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Dell to Ship Linux Desktops in Europe

Anglophile writes "Looks like Dell has launched a new line of desktop computers. The Dell Optiplexes will be sold in Europe, come with the Linspire operating system and include a one year free membership to their download warehouse. "

207 comments

  1. great by fr0dicus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Something wrong with the big distros?

    1. Re:great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is Dell we're talking about. The other distros didn't suck enough for them.

    2. Re:great by clester · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree... Although I prefer Debian, Something like Mandrake would be more suitable for the average joe. The tools that come right out of the box are great for anyone that wants to use linux. Not to mention a decent package manager...

      --

      -- Real programmers don't comment their code. It was hard to write, it should be hard to understand.
    3. Re:great by KrackHouse · · Score: 1

      Mandrake with the URPMI repos' pre configured and with working 3D drivers plus MP3 Encoding support and you'd have a great average joe distro.

      --
      What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
      http://houndwire.com
    4. Re:great by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Geez. I would have figured that Dell would've shipped them with slackware. After having to play with their stone-age RAID management software, I figured they went with the most primative things possible.

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    5. Re:great by igrp · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I guess - and I am only assuming here - that a big distributor could get away with a lot more with a small distro.

      The big distributions aren't exactly operations run out of a garage any more. Redhat has some (serious) money. SuSe is backed by Novell. The Debian folks probably wouldn't exactly be too thrilled to budge to Debian's demands (well, let's say requirements) and customize a distro. They simply don't really need the money that bad. A lot of the other distros either have their own agenda or niche or simply are too specialized (e.g. Gentoo).

      Things are different if you're running a small distro though. There are bills to pay and contributions are always more than welcome. A company like Dell could therefore easily push some changes they deem necessary through. That way, they don't have to put their own people on it and, effectively, save a whole bunch of money.

    6. Re:great by manabadman · · Score: 5, Informative

      Linspire is Debian. Debian based distributions are even more similiar than rpm based ones. Once installed, you can hardly tell Debian distros apart. In fact many people call these Debian based distros alternative installers

    7. Re:great by Red+Alastor · · Score: 5, Informative

      I thought that maybe the bad comments on Lindows were made by Linux zealots. I read a good article on it on osnews that gave a discount number that made you able to download it for free for 2 days.

      I decided to try it... It is as bad as you heard.

      First, you log as root by default. No attempt to tell you that you should create users. You must know it, find it in the menus and compared to the rest of the distribution the dialog box that let you finally add users looks cryptic (from a total newbie point of view).

      Second and more important : this distribution is all about lock-in. They try to give you the impression that it is a different operating system than Windows and Linux. They rename everything to "make it easier for beginner". Other newbie-friendly distributions will write something as "Mozilla (Web Browser)" while Lindows will write "Web Browser". You can hardly switch for another application, you don't know what you are using to begin with.

      The commands are renamed.

      If you take a Knoppix CD and try to make a Lindows user use it, he will be confused.

      apt-get doesn't work if you don't pay. You don't just pay for their Click-N-Run gui, you must pay to use apt-get itself.

      And finally on a more philosophical point of view :

      They don't respect the GPL (they put a disclaimer that basically say : everything in there is copyrighted by us and us alone, don't steal !).

      They also don't mention like Mandrake and Fedora (don't know for SuSE) that what you are using is the result of a communauty effort).

      --
      Slashdot anagrams to "Sad Sloth"
    8. Re:great by kidlinux · · Score: 1

      Something wrong with the small distros?

      I imagine Dell evaluated all of their options and found that Linspire was the most suitable solution. Besides, it's a good thing they picked a small player - it brings someone new to the market.

      Though I'm a Gentoo user, for its target market Linspire looks pretty nice to me. Have a look at their flash demo.

      --
      -kidlinux.
    9. Re:great by gui_tarzan2000 · · Score: 1
      "No attempt to tell you that you should create users."

      Not true. Part of the initial install allows you to create additional users.

      "apt-get doesn't work if you don't pay. You don't just pay for their Click-N-Run gui, you must pay to use apt-get itself."

      Again, not true. Lindows.com does not charge (nor can they) for apt-get access. I use apt-get without any trouble at all. Linspire uses Debian as the core so apt-get DOES work. I know because I have used it.

      Their CNR warehouse is apt-get on steroids and you have to pay for it. But it *does* put things in menus, runs all the install for you, there is no better installation for software aside from loading from CDs.

      I REALLY wish people would get their facts straight before they spout off here. Lindows/Linspire is designed to get Windows users away from Micro$oft. It's not, nor has it ever been designed for regular Linux users. Yes, I use the $. So what.

      --
      Have you hugged your penguin today?
    10. Re:great by gujo-odori · · Score: 1

      >I decided to try it... It is as bad as you heard.

      Heh, I've got an even better one than that.

      I run Sid on my desktop machine. Very basic, fairly vanilla machine. Athlon XP 2200+ ECS mobo with Promse RAID onboard (not used), two disks (software RAID 1), a floppy, a DVD+RW drive, whitebox Radeon 9000, 3c905 NIC. Works fine with SID and Sarge. No trouble at all.

      A couple months ago I bought a British Linux magazine that had a free copy of Lindows 4.5 (still called that at the time) in a box stuck to the cover. Never did anything with it, but recently I was upgrading to two larger disks, and before I put Sid on them, decided I'd try out Lindows, basically just to see, like you, if it sucked as much as I'd heard.

      I hook up a disk (Western Digital 120 gB), boot the CD, start the install. It only gets a few minutes into the install before it hardlocks the machine. Repeatable every time.

      I gave up on that, put in the disk, intalled Sid, built my new arrays, and did a dselect upgrade to get my old package selections back. No muss, no fuss.

      Why Sid and Sarge both work perfectly on this platform and Linspire doesn't is anybody's guess. It sure wasn't important enough to look for the cause of the problem.

      Now, in addition to all the already known good reasons to not use or recommend Linspire, a good number of which you list, I have one all my own: it's finicky about hardware. Using Linspire might be kind of like the early days of Solaris x86 (or even Linux itself), when if you were building a machine on which you planned to run it, you went shopping with a hardware compatibility list in your hand.

      Linux is not at the point where the HCL is basically "Don't buy stuff that's super bleeding-edge, there might not be a driver." Other than that, the hardware support is as good, or sometimes better than, Windows XP and blows away Windows 2000 and any other earlier version of Windows. (For example, I was dual-booting XP and Debian on a machine that had a NIC I'd bought when I lived in Japan; XP had no support for the NIC and I had no driver disk and no dial-up connection, either. I downloaded the XP driver using Linux; without Linux I would have been SOL for a driver). Perhaps Linspire aims to reverse this disturbing trend towards "Just pour it in and it works" Linux as a means of somehow making people more dependent on them for (paid) support :-p

  2. Less is more? by xOleanderx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So are they gonna be $150 cheaper?

    1. Re:Less is more? by surreal-maitland · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      they have very little economic incentive to reduce the price of a linux box, simply because they have to pay less. people will still pay it and because enough people still want windows, MS 0wnx0rs them.

      (well, okay, not literally, but in the same way that clan eit 0wnz j00!!!)

      --
      -ninjaneer
    2. Re:Less is more? by ongeboren · · Score: 1

      Actually no.

      There is a microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse instead of the windows..

      --
      First I wanted to be a chef. Then I wanted to be Napoleon. My ambitions have continued to grow ever since.
    3. Re:Less is more? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "That's what Microsoft said too; that's why they sued Lindows. But of course, anyone who suggested that they might just be right about the confusion got flame broiled..."

      A.) No because Lindows.com will want some money back out of it.

      B.) No because it's not clear that Dell actually spends that much to get that license.

      C.) No because Dell will want at least a little bit of profit out of it to offset the cost of technical support issues.

      It might be a little bit cheaper, but it won't be $150 cheaper.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    4. Re:Less is more? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tech Support costs (C) are a huge factor -- Dell probably pays more in support costs than they do for the OS.

      And Linux is going to be far more expensive to provide end-user phone support than Windows. Whatever you think of the XP Home Fisher-Price UI, you have to admit that it was pretty much designed from the ground-up to keep lusers off the phone.

    5. Re:Less is more? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the US coporate website, they charge $200 more for Red Hat Enterprise than they do for XP Pro. Same configuration...

    6. Re:Less is more? by jayaramk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      yes but only if Dell agrees to ship AMD chips too. I fail to understand why a major like Dell continues to remain the last holdout when companies like HP and Compaq have started shipping AMD powered systems. Having used AMD for a long long time now..I can atleast say that it does not lack in any manner...give the customer the choice and let him decide rather than some corporate honcho somewhere deciding that NO AMD

      --
      http://students.iiit.net/~jayaram
    7. Re:Less is more? by Anonymous+Bullard · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Some more details has emerged

      From another news article:

      Starting at about $575, the systems will be targeted at businesses, schools and consumers.

      The Dell OptiPlex systems loaded with Linspire are available only through Questar. Dell was not offering any Linspire-based systems on its Web site.

      Dell spokesman Jeremy Bolen said Questar purchases the computers from the PC giant and then resells them to its customers. He said Questar is a direct customer of Dell and not a partner.
      "That's the extent of their relationship with us," he said.

