Slashdot Mirror
Working with ADHD?
Famanoran asks: "I've recently been diagnosed ADHD ? and am now taking Ritalin. I've found that it helps me rather significantly, but I'm keen to try other things that may help. My question is to the ADHD'ers on slashdot: How have you coped with ADHD, and how have you found it affect your work performance? Do you object to having ADHD? Have you tried natural alternatives such as DPA/EPA (Omega3), 5-HTP (natural precursor to serotonin), and what were your results? Also - How do you find it working in groups of people, either as the only ADHD'er there, or in a group of ADHD'ers? Do you think that your ADHD contributes to your abilities technically, or is it a hinderance?" Previously, Ask Slashdot dealt with ADHD in children, now what suggestion do you have for the grown-ups, with the additional burden of a career, who find themselves in the same situation?
I keep reading something about ADH...whatever. Oh look! String!
Vote for global prefs bug
Being ADHD has made my very difficult and arduous in even doing the most simple of ta-- ooh! A butterfly! Whee!!!
hmmm....
I just want to clear up some of the preconceptions of this awful mental problem so that we don't get 101 trolls and joke-masters scoring mod points.
Basically, ADHD stands for Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder.. oh my god, this is so boring, let's talk about Perl!! NO! NO! NO! Let's talk about Java!! Oh that's off topic, I gotta go program, no I gotta go eat, yes eat lots of stuff!
I'm getting so sick of sitting at this computer I'm gunna go and ta
mogorific carpentry experiments
I have it - diagnosed >10 years ago. STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM RITALIN! Tell the doctor you want Wellbutrin - it works better and has far fewer side effects. As far as working with it - good luck. If you are anything like me, good luck holding a job. I get bored quickly. This is necessarily a bad thing. I have very valuable skills and have no problems finding jobs.
Do you have trouble watching TV for an hour?
Do you have touble playing a videogame for an hour?
If not then maybe you don't have ADHD.
If you do in fact have trouble with these, I have found caffeine helps me concentrate.
There's a great new (somewhat experimental) drug that's being used to treat ADHD. I've been using it for a few weeks now and
OH LOOK - BUNNIES!
Chaos, panic, disorder...my work here is done.
If you're ADHD, Slashdot is actually not all that helpful. after all, you can constantly refresh, find new comments to read, write comments, and ever hour or so there's a new story. first step if you're coping with ADHD? quit slashing.
This page has some interesting info on Ritalin and ADHD.
What kind of question is this? Do cancer patients objects to having cancer or AIDS patients object to have AIDS?
http://www.cchr.org/educate/loc2.htm
It's just a matter of learning to focus without drugs, I mean, if they'd had ADHD when I was a kid I'm sure I would have been diagnosed, but since I didn't take drugs for it I've just learned to focus by mental di
I haven't really had a problem with ADHD, even though I get distracted easily sometimes. I think coffee seems to help a lot, though that's just me. I never took ritalin, but I was on Adderall for a while (it's similar to ritalin, though not quite the same). I really disliked taking it though, because I felt really odd, lost my appetite and had frequent headaches. I honestly think that it's hyped to be a larger problem than it really is.
To this day there is no scientific proof of ADHD of which is primarily considered to be more of a behavioural disorder. This is rather sad as well that 80% of the time supposive ADHD is misdiagnosed as well when it's truely another coniditon all together and people are put on horrible medications such as Ritalin which is both addictive and extremely detrimental to your health. I would suggest checking with several other physicians if you haven't all ready and get more opinions.
Its all in your head, quit whining.
Frank: Here is the other message, encrypted and uuencoded as before. Remember to remove any spaces. Once you decrypt and understand this message, reply to this posting as outlined in the encrypted message below. I tried to post as early as possible so you could find it amongst the other -1's.
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I suggest Focusyn, but beware, side-effects include making you think Major League Baseball is watching your every move!
Ritalin is a kids drug. Adults with ADHD or whatever they're calling it should look into biofeedback. Doctors are too quick to provide the quick fix with drugs. I know a few people who went through the whole biofeedback process and are much better for it.
..that nobody could post something that could make you laugh on this topic, you're proven wrong in the first few posts.. you insensitiveHEY! THOSE WHEELS ARE WICKED!
Slashdotters? Surely you jest...
...ADHD kids does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Wanna go outside and play?
I put on my robe and wizard hat.
do you know the sound that a house party makes when you just stand there for a moment. a dull road that contantly drones on...
yeah... it's kinda like that...
it sucks...
I have found that ADHD makes me more creative than most people but that it also makes me a much poorer student, I had a half ride scholarship to one of the top comp sci schools in the country and was placed on academic probation in under a year despite having a 3.8 in my major, I found I just wasn't able to study for the classes that didn't hold my interest. The great thing is that my job really does hold my interest and so I am able to focus my manic energy towards getting stuff done, but the sepurfelous things like paperwork and stuff tend to fall by the wayside until my boss gets on me to get em done. As for coping with it I mostly have tried a balanced diet rich in dark vegtables and have tried to wein myself off of caffeine (I used to drink a 2 liter of Mt. Dew during an 8 hour shift).
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Did you notice that like at least six of us Slashdot comedians all came out with the same joke in subtly different ways? Has Slashdot really turned into the latest comedy club open mic session? I daresay it has.
Posted by Cliff on Tuesday June 17, @10:59PM
from the keeping-focus-on-the-career dept.
Famanoran asks: "I've recently been diagnosed ADHD? and am now taking Hey, look! That dog has a big puffy tail!!! Hee hee hee! Here, Puff! Come here, boy!"
Blockwars:go play!
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
It sucks, though I'm sure I'm not alone here.
Never eat more than you can lift -- Miss Piggy
Recognition is the first step on the road to recovery.
At least it would explain your Past Behavour
But I would think that the approaches are very much similar to the sequence of adaptation used for ADHD kids, minus a few tactics (thanks to maturity of age). Mainly means of focusing on a single item for a gradually increasing period of time.
A friend of mine had a brother who was ADHD and they had quite a few books relating to the ADHD topic. Unfortunately, none of them specifically targetted adults with the disorder. It's certainly due to receive some extra attention and research, IMHO.
"You tried your best and failed miserably. The lesson is...never try. Heh!" -Homer
ADHD is a often bad diagnosis. It's like saying "My kid is too kid-like." I'll explain...
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child because I could not pay attention in class. The real issue was I had/have a hearing disorder that makes it very difficult for me to zero in on specific sounds and tune others out.
This bogus diagnosis led to improper treatment. Sure, the drugs helped, but the underlying problem was not addressed, and I did not reach my full potential.
Do not trust western medicine like it's never wrong.
Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance. God, how I love it. - Gen. George Patton
I had ADHD for my whole life. It was diagnosed when I was 14 (wee bit late I'd say). I was on Ritalin for about 6 months and decided I didn't need it. I have learned to cope with it and use it to my advantage (Hyperfocusing + Coding = Happy Employeers). Learn to use it, not control it.
I did some reading and found that ADHD is linked to a lack of magnesium. So I looked in a nutrition guide to find some natural sources of magnesium (and what to avoid). I came to find out that rice and beans/grains will refresh your Mg. Vitamin D, like that of Vit.D milk, will 'wash away' some of your Mg. So, I avoid milk in the mornings, and drink a glass at night. I also tried Magnesium tablets for a while, this also seemed to help. ...possibly. But those are my findings. I also have taken 5HTP, I didnt notice much affect - that and the cost of 5HTP compared to Mg tablets makes Mg tabs more acceptable.
was it placebo?
So, I say look into your diet, it will take some time and hard-work to stay focused, but try to make your diet help you.
On the clinical side, I used to take Dexedrine, it definately helps, but that is also due to how potent it is. I didn't care for Ritalin much as a child, and dexedrine seems more 'controllable', with the side-effects being almost complete loss of appetite. So if you can work around that, you might ask your Dr. about Dexedrine.
...just remember there's no miracle drug to "fix" the issue, you have to try to stay focused, all of these aids are just that, aids, there to help you achieve a desired result.
hope that helps!
I was diagnosed with ADD. SCO is suing IBM for $3 billion in computers that were remotely destroyed by a senator. DVDs are self-destructing robots and ICANN are shipping wireless LAN technology.
Ug... what was I talking about? Oh yes, and my karma is negative from getting "offtopic" mods.
I was better when I could get Ritalin, but I can't find a doctor who will prescribe it any more. They're all afraid of lawsuits. (In Florida, anyway.)
Performance-wise, I'm sure I don't get nearly as much done on any single aspect of any one particular project, but the style I've adapted works for me: keep several projects going simultaneously and switch between them when you get bored or start to find your mind wandering.
I'm sure I'd make my employers happier if I could get the project-de-jour finished faster, but since what's important on any given day seems to be totally random anyway, in the long run, it hasn't seemed to cause any real problems. Meanwhile, I"ve learned to knit, ride a unicycle, and play the ukelele.
To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
...any site claiming to have 'information' on something when that site is specifically in place to try and scare people away from something (like, say, psychiatry).
Reliable info on psychiatric medications is unlikely to come from a group referring to itself as the Antipsychiatry Coalition. That is what is referred to as 'bias'.
What is your user ID?
I thought that after a certain age, Ritalin had the same effects as methamphetamine since that's what it is, basically. There's no damn way I would EVER feed myself pills to conform to someone else's idea of how I should act. Not Ritalin, not Prozac, none of this bullshit whose sole purpose is to make me act like a fucking robot. I'm a hyperactive little bastard. If I'm not doing something I like, then I get very agitated and don't want to do it. This is THE WAY THAT PEOPLE FUNCTION. This is not a disorder, this is simply acting the way you want to. Excuse me going off like this in what should be a fairly serious topic. There are people that actually do have disorders that prevent them from concentrating, etc, but at what point does the exception become the norm? Besides, who's worse off? Those that jump up and go running around the office shooting paperclips at each other because it seemed like fun, or those that never have done that and never will because the medications they're on supresses any urge to do anything ever.
:D
I'll get off the soapbox now.
'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
Hmm, well. As someone who's also been diagnosed with ADHD, I have found that the most effective treatment is just to get outside in the fresh air and get a bit of excersize every day. Of course, in our current culture of instant gratification and having both parents working, we have come to a point where parents aren't willing to take the time to find a better alternative than to drug their child. Personally it sickens me. I knew this one family that put their 5 y.o. child on Ritalin. I ask you, what 5y.o. isn't hyperactive? And what kind of parent drugs their 5 y.o. kid for being a bit rambuncious?
I myself only took Ritalin a few times, and I hated the way it affected me. As such, I don't take perscription drugs (not that I don't do other drugs, but that's another topic). No, for me the simplest thing to do was go outside and and run a few laps.
Okay, now for the history of ADHD. Recent studies beleive that ADHD was a genetic defect that prooved useful for attracting mates, as the higher levels of activity exhibited by the ADHD addled individual was a sign of better health and strength.
So, if the ADHD is getting in your way, then you should seek treatment. But a lot of people take Ritalin when it isn't neccesary. And watch out for dependencies. I knew a kid who no longer needed it, but he continued to take it because he claimed he could function without it. Ritalin is a mind altering drug, and people today don't give it enough respect.
Anyway, how many posts are we gonna get reffering to Focusyns from the Simpsons?
YOU SUCK BALLS!
"Driven to Distraction" by Dr. Edward Hallowell, M.D. I went to one of his lectures to learn how to help my son, who has ADHD, and learned that -- surprise! -- I have it, too. This book is a big help! Highly recommended.
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
You know all of these "jokes" about being distracted aren't funny. This is a guy asking for advice about a major problem in his life right now, and all you can say is "HEY LOOK A BUNNY." For shame! The best advice is to talk to your doctor.
Have you considered neurofeedback? Many of the "fringe" proponents make claims that smack of snake oil, but there is considerable evidence to support neurofeedback as a potential treatment for ADHD.
For example, there are some papers here.
I was "diagnosed" with ADHD too, took Ritalin all through high school. Of course it helps you work harder, it's close to speed. Check this out: http://www.adhdfraud.com/
There is no such thing as ADHD. It is a catch-all diagnosis created to explain why children don't pay attention to the bullshit they're "taught" in their daily indoctrination centers.
Rage against the machine!
I'm thirsty.
problem solved
-Foxxz
He used SPECT brain imaging to watch brain activity in his ADHD patients. He found six different types of ADHD brain activity patterns, and different behavior with them. It's a fascinating idea, actually monitoring the mental patterns and being able to see the results of various treatments.
I've found a potential solution that doesn't involve taking all these crazy medicines. When I find that I have difficulty concentrating, I just go off and furiously masturbate like a banshee. 5 minutes later I could concentrate on a Ben Stein law lecture.
I would be interested to hear from non-ADHD-afflicted people about their experiences using Ritalin to help increase concentration.
though it's got some rather questionable side-effects. I take it because most of the other medications such as Concerta (which is basically Ritalin), and Stratara simply don't work for me. I think that ADD/ADHD cases are really much more specific to the individual than most people realize. The medications are definitely something to look into though, because they can have a drastically positive effect. As for the "natural" options I've tried have had little, if any effect on me. I've found that more than anything, ADD gets in the way of accomplishing anything. So I would definitely call it a hinderance.
the difference between normal people and regular people.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
Mood disorders, such as bipolar 'disorder' and ADHD tend to dampen as people age. During my pre-teen years, I used to be the most wild person anyone knew. Come my teens, I simply outgrew it, had it almost overnight dry up. Still get hyper occasionally (something rather enjoyable, quite honestly), but it is relatively absent. This may happen at a later time for you, but expect it to happen over time.
and have tried to wein myself off of caffeine
Does that make you a weiner?
Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
My parents paid $600 CDN to be tested for admittance to an enriched high school program. The stupid guy made me click a stupid mouse for 15 minutes every time an X showed on the screen. He then diagnosed me with acute ADHD. I don't have ADHD. For my whole life I have been good at school, been able to sit still and concentrate on things for long periods of time, etc. Tried explaining to the guy that my arm fell asleep clicking the stupid mouse.
I also got nearly perfect on the Academy test itself.
That said, my parents ignored the diagnosis and I plugged right along with my straight 4.0 GPA. That's my experience with ADHD.
Oh ya, till grade 6 I did have trouble concentrating at school, but that because of the classroom being a riot of Ritalin-laced monsters. Went ot a private school for 7&8 and I got back on track for the rest of my learning career in public education.
what the fuck does this have to do with Slashdot?
Why would you come to /. looking for medical advice - that's absurd.
So here are a few questions I have about ADHD, and I mean no offense; I just want to understand.
1. Did ADHD exist 100 years ago? Did people care 100 years ago?
2. What percentage of people are diagnosed with ADHD?
3. Is there different levels of ADHD? Different advancements? Different Types?
4. Would you say ADHD is over-diagnosed? In other words, I've met a number of people considered ADHD that I would consider perfectly normal.
5. Is ADHD chemical or psychological? Both? Is there a difference?
6. Don't take this wrong, but I admit I've never met ADHD from what I would consider good parents (i.e., teach their children how to work hard and focus long); so the question, how related is ADHD to broken homes, absent parenting, stifled creativity, abuse, general over-disciplen, or the so called spoiled brat situation?
7. I have heard before ADHD is related to stress and/or a lack of exercise on the part of the mother during pregnancy. Has either of these been in a study? Confirmed?
It is very stressful and unhealthy to have ADD/ADHD and work in front of a computer. There is very little stimulation and, at least in me, reinforces the cycle that drains the energy to concentrate. Add incompetent manangement and you have something explosive. ADHD has taught me that there are more dignifying and enjoyable careers than programming, like scrubbing toilets and washing sidewalks.
yeah - i've found that i think so quickly, what seems like a lack of attention is my mind jumping from topic to topic and relating ideas that other might take a minute to catch up with to (you might have to explain your train-of-thought).
ADHD isn't a disorder, it's more of a type of personality, you might notice that computers (assuming you're a geek) or anything you enjoy can hold you attention with no problem. It's just the other stuff - stuff not of your choosing, may seem to bore you. In this boredom, you get "off-topic" and you begin to think about other topics.
I also agree, lots of sugar probably won't help your hyperactivity. Caffine tho, might. Since it acts as a mild-stimulant. Which is what Ritalin and Dexedrine are - stimulants. They "narrow" your focus, and allow you to concentrate.
I hate to break it to you, but you're both wrong.
Honestly, I'm quite a hyperactive person generally, but through a process of getting stoned every day over the last 12 years I'm now relatively 'normal'. I get stoned before work and then again in my lunch break to make sure I'm not chewing the carpet by the end of the day and it seems to work great.
Added bonus is that you stay thin (munchies are really only for the occassional stoner - the real stoner doesn't eat a lot) and the cough you develop keeps a mean six-pack. TV also tends to be a lot better this way.
Those are my suggestions and I urge you to try it.
You won't hear that from your doctor, just, "Take more pills."
Establishment medicine, espcially psychiatry, is a total fraud.
Moderators, please refrain from spending all your points modding up every easy joke about ADHD to +5, Funny. Not only are you supporting misinformed stereotypes, you're also ignoring posts that might actually have some meaning.
I'd also ask you to overlook lengthy posts that ask "Do you really have ADHD or do you just play too many videogames?" People, lets assume, if only for this discussion, that the person asking does, in fact, have a real psychological problem, and really is helped by medication, and isn't lazy, or possessed by demons, or resistant to alien mind control, or any of the other oddball opinions that always come up.
I'm not saying there's no such thing as ADHD, but remember this: ADHD is primarily a behavioural, not a physiological, diagnosis. Be careful in your dealings with doctors who's reputation and career may very well hinge on "helping" people with this problem. I'm not saying all mental health professionals are quacks, but our very sketchy knowlege of the mind allows these types of professions to harbor more than their fair share of kooks, quacks, and well-intentioned nebbishes.
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
Pharm. 2: I had a feeling that might happen. This carboxyl group sometimes causes problems. [indicates molecular model]
Homer: And we trusted you! [strangles model]
Marge: I think we should take him off the drug.
Pharm. 1: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! You can't just go off Focusyn.
Pharm. 2: But we can ease Bart onto one of its sister drugs, like chlorhexinol, and augment that with some phenolbutamine.
Pharm. 1: Hmm, and maybe some cyclobenzanone?
Pharm. 2: That's a great idea!
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
I'm going to reply to this because I don't have ADHD, rather I have a related disorder known as social anxiety, and I took interest to your mention of serotonin.
Serotonin is a chemical that is known to calm, and SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) prevents the brain from storing serotonin (thus keeping it in circulation). I'm not sure about the chemical specifics of ritalin, but I suspect it relates to many of the other newfangled medications that are on the market. I use an SSRI to calm myself, to prevent anxiety. You may use it to calm yourself to prevent overactivity.
All psychological disorders are related, though each has the same symptoms, they have each to varying degrees. My advice to you would be to seek a second opinion, even if you are absolutely certain that this second opinion will yield the same result.
ADHD is overdiagnosed in children, but an adult is a different matter. I would advise you to continue the medication that works, and look towards alternative solutions while you're taking the medication. There is no shame in taking a pill every day, and therapeutic solutions will only strengthen your resolve to conquer your problem--even if you're forced to take a pill for the rest of your life.
Do you object to having ADHD
I object to having social anxiety as much as I object to having a thorn in my side. It's an obstacle to be overcome, and even if it can't be eliminated completely, it can be managed.
How do you find it working in groups of people, either as the only ADHD'er there, or in a group of ADHD'ers?
This is somewhat irrelevant to your problem. ADHD should affect you in virtually every aspect of life, regardless whether it's with a group of people or on your own. The key is to understand how your mind works, and to become so educated with respect to your subconscious thoughts that you can control them with exercises and manage them as they come. A relatively new therapeutic study deals with cognitive thinking, in that you can catch thoughts [that cause feelings] as they occur, and eventually eliminate them. These thoughts might cause you to become hyperactive (hence the 'H' in ADHD), and you really have to focus on your internal thoughts more than the results on the environment around you.
I doubt that this advice will help you directly, but I admire your resolve in openly announcing your mental difficulties. Watching TV, I'm sure you'll notice more and more commercials regarding mental illness and the fact that it isn't extraordinary, rather it's a common problem that affects everyone, from every walk of life. My final suggestion would be to seek therapy. There's no shame in talking to someone about this, as much as there's any shame in taking medication for it. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
'Begin rant
ADHD is dumb and drugs like Ritalin are extremely bad.
(pause for troll)
I exhibited all of the symptoms of a child with adhd while growing up, and even got tested during college by a psychiatrist. The diagnosis, I had add and adhd and received a prescription for 10 MB quick and slow release Ritalin.
After taking the first few pills, I would say that is one of the worst drugs ever. I am abhored by parents giving small children even small dosages of this drug. I makes you speedy and you crash hard, increasing the need for the drug.
The tests they give you for this drug are ridiculous. Like "do you doodle during class?" and "Do you speed often while driving?". I was a freshman in college, of course I did!
I simply became more organized and was able to perform well in an Ivy league school. Of course, taking up coffee didn't hurt.
I can see in adults you may see a benefit, but giving them to children is insane. Plain and simple. I doubt anyone will argue with the dramatic effects of this drug.
'End rant
While not diagnosed with ADD or ADHD (just never talked to a doctor about it I suppose) I have found that lack of the ability to concentrate has frustrated me and in many cases embarassed me. Such as starting sentences and forgetting completely what I was talking about as I've started to think about something else. I've done this with my boss many times, and it's rather frustrating. Also I try and keep from comminicating in meetings and the like as it's hard telling if I'll communicate anything at all...
Well anyway, as for solutions, I find myself using caffine to maintain concentration and keep me on task. Sometimes just coffee, sometimes heavier stuff like espresso and americanas. The problem with the latter is that while my concentration for tasks such as programming and research is great (read:solo tasks), anything where I would have to communicate is sorta funny (read I tend to ramble a lot in that caffinated sort of way)...
I too would be really interested to hear of other's experience with natural alternatives as I'm not so sure I want to go the ritilin route yet.
ok, my head hurts, back to tasks for the less concentrated...
I was diagnosed with ADHD in like second grade or something, and the first thing I ever focused on at all (up to that point in my life anyway) was The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. Games cured me of ADHD. I don't know if it'll work for everyone, but I have no need of Ritalin or the myriads of other supposed cures.
...is cocaine.
It's (sniff) fucking GREAT!!! You can keep going for hours and hours and focus on one thing and not leave that focus and just get your shit done hey this shit is GREAT!!!
ADHA what's that?.. I've always used ritalin for that extra boost during coding crunch times..
have you tried methamphetamines?
If you have ADHD, as I do, I've found that (suprisingly) caffine helps to slow me down. Yes. Caffine. Coffee is what you want tho, not something with sugar. Sugar definitely enhances the effects of ADHD.
