates donates to charity, be sure to post that.

Ethical?

[t0ny]

for being brutal to the competitors while staying within ethical limits

I wouldnt say that; neither the "brutal" (in other than a blustering vocal way) nor the ethical are true.

Once again, Slashdot puts somebody on a pilliar just because they ARENT Microsoft.

Larry Ellison rocks.

[mentatchris]

I wrote a paper on this guy for school.. he's easily the most colorful of the big name tech CEOs today. When I wrote my paper, I used:

The Difference Between God and Larry Ellison : *God Doesn't Think He's Larry Ellison
by Mike Wilson (Author)

and

The Oracle of Oracle: The Story of Volatile CEO Larry Ellison and the Strategies Behind His Company's Phenomenal Success
by Florence M. Stone

The Difference between God and Ellison was a great read and was very well written. I'd avoid the Oracle of Oracle... it's poorly written.

I'm not sure I like Ellison, but he wins for Chutzpah and style... I always laugh when I hear what he's up to.

No, you appear to be wrong.

[DAldredge]

Economic Times of India ^ | November 16, 2003 | RAJAS KELKAR AND SANGEETA KULKARNI

Posted on 11/16/2003 2:03 PM PST by sarcasm

MUMBAI: Large Indian software companies such as Infosys Technologies and Wipro may face lower costs in their onsite operations as the minimum salary requirement for H-1B visa holders in the US no longer exists.

Industry sources and senior company officials said that along with the reduction in the number of H-1B visas to 65,000 from 1,95,000 a few months ago, the restriction on companies to pay H-1B visa holders a minimum salary of $60,000 per annum or equivalent wages was also removed. Since the two were linked, the reduction in the number of H-1B visas automatically removes any minimum salary requirement.

"The waiver has already been put into effect ever since the number of visas issued per year were reduced from 1,95,000 to 65,000, all conditions attached to the earlier visa limit therefore are gone," said a Wipro official. Officials at domestic software service companies told ET that companies now have a free hand in the payment of employee salaries under the H-1B regime.

According to industry sources, when the US imposed a restriction relating to minimum salary in '01, many companies opted for a L1 visa, which allowed them to circumvent the rule. However, talks of restricting L1 visas resulted in many companies reverting to H-1B visas.

The absence of minimum salary requirements is likely to improve margins and cut costs for large companies such as Infosys who have a significant onsite presence.

Analysts say the onsite revenue contribution for most companies is about 35-40% of total revenues. Onsite operations account for 30-35% of the total revenue of these firms and onsite staff account for 20-25% of the total workforce. Infosys Technologies, for instance, billed 11,873 people onsite in the September '03 quarter and 11,590 people during the June '03 quarter.

The company's proportion of onsite revenues to the total revenues in the September '03 quarter was 54.1%.

Brokerage firm DSP Merrill Lynch estimates that a 10% reduction in H-1B salaries could expand margins of Indian software vendors by an average 100-180 bps.

"Infosys could benefit the most as it has close to 76% of onsite employees on H-1B visas, followed by Satyam with 50% and Wipro with 36%," the brokerage firm said in a note late last week.

However, companies that have increased salaries of their onsite staff will not be able to reduce salaries despite the decision, senior officials at software service companies said.

Large software vendors have not taken any action yet stating that they are waiting and watching these developments closely.

MphasiS has close to 475 people onsite at any point of time. According to Ravi Ramu, CFO, MphasiS, the company does not see any significant impact as a result of the waiver. "Companies with a sizeable proportion of their staff onsite would not drastically reduce salaries at a time when the business is gaining momentum," Mr Ramu told ET.

Smaller and medium sized companies, employing between 800-1,500 people, are likely to benefit from the waiver and may respond to it by increasing their offshore salaries. "There will be no impact on salary levels of offshore staff because of the US governments decision, since there is no co-relation between the two. Since all companies have a dominating offshore presence, it won't be a problem in the immediate term," a senior official from a second rung company said.

The industry association Nasscom (National Association of Software Service Companies) refused to comment on the subject when contacted by this paper. According to sources, the association is working hard to increase the number of H-1B visa holders.

AFAIK HyperThreading did work...

[Ayanami Rei]

you'd get 2x CPUs to schedule on, it's just that the kernel didn't know that not all the virtual CPUs are "created equal" (migrating one thread from one HT port to the other on the same physical chip is less useful than migrating it to a different chip if you are CPU bound, but it's a better choice if you are transferring a lot of data in and out of memory for cache coherency)

Re:AFAIK HyperThreading did work...

[Short Circuit]

Right...that's what I meant.

