Re:Theres no scientific proof for any of this.
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The burden of proof is on you. I've backed up my posts with facts, because certain people want to say "Hey you cant post here without backing up your claims with evidence"
or they may say " Why did you take the time to reply if you weren't going to add anything new? Provide supporting evidence to your position or shut up. That's the problem with online message boards these days, everyone thinks their opinion is gospel and that it should be obvious that you're right. "
Re:Theres no scientific proof for any of this.
on
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Ok, heres some supporting evidence. You can follow my sources of research.
"Methylphenidate should not be used in children under 6 years of age, since safety and efficacy in this age group have not been established.
Although a causal relationship has not been established, suppression of growth (i.e. weight gain and/or height) has been reported with the long-term use of stimulants in children. Therefore, patients requiring long-term therapy should be carefully monitored. In addition, the use of "Drug Holidays" is recommended, that is, withholding the drug on weekends and during school holidays in as much as the clinical situation permits.
Methylphenidate should not be used for severe depression of either exogenous or endogenous origin. Clinical experience suggests that in psychotic children, administration of methylphenidate may exacerbate symptoms of behavior disturbance and thought disorder.
Methylphenidate should not be used for the prevention or treatment of normal fatigue states. There is some clinical evidence that methylphenidate may lower the convulsive threshold in patients with prior history of seizures, with prior EEG abnormalities in absence of seizures and, very rarely, in patients with no prior EEG evidence nor history of seizures. Safe concomitant use of anticonvulsants and methylphenidate has not been established. In the presence of seizures, the drug should be discontinued. Use cautiously in patients with hypertension. Blood pressure should be monitored at appropriate intervals in all patients taking methylphenidate, especially those with hypertension." source7a source7b source8
source9Yet, "since the late 1990s, a spate of scientific research has begun to establish that adults do generate new brain cells in some regions of the brain, well into old age.
And now, for the first time, scientists have seen that new neurons become functional members of the brain, forging new connections and firing "action potentials" like any other neuron.
Although this latest discovery has only been observed in the brains of mice, the analogy to humans suggests that the rules of the card game have indeed changed. It also points toward new directions in potential therapies for neurological disorders or brain injuries."
Source10 "biologists at Princeton University have found that thousands of freshly born neurons arrive each day in the cerebral cortex, the outer rind of the brain where higher intellectual functions and personality are centered."
Re:Theres no scientific proof for any of this.
on
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"Medicines are NOT some ultra-fast route to hyper-concentration OR intelligence. Nearly ANYBODY out there can concentrate on a task better than I can, if anything, taking pills would give THEM an unfair advantage, except that most of the medicines that work so well for ADHD sufferers end up doing something in between jack squat to the exact opposite of their ADHD treatment effects to non-ADHD sufferers."
This is wrong. Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors work in non ADD persons as well as people with ADD. These work by simply preventing the wires in the brain from breaking down in the first place, or at least thats the easiest way I can explain it without getting too scientific.
This benefits everyone. "Rather than using the neurotransmitters themselves as drugs, the approach has been to get more of these vital signal molecules released into the synapse, or to block the enzymes that break them down once they have done their job. Either way, you keep more neurotransmitters in the synapse for longer, improving communication between the cells. The more we learn about brain chemistry the more sophisticated such drugs become." Source:How it works
"The damn stuff is chemically addictive, if I don't take my pills I literally fall asleep the entire day. Sucks.
If I do not take my Luvox at night my brain races along to fast for me to get to sleep. Ever. That right there is not even a chemical side effect, that is just ADHD in all its grandure, sure I have a brain possessing an IQ of 156, but getting sleep at night sure is a nice thing and that IQ of 156 doesn't want to go to bed at night with me, rather it would keep on ratteling off about whatever comes to mind (har har)."
Take your Luvox, I'm not worried about you being on Luvox, I'm worried about people like me on Luvox just to get an edge on me. My current IQ is 164(or in the 160s), not that it matters but imagine the advantage I'd have if I were on some pill to make me concentrate 100% on something?
You see the problem isnt you being on these pills, the problem is we live in a competitive world, I must get a better grade than you and everyone else no matter what, I must have a perfect GPA no matter what, and alot of people are willing to hide behind pills and a disability just to get an edge. You arent doing this, but alot of people are and they give YOU a bad name because they make it seem like you are hiding behind your pills and taking advantage of the system.
Come to your conclusions based on the data. The data currently leads to the conclusion that these drugs do benefit average people.
Do not post a response to this unless you have done your research and you have sources backing up your claims. Learn about anatomy and the current treatments or shut up with these ridiculous unsubstantiated OPINIONS
The brain adapts to use, research leads us to believe the brain is like any other muscle, use it or lose it.
So the try harder talk actually does make sense. Kinda like what you can tell a fat person. Of course some people want to believe fat people have a disease.
Heres some evidence. To anyone who argued with me.
on
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"You don't know what you're talking about. Scientist have a poor understanding of how cortical circuits work. They don't even know how circuits of a few hundred neurons are structured, let alone large sections of cortex. Concentration is a complicated phenomenon and we are not even close to reaching an explanation. Until we understand how it works, any talk of the rate of "wiring" being related to concentration is pure speculation."
