The government has already confirmed that it is possible. You're basically saying the federal government is wrong. And given that the federal government is the last word on that issue... your point is beyond pointless.
... the point is that even amongst sociopaths, they cooperate. So your point that cats if made intelligent wouldn't cooperate is incorrect. They'd simply need a beneficial relationship.
And the problem with calling people sociopaths is that it has a moral stigma attached to it that is not entirely justified and certainly not relevant to this discussion. A different species isn't a sociopath simply for acting as it instinctually evolved to act. The moral stigma you're attempting to attach to this situation is misplaced.
Explain why you're against asking for voter ID at the polling place but think that's okay at a liquor store? Explain why you favor more security to buy booze then to vote in a national election.
I'm sorry. You have no case and your position on this matter is disappointing. You're effectively protecting systemic voter fraud by preventing even rudimentary security.
First, they were talking about granting citizenship to people in mass. Numbers ranged from 200,000 to 5,000,000. That is why the courts put the stop to it. From the perspective of the courts, Obama has the right to not enforce the law which just shows you how flexible the courts are on the matter. However, he was going beyond that to grant citizenship to people in contradiction of the law. Which is why the courts shut it down.
Second, even in the event that citizenship would not be issued, he was talking about giving them paperwork that is only given to citizens without technically making them citizens. I assume you know something about computers? And thus perhaps something about systems? What happens when credentials that are only given to a specific security group are given to someone outside of that security group? Would you be surprised to realize there were "unintended consequences"? Like perhaps someone with those credentials getting access to things that should only be granted to people within the security group? Well that is exactly what was going to happen.
The IRS said that such people were going to be able to get tax credits despite not paying taxes amongst other fun stuff. And yeah... register to vote. Because they check that with your social and the socials they were being issued weren't special. They weren't marked or ear marked or tagged. They were just socials. Which meant you could use them to register to vote.
As to the system being just fine so no one needs to reform the system... that is precisely what someone would say if they were thriving on the fraud.
Tell you what... why don't we compromise and you allow the system to be reformed? I mean, if it doesn't need to be reformed then you're just letting your neighbor do something for the sake of argument and the end result will be just what we have now. Why stop reform... unless... you need the corruption?
The democrats have been obstructing reform in this portion of our civic system for over a generation. And it has not gone unnoticed.
As to evidence... I am apparently talking to someone that doesn't read the news.
Type "Obama Amnesty Judge" into your search engine of choice. You'll get a whole page of links referring to Obama's bs being so completely out of control that the US Judiciary is putting the brakes on it. Which is f'ing impressive because they rarely involve themselves in such matters unless the government goes WAY beyond its authority.
As to auditing voter registration lists, they are audited but not by the government. They're audited by private citizens and they do find fun names on their like "Mickey Mouse" or dead people that have been voting some how for years.
Surely you must have heard some of the old unions brag about how they would "find" the votes they needed every year. Helps when the Union hall is a polling station. In more then a few cases we've had more votes then are registered in a given county turn up.
You act as if the system is pristine and free from fault... your position baffles me given that even a basic look at the history would show you a litany of fraud going back generations.
First, the primary goal of the system would be to detect non-Newtonian movement. Anything that appears to be propelling itself, changing course, or that is even just new to the system and coming in at some speed would get a proper look with more specialized optics that would be looking specifically at that object.
Second, you're assuming you need to look at everything at once. You just need something that can see it and then is moved around so it is always seeing different things. Take wheel of telescopes and spin them the ring on multiple vectors so that the lenses point in all directions eventually. Video is just a collection of images in sequence. That's all this needs to be... just taking snap shots of everything in intervals. If you time stamps are very accurate you can feed position information into the model and determine if things are moving according the model or not. If they're not, then it probably means you missed something, the model is imperfect, or there are aliens baring down on your little world.
We can spot small asteroids from earth if we know specifically where they are and where to point our telescopes. A system that is constantly sweeping the sky taking snap shots of everything as it goes and integrating those snap shots into its model could very well be viable. There could be sensor shadows behind large masses but nothing is perfect.
You say that but you haven't considered remote surgery. The US army is experimenting with drone surgeons. A soldier carries a backpack, a fellow soldier is wounded, he takes the backpack off and places it on the wound. He then switches it on. It links to a doctor somewhere in the world that controls the drone. With the assistance of the other soldier to act as an onsite nurse, the surgeon can remove bullets, stitch major arteries back together, and close wounds. Instead of a soldier having to wait possibly hours before he can be seen to at a field hospital he can get treatment NOW.