As far as the OS is concerned, the HT ports are just CPUs. Linux had to recognize that the processor supported HT in order to relax transfer instructions between the HT nodes.

Old Joke and book title

[V_drive]

i looked up this book on amazon and it recommended another, the title of which litterally is "The Difference Between God and Larry Ellison : *God Doesn't Think He's Larry Ellison"

And with good reason

[Stone316]

There is a place for opensource databases and your company may not be one of them. You don't provide any details about your applications so how are we supposed to know if postgreSQL is an alternative? Yet you still state,

"They honestly are only looking at companies that are going to rape them in yearly fees, though one of the big hopes is to get one that will rape them less violently, they still want to be raped."

Since you are expecting us to make assumptions, can we assume you used the same persuasive arguments in your meeting?

Don't forget call girls

[Ayanami Rei]

to ride in the passenger seat.

Re:Don't forget call girls

[proj_2501]

you think detroit doesn't already have those?

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[Capt_Troy]

I'll agree with that. Personal impressions of Ellison aside, Oracle is the innovator in the relational database world. There are a lot of things you can do in Oracle that you can't in other DBs.

Personally, I wonder if Oracle has done any research and development into the Object Oriented database field?

All I Can Say is...

[zieroh]

Larry who?

3 new larry books in 6 weeks--what's going on?!?

[V_drive]

i went over to amazon to check out this book and it recommended another about larry, first edition release november 11 ("The Difference Between God and Larry Ellison : *God Doesn't Think He's Larry Ellison" by Mike Wilson). it was available cheaply so i selected the two and proceeded to checkout, when amazon presented me with a whole page of recommendation and i saw another ("Everyone Else Must Fail : The Unvarnished Truth About Oracle and Larry Ellison" by Karen Southwick) ALSO with the release date of november 11. including the one referenced in the article (released october 1), that makes three books about larry ellison released within a peariod of 6 weeks.

anyone know what's going one? are there more books? is this some kind of strange marketing campaign? all three of them are by different publishers, yet two release on the same day!

LE is overrated

[theMerovingian]

From the article:

Well what would you call someone that promises products with features that don't even exist, only to go back to developers and demand that they deliver these forthcoming products? What about hiring staff that are not qualified for their positions -- so unskilled, in fact, that they required manuals when chosen for their respective positions?

That sounds like your average consultant shop, to me!

Oracle 8

[Ayanami Rei]

took the cake vs. open source RDBMS' when it first came out.

It is only in the last 3 years that pgsql has gotten Oracle-good, and MySQL/Firebird/Sybase brought in some recently opensourced techs to get feature complete.

I'm 100% positive open source has been playing catchup in the RDBMS arena w.r.t. Oracle for, well, since forever.

Re:Oracle 8

[Theatetus]

I was being euphemistic when I said Oracle was as good as or better than Postgres. It's not entirely a fair comparison, though: I know lots of shops that run Oracle right out of the "box" (well, "large envelope" in most cases I've seen) and are happy with it; the postgres shops I know all run their custom version of postgres with their own bag of tricks in it, something that's not as easy to do with 9i.

So, yes, a default Oracle tends to be better than a default postgres, but I don't know many people who use the vanilla postgres.

Your not a DBA

[Stone316]

If you were, you'd know why. Best leave these decisions up to the resources you have hired to do this work. As a DBA, its simply astounding how many people put their .02 worth in yet have no understanding of RDBMS's.

Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Ellison is known...for being brutal to the competitors while staying within ethical limits

Brutality, yes. Ethical limits, no. Ellison is known for ignoring those, and even putting the phrase in the same sentence as his name is an insult to all those he has screwed. Posted anonymously because I don't want to be one of them...again.

aeh

[Anonymous Coward]

A supporter of open standards, Ellison does not like the cacophony of enterprise-scale products offered to the companies.

You've clearly never used Oracle's enterprise management apps on proprietary Oracle databases.

crazy work ethic

[mcguyver]

On a documentary he was quoted as saying something along the lines of putting in 60 hours a week is hard work, 80 hours a week is persistence and 120 hours a week is dedication. Then in the interview he talked about how at 120 hours a week there is not much time left over for eating and sleeping. That's insane.

Re:sucky sucky, $24.95 at amazon.com

[e40]

You probably haven't heard that Amazon.com charges different prices at different times for different users, so it's entirely possible that it was $24.95 for him.

My Bio of Elison

[pyrrho]

Ok, think asshole. No, bigger than that.

correction: got the release date wrong on one

[V_drive]

"The Difference Between God and Larry Ellison : *God Doesn't Think He's Larry Ellison" by Mike Wilson was actually relesed several years ago and was released on paperback on November 11 (which is what came up on Amazon). so, it's looking like a little less of a conspiracy.

ethical?