These same scientists claim to know what ADD is. We dont truely understand ADD, we dont truely understand the brain, I'm just telling you what scientists are currently saying, what the current theories are. It is believed that the brains wiring is setup based on use. This could mean that the brain actually gets better at things based on use, and this is part of the reason I'm against pills for most people with ADD.
Progressive myelination has already been demonstrated to be one of the mechanisms that facilitates long-term learning of complex tasks and concepts, such as language development. People with significant myelin deficits suffer from severe mental problems and are generally not functional in society if they even make it to adulthood. It is obviously not the cause of ADD. The root cause(s) of ADD are likely to be in the lower brain functions that control melatonin regulation and/or the dopamine regulation system (a specific gene with three variations that influences dopamine levels has been identified as being possibly related to ADD). There may also be structural differences in isolated areas of the prefrontal cortex, but no specific differences have been identified.
According to specific studies and research the ADD brain develops and grows in a different way than the normal brain, its this difference in how it grows that alot of people believe is the root cause of ADD.
An ADD person's frontal lobes simply developers later than the average person, sometimes it never develops at all, such as in your case.
This is why I call it a genetic trait, some men grow beards at age 14, some men are in their 20s and just growing their beard, and then we have men who never grow beards in their life.
This is a genetic feature, this is why I call the brains development deliberate. The chemical imbalance theory if it were true, would mean an ADD brain would be exactly the same as a normal brain in terms of how it looks physically, it would also mean you cannot grow out of it, if its a chemical imbalance the chance of you growing out of that is slim, of course ADD could be caused by many different reasons.
"r. People seek treatment because the symptoms of ADD bother them. Medication often helps. I don't understand why you and a lot of other people have such a huge problem with that. If medication makes someone's life better, then stop telling them that they should do something different because you are personally uncomforable with medicating mental disorders.
I'm not saying people cant use pills, I'm saying do not advocate pills. When the original poster asked me for advice, I told him advice.
You can have your pills, I just dont like the fact that people try to make pills the cure when its not a true cure, its just management.
Yeah and Bill Clinton did not have sexual relations with that woman.
Dude stop making up stories, the WMD were most likely destroyed, theres not a trace of it left. What river are you talking about? Americans dont care anymore? You mean Americans who are republicans dont care, everyone else does care.
I'm indepedent, I dont trust Bush, I never did, I dont trust any politician, Bush has ruined any chance that I'll trust him by being suspicious.
I know Clinton lied, and Clinton was almost Impeached for it, now its Bush's turn.
We agree on one thing, the current Admin is not doing their job. You are a republican but even you know by now that Bush is no Ronald Reagan.
What Bush is doing is pretending to be a conservative when actually hes not, he increased spending through the roof, hes just giving money away to Africa, and all these other countries, 15 billion and other huge numbers. Hes actually given tax cuts, but these tax cuts arent going to help the economy because he gives most of these cuts to big business, the same big business busy hiring your good buddies in India.
So by giving a tax cut to big business hes giving more of our jobs to India. Then he does something like this, which makes absolutely no sense, does something like this to protect one really small sector like this, it doesnt make any sense. I'm not saying its bad, I'm saying he isnt doing this for the right reasons or on a large enough scale.
Well no you are right, all the jobs should be kept here.
I'm bitching at the President because hes the leader of the free world and hes not doing shit. Hes not doing anything at all to improve this economy, he has done absolutely NOTHING thats why I bitch.
Until he produces results, I'm going to be pissed, oh and wheres Bin Laden, wheres Saddam? Wheres the weapons of mass destruction? Why arent our borders secure?
Oh and Bush is currently being investigated, for all we know the whole Iraq war could have been one big hoax.
Because until a child reaches a certain age, usually between 12-15 (but it depends on the child), they are not capable of making coherent decisions in most situations. That's why we call them "children", as distinguished from "adults".
You've made a critical error. Children are also known to have short attention spans, be more energetic, and its almost expected that most kids arent interested in doing their homework.
You werent born with pneumonia, pneumonia kills, pneumonia harms everyone else. You cannot compare this to ADD
I dont think you have the right to force a child on medication the child doesnt want. You dont understand the side effects, if there werent any side effects they'd be over the counter and everyone would be taking them.
The children are who I'm most worried about, people like you who want to force kids on pills and medicate their disorders, this is a kid, the kid didnt choose this, you did.
Why dont you ask your kid if they WANT to be on ritalin?
I'm having one of those times right now, my solution? Some coke, usually helps me just fine.
Look Mr.Grendel, you DONT have a disease, your brain is hardwired in a different way, your frontal lobes are properly developed, this is the cause of ADD. Chemical imbalances are always caused by physical reasons, most of the time they are caused due to the way the brain developed according to YOUR genetic blueprint.
You are designed in a way which is not compatible with certain aspects of society, so what? Everyone else has design problems too, no ones a perfect fit.
ADD is not chronic, its not permenant, in fact you could wake up toomorrow and it could be gone. There is no such thing as a normal brain, despite what you keep saying. Everyone benefits from these drugs, why do you think caffeine is so popular? We just dont benefit to the level you do because we dont need these drugs everyday, but we all have a use for these drugs at certain times.
