Evidence of what? That atheists are closed minded?
Or did you mean Evidence that the Universe is far more complex than the human mind?
Or are you looking for Evidence of God? Since I believe the Universe is God then everything is evidence.
Perhaps you're looking for Evidence or some kind of proof that everything is connected. There are so many examples I don't even know where to start. Ever watch a school of fish? A flock of Birds? Read anything on entanglement? You obviously believe all of your cells combined together form something greater than the cells themselves? Do you really need evidence showing connectivity?
You ask for evidence, but you didn't really clarify what you wanted evidence of. I assume you're wanting evidence that God exists, but as I stated I believe God is everything in the Universe. So it's kind of like asking me to provide evidence that the Universe exists. Sorry, but I simple can't prove the Universe exists, it's just a hunch, but as soon as I have evidence you'll be the first to know...
When we don't know something, we don't make up an answer and believe in it whole-heartedly. We admit we don't know and try and figure it out.
So then you don't believe in your previous statement now? You've made up an answer & believe it whole-heartedly. You said "admit we don't know and try to figure it out.", now you've turned around and declared the opposite. You have me more than a little confused, but I suspect you're a little confused as well, most Agnostics are (especially the one's in denial).
I would love to keep baiting you, but I have a meeting in a few minutes, so no hard feelings.
You see God in everything because you want to. You see a planet perfectly designed with the things we need to live on it and think it's a gift from a God. I see it and think we have evolved to use the planet we have.
Nope, not even close to what I believe, in fact some of what you said makes me wonder if you even read my comment. I don't believe God made anything. I believe God is everything and is the culmination of all that is, was and shall be.
I realize nothing I say will change your mind, but I do want to make sure you don't misunderstand. I don't go to Church, I don't follow a Dogma, nor engage in Ceremonies to appease the spirits. Philosophically I do not consider myself to be a Christian, or a Jew or a Muslim. I believe the bible is a historical document that has been altered over time and the old testament is comprised of fables based on events far older than the written version and contains only a hint of any actual events. I know many "religious people" and many of them feel I'm some kind of heathen, I'm also close friends with a couple Atheists who think I'm a religious loon.
So take from that what you will, I just wanted to make sure you understood that on a personal level I find Atheists to be ignorant, arrogant & self-righteous people who think they have it all figured out, kind of like bible thumpers. I realize you consider yourself an Atheist who doesn't know if God exists, but I see you as more of an Agnostic in denial so please don't take offence at the previous sentence.
True, but when it all comes down to it, one is still believing in a floating guy in space that made everything. It's a bit weird.
That is a kindergarten view of God and I don't know anyone who actually believes that who is over the age of 8. This is why people become Atheists, they think people of faith believe God is some old bearded man who lives on a cloud. In reality the only people who see God that way are Atheists and Agnostics. I see God everywhere and in everything. God is the Universe and the Universe is God. Alpha and Omega Baby!
When we don't know something, we don't make up an answer and believe in it whole-heartedly. We admit we don't know and try and figure it out.
Soooo, then you're an agnostic not an atheist? Or do you not believe in what you just said. Your statement is an absolute, yet you turn around and state that if we don't know an answer then we try to figure it. Kind of sounds like you already made up an answer and believe it completely. Maybe you should take your own advice and admit that you really don't know everything and then go try and figure it out.
Actually the flying spaghetti monster argument is making fun of Atheists, not the other way around. It shows how little Atheists understand. I would assume you consider yourself a person of science, thus you must realize that each of us is comprised of a network of individual living cells that are connected in a manner that creates your sentient mind. Scientifically I don't think anyone can argue with that assumption. So this little ball of gray matter in our heads, made up of billions of living cells, works together to form a single life form. Billions of living things, all working together, to create something greater than the sum of it's parts. Now tell me that the Universe itself isn't just a bit more complex than that ball of gray matter.