A similar system is being tried in rural Alaska for much the same reason. Little towns in rural alaska and many places around the world can't sustain their own hospital. The population is just too low. They often have a nurse that can set broken bones and prepare people with more serious injuries for a trip to Anchorage etc where there are proper hospitals. But what if instead of doing that you have a surgical robot there that links to either the hospital in Anchorage or anywhere else in the world. Specialists from all over the world could look at the patient and treat him on site without having to fly him all over the world by plane.
Now... consider that value of that on the black market?
Criminal gets in a shootout with the police... he can't go to the hospital. The police are waiting for him there and the doctors report gunshot wounds to the police. Grab one of these things and all you need is some doctor somewhere in the world willing to pilot the thing for a price. No way that isn't going to happen.
And if the doctor is patching up cop killers then he's probably not going to mind putting a wire in a junky's head either.
I knew some PETA fool would show up to whine about my comment.
As to slavery, you could make the same claim now with or without enhanced intelligence. And of course, that is what the PETA twits do... no one cares.
Beyond that, I suggested pushing human intelligence further as well. Which if effective could make normal humans no more intelligent relative to the enhanced then animals are to normal humans.
At which point going by your definition... would it be reasonable for an enhanced human to enslave regular humans if his intelligence were that far beyond them?
And more to the point... if he were that intelligent... how could they stop him.
Which is really what all this boils down to in the end.
Further elaborating on your point, if the animals were capable of taking care of themselves within a civilized society, then I'd have no problem with liberating them. They could own property, have jobs, pay taxes, run for high office... I don't really care so long as they can hack it.
Humans likewise are opportunists... with intelligence they learn to cooperate for mutual gain.
A cat smart enough to know why it is kept around is one that can be bargained with... deliver this many rats and you get this amount of whatever it is you want.
First, who said they won't be citizens? If you make anyone that crosses the border a citizen then they can vote.
Second, citizenship is established by checking Social Security Numbers and Driver's Licenses. Both of these are being issued to non-citizens. And the IRS has already said that loopholes have opened that will allow illegals to register and vote.
If the democrats really didn't want illegals to vote then they'd allow for some investigation of the voter roles. All of that has been blocked by the Democrats. You're not even allowed to ask to see someone's photo ID at the polling place.
Never mind that the local Library, liquor store, or any of a million different places in society ask for ID. But when you wield power over the government to shape law and policy? No ID required.
I wouldn't worry about that. The only way VR is going to get that good is if we have full neural interlinks. And if we have that then the flow can go both ways. You can't have real VR without cyborgs. And cyborgs will be more then just VR users... they'll be drone commanders, neural programmers, and possibly mentally augmented with subordinate AIs.
Till then... VR won't be an issue.
A more credible problem might be people that get a wire put into their brains to stimulate the pleasure centers of their brain. Why by drugs when you can just tickle the part of your brain that makes you happy? That's all the drugs do anyway. It isn't the drugs that get you high but how they interact with the brain. Just force the brain electrically to do what you wanted anyway... Now that would be a problem. Imagine a drug that was cheap after the initial operation... and could put you in a state of complete bliss for days.
The only real issue is that the glands that provide that kind of high aren't designed to operate continuously. So they could burn out and doubtless there would be other issues. But I'd worry about that before I worried about VR.
And I'm sure a baboon would give up some intelligence for a bright blue ass.
Greater intelligence could mean greater capability which could mean wealth and power. And nothing is sexier then wealth and power. Young women will happily jump into bed with a diseased old man if he's rich and powerful enough.
Beyond which, the day is coming when you might just gestate your young in an artificial womb rendering the need to woo or romance or court your mate irrelevant.
Dogs are genetically disposed to imprint on their owners. Imagine a dog that really does understand human language... complete with grammar. Lassie, sort my mail then bring me bills and magazines.
Consider a horse that isn't stupid. Able to know when it is needed, what it is to do, and when it is to leave. And possibly the damn things could be taught to take care of themselves a bit better so that the owners don't have to spend as much time fussing over them.
Imagine cats that are not only bred by instinct to depopulate the rat population in the area but that understand that is why you keep them there. Possibly useful as lookouts etc in ways that they're not today.
And then... people... perhaps this can be stimulated further in a human embryo. They've said our brains won't work much better if made larger but no one has put that little theory to the test. It is possible that a modified human could enjoy a qualitative advantage over normal humans comparable to the advantage normal humans have over chimps. And that sort of advantage is worth the swelled head and sore neck.
California is opening its doors to pretty much anyone from central America at this point... and they tend to be very poor people with no vaccinations, often they've been traveling for awhile under rough conditions, according to the people at the detainee centers these people are riddled with parasites/diseases/wriggling lice just falling out of their hair... etc.