When a person has trouble concentrating, its the same cause as ADD, its because of a chemical imbalance, a normal person has more developed frontal lobes, so these things dont happen as often, but they still do happen.
I've done plenty of research on this, I'm telling you that its a fact, an absolute FACT that ADD is something everyone has in various degrees.
It is also a FACT that alot of kids simply grow out of ADD as their brain develops.
Its true, its rare for adults with this condition to ever recover from it, but its still a possibility, even the adult brain rewires itself, not as efficiently as a teenage brain or a growing brain, but it does happen in rare occassions.
What I'm saying is, a simple short circuit in my brains wiring and I'll had ADD like condition while my brain is trying to figure out whats going on.
What could cause a short circuit? Anything, poor nutrition, lack of sleep, or just a bad day can cause my frontal lobes which have more advanced wiring than yours, to not work properly.
You see the brain works just like the internet, there are nodes and networks, if you cut off bloodflow to a certain node, it can screw up the whole network which needs that wire to connect to the other group of nodes.
What happens is, as you reach around age 18-25, your brain stops building new wires at the same rate, this means that yes your brain can go foggy, it also means that if your brain doesnt rebuild new wires in your frontal lobes you could actually lose your ability to concentrate until your brain builds new wires.
Its like me cutting off the electricity to a section of a network and watching all the nodes shut down, the re-arrange the network and turn the electricity on again. Usually this happens as we sleep but sometimes it happens when we are wide awake.
By the adult age the (usually by age 25) the brains wires build a protective coating on its wiring, and its this coating that keeps the so called normal people from having ADD like symptoms.
This can allow a kid to grow out of ADD by age 25. There is a chance they can regress as they age, but the speed of your regresson depends on which areas of your brain that you use. The areas you do not use are the parts of your brain which do not rebuild new wires and your brain specializes better in what its good at. This means as you grow older, your brain becomes more focused and specific at what its good at and ignores what its not.
I think the cause of ADD is genetic, I think its a deliberate feature, this is why I dont call it a disease. ADD actually has uses in a humans biological function.
Diabetes just kills, this is the difference. Asthma just kills, and both these diseases can be caused by the enviornment while ADD is genetic.
First its not proven to be permenent, I had it and grew out of it.
Second its something everyone has at certain levels, just like teenagers when they are a teen might have short tempers and grow out of that.
Third its not a disability, and thats the main gripe I have with people, trying to act like ADD is an actual disability, you may have a difficult time learning, a difficult time working, but it doesnt mean that you cant work and you cant learn.
Being blind, thats a disability.
Wearing glasses however is not a disability.
see the difference.
Alot of people need glasses but do fine never wearing them at all, some people have perfect 20/20 all their life, some people grow up and get a certain age and just go blind.
Just because ADD is difficult for you and you need pills to manage doesnt mean everyone else does too.
Diabetes unlike what people claim, is reverseable unless its a certain TYPE, and in that case you need insulin shots.
Your problem is management in most people, just not you.
I myself only have to worry about losing focus from time to time, I guess I grew out of it and you didnt. Could I benefit from some drug to help me concentrate once in a while? Hell yes, I could benefit from a drug to help me study for tests, or help make me do homework, etc.
I could also definately use a drug to help me focus on doing boring as hell math problems 1000 times each for 12 hours a day 7 days a week so that I can finally get calculus, but you know what? I dont even have that option, because people who dont have ADHD 24/7 are considered normal.
What happens if it comes test time and one of my bouts of ADD kicks in and I cant concentrate, looks like I fail the test, while you get to hide behind your pills and pass.
See what I'm saying? if we are going to say ADD is an actual disorder its not something that certain people have and certain people dont have, its something that everyone has in various amounts, some people have the problem 24/7 while most people only have the problem for short periods of time, little bouts here and there.
If we all however have programs concentrating, why not release the drug over the counter?
We all get depressed, but not all of us are manic depressed, however I can still get treatment for depression if I get depressed ever once in a while.
We all get angry, some people are always angry, but for the people who get angry for a short period of time, theres anger management and pills,
Why is ADD treated like Asthma, instead of like all the other various brain troubles people seem to all have.
Its not exclusive to you, this is what I'm saying. When you try to label yourself as ADD or whatever, to the outsider who gets these same symptoms but who isnt on pills, they see you are hiding behind your pills, playing the victim, etc etc
Someone who occassionally gets depressed but who got over it, says the same thing about a manic depressed person whos always like that, you see.
So maybe you do need medication, so does everyone else in the country, why should you get medication while we dont?
Thats the question. Also why should you get extra time to take tests, and get special treatment in colleges while the rest of us have to deal with time limits?
You know, on an off day anyone is capable of doing bad on a test because they couldnt focus, I've done bad on a test simply because I was so stressed out with life thatI couldnt focus on the test, am I going and calling myself disabled and asking for special treatment?
anyhow you see my point of view, and I see yours. I'm not attacking you in specific, I'm attacking the people who try to pretend to be like you so they can get an edge over people like me.
Its popular now to have ADD and take ritalin, in fact college students are deliberately getting themselves diagnosed just so they can get better grades.
Not true, when I was diagnosed with it as a kid, I had never really complained about it, teachers were complaining about me.