I personally find Atheists to be the most closed minded group of people that ever walked the face of this World. Agnostics I can almost understand, at least they haven't closed their minds completely. But to sit there and know how complex the Universe is and to proclaim there is no way the Universe isn't alive and Sentient isn't following 'Occam's razor', it's the opposite. The simple, and logical conclusion, is that larger lifeforms follow the same pattern of smaller lifeforms and together create something greater than the sum of their parts.
Sorry guys, even though most people consider me an uber geek I still buy all my books as a paperback. Sure, I've been known to grab something from Baen's free library or from Project Gutenberg , but it isn't the same. There is nothing like cracking the spine on a freshly printed book. I love me some tech but sometimes, the best tech, is low tech. I still applaud TOR and I'll still buy their books, but just the one's made out of paper.
spoiler: Tor's security isn't worth shit to NSA wanna-be hackers, those guys think have the best mathematicians in the world and also the best computer gear, they act like they could find all the e-mails you've ever sent since you first went on the internet.
Sometimes, the best tech is low tech. We do a lot of work for various political groups on both sides of the spectrum and they all use some kind of electronic form online for people to fill out when contacting politicians on a specific issue. In almost every case these groups will then PRINT and stuff each letter and then hand deliver them to the Politicians official office. These are far more likely to evoke a response and in many cases action. Few politicians can ignore a couple thousand letters being dropped off at their office every week.
The reason I mention this is so everyone understands that the pen really is mightier than the sword, but receiving an individual reply even by sending a letter is unlikely, the volume of paper they are receiving is very high.
How much we all love/hate Microsoft/Apple/Google and hate/love all the other people who do/don't, also how much we all tired of Facebook this and Facebook that (except that one guy who thinks it's awesome...you know who you are).
Because this is America. Despite all the political correctness going around, it is still America. I own a small company, currently I like all my employees. But let's say I find someone who can do a better job than someone I have on staff. Guess what? I might very well ditch an employee for a better one. Not because the first employee did something wrong, but because I want to improve the quality of service I provide my customers. If this turns out to be a poor choice, my company suffers, if it is a good choice, my company thrives. Just because I hire someone doesn't mean I'm making a life long commitment to them. They're here as long as I need them. It also works in reverse, if an employee decides to find a new job where they can grow their career then more power to them, it isn't personal...it's business.
Sorry, I should have clarified. I live in small town America. Personal responsibility, ethics, morals and integrity are kind of a corner stone in this neck of the woods. They may not be saints, but even the local Walmart has been boycotted because of some small transgression that offended the locals.
They'll want you to send it directly to the manufacturer or directly to a Best Buy service Center for repair. I hate to admit it, but once upon a time I worked at a Best Buy Service Center. That's where they fix all the broken stuff Best Buy sells. I could tell you some real horror stories about Best Buy, but that was 10 years ago so maybe they've changed (yeah right). Anyway, I personally won't even go into one of their stores and every chance I get I let people know what a morally corrupt company they were, at least during the 3 years I slaved away at a tech bench for them.
Here's the real issue. We all see this headline differently and have different responses. You see the issue concerning our liberty while I'm busy trying to figure out how to get more lady cops hired and exactly what kind of crime spree I'm going on. Hey, if they're going to take away our freedoms you might as well enjoy it.
I read the health care act. Over 2,000 pages of insanity, but very enlightening. I'll be honest, I understood very little of it and numerous times I started to give up. But it became a personal challenge. After the first 10 pages I don't think my brain really understood any of it, but when discussing the issue it does give me the ability to say "I've read it, have you?" which generally changes the conversation from the merits of the law to the insanity of how it is written.
I'm not sure we could advance quickly enough to pose a real threat. At most we may become an irritant, like ants and termites. Of course we do wipe out Ants and Termites, so your conclusion is very valid. However we're still at the stage of global development where our biggest threat is ourselves. We stand a very large chance of knocking ourselves back to the stone age with very little effort, assuming natural disaster doesn't do it first.
