Just so you know, "emerge -u samba" took less than two hours on an old COMPAC iPAQ 500Mh computer with 128M of RAM. In order to take 6 months, perhaps a C-64
is too fast?
Well, I noticed that "emerge -u world" was finished sometime between noon on Thursday and noon on Friday. So, let's say it took 70-80 hours to complete. This computer is a 500 Mh iPAQ with 128M of RAM. Now onto emerging samba.
"sounds like you haven't spent much time in atlanta;-)"
I have spent too much time in the Atlanta airport and it sucks:-)
No one has asked me for a carbonated drink (by any name) in Atlanta so I do not know what they call a "Pepsi" there. (I will ask a friend from Georgia Tech. when I see one of them next.) At many fast food restaurants (e.g. CA, DC, OH, TX), a customer who orders a "coke" gets the restaurant's "cola" without question (although some will ask "Is a Pepsi OK?").
Anyway, who cares? I'm afraid of the day that MS patents oxygen.
Still emerging -u world - so far about 4 hours and 20 minutes (approximately). (I told you it was a slow computer and I was REALLY behind in updating this box. I only use it for slashdot (and web surfing) and to ssh into my office computers.)
"Frankly though, typing emerge -u samba (if say, it was a samba bug) takes about 6 months to complete on some of my less capable machines."
I always wondered where those C-64s went.
I am using an old machine (slow COMPAQ iPAQ - paid $60 for it last year) and decided to see how slow is portage. I have not been keeping this machine current so I decided to update portage ("emerge portage"). Let me check... all done. (Took 1 or 2 minutes; I was not paying attention (different session (?) - F1 vs. F7).) Now let me try "emerge -u world" and see what happens. I do not use samba but, if it will make you happy, I will "emerge samba" after that and see if it takes 6 months. I'll report back on the (approximate) time required.
"They really do respond quickly, usually the first time I hear of a new exploit is when automatic update prompts me to download and isntall it. Usually a few days before it's posted on Slashdot for the second time."
Let me be honest; from your previous posts I think there is a possibility that you are a MS employee trying to make XP look good. I may be completely wrong (or not). Anyway, it is hard to take you seriously. I think we all know about bugs MS was told about and did nothing about for months (or longer). This is not to say that your statement is wrong; if you do not pay attention or MS keeps security hole secret, "... usually the first time I hear of a new exploit is when automatic update prompts me to download and isntall it..." is probably true. However, this does not mean that the hole had not existed for a long time.
Anyway, I will reply to this note with times for emerge world and emerge samba (unless there is some issue with samba (for which I have no use and will emerge simply as an exercise) I am forgetting) when I have them. Cheers.
For the user of an installed linux system, why do people feel that s/he would have difficulty?
If you use gentoo, getting and using "updates" or adding new software is easy; portage does the work for you. If you want to "surf the internet" or use e-mail, linux is very easy to use. Please explain this whole issue of ease of use to me.
Where does
hardened Gentoo stand in all of this? I use Gentoo but have not tried hardened Gentoo. SELinux appears to be part of hG. Is Fedora (core 2?) older than hG?
You are free to have an opinion. However, if you want anyone else to agree with your statement "We are one kind of life that has no right to influence any others.", you need to provide some information on your opinion of the nature of "rights."
Lots of societies have "messed up" (e.g. the environment, other cultures) in the past. I can ask some friends/faculty in the Anthro. Dept. for verification but I suspect the (pre-European) natives in North America caused some environmental or social damage in the past.
"The Presidents Space Initiative" is worse than the President's "hydrogen economy". The hydrogen economy may help the environment SOMEDAY; right now, of course, it just lets Bush ignore gasoline efficiency standards in autos. His "Space Initiative" lets him both ignore/underfund many parts of NASA and prepare us to SOMEDAY fly to the moon so we can THEN fly to Mars (very energy efficient). (I do not know if the "Space Initiative" will funnel money to "big" Republicians but who knows?)