Big difference, you are an adult who ASKED for pills because you couldnt cope. Thats the difference.
I'm not against people using meds when they actually need them, I'm against doctors who suggest meds to people who may not actually need them, to people who can manage their own ADD, or who may grow out of it.
"Other than the fact that they contain a controlled substance, they simply don't work well in people without the disease. I don't know the hard data on Adderall, but with Ritalin the results substantially differ between ADD and non-ADD patients. When given to a patient without ADD the patient experiences a very mild improvement in concentration, considered insignificant compared to the drug's risks. When a patient with ADD receives the drug, the change is substantial, far outweighing (for many) the risks."
I keep trying to tell you its not a disease. Everyone gets angry, everyone gets depressed, everyone loses focus from time to time, these pills would help everyone under certain situations.
Just like everyone from time to time has a headache, while some people have headaches all the time, asprin is sold in stores because most people have them sometimes.
The improvement you talk about is when ritalin is given to a person on a daily basis, yes the average person doesnt need it every day, but I often have days where I just cant focus, where my mind feels foggy, I cant think, ritalin would be good for those days.
Re:Theres no scientific proof for any of this.
on
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I'm not saying its obvious that I'm right, but can you prove its obvious that I'm wrong? If you cant then you have no right to comment.
its not so much a missing gene, its a gene which tells the brain how to develop.
Everyones brain develops in different areas at its own set rate and some brains never develop in certain areas.
The frontal lobe area being underdeveloped is the cause for ADD.
This is the exact point I was trying to make
on
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In my series of posts, your post makes exactly the point I attempt to make.
Re:Theres no scientific proof for any of this.
on
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You would be laughed at, it is a social disability.
I don't see how its a disability at all. I see it as a feature, a trait.
A competent doctor (admittedly getting harder and harder to find by the day. . ..) would advice for therapy, much higher success rate and all.:) (I went in for a dual therapy / meds approach)
I see it like this, we either treat this problem like its supposed to be treated, or we just make the pills over the counter. If we are going to treat it like we treat depression, therapy should be the first option, not pills. This is not the cause currently as pills seem to be the first and last option for most people.
HOW THE FUCKING HELL IS MANIC DEPRESSION A PERSONALITY TRAIT.
Please explain to me how the f*ck people trying to KILL THEMSELVES is a freakin PERSONALITY TRAIT.
In the same way that intelligence, creativity, or the ability to focus on an intense level is a personality trait. Who gives you or I the right to decide which traits and good and which are bad?
Yeesh, next you are going to tell me that OCD is just a personality trait to! (Oh it is perfectly A-OK that she cut her fingernails down to the point of SEVERELY BLEEDING, bleck!) M
You are trying to change the subject.
An alternative view, pills can allow a person's natural traits to come out instead of being OVERRIDDEN by a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE.
There is no such thing as a "normal" person. Everyone has traits which benefit them and society and which dont. There is not a single person on planet earth with the perfect mix of traits and genes. People either have short tempers, depression, anxiety problems, ADD, Socialpath/Psychopath,Dyslexia etc. There is no such thing as a normal person. So please do not tell me that you are somehow "normal" due to a pill, you are simply hiding the real you using the pill so that you may better fit into what society expects from you.
Without the pills it doesn't much matter because I do not have any control as to what I do!
My point is, pills are not a real solution, yes pills can allow you to function in society easier, can allow you to fit in better, and hide your problem from both society and yourself, but by hiding your problem from society, society never learns to properly handle people with ADD. Teachers will never learn to teach or understand people who think different if all those who think different are on meds forcing them to think same.
Now, if you cannot function at all without meds, thats different, if a person is so depressed they will commit suicide without meds, thats different, most people however do not fit into these extremes. Most people who are depressed arent suicidal, most people who have ADD can focus for short periods of time. Theres different levels.
I personally use Dexedrine, which has the side effects of SHARPENING my concentration and SPEEDING up my mind. Soon after taking my dosage I can work damn near miraculous math problems in my head and figure out the solution to just about any other type of problem put forth to me.
Without my medicine, darned if I can focus on a task long enough to even get to my chair to get started on it!
But as for side effects, yah there are a ton of them. Medicines like many of the ones we are talking about are by NO MEANS perfectly safe. They are to be prescribed VERY CAREFULLY.
My point is this, every person on the planet suffers the symptoms of ADD at some level. Most of us however control the impulse to think or do something else. This control comes from how the brain is wired, not so much chemical balance.
You have a very severe case of ADD, you cannot control it, you actually need the meds, I'm not against you using them if you need them, the point I'm making is most people do not actually need them.
I see it like this, if these drugs actually work, we should m
Also let me ask you a question, when you watch a movie do you lose train of thought in the middle of that movie or show? Do you forget you are watching a movie and drift off? If you cannot focus at all then maybe you do need pills.
However most people who have ADD, its not nearly as severe.
Another question, if the pills you use are so harmless and safe, yet effective, why arent these pills over the counter?
Why cant students who need to study for a test buy AdderAll? Why can only certain people use it?