      The basic Questar system ships with an Intel Celeron processor, 256 megabytes of memory and a 40- gigabyte hard drive.

      No similar configurations are shown at Dell's U.S. Web site, though a low-end OptiPlex PC running a Pentium 4 with Windows starts at about $400.

      Executive summary:

      • Dell isn't offering any Linux preloads.
      • Some Dell customer (Questar) buys boxes from Dell, installs Linspire and charges hefty premium.
      • These boxes would appear to be at least $150 more expensive than Dell's own low-end MS boxes.
      • Dell wants to distance themselves from this outrageous Linux offering.
      • The Redmond Overlords most probably get their usual cut as it is nigh impossible to get Dell to ship anything without a pre-paid Microsoft licence.
      • Linux customers should consider patronizing vendors with bona fide Linux support instead.
      --

      Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?

    8. Re:Less is more? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Redmond Overlords most probably get their usual cut as it is nigh impossible to get Dell to ship anything without a pre-paid Microsoft licence.

      Dell ships bare machines with a FreeDOS CD and no Windows + Tech Support tax. They also ship Linux on high-end workstations (for former Sun customers etc).

  3. I wonder... by cbrocious · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When will we see the same thing for Xandros?

    --
    Disconnect and self-destruct, one bullet at a time.
  4. Finally we have someone like DELL doing it by SlashingComments · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is great ! If DELL is putting their weight behind that will be a major policy shift for *many* corporations.

    --

    - People who believe other people have no right to live, got no right to live ...

    1. Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're all doing it - they just don't admit it ;-)

    2. Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it by NoData · · Score: 5, Informative

      Didn't Dell ALREADY have Linux offerings here in the U.S. a few years agon, but then got throttled by MS?

    3. Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it by pyros · · Score: 5, Informative

      That retaliation is part of why MS was convicted of abusing their monopoly. Microsoft is prohibited from retaliatory OEM licensing fees in the settlement now.

    4. Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it by pretzel_logic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dells work-around is to sell the machine without a OS installed. Dell has offered Linux solutions for about 5 years. Dell.com/Linux

      --

      pretzel_logic
    5. Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 1

      "This is great ! If DELL is putting their weight behind that will be a major policy shift for *many* corporations."

      Just like when IBM did it?

    6. Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it by Tenebrious1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is great ! If DELL is putting their weight behind that will be a major policy shift for *many* corporations.

      Not at all. If Dell quit selling Windows entirely and began shipping only Lindows machines, then yes, it could be said that Dell was putting their weight behind it. That Dell is only offering it as an alternative means little, it'll be interpreted as Dell going after some market shares they don't have.

      --
      -- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
    7. Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it by advocate_one · · Score: 2, Insightful

      yes, they don't retaliate with the OEM pricing... just reduce the "market development funds". Do a google search on "market development agreements" and microsoft.

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    8. Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dells work-around is to sell the machine without a OS installed.


      Microsoft can still (unfortunately) punish OS-less vendors.

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/20/microsoft_ gets_green_light/

      This is why Dell's n-series ships with a token FreeDOS.

    9. Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My impression is that Dell only sells Linux solutions because of some customers demanding it, not because its in their real interest (like IBM). Am I right?

  5. yeah right by Nylathotep · · Score: 0, Troll

    Dell cant even ship their computers on time in the U.S.

  6. Soon by gustgr · · Score: 3, Funny

    SCO x DELL

    1. Re:Soon by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Take the cross product of SCO and Dell? Gee, go in a whole new direction, why don't ya?

  7. Linspire? Isn't that...uh, stupid? by GFLPraxis · · Score: 0

    Correct me if I'm wrong...but wasn't Linspire BANNED in several European countries?

    Therefore, wouldn't it be stupid to sell a computer in Europe running an OS that was banned in 3 different countries?

    I can see this in the US...but in Europe?

  8. Dell & Linux Try #2? by jo42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A few years ago, didn't Dell ship desktops, laptops and servers and sich with Red Hat Linux on them, nyet?

    1. Re:Dell & Linux Try #2? by TruthSeeker · · Score: 3, Informative

      I confirm that, I worked at a company that used Dell Optiplex computers and they _were_ shipped with RH at the time. However, they discontinued that because of the "lack of demand" (well, that's what they told us anyway)

      --
      I sense much beer in you. Beer leads to intoxication, intoxication leads to hangover. Hangover leads to sobering.
    2. Re:Dell & Linux Try #2? by nametaken · · Score: 1

      It appears they only ship RedHat Enterprise now. As other poster mentioned, doesn't appear they sell the desktop version anymore.

    3. Re:Dell & Linux Try #2? by BokLM · · Score: 1

      Bordel de merde de saloperie de nom de dieu de chiotte de connerie de mes couilles, faites pas chier la pine !

      Does anyone know what it means ?

  9. linspire? by AndersBrownworth · · Score: 1

    Linspire? Never heard of it...

    1. Re:linspire? by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Linspire? Never heard of it..."

      It was originally called Lindows. Imagine how confusing that would have been: selecting between Lindows and Windows in the OS box while config'ing your machine. Not even the screengrabs would have been a dead-give-away. "Oh, must be a typo."

    2. Re:linspire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, the OS formerly known as Lindows :)

    3. Re:Linspire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We go with Gentoo thank you very much.

    4. Re:linspire? by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Imagine how confusing that would have been: selecting between Lindows and Windows in the OS box while config'ing your machine."

      It's funny how this detail is conveniently forgotten on Slashdot when it comes to making arguments about why Microsoft is in the wrong in that case. Protect the consumer, not the underdog.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    5. Re:linspire? by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It was originally called Lindows. Imagine how confusing that would have been: selecting between Lindows and Windows in the OS box while config'ing your machine. Not even the screengrabs would have been a dead-give-away. "Oh, must be a typo."

      That's what Microsoft said too; that's why they sued Lindows. But of course, anyone who suggested that they might just be right about the confusion got flame broiled...

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    6. Re:linspire? by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "That's what Microsoft said too; that's why they sued Lindows. But of course, anyone who suggested that they might just be right about the confusion got flame broiled..."

      What really irks me about the anti-MS sentiment on this topic is that it's WAY too late to do anything about it. MS owns the trademark regardless of whether or not they can put a (R) next to it. It'd take years to un-weld it from people's minds. At this point, setting it 'right' would potentially put a LOT of consumers out there in a position where they have to be unnecessarily careful. That's exactly why this whole trademark system was put into place to begin with. Oh, but we MUST SCREW MICROSOFT! BUAHAHAHA!!

      Lame. The really really really stupid thing is that Lindows could never ever claim they landed on that name by accident. Their maliciousness in this case needs to be a factor in this as well. They cannot possibly ignore that even if MS had no legal right to trademark Windows years ago they would still be confusing people. You don't want Lindows to win this. It would set a precedent that would give MS the power to do the same thing to somebody else (i.e. Palm). Bad bad bad.

    7. Re:Linspire? by manabadman · · Score: 1

      SuSe isn't the only big distro from Europe. There is also Mandrake. Plus maybe this is because of an initiative taken by Lindows/Linspire. Things happen to those that put forth effort. This page seems to indicate that Questar and Lindows and in some kind of partnership.

    8. Re:linspire? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The full trademark name is "Microsoft Windows". (Or should be, since plain English words describing generic attributes of a product should note be trademarkable.)

      The menu choice would then say "[ ] Microsoft Windows". Even the biggest idiot in the world would have no confusion distinguishing that from "Lindows". The consumer is already protected without needing to privatize a word already in general use.

    9. Re:linspire? by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The consumer is already protected without needing to privatize a word already in general use."

      Bullshit. Everybody calls it Windows, not Microsoft Windows. Additionally, the parent company if Linspire is called Lindows.com. To further confuse things, Microsoft has several variations of Windows like 2000, XP, Me, etc that people are familiar with. Calling it "Microsoft Windows" is not enough by a long shot, especially when compared to "Lindows.Com Lindows".

      What they'd need is a big bold sentence saying "This is not the same as Windows! Watch out!" Not even a screenshot would differentiate between the two. Protected consumer, my ass. If Microsoft made a product called Winux, you all'd suddenly change sides on this issue.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    10. Re:linspire? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Everybody calls it Windows, not Microsoft Windows.

      Irrelevant. Everybody in the South calls a glass of Pepsi a "Coke". That doesn't mean that Pepsi should get a trademark on the word "Coke".

      To further confuse things, Microsoft has several variations of Windows like 2000, XP, Me, etc that people are familiar with. Calling it "Microsoft Windows" is not enough by a long shot, especially when compared to "Lindows.Com Lindows".

      [ ] Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
      [ ] Lindows.com Lindows

      If those two choices seem confusing to you, you've got bigger problems than choosing an OS.

      What they'd need is a big bold sentence saying "This is not the same as Windows! Watch out!"

      And yet they're supposed to read, understand and agree to abide by the 10-page EULA full of obscure legal and technical language.

      If Microsoft made a product called Winux, you all'd suddenly change sides on this issue.

