I was talking about U5/U10 models (which I use every day too).
Ultra2 costs +$10000 U450 costs +$20000 depending on RAM, disks and processors.
But as a general purpose workstations SUNs will die very soon (at least in universities). There are lots of people who are willing to pay $5000 or less for a decent desktop workstation. In bellow $10000 price range sun hardware just sucks compared to PCs. What (useful) can a $3000 Ultra5 do that a PC that costs _less_ can't? Horrible graphics, phorrible disks, and not so impressive CPU
It is not worth even $1400. It comes with no CD ROM drive, a 5400rpm _ide_ disk (most current PCs ship with +10gig 7200rpm ATA/66 disks), no monitor and very below-average 4 meg video. How much would I pay for a PC with a Kick ass CPU and sucky components and no monitor? Less than $1000..
Come on SparcStation5 is really old. The current models (Ultra5/Ultra10) are much faster (UIIi CPUS from 333mhz to 440mhz). But they are still somewhat overpriced.
Seriously, though, it's hard to beat Sun at the really high end. Solaris can be pretty slow on those low end systems, but it scales really well
The problem is not with solaris on low-end systems. The problem is iwht the low-end-systems themsleves. As mentioned above, U5/10 come with totally braindead graphics (unless you buy a rediculously expensive card for U10, but not U5) and sucky disk systems. The kind of hardware that I expect to pay $1000 for on the PC market. Not the $3000 to $6000 range that sun wants you to pay.
Wake up, Ultra5 and Ultra10 come with IDE (not SCSI!) drives. And the kinds of IDE they use is even slower than PCs (usually ATA/66 7200 disks).
Plus, the ultra5/10 have 4meg video memory this is rediculous. Their processors aren't that great either. How much would you pay for PC with this much hardware? Less than $1000 probably.
But SUN wants you to pay $2000 for a lemmon with no monitor, no cd rom and only 64mb of ram.
Wake up, Ultra5 and Ultra10 come with IDE (not SCSI!) drives. And the kinds of IDE they use is even slower than PCs (usually ATA/66 7200 disks). Plus, the ultra5/10 have 4meg video memory this is rediculous. Their processors aren't that great either. How much would you pay for PC with this much hardware? Less than $1000 probably. But SUN wants you to pay $2000 for a lemmon with no monitor, no cd rom and only 64mb of ram.
Now, can they stop selling these rediculously overpriced and surprisingly underpowered lemmons known as Ultra5 and Ultra10 and make a _real_ workstation that doesn't suck even when compared to PCs?
Don't forget that Debian Linux as of potato release will support i386, sparc, alpha, PPC, and m68k. They also have unstable ports to ARM, MIPS and sparc64 (though sparc port runs fine on sparc64 machines in 32 bit mode). Just Debian Linux is huge, Hurd. well.
I think the Debian/FreeBSD was a bad idea. It will only increase archive bloat and arguably be more work for developers. As a Debian GNU/Linux users I don't see any advantages that Debian/FreeBSD will give me. If I want FreeBSD I run FreeBSD. Debian/FreeBSD is a bad deal, really..
Full OpenBSD distribution is available on FTP, if you have tools, NOTHING stops you from making your own _bootable_ OpenBSD ISO image, I have done that, it took 5 minutes to figure out how.
3. Now from the GNU Hurd to Debianizing FreeBSD. My only question is: Why? Does this help improve the state of the world or simply help glorify Debian itself? I don't see a practical reason for doing this
What did you expect? Hurd was intended as a free UNIX clone, just like linux. It is just a kernel, there shouldn't be any differences above the kernel in the user space.
Ever heard of 64 CPU SUN E10k ? It runs unix Ever heard of 128 CPU SGI O2000? It runs unix.
Linux AND NT are both jokes for multiprocessor systems. If you want fast reliale multiprocessor system use Solaris or Irix. Linux, NT and *BSD suck at that.
Actually, the SUN's StarOffice does rip the look'n'feel of the MS Office. I was really wondering why MS does not sue them. I mean it is a complete MS Office lookalike.
In terms of modern hardware, Linux supports at _least_ as much as openbsd if not more. UltraSparcs and SGI Indy are examples of Linux, and not-*BSD, supported platforms. However if you got something _very_ old, like SUN 3 or VAX or old decstation (they are so slow that they all belong in a garbage collector imho) then you can run NetBSD on them...
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Cool, but the rough kernel support doesn't cut it. Someone must make a Linux distribution for S/390 to make this port useful
I was talking about U5/U10 models (which I use every day too).
Ultra2 costs +$10000
U450 costs +$20000 depending on RAM, disks and processors.