Slashdot Mirror
The burden of proof is on you. I've backed up my posts with facts, because certain people want to say "Hey you cant post here without backing up your claims with evidence"
or they may say
" Why did you take the time to reply if you weren't going to add anything new? Provide supporting evidence to your position or shut up. That's the problem with online message boards these days, everyone thinks their opinion is gospel and that it should be obvious that you're right.
"
Ok, heres some supporting evidence. You can follow my sources of research.
Source1
source3
source4
source5
source6 Warning Warnings
"Methylphenidate should not be used in children under 6 years of age, since safety and efficacy in this age group have not been established.
Although a causal relationship has not been established, suppression of growth (i.e. weight gain and/or height) has been reported with the long-term use of stimulants in children. Therefore, patients requiring long-term therapy should be carefully monitored. In addition, the use of "Drug Holidays" is recommended, that is, withholding the drug on weekends and during school holidays in as much as the clinical situation permits.
Methylphenidate should not be used for severe depression of either exogenous or endogenous origin. Clinical experience suggests that in psychotic children, administration of methylphenidate may exacerbate symptoms of behavior disturbance and thought disorder.
Methylphenidate should not be used for the prevention or treatment of normal fatigue states.
There is some clinical evidence that methylphenidate may lower the convulsive threshold in patients with prior history of seizures, with prior EEG abnormalities in absence of seizures and, very rarely, in patients with no prior EEG evidence nor history of seizures. Safe concomitant use of anticonvulsants and methylphenidate has not been established. In the presence of seizures, the drug should be discontinued. Use cautiously in patients with hypertension. Blood pressure should be monitored at appropriate intervals in all patients taking methylphenidate, especially those with hypertension."
source7a
source7b
source8
source9 Yet, "since the late 1990s, a spate of scientific research has begun to establish that adults do generate new brain cells in some regions of the brain, well into old age.
And now, for the first time, scientists have seen that new neurons become functional members of the brain, forging new connections and firing "action potentials" like any other neuron.
Although this latest discovery has only been observed in the brains of mice, the analogy to humans suggests that the rules of the card game have indeed changed. It also points toward new directions in potential therapies for neurological disorders or brain injuries."
Source10
"biologists at Princeton University have found that thousands of freshly born neurons arrive each day in the cerebral cortex, the outer rind of the brain where higher intellectual functions and personality are centered."
"Medicines are NOT some ultra-fast route to hyper-concentration OR intelligence. Nearly ANYBODY out there can concentrate on a task better than I can, if anything, taking pills would give THEM an unfair advantage, except that most of the medicines that work so well for ADHD sufferers end up doing something in between jack squat to the exact opposite of their ADHD treatment effects to non-ADHD sufferers."
This is wrong. Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors work in non ADD persons as well as people with ADD. These work by simply preventing the wires in the brain from breaking down in the first place, or at least thats the easiest way I can explain it without getting too scientific.
This benefits everyone.
"Rather than using the neurotransmitters themselves as drugs, the approach has been to get more of these vital signal molecules released into the synapse, or to block the enzymes that break them down once they have done their job. Either way, you keep more neurotransmitters in the synapse for longer, improving communication between the cells. The more we learn about brain chemistry the more sophisticated such drugs become."
Source:How it works
"The damn stuff is chemically addictive, if I don't take my pills I literally fall asleep the entire day. Sucks.
If I do not take my Luvox at night my brain races along to fast for me to get to sleep. Ever. That right there is not even a chemical side effect, that is just ADHD in all its grandure, sure I have a brain possessing an IQ of 156, but getting sleep at night sure is a nice thing and that IQ of 156 doesn't want to go to bed at night with me, rather it would keep on ratteling off about whatever comes to mind (har har)."
Take your Luvox, I'm not worried about you being on Luvox, I'm worried about people like me on Luvox just to get an edge on me. My current IQ is 164(or in the 160s), not that it matters but imagine the advantage I'd have if I were on some pill to make me concentrate 100% on something?
You see the problem isnt you being on these pills, the problem is we live in a competitive world, I must get a better grade than you and everyone else no matter what, I must have a perfect GPA no matter what, and alot of people are willing to hide behind pills and a disability just to get an edge. You arent doing this, but alot of people are and they give YOU a bad name because they make it seem like you are hiding behind your pills and taking advantage of the system.
Try doing some Research
Come to your conclusions based on the data. The data currently leads to the conclusion that these drugs do benefit average people.
Do not post a response to this unless you have done your research and you have sources backing up your claims. Learn about anatomy and the current treatments or shut up with these ridiculous unsubstantiated OPINIONS
There has been Research!
The brain adapts to use, research leads us to believe the brain is like any other muscle, use it or lose it.
So the try harder talk actually does make sense. Kinda like what you can tell a fat person. Of course some people want to believe fat people have a disease.
Washington Post Study
This basically proves with science that you can prevent your brain from developing disorders by using it.
If you can do programming because its "interesting" you can do things which arent "interesting" simply because they need to be done.
A person with REAL ADD, cannot do anything, even things they like doing.
If you can do things at the last minute, you prove that you can do work when you really want to.
"You don't know what you're talking about. Scientist have a poor understanding of how cortical circuits work. They don't even know how circuits of a few hundred neurons are structured, let alone large sections of cortex. Concentration is a complicated phenomenon and we are not even close to reaching an explanation. Until we understand how it works, any talk of the rate of "wiring" being related to concentration is pure speculation."