Destroying an entire civilization takes a lot of effort and since we can't even seem to put a colony on our own moon, much less get out of the solar system, I doubt we pose enough of a threat to an interstellar race of beings for them to much forth much effort in squishing us... unless they do those things for fun, which is highly probable.
Regardless, I think we can all agree that if they do decide to wipe us out, it won't be anything like the movies, they'll just engineer a bio weapon and drop it in the oceans and wipe us out without a single shot being fired.
You're assuming that we would qualify as being "sentient". Looking at the current state of affairs I think our current civilization wouldn't pose a threat to anyone more advanced than us. It would be like us finding ants or termites and then deciding to exterminate them... oh wait a second, hmmm. maybe you are right.
Self Defined? You're right. Very well put. Quality is no guarantee of "success", but it is definitely a worthwhile goal and marker for determining success. I only asked because I've used many open source projects and often times there is a lack of quality despite some of those projects having had great "success" (popularity?). Overtime their quality often improves, but in some cases the project never really improves and eventually dies off or is forked by someone who does care enough about the project's quality to adopt it and improve upon it.
A filet and a hamburger are not the same thing. It's like comparing french fries and potato chips. With that being said, McDonald's makes an awesome dbl cheeseburger considering it's $1 and won't rot for decades. I personally don't eat there because it make me ill, but since they've sold 500 quadrillion hamburgers I'd say they are successful, disgusting, but successful. That's what this conversation is about, success, not quality. Hmmm, so I guess we can knock off quality as a marker of success. Anyone disagree with that?
That's the silliest thing I've ever read. Anyone with half a mind knows it wasn't built by Aliens, it was built by a previously advanced civilization on Earth that now controls our governments from the safety of their Lunar Habitat. Geesh, get an education or at least watch the History Channel!
Slashdot Mirror
Evidence of what? That atheists are closed minded?
Or did you mean Evidence that the Universe is far more complex than the human mind?
Or are you looking for Evidence of God? Since I believe the Universe is God then everything is evidence.
Perhaps you're looking for Evidence or some kind of proof that everything is connected. There are so many examples I don't even know where to start. Ever watch a school of fish? A flock of Birds? Read anything on entanglement? You obviously believe all of your cells combined together form something greater than the cells themselves? Do you really need evidence showing connectivity?
You ask for evidence, but you didn't really clarify what you wanted evidence of. I assume you're wanting evidence that God exists, but as I stated I believe God is everything in the Universe. So it's kind of like asking me to provide evidence that the Universe exists. Sorry, but I simple can't prove the Universe exists, it's just a hunch, but as soon as I have evidence you'll be the first to know...
When we don't know something, we don't make up an answer and believe in it whole-heartedly. We admit we don't know and try and figure it out.
So then you don't believe in your previous statement now? You've made up an answer & believe it whole-heartedly. You said "admit we don't know and try to figure it out.", now you've turned around and declared the opposite. You have me more than a little confused, but I suspect you're a little confused as well, most Agnostics are (especially the one's in denial).
I would love to keep baiting you, but I have a meeting in a few minutes, so no hard feelings.
You see God in everything because you want to. You see a planet perfectly designed with the things we need to live on it and think it's a gift from a God. I see it and think we have evolved to use the planet we have.
Nope, not even close to what I believe, in fact some of what you said makes me wonder if you even read my comment. I don't believe God made anything. I believe God is everything and is the culmination of all that is, was and shall be.
I realize nothing I say will change your mind, but I do want to make sure you don't misunderstand. I don't go to Church, I don't follow a Dogma, nor engage in Ceremonies to appease the spirits. Philosophically I do not consider myself to be a Christian, or a Jew or a Muslim. I believe the bible is a historical document that has been altered over time and the old testament is comprised of fables based on events far older than the written version and contains only a hint of any actual events. I know many "religious people" and many of them feel I'm some kind of heathen, I'm also close friends with a couple Atheists who think I'm a religious loon.