[sfjoe]

...the industry's 'other billionaire,' for being brutal to the competitors while staying within ethical limits...

You must be using a definition of the word 'ethical' that I am not familiar with. Anyone got a dictionary?

does oracle and linux sound like a match

[Anonymous Coward]

i understand that larry is the king of the anti-ms , but why would anyone purchase linux and oracle? doesn't linux and oracle sound like eating a peanut butter and motor oil sandwich? btw, i would never buy oracle. you know its overpriced when larry publicly states that its his goal to be richer than bill. what an ass.

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[Jester99]

I wonder if Oracle has done any research and development into the Object Oriented database field?

As a matter of fact, they have. Oracle 9i is specifically geared to be an object-oriented system.

Did anyone else read the headline as

[2names]

an INMATE PORTRAIT?

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[I8TheWorm]

And one of these days they'll figure out how to keep from fragging the ORacle DB filesystem when tables are refreshed... man, setting EXTENTS is ludicrous!

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[Anonymous Coward]

He invented Linux, you silly!

Re:Ethical?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. This site exists to "pilliary" (pillory) Microsoft.

Mod parent up and grandparent down

[aardwolf204]

Mod parent up and grandparent down

I was so totally wrong. I stand corrected.

but then again, isn't the best part of standards the variety to choose from?

Re:Mod parent up and grandparent down

[Lemmeoutada Collecti]

You were'nt very wrong at all, just more forward thinking than most. The thing is, carpentry (a centuries old profession) started out just like OSS, with each person having their own way of doing things. Later, as something worked better, more people started using it. Once it had caught on, it became a de facto standard. Much later, groups were started to catalogue existing standards and create new ones.

But at no point does having a standard prevent a carpented from using an angle grinder to modify a hammer to work exactly the way he wants, then share that mod with other carpenters. If it works well, it too becomes a standard. And the carpenters have more choice, from very specialized tools (like a jig, for one purpose) to very generalized tools (like the hammer.)

The key difference, and where the analogy fails, is that the carpenters did not start out with the idea of designing a 'standard' hammer, they started out with a nail that needed to be driven, and created a tool to do just that. Later, the best variations became the standard through a genetic algorythm. In software, we have the option of designing a standard, then refining it, then building the standard hammer based on that.

Then the genetic festival begins, mutations through forking, evolutionary generations, parental merging of projects. By the end, what we hope to have is a polished, finished product that can continue to evolve. The lacking function (or NP hard problem) is the selector function. Often in software's case, the selector results in a local optimum, software that works the way a particular group wants or needs.

Of course, considering the specifications requirement for a global audience, I think any such selector function would be on par with the computational complexity of Go. The best result to be expected is a varying set of local optimums. The beauty of OSS is that this is an acceptable answer in many cases, as each optimum can be further tuned for specific application.

The local optimum that will often be missed by this function, however, is the indiscriminate selector, i.e. Joe Sixpack. Because the evolution forces are selecting for and evolving/mutating primarily for function and efficiency, they are necessarily pruning against ease of use and simplicity. These forces value the customizability, flexibility, and pure raw computational power above the eye candy. This is primarily due to the Joe Sixpack taking no interest in the evolution of the software, leaving a set of criteria out of the selector pool.

The evolutionary forces (developers,) can draw this indiscriminate selector into the pool. The question that still is unanswered is will they, and how.

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

[SuperKendall]

Doesn't Siebel run on top of Oracle? It has it's own schema and DB of course that you are Never Ever To Touch, but it still sits over Oracle...

I think Larry Ellison is laughing all the way to the bank on that one.

I'm not so sure what Siebel is doing has long term viability anyway - I've not read Ellison's comments on them but it seems like the need for Siebel is evaporating.

Re:Correct me if I'm wrong but...

[kberg108]

Siebel can also run on top of MSSQL. But most people run it with Oracle for obvious reasons. So I think you're right he is laughing all the way to the bank. Besides what makes you think that Larry doesn't own a piece of Siebel right? Good ole boys always keep it in the network.

Recovery. Plain and simple.

[emil]

In Oracle, I can "recover database until time mm/dd/yy:hh:mm:ss" (or at least the syntax is close). Assuming that you have all the backups and archived logs, you can bring the database back to any point in time. This is a very well documented procedure, and quite handy for recovering a dropped table.

PostgreSQL has some similar feature (called Write Ahead Logging). I don't know much about it, but the Postgres people would be jumping up and down about it if it were as rock solid as Oracle.