So... whatever you might think about the issue... maybe you're one of those "there's no such thing as an illegal person" people... but this is not safe. California specifically is going through serial outbreaks because this crap is just flowing across the border. At the very least, establish an Ellis Island type quarantine facility so that they can get hosed off and deloused.
And I'll note for fun that if Americans decided to just show up in Mexico expecting to be housed, fed, treated for medical conditions without payment, etc the Mexicans would at best put those americans on a bus, dump them at the border, and then send the US government a bill for the service. Suggesting that this is not okay is not racism etc... no country in its right mind would put up with this crap.
Literally the only reason we are doing this is because the democrats are running out of US citizens that actually want to vote for them. So they're importing voters and pretty much breaking every rule on the books to do it. I'm not saying that if you're a democrat that you're a scummy person. You're probably my neighbor and I'm not mad at you. But the people pushing this at a high level are scummy people. They're used to buying elections and since that isn't working as well as it used to they're importing voters. Its pretty disgraceful.
... which means what for Google's bottom line? What is the ad revenue in Russia at this point? I'm guessing it is less then what google gets from Spain. So... who cares.
First off, who says it needs to be on the earth at all?
Second off, you just need enough resolution that something in the solar system takes up a single pixel. It doesn't need any detail. Just enough to pick up motion.
Third off, I am aware it is a huge undertaking. However, ideally you could give it multiple purposes. the reason it is considered too expensive is largely because the threat is not credible. The trick would be to give the system enough other uses that justified the system indifferent to alien invasion. If Alien invasion were credible... then such a system would be quite feasible. Look at the money we spend on the military as it is... imagine if a good portion of that were directed towards little green men. You'd be surprised how far that goes.
Slashdot Mirror
The government has already confirmed that it is possible. You're basically saying the federal government is wrong. And given that the federal government is the last word on that issue... your point is beyond pointless.
A distinction without meaning.
... the point is that even amongst sociopaths, they cooperate. So your point that cats if made intelligent wouldn't cooperate is incorrect. They'd simply need a beneficial relationship.
And the problem with calling people sociopaths is that it has a moral stigma attached to it that is not entirely justified and certainly not relevant to this discussion. A different species isn't a sociopath simply for acting as it instinctually evolved to act. The moral stigma you're attempting to attach to this situation is misplaced.
Explain why you're against asking for voter ID at the polling place but think that's okay at a liquor store? Explain why you favor more security to buy booze then to vote in a national election.
I'm sorry. You have no case and your position on this matter is disappointing. You're effectively protecting systemic voter fraud by preventing even rudimentary security.
More peta people...
And?
First, they were talking about granting citizenship to people in mass. Numbers ranged from 200,000 to 5,000,000. That is why the courts put the stop to it. From the perspective of the courts, Obama has the right to not enforce the law which just shows you how flexible the courts are on the matter. However, he was going beyond that to grant citizenship to people in contradiction of the law. Which is why the courts shut it down.
Second, even in the event that citizenship would not be issued, he was talking about giving them paperwork that is only given to citizens without technically making them citizens. I assume you know something about computers? And thus perhaps something about systems? What happens when credentials that are only given to a specific security group are given to someone outside of that security group? Would you be surprised to realize there were "unintended consequences"? Like perhaps someone with those credentials getting access to things that should only be granted to people within the security group? Well that is exactly what was going to happen.
The IRS said that such people were going to be able to get tax credits despite not paying taxes amongst other fun stuff. And yeah... register to vote. Because they check that with your social and the socials they were being issued weren't special. They weren't marked or ear marked or tagged. They were just socials. Which meant you could use them to register to vote.
As to the system being just fine so no one needs to reform the system... that is precisely what someone would say if they were thriving on the fraud.
Tell you what ... why don't we compromise and you allow the system to be reformed? I mean, if it doesn't need to be reformed then you're just letting your neighbor do something for the sake of argument and the end result will be just what we have now. Why stop reform... unless... you need the corruption?
The democrats have been obstructing reform in this portion of our civic system for over a generation. And it has not gone unnoticed.
As to evidence... I am apparently talking to someone that doesn't read the news.
Type "Obama Amnesty Judge" into your search engine of choice. You'll get a whole page of links referring to Obama's bs being so completely out of control that the US Judiciary is putting the brakes on it. Which is f'ing impressive because they rarely involve themselves in such matters unless the government goes WAY beyond its authority.