But as a general purpose workstations SUNs will die very soon (at least in universities). There are lots of people who are willing to pay $5000 or less for a decent desktop workstation. In bellow $10000 price range sun hardware just sucks compared to PCs. What (useful) can a $3000 Ultra5 do that a PC that costs _less_ can't? Horrible graphics, phorrible disks, and not so impressive CPU
It is not worth even $1400. It comes with no CD ROM drive, a 5400rpm _ide_ disk (most current PCs ship with +10gig 7200rpm ATA/66 disks), no monitor and very below-average 4 meg video. How much would I pay for a PC with a Kick ass CPU and sucky components and no monitor? Less than $1000..
Come on SparcStation5 is really old.
The current models (Ultra5/Ultra10) are much faster (UIIi CPUS from 333mhz to 440mhz). But they are still somewhat overpriced.
Seriously, though, it's hard to beat Sun at the really high end. Solaris can be pretty slow on those low end systems, but it scales really well
The problem is not with solaris on low-end systems. The problem is iwht the low-end-systems themsleves. As mentioned above, U5/10 come with totally braindead graphics (unless you buy a rediculously expensive card for U10, but not U5)
and sucky disk systems. The kind of hardware that I expect to pay $1000 for on the PC market. Not the $3000 to $6000 range that sun wants you to pay.
Wake up, Ultra5 and Ultra10 come with IDE (not SCSI!) drives. And the kinds of IDE they use is even slower than PCs (usually ATA/66 7200 disks).
Plus, the ultra5/10 have 4meg video memory this is rediculous. Their processors aren't that great either. How much would you pay for PC with this much hardware? Less than $1000 probably.
But SUN wants you to pay $2000 for a lemmon with no monitor, no cd rom and only 64mb of ram.
Wake up, Ultra5 and Ultra10 come with IDE (not SCSI!) drives. And the kinds of IDE they use is even slower than PCs (usually ATA/66 7200 disks).
Plus, the ultra5/10 have 4meg video memory this is rediculous. Their processors aren't that great either. How much would you pay for PC with this much hardware? Less than $1000 probably.
But SUN wants you to pay $2000 for a lemmon with no monitor, no cd rom and only 64mb of ram.
Now, can they stop selling these rediculously overpriced and surprisingly underpowered lemmons known as Ultra5 and Ultra10 and make a _real_ workstation that doesn't suck even when compared to PCs?
As soon as they finish I will port it to my Mac ..
They've got Debian Linux, HURD, and FreeBSD,
..
Don't forget that Debian Linux as of potato release will support i386, sparc, alpha, PPC, and m68k. They also have unstable ports to ARM, MIPS and sparc64 (though sparc port runs fine on sparc64 machines in 32 bit mode). Just Debian Linux is huge, Hurd. well.
I think the Debian/FreeBSD was a bad idea. It will only increase archive bloat and arguably be more work for developers. As a Debian GNU/Linux users I don't see any advantages that Debian/FreeBSD will give me. If I want FreeBSD I run FreeBSD. Debian/FreeBSD is a bad deal, really
Debian uses ncurses based GUI during installation. ncurses IS a library for GUIs. What is wrong with ncurses?
The whole distribution is on ftp. .ISO image.
If you have the bandwidth and a cd burner, nothing stops you from making your own bootable
Full OpenBSD distribution is available on FTP, if you have tools, NOTHING stops you from making your own _bootable_ OpenBSD ISO image, I have done that, it took 5 minutes to figure out how.
I wouldn't hire a sysadmin who configures sendmail with linuxconf
I would like to know what does Mr. Debian do with all the money that he gets from selling Debian CDs.
3. Now from the GNU Hurd to Debianizing FreeBSD. My only question is: Why? Does this help improve the state of the world or simply help glorify Debian itself? I don't see a practical reason for doing this
What did you expect? Hurd was intended as a free UNIX clone, just like linux. It is just a kernel, there shouldn't be any differences above the kernel in the user space.
and potato is still going to be based on 2.0.x kernels.
eww, check your facts before posting.
Subject says it all. IE and Netscape are free pretty much. If these guys expect to _sell_ this thing, I wish them luck.
Ever heard of 64 CPU SUN E10k ? It runs unix
Ever heard of 128 CPU SGI O2000? It runs unix.
Linux AND NT are both jokes for multiprocessor systems. If you want fast reliale multiprocessor system use Solaris or Irix. Linux, NT and *BSD suck at that.
Actually, the SUN's StarOffice does rip the look'n'feel of the MS Office. I was really wondering why MS does not sue them. I mean it is a complete MS Office lookalike.
I agree mostly but ...
Would be a challenge to retrain end users to use a different product.
I don't think any training is needed at all..
StarOffice rips off MS Office's look'n'feel. If you know MS Office, you can use StarOffice.
--
You can run NetBSD on more platforms.
...
In terms of modern hardware, Linux supports at _least_ as much as openbsd if not more. UltraSparcs and SGI Indy are examples of Linux, and not-*BSD, supported platforms.
However if you got something _very_ old, like SUN 3 or VAX or old decstation (they are so slow that they all belong in a garbage collector imho) then you can run NetBSD on them