      I don't see any problem at all with the name "Winux". Notice that the fact that it's not an English word makes it a good choice for a trademark name. I would encourage them to go for it, but unfortunately it seems to already be the name for an Indian Lindows-like product, as well as the name of a recent cross-platform virus.

    11. Re:linspire? by ifwm · · Score: 1

      "Everybody in the South calls a glass of Pepsi a "Coke"."

      No we don't. I call a Pepsi a Pepsi, and I call a Coke a Coke. No one I know (lived "in the south" for 28 years) calls anything but a Coke a Coke. Stop generalizing.

    12. Re:linspire? by 0prime · · Score: 1

      We call our new handheld "calm". The blue screen that comes up every 1/2 hour or so is very calming.

      --
      I am not a *blank*, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
    13. Re:linspire? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Irrelevant. Everybody in the South calls a glass of Pepsi a "Coke". That doesn't mean that Pepsi should get a trademark on the word "Coke"."

      You just brought up a good point, sadly it's in my favor. First off, people don't call a can of Pepsi a can of Coke. This is a myth. Instead, what happens is if somebody orders a Coke, but Pepsi is all they have, it's assumed that it is an acceptable alternative. In the case of soft-drinks, it is not that big of deal. However, Windows and Linux are not very interopable at all. You cannot go to Best Buy, pick up a game, and expect it to work on Lindows. Alternatively, Linux software is not going to work on Windows. So if you say "Gimme Windows", and they give you Lindows instead, you're screwed. You're not getting what you asked for.

      As for whether or not they should get the trademark, that is not the point at all. The point is that if Pepsi were to lose its trademark because somebody trademarked Pepsin (weak, I know, just bear with me), Coke would be harming the consumer by creating a duplicate brand called Pepsi. It would taste different, and it'd confuse the market place. Who owns the (R) is not at issue, it's what is the expectation of the customer based on the brand that was developed. That should be protected above all else.

      "If those two choices seem confusing to you, you've got bigger problems than choosing an OS."

      Get off your high horse. Not everybody is born knowing computers backwards and forwards.

      "And yet they're supposed to read, understand and agree to abide by the 10-page EULA full of obscure legal and technical language."

      Irrelevant, seperate topic. Not trying to just shoot you down willy nilly, but we could spend all day arguing about EULAs (thought I doubt we have dissimilar views) before getting back on topic.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    14. Re:linspire? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Informative
      I'm sorry if I generalized to make my point. However, I think that you're generalizing, too. When I lived in the South, I met several people who called any Soda "Coke", and they were proud of it.

      The map is a little spotty in areas, maybe you live in a non-Coke spot.

    15. Re:linspire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Microsoft made a product called Winux ...

      Don't you mean "If Micwosoft made a pwoduct cawwed Winux, you wascawwy wabbit!"?

    16. Re:linspire? by Tarantolato · · Score: 2, Informative

      You just brought up a good point, sadly it's in my favor. First off, people don't call a can of Pepsi a can of Coke. This is a myth.

      Not in the South.

      Mother: What kind of Coke do y'all want?
      Child1: Sprite.
      Child2: Mr. Pibb.
      Child3: Pepsi.

      (Actual overheard conversation in Theta (thee-ta), TN.) Southern 'coke' is equivalent to US standard 'soda', Midwest 'pop', or New England 'tonic'.

    17. Re:linspire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Microsoft made a product called Winux, you all'd suddenly change sides on this issue.

      but only after making life of brian jokes

    18. Re:linspire? by croddy · · Score: 1
      First off, people don't call a can of Pepsi a can of Coke. This is a myth. Instead, what happens is if somebody orders a Coke, but Pepsi is all they have, it's assumed that it is an acceptable alternative. In the case of soft-drinks, it is not that big of deal.

      sounds like you haven't spent much time in atlanta ;-)

    19. Re:linspire? by zogger · · Score: 1

      I live in georgia (since 84) and I've heard that many times down here. It is not entirely universal, but it's common enough to call any pop or soda a coke.

      like at a construction site I was working at - "hey, ya'all, 'm'going to pick up some cokes n ice, whatch ya'all want?" Then the dudes chime in with what they want, various flavors. Heard it like that a buncha times.

    20. Re:linspire? by Phragmen-Lindelof · · Score: 1

      "sounds like you haven't spent much time in atlanta ;-)"
      I have spent too much time in the Atlanta airport and it sucks :-)
      No one has asked me for a carbonated drink (by any name) in Atlanta so I do not know what they call a "Pepsi" there. (I will ask a friend from Georgia Tech. when I see one of them next.) At many fast food restaurants (e.g. CA, DC, OH, TX), a customer who orders a "coke" gets the restaurant's "cola" without question (although some will ask "Is a Pepsi OK?").
      Anyway, who cares? I'm afraid of the day that MS patents oxygen.

  10. One year free? by GICodeWarrior · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sounds like a scam...

  11. it runs linspire, but by lanswitch · · Score: 5, Funny

    does it run linux?

    1. Re:it runs linspire, but by IdleTime · · Score: 1

      Parent should be rated -1 troll rather than +4 insightful.

      No matter what your personal feelings are about Linspire and Dell, this is a step forward for Linux

      --
      If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
    2. Re:it runs linspire, but by LifesizeKenDoll · · Score: 0

      How is parent Insightful? Seriously, people - it's a joke, not a look into the inner depths of our souls or something to that degree.

    3. Re:it runs linspire, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      of course, it runs netbsd.

    4. Re:it runs linspire, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are very right. The name is plain stupid - as Lindows is, also from marketing point of view. Everybody at least have heard of Linux. So when they see Red Hat Linux, SuSe (soon Novell?) Linux, Turbo Linux, they expect that there is more-less the same software running under the hood. But when they see in a shop a stick on a computer "Powered by Linspire", it is the same as they would see "Powered by BeOS". Joe user will have no clue what it is - maybe some brand name for Pentium? And after all, sounds very bullshitting.

    5. Re:it runs linspire, but by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 1

      Indeed it is. I have few things to say about Lindows, including that it's a poor excuse for a wanna-be Linux distro. But, it's still based on the Linux kernel, it still will give the Linux nubes a taste, and it shows that an important segment of Microsoft's users will be quite fine and happy with Linux.

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  12. Makes sense. by Future+Man+3000 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    In an office environment where the servers and workstations are Linux (as they are in increasing numbers throughout Europe) the secretaries might as well operate in parity. The cost efficiency of these machines and the number of 'low-end' systems that tend to be deployed in a business environment make these a good solution for places that desire something a little better/easier to implement than a dumb terminal.

    I'm surprised Dell hasn't done this sooner. But then again, Linspire is of recent vintage and was the first to make desktop Linux feasible on the large scale. Now people can obtain an entirely-Linux solution from Dell -- from the server to the desktop -- and all I can say is it's about time.

    --

    I never vote for anyone. I always vote against.
    -- W.C. Fields

    1. Re:Makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a pitty its running Intel instead of AMD then.

    2. Re:Makes sense. by sloanster · · Score: 2, Informative

      Linspire is of recent vintage and was the first to make desktop Linux feasible on the large scale.

      I rather think that suse/novell have made desktop linux quite feasible, and IMHO would be a much better fit for serious widespread deployment - Linspire (nee lindows) is interesting, but I would characterize it more as an attempt to make desktop linux easy for Aunt Tillie and her nephew Joe Sixpack, than as any sort of "large scale" paradigm.

      As well, most competent admins find the weak security of Linspire to be unacceptable - it essentially reduces linux to a windows level of security, with Aunt Tillie browsing the web and reading her email as root by default (YIKES!!!)

      Talk about a disaster waiting to happen...

    3. Re:Makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are runninga a managed Linux network, you don't want Linspire and a "download warehouse". Those folks use Suse or RedHat or roll their own from Debian or whatever. These Dells are probably targeted at SOHO and home users.

  13. Freeloading by AnthonyPaulO · · Score: 2, Funny

    Dell Optiplexes will be sold in Europe, come with the Linspire operating system and include a one year free membership to their download warehouse. Hmmmm... well, as long as they don't institute BestBuy's new "The Customer Is No Longer Always Right" policy, then I should be able to buy an Optiplex, get the one year free membership of downloads, and return the Optiplex. Woohoo!

  14. Linspire!?!!??? by Moby+Cock · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why Linspire? Why not use a bigger, (dare I say it) better distro. SuSe 9.1 is Europe's biggest distro, why not that? Is there some anger between Novell and Dell?

    1. Re:Linspire!?!!??? by IWantMyNickBack · · Score: 1

      no, dell thinks linspire is better for the desktop methinks

    2. Re:Linspire!?!!??? by datadriven · · Score: 1

      More likely they were the first to offer Dell some sort of kickback.

    3. Re:Linspire!?!!??? by chris_eineke · · Score: 2, Funny
      Why not use a bigger, (dare I say it) better distro. SuSe 9.1 is Europe's biggest distro
      One reason: SuSE 9.1 Personal Edition comes without an C compiler.
      --
      "All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
    4. Re:Linspire!?!!??? by Wudbaer · · Score: 1

      Then they can add one before shipping (if it really matters for the market segment they are targetting, SuSE didn't leave out the compiler out of malevolence) or just ship Pro. SuSE/Novell would certainly give them a great discount. If this is needed at all, as the distro is now freely (as in speech) available, so they just could put together their own version of SuSE and ship it (like Fujitsu has been doing for quite some time in Germany).