These same scientists claim to know what ADD is. We dont truely understand ADD, we dont truely understand the brain, I'm just telling you what scientists are currently saying, what the current theories are. It is believed that the brains wiring is setup based on use. This could mean that the brain actually gets better at things based on use, and this is part of the reason I'm against pills for most people with ADD.
Progressive myelination has already been demonstrated to be one of the mechanisms that facilitates long-term learning of complex tasks and concepts, such as language development. People with significant myelin deficits suffer from severe mental problems and are generally not functional in society if they even make it to adulthood. It is obviously not the cause of ADD. The root cause(s) of ADD are likely to be in the lower brain functions that control melatonin regulation and/or the dopamine regulation system (a specific gene with three variations that influences dopamine levels has been identified as being possibly related to ADD). There may also be structural differences in isolated areas of the prefrontal cortex, but no specific differences have been identified.
According to specific studies and research the ADD brain develops and grows in a different way than the normal brain, its this difference in how it grows that alot of people believe is the root cause of ADD.
An ADD person's frontal lobes simply developers later than the average person, sometimes it never develops at all, such as in your case.
This is why I call it a genetic trait, some men grow beards at age 14, some men are in their 20s and just growing their beard, and then we have men who never grow beards in their life.
This is a genetic feature, this is why I call the brains development deliberate. The chemical imbalance theory if it were true, would mean an ADD brain would be exactly the same as a normal brain in terms of how it looks physically, it would also mean you cannot grow out of it, if its a chemical imbalance the chance of you growing out of that is slim, of course ADD could be caused by many different reasons.
"r. People seek treatment because the symptoms of ADD bother them. Medication often helps. I don't understand why you and a lot of other people have such a huge problem with that. If medication makes someone's life better, then stop telling them that they should do something different because you are personally uncomforable with medicating mental disorders.
I'm not saying people cant use pills, I'm saying do not advocate pills. When the original poster asked me for advice, I told him advice.
You can have your pills, I just dont like the fact that people try to make pills the cure when its not a true cure, its just management.
You do know that he owns stock on oil companies right? You do know before he became president he worked for oil companies right?
Yeah and Bill Clinton did not have sexual relations with that woman.
Dude stop making up stories, the WMD were most likely destroyed, theres not a trace of it left. What river are you talking about? Americans dont care anymore? You mean Americans who are republicans dont care, everyone else does care.
I'm indepedent, I dont trust Bush, I never did, I dont trust any politician, Bush has ruined any chance that I'll trust him by being suspicious.
I know Clinton lied, and Clinton was almost Impeached for it, now its Bush's turn.
We agree on one thing, the current Admin is not doing their job. You are a republican but even you know by now that Bush is no Ronald Reagan.
What Bush is doing is pretending to be a conservative when actually hes not, he increased spending through the roof, hes just giving money away to Africa, and all these other countries, 15 billion and other huge numbers. Hes actually given tax cuts, but these tax cuts arent going to help the economy because he gives most of these cuts to big business, the same big business busy hiring your good buddies in India.
So by giving a tax cut to big business hes giving more of our jobs to India. Then he does something like this, which makes absolutely no sense, does something like this to protect one really small sector like this, it doesnt make any sense. I'm not saying its bad, I'm saying he isnt doing this for the right reasons or on a large enough scale.
Well no you are right, all the jobs should be kept here.
I'm bitching at the President because hes the leader of the free world and hes not doing shit. Hes not doing anything at all to improve this economy, he has done absolutely NOTHING thats why I bitch.
Until he produces results, I'm going to be pissed, oh and wheres Bin Laden, wheres Saddam? Wheres the weapons of mass destruction? Why arent our borders secure?
Oh and Bush is currently being investigated, for all we know the whole Iraq war could have been one big hoax.
Bush should be focusing on keeping our jobs from going to india, whats korea have to do with that?
Because until a child reaches a certain age, usually between 12-15 (but it depends on the child), they are not capable of making coherent decisions in most situations. That's why we call them "children", as distinguished from "adults".
You've made a critical error. Children are also known to have short attention spans, be more energetic, and its almost expected that most kids arent interested in doing their homework.
You werent born with pneumonia, pneumonia kills, pneumonia harms everyone else. You cannot compare this to ADD
I dont think you have the right to force a child on medication the child doesnt want. You dont understand the side effects, if there werent any side effects they'd be over the counter and everyone would be taking them.
The children are who I'm most worried about, people like you who want to force kids on pills and medicate their disorders, this is a kid, the kid didnt choose this, you did.
Why dont you ask your kid if they WANT to be on ritalin?
I'm having one of those times right now, my solution? Some coke, usually helps me just fine.
Look Mr.Grendel, you DONT have a disease, your brain is hardwired in a different way, your frontal lobes are properly developed, this is the cause of ADD. Chemical imbalances are always caused by physical reasons, most of the time they are caused due to the way the brain developed according to YOUR genetic blueprint.
You are designed in a way which is not compatible with certain aspects of society, so what? Everyone else has design problems too, no ones a perfect fit.