"Microsoft has a God given right to couple IE with Windows"
Really. Which god is that? Jewish? Christian? Hindu?... When did god get involved in "free enterprise"?
If "God" exists as a moral being (and this is a question of faith each person has to answer for her/him self), then s/he is likely to be more interested in the moral aspects rather than the commercial aspects of people's behavior. (Remember the story of Jesus and the money changers in the temple?) As for regulating "proper business practice", I believe governments (including the courts) are the proper authorities. The US and EU governments have found that Microsoft has violated "proper business practice." MS has found the money, given to the right people/organizations, can eliminate little details like following the law.
I just read the poem by Carly Sheehan you posted. Independent of politics, this is really sad. One of my graduate students told me yesterday that her former boyfriend hung himself last Saturday; his sister and her husband found him on Monday when they returned from Hawaii. (They cannot stand to be in their house and are already trying to sell it; tough when you bought it last year.) My daughter's best friend went to two funerals last week; some semi driver smashed into their car stopped because of road construction. Bush called up 5000+ members of the "ready reserve"; people who had finished their military service and declined to join the (military) reserves or the national guard but were still called up because they had not served 8 years. I wonder how many of these families are going to mourn because of this call up. ("My son finished his service in the army and came home but they called him up and he was killed.")
In the "old days" (before 1900), I understand that people were really happy and excited when they saw a friend or relative after some time because it was so easy to die; antibiotics and other drugs did not exist, childbirth was very risky, etc. I think we have lost an appreciation of how risky is life and how much we should treasure our family and friends. People I know who lost a son or daughter moved on with their lives but never really recovered from their loss; there is a huge hole which is covered over but never gone. It does not matter if the death was caused by illness (e.g. my grandparents' 6 year old daughter (1930?)), gun accident (e.g. my former in-law's 18 year old son (1977)), suicide, traffic accident, war, drugs, etc.). The only thing you can do is love the people in your life while they are here and live your life to the highest standards that you can. (My dad smoked and died at age 62 of cancer; do not smoke!)
It might be true that there are important linux desktop applications which are BOTH bloated and a hacked mess; I cannot say that I have seen evidence of this, yet, however. My comment "I believe you are misinformed about Linux" refers to the facts about Linux, not to spitzak's impression of Linux.
spitzak's comment "the stuff being forced onto the Linux desktop is as huge of a bloated and hacked mess as anything coming out of Redmond" is a question of fact (and I doubt that very many people would agree with this assertion).
It would be interesting to compare the source code for comparable windows and linux applications and see which is more bloated and hacked.
I believe many people would agree with you. (Do you remember when emacs was ridiculed for its vast size (50M ?)?)
However, I do not think KDE is "hacked"; it works well for me. (I do not use Gnome and cannot comment on it.) What specific issues do you have with KDE?
I assume you have tried Lynx or Links as a web browser. (Actually, I love vim; it is compact and works well.) There are other desktops, of course
(e.g. fvwm, enlightenment).
Actually, numerical computations were done by hand in the past. Various numerical procedures such as SOR (Successive over-relaxation) and ADI (Alternating direction implicit - a Gauss-Seidel method) were developed and used before the "age of computers."
"My impression is that the stuff being forced onto the Linux desktop is as huge of a bloated and hacked mess as anything coming out of Redmond,"
Where do you get this impression? With Linux, you have lots of choices. If you like KDE (as I do), you may have larger files; however, I do not find my desktop to be "a bloated and hacked mess." If you want to save hard drive space, use a smaller desktop or use
Knoppix.
Linux is about allowing you to configure your computer the way you want it. I find that I like gentoo a great deal.
I believe you are misinformed about Linux. If you have specific examples of bloated and hacked desktop applications on Linux, I am curious to hear about them.
"Reagan's policies ended the cold war and saved the U.S. economy"
These are phrases the right-wingers use. They are simplistic and generally incorrect.