    5. Re:Linspire!?!!??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      And also no Emacs, only vim, so SuSe is completely unusable as a desktop.

    6. Re:Linspire!?!!??? by stm2 · · Score: 1

      Linspire also cames WITHOUT GCC. But could be downloaded using Click-and-Run. (there is also a "Developer" edition of Linspire with GCC, but I guess this developer is not what will came with new DELLS).

      --
      DNA in your Linux: DNALinux
    7. Re:Linspire!?!!??? by tupps · · Score: 1

      Now I know why Windows is totally unusable as a desktop :-)

      I am sure you can download emacs.

      --
      Go out and get sailing!
  15. They used to... by mustangsal66 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So Dell returns home to Linux...

    I bought several PC's from Dell in 2001 with RedHat preinstalled... They shipped with driver disks too...

    --
    Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
    Sig changed for readability by G.W.
    1. Re:They used to... by AliasTheRoot · · Score: 1

      I managed a bunch of slimline Dell swervers once, I swear the hardware was *built* to run FreeBSD - sure it ran windows, but the SCSI controller, mobo, network.... shit everything was just supported in the CD boot of FreeBSD.

      To this day I will quite happily recommend Dell hardware to the SME's I consult for. It's just built well.

  16. Download Warehouse? by AceJohnny · · Score: 5, Funny

    Download warehouse? is that like an apt-get repository? DAMMIT! It was so OBVIOUS! To get Linux on the market, it had to become paying, then add free offers!

    --
    Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
    1. Re:Download Warehouse? by mustangsal66 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Seriously,

      The only way to get my mother off windows was to get her onto (then Lindows). She didn't trust that 'free' stuff. She felt comfortable paying a few dollars for it, and the 'support' behind it.

      --
      Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
      Sig changed for readability by G.W.
    2. Re:Download Warehouse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you give me the address of your mom? I can sell her a nice Debian for the right price of $699 (linspired by another *linux* company), everybody will be happy. And because it is your mom, I will include apt-get (and synaptic) support for free...

  17. Linspire? by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 2
    What on earth? I figured for Europe they would go with Suse. But Linspire?

    The article I read inquirer.net didn't say if the machine was for whoreporate or home use.

    --
    "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
    --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
  18. a bit misleading by theonlyholle · · Score: 5, Informative

    looks like this is a bit misleading - in fact, Dell is shipping them, but they are actually being sold by an Italian company called Questar. So while they are technically Dell machines and even shipped by Dell, this is not a big move by Dell onto the European linux market, it's a smaller company taking the initiative in partnership with Dell...

    1. Re:a bit misleading by theCat · · Score: 1

      ...and so I guess if Dell was trying to fly under the radar vis-a-vis their partners in Redmond, I guess we blew it for them, eh?

      Me, crying an ocean of tears...not.

      --
      =^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
    2. Re:a bit misleading by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 1
      The mystery solved.

      I wonder what their market is?

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    3. Re:a bit misleading by andymar · · Score: 1

      The article says:"pre-installed with the English or Italian version of Linspire 4.5 operating system and include Dell's gold technical support."
      So Dell have to train their staff in Linux support, which is probably not a small investment.

    4. Re:a bit misleading by theonlyholle · · Score: 2, Informative

      actually, I doubt that. If you look at what Dell's website says about their Gold technical support program, it only mentions Windows XP and Windows 2000... I suspect that's what Questar bought from them. The service level will still be very high, but probably limited to the hardware only because the customer is using a non-supported OS.

    5. Re:a bit misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I knew Dell didn't have the balls to fully support Linux. This just shows you how deep Dell is tucked away in Microsoft's back pocket.

  19. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by marnargulus · · Score: 1

    Except, when all of a sudden the windows only Dell becomes "You choose the OS", suddenly edging windows out of owning the desktop market. MS might not take kindly to this, and could basically shut down Dell by not selling to them.

  20. Who gets the savings by MrMojado · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do they still pay the microsoft tax? I would assume Dell passes the savings of not paying for an OS right into their pocket. Consumers will not see lower prices.

    1. Re:Who gets the savings by chris_mahan · · Score: 1

      That's OK.

      I'd rather Dell get the money than Microsoft.

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

  21. It's a signal to microsoft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dell *supported* Linux on desktops and laptops about 5 years ago. No one knows what happened, but Dell stopped doing it. Who knows if it was the carrot or the stick of Microsoft that prompted Dell to drop support.

    Dell is probably just gambling that they can get a little "carrot" from Microsoft: Microsoft drops their price for Windows and Dell drops desktop support for Linux (again). The risk is that Microsoft will retaliate with "the stick" : price increases for Windows until Dell drops Linux support.

    Bill and Michael may smile and shake hands but underneath the table they are kicking each other.

  22. Re:Linspire? Isn't that...uh, stupid? by Moby+Cock · · Score: 2, Informative

    Lindows was banned. That's why it changed to Linspire.

  23. Trickle-down economics by dankney · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Finally there's a version of the trickle-down theory that actually works.

    I'd bet that Dell made this decision because there are many large users (Munich decision, with many more considering) who will be switching over in the work-place.

    Many non-techie employees of those organizations will want to have the same environment at home as at work -- two OSs is simply too "confusing" for point-and-click types.

    And as more and more large institutions move to Linux whatever reason (there are many), I think we will see more and more pre-packaged systems available on a retail level.

    1. Re:Trickle-down economics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trickle-down economics is a bullshit theory that rich people use to rationalize crushing the common man. Fuck it.

    2. Re:Trickle-down economics by Synic · · Score: 4, Funny

      Which comedian was it that said, "visualize a billionaire pissing on your head"

    3. Re:Trickle-down economics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Likely Denis Leary, or maybe George Carlin...

  24. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by xOleanderx · · Score: 1

    Well on dells site the difference between home and pro is $70. But on newegg the difference between the two is $51.

  25. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by jdhutchins · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "could basically shut down Dell by not selling to them"

    Microsoft COULD do that, but it'd be a blantant violation of their slap-on-the-wrist agreement with the DoJ. They probably couldn't get away with it, and would be forced to start selling to Dell again.

  26. Linspire = Lindows = Debian by Eloquence · · Score: 5, Informative
    From Wikipedia, licensed under the GNU FDL:

    Linspire, previously known as LindowsOS (also Lin---s, pronounced as Lindash), is a Linux distribution based on Debian. It targets the consumer user - its distributors market it more intensively than all other Unix-based or Unix-like distributions except Mac OS X. As Lindows, it was the first Linux distribution to replace Windows in home consumer desktop systems at a substantially lower price than Microsoft Windows.

    Michael Robertson, the founder and former CEO of MP3.com functions as the CEO of Lindows, Inc. It is still called "Lindows, Inc" even though the product is now Linspire.

    Microsoft Corporation sued Lindows, Inc for its use of the term "Windows", which Microsoft claimed constituted a trademark infringement. In February 2004, a judge rejected two of Microsoft's central claims. Though Microsoft lost the core of its case, and says it will appeal the decision, for uncertain reasons it also called the decision "a victory". (See Microsoft vs Lindows for more information.) Lindows was renamed Linspire to avoid further legal action by Microsoft. Michael Robertson called the legal action "Sextuple Jeopardy", which is like "Double Jeopardy" but sextupled.

    Lindows, Inc had the initial goal of developing a Linux-based operating system capable of running major Windows applications as well. It based its Windows compatibility on the development of WINE by the Linspire team. Lindows.com later abandoned its initial approach in favor of making Linux applications easy to download, install and use. They achieved this using an application called Click-N-Run, a program based on Debian's Advanced Packaging Tool, providing an easy-to-use interface and a slightly modified package system for an annual fee (apt-get costs no money, but has less user-friendliness). Click-N-Run has over 1,000 pieces of software for download.

    Lindows, Inc sponsors many open-source projects and events, including the Gaim instant messaging client, the KDE-Apps.org (http://www.kde-apps.org/) and KDE-Look.org (http://www.kde-look.org/) websites, and the Nvu project, which has started to develop an open-source WYSIWYG website editor (based on the Mozilla composer code) to rival FrontPage. In the past, Linspire.com has contributed over $500,000 to the WINE project.

    Editions

    Several varieties of Linspire, known as editions, target different markets. Three main editions exist: Standard, Developer and Laptop.

    • Standard - The standard edition offers the standard distributions, intended for most consumer desktops.
    • Developer - A version designed for developers, this version comes with many development tools such as text editors, compilers and libaries for developing software.
    • Laptop - A version of Linspire optimized for notebook computers, which have different hardware requirements from desktop computers.
    • LindowsLive! - Potential users can download a no-cost LiveCD version of Linspire in ISO image format from P2P networks.

    External links

    1. Re:Linspire = Lindows = Debian by FictionPimp · · Score: 1
      Developer - A version designed for developers, this version comes with many development tools such as text editors, compilers and libaries for developing software.

      So are they saying the non developer edition doesn't come with a text editor??