As to auditing voter registration lists, they are audited but not by the government. They're audited by private citizens and they do find fun names on their like "Mickey Mouse" or dead people that have been voting some how for years.
Surely you must have heard some of the old unions brag about how they would "find" the votes they needed every year. Helps when the Union hall is a polling station. In more then a few cases we've had more votes then are registered in a given county turn up.
You act as if the system is pristine and free from fault... your position baffles me given that even a basic look at the history would show you a litany of fraud going back generations.
First, the primary goal of the system would be to detect non-Newtonian movement. Anything that appears to be propelling itself, changing course, or that is even just new to the system and coming in at some speed would get a proper look with more specialized optics that would be looking specifically at that object.
Second, you're assuming you need to look at everything at once. You just need something that can see it and then is moved around so it is always seeing different things. Take wheel of telescopes and spin them the ring on multiple vectors so that the lenses point in all directions eventually. Video is just a collection of images in sequence. That's all this needs to be... just taking snap shots of everything in intervals. If you time stamps are very accurate you can feed position information into the model and determine if things are moving according the model or not. If they're not, then it probably means you missed something, the model is imperfect, or there are aliens baring down on your little world.
We can spot small asteroids from earth if we know specifically where they are and where to point our telescopes. A system that is constantly sweeping the sky taking snap shots of everything as it goes and integrating those snap shots into its model could very well be viable. There could be sensor shadows behind large masses but nothing is perfect.
It would also be very green... running on apples and cuddles.
You say that but you haven't considered remote surgery. The US army is experimenting with drone surgeons. A soldier carries a backpack, a fellow soldier is wounded, he takes the backpack off and places it on the wound. He then switches it on. It links to a doctor somewhere in the world that controls the drone. With the assistance of the other soldier to act as an onsite nurse, the surgeon can remove bullets, stitch major arteries back together, and close wounds. Instead of a soldier having to wait possibly hours before he can be seen to at a field hospital he can get treatment NOW.
A similar system is being tried in rural Alaska for much the same reason. Little towns in rural alaska and many places around the world can't sustain their own hospital. The population is just too low. They often have a nurse that can set broken bones and prepare people with more serious injuries for a trip to Anchorage etc where there are proper hospitals. But what if instead of doing that you have a surgical robot there that links to either the hospital in Anchorage or anywhere else in the world. Specialists from all over the world could look at the patient and treat him on site without having to fly him all over the world by plane.
Now... consider that value of that on the black market?
Criminal gets in a shootout with the police... he can't go to the hospital. The police are waiting for him there and the doctors report gunshot wounds to the police. Grab one of these things and all you need is some doctor somewhere in the world willing to pilot the thing for a price. No way that isn't going to happen.
And if the doctor is patching up cop killers then he's probably not going to mind putting a wire in a junky's head either.
You can't stop it. Don't even try.
A large number of births happen by caesarian already and we quite near to have effective artificial wombs. So... it doesn't especially matter.
Remember where I said "lets make the cows, chickens, pigs, etc" smarter?
Me neither.
What facts would you like, mr Anonymous Coward?
And as to facts... what did I lie about? To say I didn't offer supporting evidence is one thing. To charge me with lying is another.
The first does not put any burden on you to provide evidence. The second requires YOU to back up the charge that I lied.
What did I lie about, mr AC? And while you're at it... sign in so I can note the fake name of my accuser. :-)
I knew some PETA fool would show up to whine about my comment.
As to slavery, you could make the same claim now with or without enhanced intelligence. And of course, that is what the PETA twits do... no one cares.
Beyond that, I suggested pushing human intelligence further as well. Which if effective could make normal humans no more intelligent relative to the enhanced then animals are to normal humans.
At which point going by your definition... would it be reasonable for an enhanced human to enslave regular humans if his intelligence were that far beyond them?
And more to the point... if he were that intelligent... how could they stop him.
Which is really what all this boils down to in the end.
Further elaborating on your point, if the animals were capable of taking care of themselves within a civilized society, then I'd have no problem with liberating them. They could own property, have jobs, pay taxes, run for high office... I don't really care so long as they can hack it.
Humans likewise are opportunists... with intelligence they learn to cooperate for mutual gain.
A cat smart enough to know why it is kept around is one that can be bargained with... deliver this many rats and you get this amount of whatever it is you want.
First, who said they won't be citizens? If you make anyone that crosses the border a citizen then they can vote.
Second, citizenship is established by checking Social Security Numbers and Driver's Licenses. Both of these are being issued to non-citizens. And the IRS has already said that loopholes have opened that will allow illegals to register and vote.