Economies are complex beasts which react to many things (trade balance, exchange rates, interest rates, government spending, foreign affairs, advances in technology, government debt, "butterflies", etc.); Carter did not cause the oil embargo or the inflation of the late 1970's and early 1980's and Reagan did not save the U.S. economy.
The cold war is interesting. Stalan wanted to cause trouble (e.g. Berlin airlift, Korea) but after his death, the Soviet Union was ruled by a bunch of bureaucrats (e.g. Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev) whose primary goal was to protect their privileges. Decades of effort by members of both U.S. political parties went into containing the Soviet Union. Economically the Soviet Union was dying. To give Reagan a great deal of credit for the end of the cold war is a joke. If you want to give credit, give it to the citizens of the world (U.S., USSR, etc) who survived this period in history.
"the #1 reason that we suffer so much from MS' operating systems is the homogeneity of the OS market"
If this were true, then Apache should have many more security problems. The fact is that MS OSs are poorly written with respect to security. I do agree with your last comment; when 50% (or fewer) computers run some version of Windows and the remaining computers run other OSs (linux, *BSD, OSX, BeOS, OS 2, "UNIX", etc.), then web page browser support and security problems will be less important (but still very important) issues.
I am sure every app ever written for a MS OS still runs fine under WinXP. All those old DOS programs have no problem running in XP.
Now, are you happy?
"you're a fucktard"
I could be wrong about my comment. However, imagine the reaction at a job interview or at lunch with IT colleagues when it is learned that you stayed with SCO. My guess is that you will get a negative reaction. I was not trying to be mean but simply to point out the (in my opinion) likely reaction to former SCO workers. I would also guess that most current SCO IT workers feel pretty bad about SCO's activities (and I do not want to meet the other ones).
Slashdot Mirror
Just so you know, "emerge -u samba" took less than two hours on an old COMPAC iPAQ 500Mh computer with 128M of RAM. In order to take 6 months, perhaps a C-64 is too fast?
Well, "emerge -u samba" took less than two hours. (I was in the shower and do not know exactly when it finished.)
Well, I noticed that "emerge -u world" was finished sometime between noon on Thursday and noon on Friday. So, let's say it took 70-80 hours to complete. This computer is a 500 Mh iPAQ with 128M of RAM. Now onto emerging samba.
"sounds like you haven't spent much time in atlanta ;-)" :-)
I have spent too much time in the Atlanta airport and it sucks
No one has asked me for a carbonated drink (by any name) in Atlanta so I do not know what they call a "Pepsi" there. (I will ask a friend from Georgia Tech. when I see one of them next.) At many fast food restaurants (e.g. CA, DC, OH, TX), a customer who orders a "coke" gets the restaurant's "cola" without question (although some will ask "Is a Pepsi OK?").
Anyway, who cares? I'm afraid of the day that MS patents oxygen.
Still emerging -u world - so far about 4 hours and 20 minutes (approximately). (I told you it was a slow computer and I was REALLY behind in updating this box. I only use it for slashdot (and web surfing) and to ssh into my office computers.)
"Frankly though, typing emerge -u samba (if say, it was a samba bug) takes about 6 months to complete on some of my less capable machines."
... all done. (Took 1 or 2 minutes; I was not paying attention (different session (?) - F1 vs. F7).) Now let me try "emerge -u world" and see what happens. I do not use samba but, if it will make you happy, I will "emerge samba" after that and see if it takes 6 months. I'll report back on the (approximate) time required.
..." is probably true. However, this does not mean that the hole had not existed for a long time.
I always wondered where those C-64s went.
I am using an old machine (slow COMPAQ iPAQ - paid $60 for it last year) and decided to see how slow is portage. I have not been keeping this machine current so I decided to update portage ("emerge portage"). Let me check
"They really do respond quickly, usually the first time I hear of a new exploit is when automatic update prompts me to download and isntall it. Usually a few days before it's posted on Slashdot for the second time."