  27. Yeah, Dell! by bp2179 · · Score: 1

    I think that most of Europe is open to different OS's, especially since the EU sanctions on M$. This could actually work there. I doubt it would work here. I don't remember Wal-Mart's Linux computers doing much. I never saw them in any of the stores around where I live. It would be great if this works, but I just don't see it happening. Wal-Mart's weight in the US didn't do much for Linux, I am not sure if Dell's would.
    I applaud them on the effort.

    1. Re:Yeah, Dell! by pyros · · Score: 1

      Walmart's Linux offerings are only available from wlamart.com. They also sell systems with Sun's Java Desktop System pre-installed there.

    2. Re:Yeah, Dell! by pyros · · Score: 1

      ugh, walmart.com, not wlamart.com.

  28. Can I license to ship with Dell too? by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe Dell can work out a deal where anyone can sell their machines with any o/s preloaded as a ghosted image, provided you send them the CD and you're liable if the image is crap... that would be sweet! Then we could all compete with our favorite o/s's and with wal-mart (to some tiny degree)

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:Can I license to ship with Dell too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would just rather a no OS option. Buy a dell, get a few disks of windows and possibly linux drivers, and thats it. Its like back when my old company used gateways, we used to order them without a sound card, then one day we were told a sound card was required by software pre-installed on the machine. I told her the first thing we do is format the computer anyways and do a fresh install of NT, but that didn't seem to matter.

    2. Re:Can I license to ship with Dell too? by craenor · · Score: 2, Informative

      Maybe Dell can work out a deal where anyone can sell their machines with any o/s preloaded as a ghosted image, provided you send them the CD and you're liable if the image is crap... that would be sweet! Then we could all compete with our favorite o/s's and with wal-mart (to some tiny degree)

      Dell already does this. They call it Custom Factory Integration...or Dell+. It costs a fair bit, because interrupting their normal manufacturing process for your special requests is pricy for them. Also, if you have a CFI image they will not provide software support, but then why should they, it's running your image.

      This same process can be used to swap out certain hardware components as well. If you want a different Wireless Networking card, you might be able to arrange that through CFI as well.

  29. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by Unnngh! · · Score: 4, Insightful
    They could do a lot of damage to Dell this way, but it wouldn't be smart for either party. How is average joe computer buyer going to respond when he sees that half the PCs at Bestbuy are running some thing called Linux, proudly embossed with the Dell name, when the salesman tells him it's just as good as Windows only cheaper? He'll probably buy the Dell Linux system.

    MS is dependent on its oem retailers probably more than the other way around.

  30. Europe is more receptive to progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Reminds me of radial tires. Europe used radial design tires for decades before they were adopted in the USA, despite the superiority of radials. The USA limped along on clunky bias ply tires for what seems like forever.

    If adoption of tire design is any clue, it will be a few more decades before we see Linux take its rightful place on the USA desktop.

    1. Re:Europe is more receptive to progress by hey · · Score: 1

      In Japan the "cars" use mag-lev. When-o-when will Europe and finaly the USA learn.

    2. Re:Europe is more receptive to progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is just basic second mover advantage. The first person to use a technology gets stuck with the primitive first version because that's what the support structure gets built up around. However new people who are playing catchup are not so encumbered and can do it the better way from the ground up. If there's a third iteration then the first group is at an advantage again because it's easier for them to replace an aging technology than the second group because the gain difference is greater.

      Michael

  31. What is the intended market? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Oh why oh why they have chosen the Linspire OS.

    You see, if you are an average customer and you do not know about different operating systems or you are very open-minded about the two major ones you know (Linux vs Windows): are you going to choose the Windows with free updates for the next, say, five years with superior application availability or are you going to buy something that has only updates / repository etc for one year?

  32. Re:Linspire? Isn't that...uh, stupid? by pyros · · Score: 4, Informative

    The distro wasn't banned, the courts just made the company change the name.

  33. Lin-pay-for? by BlindSpy · · Score: 1

    How do products like Linspire with their "pay for package warehouses" survive? There are so many distro's out there that enable you to download from their package databases for free and as often as you want. Do I even have to mention Gentoo?

    --
    Whoever dies with the most toys wins.
  34. File Compatability with ms office? by jzilla · · Score: 3, Informative

    "All Dell computers sold by Questar will be equipped with word processing, spreadsheet, and presentation software and file compatibility with Microsoft Office."

    Linspire comes with Open Office 1.1.

    While there is a great deal of compatability between Open Office and MS Office, there are still issues
    Sounds a little misleading to me.

    1. Re:File Compatability with ms office? by sloanster · · Score: 2, Informative

      While there is a great deal of compatability between Open Office and MS Office, there are still issues

      LOL, there are issues with different versions of ms office trying to open a given document!

      Seriously, I am obliged to exchange ms office docs with my superiors, and I've been using openoffice 1.1.1 on suse for awhile now - no problems, and no complaints.

      Oh, I'm sure some shill will come up with a document that doesn't look right, but as I said, that is not the common case, and as I mentioned above, you even have that problem with different versions of ms office...

    2. Re:File Compatability with ms office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll be the shill. I love openoffice but just the other day I had to fill in this evaluation at work. It had one of my colleagues names instead of mine in the header. Open in microsoft word, and its my name. Looks like some changed information, which was still in the file was being displayed. Very odd - looked great apart from that though.

    3. Re:File Compatability with ms office? by RoLi · · Score: 1
      True, in some cases, OpenOffice is even better than MS Office when dealing with MS Office files.

      For example, a friend of mine had a problem with an Excel-sheet that included important data, was somehow corrupted and didn't open in Excel.

      I just said "try it with OpenOffice" and indeed, he could recover most of the data (some portion was corrupted, but it did open in OpenOffice)

  35. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They probably couldn't get away with it

    Depends if Bush gets re-elected or not.

  36. Re:Linspire!?!!... why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Linspire is Debian-based and one of the most windows-like distribution. Besides, it has an excellent software upgrade system that is esy to use for everyone. It makes sense.

    And I am a Mandrake user and apologist :).

  37. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > How is average joe computer buyer going to respond when he sees that half the PCs at Bestbuy are running some thing called Linux, proudly embossed with the Dell name,

    I think he'll be flabbergasted to see any Dells at Best Buy, considering that Dells are not sold through retail channels.

  38. They have ignored agreements before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In 1994, Microsoft agreed to change contracts with PC makers and eliminate some restrictions on other software makers, ending the U.S. and European antitrust investigations.

    Microsoft will do whatever it damn well pleases and buy off anyone who complains : IBM, AOL, Sun, Justice Dept, etc. Cost of doing business.

  39. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by caswelmo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    That's true. I've heard that Bush has been real interested in the current state of the OS wars. He feels that by promoting Windows & MS, not only does he give money to his cronies, he also promotes a less secure system that is easier for his "men in black" to spy on.

    Oh wait, he doesn't give a shit.

  40. No Batman. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 0, Troll

    THey were stopped to use Lindows. Linspire is halal, kosher, etc.

    yours,

    The Penguin.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  41. Re:Inconcievable! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're not quite illegal, but they're certainly anti-competitive. Here's a very old article from The Register:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/19/microsoft_ killed_dell_linux_states/

    Seriously, just do a Google search for "dell linux microsoft" and you'll turn up all kinds of stuff.

  42. Re:Inconcievable! by pyros · · Score: 1
    Every time someone complains about the lack of big companies offering Linux desktops, somebody quickly claims that Microsoft does all sorts of illegal manipulations to make it impossible -- and, of course, promptly gets moderated up to +5 Insightful. Would they care to explain this?

    To play Devil's Advocate and seemingly contradict an earlier post of mine, notice that this announcement applies to Europe, where the judicial system seems to have sharper teeth when it comes to punishing Microsoft to level the playing field.

  43. Re:Econ 101 by 955301 · · Score: 1

    it's sorta frustrating having a degree in business sometimes.

    That makes sense, having been ripped of by a university like that, I'd be frustrated too.

    Here... have a basic electronics book. And if you explain to the EE professors what happened to you, I'm sure they'll let you sit in the back of the class as long as you don't bother anyone with your Econ 101 comments. :)

    --
    You are checking your backups, aren't you?
  44. Re:Inconcievable! by Alien+Being · · Score: 1

    "Would they care to explain this?"

    You should review the facts of the DOJ case against MS, you fucking troll.

  45. Wierd distro choice by consolidatedbord · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ..coming from a company that uses Redhat on the server side of things. I mean, I know that Linspire has been geared towards former windows users who use linux for whatever reason, and the major desktop target audience from Dell is full of windows users, but now they are going to have to widen the support level won't they?

    --
    while true ; do echo this is my sig; done
  46. Get them here while they're hot! by ajcbau · · Score: 2, Informative
  47. Mod Back Up by Stevyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This guy is right. People here make anti-microsoft claims just for the karma. Rarely are they backed up with any credible evidence. It's a shame to see a good discussion revolve around some jerk who should me modded down as "-1, Jumped on the Bandwagon"

    If you like microsoft then use them. If not, then don't. And btw, I use gentoo, but I only say that not to get modded down as an ms fanboy because that's how some will read this.