If the democrats really didn't want illegals to vote then they'd allow for some investigation of the voter roles. All of that has been blocked by the Democrats. You're not even allowed to ask to see someone's photo ID at the polling place.
Never mind that the local Library, liquor store, or any of a million different places in society ask for ID. But when you wield power over the government to shape law and policy? No ID required.
Who the fuck do you think you're fooling?
I wouldn't worry about that. The only way VR is going to get that good is if we have full neural interlinks. And if we have that then the flow can go both ways. You can't have real VR without cyborgs. And cyborgs will be more then just VR users... they'll be drone commanders, neural programmers, and possibly mentally augmented with subordinate AIs.
Till then... VR won't be an issue.
A more credible problem might be people that get a wire put into their brains to stimulate the pleasure centers of their brain. Why by drugs when you can just tickle the part of your brain that makes you happy? That's all the drugs do anyway. It isn't the drugs that get you high but how they interact with the brain. Just force the brain electrically to do what you wanted anyway... Now that would be a problem. Imagine a drug that was cheap after the initial operation... and could put you in a state of complete bliss for days.
The only real issue is that the glands that provide that kind of high aren't designed to operate continuously. So they could burn out and doubtless there would be other issues. But I'd worry about that before I worried about VR.
Men without arms can do it with their nose. Food for thought.
And I'm sure a baboon would give up some intelligence for a bright blue ass.
Greater intelligence could mean greater capability which could mean wealth and power. And nothing is sexier then wealth and power. Young women will happily jump into bed with a diseased old man if he's rich and powerful enough.
Beyond which, the day is coming when you might just gestate your young in an artificial womb rendering the need to woo or romance or court your mate irrelevant.
Strange days are coming, friend.
Dogs are genetically disposed to imprint on their owners. Imagine a dog that really does understand human language... complete with grammar. Lassie, sort my mail then bring me bills and magazines.
Consider a horse that isn't stupid. Able to know when it is needed, what it is to do, and when it is to leave. And possibly the damn things could be taught to take care of themselves a bit better so that the owners don't have to spend as much time fussing over them.
Imagine cats that are not only bred by instinct to depopulate the rat population in the area but that understand that is why you keep them there. Possibly useful as lookouts etc in ways that they're not today.
And then... people... perhaps this can be stimulated further in a human embryo. They've said our brains won't work much better if made larger but no one has put that little theory to the test. It is possible that a modified human could enjoy a qualitative advantage over normal humans comparable to the advantage normal humans have over chimps. And that sort of advantage is worth the swelled head and sore neck.
California is opening its doors to pretty much anyone from central America at this point... and they tend to be very poor people with no vaccinations, often they've been traveling for awhile under rough conditions, according to the people at the detainee centers these people are riddled with parasites/diseases/wriggling lice just falling out of their hair... etc.
So... whatever you might think about the issue... maybe you're one of those "there's no such thing as an illegal person" people... but this is not safe. California specifically is going through serial outbreaks because this crap is just flowing across the border. At the very least, establish an Ellis Island type quarantine facility so that they can get hosed off and deloused.
And I'll note for fun that if Americans decided to just show up in Mexico expecting to be housed, fed, treated for medical conditions without payment, etc the Mexicans would at best put those americans on a bus, dump them at the border, and then send the US government a bill for the service. Suggesting that this is not okay is not racism etc... no country in its right mind would put up with this crap.
Literally the only reason we are doing this is because the democrats are running out of US citizens that actually want to vote for them. So they're importing voters and pretty much breaking every rule on the books to do it. I'm not saying that if you're a democrat that you're a scummy person. You're probably my neighbor and I'm not mad at you. But the people pushing this at a high level are scummy people. They're used to buying elections and since that isn't working as well as it used to they're importing voters. Its pretty disgraceful.
And also a health concern apparently.
Its the worst case. And the issue is what online revenue is worth in Russia. I rather suspect it is marginal on google's bottom line.
... which means what for Google's bottom line? What is the ad revenue in Russia at this point? I'm guessing it is less then what google gets from Spain. So... who cares.
First off, who says it needs to be on the earth at all?
Second off, you just need enough resolution that something in the solar system takes up a single pixel. It doesn't need any detail. Just enough to pick up motion.
Third off, I am aware it is a huge undertaking. However, ideally you could give it multiple purposes. the reason it is considered too expensive is largely because the threat is not credible. The trick would be to give the system enough other uses that justified the system indifferent to alien invasion. If Alien invasion were credible... then such a system would be quite feasible. Look at the money we spend on the military as it is... imagine if a good portion of that were directed towards little green men. You'd be surprised how far that goes.