So take from that what you will, I just wanted to make sure you understood that on a personal level I find Atheists to be ignorant, arrogant & self-righteous people who think they have it all figured out, kind of like bible thumpers. I realize you consider yourself an Atheist who doesn't know if God exists, but I see you as more of an Agnostic in denial so please don't take offence at the previous sentence.
So you're an agnostic in denial?
True, but when it all comes down to it, one is still believing in a floating guy in space that made everything. It's a bit weird.
That is a kindergarten view of God and I don't know anyone who actually believes that who is over the age of 8. This is why people become Atheists, they think people of faith believe God is some old bearded man who lives on a cloud. In reality the only people who see God that way are Atheists and Agnostics. I see God everywhere and in everything. God is the Universe and the Universe is God. Alpha and Omega Baby!
When we don't know something, we don't make up an answer and believe in it whole-heartedly. We admit we don't know and try and figure it out.
Soooo, then you're an agnostic not an atheist? Or do you not believe in what you just said. Your statement is an absolute, yet you turn around and state that if we don't know an answer then we try to figure it. Kind of sounds like you already made up an answer and believe it completely. Maybe you should take your own advice and admit that you really don't know everything and then go try and figure it out.
Actually the flying spaghetti monster argument is making fun of Atheists, not the other way around. It shows how little Atheists understand. I would assume you consider yourself a person of science, thus you must realize that each of us is comprised of a network of individual living cells that are connected in a manner that creates your sentient mind. Scientifically I don't think anyone can argue with that assumption. So this little ball of gray matter in our heads, made up of billions of living cells, works together to form a single life form. Billions of living things, all working together, to create something greater than the sum of it's parts. Now tell me that the Universe itself isn't just a bit more complex than that ball of gray matter.
I personally find Atheists to be the most closed minded group of people that ever walked the face of this World. Agnostics I can almost understand, at least they haven't closed their minds completely. But to sit there and know how complex the Universe is and to proclaim there is no way the Universe isn't alive and Sentient isn't following 'Occam's razor', it's the opposite. The simple, and logical conclusion, is that larger lifeforms follow the same pattern of smaller lifeforms and together create something greater than the sum of their parts.
Seriously, do you want to have a hot makeout session with a 5-limbed cross between a cockroach and a slime mold from Rigel 7.
Sounds like my first year of college. At the time it seemed fun, but you're right Rigelians are so over possessive.
Sorry guys, even though most people consider me an uber geek I still buy all my books as a paperback. Sure, I've been known to grab something from Baen's free library or from Project Gutenberg , but it isn't the same. There is nothing like cracking the spine on a freshly printed book. I love me some tech but sometimes, the best tech, is low tech. I still applaud TOR and I'll still buy their books, but just the one's made out of paper.
spoiler: Tor's security isn't worth shit to NSA wanna-be hackers, those guys think have the best mathematicians in the world and also the best computer gear, they act like they could find all the e-mails you've ever sent since you first went on the internet.
FTFY
Sometimes, the best tech is low tech. We do a lot of work for various political groups on both sides of the spectrum and they all use some kind of electronic form online for people to fill out when contacting politicians on a specific issue. In almost every case these groups will then PRINT and stuff each letter and then hand deliver them to the Politicians official office. These are far more likely to evoke a response and in many cases action. Few politicians can ignore a couple thousand letters being dropped off at their office every week.
The reason I mention this is so everyone understands that the pen really is mightier than the sword, but receiving an individual reply even by sending a letter is unlikely, the volume of paper they are receiving is very high.
...what are we talking about again?
How much we all love/hate Microsoft/Apple/Google and hate/love all the other people who do/don't, also how much we all tired of Facebook this and Facebook that (except that one guy who thinks it's awesome...you know who you are).
We have illustrators?