Let me be honest; from your previous posts I think there is a possibility that you are a MS employee trying to make XP look good. I may be completely wrong (or not). Anyway, it is hard to take you seriously. I think we all know about bugs MS was told about and did nothing about for months (or longer). This is not to say that your statement is wrong; if you do not pay attention or MS keeps security hole secret, "... usually the first time I hear of a new exploit is when automatic update prompts me to download and isntall it
Anyway, I will reply to this note with times for emerge world and emerge samba (unless there is some issue with samba (for which I have no use and will emerge simply as an exercise) I am forgetting) when I have them. Cheers.
For the user of an installed linux system, why do people feel that s/he would have difficulty?
If you use gentoo, getting and using "updates" or adding new software is easy; portage does the work for you. If you want to "surf the internet" or use e-mail, linux is very easy to use. Please explain this whole issue of ease of use to me.
Where does hardened Gentoo stand in all of this? I use Gentoo but have not tried hardened Gentoo. SELinux appears to be part of hG. Is Fedora (core 2?) older than hG?
You are free to have an opinion. However, if you want anyone else to agree with your statement "We are one kind of life that has no right to influence any others.", you need to provide some information on your opinion of the nature of "rights."
Lots of societies have "messed up" (e.g. the environment, other cultures) in the past. I can ask some friends/faculty in the Anthro. Dept. for verification but I suspect the (pre-European) natives in North America caused some environmental or social damage in the past.
"The Presidents Space Initiative" is worse than the President's "hydrogen economy". The hydrogen economy may help the environment SOMEDAY; right now, of course, it just lets Bush ignore gasoline efficiency standards in autos. His "Space Initiative" lets him both ignore/underfund many parts of NASA and prepare us to SOMEDAY fly to the moon so we can THEN fly to Mars (very energy efficient). (I do not know if the "Space Initiative" will funnel money to "big" Republicians but who knows?)
NASA will accept Canadian money.
"Microsoft has a God given right to couple IE with Windows" ... When did god get involved in "free enterprise"?
Really. Which god is that? Jewish? Christian? Hindu?
If "God" exists as a moral being (and this is a question of faith each person has to answer for her/him self), then s/he is likely to be more interested in the moral aspects rather than the commercial aspects of people's behavior. (Remember the story of Jesus and the money changers in the temple?) As for regulating "proper business practice", I believe governments (including the courts) are the proper authorities. The US and EU governments have found that Microsoft has violated "proper business practice." MS has found the money, given to the right people/organizations, can eliminate little details like following the law.
I have no objection. What I wrote is nothing compared to the poem, however.
My error: ADI was developed in 1955. Sorry.
I just read the poem by Carly Sheehan you posted. Independent of politics, this is really sad. One of my graduate students told me yesterday that her former boyfriend hung himself last Saturday; his sister and her husband found him on Monday when they returned from Hawaii. (They cannot stand to be in their house and are already trying to sell it; tough when you bought it last year.) My daughter's best friend went to two funerals last week; some semi driver smashed into their car stopped because of road construction. Bush called up 5000+ members of the "ready reserve"; people who had finished their military service and declined to join the (military) reserves or the national guard but were still called up because they had not served 8 years. I wonder how many of these families are going to mourn because of this call up. ("My son finished his service in the army and came home but they called him up and he was killed.")
In the "old days" (before 1900), I understand that people were really happy and excited when they saw a friend or relative after some time because it was so easy to die; antibiotics and other drugs did not exist, childbirth was very risky, etc. I think we have lost an appreciation of how risky is life and how much we should treasure our family and friends. People I know who lost a son or daughter moved on with their lives but never really recovered from their loss; there is a huge hole which is covered over but never gone. It does not matter if the death was caused by illness (e.g. my grandparents' 6 year old daughter (1930?)), gun accident (e.g. my former in-law's 18 year old son (1977)), suicide, traffic accident, war, drugs, etc.). The only thing you can do is love the people in your life while they are here and live your life to the highest standards that you can. (My dad smoked and died at age 62 of cancer; do not smoke!)