Another suggestion, this time about medication, is what to take... and what not to. Before you go for the generic Ritalin, try Cylert. I found it to be side effect free which is diffinitely a good thing. Whatever you take, DO NOT take Adderall!! It is bad! It is highly addictive, kills your heart like cocain, and in my opinion creates more problems that it solves.
I hope that helps.
Go here for teh [sic] funny.
A friend of mine suggested I try one of his Rittalin pills after he was diagnosed with ADD. What happened, I ended up cleaning a bathroom for 3 hours, hell you could eat off the floor when I was done. Why is this an interesting anecdote? I could barely keep dishes clean to eat, let alone clean my bathroom. Needless to say I felt it warented research. I also ended up getting a diagnosis for Adult ADD Inatentive Subtype, in other words, I can't focus and I'm not hyperactive.
Three years later I finaly got sick and tired of the way my life was going. I could barely finish classes at school, and life just SUCKED in general. I had started and stopped treatments in the past and had mixed results. I decided to start a treatment with Adderall and stick to it. That was almost a year ago. Since then I have changed my major from CS to Medical and I have gone from a 2.0 GPA to a 3.6 with straight A's for the last two semesters.
For me treatment has worked, however there is no one treatment for everyone. I recomend you do your research, learn as much as you can about ADD. Listen to what your gut instinct is telling you, it may not be right but it probably knows the best direction for you. Lastly drug treatment is not the solution! For me it was the key that unlocked my concentration and thus made me do better in school which in turn has helped improve my mood and life outlook.
Good Luck to anyone in a similar situation.
---- Fight to protect your right to keep and arm bears! ummmm... ya I think that's right....
ADHD is bunk - get more exercise and try not to
obsess about self so much
Regarding working with a mental disability, sometimes you are just as capable as a normal person, sometimes more, and sometimes waay less. I've had long periods where I have been unable to work unfortunately, but fortunately we have the Family and Medical Leave act in the US which allows for up to 12 weeks of unpaid job protected leave if necessary. Read more about it here: http://www.dol.gov/elaws/fmla.htm. Hopefully you won't have to use it, but it is a nice safety net to have if you really need it at times.
best of luck with your condition. As one with a mental disability, I know that it can be a long frustrating road out of hell and a rocky one on the way, but there is hope, and many medications that can help.
Recently I was diagnosed with A.A.A.D.D. -- Age Activated Attention Deficit Disorder. This is how this insidious disease manifests itself:
I decided to wash my car. As I start toward the garage, I notice that there is mail on the hall table. I decide to go through the mail before I wash the car. I lay my car keys down on the table, put the junk mail in the trashcan under the table, and notice that the trashcan is full. So I decide to put the bills back on the table and take out the trash first.
But then I think, since I'm going to be near the mailbox when I take out the trash anyway, I may as well pay the bills first. I take m y checkbook off the table, and see that there is only one check left. My extra checks are in my desk in the study, so I go to my desk where I find the can of pop that I had been drinking. I'm going to look for my checks, but first I need to push the pop aside so that I don't accidentally knock it over.?
I see that the pop is getting warm, and I decide I should put it in the refrigerator to keep it cold. As I head toward the kitchen with the pop, a vase of flowers on the counter catches my eye -- they need to be watered. I set the pop down on the counter, and I discover my reading glasses that I've been searching for all morning. I decide I better put them back on my desk, but first I'm going to water the flowers.
I set the glasses back down on the counter, fill a container with water and suddenly I spot the TV remote. Someone left it on the kitchen table. I realize that tonight when we go to watch TV, we will be looking for the remote, but nobody will remember that it's on the kitchen table, so I decide to put it back in the den where it belongs, but first I'll water the flowers. I splash some water on the flowers, but most of it spills on the floor.
So, I set the remote back down on the table, get some towels and wipe up the spill. Then I head down the hall trying to remember what I was planning to do. At the end of the day: the car isn't washed, the bills aren't paid, there is a warm can of pop sitting on the counter, the flowers aren't watered, there is still only one check in my checkbook, I can't find the remote, I can't find my glasses, and I don't remember what I did with the car keys.
Then when I try to figure out why nothing got done today, I'm really baffled because I know I was busy all day long, and I'm really tired. I realize this is a serious problem, and I'll try to get some help for it, but first I'll check my e- mail.
From Neal Boortz
I've had ADHD since I was 6 and been on multiple medicines over the years to try and treat the problem. One advice about medicine though, make sure you ask a lot of questions and follow up with any suggested testing that needs to be done. Some medicines may damage your liver and you need to have it tested every so often to make sure that no damage is being done. I was on one of those medications and they didn't test me ever. I was lucky and no problems occurred, but it is a good idea not to take the chance. As far as being an adult with a job, I find that I am able to focus when I need to. It takes some conscious concentration but I get through the days alright. You just need to realize you're day-dreaming an dget back to what you need to be doing. Good luck with it.
I'm 19 and when I was younger, the schools and doctors were quick to jump on anyone and everyone claiming they had ADHD and was rolling out ritalin by the barrels. I was 'diagnosed' with it and got put into hospitals for several years of my life. Ritalin never helped, and I took many other medicines that either did nothing or seemed to help at first but ended up with nasty side effects (including Lithium, which caused strong anxiety, panic attacks and hallucinations). I'm sure it's a bit different for adults, but the schools I went to use to get more money for 'special ed' kids, which included ADHD children, so you can see why the schools seemed to try to diagnose anyone who acted out as having ADHD.
IMO, in school, it's not the children who are the problem, it's the schools... It's boring, that's why they don't pay attention.
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid back in 1985 (I'm now 21).
My parents tried a little known diet known as the Feingold Diet (named for Dr Feingold). Essentially the diet excludes most artifical colours and flavours, as well as certain fruits and vegetables.
Best way to start with it is an elimination diet. Eat the "safest" foods only (ie, boring, tasteless, but natural), then gradually add more interesting foods.
As a kid I went pretty hyper when I ate something - as an adult I just get figety and can't concentrate.
This certainly isn't a solution for everyone, but it never hurts to exhaust all possibilities (especially since this way you're not drugged out of your skull on ritalin) :)
(Sorry I couldn't elaborate a bit more! I'm at work)
Q::How many Programmers with ADHD does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A::Want to go bikeriding?
A. Either (1) or (2)
(1) six (or more) of the following symptoms of INATTENTION have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:
Inattention:
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work or other activities
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)
(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools)
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities
(2) six (or more) of the following symptoms of HYPERACTIVITY-IMPULSIVITY have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:
Hyperactivity
(a) often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat
(b) often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected
(c) often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)
(d) often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly
(e) is often "on the go" or often acts if "driven by a motor"
(f) often talks excessively
Impulsivity:
(g) often blurts out answers before questions have been completed
(h) often has difficulty awaiting turn
(i) often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games)
B. Some hyperatice-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairement were present before age 7 years.
C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).
D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.
E. The symptoms do note occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder)
Someone admits on Slashdot having a medical disorder that has had difficulty finding acceptance in society and all of a sudden dozens of insensitive jokes pop up on slashdot? And they're moderated up too? Would you guys laugh if Richard Stallman had scizophrenia? What about things like alcoholism or depression? Personality disorders aren't funny. They are difficult for the people who have them and making jokes about them is rude and insensitive. I am apalled by the Slashdot community's response to this.
Who needs ritalin when we have slashdot. When I have a couple seconds between compiles (damn faster clock speeds) I am here, or at countless other websites that fill those spare cycles.
M@
Krispy Cream is people
I have ADHD.
To get some of the usual responses out of the way: Yes, kids/people get misdiagnosed all the time, but I don't care, because I wasn't. I've had to deal with this for years, and I can say that, at least for me, Ritalin has been a life-saver. I expected to not need it anymore when I became an adult, but it still gets me more focused than anything else.
I have not tried anything else, as Ritalin works fine for me, but yeah, feel free to experiment. ADHD is an incredibly inconsistant disease for me, somedays I have no difficulty at all focusing on whatever task is at hand, other times I feel like I'm my own five-year old self, with as little control over my actions as my parents had over me. So I don't think I could really give a good test run of any other substance unless I took several days off from the Ritalin, and then if it doesn't work, those are several days when I've had a much worse time concentrating at work.
As for working with others, I've never told anybody that I have ADHD and nobody has ever told me. I don't have a particularly bad time working with others, actually the usually keep me much more on track than if I'm by myself.
Lastly, do object to having ADHD? Yeah, maybe, it's an irritating and sometimes challenging disease, but by now, I really don't think I'd be who I am, for better or for worse, with out it. =)
ADHD has been seen as that "boy's disease" or "just not growing up" (but I think it's really all the posters making "wait, what was I talking about, ooh, shiny things" jokes who haven't grown up), but it's a real disease that many adults have to cope with and do cope with. Welcome to the club, Famanoran, and good luck.
[SIG] It's like putting a moose in the blender -- a recipe for disaster!
Hey look! The same joke reworded three times!
As a systems administrator, ADHD has it's perks and drawbacks. It's perks are the times when you're in a very interrupt driven role. It's easy to change focus on the drop of a hat. The drawbacks are when you're project focused. It's easy to change focus on the drop of the hat.
I took Ritalin off and on from age 7-18. I stopped taking it, because at the time I hadn't had a dosage adjustment in several years, and my doctor just kept dolling out the same "30mg twice a day" settlement, and it didn't seem to have the affect that it used to.
I've tried many things since, ephedra, caffeine, ginseng, exercise/fresh air several times per day, etc. Eventually, once I get around to choosing a health insurance plan (that's the type of research that sucks, reading through dozens of pages of information on various health insurance plans for my company figuring out what is best), I'll get back on ritalin or an alternative. From what I remember, it involved a psychiatric evaluation and some observation & discussion before choosing a dosage, followed by regular (every other month) checkups from the doctor. It was especially annoying and expensive in the state of pennsylvania, because they required a physical every time a prescription was written, so my doctor would write several months at a time, ignoring the regulation. As usual, annoying drug addicts ruin everything.
Ephedra works best. Ephedra works better than ritalin did. Unfortunately in a very, very small percentage of the population it has bad side effects.. The funny thing is, a couple of high school students went and took 5 or 6 "stackers" or "yellow jackets" (common off the shelf variety) and then went and did football practice (I used to be in football, practice was brutal) and duh, they had heart attacks... In me, it allows me to focus on less things, finish projects, meet deadlines.. The only side effect is if I don't take one "stacker" per day, and I skip a week or so, the next time I take it alters my sleep patterns and I have to use a fair amount of will power to fix them. Taking more than one per day, and I'd be likely to stay up for 3 or 4 days.
Unfortunately it's now very hard to find, so I'm looking for new alternatives. I've been taking two half hour walks per day and showering right afterwards to help clear my mind, and that seems to be helping a bit.
I'll relate one thing. Interviews suck. Having
to go over the same boring details to 4 or 5 people over and over again. The only thing worse than interviews for me are company meetings. Company meetings are the main reason I run my own consulting company, and will hopefully never work for a company I do not run again. I can't stand listening to some overpaid windbag from stanford go on and on about product scope and market analysis.
"And how can this be? For he is the
Being ADHD is kind of fun! Ritalin is good but only for some thing (caffeine make a good lit substitute)
...
As long as you are doing something you enjoy Ritalin will only slow you down! Well actually it speeds you up Which makes you slow down by making the rest of you mind go faster well you know what I mean.
Now whereâ(TM)d I put that
When I was first diagnosed with ADD (ADHD minus the hyperactive aspect) and put on Adderall, I was amazed to discover that it really was possible to follow the thread of an entire meeting and sit down for hours doing work that didn't absolutely fascinate me.
Adderall is a mix of four amphetamines used to combat Attention Deficit Disorder and Narcolepsy. It was originally prescribed to the obese as a hunger suppressant under a different name. I originally started on 3 doses per day of Adderall. That was problematic, however, because I would become more forgetful as it wore off, meaning that I needed to remember to take my next dose when I was at my most forgetful. I now take the extended-release version called Adderall XR. I only take it once a day, and it's helped enormously.
I've only been medicated for a couple of years now, so I've noticed a stark difference in my ability to function normally. Life before I was diagnosed was filled with frustration. I sometimes found it incredibly difficult to concentrate even on things that I enjoyed doing, or that I really wanted to do. My homework grades were terrible but my test scores tended to be quite good. Now, with a combination of medication and an intentional reduction of potential distractions, I can work steadily all day if I need to.
There are drawbacks, however. It completely obliterates my appetite. I find that if I don't make an effort to eat 3 square meals a day, I will forget to eat at all. Not being one who needs to lose weight, it caused some problems in the beginning. I won't feel hungry, but I'll get very cranky, headachy, and will find it difficult to focus when I don't eat.
I also find that I can be a little cranky in the late afternoon when I'm coming off the medication. ADD medications like Ritalin and Adderall are highly addictive, which really sucks. After taking Adderall for a couple of years now, I find that I have the attention span of a gnat on cocaine if I forget to take it.
Do I object to having ADD? Sometimes. But when channeled correctly, it's a really amazing source of creative material. It can also be quite entertaining to my friends. I'm just really glad I'm just really glad I have some control of it now.
Attention Deficit Disorder is hard for many people to understand. I've had people tell me to my face that ADD is a sham and that I'm just lazy. Fortunately, it's not a topic that comes up often.
Unfortunately, I don't know much about these alternative treatments, but I'm certainly interested in learning more.
While I was in elementary school, I knew someone that was on Ritalin for "hyperactivity." He was boring, didn't really seem interested in being friends with anyone, etc. Over the summer, his parents took him off of the medication (since he didn't have to concentrate on school), and we became good friends. Fortunately, he didn't go back on it (possibly because of this).
I have always had difficulty concentrating, and will frequently "zone out" even when listening to/watching/reading/etc. things that I find very interesting. My brain just likes to wander off in a different direction. I was prescribed some sort of medication in 8th grade, but it just made me sleepy, which certainly didn't help me pay attention, so I stopped. It doesn't stop me from understanding *nix [but I can't play guitar for hours on end].
Then again, you have to look at the individual situation. I have another friend who really does seem to need at least a little medication. Every time he goes off of it, his life gets derailed in some way. He eventually goes back on it, gets another job, starts doing pretty well, maybe tries college again, and then...
Basically, I recommend that you "correct" as little as possible. If it's not possible for you to function in society, you need help in some way, whether it be prescription medicine or something more natural. If you're just "eccentric", "hyper", etc., then I don't see that as bad. Maybe medication would let me sit and do something for hours, but I don't think the result would be as interesting.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
You chase solo! We Drink Ritalin!
fuck you insensitive creep
Besides, I don't know that I have a problem with bias against a field that has endorsed such treatments as:
electroconvulsive therapy
insulin coma therapy
lobotomy
etc...
I work for a company that manufactures and sells a controlled-release form of Ritalin. When the marketing was being disucssed, there were several countries where it was quite clear we were not going to market Ritalin, because a large (>80%) proportion of what the US, UK, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, rich industrial countries think of, and what doctors diagnose as, ADHD in kids, is regarded as perfectly normal behaviour in countries such as Portugal, Greece, Mexico, India, &c.
Interestingly, these are countries that still have a culture based primarily around extended families.
"When I can't stop fiddlin', I just takes me Ritalin
I'm poppin' and sailin' man!"
-- Bart Simpson, having weaned himself of Focusyn
Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
Like someone above said, make sure you get plenty of excercise. Also make sure your diet is balanced and healthy.
I would also personally recommend some type of meditation and/or yoga. It calms the mind and the nervous system.
Choose your career and jobs carefully. Some are better suited than others. I suggest you avoid office work at all costs (this goes for people without ADHD as well:) and anything that doesn't provide some manner of freedom. I don't think I have ADHD (perhaps mildly?) but my brother does. If there's something he's truly interested in, maintaining attention, focusin, etc. is nearly trivial. If it's something he doesn't care for, you may as well not even try. I'm not sure what his current pharmocological regimen is, but you'd be best served by a doc who is aware of studies on various new drugs. Also, like almost any other psychological problem, lots of people have lots of varied reactions to different drugs. What works for one person will, inexplicably, not work for you.
Not sure about the homeopathic or other 'natural' remedies you refer to. In looking at some others for various ailments of myself and wife, when studied in a traditional, peer-reviewed, closely controlled study, they frequently are shown to be ineffective, with results indistinguishable from sugar pills. Luckily, most are damaging only to your wallet, so you might feel free to experiment (I'm not a doctor, I only work with them. I don't offer medical advice that shouldn't be checked 10 ways from Sunday, and they don't touch the computers. You have been warned.)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
the messages are numbered 023 026 027 this could have all happened at the exact same tmie
I have dyslexia... Not the same I know, but maybe some of my coping skills can help you as well. :-)
I set smaller goals for myself. I break projects into smaller pieces for me it's a paragraph instead of a page, or things like that. You might try fifteen minutes instead of an hour. When I am done, I reward myself, usually by playing a game or something. I also take a long time with my spelling and go over each word four or five times to make sure that it is right- but i cannot think of a parallel for that that you might use
One thing it took me a while to learn is that you can learn to be successful in spite of your set backs. I'm learning linux and am in the midst of writing a novel
I hope that this helps, if in no other way than as a sign of support.
I'm a high school coach and I get exposed to kids on drugs for ADD. I also have had a boss or two taking drugs for this type of thing.
My experience with both groups of people is that the drugs make things worse. It's a bad cycle. There is a 3 month ajustment where you are unhappy and wierd. Then, you get 6 months of being unnaturally happy. This is followed by 3 months of the drug not working. Then, you get a new drug and ground hog day starts all over again.
It's really a crappy cycle and my philosophical problem with it is that you are going to spend (hopefully) a long time taking these drugs. How can you possibly expect that a drug will work for a period of years every day?
Every male on my father's side has been .. in fact they used to diagnose everything as dementia.. psychiatry, what a science). On my mother's side, about half of the males are diabetic and also are ADHD.
diagnosed ADHD since 1969 (before then they diagnosed it as "dementia"
"And how can this be? For he is the
You could talk to your doctor about atomoxetine. It's a new drug for adhd that isn't a stimulant. It's a norepinephrine uptake inhibitor that was recently approved for the treatment of ADHD. Good Luck.
My parents tooke me off Ritilan (sp) becuase I would just sit there and not do anything I was just too quiet and it spooked my mother..
In school I had trouble concentrating with any destractions including the teacher so nautrally I had lower grades though I fought like hell in high school to stay on the honor roll.
but the flipside is when something interests me I can shut everything out and pay attention it. I was great in band until I got bored and quit and I picked up my first programing language php within a relative amount of time and when I need to do something (I commonly debug others code) I can do it very effectively if not disturbed.
ADHD is basically a two edged sword and the treatments are the same you just have to take the good with the bad.
Sorry couldn't resist! http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/ritalin.html
I'm 20 now, and haven't been on ritalin for about 4 years... at first, i REALLY hated the fact that my parents were (more or less) forcing me to take them - all i knew about it when i was 8 was that it changed the way i thought, etc... bad enough as it was as i got older, say, through junior high, i was still on the drug, and went in search of ways to channel that energy - i ended up intimitely knowing the anarchist's cookbook - some trouble with the law over that older still, in high school, i started to realise it's potential and started to do better in school, and found it was actually doing what it was meant to do... stop the hyperactivity, and gave me focus about half way through my final year in high school, my parents finally took me off the drug (just before i'd be able to say no legally anyways) and i noticed that i really didn't need it nearly as much anymore - i'd actually grown into the focus i got accustomed to; thinking before i did things actually happened then i just live my life as any other geek does now... geek job, geek life, geek girlfriend
www.necroticobsession.com
... like Centrum with some zinc in it. As a child in grade school I had "short attention span" back before anyone ever called it ADHD or ADD or whatever. It was just "fidgity kid syndrome". My mother saw a doctor on the Johnny Carson show discussing this and he said "zinc deficiency" so she started making me take vitamins (Flintstones, back when they first came on the market) and after a couple weeks it worked. End of "fidgity kid syndrome". This was back in early 1970's.
Ritalin is a chemical cousin to meth, and it will make you crave speed later on in life which is poison to your CNS and will wreck your health. Stay the hell away from it.
There is new research out dealing with ADHD and sleep:
Sleep deprivation and ADHD
Sleep deprivation effects
Sleep deprivation may be undermining teens health
Other sites from Google
What, me worry?
That website is a total quack. For one thing, ADHD is a Psychiatric diagnosis. Dr. Baughman is a Neurologist. That is sort of like an Internal Medicine doctor performing surgery.
I'm a regular MDMA user, aswell as dexampphetamines which are used to treat ADHD, and i take large dose's of 5-HTP to deal with the sudden drop in serotonin after using MDMA. I find that when i use 5-HTP in conjunction with dexamphetamines however, that the whole experience is a lot smoother, with fewer side effects (such as lack of appetite, insomnia etc) and little or no comedown.
just my 0.2c
First of all, get off ritalin. It can cause permanent neurological problems, and is very bad for your health. Also, as far as I know, ADHD (and all the others) are usually nutrition disorders, and can be easily cured by changing the person's diet, and getting proper levels of sleep, etc.
So GET OFF THE RITALIN - I mean it
see this site (i quickly found a random one)
#Secret Windows Source Code, in MS C% - if (uptime >= "24 hours") then bsod() else print "Windows License Violation!"
Weed
(seriously, works for me)
I have it, I'm on the ritalin, don't waste your money on the omega-3, doesn't work. At least for me that's true.
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
Don't crush up and sniff that Ritalin. It has similar effects as cocaine, and is almost as addictive. My mom sure wondered why I went through a bottle a week! The "lost my perscription bottle" excuse only works so many times ;)
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
'interesting info', he says.
The site is run by Scientologists.
How 'informative' do you think that post is now?
If you have been diagnosed with ADHD you may want to look into a condition called Dissociate Identity Disorder (DID). Many people who suffer from this condition are misdiagnosed as ADHD. A good book on the topic is "Stranger in the Mirror" by Marlene Steinberg.
This was the problem I had, the whole "in my major" thing. I was acing the tech stuff (CompSci, Chem, Math) but couldn't keep my eyes open for anything remotely liberal-arts-ish. My advice is realize you HAVE TO PASS THIS STUFF to keep your ride and get your sheep-skin, so just hunker down and do it. Easy to say.
I've found that latley I've starte to appriciate the crap they wanted to jam down my throat. I never read a single word of Mark Twain when I was 18yr old, but now I have his complete works on my Palm and read it whenever I have a spare moment, and really really enjoy it! _Conneticut Yankee in King Arthurs Court_ is just amazing. I was %100 sci-fi pre work-force, but now I really love the classic-lit stuff. Maybe we need to try to recognize this in our students and nurture it more appropriatly.
Oh! A butterfly!