Oracle also has lots of other technologies that add bonus points to the database (plsql, the new flashback, RAC, decode), but point-in-time recovery is the clincher.

Larry owes me time in that Garden

[byterbit]

As a Sr. Oracle DBA who has experience on a variety of Database systems as well as coding, architecture, and QA, I must say that Larry owes me time in that Garden of his.

Oracle is built like a GM car in 1972 - badly. It started as a powerful database engine that has now got so much... crap... tacked onto it that is a kludgy mess. Larry wants to be the next Enterprise System of Everything (tm). It's rather like going back to IBM in the sixties - one system, one shop, one software, one hefty price.

A running joke in California is the established list of consultant fees for the State Government. Oracle has the highest rate per hour. The next highest consultant fees are for Nobel Prize-winning think tank consultants.

Larry was THE man with THE right answer at THE right time - a powerful database with SQL that resided on multiple platforms of the day. His salesmanship has parlied it into Software #2. But is his vision anything more than Market Hype nowadays?

Oracle is still plagued by Theta style (WHERE clause) joins, while SQL Server has used JOIN systex. To get Oracle to run well and keep it running requires a lot of knowledge, much of it "tribal". I personally don't mind it much, as being a "high priest" of oracle secrets keeps me employed and my databases running.

I am encouraged by Larry's continued support of Java and simplifying his price schedule, but how much of this is in reaction to the SQL Server threat?

Quite honestly, I find SQL Server a breeze to work with compared to oracle - and most of my fellow DBS's have agreed with me (well, 4 out of 5).

This rant ends, as mine always do, with a trip to the bathroom.

Re:Larry owes me time in that Garden

[rohar]

You are a fucking idiot, not a Sr. Oracle DBA.

Re:Larry owes me time in that Garden

[rohar]

Woops.. I was just thinking that, I must have accidentally telekinetically posted it. :)

Re:Larry owes me time in that Garden

[pkesel]

Glad you took credit(blame) for that. I thought maybe I had tone the telekinetic posting myself.

Re:Larry owes me time in that Garden

[Dave500]

I aggree with this - I find the architecture of Oracle very creaky - there is no clean abstraction of some of its components. This results in a "bolt on" feel.

Sybase ASE and Ms SQL have very clean system schemas - you get a feeling for how the system works just by looking at the relational diagram for them. (Ms have broken theirs a bit since they inherited ASE, but I digress.)

Oracle on the other hand is so non intuative that most of the useful system tables are really views to hide the real mess underneath... ;)

That said, nobody can deny that once its up and running, the Oracle does work very well and is quite amazingly tolerant of poorly written SQL and Cursors. (Cursors IMHO break the whole relational idea, but I digress.) Its certainly its biggest strength after MVCC.

I really must find the time to look at Postgres or MySQL with the appropiate ACID moduled compiled in. Would people care to comment on how these look?

Amusingly enough, I too am now off to the bathroom.. ;)

Re:Larry owes me time in that Garden

[bakes]

I am encouraged by Larry's continued support of Java and simplifying his price schedule...

I agree. I am also encouraged by his company allowing me to freely download a very large selection of the software (RDBMS & dev tools in particular) to play with, or for development/testing. Years ago they jealously guarded any and all CD's with Oracle software on them and it was hell trying to get hold of the database for personal use - nowadays you can download and use much of it for free (you have to pay to use it in a production environment, of course).

Darnit

[ReadParse]

I clicked through hoping to see an "intimate portrait of Larry Ellison". Come on, guys... when you advertise pr0n you should deliver, especially when it's somebody as sexy as Britney Spears or Larry Ellison :)

RP

Re:Darnit

[weeboo0104]

I clicked through hoping to see an "intimate portrait of Larry Ellison".

I think you can find a picture of Larry on the goatse.cx domain.

Re:sucky sucky, $24.95 at amazon.com

[zontroll]

Amazon denies charging different prices for different users
Also, both your article and this Amazon response are over 3 years old... do we know what is true now?

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with you for the most part on this. However, the cost of Oracle is too overwhelming for second and third tier customers.

The cost of Oracle in an Active/Passive mode on IA32 cost twice as much as MS SQL Server.

It's a great database, but it is pricing itself out of the market right now.

Ewwwww is right

[mowo]

but like not being able to NOT look at the sight of a car wreck, I scrolled on...

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[MattRog]

For every point you make I can illustrate two which are perversely backwards.

For example, Oracle was one of the last DBMS products to include a cost-based optimizer, something Sybase ASE/MS SQL Server/DB2 had long before.

For the longest time (far longer than competitors) Oracle's method of backing up and restoring databases was a three-day course.