    1. Re:Mod Back Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Do you have suggestions for how people should back up their claims? Does Microsoft go around saying "Hey, you guys suck, we're going to screw you over!"

      No. This kind of thing doesn't happen. Most business deals are behind closed doors. We're extremely lucky if we get ANY kind of info on what kind of business deals go on between these companies. There is a lot of karma whoring going on, but that's what happens when you talk about a major corporation like Microsoft, which keeps everything very secret and doesn't communicate well with others.

      In this case, I fail to see the anti-msft posts in this discussion. I really don't see how the grandparent post has any relevancy to this discussion. Dell is merely shipping products which were requested by a European company. Dell doesn't have a lineup of Linspire PCs, and probably won't officially support linux for some time.

    2. Re:Mod Back Up by m0rph3us0 · · Score: 1

      Like the DoJ? And the European anti-trust prosecutors? Interestingly enough. MS got CONVICTED on both counts. They don't allegedly do these things, they have been proven in court to do these things.

  48. Re:Inconcievable! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  49. Re:Econ 101 (WHY WAS THIS MODDED TROLL) by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Noooo...you see, in our world here, corporations like IBM and HP have secret meetings where they agree to only make the appearance of competing. Really, they just pool cash to buy Republicans into office (which will presumably go out of their way to legislate all of the money out of the pockets of the masses), jack up prices, and more importantly think of ways they can screw end customers out of money, even if it hurts them too.

    Please don't try to hurt what we've done here. We've brought as many brainless anti-corporate zealots together to form our own little "pretend" community, where we can spearhead a global movement against a non-existant threat. I personally would much rather consider myself a 'revolutionary' than an 'arrogant intellectial with hidden self esteem problems.'

    Posts like yours only remind us of that reality that exists upstairs where our parents are working hard to make this dream possible.

    --
    Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
  50. Re:Linspire? Isn't that...uh, stupid? by binkzz · · Score: 2, Informative

    No they didn't, Lindows won the court cases and were allowed to keep the name, but then MS started suing them in so many countries that Lindows couldn't afford to fight them all and just decided to stop fighting and change the name to Linspire. In Holland and the UK, for instance, they've won and are allowed to keep the name Lindows.

    --
    'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
  51. phone support by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Will Dell's phone support be better than Red Hat's? When will we see a "help desk shootout", showing which Linux support line best helps grandma find the "any key"?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:phone support by emtboy9 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Things may have changed, but in the past, in the US at least, Dell's customers called Dell support for any issue. The Dell Tech determined if the call was a Linux issue or a Hardware issue. Then, if it was a hardware issue, the customer was handled by the Dell tech. If the issue was a Linux issue, the customer was forwarded to Red Hat's tech support.

      That was a few years ago, and since then, Red Hat has had some big changes in their support model, and Dell has sent all its tech support to India, and brought parts of it back again, so YMMV.

      --
      "Our funds have never taken part in toxic or death spiral convertible financings of any sort" -BayStar's managing partne
  52. Linspire is great for newbies! by Uberdog · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's is the only linux distro I know of that will literally speak to you as if you're an idiot with Audiot Assist Tutorials!

  53. Europe!=All of Europe by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Checks Irish Site...
    No Linux option...

    This bugs me especially considering they make the danm things right outside my back door. And yet I will always be the last customer to get bargins.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  54. Good by ArchAngel21x · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I think this is great news. Of course the hard core Linux users will bitch and moan about Lindows/Linspire because it's *gasp* easy to use. Keep using slackware if you insist, but let the masses use what's best for them. My mom and many others, for example, don't have to patience to learn cyptic CLI commands to install a piece of software.

    1. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I knew slashdot was somewhat anti-Linux when saying it's "hard to use" to mean it's different than Microsoft, but only today i learn that Linux users themselves are anti-Linux..
      A whole new meaning to anti-linux zealot.. That's that kind of attitude which prevents people to switch to Windows.. oh wait.. no it doesn't

  55. The real mainstream distros by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While on Slashdot we hear endlessly about Red Hat, Debian, etc., the volume manufacturers are going with Lindows, Linspire, Thiz, and in China, Red Flag. Maybe those should get more coverage. What do the installed base figures look like?

    1. Re:The real mainstream distros by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to burst your buble but the Linspire ( formely know as lindows ) deals come from bundle made by Linspire mostly.

      The volume manufacturing dont go with Linspire (Yet anyway).

      Linspire as an ( aproximative ) instal base of 50k - 100k , the Big 3 ( Mandrakesoft , Red Hat , SuSe ) have confirmed installation of 6 million user each and more and above 20 million user downloading them at each release.

      Even this Deal is not from Dell , its from an italian Dell reseller.

    2. Re:The real mainstream distros by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      The reason Linspire doesn't get much coverage (anymore!) is that it is not what nerds use. In the old days, Lindows claimed they would bring full 100% compatibility with Windows applications. That was news, and certainly didn't go unnoticed on Slashdot.

      Lindows has since (already before their first release) backed off their claim to fame. Now it has become just another Linux distro that targets Windows users. Most of the well-known distros offer an experience quite similar to Linspire, but have been around longer, which is why people (rightly) put more faith in them.

      Lindows made some bad mistakes early on. The most prominent one is probably that they had users run the system as root. This, and the fact that it's very windowsy, and the fact that they name their icons after the function they perform rather than the program they launch, and several more things make Real Linux users shun Linspire.

      Also, quite frankly, there are better distros out there. Linspire is based on Debian. Whenever you hear "based on Debian", you should probably read "took the good work of Debian as a base and perverted it so that it won't work with real Debian anymore". I hear Linspire's compatibility with Debian is quite good, but I am pretty sure all the pretty chrome that it ships with will at best be useless, and at worst will break things horribly one you start using real Debian packages. Debian then seems a better choice - at least you can install applications and upgrade your distro without breaking things, and without paying.

      I wonder if companies shipping Linspire (or Red Hat, for that matter - RPM package management tends to ramble) will improve or damage the reputation of Linux. I think it's not quite ready yet, unless you either like playing with computers, or aren't going to try anything besides just running what comes preloaded. Fortunately, everyone I know falls in either category.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  56. swinery 2.0 by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    You're so far to the right that when a capitalist consumer asks whether they'll get the marketing pitch of a lower price, or whether Dell will just keep the extra profit, you attack them. You're what's known in capitalism as a "pig", with contempt for the consumer. Having a business degree is surely frustrating for a rightwinger in the Bush economy, but that's no reason to join your fellow state capitalists in changing the tone to the high-pitched whine of the bloodsucking mosquito.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:swinery 2.0 by KrackHouse · · Score: 1

      I can't stand Bush. I'm Pro Choice. I know capitalism isn't perfect. I'm working on an Open Source Software project. Do you still think I'm that far right? Did the capitalist consumer ask anything? No the poster made a statement that was clearly untrue. It sounds like neither of you beleive that competition even exists. Is it a myth?

      --
      What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
      http://houndwire.com
    2. Re:swinery 2.0 by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      The original poster wrote:

      " Do they still pay the microsoft tax?"

      That's a question. They didn't mention competition, nor did I address its existence. You came out of nowhere with an attack on them as "soo left" - defining you as "right", unless you're showing selfloathing in addition to frustration. Your selfrighteous comment on your "degree in business" shows you probably misunderstand political "rectitude" to mean "wants to be rich". Your invention of a false statement by the poster, and attempt to put fake words in my post, too, shows you're typical of people afraid to admit they're progressive, out of ignorance of what that entails. BTW, *I* am rich, and I like it. You don't have to act like a political swine to get here, and you can enjoy it much more with a Democrat president than a Republican. I know that I have.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    3. Re:swinery 2.0 by KrackHouse · · Score: 1

      I thought it was clear but I'll quote the part of the post I was referring to. "Consumers will not see lower prices." The only reason consumers won't see lower prices is if competition is non existent. Or do you see any other way to interpret that? You said You came out of nowhere with an attack on them as "soo left" - defining you as "right" That's your conclusion? So you believe that only ultra-liberals could possibly hate a right wing Bush? Did you earn you money or is it inherited? BTW, isn't the following quote selfrighteous too? "*I* am rich, and I like it. IMselfrighteousO, I think the truth probably lies somewhere in between.

      --
      What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
      http://houndwire.com
    4. Re:swinery 2.0 by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Their statement about prices staying the same was preceeded by a statement that they assume that Dell will keep extra profits from this operation. Not only do their statements indicate a knowledge of capitalism more sophisticated than Econ 101, but they are reasonable, even if there is competition. Competition is possible in other aspects than price, especially among American corporations - which real business experience can teach you. I learned it for myself as I made the fortune with my own wits, hard work and luck. I am entitled, therefore, to nothing more than my money, and the wisdom of my experience.