M@
Krispy Cream is people
While it seems to work well for those who are truly strong ADHD sufferers, nowadays doctors have a strong tendency towards quickly diagnosing people/children and prescribing various medications. Ritalin is a favorite, and not always the best choice.
In my younger days, I had a slight tendency towards distraction. I wasn't bouncing off the walls, nor did it actually distract me from work, but I was prescribed ritalin. Rather than improving my condition, ritalin sapped my energy and left my a basketcase through about half a year of classes.
Eventually I quit the pill, but remember as a warning that anything that messes with your body chemistry should not be taken lightly, and measure side-effects against intended effects...
I walk a mile every day before and after work and go through a kind of a reset, letting myself get distracted again at the end of the day, or setting some goals and planning out the routine for the day in the morning. It also helps take the edge off the kind of itchy bouncing energy that can send you climbing the walls.
Once at work, for me, avoiding all distractions and trying to work with a routine pattern works best, no medication needed. Ween yourself off of caffeine, sugars, and anything else that sends you up or slows you down and get in tune with yourself and you can learn to spot the distractions when they happen, long before you realize you've burned an afternoon on something other than the tasks you'd planned for yourself.
For an honest "ask slashdot" question from someone with ADHD, can the mods please not mod up post such as this as "funny", because they're not and they interfere with the purpose of the question. Making fun of the subject in this manner is a tired joke anyway.
Try also to not let this turn into a debate as to the acceptedness of ADHD as a diagnosis. For many of us, this is a subject that is close to heart and quite frankly, many are tired of the obvious jokes and unacceptance. ADHD is real, it's here, so please, even if you don't have it, please respect it for what it is.
As for me, I did encounter a bit of uncertianty when I informed my boss about my own ADHD. Many do not know anything about it so understanding is a constant struggle.
As for meds, I have found Aderall XR to be quite effective, but like many ADD drugs, its amphetamine status makes it a pain because of the triplicate forms and many doctors can be apprehensive about prescribing it.
There is a new drug released this year who's name escapes me, but it's a non-amphetamine drug that is much easier to deal with. Problems I have read, however, are some rare cases of folks finding they get odd violent tendencies or it can only make their ADHD symptoms worse. Just goes to show how much we truly understand this disease.
For herbal remedies, I have yet to see a well controlled series of scientific studies of any treatment that makes as significant a difference as the more generally accepted medications.
It's a fact of ADHD, If you have it, you take mphetamines, aka speed. Many respond quite well to it, so once you get over the fact that you're taking a "controlled substance", you can move on with your life and actually thrive quite well.
When I was in high school my folks decided my poor grades might be a result of ADD rather than just laziness and disinterest in the subject matter. I went to see some quack who gave had me do a test (like the Simon game) hit the blinking buttons in sequence. I did that test well enough I guess, I didn't smoke pot than so my short term memory was a bit better (although I bet if I were to do it high I would have aced it). Then he had me solve math problems in my head. I don't think I have a problem with math, if you want to check my long division go for it, but I can't tell you what 533/7 is off the top of my head.. I'm sure the exercise was intended to see how well I could step through the problem in my head.. but I said fuck it and told him, "Umm.. no clue". If anything I think he should have came to the conclusion I was seriously unmotivated, not hyperactive, but nope, I'm ADHD. I also had to answer some questions on paper that I found to be most uninteresting so.. I did like half of them, I could have finished the rest, but I chose not to, it's not that something else seemed more interesting, I just thought the whole thing was a giant waste of time. At work, I find I'm never motivated to do anything, I never get up at a reasonable time, I'm constantly late (yeah before I started smoking herb too). If that's ADHD I guess I have it, but once upon a time I think they just called it lazy. My point I guess is that testing for ADD and ADHD is really left to a matter of opinion, the "science" behind it is flawed and highly susceptible to false positives. If the Dr. tells you you have ADD/ADHD though, it might mean more money down the road, so sure why not. After all these guys aren't real Doctors, not even psychiatrist material, more like a chiropractor (ever now and then they get it right, but it'll cost you money regardless). If you have a job, and you've just recently been diagnosed with ADHD, what's the problem? You can obviously function, if drugs improve your quality of life than take em I guess, me I'll just stick with recreational drugs off office hours.
i may not have adhd,but i have aspergers syndrom(in the autism spectrum) and ritalin does help with paying attention but what i have noticed is that if i do something that would normaly make someone hyper actualy helps me stay more focused
Is there an opposite of the disorder? I absorb massive quantities of caffeine without getting hyper, and I can code for days on a single project with just the occasional break for more caffeine or food.
On another note: I am the only person I know who has not been diagnosed with having ADD or ADHD. What percentage of those tested come up positive?
"Major League Baseball is using satellites to read your pocket organizer for more ad revenue! Only a tin foil hat will save you!", Bart Simpson on Focusin
"If I don't get me ridelin, I'll just keep on fiddlin'. I'm poppin' and sailin' man! Toot Toot!", Bart Simpson
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
What works for me is THC. It's in some ways a stimulant and in others a relaxant, as well as elevating mood which gives motivation (and for the first 60 minutes helps creativity too, although also disrupts logic ie. not good for coding then.) Everything else I tried either makes me sleepy (prozac) or anxious (ritalin) or takes away all feelings leaving me capable, but an automaton: bored, unmotivated, eventually depressed. Of course, if you live in the USA you don't have this freedom.
I like to read the following from the Jargon File:f -the-Ha cker-Personality.html
http://www.ack.ca/jargon/html/Weaknesses-o
(some stuff removed)
1994-95's fad behavioral disease was a syndrome called Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD), supposedly characterized by (among other things) a combination of short attention span with an ability to `hyperfocus' imaginatively on interesting tasks. In 1998-1999 another syndrome that is said to overlap with many hacker traits entered popular awareness: Asperger's syndrome (AS). This disorder is also sometimes called `high-function autism', though researchers are divided on whether AS is in fact a mild form of autism or a distinct syndrome with a different etiology. AS patients exhibit mild to severe deficits in interpreting facial and body-language cues and in modeling or empathizing with others' emotions. Though some AS patients exhibit mild retardation, others compensate for their deficits with high intelligence and analytical ability, and frequently seek out technical fields where problem-solving abilities are at a premium and people skills are relatively unimportant. Both syndromes are thought to relate to abnormalities in neurotransmitter chemistry, especially the brain's processing of serotonin.
Many hackers have noticed that mainstream culture has shown a tendency to pathologize and medicalize normal variations in personality, especially those variations that make life more complicated for authority figures and conformists. Thus, hackers aware of the issue tend to be among those questioning whether ADD and AS actually exist; and if so whether they are really `diseases' rather than extremes of a normal genetic variation like having freckles or being able to taste DPT. In either case, they have a sneaking tendency to wonder if these syndromes are over-diagnosed and over-treated. After all, people in authority will always be inconvenienced by schoolchildren or workers or citizens who are prickly, intelligent individualists - thus, any social system that depends on authority relationships will tend to helpfully ostracize and therapize and drug such `abnormal' people until they are properly docile and stupid and `well-socialized'.
So hackers tend to believe they have good reason for skepticism about clinical explanations of the hacker personality. That being said, most would also concede that some hacker traits coincide with indicators for ADD and AS. It is probably true that boosters of both would find a rather higher rate of clinical ADD among hackers than the supposedly mainstream-normal 10% (AS is rarer and there are not yet good estimates of incidence as of 2000).
especially in children. I feel that ADHD was really invented as a means for drug companies to make money and school districts and parents to give excuses for their children, and drug them up to keep kids from actually being kids.
Seriously, look at the "symptoms". Fidgity, lacks attention to school subjects, easily distracted while at school, hyper. Ok, now if you can't easily explain away ALL of those symptoms with the fact that most school really is uninteresting to most students under the age of 18, and the fact that American's have a general diet which contains 2-5 times more sugar then most other parts of the world, then I don't know what you are smoking, but it sure isn't a legal substance in the USA.
Face it, this is the cop-out way of dealing with a child growing up, put him/her on drugs to dull their minds and calm them down, this way we don't have to deal with the fact that the parents/caretakers/teachers don't have the time or means necessary to actually deal with an active child. I see no reason to ever medicate a child for behavior that is and always has been the norm for children. When was the last time you believed that an eight year old will not get bored in a math class and get distracted by something that is happening outside the window? Do you seriously believe that most kids want to sit at a desk for 8 hours a day? Hell no. They want to go outside and run around. They want to play with other kids, not listen to the adult. They want to do things that interest them, which usually does not include sitting through history, or algebra, or science classes in which the majority of the time is spent listening to lectures and theory, or droning over "busy work" meant to waste their time doing a chore which is truely non-productive past the first 3 iterations as the benefits of repetitive learning quickly reach a saturation point. ADHD in children is absolutly a farse.
In adults on the other hand, you might be able to make a case that it exists, but even then I still feel it hard to prove. Maybe, just maybe the person's job/life really isn't satisfying to the person. I can see many jobs that I would absolutly hate, in which just about anything else happening around me would cause me to want to pay attention to those events instead of my job, since my job is completely repetitive and boring to me. The real solution in many of these cases could easily be find a new line of work, something that you are actually interested in, but doing this is usually not possible for economic or other reasons (i.e. you can't be a doctor without a PhD, or a pilot without knowing how to fly, or heaven forbid, a lawyer without a law degree and/or passing the bar).
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
I have ADHD and Asperger's. I'm not as distractable as some of the earlier posters who seem to have nothing better to do with their lives than make fun of other people. I tend to get distracted with hunting down packages to satisfy dependencies or trying to get a tricky program to compile and run. If you get distracted by string or other simple do-dads, more power to ya!
I have a list for adults with ADHD on Yahoogroups, it's called AADD. [Note to would-be-trolls: newcomers are modded.] Any reasonable adult with ADHD, suspected ADHD, or a spouse/so with ADHD is welcome to join and waste lots of time.
People cope with ADHD traits in a variety of ways, some of my listmembers use medication, some diet, some exercise, some haven't found anything that works. Many of us have self-esteem issues/depression due to growing up with other people calling us lazy and underachieving. All of us struggle with work issues, no matter what our jobs are. Staying on task can be difficult and many of us have a certain amount of social blindness and the oftimes embarassing trait of blurting out the first thing that comes to mind.
I'll second the referral to Dr. Amen's site at www.brainplace.com. He has SPECT scans of different classes of brains at work and it's very fascinating. There are also lots of good books out there by people like Hallowell, Barkley, Solden and others.
The public has this illusion that some parent brings their misbehaving child to the doctor, gets a diagnosis of ADHD and gets prescribed a stimulant. This is utter nonsense. If you look at my other thread, one of the main criteria for ADHD is "There must be clear evidence of clinically signficant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning". That is the key. For example, this describes a kid is failing classes in danger or so "hyperactive" that they are going to be kicked out of class for behavior problems.
ADHD has become an increasingly popular diagnosis, especially since it's very difficult to prove incorrect. ADHD is a relatively rare disorder, and has grown in the field to encompass both hyperativity disorder and ADD.
I was nearly diagnosed with ADD/ADHD when I was in 8th grade. The people didn't quite realize that I was bored. I could've taught my 8th grade English class, but I'm sure that if I were taken to a psychologist that I would be diagnosed with ADHD. I was near puberty. I was mad at the world. I didn't fit in because I had a rather poor self image.
Maybe you do have ADHD. I still find that I have trouble sitting still for more than an hour. I know that this isn't on the scale of ADHD, where they can't focus for more than 3 or 4 minutes. I do have thousands of things running through my mind, but I don't let myself get too distracted.
As the guy on everything2 hypothesized, I believe that people are evolving. The ones who have genius intelligence, but can't quite handle it are the ones who end up with ADHD. The ones that can handle it end up being true genius (like Einstein style.)
I have an easy time getting bored. I have an easy time getting energetic and jumping around like a hooligan. I might have good brain power, but I can only half-way handle it. Maybe God got distracted with something while writing "ADHD" into my head, therefore only giving me a semi-dose.
Anyway, the way I handle my self-induced stress is by working out. I lift weights and do cadio. I find that if my body is tired, I have an easier time getting to sleep. I have an easier time sitting still and writing my programs.
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
turrettes syndrome, another friend calls me turbo. it's funny sometimes, but seriously, i've been combatting impulsive and compulsive behavior all my life. actually having adhd and being a sysadmin has kinda gone hand in hand, like being able to switch from task to task quickly or compulsive behavior in record keeping(serial numbers, warranties, etc). it's been terrible in my personal life, i've gone thru 4 major relationship in the last 20 years, and they all seem to have crumbled because of my fanatical behavior...
i started taking ritilin(60 mg) and paxil(30 mg) about a year, and it really started to help me keep an even keel on my spastic behavior(witnessed by others, never by myself). i was initially afraid that it might dull my edge, you know, take away that "jai nais se qua" that was a part of who i am... it did dull my edge, but just enough so that i wasn't cutting myself all the time(i.e. taking on too many projects). i'm able to concentrate more on internal documentation and white papers, recommendation/justification documents and other management task which, if i hadn't been able to accomplish, would have kept me in the perpetual "corporate pc piss-boy" role.
previously, the only other alternative medication was the alcohol variety, the organic combustible type only makes my paranoia kick into hyperdrive...
three can keep a secret, if two are dead - benjamin franklin
I've been taking Adderall for 5 years now. I fought long and hard against the idea that I have ADD, because I really don't see myself as hyper, unfocused, etc... It was only after I learned that ADD is really different than ADHD. My problem isn't lack of focus, it's too much focus. When I'm doing a single task, like programming, I actually think this "problem" is a benefit. But if say the phone rings, I have a hard time getting back into the groove.
I like to compare my situtation to nerdy things like job scheduling. Adderall gives me the ability to context switch faster, even though the individual timeslices are smaller, I get more done and don't "deadlock".
I think the most important thing is to remember that AD(H)D medication is a serious drug, and you should be very cautious with it. Several doctors I've had have made recommendations to ever up my dosage (I take 15 mg, which is non-standard, since it is old in increments of 10) simply because it was simplier. I've even had a doctor ell me it was ok take an "extra" if I felt I "needed" it! (Dropped that guy like a hot rock). I don't take it on weekends. I don't drink coffee. I periodically take a drug "holiday" to see what happens without the chemical help. I'd recommend you do the same.
All that being said, I really think the drug has helped me.
I am ADD... my son is ADHD... he started on Strattera last month.. I just started it today. Now, while I do tech support, and ADD does somewhat help, I decided to try Strattera. It is, IMHO, a LOT better than Ritalin. Ritalin is a controled substance... 2 or 3 steps away from street speed. It's an amphetamine. Doctors can not give out free samples, nor can they call in perscriptions. Strattera is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. It is really brand new.. FDA approved for ADD/ADHD in February. From what I've seen (both in myself today, and my son), it works quite well. And unlike Amphetamines, it gets better over time... the Amphetamines tend to have highs and lows... you'll be fine for a few hours, then not, then be fine again... over time, with strattera, you'll get progressively less ADH.
No, I dont work for the company.. but their URL is: www.strattera.com
OMG... I have a sig?
My psychiatrist (who will remain unnamed) diagnosed me with ADD/RBS (racing brain syndrome). Plunked into the realm of ADD/ADHD, described to me as an over-amplification of thoughts about a single subject that leads to the inability to think laterally and 'obsess' about that topic to the exclusion of all else. After reacting poorly to Dexdrine, Ritalin, and Cylert, my psychiatrist suggested I try marijuana to aid me in stabilizng my thoughts. Just the right amount can make me lucid and very functional, like right now. Unfortunately the government thinks of marijuana as a horrible, evil, addictive drug. How wrong they are...
I posted part of this as a response to one of the numberous jokes that had been inappropriately modded up. Try also to not let this turn into a debate as to the acceptedness of ADHD as a diagnosis. For many of us, this is a subject that is close to heart and quite frankly, many are tired of the obvious jokes and unacceptance. ADHD is real, it's here, so please, even if you don't have it, please respect it for what it is.
As for me, I did encounter a bit of uncertianty when I informed my boss about my own ADHD. Many do not know anything about it so understanding is a constant struggle.
As for meds, I have found Aderall XR to be quite effective, but like many ADD drugs, its amphetamine status makes it a pain because of the triplicate forms and many doctors can be apprehensive about prescribing it.
There is a new drug released this year who's name escapes me, but it's a non-amphetamine drug that is much easier to deal with. Problems I have read, however, are some rare cases of folks finding they get odd violent tendencies or it can only make their ADHD symptoms worse. Just goes to show how much we truly understand this disease.
For herbal remedies, I have yet to see a well controlled series of scientific studies of any treatment that makes as significant a difference as the more generally accepted medications.
It's a fact of ADHD, If you have it, you take mphetamines, aka speed. Many respond quite well to it, so once you get over the fact that you're taking a "controlled substance", you can move on with your life and actually thrive quite well.
of course you are going to feel better on ritalin. People generally feel better and get more done (for a while) after taking speed, which is what methylphenidate (ritalin) is. Then you move to adderol. Or crystal meth. Fun.
... think parkinsons in later life. Not fun.
5-HTP is the precursor to tryptophan which is the precursor to serotonin. ADHD is a dopamine-based complex, at least in theory. Thus, a change in serotonin might make you more docile, satisfied, relaxed or sleep better as well as increasing your body's ability to self-regulate -- however this will likely not have a major effect on the ADHD itself. Thats fundamentally like taking an aspirin to heal a wound. P.S. the aspirin doens't make the wound heal faster, it just makes you stop itching it.
If you have been an excessive coffee drinking / stimulant abuser / etc. you may have developed an ADHD like complex where your body is so used to its dopamine levels being controlled externally that it no longer properly regulates. This is a Very Bad Thing(tm)
Try eating less refined sugar and caffeine and waiting 6-10 months. Go to bed earlier and keep a schedule. Of course, regular exercise is very important provided it is in moderation. Eating lots of carbs is probably not going to help either.
I'm not a doctor, i'm too stupid. But sometimes common sense is smrt.
Gregory
--- ask me about nihilism, I will have nothing to tell you.
and the vibrance of living. It did help me focus more and be more "productive" but I wasn't terribly impressed with what I produced. A little background: I was diagnosed with ADHD "off the map" by a psychatrist at the age of 28. I have a very keen awareness of how I see/experience the world and although it is not terribly well recieved in the industrial higherarchy it beats the hell out of staring straight ahead in a daze. Over the years I have developed a lot of coping mechanisims to make it so that my way of being didn't collide with the way I should be as much as possible. Still there are times where conformity is required and conforming without medication for me is very hard. So I will spot use ritalin to get through trouble spots. I will also happen to find it a nice mixer with a couple of beers and _\|/_ ;) it's a nice trifecta cocktail. Seriously, I found using behavioral modifaction like a well organized palm pilot and a strong social support network to be an effective and preferable treatment plan for ADHD than being medicated all the time.
More than one in eight cases of ADD is misdiagnosed. Treatment with amphetamines can be very positive. I've tried Ritilin and Dexamphetamine. Of the two I find that Dexamphetamine is much more helpfull. Dexamphetamine has a longer checmical half life, and tends to last better. I take lower doses, and it lasts me through the day without a mid afternoon crash, like I used to get with Ritilin. Though it does seem that Ritilin is the treatment of choice, amongst doctors in the US. I think this is mainly a marketing push. There are many other methods of coping with my condition. I find that a combinatin of stratagys works well. Some of the things I try, which work well for me are: Diet: When I eat right, I notice a big increaces in my ability to concentrate. Foods with preservitives are not so good for me. Some people I've met are much worse, though. Thank heaven for small mercies. Exercise: More than half an hours exercise every day makes me much saner. Otherwise I tend to get a bit stir crazy. I find the more exercise I do, the better I feel, for a whole bunch of reasons. Its probibly going to be that way for the rest of my life. Anger Managment: I used to get realy angry when things didnt work out my way. Now I've taken a cognitive behavioral aproach to watching what I think, and how I act. Lot of work, but very rewarding. With ADD it is easy to overract to stimulus. Sometimes when someone is talkng to me, I feel like they are shouting. Sometimes when they are annoyed, it can feel like they are enraged. I notice the signs in myself, and learn when to take a step back. Not easy, but very efective. What no one told me, I had to go and read in a study for mysef, is the long term efect of amphetimines. While they can be extreemly helpfull, after many years of use, they can gradualy burn out the dopamine recepters in the brain. Some kids I hear of are on huge doese of Ritilin or whatever. Its a lot more work to learn stratagys to cope withoug drugs. It certanly can be overwhelming at times, I am well aware. In my experience, starting with a medium dose, and eventualy working down to a very low dose or no dose, is what worked for me. Now I only take a pill when I realy need it. Test coming up, deadline to meet, job interview. Where stress is high, and I want to perform my best.
In the maelstrom of the chaos at the center of my mind, I taste the salt of sadness as I feel my soul unwind.
"There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning"
Translation:
1. The patient is in danger of failing school because of inability to concentrate or get work done
2. Danger of being expelled from school for "hyperactive behaviors"
3. Adults - Unable to hold a job
I think a lot of so called diseases or disorders have a psychological basis to them. The Placebo Effect seems to corroborate this.
In my experience, if you don't know you have a disease, you tend to worry less about it (mind you, I'm not saying this may be the best thing). What I'm saying is, in a developed society like the US, where access to good medical facilities is easy and widespread, people tend to, in some cases (over)use it (and again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing).
In lesser developed countries, you would never hear of a person suffering from a common allergy. They generally tend to treat it as a common cold. I have seen many adult non-americans being diagnosed with various kinds of allergies after they arrived in the US after spending a significant portion of their adult life in another country.
Similarly, a larger number of American children are diagnosed (and treated) for learning disabilities and other disorders than those in other countries. It may be a better idea to see if the "patient" can learn to get around it, or even outgrow it if he is unaware of the problem rather than prescribing drugs.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
You can write your own code. You can't write your own prescriptions.
...has one interesting side effect: It heavily increases the amount of dexamphetamines entering the market, and makes it a lot easier for non-ADHD people to get them for cheap from friends who are prescribed drugs and don't need them...
Play sports, have sex, we weren't meant to be sitting at a desk 8 hrs a day. ADHD is BS.
I have ADHD so I lose interest in boring stuff soon....
For example, I was gonna write a list of 10 things everyone with ADHD should do but now it seems to be too boring to type. I am just gonna watch some midnight HBO/Cinemax
The most important thing that I had to learn was that the drugs won't make you want to do things you don't want to do. You can divide tasks you currently fail at into three categories:
1) You can't focus and stick to it.
2) You don't really want to.
3) You aren't capable.