ADD is not chronic, its not permenant, in fact you could wake up toomorrow and it could be gone. There is no such thing as a normal brain, despite what you keep saying. Everyone benefits from these drugs, why do you think caffeine is so popular? We just dont benefit to the level you do because we dont need these drugs everyday, but we all have a use for these drugs at certain times.
When a person has trouble concentrating, its the same cause as ADD, its because of a chemical imbalance, a normal person has more developed frontal lobes, so these things dont happen as often, but they still do happen.
I've done plenty of research on this, I'm telling you that its a fact, an absolute FACT that ADD is something everyone has in various degrees.
It is also a FACT that alot of kids simply grow out of ADD as their brain develops.
Its true, its rare for adults with this condition to ever recover from it, but its still a possibility, even the adult brain rewires itself, not as efficiently as a teenage brain or a growing brain, but it does happen in rare occassions.
What I'm saying is, a simple short circuit in my brains wiring and I'll had ADD like condition while my brain is trying to figure out whats going on.
What could cause a short circuit? Anything, poor nutrition, lack of sleep, or just a bad day can cause my frontal lobes which have more advanced wiring than yours, to not work properly.
You see the brain works just like the internet, there are nodes and networks, if you cut off bloodflow to a certain node, it can screw up the whole network which needs that wire to connect to the other group of nodes.
What happens is, as you reach around age 18-25, your brain stops building new wires at the same rate, this means that yes your brain can go foggy, it also means that if your brain doesnt rebuild new wires in your frontal lobes you could actually lose your ability to concentrate until your brain builds new wires.
Its like me cutting off the electricity to a section of a network and watching all the nodes shut down, the re-arrange the network and turn the electricity on again. Usually this happens as we sleep but sometimes it happens when we are wide awake.
By the adult age the (usually by age 25) the brains wires build a protective coating on its wiring, and its this coating that keeps the so called normal people from having ADD like symptoms.
This can allow a kid to grow out of ADD by age 25. There is a chance they can regress as they age, but the speed of your regresson depends on which areas of your brain that you use. The areas you do not use are the parts of your brain which do not rebuild new wires and your brain specializes better in what its good at. This means as you grow older, your brain becomes more focused and specific at what its good at and ignores what its not.
I think the cause of ADD is genetic, I think its a deliberate feature, this is why I dont call it a disease. ADD actually has uses in a humans biological function.
Diabetes just kills, this is the difference. Asthma just kills, and both these diseases can be caused by the enviornment while ADD is genetic.
First its not proven to be permenent, I had it and grew out of it.
Second its something everyone has at certain levels, just like teenagers when they are a teen might have short tempers and grow out of that.
Third its not a disability, and thats the main gripe I have with people, trying to act like ADD is an actual disability, you may have a difficult time learning, a difficult time working, but it doesnt mean that you cant work and you cant learn.
Being blind, thats a disability.
Wearing glasses however is not a disability.
see the difference.
Alot of people need glasses but do fine never wearing them at all, some people have perfect 20/20 all their life, some people grow up and get a certain age and just go blind.
Just because ADD is difficult for you and you need pills to manage doesnt mean everyone else does too.
Diabetes unlike what people claim, is reverseable unless its a certain TYPE, and in that case you need insulin shots.
Your problem is management in most people, just not you.
I myself only have to worry about losing focus from time to time, I guess I grew out of it and you didnt. Could I benefit from some drug to help me concentrate once in a while? Hell yes, I could benefit from a drug to help me study for tests, or help make me do homework, etc.
I could also definately use a drug to help me focus on doing boring as hell math problems 1000 times each for 12 hours a day 7 days a week so that I can finally get calculus, but you know what? I dont even have that option, because people who dont have ADHD 24/7 are considered normal.
What happens if it comes test time and one of my bouts of ADD kicks in and I cant concentrate, looks like I fail the test, while you get to hide behind your pills and pass.
See what I'm saying? if we are going to say ADD is an actual disorder its not something that certain people have and certain people dont have, its something that everyone has in various amounts, some people have the problem 24/7 while most people only have the problem for short periods of time, little bouts here and there.
If we all however have programs concentrating, why not release the drug over the counter?
We all get depressed, but not all of us are manic depressed, however I can still get treatment for depression if I get depressed ever once in a while.
We all get angry, some people are always angry, but for the people who get angry for a short period of time, theres anger management and pills,
Why is ADD treated like Asthma, instead of like all the other various brain troubles people seem to all have.
Its not exclusive to you, this is what I'm saying.
When you try to label yourself as ADD or whatever, to the outsider who gets these same symptoms but who isnt on pills, they see you are hiding behind your pills, playing the victim, etc etc
Someone who occassionally gets depressed but who got over it, says the same thing about a manic depressed person whos always like that, you see.
So maybe you do need medication, so does everyone else in the country, why should you get medication while we dont?
Thats the question. Also why should you get extra time to take tests, and get special treatment in colleges while the rest of us have to deal with time limits?
You know, on an off day anyone is capable of doing bad on a test because they couldnt focus, I've done bad on a test simply because I was so stressed out with life thatI couldnt focus on the test, am I going and calling myself disabled and asking for special treatment?
anyhow you see my point of view, and I see yours. I'm not attacking you in specific, I'm attacking the people who try to pretend to be like you so they can get an edge over people like me.