Because this is America. Despite all the political correctness going around, it is still America. I own a small company, currently I like all my employees. But let's say I find someone who can do a better job than someone I have on staff. Guess what? I might very well ditch an employee for a better one. Not because the first employee did something wrong, but because I want to improve the quality of service I provide my customers. If this turns out to be a poor choice, my company suffers, if it is a good choice, my company thrives. Just because I hire someone doesn't mean I'm making a life long commitment to them. They're here as long as I need them. It also works in reverse, if an employee decides to find a new job where they can grow their career then more power to them, it isn't personal...it's business.
Sorry, I should have clarified. I live in small town America. Personal responsibility, ethics, morals and integrity are kind of a corner stone in this neck of the woods. They may not be saints, but even the local Walmart has been boycotted because of some small transgression that offended the locals.
They'll want you to send it directly to the manufacturer or directly to a Best Buy service Center for repair. I hate to admit it, but once upon a time I worked at a Best Buy Service Center. That's where they fix all the broken stuff Best Buy sells. I could tell you some real horror stories about Best Buy, but that was 10 years ago so maybe they've changed (yeah right). Anyway, I personally won't even go into one of their stores and every chance I get I let people know what a morally corrupt company they were, at least during the 3 years I slaved away at a tech bench for them.
Here's the real issue. We all see this headline differently and have different responses. You see the issue concerning our liberty while I'm busy trying to figure out how to get more lady cops hired and exactly what kind of crime spree I'm going on. Hey, if they're going to take away our freedoms you might as well enjoy it.
I read the health care act. Over 2,000 pages of insanity, but very enlightening. I'll be honest, I understood very little of it and numerous times I started to give up. But it became a personal challenge. After the first 10 pages I don't think my brain really understood any of it, but when discussing the issue it does give me the ability to say "I've read it, have you?" which generally changes the conversation from the merits of the law to the insanity of how it is written.
I'm not sure we could advance quickly enough to pose a real threat. At most we may become an irritant, like ants and termites. Of course we do wipe out Ants and Termites, so your conclusion is very valid. However we're still at the stage of global development where our biggest threat is ourselves. We stand a very large chance of knocking ourselves back to the stone age with very little effort, assuming natural disaster doesn't do it first.
Destroying an entire civilization takes a lot of effort and since we can't even seem to put a colony on our own moon, much less get out of the solar system, I doubt we pose enough of a threat to an interstellar race of beings for them to much forth much effort in squishing us... unless they do those things for fun, which is highly probable.
Regardless, I think we can all agree that if they do decide to wipe us out, it won't be anything like the movies, they'll just engineer a bio weapon and drop it in the oceans and wipe us out without a single shot being fired.
You're assuming that we would qualify as being "sentient". Looking at the current state of affairs I think our current civilization wouldn't pose a threat to anyone more advanced than us. It would be like us finding ants or termites and then deciding to exterminate them... oh wait a second, hmmm. maybe you are right.
Self Defined? You're right. Very well put. Quality is no guarantee of "success", but it is definitely a worthwhile goal and marker for determining success. I only asked because I've used many open source projects and often times there is a lack of quality despite some of those projects having had great "success" (popularity?). Overtime their quality often improves, but in some cases the project never really improves and eventually dies off or is forked by someone who does care enough about the project's quality to adopt it and improve upon it.
A filet and a hamburger are not the same thing. It's like comparing french fries and potato chips. With that being said, McDonald's makes an awesome dbl cheeseburger considering it's $1 and won't rot for decades. I personally don't eat there because it make me ill, but since they've sold 500 quadrillion hamburgers I'd say they are successful, disgusting, but successful. That's what this conversation is about, success, not quality. Hmmm, so I guess we can knock off quality as a marker of success. Anyone disagree with that?
That's the silliest thing I've ever read. Anyone with half a mind knows it wasn't built by Aliens, it was built by a previously advanced civilization on Earth that now controls our governments from the safety of their Lunar Habitat. Geesh, get an education or at least watch the History Channel!
I stand corrected. It's true, I am a "Meat Popsicle". I was just ashamed to admit it.
They'll never do it. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get Windows 7 to work on a token ring?