Before, I couldn't really tell the difference between the three. Part of that problem was that I was afraid to start things because I knew I couldn't follow through. It was all a muddle. And when things got tough, I'd give up. I couldn't tell whether that was because it really was too hard or because there was a threshhold of dedication that I just couldn't get over. Now, using the drugs, I have a lot more clarity. I know that if I'm capable of doing something and if I want to do it, it'll get done. That's a huge change for me. I also have a clearer understanding of what I really can do, so I know when something is just beyond my ability. The drugs have their side effects, but the clarity they have made possible is an unequivocally good thing. It also sticks with me when I'm not using them, which gives me some hope for a productive and drug-free future.
You have a choice: tax and spend Democrats, or borrow and spend Republicans. Choose wisely.
but I'm keen to try other things that may help.
Have you ever used Marijuana? You might find that it reduces the HD part of ADHD.
I'm kinda anti-drug, having seen what they've done to a couple of my friends, so I refused them when offered.
I get by on sheer motivation/will, but it's definately more difficult for me than anyone else I know to do things like making a cup of tea or remembering to pay bills (always a day late)
Let's see, I did try 5HTP (made me sleepy), pine bark extract (made me tired), ephedrine (sleepy), velarian root (sleepy), caffeine (sleepy), ritalin (sleepy), paxil (fatigue)... anyone see a pattern?
I'm trying neurofeedback in the coming months, I have hope. Although there haven't been large scale studies, the prelim results look good, besides, it's not like anyone's done a long-term study on the use of ritalin/any other drug in the long-term (longer than 6 months)
oh cool, sars info.
-i
The key for me is trying to stay organized. I tend to get ovewhelmed and lost in paperwork/deadlines/stuff I don't want to do.
;-)
I found a nice system that works for me, and luckily, I have a great boss who recognises my problems, and helps to facilitate them. ( It probably makes a difference that his son has been diagnosed with ADHD, and therefore, he knows about it. )
I have a system that helps me to make sure I don't get too distracted. At the beginning of each week, me and my boss go over my weekly/long-term projects, and decide which ones are gunna be done that week. I then enter them into iCal on my laptop, print out a list of everything for the week, and decide which project I will work on each week. I then go further, by using my two cork-boards in my office. I put all tasks that need to be finished that day on one corckboard, in order of priority (Board A), and then put the long-term projects that are to be finished that week on the second board (in order of importance) (Board B).
As the day goes, I work through each task on Board A, and when I get bored/finished with those tasks, I work on the tasks from Board B. The key to making this system work, is that EVERY task, no matter how menial, goes onto board A if it must be done today.
Another thing that helps me alot is the fact that I'm a smoker, it gives me a chance to get out of the office. Although, it doesn't much help to go out with the other smokers, so I go out alone and take a walk during my smoke breaks.
Also, We have a weekly meeting where we go over my progress/projects, where my boss rattles off areas i need to work on, as well as areas I have improved in. Which is probably the most helpful, as I find myself needing alot of reminding
Hope this helps, it sure has helped me. Of course, havinga boss that's willing to work with you, helps alot too.
-- p06 "On religious wars: They're essentially wars over whoo's imaginary friend is better"
I was diagnosed with ADD (similar to ADHD) when I was 17 (now 32.) I tried Ritalin for a long while, but it always made me depressed. My psychologist put me on Wellbutrin, which is an antidepressant and that worked a lot better for me. However, I just don't take anything right now. I really got sick and tired of taking pills and learned some coping mechanisms for the ADD.
I have just been diagnosed with it too, and my doc didn't like the normal "SPEED" like drugs and put me on a new one called Starttera. It's really working, and I don't have all those goofy side effects.
David Vasta iSeries(AS/400) Admin & Junkie
I was diagnosed with ADD (no H) 1st semester freshman year in college. Aside from the typical behavioral 'deficiencies' that come with being undiagnosed for so long, I found it nearly impossible to read. I was prescribed Ritalin, and over the years (6 now) I have tried Wellbutrin, Adderall, and Dexedrine as well. As posted here by others body chemistry plays a large role in the efficacy and side effects, which is like saying the ocean has a lot do to with how big the waves are. I have found Ritalin to be the best of those tried, and am still on it. Wellbutrin did nothing. There's another one called Strattera, but my brother (ADHD) tried it and said it was ineffective, though I have been told by my doc that determining correct dosage varies widely (not just dependent on bodyweight).
At any rate, usually you have to try them for a few months to see if they really work, not only for the obvious chemical oomph, but more importantly for the overall effects. When I was in college I spoke more clearly and lucidly while off it, but I could think much more 'widely' while on it. If you're sitting on your ass all day programming, that's fine, but if you have to give a speech or presentation at a sales meeting, it's a different story.
As far as the legitimacy of ADD: There are plenty of forums and so on where you can battle this one out. I look at it this way: We don't really know what 'ADD' is yet. No one has definitively pinned it down as a specific genome (which doesn't necessarily prove it either, though it's the modern benchmark), though you can look at a number of studies that monitored chemical levels and electromagnetic patterns in the pre-frontal lobes. I would say most of the obvious behavior -- not being able to do something for more than 10 min before losing interest -- is more a cultural phenomenon than a genetic one. TV, the Internet, and couch time all contribute to multiphrenia and the expectation that we _should_ be able to concentrate on everything all the time. In a society hellbent on efficiency and performance, curiosity is too easily diagnosed as slacking. But if you look outside this narrow spectrum, it is obvious that it could be a distinct cognitive trait and in certain circumstances it has probably proven immensely useful. I find it very easy to 'free associate', though viewed under a different lense one could call it 'day dreaming'. And so on. I spent most of college trying to reestablish my study habits, which are now called work habits, and to a large extent was successful. I certainly don't _need_ Ritalin the way ppl with high cholesterol need Lipitor, but it certainly makes it easy to crank out code and churn through the cornucopia of inanities.
But, you know, YMMV
How did you know MLB watches me ?
Does tinfoil help ?
Did DiMaggio rubout Kennedy over Marilyn ?
If I am just paranoid, am I safe from people tring to get me ?
I don't need drugs!
Though not diagnosed with ADHD, I've gone through periods where I've been able to concentrate on any given programming task for more than a minute or two before my mind drifted off. This started at work, then spread to hobby programming, and finally into conversations and relationships.
/., lwn, and LT because they were perfect for stories that I could digest in about 30 seconds. My on-the-job surfing grew to eat up more time than I'll admit here without posting as AC.
... Hmm, I wonder how many IQ points I've lost on this the fscking SCO suit.
During this period, I spent more and more time surfing sites like
Finally I tried going cold turkey from surfing and spent my spare time working through chess game transcriptions move-by-move [YMMV, insert some other fun activity involving prolonged concentration]. Things got better, and after about a week I'd regained my veneer of coherence.
I don't know of any formal studies, but I'm convinced that there's a correlation between how much I surf and how well I can concentrate.
The funny thing is I test higher on the liberal arts stuff and generally did better at it in high school, but going to a tech school the liberal arts was so insanely boring that even "normal" students were bored stiff and the few people who came for a mixed education (RIT has some liberal arts people due to the printing and photo stuff from being linked to Eastman Kodak) were absolutly made sick by the intro general liberal arts courses. Since leaving school I've gone the route of getting industry certifications but now I find myself wishing to go back and get a degree part time, I think I might be able to handle the boring class if I only have to focus on them one or at most two at a time.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
I also was diagnosed with having ADHD and after taking ritalin and having it make me completely unstable I stopped taking it and delt with it without medication for a number of years. I have noticed that when I consume heavy amounts of caffeine that I do calm down and am able to concentrate better. Althought this isn't really a scientific answer, but hey it seems to work for me.
I was fed stimulants from the age of 7 until the age of 14, eating them complacently every day, never questioning what it was that I was putting into my body.
Now, I have friends that take smaller doses than I did as a 100 pound child to get spun out of their gourds.
Generic for Adderal is Amphetamine Salts. Speed. Ritalin is not much different, nor is dexadrine. It's been around and abused by drug fiends since the 60's, and you should seriously consider what it is and the pragmatic affects it will have on your body, and state of well-being.
Learn as much about the drug as you can, enter not into this lightly.
-- Tucson Maik
"Too many children are being labeled for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and improperly placed on psychotropic drugs such as Ritalin and Adderall to be 'calmed down,' according to House testimony. Most child-health specialists agree that about 2% of schoolchildren 'are so pervasively overactive or inattentive that they are very difficult for anyone to manage.' But up to 17% of schoolchildren are being labeled for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD, said Dr. William B. Carey, director of behavioral pediatrics at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia." --The Washington Times - 9 Jun 2003
---------
David Neeleman is the CEO of JetBlue Airways. He has now been told that he has ADD. He didnâ(TM)t take drugs. I wonder where he would be today if his parents had forced Ritalin on him. Most probably not the head of a profitable airline.
NYTimes - ADHD - Neeleman
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"They made a list of the most common symptoms of emotional discomfiture of children; those which bother teachers and parents most, and in a stroke that could not be more devoid of science or Hippocratic motive--termed them a 'disease.' Twenty five years of research, not deserving of the term 'research.,' has failed to validate ADD/ADHD as a disease. Tragically--the "epidemic" having grown from 500 thousand in 1985 to between 5 and 7 million today--this remains the state of the 'science' of ADHD."
adhdfraud.com
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
Seriously. I have ADHD and it really sucks.
A lot of easy jokes have been made here, and frankly they all suck. I make sure not to mention to anyone that I have ADHD unless they are a good friend or need to know because the "did you take your meds?" joke isn't just tired by this point, it's painful.
I take Ritalin. It helps me a lot. It's the difference between holding down a good job and being unemployed and possibly even homeless. It really is that night and day. I am trying something new that can be taken along with Ritalin that might replace it, but in my all too real experience without Ritalin my life is a disorganized mess.
I don't really have more to add, but ADHD isn't as fun as you might think. It hurts your job prospects, it hurts your social life, and it hurts any projects you try to attempt.
On the upside, ADHD often comes with the ability to hyperfocus. I sometimes work on writing music for 8 or 9 hours at a time, completely obsessed with every minor detail, even forgetting to eat. If I could turn this on and off at the drop of a hat, I would have had a 4.0 in college. Instead I fought the ADHD like crazy and got a 3.3.
Most of you probably don't realize that ADHD has a tight association with dysthymia, a mild but chronic depression that in and of itself is self-destructive. If you're not careful the two disorders will feed off each other.
I'm 26 now. The Hyperactive part of the disorder mostly means that I'm a bit eccentric and excitable, where in the past it made me a social pariah. I've got a good therapist helping me leverage what advantages ADHD gives me and minimize the downsides. I'm glad I'm confronting my ADHD head on instead of dismissing it as a myth or an excuse for parents/teachers.
I agree that it's probably overdiagnosed, but for those of us who really have it, it sucks.
.
AD[H]D often confers a number of superpowers on those who have it: incredible memory for detail, ability to hyperfocus for long periods, ambidexterousness(!), and others.
However, in adults, especially adults who were not diagnosed as children, AD[H]D often co-occurs with a pervasive (mild) clinical depression, and a tremendous dose of ego damage resulting from having been told repeatedly in myriad ways that you're "not working up to your potential". (i.e., you could be good, but instead you're being bad, and obviously it's your fault.)
Learning to live really happily as an AD[H]D person can involve accepting all kinds of help: support from family, friends, and co-workers; psychotherapy; and medications such as Ritalin to help give the brain a more balanced level attentiveness (instead of only hyperfocused or totally scattered), and antidepressant medications (SSRIs), to help ease some of the inner self-flagellation that adult AD[H]Ders can do to themselves.
But fundamentally, there's one big lesson you and everyone around you have to learn: you don't perceive or process the world quite the same way other people do, regardless of what you (or they) wish. Acknowledge that, and you've started down a good path: finding your superpowers, living with your weaknesses, and getting support from people around you.
-Mark, diagnosed at age 30
There are all sorts of tactics you can take. I laughingly call it my "Shiny Ball" syndrome and joke about it with people who work with me.
But, what I've found is that an ADHD person makes an excellent "fireman." The truth is that you can sit in a room and catch a stray noise, or a grunt indicating frustration from one of your fellow employees -- and be there to help.
Talk to your manager. If he/she is less-than-a-troll, they'll work with you to use your "gift."
As for focus, I have gotten good at marking where I am in various projects and flitting between them without having to do a lot of ramp-up. Again, it's just adapting to the different way your brain works.
Now mine might not be as severe as some. I know that I got through LOTR books in three days of intense reading--because it fascinated me. But give me a 60-page manual to read at a desk and it will take me weeks to plow through it.
When learning new languages, I tend to bring the reference manual into the john with me. Laugh if you will but amazingly, it works very well. I learned C, Flash, Java, Python, PHP, piece-by-piece (ahem) using this method.
As long as you remain productive, you're an asset to yourself and your career -- find ways to make this work for you.
You may also find that you have a better-than-average ability to "read" people. In three other people I've met who are ADHD, we all had that in common -- my (admittedly parlor) theory is that ADHD people unconsciously pick up more of body language-type cues because they're paying attention to EVERYTHING and learn to process them at an early age...
For fun, next time you're in a restaurant, see how many distinct conversations you can follow.
Another thing that drives me nuts is when people in the theater are whispering to each other. They'll be a couple of rows back and it will break any chance I have of watching the movie. Of course my companions never hear a thing.
I was daignosed with ADHD in grade school. Mom thought it better not to put me on anything. I limped through school to college. In college I choked, hardcore. The amount of study required meant I *had* to focus, and I could not for any length of time.
Once in college I took it on myself to seek help. I found then that I was ADHD though for a long time before then I thought I was. I was on several drugs at different points trying to find out which helped me focus. Wellbutrin, Ritalin were amoung them. Ritalen helped, but was undependable, it wore off too quickly, and gave erratic results.
For years I had been self medicating with coffee. I didn't know it at the time, but I knew that it made it easier to focus and calmed me down. Caffine was at one time used as a treatment, but was found to be too short lived. I found that I did better on caffine because I can sip coffee all day, I can't constantly take pills.
After years of working on this, I think I've found a solution. You MUST get a lot of excercise. I've found that that helps the most of anything. If I don't bust my ass doing something at least 4 times a week I can't think at all. Second, you need to watch what you eat. Healthy is the word, stay away from sugar, junkfood, and use caffine in moderation. A cup of coffee before and while you get down and work on something is just the thing, but don't drink it all the time. Ritalin may help, but it metabolizes too fast in my experience. Wellbutrin may help as well, but it depends on exactly how you react to it.
Ultimately, you must work with ADHD. It isn't a flaw, like someone posted earlier, its an adaptation. It can be a superb advantage if you learn how to use it. It requires a lot of patience (something you probably don't have much of if you have ADHD) and work, but eventually, you can learn to focus and use it.
Pointers:
-Eat well, low sugar, high protien, veggies are good to slow down how fast you metabolize food.
-Exercise LOTS. You'll find that you don't stay tired long and after you'll feel more focused and relaxed.
-Watch your sleep schedule. You will focus much better if you get enough sleep, avoid over sleeping, you'll feel lethargic all day.
-Use LISTS. You know you won't remember, so write it down and get into the habit of checking your notes often.
-ORGANISE! This is a huge problem for most folks with ADHD. You will have to work at it, and work to keep it up, but it will help you focus and waste less time.
I hope this helps. I've been working on this for years and just now went back to college after failing out five years ago. It's tough, but it can be done, and its very worth it when you learn to work with what you have.
Working with it is key. I tried forcing myself to do 2 hour study sessions, it doesn't work. Go ahead and let yourself work on 3 things at once. Take frequent breaks. You just have to build discipline to keep at those three things and not let them turn into 10 things.
Good luck. Its a tough road to run without drugs, but it can be a lot of fun too.
A lot of you have made valid points regarding my question, and I thank you for those. As for the trolls, you don't exist to me anyway - I'm turned you off. :)
As for my story, I've gone through 3 jobs in 3 years, all in IT. Mainly as a programmer, but now I'm going out and visiting customers and thats working out a lot better..
However, I frequently (used to) look at my screen in utter confusion as to what I should be doing...
As for trying ritalin, I researched it for weeks before I let my doctor prescribe it for me, so yeah - I reckon I've covered most of the bases... my main reason for asking slashdot is because there is little information regarding ADHD in computer/IT works - at least that google can find..
I would continue this message, but my ritalin has worn off for today and forgot where my point was going...
I have ADD (w/out hyperactivity) and found that by taking B6 along with the ritalin, I needed a smaller dose. Also, I found that cutting back on sugars helped significantly.
"In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -- Carl Sagan, Cosmos
As cliche as this may sound, I think that a little ADD or ADHD is a good thing. I've never been diagnosed as having any of these (even though my high school was determined to), however I will often be thinking of multiple things at the same time. I've found that if you are able to have multiple ideas going through your head that it allows you to better grasp a concept. If you get sidetracked easily, try music, it helps keep one of your senses busy. In all honesty the widespread use of drugs to treat 'diseases' like this scares me. I'm not sure they really are diseases personally. People make such a big deal about 'Thinking Different' (think Apple campaigns) yet if they do people seem to want to put them down. (here comes the cliche) It's like 'the man's' way of trying to make us think HIS way. In all honesty though my biggest fear is that it can mess with the creative process. By making you to focus more on one issue you sort of surrender a lot of your freedom of thought it seems to me, which is just a bit creepy...
I guess one of my biggest reasons for this is I had a few friends over the years who were put on drugs which were meant to calm them down. Several of these people later had to be put on yet OTHER drugs to counter effect the acts of those drugs. Some of these people eventually took their lives.
Drugs can be a scary thing honestly. When you take them, you have to think to yourself... is this something that I REALLY need to do or that I REALLY want to do... and what side effects might it have later or more so what unintended consequences.
Legal or illegal...
[Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
{Traicovn}
I tried it once (as Zyban) in an attempt to quit smoking. It takes a few weeks to build up in your system. So about two weeks after I started I suddenly developed severe hives (large extremely itchy red patches all over your body) and my chest got kind of tight -- hard to breathe. I went to the emergency room for a shot of Epinephrin which worked for about a day, and then the hives were back in spades. I popped Benadryl like it was candy for the two weeks it took for the Wellbutrin to get out of my system. It was a horrible experience. They say 5% develop severe allergic reactions like I did. YMMV.
Clickety Click
The healthy kid isn't flunking or being expelled from school.
[I] was placed on academic probation in under a year despite having a 3.8 in my major
3.8 in under a year? That Intro to CS class must have been really tough.
No offense intended to sufferers of ADD/ADHD, but falling asleep during spanish class, church, family reunions, etc., isn't exclusive to the disorder. Anyone can stay focused on something that he/she is interested in (sex comes to mind). Staying focused on something that you don't enjoy is called self-discipline.
It's been made up so that the teachers and parents don't get blamed for not being able to make things interesting for children.
The diagnosis for the symptoms of ADHD should be that the brain works outside of what we are trying to shove into it.
There's a great article in the current issue of 'Mothering' magazine (Issue #118; May/June 2003).
If focuses on dealing with ADHD through your diet. What foods and additives to avoid, etc... The article touches on the Feingold diet for ADHD
Some other helpful articles about dealing with ADD through diet:
ADHD & Diet: How Food Affects Mood
Does ADHD Even Exist?: The Ritalin Sham
Several girlfriends have made me go to the doctor to ask for a cure. Several doctors said that if the condition does not interfere with life, then I should not worry about it. The girlfriends were not happy with the doctors, but I was off the hook for a while. Last year, a woman broke up with me for the reason: "You get bored and distracted too easily." So it does interfere with my personal life, but I never want to take mood-altering drugs.
One doctor said that the condition was probably a large factor in my success. The ability to jump from topic to topic meant I could handle the chaos of IT in the corporate world. The hyperactivity meant I could keep moving at a fast pace and accomplish more than normal people. And the other side of ADD is that sometimes I focus on one task so much that I cannot give attention to anything else, but that symptom defines the programmer "in the zone."
It definitely has a positive effect on my work life.
It definitely has a negative effect on long term relationships.
I have the choice of:
1. Being high-income and productive,
OR
2. Taking drugs to keep the relationships towards having a family.
I have chosen #1. I still hope to find a woman who wants to keep me as I am. I figure that I do not want a woman who could only live with me if I am drugged. But I almost regret the lost opportunity of having a family.
BTW, this condition is the primary reason for my sig.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
So,
I was "Diagnosed" with ADD by some psychiatrist. He didnt really seem to care and wrote me prescriptions for Ritalin. It helped in some ways but it seemed like a drug. I stopped taking it and stopped seeing the psychiatrist. I dont take anything now, I just get some of my work done and get distracted a lot. I do helpdesk for a medium sized company, so there are millions of distractions. I dont really think Ritalin would help anyway.
or frank could just come out of the closet and tell us all... we won't tell on you, promise
I haven't found ADHD to be much of a problem at work now that I take those herbal remedies. Some people say they don't work, but...Oh, did you see Family Guy tonight? I love when Lois says 'someone lost an 'I' this week at Bingo' and then a guy...oh wait, sorry, we were talking about ADHD....So yeah, the herbal remedies work pretty well for me I think.
My Sig is Sauer.
I have just started taking medication for this for the first time since I was a kid. I am 31, and am finding it helps me immensely for work/school.
And since it is not an upper, you do not get the down time you feel from things like Ridalin.
Anyways, my experience as a child can attest that after 5 years of ritalin while goin through highschool the only thing that the drugs ever did for me was kept me from causing distractions in class for other kids.
After they stopped giving me ritalin, I began using caffeine with some success as a replacement. Unfortunately, the side effects of caffeine are known to many of us and eventually I found that it caused more problems than it solved.
Suggestions for coping with ADHD without drugs would mainly entail analysing what has worked for you in the past. You don't suddenly develop this problem, you've lived with it all your life so if you think back to when you had problems concentrating and staying on task, think about what you did to cope with those problems.
In my situation, I eliminated my dependancy on caffeine and began excersizing. I don't know if it would help others, but after a serious half hour work out I can get a good 4 or 5 hours of focused work in before I'm AWOL again. Might work for others, but for short term easy fixes, caffeine is your friend.
I hit a little crystal before I work, too.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I feel it is necessary to clear up some rather unfounded beliefs that a large number of people on slashdot seem to be perpetrating:
1. Not all stimulants have concentration enhancing effects. In fact, other than perscription drugs, the only commonly consumed substance that is conclusively linked with enhanced concentration performance is cocaine. And I do NOT recommend that for anyone, let alone anyone with ADHD.
2. Caffeine does NOT enhance concentration in a healthy, well rested brain. Period. It can help you ignore your fatigue. Period. Go off caffeine for a year, and use some decent day planning skills (get a good night's sleep), and you'll realize that caffeine doesn't do anything good for you (once you are over the withdrawl).