Its popular now to have ADD and take ritalin, in fact college students are deliberately getting themselves diagnosed just so they can get better grades.
Not true, when I was diagnosed with it as a kid, I had never really complained about it, teachers were complaining about me.
Big difference, you are an adult who ASKED for pills because you couldnt cope. Thats the difference.
I'm not against people using meds when they actually need them, I'm against doctors who suggest meds to people who may not actually need them, to people who can manage their own ADD, or who may grow out of it.
"Other than the fact that they contain a controlled substance, they simply don't work well in people without the disease. I don't know the hard data on Adderall, but with Ritalin the results substantially differ between ADD and non-ADD patients. When given to a patient without ADD the patient experiences a very mild improvement in concentration, considered insignificant compared to the drug's risks. When a patient with ADD receives the drug, the change is substantial, far outweighing (for many) the risks."
I keep trying to tell you its not a disease. Everyone gets angry, everyone gets depressed, everyone loses focus from time to time, these pills would help everyone under certain situations.
Just like everyone from time to time has a headache, while some people have headaches all the time, asprin is sold in stores because most people have them sometimes.
The improvement you talk about is when ritalin is given to a person on a daily basis, yes the average person doesnt need it every day, but I often have days where I just cant focus, where my mind feels foggy, I cant think, ritalin would be good for those days.
I'm not saying its obvious that I'm right, but can you prove its obvious that I'm wrong? If you cant then you have no right to comment.
its not so much a missing gene, its a gene which tells the brain how to develop.
Everyones brain develops in different areas at its own set rate and some brains never develop in certain areas.
The frontal lobe area being underdeveloped is the cause for ADD.
In my series of posts, your post makes exactly the point I attempt to make.
You would be laughed at, it is a social disability.
I don't see how its a disability at all. I see it as a feature, a trait.
A competent doctor (admittedly getting harder and harder to find by the day. . .
I see it like this, we either treat this problem like its supposed to be treated, or we just make the pills over the counter. If we are going to treat it like we treat depression, therapy should be the first option, not pills. This is not the cause currently as pills seem to be the first and last option for most people.
HOW THE FUCKING HELL IS MANIC DEPRESSION A PERSONALITY TRAIT.
Please explain to me how the f*ck people trying to KILL THEMSELVES is a freakin PERSONALITY TRAIT.
In the same way that intelligence, creativity, or the ability to focus on an intense level is a personality trait. Who gives you or I the right to decide which traits and good and which are bad?
Yeesh, next you are going to tell me that OCD is just a personality trait to! (Oh it is perfectly A-OK that she cut her fingernails down to the point of SEVERELY BLEEDING, bleck!)
M
You are trying to change the subject.
An alternative view, pills can allow a person's natural traits to come out instead of being OVERRIDDEN by a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE.
There is no such thing as a "normal" person. Everyone has traits which benefit them and society and which dont. There is not a single person on planet earth with the perfect mix of traits and genes. People either have short tempers, depression, anxiety problems, ADD, Socialpath/Psychopath,Dyslexia etc. There is no such thing as a normal person. So please do not tell me that you are somehow "normal" due to a pill, you are simply hiding the real you using the pill so that you may better fit into what society expects from you.
Without the pills it doesn't much matter because I do not have any control as to what I do!
My point is, pills are not a real solution, yes pills can allow you to function in society easier, can allow you to fit in better, and hide your problem from both society and yourself, but by hiding your problem from society, society never learns to properly handle people with ADD. Teachers will never learn to teach or understand people who think different if all those who think different are on meds forcing them to think same.
Now, if you cannot function at all without meds, thats different, if a person is so depressed they will commit suicide without meds, thats different, most people however do not fit into these extremes. Most people who are depressed arent suicidal, most people who have ADD can focus for short periods of time. Theres different levels.
I personally use Dexedrine, which has the side effects of SHARPENING my concentration and SPEEDING up my mind. Soon after taking my dosage I can work damn near miraculous math problems in my head and figure out the solution to just about any other type of problem put forth to me.
Without my medicine, darned if I can focus on a task long enough to even get to my chair to get started on it!
But as for side effects, yah there are a ton of them. Medicines like many of the ones we are talking about are by NO MEANS perfectly safe. They are to be prescribed VERY CAREFULLY.
My point is this, every person on the planet suffers the symptoms of ADD at some level. Most of us however control the impulse to think or do something else. This control comes from how the brain is wired, not so much chemical balance.
You have a very severe case of ADD, you cannot control it, you actually need the meds, I'm not against you using them if you need them, the point I'm making is most people do not actually need them.
I see it like this, if these drugs actually work, we should m
By the way how old are you?
Also let me ask you a question, when you watch a movie do you lose train of thought in the middle of that movie or show? Do you forget you are watching a movie and drift off? If you cannot focus at all then maybe you do need pills.
However most people who have ADD, its not nearly as severe.
Another question, if the pills you use are so harmless and safe, yet effective, why arent these pills over the counter?
Why cant students who need to study for a test buy AdderAll? Why can only certain people use it?
You have more severe ADD than most in that you completely forget what you were doing before hand.
Maybe not everyone can manage their ADD, my point is that some people can, alot of people do.