      If someone were to attack Bush, or anyone else, with a "soo right" epithet, it would be fair to expect that they were "left" of Bush. If they further criticized him for authoritarianism, plutocracy, corporatism, or any other emblems of the right, that would support those expectations. I am neither simply "right" nor "left", like most people, nor do I identify as such, as is true of many Americans. But there are so few actual "left" politicians in America that the "center" in this oversimplified model is treated as "left". Since Americans have abandoned the "left", while the "right" treats any opponent as "left", people's political expressions are moving steadily rightward. That's why so many Americans, actually progressive in their values and expectations, vote with "right" politicians who betray them.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  57. lies 423 by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    We do have, in the real world outside your strawman imagination, legions of rightwing corporate dupes who start spouting denials of unalleged collusion. They're necessary to "balance" the truth about collusion between M$ and the PC manufacturers beholden to their monopoly. Climb the stairs and ask your parents - they might gently clue you in. Ask about Santa, too: the truth will surprise you.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:lies 423 by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 1
      Collusion and lying make these people criminals, not "rightwing corporate dupes." I'm not denying that this exists, merely that the grandparent, along with many slashdotters, was just being silly.

      I understand that my post was an exaggeration--but in no way did I imply that corporate crime does not exist.

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
  58. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Exactly. And similarly to Microsoft ThinkTank experiment in GB, they feel that any failure will do less harm in Europe (probably couple of countries anyway). Maybe they are also testing MS reaction. If successful, you can expect substantial initiative in US in a year or two...

  59. Tinfoil helmet ON by cosmo7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    2003: Dell asks MS for bigger discount. MS declines.
    2004: Dell starts selling PCs preloaded with Linspire.
    2005: MS quietly increases discount for Dell.
    2005: Dell quietly withdraws Linspire PCs, claims no market demand.

    1. Re:Tinfoil helmet ON by onion2k · · Score: 2, Funny

      2005: MS withdraw all discounts for Dell.
      2005: MS grant discounts to other OEM PC suppliers.
      2006: Dell have no business customers left.

    2. Re:Tinfoil helmet ON by brokenwndw · · Score: 1

      And behold [the very, very beginning of] a functioning market. Ain't competition grand?

    3. Re:Tinfoil helmet ON by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2006:Dell appears to be in deep doo doo
      2006:Dell does away with pretense of mandatory operating system loads.
      2007:BlueKeyGen 2.1 comes out a month in advance of longhorn widely distributed on the net, AND accidently gets distributed on AOL free 10,000 hour CDs
      2008:profit!

  60. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice leap from "obscure corner of Dell's website" to "Best Buy". You have a long wait until you see Linux pushed on retail buying shitheads.

  61. Netcraft confirms: by lanswitch · · Score: 1

    It was a joke.

  62. Dell not selling them Questar is? by Chuck+Bucket · · Score: 1
    "All Dell computers sold by Questar will be equipped with word processing, spreadsheet, and presentation software and file compatibility with Microsoft Office."

    So Dell isn't selling these, another company is? I remember when Dell "used" to sell Red Hat based boxen for the desktop, but they dropped that, pretty quietly, a time back.

    CB

  63. N-Series by Ibanez · · Score: 2, Informative

    It should be mentioned that they do offer the N-Series desktop, which is pretty much a barebones 2400 (Low end model) with nothing installed (blank hd) and a disk with FreeDOS on it. And this is available to just about anyone. Its a very lowend machine, but not a bad option.

    http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic. as px/featured_nseries?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s= dhs

    Blake

  64. Because Dell no clearly realizes... by bob670 · · Score: 2, Funny

    that it will be easier to support Linux than listen to all the complaints about XP SP2 breaking compatability.

  65. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by Short+Circuit · · Score: 2, Interesting

    when the salesman tells him it's just as good as Windows only cheaper?

    If the salesman does that, he'll probably lose his job. I was at Best Buy yesterday...I was considering picking up VMWare and a copy of WinXP.

    They didn't have VMWare. Looking around, I noticed they didn't even have any distribution of Linux. And no software at all that runs under Linux. (Unless you count games like RTCW where you download the binaries from the website.)

    Stores aren't going to want to sell Linux machines until they can stock their shelves with software that will run on it. Which, ironically enough, is unecessary.

  66. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Interesting
    They didn't have VMWare. Looking around, I noticed they didn't even have any distribution of Linux. And no software at all that runs under Linux. (Unless you count games like RTCW where you download the binaries from the website.)

    I was at a Best Buy yesterday in Emeryville. They had both RedHat WS and Suse 9.1. They also had Rekall (sorry, don't use it - don't like the company), as well as a couple of BSD app collections on CD. And trythfully, I've never seen VMWare in any store.

    I think it really depends on the store's client base whether Linux and apps are stocked or not.

  67. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

    Weird...I was at the one in Grand Haven, MI, and they didn't have anything that ran on a non-MS PC.

    And I have seen VMWare at BBs before. I don't remember which one, though.

  68. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is average joe computer buyer going to respond when he sees that half the PCs at Bestbuy are running some thing called Linux, proudly embossed with the Dell name, when the salesman tells him it's just as good as Windows only cheaper?

    Mad as hell when he gets home and none of his nifty new electronic gadgets work with it, he has to learn seemingly-impossible (for a mortal luser), arcane, cryptic command line stuff to run it, little to no commercial software available for it, and none of the latest games will run on it.

    And, no, *Office doesn't count because it is still crap.

    (Score: -5, Linux-Reality-Check)

  69. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by bechthros · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Microsoft COULD do that, but it'd be a blantant violation of their slap-on-the-wrist agreement with the DoJ."

    And?...

  70. Michael Robertson... by robochan · · Score: 1

    He may be a bit of a prick in a lot of Linux users' eyes, but he's got a set of brass ones and doesn't tend to back down from a fight. He's also a hell of a marketer. He's been pushing Lindows/Linspire, since its inception, as a commercial desktop distro. Other than Mandrake and SuSE, we haven't seen another "Desktop Distro" yet that isn't fairly fringe (ala Xandros and Lycoris), much less one that's been pushed to Major OEMs. Dell "tried" with Redhat not too long ago, but their effert was flaccid at best.
    You may not agree with or like Robertson, but he's taking Linux on a path it may need to go down.

    --
    ...Rob
    The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
    1. Re:Michael Robertson... by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      Lindows: Combining the familiarity of Linux with the security of Windows 95....

      Still, I see this as a good thing.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  71. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Say welcome to your new Master overlord ...

    Hardcore Linux user like/defend freedom , they sell you property right to all the software you use from them.

    The easy to use part is nice , but your selling out your right for a piece of software that is mostly stealing/piggy backing on OSS software.

    Just like YAST whas a problem until Novell made it GPL.

    Click and Run will also be a problem. Not technically or usabily but freedom wise.

  72. The revolution will not be televised by Tarantolato · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you actually bothered to RTFA (which almost no one on this thread has seemingly done), you might have noticed that these PCs will be shipped with the "English or Italian" versions of Linspire.

    This line will not, for the short term, be targetting the French or German markets, where there's been the most high-profile noise about switching. Rather, it seems to be aimed at Britain (where the noise has been mixed and lower-level) and Italy, where I can't recall any high-profile switch stories.

    If there is anything at all to this business plan, it would demonstrate a "trickle-up" story of Linux on the desktop: it's already happening, in small ways that don't make the headlines. Munich and so forth are nice PR, but the revolution will not be televised. It'll probably happen at a dozen dried-octopus dealers in Calabria and Liverpool before it gets past the policy point at the Munich and Paris bureaucracies.

    While we're all focused on the high-profile intending-to-switch cases (some of which will probably go bust anyways), desktop Linux is already being deployed on a small scale, for unfashionable uses, by people who aren't interested in being poster-children for the anyone-but-Microsoft crowd, who are making the switch out of business sense, rather than anti-Americanism.

    This is how Linux made it into the server market in the last decade: at the beginning, adoption was basically driven by admins surreptitiously installing it in firewalls, print servers, file shares, places where the suits wouldn't notice.

    Desktop Linux is like unto a thief in the night. Be watchful for it, but do not expect to see it until it's already made itself at home.

  73. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by GweeDo · · Score: 1

    They didn't sell Unreal 2k3? That has the Linux binaries on the CD. What Unreal 2k4? Cause they binaries are there too. Or Quake 3 Arena...again...binaries there. Last but not least, you can pre-order Doom 3...again...Linux binaries right there! So...while they do sell other things that run on Linux with binaries you download, there are other options that are right on the cd.

  74. Hardly, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Linux is no competition for Microsoft on the desktop market. We have just gotten to the point where "normal" people knows the "Linux" word, but of course, some people might get a shot of Linux how before they install their copied MS windows over the Linux on their Dell machine.

  75. Apt-get works and they respect copywright by Seeker5528 · · Score: 1

    "apt-get doesn't work if you don't pay."

    apt-get works fine if you are willing to take the time to learn what you can and can't do. I use it to install several packages.

    Earlier versions of Linspire were mostly woody with an updated version of KDE. So in every version you have not been able to apt-get KDE apps if you want to maintain the ability to install apps from the warehouse, since the CnR client application is a KDE application.

    Lindows Inc., has been porting software from Sarge into Linspire, but because of limitations in the warehouse client and server software they have made compromises. As a result of this they are in limbo somewhere between Woody and Sarge from the compatibility standpoint.

    Because of these issues apt-get is a mine field for those not allready familiar with the ins and outs of apt-get and solving conflicts that arise.

    The issues with the warehouse software are being worked out and the light at the end of the tunnel is getting close for that process. It remains to be seen what the result of that will be for those of us who install things using apt-get, but I expect it to be much better.