3. A drug that simply enhances the presence of any neurotransmitter, or raises the levels of precursors is in general useless. Period. Pouring gasoline (petrol) on top of your car's engine does nothing to enhance its performance. So these stupid herbal supplements that have "precursors" are almost certainly snake-oil, or canned spinach (Popeye syndrome). Only drugs that help enable natural production and transmission are useful. So these moronic studies that link increased [insert neurotransmitter] levels when you take [insert snake-oil/bogus drug] are fundamentally meaningless, and used SOLELY to sell you drugs.
Now, onto ADHD:
So you've been diagnosed, and you feel like you can concentrate more with ritalin. Of course you can. The question isn't are you "sharper" with ritalin, but are you functional without it in the presence of stimulation? Can you play a video game/watch a movie for 2 hours? If so, there is almost NO CHANCE IN HELL that you have ADHD, you just need to learn discipline.
Now, this isn't just the aloof ramblings of some asshole who doesn't believe in ADHD. However, I know that it is fundamentally overdiagnosed, and misunderstood. I know a lot of people who are "ADHD" and only one of them do I have any inclination to believe it.
Learn to pay attention, focus, do some hard work, get your hands dirty, and stop complaining.
/anonymous for effect
I have a roommate who has this so-called disease, and from what I've seen he's just rude, loud, insensitive, undisciplined, and unfathomably selfish. Whenever he forgets something, he blames it on his ADHD. He's on three different meds -- including Adderall -- but he drinks and smokes all the time (which counteracts the drugs and/or produces horrible and dangerous side effects). Still, this isn't a problem, because he never takes the meds. He saves them up until exam time, so that he can pull week-long all-nighters on his legalized amphetamines.
The remarkable thing is that he can sit for hours, and hours, and hours, and hours, and hours playing Everquest, completely focused on this fake world. So, why can't he focus on the real one? Probably because it requires him to do real work and suffer real consequences for his failure. It's easier just to retreat into the sham of ADHD, get some meds and some sympathy, and agitatedly sniff and snort his way through life without taking responsibility for anything.
Any of you so-called ADHD sufferers, I have no doubt that there is a very, very small percentage among you who suffer a genuine chemical imbalance. But the rest of you are victims of an enormous scam. You're paying out the nose for solutions to problems that could easily be fixed by self-discipline, parental control in the formative years, and a little bit of critical self-examination.
But instead people are labeled as ADHD, given happy pills, and expect to have special treatment all through life. Well, here's the reality. A client isn't going to give a damn if you can't "focus" long enough to produce your deliverable. A boss isn't going to listen to your excuses that you have this strange disease which sounds to him like slacking off. Your family isn't going to understand when you get canned for being disjointed and lazy from the point of view of your supervisors (however different the reality of your life is). This is a brutal job market, and "I couldn't pay attention" isn't going to hack it as an excuse.
My advice is to get an intense, distracting hobby like parachuting or woodwork. If my "severely" ADHD roommate can sit at a desk for hours and dedicate endless cycles to getting some artifact in EQ, he can certainly apply that same energy to the real world. If you try to tell me that EQ is more vibrant than the real world, I will laugh at you.
No, ADHD sufferers should liberate themselves. They should decide here and now that this disease is nothing more than an excuse foisted upon them by society too busy to teach them self-reliance. And if you don't like to hear this, think about how dependent you are on others for your survival in an ADHD world. Your fixer^H^H^H^H^Hdoctor's pen determines whether you get your hit^H^H^Hmedications. You depend on people around you accepting that you have a disease whose existence is unproven except at the fringe.
Take control of your own lives. Decide you're going to run the show, not a lab-coated shill who gets a kickback on his Adderall prescriptions.
I have Adult ADHD. I wont' take pills for it except for when I need to study (bum a few). I found that 5-htp, and THC are the best solution. I tried GHB before that it worked well, but now it is illegal... Sorry for being a coward anonymously but I don't want ashcroft after me.
insensitive clod you mean....
shoot... I've contributed to the feeding of a troll...
I was diagnosed with "adult ADHD" a few years ago and tried a number of medications, including both Ritalin and a drug called Adderall, which contains dextroamphetamine ("Dexadrine") along with another isomer of the same chemical formula.
The stimulants did help me concentrate, but they also caused me to become somewhat "manic" in the sense that I got extremely overoptimistic about a business venture (an invention involving wireless, recordable toys that could talk back and forth to each other). I then spent far too much of my own money on the project, and ended up with troublesome debts.
I was never psychotic, violent, or dangerous, so maybe what I had should be called "hypomania" (a milder version) rather than "mania", but I really did go out and spend far too much money! And spending too much money is one of the hallmarks of mania.
Even though I stopped taking amphetamines several years ago, I still miss that enthusiasm and the ability to hyper-concentrate for long periods. But I would say that overall, taking those drugs was a mistake, and I would not do it again.
Just my two cents.
Sigmund
and you made me laugh so much with that crack. Thanks for the laugh!!!! Someone mod this up!!
Seems like everyone these days is diagnosed with that. I was. Many many years ago. I never too Ritaline, or Norpromine / Desipramine. I think it does nothing but sedate your mind so you can't do squat. I'm 22 and run all of IT for a fairly large company.
Just smoke pot instead.
I have been hyperactive all my life and have had ADHD all my life and have dealt with it without resorting to drugs. My parents never were given the option of Ritalin no less would then ever dream of my taking it. It has been quite hard to deal with (especially when I was a kid).
To make matters worse I was recently diagnosed as bi-polar (although not severe). There are times when my condition helps quite a bit (how many ~30 year olds can code for 72 hours straight?? and good code mind you). But it has also made certain things difficult. I find there are certain people that I cannot get along or work with. Also there are some times that I am totally unable to concentrate and that getting any work done becomes impossible no matter how hard I try.
I have dealt with this condition all my life and have found ways of dealing with it effectively. I schedule things and write them down (whiteboards are great for this, but I must do this even at home). I limit my caffinee and sugar intake (only 1 starbucks a day). I eat (sounds silly, but as long as I am eating non-sugarry stuff its easier to operate, not sure why. I eat a 5lb bag of carrots in an amazing short amount of time). I take walks and stare at a lake ( basically this calms me down for a while and allows me to concentrate). I try to deal with it ( a concious effort 24 hours a day ). I know that I have a condition and I don't try to kid myself (never have).
I now work for a large ISP and previously worked for a couple larger companies doing network engineering and network security. Overall I am quite good at my job and always have been. It has become easier over the years, partly because I am aging, and partly because I am getting better at dealing with it rather then letting it deal with me (does that make sense?)
My two nieces are now ~9 and 7. Their parents put them on ritalin at the first sign of ADHD and now I hate seeing them ( and hate their parents for destroying their kids). They are like zombies and are now in need of the drug for anything like normality. This is not an isolated case in my experience.
My last bit of drivel: If Ritalin is helping you, and not hurting you, Great. I would suggest that you monitor yourself for side-effects and every month or so attempt to lower the dose or even go cold-turkey for a while to see how it goes. Make sure that you can get off the drug. Also attempt to deal with the problem yourself. I know several people (several co-workers) with varing degrees (and age-groups) of ADHD, some deal well others dont. The ones that are able to deal with it well on their own tend to end up better for it.
-Lord Shadow
Obviously you have never had any contact with someone with true ADHD or you have never made the effort to understand what it is like.
This does not come from someone not wanting to keep their attention on one particular task. This is something that, despite all possible, conscious efforts to focus on one thing, causes you to lose your focuse every several seconds.
How does it feel to be just another useless moron, whining and squealing for your attention? Go educate yourself before posting next time.
I got diagnosed with ADHD last week and took my first Ritalin the same day. For me, it was wonderful. The problem, I think, with trying to get guidelines and advice about ADHD is that there is such a range in severity among people, a huge variety of behaviors/symptoms, and tremendous variation in how the various drugs work with various people. My first reactions to Ritalin have been pure joy. But you'll know if it helps you. Think about it: Ritalin is basically amphetamines, so if it calms you down and clears the noise in your head (my reaction), you clearly have the ADHD body chemistry. I'm working with my doctor to figure the right dosage out now. Also, there is a variety of drugs available: I suggest working with your doctor to find one or a combination and dosages which are right for you.
I don't have time to go into how ADHD has affected me other than to say it's the story of my life. Looking back, it explains so very much.
I have a mild case, not sufficient to have kept me from earning multiple advanced degrees, etc., but everything was always way harder than it should have been. I like the focus, the clarity, and the calmness that Ritalin gives me and it greatly facilitates the coping behaviors I have developed over a long time. However, I can see that a number of ADHD behaviors are extremely deeply ingrained. Like any other long-term habits, they are difficult to break, but for the first time, I am able to start countering them, without feeling, for instance, that every cell in my body is telling me to procrastinate or do something else counterproductive.
Congratulations on finding out and good luck!
try some herb.
As someone who uses MDMA more than he'd like, I'd like to say that 5-HTP is not a natural precursor to serotonin.
While 5-HTP is the last metabolic step in the production of serotonin (5-HT), it does not naturally occur in significant amounts in human diets. 5-HTP is instead metabolized from L-Tryptophan, an essential amino acid. Tryptophan was banned due to unidentified toxins present in certain batches of the nutritional supplement.
This may seem like nitpicking, but there is an important difference between the way the human body handles 5-HTP and tryptophan. Although we're extremely good at rate limiting the conversion of tryptophan to 5-HTP, we're not so good at rate limiting 5-HTP -> 5-HT. This means that ingesting too much 5-HTP can lead to a temporary condition known as serotonin overload, which could be described as rolling on MDMA without the fun. Dose with care!
do of course include Cocaine and Heroin too...
For ADD, you need to use a stimulant, so copious amounts of Coffee will probably help a lot.
BTW, Cocaine will help too, being a very strong stimulant, but it will probably get you into more trouble than you can handle. Good old Aspirin or an Anti-histamine common cold remedy will probably work too.
So, maybe you should try a combination of 6 or more cups of coffee and one 'baby' Aspirin 80mg tablet a day with an occational hay-fever antihistamine...
Oh well, what the hell...
Simple ADHD test: "In chapter 7, what kind of car did Gatsby drive?"
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
I have ADD and no hyperactivity.
ADD is far less treatable medicaly, and my doctor recomended against any medicine except for school (at work I should cope).
I am a very good worker in general I believe, but I do spend about 30 minutes of my 8 hour workday trying to find stuff I misplaced. Stupid little things like tape and pens.
If I work a 12 hour shift I probably waste another 30 minutes in my last 4 hours.
I do my best to kick ass and get through as much work as possible. Since a lot of people flat out don't give work their all while they are working I more than make up for my disadvantages.
So my advice is to be likable and work hard.
Also as a warning, there have been some studies that found brain chemistry changes similar to long term cocaine use in long term ritalin use (duh, it kinda is the same).
here
I took ritalin when there were no other options and I was speedin hard core on a minimum dose (again ADD, not ADHD).
whatever blah.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
...ADHD is a genetic trait left over from the Hunter Gatherer Days. People with ADHD were good farmers. However because we now live in a farmer's world, ADHD is classified as a disorder because it isn't beneficial. Farmer's plan and patiently await the growth of their food.. (or do paperwork)... Whereas hunters enjoy the thrill of the hunt...
Some 43% of "ADHD" symptoms are easily mitigated with visual training. The computer makes it worse. These programs take 3-4 months of a once or twice a week eye workout. Can move vision by 10 points too. Which means that most of us with glasses can give them up.
PS Train in 4 mo to read 8k wpm.
http://dowisvisiontherapy.com/vision_quiz.html
I've had this "disease", um, personality trait, :-)
forever, but only relatively recently have I
decided that I'd be better without it (after
taking zyban/wellbutrin to stop smoking...). I'd
always discounted the negative effect of these
traits, but after being "normal" for the 4 months
the wellbutrin was in my system, and realizing
how much more productive (in a straight line
I was, I started researching and experimenting
with dietary supplements to get a similar effect.
What I came up with was the following concoction
taken 3 times daily, 30-45 minutes before meals
if possible...
5-HTP (50mg)
guarana extract (300mg) (low caffeine %)
ginseng (50mg)
The best side-effect is that I am sleeping
_much_ better (like, actually feeling rested
when I wake).
enjoy.
What f*ing box!?!?
A good friend of mine has pretty bad ADHD. When you are around him and he isn't taking his medicine (and to a lesser degree when he is), it is pretty damn obvious that he is ADHD. He will go on about any subject at any time, and he shows a general hyperactivity. When he gets really tired and doesn't have medication, he just gets plain weird. I don't know how to explain it really. Sometimes it is like he is drunk, although he is totally sober. All in all, people can be a little uncomfortable around him when they first meet him, but once you get to know him I think the ADHD makes him more interesting to be around. Never a dull moment.
However, as far as technical things go, I think that it has helped him a lot. He is a mechnical engineer, and he possesses the creative knack that all good engineers have. I think part of this is that he can think about problems in many different ways trying to find the best solution. He still manages to get his work done, but I think he is able to concentrate on it more because it is what he truly enjoys doing. He has problems focusing on stuff that doesn't interest him.
I was born before the whole ADHD thing and as an adult one of my friends said that I have "all the signs" of ADHD.
.very very odd. . .
I never even thought of it before but what he said turned out to be true. When I was in grade school I could not focus on my work (looking outside was much more interesting!) so the Janitor built me a cubicle around my desk (in 3rd grade):).
Went to a doctor when older -- apparently he thought I have ADHD too and gave me Adaroll. Great stuff -- made me *very* happy and allowed me to focus like a magnifying glass, but it had two bad personality side effects:
* I lost my "wide" view of things -- I usually hate to get caught up in the little details of work and love the "big picture" and seeing how whole systems worked together. On Adaroll, all I cared about was perfecing the little things.
* It put me in what I consider my "psyco-obsessive" stage where I would stay up all night working on something because I could not let it go.
This and the usual dry mouth and lack of eating.
These two things above disturbed me -- but what disturbed me even more is that Adaroll is *really* good. I'm talking like addictive good. And after getting addicted to cigarettes that freaked me out and I dropped the Adaroll thing.
My prognosis: I'm better without Adaroll. Its like the whole glasses thing -- people ask me whay I don't wear glasses other then driving if I can't see far away and I answer that the world has been fuzzy my whole life and glasses mess it up and make me learn how to do things all over again.
I don't know what the answer is but I've come to the conclusion that it is not Adaroll. Life used to be big ups and downs and in retrospect I loved the emotion but hated the lack of stability. Now that I am older the ups and downs are gone and I have learned to deal with keeping myself focused on things but the emotion has disappeared making everything seem dull and I long for the ups and downs again.
As I get older the "ADHD symptoms" fade away (either through maturity or learning to work with it) but so does the love for life. .
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
As a kid I was diagnosed with a whole lot of mental "disorders." They narrowed it down to ADD, Tourette's, Asperger's, and the things they're not sure of. They never prescribed drugs for my mental conditions.
I absolutely cannot think of 2 things at once. If I'm listening, I cannot think. If I'm speaking, I can't think, causing long pauses between sentences. If I'm thinking, I'm deaf and somewhat blind. If I'm lucky, a few words will reach me minutes later. On the other hand, I seem to be very well compensated by my mental strengths.
I'll just have to be extra careful not to drive while talking on the cellphone and listening to the radio with a friend in the passenger seat.
The world needs more imbalanced minds, so long as they aren't evil.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I was diagnosed with ADD quite a while ago, by several different doctors. It was amusing when the latest tried to "break it to me" with a long, gradual, build-up of a speech- It's nothing to be afraid of...It's going to be O.K. ... I thought he was going to tell me I had freak'n cancer.
Anyway, I've had a lot of time for introspection about this. From reading, talking with other ADD types as well as a couple friends who are docs, I've come to believe that there might be several different types of ADD, each stemming from roughly the same basic biochemistry, yet each subtly different, somehow, in source & expression. This having been said, my point is that I believe ADD is relatively unique in it's manifestation and treatment for individuals. You have to be very proactive in seeking treatment(s) that work for you. Even more important, once you've found a treatment, you then have to work hard to dismantle the habits (usually bad ones) that you created in order to cope with the untreated condition- You know what I'm talking about.
For me, the chemicals to treat my condition include Concerta (Time-released Ritalin), Piracetam (Look it up...I get mine from InHome Health Services, and it is legal), and Vinpocetine. Again, this regimen was created over a number of years- I read incessantly, and carefully titrated doses of different prescription / non-prescription drugs up and down, while watching what they did to me- I also kept my doctor in the loop as a judgment sanity-check. PITA, yes, but it paid off. Don't forget to explore bio-feedback training; I've read some good (neutral and bad as well) things about it...it's worth looking into. Good Luck.
There is only ADHD broken down into three types: inattentive, hyperactive-impulsive, and combined.
I suppose they recommend a zeta scan to re-align your neurodynes. Well you might gain a point of luck out of the deal, but then everybody in New San Francisco will have you pegged as an AHS1. I tried my best to get the AHS7 to launch the spacecraft but he kept stalling, so I gave him 20 super-stimpacks and snuck away quickly. Then my and my droogs came back later and mopped the place up.
Personally, I don't have any form of hyperactivity (brother did, though), but have had major problems with allocating attention to a specific task because my attention has always been stolen away by being hyperaware. I've had mercury poisoning. Mercury is persistant in today's polluted environment: it's in fish, our teeth, injections, ink etc. Some people are more vulnerable to mercury than others. Mercury can have effects on the body that include the inhibition of certain things required to properly absorb dietary minerals. When a person is not properly absorbing dietary minerals, they become deficient. Deficiency in these minerals (especially zinc, but magnesium in my case) can have profound neuropsychological effects. These include depression, hyper spacial-awareness (in my case), ADHD, anorexia, etc.
So a typical profile would be thusly:
Child has some degree of mercury exposure (as all children do). Child is one of those who is genetically predisposed to being more vulnerable to mercury, or has had a larger than usual amount passed on to them by their mother. Child eats standard diet (which is deficent in minerals because of modern overfarming techniques). Child drinks food colouring in drink. Food colouring chelates (removes) zinc from the body. Child has the consequential neuropsychological effects.
Defiencies in these minerals (which have effects on your neurotrasmitters) mean your brain doesn't properly shut off attention to things. Ritalin does synthetically what your body isn't getting (such as zinc) to provide you with properly-functioning neurochemistry.
Misfunctioning neurochemistry relatant to the improper absorbtion of dietary minerals is probably a predominent causation factor in things like ADHD, anorexia, schizophrenia etc. (though medical circles are verhmintly against this, even though their own medical research supports it).
Some people report that their hyperactivity problems are alergic reactions to gluten (found in wheat).
So before you plaster yourself with ritalin, do the medical research yourself. You may have heavy-metal poisoning, you may be alergic to something, you may have deficienies in dietary minerals which merely require a vitamin pill to correct, you may just need those mercury fillings removed.
I myself noticed a massive difference in my state of mind within two days of taking a zinc/magnesium pill (and at low doses). I have always eaten a good diet, but could not get what I needed from it because of today's poor farming and my mercury poisoning.
So do the research, or get an intelligent friend to if you're too hyper, even if it takes several hundred hours, it will be worth it.
PS beware of vitamin pills, you need to have a knowledge in vitamins or else you may buy something that will do more harm than good; they're often irresponsible with what they put in them.
Please, people, DON'T try to self-diagnose with the DSV-IV! The thing is written for professionals, who have a lot of training to help distinguish between what's normal and what's a problem.
Yes, a hell of a lot of people could describe themselves with those same words. We all get distracted sometimes, etc, etc. But that's not what ADHD is. It's when these things become PROBLEMATIC. Not every cough is SARS.
Yes, it has been overdiagnosed. Blame fad parenting. (yes, I meant 'fad' not 'bad'). No longer do parents seek out a doctor when their child appears ill. No, they go to the doctor with ADHD already in mind, because they saw the Ritalin add in Home & Garden.
But that doesn't mean that it isn't a very real problem for some.
Hi, I a rarely post so I'm an anonymous coward today but do occupy a lot of my procrastination time here (go figure). Anyway, I've found the following about my productivity vis a vi my ADHD. BTW, I'm 34 and was diagnosed at 10 and given ritalin and quickly taken off of it. My teachers (all of them) accused me of being a daydreamer. That may sound familiar to many of you. I was also at the top of my class in standardized testing and started programming computers at 12. Enough of the history...
;)
1) Coffee helps me. I'm addicted, yes, and don't know if it *really* helps but I believe that it helps me focus.
2) If you are in front of your computer and can't "get into" the project, just walk away and come back later. because...
3) As you know, when you are productive you are *very* productive and wasted time surfing/procrastinating/whatever just amounts to wasted time no matter how much time you spend trying to "get into" your project.
4) I find that I concentrate best when I'm slightly tired (evening) or completely fresh (morning).
5) Exercise and other activities outside of your work are vital for providing external/other stuff that your brain is craving. Don't ignore them.
6) Don't be discouraged by the diagnoses. Like many things, ADD/ADHD is a double-edged sword. When you are interested and able to concentrate on a project you'll find that the hyperconcentration works to your advantage. Many many talented people are ADHD.
7) Don't read too much into the Diagnosis. ADHD is a 'threshold' thing and you may happen to be over the threshold. It's not a black and white issue.
Good luck, have fun and for crying out loud... do you *really* need to have 15 browser windows, two magazines, a TV and 25 downloads on Kazaa going?
If you want my honest opinion, i *enjoy* ADHD, or at least used to. I would get so excited about certain things- things that would completely consume my interest and time. I loved it. Spending a whole day with something i.e. coding, or solid-state electronics, or guitar, or Lego, or mechanical things. I would get so much gratification and joy out of it. Although i will say that it is a definate contributor to my lack of performance scholastically in certian subjects, it also drove me to excel in others: i.e. English, Art, Chemistry, Physics, etc.
/.'ers (and general geeks) *ALL* talk about similar life experiences, and/or admit they have ADHD or battle with Depression.
I've never taken any drugs for it (my parents are cool like that).
These days, unfortunately, it is shrouded quite a bit with Major Depressive Episodes. I don't take any meds for that either, but i've had many suggest i should.
And then there are the "Politically Correct" people trying to dissolve stereotypes, and consider ADHD "a disease, that requires medication". Personally, i think certain people are wired a certain way, and you really can't change who they are. If you don't believe me, watch how may
The first major mistake I made in my professional career out of college was to tell my boss that I had ADHD. Now, he's been looking for a way to give me the axe for the past few months using my "weaknesses" as justification. Maybe my boss is unusually discriminative, but the fact remains that many people fail to accept that ADHD exists as a medical condition. However, it is as real as someone needing a hearing aid or reading glasses -- just because you can't see it or hear it doesn't mean it isn't there.
I've tried Zoloft and Ritalin, but stopped medication after I graduated from college. I did not appreciate the side effects, but have found that martial arts/meditation coupled with a good diet (and a little bit of Pepsi throughout the workday) help me immensely.