Oracle has all but eliminated the standard 'VARCHAR' data type for the non-standard VARCHAR2 (and other *2).

Oracle's optimizer, through 8i, was insanely stupid for many queries that involved joins. Updating statistics (for index selection etc.) is still significantly more difficult and cumbersome than competitors.

Oracle 8i and 9i requires significantly more DBA resources to administer than other DBMS's.

With so much emphasis on 'self healing' (which still requires a significant amount of DBA intervention) you think that it would become easier to administrate, but I guess not.

Of course, I don't think Oracle is a crappy product. Working with it pays my bills - but God's gift to the world it aint.

If they truly wanted to innovate, they'd implement more of the relational model and save a lot of headaches from both end users and DBAs!!

And nobody uses the mainframe anymore right?

[EvictedHellCitizen]

Oracle is still the #2 software company in the world in revenues. Obviously, business continue spending 'riciculous amounts of money on licenses' each year because apart from DB2, there is little other choice in relational database technology when dealing with VLDBs (very large databases). True you have new options, such as NCR Terradata built for data warehousing, but the flexibility is limited. For the most part, Oracle exists for enterprise, and it does what it does better than anyone else aside from DB2. Hardware and software business dying? I think not. Simply observe the usage of mainframe systems that still exist. Oracle is sales driven--they will alter their sales model based on business. Once Microsoft SQL server and others catch up to the enterprise level, we'll see what happens with Oracle's pricing. I think your prediction does not reflect historical trends of the past.

Re:sucky sucky, $24.95 at amazon.com

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he just forgot his Jeff Bezos kneepads, and so is getting it up the wazoo instead of gulping down Ellison cream.

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[autopr0n]

This is just the start - I'm not even touching on some of the data representation things they've done with the database and application server. While Oracle made a very smart move porting to Linux, they continue to be leaders in pushing Linux forward as an enterprise platform, even working around Linux's limitations where they feel they have to.

It'd be better if they fixed Linux's limitations, of course :P. The downside there is that they would either need to get their stuff installed or fork Linux, which they probably don't want to do.

Oh bite me

[autopr0n]

It's better to have them coming here then the jobs going over there for even cheaper. Anyway, anyone whining about not making $60k/year is just pathetic. Look at the world and see how most of us (human beings) get to live. Anyone who thinks the world owes them a BMW because of where they were born gets no sympathy from me.

Damn Straight!

[autopr0n]

And not only that, Companies on NYSE should only hire New Yorkers!

Oh wait, that dosn't make any damn sense.

the same people that sell Apache and Linux, maybe?

[autopr0n]

The coders at Oracle are good, and they might be able to keep their product much better then Postgres for a while. When they can't, they'll probably look at the DB as comoditized and start trying to sell something else.

Yeah, and

[autopr0n]

you I guess didn't hear they stopped doing that, apologized, and refunded everyone who didn't get the lowest price.

Re:sucky sucky, $24.95 at amazon.com

[gcaseye6677]

Seriously, I don't know why people had such a big problem with this. Dynamic pricing is nothing new. Compare gas prices in Texas to prices in California. Or look at the huge variation in prices that people pay for cars. For that matter, when stores have 'sales', prices are lower than they were before and the people who paid full price might feel screwed. As usual, people learn to game the system to get a price that would be lower than it would be otherwise. I don't think Amazon could have screwed people too badly since someone could easily pop open another browser window, search for other online bookstores and buy elsewhere if they see a lower price.

Re:RoadRunner censoring newsgroups!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

What!?!?!? I get most of my porn from the binary newsgroups!!! Say it ain't so!

Fuck the MP3's; I demand porn!

All your data are belong to us!

[aquarian]

It's to scary to move to unfamiliar systems, and costs too much to make the switch. Oracle may be the devil, and an expensive one, but it's the devil most people know.

Re:The irrelevance of Silicon Valley to Larry Elli

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, unlike most of the Valley, they make a profit and that is a BAD THING!!!

Re:Ellison, maniac!

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct. Online backups: first by Informix. Stored procedures: first by Sybase.

Flying after curfew!

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, I wish I knew, I could have tried out my experimental SAM-1000 -- I could have said, "I didn't know it wasn't a terrorist attack, it was AFTER CURFEW, wasn't it?" And besides, he sure sounds like a terrorist ...

Re:plsql

[WhiteDragon]

PostgreSQL does have something like plsql, it's called plpgsql. In addition, there are pl-tcl, pl-perl (yes, you can embed perl in everything) and I think one or two others

Get real

[Anonymous Coward]

This book was obviously a propoganda job favoring Ellison. You would have to be an idiot not to see that.