    "They don't respect the GPL (they put a disclaimer that basically say : everything in there is copyrighted by us and us alone, don't steal !)."

    If you include your artwork in an application and limit it's distrobution beause of that, but make the source code minus the artwork available, then there is nothing wrong with that as far as the GPL is concerned.

    It may not be clear when you install Linspire, but there is only a limited amount of stuff that Lindows Inc. claims as it's own that is not released under an open license. The primary thing being the CnR client.

    Later, Seeker

    1. Re:Apt-get works and they respect copywright by Red+Alastor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It was still Lindows when I tested. Some things may have change. In Lindows (the version I got anyway), apt-get simply refused to work.

      And to clarify on the GPL, I know what you can bundle or not but they should write as the other distro that many packages included comes with their own license. Instead the EULA that poped-up when I first ran it, told that *everything* was copyrighted by them.

      --
      Slashdot anagrams to "Sad Sloth"
    2. Re:Apt-get works and they respect copywright by aixou · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Apt-get does work. You have to uncomment some lines in /etc/apt/sources.list, and then you can apt-get to your hearts content. You don't have to use click-n-run at all if you don't want to, but if you want something reliable and that won't break, it can be a nice feature. Not to mention the fact that you get many discounts on commercial apps by being a paying subscriber.

    3. Re:Apt-get works and they respect copywright by Red+Alastor · · Score: 1

      I certainly don't wanted to for a test period. They offered 2 free weeks if I gave them my credit card number (in case I don't cancel after 2 weeks). Without that requirement I would have took the 2 week trial of CNR.

      I must admit I didn't thought about checking the content of /etc/apt/sources.list, I would have been on Debian but I thought that all those kind of things had been taken care of in a distro that was described as so newbie-friendly.

      Anyway, installed Fedora Core 2. Took me less than an hour to configure it the way I liked (not days like someone who wrote an article on it) and I didn't encountered bug yet (even if people claim almost everyday on Slashdot that it is a beta).

      P.S.: The page to read when you installed Fedora to be able to know how to install flash, listen to mp3, use yum and all : www.fedorafaq.org

      --
      Slashdot anagrams to "Sad Sloth"
  76. did anyone else read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    "their download whorehouse" instead of warehouse

  77. Lindows has some cool things about it by hansreiser · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The biggest cool thing is that they really understand average users. They worry seriously about things like how hard it is for users to change the time, and what users will think of having to do more to change the time than click on their clock.

    Also they will be using reiser4 in their next big release.:)

  78. doesn't linspire have by zogger · · Score: 1

    universal "legal" mp3 and dvd playback included with the install? As in no grey market mplayer stuff? That might be a factor as well. And Lindows has been pushing it, they are honestly trying to market it,to make "linux" into something to sell, a business. Witness their deal with walmart for instance. At least they are trying to get linux to the desktop and address some of the issues raised in the "which distro for the raw noob" great debates.

    And I also thought I read they changed that run as root default as well, but maybe I am thinking of another distro that was doing that.

    Disclaimer, never seen it or tried it yet myself

  79. Lindows by mcovey · · Score: 1

    I used Lindows for 5 months on my laptop, as it came with it. It worked fine (if a bit slow) and apt-get worked perfectly until I broke it installing kmldonkey but that was my fault. When 4.5 came out I tryed it but couldn't get used to it and went back to my windows/mandrake duo.

    --
    Amen.
  80. laptops! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about Linux on retail laptops --
    That's what we want!

  81. not accurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    change the thread title

    http://news.com.com/Dell+clarifies+reports+of+Li nu x+PCs+in+Europe/2100-7344_3-5259014.html?tag=nefd. top

    Dell clarifies reports of Linux PCs in Europe
    Last modified: July 6, 2004, 5:35 PM PDT
    By Michael Kanellos
    Staff Writer, CNET News.com

    A PC dealer in Europe has begun selling Dell desktops equipped with Linux, but Dell emphasized that the systems were customized by the dealer and that this isn't the first time this has happened.

    Questar, an Italian-based computer seller, has begun to ship Optiplex business desktops loaded with Linspire 4.5, a version of Linux, and a copy of OpenOffice, an open-source alternative to Microsoft's Office software package. The basic Questar computer, with a 2.4GHz Celeron processor, sells for about $562.

    Dell spokesman Jeremy Bolen acknowledged that Questar is selling Dell PCs with Linux, but noted Dell's dealers are allowed to customize their machines. Although Dell mostly sells its PCs directly to customers, the Texas-based PC giant has an army of integrators and resellers that sell its machines. Often, these integrators are located overseas, where the direct sales model is not as broadly accepted.

    Bolen added that this isn't the first time Dell PCs have come with Linux and that Dell isn't itself selling the machines, an inaccuracy that appeared in several news reports and seems to have come from language in Questar's press release.

    Dell will honor the warranties on the hardware but will not provide service and support for any issues with the software. "It is not Dell factory installed," Bolen explained.

    In 1999, Dell began to offer Linux as a customizable option on its consumer desktops. "Demand was low, so we discontinued offering it," Bolen said.

    Although it dropped the consumer option, Dell made Linux available to corporate customers that signed on for factory configuration services. Dell has also continuously offered Linux on servers and workstations for a number of years. Dell's Linux partner is Red Hat Software; the PC maker has no relationship with Linspire, Bolen said.

    Even with Dell's consumer Linux option gone, savvy buyers can still get a Linux-ready PC from the company. Dell's n-Series of Dimension and Optiplex desktops come with no preloaded operating system. (Because licensing agreements require that Dell ship at least a single operating system with its PCs, the company includes a disk of an open-source version of DOS in the box.)

  82. It's not Dell its a tiny reseller by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    There is no quote from Dell on any of this. If they were involved the Lindows press release would have quoted Dell not a tiny company none of us has heard of before. It appears that there's a tiny reseller of Dell computers (I didn't even know that was possible) that has decided to sell Dell machines with Lindows on it and they're hoping to make extra revenue on support.

    I'd hold on until we see a real Linux desktop like Xandros or SUSE on Dell before I get excited.

  83. Re:No, try $25 cheaper. by SB5 · · Score: 1

    Since when did Dells start getting sold at Best Buy?

    Dell sells from two places that I know of, their stores, and their website. They have very few, and I think no other places to buy Dells. You are thinking of Compaq, and eMachines.

    Dell sells to order. They never carry stock.

    --
    If what you are reading sounds funny, or sarcastic, lame, or stupid
    it is because it is supposed to be. just laugh
  84. Probably because you didn't edit your sources.list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should either CNR or RTFM. You can't have it both ways.

  85. Some n series WS's have Linux factory installed by MojoStan · · Score: 1
    Dells work-around is to sell the machine without a OS installed.
    Am I missing something? Several posts in this forum have said that Dell only offers the n series without an OS installed and a copy of FreeDOS. However, Dell offers five Precision n series workstations with Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS factory installed.

    Are these machines being excluded because they are "workstations" and supposedly not desktops? Isn't the low end Precision 360n close enough to a "desktop" to qualify? It starts at $849 uses the Intel 875P chipset (Pentium 4). The only thing about this model is you're forced to choose a "workstation" graphics card (Quadro or FireGL).

    --
    TO START
    PRESS ANY KEY

    Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

  86. OMFG!!!!! OMFGG!!!!!!! by Rogerborg · · Score: 0, Troll

    THIS IS STHE TMOST IMPORATEWNT THING EVIR!!!!!!!!

    (just like it was the last ten times I read about it)

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  87. bad info.... by twstdr00t · · Score: 1

    AP reports that Dell is working with a "diversified energy company Questar Corp". That's the wrong company.. and Dell didn't actually make the press release. The Questar system builder did. Dell isn't exactly happy with this...

    --

    ---------
    AlmostFreeLinux.com
  88. here is the truth: by osssmkatz · · Score: 1

    As the other posts make very clear, apt-get does work and support is provided for it on the forums--which is free to anyone who buys a copy of Linspire.

    If you do not buy it, but use a coupon code, which was avaliable at several developer-centric sites, you can get help on the guest fourm. One of the Lindows employees is paid to be a 'community liason'.

    You will find that people are extremely grateful for the ease of installing applications, and the OS itself. (though I'm a little confused on that score as it doesn't offer any partitioning of any kind.)

    The Linspire installer offers a introductory screen after installation. If you click Advanced, you can setup other user accounts. 5.0 should go a long way towards encouraging users to configure a regular user account for daily use.

    1. Re:here is the truth: by Red+Alastor · · Score: 1

      It wasn't Linspire yet when I tried it. I might try their LiveCD just to know what it's about but I don't plan installing that thing on my computer anymore.

      I know you can set account by clicking on "Advanced" but how many newbies will click on it ? Writing "Advanced" is the best way to scare newbies. It should instead be easy to do it in the installation. And they don't mention why accounts are important.

      Ease of installing applications can be found in all distribution that have ways to download applications and resolve dependencies by themselves.

      However, I think it is positive that they now acknowledge that they are a Linux distribution. When they were still called Lindows they were acting as if they were a different OS.

      --
      Slashdot anagrams to "Sad Sloth"