I am 24, and was diagnosed with ADHD about 9 years ago. The final diagnosis wasnt as ive read on here. It took about a year of weekly sessions to finally come to the conclusion. It was also determined that my brother, and sister were both either ADD, or ADHD (you arent both as some people on here have said they were). Sessions with my fater realized that he was probably ADD or ADHD in his youth. I didnt start taking medication right away because I didnt think I needed chemicals to be "normal". After the first few car accidents and a few speeding tickets, and barely graduating highschool (enrolled in advanced classes, teachers didnt understand why I was failing). I reviewed it all and talked to the doctor about it. He explained to me that ADD or ADHD isnt a disease, or a mental problem, but it is more of a relic from times of past. Senses and abilities that arent used in this day and age. Heightened awareness of surroundings (makes it hard to focus on tedious things), strong and very reactive mental defense mechanisms (probably why it is normally more apparent in broken homes). ADD/ADHD people tend to be very impulsive, act on instincts alone (probably why I was a very good motorcycle roadracer?). He went on to explain that its not understood, and they arent sure why some of these medications work, but the theory that I believe from my experiences is that your mind has trouble filtering out all of the senses it receives. Instead of focussing on the road, and driving, your mind hears/sees the road, the rattle in the dash, the rear-view mirror, the radio station fading out, the cell phone, the car beside you, and EVERY thing elses it receives. All at once. I dont look at it as a hinderance at all, it is one of the things that makes me ME. Intelligence is commonly associated with ADD/ADHD. As well as curiousity, awareness, spacial ability, logic thinking. I dont find any of these traits to be bad (at least in the computer world!). I do have certain special needs. I cannot be couped up in the office all day. Thats probably why the jobs that I have enjoyed the most are jobs where I work with many different people on a daily basis, and tend to be out of the office alot. I find no ill side-effects if Ritalin, I sleep well, I have a healthy appetite (man, 24, been putting on a few pounds recently :). I stopped taking it a few years back just to see what would happen. After a few months, I started getting behind on work, and totalled my car. I got back on it and havent really had a problem since. The other misconception people have about ADD/ADHD is that we are all spastic freaks. Not true, I get my bouts of hyperactivity from time to time, but im a very easy going person, nothing much really bothers me, and Im very tolerant. I still have problems getting paperwork in on time at work, and I tend to procrastinate when it comes to paying bills, and I tend to try to cut the 1.5+ hour/87 mile commute down to 1 hour or less, but I get by just fine
Like most who'll respond to this question, I'm an ADHDer. I am, in fact, a classic case of both types (hyperactive and inattentive). Additionally, I have the pleasure of living with Asperger's syndrome, a form of high-functioning autism that mostly affects social functioning (it also has symptomatic similarities with obsessive-compulsive disorder and Tourette syndrome).
I have found the combination provides for a most stimulating life. *grin* I have quite a high IQ, an unusual amount of creativity, and a bottomless supply of energy. I can multi-task like nobody's business, read over a thousand words per minute, and have a phenomenal memory.
On the down-side, it took me much longer to mature (socially and emotionally) than most folks. In junior college, I was probably equivalent to a 16 year old, and didn't really "grow up" until about 25 or so. Since then I've found that my intellectual development has actually made me _more_ emotionally stable and secure than the average, and while I'm still a social turnip, I'm much better than I was in college.
As far as work experiences go, I'd have to say that it's been more of an advantage than a disadvantage. I've found that my ability to multi-task and my relative speed allow me to get more done than anyone else I've worked with, something that's always endeared me to management. The down-side has been paperwork and office politics. Although I'm not completely useless in this area (having worked in both project and middle-management), I'm not as good people have expected me to be. However, any shortcomings here have always been made up for by my efficiency, and I've consequently always had favourable reviews.
One more thing- I have not taken medication for my ADHD since I was 10. I've found that discipline and philosophy go a lot further in helping one manage this condition. 'Course, that probably only works for certain personality types, and I was undoubtedly aided by my other condition. *grin* Anyone interested in discussing my methodology for managing ADHD can write me at slashdot at morthaur dot net; I'd be happy to help out if I can.
+++++++
"Look, dear, it's a crazy hairy scary man!"
Question: How many ADD children does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Answer: Hey, letâ(TM)s go ride bikes!
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
Parents need to understand that we are talking about very potent, addictive and abusable substances
Ritalin: one of the most dangerous and addictive drugs available
Strange but true I have found a lot of people with ADHD are good a some form of technological trade. Perhaps this is due to the extra energy we tend to generate which we can lend to our creative abilities, or the ability to literally take that energy and, as I heard on psychologist put it, "hyper-focus" where we are capable of blocking out everything for a task.
I find that I have a hard time getting started on a project, but once I get started I cant stop and I will literally pull all nighters in the blink of an eye and not even feel tired when I am done. It is all a question of control for people with ADHD if you can master the energy and learn to in a way harness it, there is an awful lot you can do.
Dont be embarassed about having ADHD, everything happens for a reason, and having ADHD means that for some reason someone somewhere felt it required that you be born with it, whether it is a blessing or a curse, only you can decide.
How about this: Get a fucking grip.
ADHD, ADD, and whatever flavor-of-the-month acronym is just a cop-out for not being able to deal with life. It's an excuse for sub-par performance, and it's bullshit.
Your "...someone with true ADHD..." statement makes it sound like you know somebody closely who bought into this particular line of shit. They're a flake, and you're in denial about it. You must make a lovely couple.
As for "whining and squealing", ask somebody claiming to have ADHD and see whether they can concentrate long enough to give you a coherent answer.
Some of the greatest leaders of the world were bipolar [FDR, Churchill], some of the greatest artists were schizophrenic [ Van Gogh], etc.
Societal norms are not always for the best. You should not contort your life to fit into someone else's mainstream. Clearly, if you suffer sympoms that make your life uncomfortable, you should treat them. But not everyone should have a long attention span [otherwise there would be no TV execs.]
What appears to be a weakness to some is a great asset to others.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain with all your metadata.
Drink coffee! It's a poor man's Ritalin.
Drink latté! It tastes better then ritalin.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
I was often in danger of failing school. The lack of focus meant I would learn many things while the teacher would focus on one. Luckily, I have good memory and almost no learning curve, so I could absorb the current lesson, and bring it back to my forebrain with a quick review just before tests. But our education system is not designed for people like me.
The hyperactivity and tendency to interrupt with the answer made me unpopular. Other students discourage "know-it-alls". Again, our education system is about conforming, and we do not.
I was fired from almost every job I had until I was 25. I would learn the job quickly and perform outstandingly for a while. By the fourth month, I was bored and it would affect my performance. I was not wise enough to quit before my performance caused my termination, even when I knew it was about to happen.
There is a perfect job for me, and that is what I have done for the last 7 years. It is called "consulting". I am not using the word to mean a worker that is not on the payroll, but is working in the same position for 6 months or more. I consult. My job is to provide a very high level of expertise to accomplish certain tasks, and then leave. My projects run from hours to about 4 months. I started two projects in February. I spent all of April working for a different company. I worked for a third company for one day in May. There have been other projects for these companies, and I am finishing the original two projects this week. If I had to only work on a single project for more than 4 months, my productivity would suffer. Luckily, I have found a niche where I can contribute and thrive.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
i find this hole kajalabob about adhd disorders
... and has them checked out by a doctor who is far to willing to prescribe ritalin or some other dope drug medication call it what you will ... to help aid them with their so called disorder ...
...
...
alarming it seems when a "group" of people think some one cannot concentrate on a particular subject or have trouble remaining "calm" in controlled enviroments the group convinces others that the person who lacks control has some kind of disorder
when what is most likely the problem is being entirely overlooked...
the person has a lack of discipline
and its the failure of the institutions that be, to install the necassry discipline in all people...
with less and less time being available to individual attention and more effort being focused on mass control the group will always come up with some definition describing those that do not conform to their ways or, order
and will implement means to force the control they are looking for
adhd is not a disorder it is a made up description used to persuade others into conforming into a so called norm
Music the Paint dancefloor the canvas your body the brush
ADD (et al) would not be in the human population unless it does (or at one time did) confer an evolutionary advantage. People with ADD tend to be easily distracted, but they also tend to be better than average at processing multiple input streams at once and multitasking. There may be other advantages to ADD, or it could be linked with genes that provide survival traits.
...and don't forget that while ADD might be over-diagnosed in rich white suburbs, it is under-diagnosed in other populations.
In much the same way, back when humans lived in small tribes, it was helpful to have a paranoid person (hypersensative to danger, able to rapidly draw intuitive conclusions).
We see the same things with other genetic problems like sickle cell anemia (confers maleria resistence if you only have one recessive gene), tay-sachs (may confer tuberculosis resistance to carriers), and many others.
The point is that genetic variation and adaptation in humans applies also to the structure of our brains, which can affect our personalities.
It is important that we be aware of these variations, and try to put ourselves in positions (jobs or academic programs) where our particular traits are advantages, and not liabilities.
If you are near-sighted, you *could* try to become a fighter pilot, because in America, you can do what you want. On the other hand, you could stop fighting your body, and attempt to find happiness as a doctor or engineer (for example).
If you are easily distracted, but capable of attending to many details, maybe you should consider becoming a dispatcher, or a cop, or a programmer for a fast-paced software startup.
These aren't the best examples, but my point is that instead of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, maybe you could take the time to investigate the world and see what you like to do, and what you are good at. Then you can spend your life doing something that you are "tuned" for.
But, until then, drugs and therapy can help you cope with situations like high school, that you have to make it through before you'll have the change to make these decisions yourself.
Properly supervised, Ritalin and related drugs are not crutches, any more than sun screen for fair skinned people is a crutch.
Speaking as someone with ADD, it isn't always a bad thing, just as long as you train yourself to control it and use it to your advantage. For the most part, it keeps you from having a "normal" baseline as far as dividing your time up, but this isn't always a bad problem. Two examples:
Multitasking: That need for constant stimulation can also keep you focused and on top of many things at once, having cocurrent projects going on, and several tasks. The juggling is incredibly easy, alibit very confusing to those you have to work with. The main problem is it can be difficult to finish when they become tedious, as they often do, but it can be overcome.
Hyperfocus: Another tendency those with ADD, and something I would never want to give up. It is just the rush of getting working on something, be it finishing up that coding project, or writing paper. You are able to tune out every distraction, even those important ones like food and sleep and ride the rush until you finish the part of the project that has you motivated, again, the problem is follow though, but you learn to cope.
Believe it or not, Medical Doctors are very ignorant about most of the medications they prescribe, including psychiatrists. At this point many, if not most, psychiatrists are unaware of a new medication called Strattera(r) produced by Eli Lilly. Suprizingly enough Eli Lilly isn't putting much marketing into Strattera yet, but it's revolutionary because it's the first medication of its kind. Strattera is not a controlled substance (like Ritalin is) which implies that it's not a narcotic. The advantages are that the prescription can be refilled (unlike Ritalin which requires a new, written prescription mailed - not faxed or called - from the doctor's office), it has lower abuse potential, and it's not a form of steroid. :)
;)
No, I'm not an Eli Lilly drug rep., but I am a pharmacy technician currently studying to become a Nurse Practitioner in Psychiatry. My interest in this field is never-ending because of my continued need to help other people. Because of my current job position in the pharmacy I see a lot of patients (mainly their parents since most are under 18) which take this medication, and my curiosity gets the best of me and I ask them how the therapy is going. I have not heard to date a single person who has been unsatisfied with Strattera or has had poor results. When I ask them what grade they would give Strattera, I always get an A+.
Of course, this isn't the right solution for everyone because it only treats ADHD, not ADD. If you're diagnosed with ADHD and are taking narcotics for controlling your mood, ask your doctor/nurse about Strattera, and if they won't give it to you, find a different doctor who will. If Strattera doesn't work for you, and you were diagnosed with ADHD, I would get another psychiatrist's/psychologist's opinion on your diagnosis. This advice not only comes professionally, but personally having delt with many medical doctors, psychiatrists (see MD), and psychologists both in my work place and for my own mental disorders
Also, because Strattera is a new drug on the market and many practitioners are unfamiliar with it, do make sure that when going on or off of this medication that an appropriate and drawn out tapering schedule is setup to avoid "nasty" side-effects.
If you have questions or comments for me, I would be very happy to take them at nbetcher at kde dot org! Hope this helps someone.
Disclaimer: None of the above statements imply, suggest, or recommend disobeyance of a medical doctor's orders. Discontinuing medication can have severe side-effects or neurological complications, so don't stop taking your prescription until you've conversed with your physician about it. The statements above are also not a replacement for professional medical advice, and although my advice might be sound to you, your doctor is the one with the liability coverage
I don't AFAIK have ADHD, but if I'm working on some job which I have done a million times and is pretty mechanical; i.e. click - cut - click - paste - click - click -click - repeat - then I tend to find my attention being diverted to something else rather easily. If I'm deep in the larval stage hacking on some new program or such then I can go for hours and hours. I find that getting enough sleep and drinking coffee helps me stick to the boring jobs so that I can bang them out pretty quick, but if I'm whooped then they take forever because I keep flitting around to other things.
Clickety Click
While in no way wishing to make light of people's problems, I'd like to point out certain undeniable truths about ADHD:
1. It's a diagnosis, not a disease. As such, the underlying pathology varies from person to person, hence the ideal treatment should vary from person to person. Additionally, many people with ADHD view it as an advantage, myself included.
2. It is commonly assumed that ADHD is caused by a "chemical imbalance", yet such a thing has never been proved, nor is testing for it part of the diagnosis.
3. Taking Ritalin has much the same effect as taking speed. It is highly addictive although slightly safer.
4. Even when tested against sugar pills by the drug companies themselves, Ritalin barely outperforms. 80% of these trials are found to be unscientific because the double-blind is penetrated.
We expect the drug companies to behave better than tobacco companies yet their only incentive is to sell as many expensive drugs as possible.
At least drugs can be tested against each other. There is no independent testing of therapists and word-of-mouth referrals are rare. There is no competition and consequently, most therapists are LESS effective than sugar pills.
Caveat emptor.
when they say, "I was diagnosed with this disorder, but it is just very weak." The bipolar manic symptoms can accidentally be seens as ADHD. Also, Wellbutrin is commonly prescribes for both ADHD and bipolar, so it should help the symptoms from both disorders.
Not that I believe you.
Mine is mild, but I hated Ritalin, and never refilled the initial prescription...
I found that ritalin was great if I wanted to do something like read a man file, but aweful if I wanted to actually solve a complex problem.
The best thing for me was to start getting 40+ minutes of cardiovascular exercise at least 3 times per week, and to eat mostly vegetables. After the first 2 weeks of this regimen, it was as though everything came into much better focus, sans ritalin.
Best of luck. I recommend trying a "mostly vegetable" and lots of cardio regimen for at least 30 days before seeking any other treatment. Also, stay away from sugar and carbs.
Amazing magic tricks
Recently I was diagnosed with BADD. I am hoping that someone can help me deal with this horrible condition: Bank Account Deficit Disorder. My credit card company diagnosed me with this. I know it's not my fault and I need help. Is there a pill I can take? Does insurance cover it?
I thought geeks were more likely to be borderline Asperger's, or (rarely) autistic.
Within the fat part of the Bell curve, the characteristics for Asperger's tendencies have an inverse corrolation with ADHD.
If you want to find adult ADHDers, try an entrepreneur's club or something business related. Yep. That's right. It turns out there are studies indicating that ADHDers (as adults) are more likely to run their own businesses--and hire geeks.
As for the drugs, I think it's just a lot of crap to plump the bottom line of the drug companies. Ain't nothin ritalin does that a little discipline doesn't. Of course that's JMHO and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree...
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
after their come out of the bathroom with a bloody nose?
The result was that the biggest significant difference was that ADD people were more likely than average than the others to own their own business. Other than that, most everything else in life turned out about the same.
I was diagnosed with ADHD a 2 years ago (I'm 28 now), so I've been dealing with it rather recently....
The first thing to do is to learn as much about it as you can. A good book is Driven to Distraction by Edward Hallowell (I saw it mentioned in another post, too). Another book I liked is ADHD: Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder in Children and Adults by Paul Wender.
As for medications, I've had success with Ritalin, and, more recently, with Strattera (only approved by the FDA this past January). But the important thing to keep in mind is that the medication WILL NOT SOLVE ADHD. It is a important part of a greater whole of dealing with ADHD. The other parts of dealing with ADHD include various lifestyle changes (such as adding structure - palm pilots are great for that, regular exercise, etc.). The reason that ADHD has such a bad rep is that a lot of parents don't want to deal with their hyperactive children (and all children are hyperactive at some point), so they get some quack to diagnose them with ADHD, and then medicate them. This makes it a problem for those who legitimately have ADHD, as they are often not taken seriously.
You may want to see a therapist, too. Avoid the mistake I made, and see an ADHD specalist (I went to a general shrink at first, who knew less about ADHD than I did).
ADHD people can "hyperfocus", which is a state where you can focus on something apparently "more so" than a non-ADHD person. I put "more so" in quotes, because no individual can really compare both hyperfocus states. But since I'm a computer programmer, it has helped me program better. But it's caused a lot of other issues - adicitions that I've had to overcome (in my case, to computer games), delayed social skills (ADHD people often don't notice social cues as well as non-ADHD people), low grades in subjects I'm not interested in (inability to focus well on those subjects), impulse buying, thrill seeking, etc. Of course these are all things that many people have to deal with. But they are very common in ADHD, and were exacerbated in me because of it. I can't imagine myself without ADHD, though - I would be a completely different person....
Hope this helps!
-AB
I've got it too (Well, ADD, not the hyperactive bit). I discovered that fact by accident after reading a book on the subject and finding an alarming number of exact matching anecdotal examples of my behavior. My mother has a PhD in psychology so I bounced it off her and reviewed the symptoms and she completely agreed with me...
;)
So, back to the matter at hand. Yeah, there are lots of threads on here about how Ritalin is bogus or ADHD is overhyped. Whatever. There are a fair number of us with these symptoms, and if folks want to discount the research or the medications, that's their prerogative. Those ranters and doomsayers aren't very helpful to the rest of us.
Here's what's helpful:
50% of the solution is being able to identify the behavior in yourself. I was amazed, after the self-diagnosis, at how many times I caught myself slipping into ADD behavior. Just recognizing the symptoms and actions is huge. Try to get yourself into the habit of "auditing" yourself and determining what your behavior is at that moment. You may be shocked at how often the traits emerge. Meds (if/when you find one that works for you) just eliminate this need since they artificially keep you on a steadier keel.
Another useful tip is to use some periodic reminder to keep you on task. I have a runner's watch that I can set to beep at any recurring delay. Granted, this would be annoying at an office, but when I'm trying to get stuff accomplished around the house, having a little beep each 10 minutes is a good reminder to put down the magazine I've suddenly become engrossed in and get back to what I was originally working on. In the office, I'm sure you could use Outlook, or a screensaver, or any other of a bajillion reminder popup tools to perform the same function.
A book that I'm trying to finish (and ironically, ADD is making it hard for me to do so) is called ADD-Friendly Ways To Organize Your Life. It's not about meds or lifestyle changes. It's about simple strategies that work better for us ADD-ers at trying to keep things organized. My wife is borderline obsessive-compulsive about neatness and I'll admit right up front that the organization issue has brought us closer to divorce than anything else! The book is helping.. I'm trying to get the hang of each bit before moving on to the next.
Another thing to know about is that ADD/ADHD is often present along with other related issues, called the "Affective Spectrum. You might want to check to see if you experience any of those other disorders as well. They are finding that medication that works for one often will improve the others as well. Sometimes we stumble on one of the lesser disorders in ourselves and in the process discover a larger unidentified problem from one of the others. Googling for "affective spectrum" will turn up tons of research on the subject...
Anyway, welcome to the club. The first step is to admit to the problem. The rest gets easier after that...
In the Portland, Ore area and like card games? Check out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portlandgames/
I had ADHD, and I cured it with an hour a day of meditation -- it seriously boosted my powers of concentration. I was totally *useless* at studying, had no clue why. I just could not pay attention to anything that I was not interested, so my grades did a slow slide from a 3.3 my first semester. After 1 semester of meditating (fall of senior year), I got a 3.6 my last semester because I could finally concentrate. There were many other bonuses too. If anyone is interested, www.srf-yogananda.org is a place to start among many others.
For a quicker way, you could try biofeedback (actually neurofeedback, because you deal directly with the brain). I took a seminar in it, and it is really powerful, and many people specialize in it. Basically it teaches your brain to alter its own chemistry on demand. It is now recognized by doctors to lower the need for medication in many diseases.
There is a lot of science behind it and I was really impressed with what I found out. They have identified 5 subtypes, 2 of which are that the brainstem lets in too much/too little information to the brain. (in the first type your own thoughts distract you because there is not enough input to your brain from the senses, in the second type there is too much input from the senses, distracting you. The type I had is where the left brain is overactivated, then poops out leaving you unable to focus without massive caffeine or adrenaline. It might be worth it to check out the non-drug options, especially for the long term.
How is it diagnosed? What tests are given? What is the objective standard by which one is said to be ADHD? Because I'm just starting through this with one of my daughters, and it seems a bit fuzzy to me.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
I am sick of all these ADHD whiners. Some of us have been fucked by disorders far worse. ADHD is just a behavioral problem, giving it a nice name and a clinical diagnosis to make people feel better about being a fuck up.
Myself and my ADHD fight a lot. Usually during math class.
I find ADHD a very individual syndrome. For instance, I have a lot of energy, which is pretty typical for ADHD. On the other hand, most people with ADHD have problems finishing what they start, but I don't. I suggest reading a book on ADHD like driven to distraction and see what symptons you suffer from.
Would I get rid of my ADHD? Despite all the downsides, it also offers me an amazing amount of creativity. Perhaps one day me and it will come to an understanding.
Don't make fun of other people's disabilities.
I'm serious, this isn't a troll.
I was diagnosed with ADHD quite some time ago. I tried Ritalin for a little while, it worked but i didn't like the way it scattered me. i found dextamphetamine alot better. It would help my concentration. In school i could never concentrate because i was not interested in what i was doing. i would advise you to go off and find a career in something you like to do. This will help alot. eg if you gave me a 50 page book on history i would not get past the cover, yet i am able to sit here and read posts on /. all day long.
Thanks for the info! I'd done only sparse research in this particular area; while I had my suspicions, I hadn't made the actual connection between specific foodstuffs and ADD type neurology.
Your post goes into my 'Research Files' for further follow-up. Kudos!
-FL
After decades of struggling with ADHD, I've successfully bridled it. Here's what it took:
* Purposely putting yourself in uncomfortable situations. If the water is cold, take your shower and don't complain. Sit up straight in your chair. Talk to that person you've been avoiding in the hallways. Deal with that late bill you've been ignoring. Learn to smile when you do things that you are afraid of.