It might be true that there are important linux desktop applications which are BOTH bloated and a hacked mess; I cannot say that I have seen evidence of this, yet, however. My comment "I believe you are misinformed about Linux" refers to the facts about Linux, not to spitzak's impression of Linux. spitzak's comment "the stuff being forced onto the Linux desktop is as huge of a bloated and hacked mess as anything coming out of Redmond" is a question of fact (and I doubt that very many people would agree with this assertion). It would be interesting to compare the source code for comparable windows and linux applications and see which is more bloated and hacked.
I believe many people would agree with you. (Do you remember when emacs was ridiculed for its vast size (50M ?)?)
However, I do not think KDE is "hacked"; it works well for me. (I do not use Gnome and cannot comment on it.) What specific issues do you have with KDE?
I assume you have tried Lynx or Links as a web browser. (Actually, I love vim; it is compact and works well.) There are other desktops, of course (e.g. fvwm, enlightenment).
Actually, numerical computations were done by hand in the past. Various numerical procedures such as SOR (Successive over-relaxation) and ADI (Alternating direction implicit - a Gauss-Seidel method) were developed and used before the "age of computers."
Did I misunderstand? Is your real (linux) objection to X? (Everyone picks on X.)
"My impression is that the stuff being forced onto the Linux desktop is as huge of a bloated and hacked mess as anything coming out of Redmond,"
Where do you get this impression? With Linux, you have lots of choices. If you like KDE (as I do), you may have larger files; however, I do not find my desktop to be "a bloated and hacked mess." If you want to save hard drive space, use a smaller desktop or use Knoppix. Linux is about allowing you to configure your computer the way you want it. I find that I like gentoo a great deal.
I believe you are misinformed about Linux. If you have specific examples of bloated and hacked desktop applications on Linux, I am curious to hear about them.
"Reagan's policies ended the cold war and saved the U.S. economy"
These are phrases the right-wingers use. They are simplistic and generally incorrect.
Economies are complex beasts which react to many things (trade balance, exchange rates, interest rates, government spending, foreign affairs, advances in technology, government debt, "butterflies", etc.); Carter did not cause the oil embargo or the inflation of the late 1970's and early 1980's and Reagan did not save the U.S. economy.
The cold war is interesting. Stalan wanted to cause trouble (e.g. Berlin airlift, Korea) but after his death, the Soviet Union was ruled by a bunch of bureaucrats (e.g. Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev) whose primary goal was to protect their privileges. Decades of effort by members of both U.S. political parties went into containing the Soviet Union. Economically the Soviet Union was dying. To give Reagan a great deal of credit for the end of the cold war is a joke. If you want to give credit, give it to the citizens of the world (U.S., USSR, etc) who survived this period in history.
"the #1 reason that we suffer so much from MS' operating systems is the homogeneity of the OS market"
If this were true, then Apache should have many more security problems. The fact is that MS OSs are poorly written with respect to security. I do agree with your last comment; when 50% (or fewer) computers run some version of Windows and the remaining computers run other OSs (linux, *BSD, OSX, BeOS, OS 2, "UNIX", etc.), then web page browser support and security problems will be less important (but still very important) issues.
I am sure every app ever written for a MS OS still runs fine under WinXP. All those old DOS programs have no problem running in XP.
Now, are you happy?
Yeah, it is terrible to try to play games under linux. Never Winter Nights and Quake3 will never play on linux ... oh, wait.
"you're a fucktard"
I could be wrong about my comment. However, imagine the reaction at a job interview or at lunch with IT colleagues when it is learned that you stayed with SCO. My guess is that you will get a negative reaction. I was not trying to be mean but simply to point out the (in my opinion) likely reaction to former SCO workers. I would also guess that most current SCO IT workers feel pretty bad about SCO's activities (and I do not want to meet the other ones).