* Treat everyone with the same level respect when you interact with them. Look them in the eye, even if they are in a position of authority, or tall and leggy.
* Break away from attachments. Don't read your post over and over admiring your own intelligence. Don't stare in the mirror too long. Ignore the impulse to buy that new gadget at the store. Buy the mid-range item without the chrome plating.
* Do things that are "bad" for you. Binge drink. Take drugs. Stay up all night coding. But then stop just as soon as you started. Stay in control of your vices.
* Exercise and eat right. This is a BIG one. Do it outside if you can. Sunlight does a lot for improving your stability and mood, as does exercise. Don't eat fast food or other processed foods too often. Get lots of fiber, water, and nutrients, and less fat. Your mind is part of your body, and it doesn't function well when the rest isn't.
* Contemplate. Think about your place in the world, and where you are at. Look at yourself, and look at those around you. Try to really see yourself externally. Do you really treat those around you with the respect they deserve? Do you treat yourself with that same respect? Are you on a path that will sustain you mentally and spiritually (whatever that may mean to you)?
* Meditate. Actively try to calm your "yapper" (thanks for coining the term, Odd Todd!). The little voice in your head does a lot more trouble than good. Trust your intuition more when you act, instead of holding an internal debate before every action.
* Do what you like. If you find your true passion, you won't even have to try. If you are not doing what you like, make it your foremost goal to get there. You don't have to stay in that dead end job. This sounds cheesey, but you can do almost anything. It's only at the very top with the world-class that natural talent makes any real difference that hard work can't compensate for.
* Examine your culture. Modern technological culture is very new to man, and we haven't adjusted to it and worked out the kinks yet. I believe that ADHD and a host of other conditions are more cultural problems than anything else, so by examining your culture, you will get clues to the cause of your behavior
* Whatever works. Do what works for you. Everyone is different.
* DON'T LISTEN TO PSYCHOLOGISTS AND PHARMACUTICAL COMPANIES. They lose their source of income if you are cured. And they aren't as smart as you or they may think.
* Don't take things so seriously. Even if you don't get over what you see as your inadequacies, if you have food, shelter, and friendship, then the rest is icing.
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
First thing to know is this is a real disorder but chances are if your dignosed with it you don't have it.
This is a disorder with an insain misdignosis rate that could be improved on by using dice to consult.
Most ADA aren't dignosed most who are dignosed aren't ADA.
They look at disruptive, boared and the like. Such is more likely caused by increased intelegence (already knows the matereal) or personal problems.
They ignore the kids who just zone out or do boring repeditive motions for no apparent reason.
What to do: Watch your reaction to the medication. If it works then great but if the problems continue or get worse pull the kid off the meds pronto.
DO NOT what ever you do don't ever stick your kid on herbal cures. They only work if the kid never had ADA.
Seek expert advice on dealing with the disorder.
I am not an expert just friends with a few misdignosed people (In both directions)
But take it sereous it's a real disorder even if there are a lot of misdignosis.
I don't actually exist.
Strattera is proving to be an effective drug for adult ADHD and a good alternative to Ritalin with very few side effects. It's also the only FDA approved drug for A-ADHD. Interestingly enough I just had a conversation with my physician about this topic today. I am 50 years old and have known for years that I have a number of "classic" A-ADHD symptoms but had no interest in all the traditional psychotropics and their fairly nasty side-effects, not to mention the social stigma associated with employers/peers finding out I was using them.
I have to agree with the poster who said that meds can make the difference between keeping a professional position and ending up on the public dole or worse. I find that as I get older the depression is getting worse as well as a growing difficulty multi-tasking. It isn't noticable to my employer or collegues yet (I hope) but it is to me and my family, hence the discussion with my PCP today.
Yeah, a lot of folks find it a joke, and it's an easy one. Posting about it on slash is just asking for cheap shots from the room temps out there, but I admire the original poster's courage putting it out there as a serious question in a professional community. It didn't even enter my mind to ask the slashdot crowd about this, but as soon as I saw it I felt a lot better. I'll bet I'm not the only one.
I hope he gets to see this posting, as atomoxetine seems to be a real alternative to the traditional medications.
And no, I'm not affiliated with the drug industry in any traditional way.
"Life is not magic." Dr. Ron Weiss - "If we don't play God, who will?" Dr. James Watson
Some of the side effects of Ritalin from my point of view
Well, you've asked how I cope with ADHD, and
after living with this for years, I've found that the
best piece of advice I can give is . . . Oh, look
at these neat keys on the keyboard. The
shift key on the left looks much larger than the
one on the right. Hmm.. Oh, so what were we
talking about? Hmmm. Well, I think I'll go
back and read the article. OH, hey there are
video games on this computer...
Some people actually still find ECT useful. The second I don't know about; the third *worked*, but wasn't worth the price.
I'm not saying that they aren't necessarily right, but there are generally sources of information that have *less* interest in one direction or another. People who are researchers, not authors with books to publicize or, at the same time, pharmaceutical companies with meds to sell.
And, for that matter, said companies are usually fairly up-front about side effects, because people actually care more about lack of libido on SSRIs than the chance of tardive dyskinesia on an antipsychotic.
Now, I'm firmly of the belief that Ritalin's over-prescribed, especially with children. But I also have concerns about the fact that I can walk into my doctor's office, ask for Prozac, and he'll give it to me.
But in this case? The web page is pure scare tactics.
Of the people I've known in life who happened to recreationally abuse certain pharmaceuticals? It was never Ritalin. Of the people I've known with ADHD? None of them had trouble finding work because of the label, and only a few because of symptoms.
And then they start acting as if it's some global conspiracy or something. If Ritalin is over-prescribed, it's more the fault of the parents than the NIMH. And the manufacturer? Just trying to make money. Like every other corporation in the world. You can't fault a swan for swimming. It may not be *beneficial*, but it's not 'out to get you' or anyone else.
Even the charges that can be taken seriously--like that it sacrifices creativity and spontinaeity in favor of the ability to perform rote tasks? Makes me wonder if the author has actually held a real job anytime recently. Rote tasks are a part of the real world. The ability to do them? Quite necessary. Creativity and spontinaeity are great qualities, but less good at putting food on the table.
It's just bullshit. F-U-D. Preying on people who don't know any better.
Which is not to say that biological psychiatrists don't actually help people. I myself have gotten a lot of good use out of them. But only after wasting a lot of time on blind alleys. It's taken them a long time for them to understand that people don't fit into the neat little models and categories that medicine likes to use. Only now are they beginning to understand how much empiricism there is in their art.
Now, whatever the chemical similarities between Ritalin and caffeine (and I don't think Eric Raymond is a reliable source for anything except his own pet theories) not everybody has a a similar response to these two drugs. I myself find R helpful for controlling the symptoms of ADHD, and coffee not at all. On the other hand I get a pleasant buzz from a cup of strong coffee, but no direct change of mood from Ritalin at all. (That's very atypical -- took my psychiatrist a long time to accept that I was being honest with him.) Bottom line: every body (pun intentional) is differnt. You use what works.
so that's what? $50 US?
There's a lot of information about medications being tossed around here, so here's my $0.02, hopefully a bit better informed than some of the posts...
.. Ritalin (and derivatives, e.g. Concerta) and Adderal are popular for this. The stimulants don't really FIX the core cause (see below), but do help with a lot of the symptoms. There's nothing special about these particular stimulants, just about any will do (e.g. caffine), and indeed, a lot of ADHD sufferers self-medicate with caffine and the like. Prescription meds tend to be better, though, because they are available in sustained-release form, which means you don't have a lot of the up-and-down you'd get from trying to self-medicate with a quick-acting stimulant.
... and you may need to try several antidepressants before you find the right one for your chemistry. There's really no way to tell which antidepressant is right for you, so it's mostly trial and error. Fortunately, it's not hard to tell if an antidepressant is right for you -- They're typically either right for you, or make you rapidly miserable. It's REAL obvious when you're not on the right medication.
... very black and white. The stimulants will help you wake up, help your focus and jitteryness, and give you instant gratification. On the flip side of the coin, with the right antidepressant, you'll get up early in the morning, wide awake, and be awake for the entire day (without caffine or anything else), you'll think better (rather than just focussing better), fall asleep faster, sleep better, and generally feel much more human than just the stimulants will get you.
Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, but I've been fighting this ADHD thing for my entire adult life, and have spent a lot of time on a lot of medications and talking to a lot of doctors. My current doctor is a 20+ year ADHD specialist (who I think rocks) from whom a lot of these opinions derive -- but they are opinions and only reflect my own research and experiences, so take with a large grain of salt.
So, in the drug world, there's basically two ways to combat ADHD: Stimulants, and antidepressants.
The most 'traditional' tratment for ADHD is stimulants
The other major (and, alas, not-well-known) treatment for ADHD is antidepressants. These address the core cause of ADHD -- a chemical imbalance in the brain. Desipramine, Welbutrin, Celexa, Strattera, and about a billion other medications fall into this category. Ultimately, they all do their job by adjusting the levels of various neurochemicals and getting them back in line with what your brain needs to actually function correctly. The biggest problems with the antidepressants are that they aren't very widely understood in the medical community, and that they aren't as instant-gratification as the stimulants. With a stimulant, you'll feel better the same day you take them (and only the same day you take them). With the antidepressants, changes are slower, and you have to take the meds every day (unless you enjoy withdrawal)
There's also a lot of stigmatism against antidepressants ("happy pills") in the world, even though most is unfounded. They don't make you artificially happy, they don't stop you from being able to be sad or unhappy, they just correct the chemical balance in the brain so that things like happiness and depression behave more normally.
Antidepressants are prescribed much less than stimulants, though I don't really know why. Part of the reason is probably because ADHD is always seen as a childrens' problem, and antidepressants aren't normally prescribed to children. Another part of the reason is probably that antidepressants are poorly understood in the medical community, and often require more ongoing care than just tossing someone some insta-gratifying ritalin.
The difference between stimulants and antidepressants is
The biggest challenge with the antidepressants is finding someone that will actually treat you with them (and treat you correctly).. and they're hard to find. If you're in the SF bay, you can email me for a reference to my (ADHD specialist) doctor, but beyond that... good luck! You'll need it!
I'm in law school and already have my BS in mechanical engineering and am dealing with ADHD. A VERY effective solution I have found is the proper diet. My past diet used to consist of diet coke, junk food, and frozen dinners. Stay away from all of that. Here is what you should eat:
Raw spinach; Carrots; Strawberries; Omega-3 enriched Whole Eggs; Walnuts; Potatos; Meat such as chicken and steak; Brown Rice; Water; Cool-Aid
That's my current diet now. A lot of that is memory food, but isn't that our problem? ADHD is inhibiting our brain and thus we have problems concentrating and focusing. That food up there will get you onto the right foot. Before, my junk food diet killed my attention span. I couldn't focus, and drugs helped, but wasn't a *perfect* solution. Also, try supplements:
Multi Vitamin
Everyone should take these, but they are NOT a *REPLACEMENT* for healthy food.
B-Complex
All the B vitamins you could ever want. B vitamins help reduce stress and thus allow you to clear your mind and focus on your shit.
Ginko Biloba
An age old herb that helps your brain function more efficently and improves memory.
St. John's Wort
Again, like the B vitamins, reduces your overall stress so you can focus on more important things.
Fish Oil Capsuls
Omega-3 Fast is the most prevelant fatty tissue in the brain and the best source of it is a proper ratio of fish oil. Three tasteless capsuls a day does wonders for your concentration. Almost works as good for me as Adderal.
Chromium
Helps control your sugar levels. If you actually lay off a lot of sugar for awhile you will notice that if you have some sugar you actually do become hyperactive. Most people don't notice because they are ALWAYS LOADED UP WITH SUGAR! So, what this does is when you reduce your sugar levels to the suggest amount, and then say drink a glass of cool-aid, your levels wont spike up because the chromium is trying to stablize it.
Also, I'll touch on a few more things I have read about and other randomness.
Frozen Dinners
Stay away from them. Even healthy ones. They have some crap in them to preserve (either the flavor or the age) that severely inhibits concentration. It's commonly used in mainly all frozen products.
Sugar
Again, not good even though you think it is. Have small amounts over intervals.
Carbs v. Complex Carbs
The age old saying: don't eat white breat, eat whole grain bread. Why? Complex carbs, they act somewhat like a sugar supplement so they give you a hella lot more energy than eating normal carbs. Another good source is oatmeal.
Coffee
I found that one cup is great in the morning, but more than that is futile. I used to have like 4 cups a day, but again that serriously inhibited my concentration while I was on a junk food diet. When I switched to a healthy diet, as demonstrated above, I found had more energy, didn't need caffeen, and could still work until midnight.
Adderall XR
I've tried Concerta, ritalen, regular adderall, and finally adderall XR. Concerta doesn't work. Many doctors say this and it even led me to believe I didn't have ADHD (because it didn't work). Ritalen and adderall are basically the same, but the problem is it only works for about 2hrs and you have to take it a few times a day. The best product I've used, and which I'm currently still using, is Adderall XR. It claims it works all day, but I don't feel the effects all day. I eat dinner at about 4pm and then take it at like 5:30pm. I find it doesn't work well on a full stomach and that food after taking it almost eliminates it's effectiveness. So, from 5:30 to about 11pm I'm good to go and can really knock stuff out homework wise.
Conclusion. This reply is a serious mess but oh well. Like I said, I'm a professional student at the moment and law school is as hard as it gets. I've tried it all and found that the best combination is
1. Sleep 6hrs; and 2. A healthy diet as described above; and 3. Adderall XR
Obviously
If you "haven't really had a problem", WTF were you on Adderal in the first place?
I omitted a point I wanted to make...
Several of the folks on here used criteria of "playing games for hours" as examples to supposedly disprove ADD/ADHD. This just isn't true. It's widely accepted in the current ADD/ADHD literature of the ability of most AD[H]Ders to "hyperfocus", that is, to devote exceptional amounts of attention to a single task, usually one that interests or captivates them.
This also explains why many ADDers do better in school than expected (since one would normally expect distractive behavior to be fundamentally problematic). They are able to bring this powerful level of focus, usually onto one subject or assignment at a time and tend to score well on it. Cases where monotony sets in (long reports/theses, repetitive or unchallenging homework) tend to reflect lower grades, but the excitement of a big test can often lead to very good grades.
In short, anything that the ADDer finds challenging, even if it is of long duration (like gaming), they may be able to persist at for far longer periods of time than things that don't interest them.
Anyway, google for hyperfocus (or "hyper-focus") and ADD (or ADHD) and you'll find lots more on this particular subject.
Again, sorry for the addendum... Slashdot needs a re-edit function...
In the Portland, Ore area and like card games? Check out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portlandgames/
Suppose you're an accountant who does rows and rows of numbers every day, hour after hour, but you can't write fiction, you barely got through advanced science (physics, experientation), and you won't tolerate fantasy or imagination oriented things?
No one bugs you because you were an obedient student who didn't cause problems.
It's rediculous to call a personality type a brain disorder. It's simply that society values some traits more than others, and doesn't consider some traits(divergent thinking=creativity) as trade-offs for other traits(convergent thinking=task focus)
We need to grow up as a culture
Same here. If I could stay up for 22 and sleep for 8 then I would have zero problems. I'm just not ready to sleep after a mere 16 hours. Typically I sleep about 3 - 4 hours per night, feel like absolute crap in the morning, drag all day, and by 8pm I feel fine and am ready to stay up until 3am again. At 3am I force myself to go to bed, although I feel fine, but as soon as I am horizontal I'm out like a light.
For me, I find I have ADHD symptoms if I am tired but not if I am well rested. It is rather dramatic actually. Those rare occasions where I get a full 8 hours of snooze make me extrordinarily productive the following day. Thats a problem with technology jobs, you never become physically tired so your sleep cycle gets all messed up. When I worked labor jobs I was so physically tired that I never had much trouble making myself sleep.
Now that we are all more or less brains in a jar in front of a computer, the 24 hour cycle is just too short.
Clickety Click
The cure for everything!
I work at a small company (only 12 employees, 3 of em are my bosses), and I've found its the perfect setting for me. I work at my own desk, but share the room with one other co-worker. There's a couple of things that I've found that helps me a lot:
Work in the morning -- I get up at 6 a.m. every morning, and get there at work at 7. The other programmers don't come in usually til around 11 or so, so I get a lot of free time to myself without any distractions. It's when I get my best work done. By the time everyone else shows up, it's easier to get distracted and chat with everyone or something else. The other thing I like a lot about coming in so early, is that it's never a problem if I want to take off early in the afternoon. I leave for the day anywhere between 2p and 6p, and it's all good -- by that time, I've already put in a good chunk of working hours.
Take your meds regularly - It doesn't do any good to take your meds on your own schedule. I tried it once with one day on, one day off to see what would happen, and it really screwed me up. Half the week I was really productive, and the other half I couldn't focus as well. It left a lot of gaps. I find it's better (if I'm running low on meds, and you know how it is with getting around to get a refill) to stay regularly medicated, and then if you run out, even then the results last sometimes up to two weeks, with a slow degrade. It's better than the confusing alternative.
Don't eat chocolate -- I know that sounds obvious, but don't do anything to provoke you to be even more stimulated, nervous or excited. Cutting down on sweets makes me less jittery. I always have to be munching on something at work though, and I'd recommend fruit or something small other than Double Stuff Oreos and chocolate chip cookies.
Go for a walk -- I can't sit still, especially when a problem is bugging me. I find it's easier to take my mind off things (and relieve stress) by just wandering around a bit whenever I can't focus. There are times, though, when no matter what you do there's just no way I can get my mind back on the work at hand, and I just let it slide. I'll sit around and read Slashdot from top to bottom, but won't charge my boss for the hours wasted. Even though I'm inproductive/distracted at times, it's generally the exception, and I'm able to crank out a few days worth of work at a time that lets me catch up fine.
I've been really fortunate to have a job where the boss realizes that I phase out from time to time, but in the end I get all the work done. As a result, they sometimes have to push me when it comes to important deadlines, but I always do a good job because I can focus when I get in the mood. There's lots of pros and cons, but you just have to learn to live with them and realize your limits. Don't push yourself or you'll just stress out and break down and not be able to do much of anything.
You know I have used ritalin for over 7 years, after stopping myself on purpose I have reached over 200% better test scores. It seemes the problem was the cure and not the symptom. TRY GETTING RID OF THE MEDS!!!!!!!
I caught a bit of the Sean Hannity AM talk show today. He's rather outspoken, apparently, about the alleged overprescription of Ritalin, and how some school districts end up requiring treatment for anyone they deem "difficult".
Today he had actress Kelly Preston on the show as a guest. Of course she's not a medical expert; and in fact, she and her husband John Travolta are Scientologists, and don't believe in using psychoactive drugs of any kind under any circumstances.
Neverthless, she did have something very interesting to say. She suggested that there are quite a few things that could cause the symptomps of ADHD: food allergies, chemical sensitivities, lead poisoning, etc. etc. (For example, if you're ADHD, try going on a gluten-casein free diet for a few months and see what happens.) Her assertion was that instead of the knee-jerk rush to drugs, people ought to examine other avenues such as dietary changes first.
all night orgies with your orange powder sluts
But this time, I think Cliff made the right call. ADHD isn't something you can just go to a doctor with and be reasonably sure you'll get the right treatment. Odds are you'll end up with a doctor who doesn't understand the condition as well as they think they do. You have to educate yourself about the condition (really a cluster of symptoms) and what your options are. And that means talking to other people with the same problem.
Undiscplined thought is a problem with many people.
If your thoughts tend to race, you need more time to slow down. Do you take the time during the day to focus or practice on making only one thought in your mind?
Like learning new things, your brain can rewire itself to learn how to think in this manner, if it is too "wiley", but it takes time and practice.
Mental concentration, or drugs that alter your neural chemistry, can also affect your intelligence as well.
You may be trading the serene mind, for a duller one, restricted by drugs, with fewer thoughts for one that perhaps with proper practice could be trained to control and utlize all those distractions.
Your body is a machine, and for the most part you have greater control over it than you can possibly imagine.
I would try far eastern techniques for focusing your mind for an hour or two a day for 6 months. If this doesn't help you, then try the drugs.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
I just recently self-diagnosed but plan to get at least some form of professional opinion soon. I am trying to figure which things are bad habits, and which are ADHD, so I have at least some idea of what's not within my control.
I talked to my boss about it recently and found out he had it too, and we laughed about it. He said once he was on some meds, he would sit around, look at one thing, concentrate on it, and just laugh. He said it was so amazing to think about 1 thing for 1 block of time. He's since worked himself off medication and worked out mental and physical changes to his life that allow him to work, and work well.
I also find that I'm more creative, especially in the spontaneous sense, than others. I drift during meetings but what I do catch I can usually put together pretty quickly and come up with solutions, so I make up for what I miss. I've also told the guys I supervise about it, and worked out "systems" that allow me to get into routines, to help with the boring tasks like paperwork.
I'm OK with it. I think it allows some advantages, some disadvantages.
There is a huge separation between "pop" psychiatry and real psychiatry. If your primary care physician diagnosed you with ADHD and Rx'ed Ritalin, I'd recommend that you seek out a professional Psych and try excercise, excercise, and excercise in the meantime. If you're diagnosed by what you would consider to be a professional Psych who's spent more than 5 minutes talking to you, and prescribed Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in addition to medication, then that is your best course of action.
Ritalin and Adderal are speed. Psychobiologically that is not necessarily bad, as they can counteract imbalances in the brain that inhibit your ability to properly filter out sensory input. Technically, they are better than sedatives which achieve a similar effect, but leave you unable to function at work or life, as you're half asleep all the time. As far as addiction, if you don't need these drugs they can be addictive. If you do need them, you need them. Not addiction, but imbalance curing. Different animal, same end effect, which is long term psychiatric medication.
ADHD is rare in adults... it is believed to be on a spectrum of psychiatric disorders that peaks in late childhood and adolescence, and is a precursor to other psychiatric illnesses such as Bipolar disorder, Depression, and Schizophrenia. Unfortunately, the belief that these mental disorders "enhance" creativity is false. While all these disorders have periodic moments of greatly enhanced creativity, all the true forms of these disabilities have debilitating effects that far negate the brief periods of incredible creativity. They eliminate follow through, retention, interpersonal relationships, and teamwork. "Pop" psychiatry may bill these disorders as "slightly creative" and liveable, but the true disorders are characterized by an inability to function personally and professionally.
Bottom line is you have to trust the person making the diagnosis, something compounded by the fact that the disorder itself can impede on your ability to make this judgement. You need to look to your support network of friends and family to help you determine if you are impaired in your attention to be able to function to your abilities. And you and they need to recognize that there is a distinction between "excesses of personality" and "psychiatric disorder".
My brother was diagnosed with the hyperactivity type. I have the inattention type but was never diagnosed. I was always labelled as smart but lazy and one who usually didn't finish things.
I get very bored very quickly. I need to be on the move all the time. Even an hour of "Oh, there's not really much to do" and I pretty much blow my whole day doing next to nothing. This has been a problem for me since high-school and the college I never completed as well as certification classes I also never completed.
I just want to echo what some others have said here. Exercising regularly seems to help. Keeps my mind more open and steadily flowing. Caffiene doesn't seem to help me--just makes my mind race and I can't concentrate on anything.
Organization is extremely difficult, but when on the bandwagon, results are excellent. I have a Sony Clie and it helps greatly to always have "pen and paper" with you at all times. Write down lists when you have 3 or more things to remember. I find I do remember more when I have it entered in my pilot. I highly recommend one for anyone struggling with this. You have to force yourself to use it and to carry it with you ALL THE TIME. I can only seem to remember I have 4 things with me, phone, keys, Palm Pilot and wallet. If I have those things, I know I'm ready to go. My office is always a disaster, but I can generally find things, so I don't do anything about it.
Also, double and triple check your work. I very frequently just from the first step in a project, skip some or all of the middle steps, and then do the last step and call it good. Use a checklist and check off each step as you go so you know what's done and what's left.
On the up side, when you are in the right situation and you're clicking with what's going on, it's like you're a machine. You just can't stop working on something or thinking about it. I get lots of ideas for things and somehow remember the weirdest little details. My wife always asks "How can you remember the little joke I told you a month ago but you can't remember 3 things to get at the store?" I don't know if it's selective memory or just that the events I remember stimulated an emotional response or what, but it definately happens. Just keep on going with the good things and do your best to stay motivated and organized with everything else.
Is there a support group for computer professionals with these problems? There should be!
-m
http://www.invisik.com
it seems that a combination of ritalin and operant therapy has been the most successful. But rather than sending you to a clinical psychologist, I'd just suggest that you find a job where the act of working is rewarding to you.
heck, that's what we're all trying to do...
Fight or flight its all the same
Live to die another day
--Ryan
or what your kids eat.
I read a book a while back, Diet for a Poisoned Planet, which at the end talked about additives, preservatives and pesticides, and their effects on children.
An adult eating a few pieces of licorice can handle the Red Dye #4, and all the chemicals. A child can't, and they often manifest in behavioral problems (the back of the book listed the studies, but the book is packed away somewhere). Same with fruits and vegetables sprayed with pesicides.
If my child was diagnosed with attention deficit disorder, I'd try a lifestyle change first. My wife and I are going to make a real effort to keep sugar, white flour, pesticides and preservatives away from our children (first one is scheduled to arrive in 2 months).
--I've also observed that people of a selfish nature are quite naturally predisposed to using any excuse close at hand which will get them out of being responsible, non-selfish idiots. A 'disease' is a perfect excuse, because it plays on the guilt chord which the rest of (real) humanity is strung with. Your asshole room mate is missing this string; the best he can do is act as though he has one. I'm not kidding. We're talking about a different kind of life form here. I've heard it said that sociopaths are the ones which are broken; when properly tuned, they are much, much harder to detect because they know how to act and play on guilt and forgiveness in others to endless degrees without ever going too far. --Psycopaths are the very broken ones; and they still get away with murder! (There's one at the helm of the US right now, for example).
I'd turf your asshole room mate ASAP because he'll NEVER get any better. They just get older. He'll continue to drain you until you get away from him, so do it now. --And don't let him guilt you; animals like him don't have properly formed consciences of their own, so you don't have to worry about hurting him.
Good luck!
-FL
I had ADD as a kid, while my sister has ADHD to this day. I took ritalin from as young as I can remember until I was 12 (I'm 29 now, so I was on ritalin before it was 'cool'), then cylert and tofranil until I was 16, then cylert alone until I was 19. Once I hit college, I just weaned myself off of cylert over the course of three weeks (on my own, without doctors' advice..).
Once I hit sixteen, I realized I needed to start taking steps to bring things under control myself, rather than depend upon medication for the rest of my life. I started consciously working to focus my mind, admittedly no small feet. These days, I think I overcompensated, as I have the ability to, when I need to, focus solely on one task, blocking out the need to eat, smoke, and even move, in some cases. Even though heart rate is controlled through the autonomic nervous system, with a bit of focus, I can slow my heart rate down to approx 45 bpm, even able to go down to 1 beat every 2 seconds in the extreme case.
Personally, I don't know that ADD/ADHD really exist. I think it's kind of like saying that people with fair skin have problems with the sun. No kidding. Some minds are more frenetic than others, just as some folks' skin is lighter than others'. People with fair skin can spend time in the sun with either sunblock (drugs) or gradually building up a base tan and letting the melanin do its thing (mental control and focus).
Learning how to harness and control the power of that frenetic mind has probably had the single most profound effect on my life of anything I've ever done. In my career as a developer, it's been invaluable for marathon coding stretches. It's also helped professionally in that there can be many thought patterns whirling around at any given time, allowing for efficient multi-tasking. I've consistently surprised my co-workers with my ability to be deep in thought working on something, while simultaneously being able to hear conversations and chime in with cogent commentary. In my personal life, it's been useful for being able to learn things, simultaneously taking in new concepts and referring to old ones to create a mental framework for how things "work" together.
Best advice is to learn how to harness it and use it to your advantage. You may need medication while you're in that process, but once you're done, they may not be necessary anymore.
The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
16% of all American schoolkids are currently being drugged for ADHD.
Approximately 2% of all American schoolkids actually have ADHD.
Drugs!= viable substitute for good parenting?
(I'm not talking to you, of course. There's no way that you could be one of those lazy parents, right?)
And don't forget the latest craze, er, fad, er, diagnosis...ODD(Oppositional Defiance Disorder) Does your child act willful and disagreeable? Drug that kid!
[irony]Meanwhile, just say no, kids.[/irony]
werd to that! I do the same, A's in my CS classes B+ in semi-interesting classes, and C's in the boring ones...
I'm diagnosed with ADD, which is ADHD without the hyperactivity. I have extreme difficulty focusing, to the point where my neuropsych thinks I have a learning disability. I used to take Ritalin, and it's helps a little, but I have an tendency for addiction, and decided it wasn't worth the risk.
ADD is most definitely a hindrance for me. The only upside to it is that it keeps my interests so diverse. I have a million hobbies, it seems like. But my focus is so poor that I can't really reach expert level at anything.
I play guitar, and have been for over a decade, but I can't force myself to practice for more than 10 minutes at a time.
When I get on the internet, intent on studying up on whatever my hobby is for the minute, the slightest distraction will throw me of course. Half the time I can't even remember what the hell I got on the computer for in the first place.
School is a joke. I barely graduated high school, and I've got 6 credit hours after 4 years of off and on college education. I do very well in courses that are completely alien to me, but I bomb out of classes that are review because there is just nothing to hold my interest.
I know I'm smart, and it pisses me off that I come across as a total idiot sometimes. I'm just hoping that I'll find a solution for myself so I can get my life on track.
ADD is not just an excuse for psychiatrists to give kids presciptions for ritalin. It's a real disease, although probably a very over-diagnosed one.
Dazed and Confused
LT
After suffering with ADHD for most of my life, and spending about half of it on Ritalin or Concerta, one important aspect of dealing with ADHD is to find employment that complements your distractability. Avoid jobs that have a high degree of monotony, such as assembly line jobs, jobs in call centers, security, data entry and so on, but you don't have to be told that these jobs tend to suck. Totally unstructured work environments, such as some outside sales jobs can provide too much temptation to goof off rather than focus on the job at hand. Jobs that require constant attention to detail, or require intricate planning abilities, such as being an architect can be problematic as well.
So, what does this leave?
Look for a job that provides a fast and varied workload, and gives you the opportunity to creatively solve a wide variety of problems and to think on your feet. Technical support, field service, traffic management, or restaurant management can be a good choice. Every day these people are confronted with dozens of miniature crises that need to be dealt with efficiently. The good thing about these kinds of jobs is that once you fix one problem, you get to move on to the next thing, rather than process yet another 1,000 pieces of mail before lunch, and another 2000 after lunch.
No job is perfect, they all have a certain amount of drudgery, whether it be filling out service reports, cleaning filters, or ordering parts. One way to reduce the onerousness of that part of the job is figure out ways to reduce the burden, or to make the "paperwork" part of the job more relevant by figuring ways to reduce redundant information, while providing information that can actually be of use to management. It always apalls me how many forms are poorly designed, or how often you have to provide the same information to the same group of people on 3 or more different forms, when one good one would do, for instance. If the job becomes more about the paperwork than the real work that you do, it is time to start looking for another job.
My Fiance was diagnosed with ADD / ADHD a few years ago. Instead of eating pills, she opted to change her diet, engage in regular physical activity, and practice relaxation techniques (meditation, massage, etc..) on a reasonably regular basis. Not only has it helped her deal with her disorder, but it's made her a much happier and healthier person all around.
Right before I graduated HS back in 97 but Physics professor asked me how I managed to get through his class so well with ADHD. He told me that he had documentation that followed me all the way back to elementary school stating that I had ADHD. That was a surprise to me. I had never been tested, nor approached about having it.
I read a couple of post stating that ADHD is basically crap. I have since been following the media coverage and arious articles about it. I must say that I too think its a hoax.
Kids are like big dogs. If you try and keep them couped up inside all day, following directions, when you turn your back they are gonna go wild. I also think it has to do with the amount of stimulants kids get these days. 20 years ago, vending machines would not be found in schools. Not to mention the failure of most classes to stimulate a mind. School bored me to death. If it weren't for the women I probably would have dropped out. God knows the booty got me through college.
I think ADHD is a societal cope out to medicate creative, over-stimulated, bored people.
Looks like it is time to replace your Personality Module. You are a bit to clingy, guess I better replace your fuser to
The taxonomy of mental illnesses is a farce at worst and guesswork at best. The understanding of the underlying mechanisms of psychopharmacology is rudimentary, and generally consists of a "let's throw this at it and see what happens" strategy. It works in some? Fuck the possible long term effects!!!
1. Market
2. Sell
3. Profit.
When I was a kid, we couldn't get doctors to prescribe medications for our various unhappinesses, so we guessed and bought on the black market. We were called drug users, and we were felons. That was wrong, but this isn't any better.
grammar-lesson free since 1999. (rescinded - 2005)
Well, I guess I should assume you're not talking about the usual half-assed laypeople. (The teacher who tells the parent, "Johny acts up in class -- I think he has ADD.") But I'd even be cautious about accepting this diagnosis from family doctors or pediatricians. Legally, they can diagnosis and treat ADD, but really, you need to talk to somebody who's made a full-time study of it.
Ideally, I wouldn't even rely on a diagnosis from a biopsychiatrist, even though that's the specialist you'll end up with for actual treatment (usually). Their diagnostic models are too simplistic. Ideally, you should go to a neuropsychologist and spend a day or two getting your mental functions thoroughly examined.
But that's way beyond the financial reach of almost everybody. So you talk to a biopsychiatrist -- and accept his or her opinions sceptically.
All my life I thought I was just lazy, and that's why I never did my homework. I tested as extremely smart after all, so why else didn't I ever get it done? Flunked out of State college. Just weak & lazy. My parents were kind & supportive, but I knew what my problem was.
Funny though, that as a grownup without any sort of college degree I had lots of crappy jobs. Often I had two jobs at once to make ends meet. For years, I'd work full-time at my stupid job, and then go to my other stupid job. It didn't bother me much. It was what I had to do.
When I read Driven to Distraction, it occured to me that maybe I wasn't lazy, and that there were lots of other ADD traits that were familiar.
Once I started to keep the idea of ADD in mind, and at least intermittently take my medicine, my life improved vastly.
I'm still a little skeptical in many cases because it seems awfully easy, and I certainly hate to see little kids on powerful drugs.
To address your analogy: There are people who can't hit a baseball worth a damn.They can practice, but they won't ever be good at it.
P.S. Everybody who has a general moral objection to psychiatric drugs can just go to hell. While there, read Mark Vonnegut's _Eden Express_.
Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
I would strongly suggest looking at dietary issues as well. Get some testing for allergies and intolerances.
Avoid sugar and artificial sweetners. Replace with fruit sugar (fructose) which is a more complex compound and takes longer to break down.
There's quite a bit of information out there, take some time to investigate it. Don't believe people who say "here's a magic bullet that will fix everyone".
My wife works in the Autism & Aspergers field (which touches on ADHD and ADD) and whilst medication helps some children, diet is also a very important issue there.
The big enemy of the somebody with ADHD -- indeed with any biopsychiatric condition -- is absolute statements like the one you just gave us. No treatment works for everybody. I myself spent years evolving a complicated treatment that involves multiple therapies -- one of which is a twice-daily dose of ritalin.
For a long time, I really sucked in school. Never did homework, didn't pay attention in class, couldn't take tests. I got bad grades, and I just didn't get school. It was terrible. My parents didn't buy into the whole ADD thing, though, nor do I, really, I'm just curious, so my mind wanders as I wonder about the world around me. Then, as a junior, I started studying Goju Karate at school, and after the quarter ended, went to another dojo of the same style. Almost immediately, my grades improved; I had learned to focus. Then, I moved to another state. After a year or so of fighting with my girlfriend, I sunk back into depression and laziness. I just moved back, and I'm trying to get back to my old focus...
I'm a 16 year old and I have ADHD (without the hyperactivity though). So basically stare out at the windows and day dream, or maybe I just go blank in space. Although this is a disadvantage at school, I do the best possible by sitting WAY in the front of my classrooms. I also let my teachers know my situation. Therefore when they see me going off they woulld maybe gesture to me or walkby a put a hand on my desk for a silent signal.
In school I'm one of the few people who makes the best multimedia presentations for school projects. I usually make incredibly creative webpages, bring my laptop the next day, and put it on a projector for the class to enjoy. It seemed to me that people with ADHD (or ADD), works much better when they have multimedia support, that means images, videos, audio, etc. Usually plain text gets me nowhere. I'd say that ADHD didn't effect my technical adversaries at all. In fact I think they're really creative.
I attend the San Francisco School of the Arts. I major in Piano. Piano is one of the hardest subjects to study for me. Sitting down at the same place and practicing for an hour or two daily, is not an easy thing to do because it requires so much attention and concentration. So what I do is I only practice at the first 15 minutes of each session, then go do something else, then repeat the same procedure. This way I can ensure that I'm getting the most out of each session. After 15 minutes I usaully begin to focus significantly less.
IMO, ADHD (without the hyperactivity) helped me in the arts. It has helped me develop a very passive and dreamy personality. I feel that this kind of personality plays a big role in studying the arts (Piano, in this case). ADHD has also helped me develop a creative mind for making webpages, multimedia presentations, and whatnot. Teachers and the principal have always enjoyed my web presentations, and the principal have decided that I can take over the school's website starting next year, with a few assistants.
For medicine, I have been taking both of these seperately:
*Dexedrine 10mg
*Dextroamphetamine 5mg
Initially, for the 5mg tablet, I've experienced some mood changes. I could feel the "ups" and "downs" quite significantly. When the medicine wore off I would suddenly more relaxed and in a more cheery mood. For the 10mg tablet, it made me even more sleepy at times, but it generally gave me a longer, more expanded time for focusing, at the scrafice of a direct focus (which is what the 5mg tablet does). I've talked with my doctor and since 3 months ago I've been taking the 10mg in the morning, and the 5mg afternoon, for my arts. (We have academics in the morning, and the arts during the afternoon). This has worked quite well.
But now here's the interesting part: My parents and I have decided to give a try at acupuncture. We believe that blood-flow plays a vital role in giving attention and concentration. Acupuncture can make sure the important parts of my body are well stimlated, and hopefully blood will travel through my body and into my brain more regularly.
Also I've found that doing excercise really helps the concentration. Aside from the fact that it pumps out adreneline, it puts your mind off to your physical activities for a change. When your mind is done with controlling your blood flood and so on, it's then completely ready to switch back to working anything mentally (especially something that needs sustained focus, like practicing piano, coding, etc.)
Well that's it for now. Just my two pesos.
Anthony
http://www.palmzone.net
There is more than one effective medication, and many Doctors will have you try one for 6 months, monitor it effectiveness then try another if it is not working. Many people try going off their medication once a year, especially if young, as many people gain enough self-control and good habits while medicated that they can concentrate enough to make do without the medication. A period of minimum stress should be chosen when going off the meds, in consulation with your Doctor. The most common medication are in fact stimulants, and common side affects are: loss of appetite, trouble sleeping, bad dreams, and in cases of too high dosages extreme emotional periods, and other nasty mental problems. If the stimulants don't work there also some anti-depressants that sometimes work.
There any many good web sites, books, videos (check your local libray) for information on ADHD. Beware of web sites that are dogmatically against drugs. While I believe it is very possible that some of these drugs are over prescribed, they certainly can help some people.
I have personal experience with ADHD. Ritalin was tried first, but it was not effective and the side affects were unbearable. Dexedrine was tried next and it works well in this case. It does a brutally good job of appetite suppressing, but it has made a huge difference in school work. What was a constant battle to pay attention (being too hyper wasn't really a problem, just could not pay attention to anything, unles VERY interested in it for more than a few minutes) is now just normal "paying attention". School is no longer a miserable, frustrating ordeal. Marks are way up, and the child is much happier. As there was no real problem at home(getting one on one attention from parent keeps things on track) the meds are only used during school. No meds are used on vacations, summer, evenings, or weekends. We do try not using the meds each November, but so far it hasn't quite worked out.
Some people claim changes in diet, extra atention, and some lessons on good habits can overcome ADHD without meds. There are many good habits, procedures, and tactics that can be taught to ADHD people to help them overcome their affliction, but the drugs do work very well for many people.
Don't be too quick to go to drugs. Many kids go through bad periods, so wait at least a year before seeing a Doctor.
Anarchists never rule
Well, I've spent years working with children with severe and real ADHD problems, often mixed with other physical and mental handicaps.
I have only ever seen one approach result in a significant improvement in their quelity of life, and that is occupational therapy.
There is no drug out there that 'treats' ADHD, they all just mask it, which gives the brain no reason to learn its way to an improvement, the drugs are the worst enemy of an ADHD sufferer who actually wants to get better.
A seriously approached treatment program with a qualified and knowledgable occupational therapist can make a LARGE difference in even severe cases of ADHD, I've seen it - and I'm not talking about your average cases here but the type that land you up in perminent special care and are often linked to other physical and mental handicaps.
ADHD, like many brain dysfunctions, can be 'learned' out with enough work - maybe not totally, but often to a level that makes it very manageable.
- Keep a rigid schedule. The less you make optional, the less room for impulse.
- Lots of exercise.
- Sex. No, I'm not joking (although I already mentioned exercise.)
- Those fatty acids won't hurt, although they may not do much.
- In general, anything that makes you healthier helps.
- Lots of organizational aids. A weekly pillbox, for instance. PDAs are lifesavers. Whiteboards are my favorite.
- Sunshine. Seriously. See exercise.
- Get enough sleep. If you're not waking up before the alarm goes off, go to bed earlier. No exceptions.
There are bunches more. alt.support.attn-deficit has an even lower S/N ration thanLacking <sarcasm> tags,
This is the misnomer. ADD/HD is misnamed.
... and ... Directed Focus Deficit and Bouncing off the Walls ;-)
ADD folks have no lack of "focus" persee. They have an inability to DIRECT one's focus. It's really hard for lay persons to buy because your average ADD can play a video game for 12 hours straight stopping only for caffiene and bathroom breaks.
It really should be called: Directed Focus Deficit
Regarding the caffiene, don't do it. It has a nice kick but quickly drags you down.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
I have ADD and I've found that the crux of the problem to be:
:-)...
... I even rely on it. I KNOW I can work 16 hours a day before a dead line AND come up with
____You CANNOT do one thing at a time.____
The corollary would be:
___You HAVE to do more than one thing at a time to get EITHER finished.___
Its weird but it IS the truth.
What that translates to is having more than one project at a time. And here "project" stands for any activity.
I play more than one sport as playing only one bores the hell out of me... I always work on two or more projects at a time at work....
Now you have to allow for the time that it will take for both projects to be finished. And that is where things get tricky. You have to prioritise between projects, as to which one gets more time but you still have to switch between them often enough to keep your interest.
Its basically an optimization problem and is actually fun to solve.
If you really understand it and work WITH it, instead of against it, ADD can be a very powerful "talent/skill".
But the process to getting to this stage is tough... it involves:
1. Denial (when you first find out)
2. Relief (you realise that your not entirely useless...)
3. Fear (realise its going to be with you for the rest of your life.....)
4. Anger/Resentment ( you cant do anything to cure ADD )
5. Knowing that most advice given w.r.t careers, work routines, motivation will not apply to you...
But after all that and through trial and error you do have the ability to use this to your advantage. To do this its VERY important to see its advantages not its disadvantages... (As with anything in life
Nowadays
a creative solution even after the lack of sleep.
Guys without ADD use the fact that they can concentrate on one thing at a time to stay in a good job. You have to figure out how concentrating on more than one thing at a time can be useful in your job and in your life.
Best of luck.
Thus far, having tried ritalin, wellbutrin, and another drug which I forget the name... All with minor to severe side effects I have decided to try an "herbal" remedy consisting of flax-seed oil, fish oil, and vitamin E. This has proven most successful. I have been on the particular remedy for about 7 months and have noticed a signifigant adjustment in my tenure with projects and concentration with office work settings. In short, I can stay focused on something I'm not deeply enthralled with... which seems to have been my hurdle my entire life with ADHD T2.
-Jason
Right now, im supposed to be doing a 15-page report (that i shouldve started 5 hours ago) taht is due tommorow. its 1 in the morning. and what am i doing? reading slashdot. before that, forums.xbox.com. before that, gamespy.com, before that, xbox.ign.com, before that, gamesindustry.biz, before that, talking to people on MSN, before that...... well; you get the idea... all ive written so far on my page is: "Summative Task â" Chemistry"
Newsie, Moderator, www.tauniverse.com
So, because you managed to find something that works for you, everyone else who's been diagnosed with ADHD is somehow a malingerer or a weakling? How wonderful it must be for you, having the psychic powers you surely possess: afterall, you can see into the minds of others to determine the reality or otherwise of their predicaments!
Here's a news-flash for you and others like you - your personal experiences do not make you a medical authority of any sort. It is the height of presumption for you to dismiss out of hand other people's plight based on your sample of 1, and if you don't think you have a problem, you can at least spare those who do the irritation of having to deal with the consequences of the ignorance spread by fools like yourself.
Just like "Seasonal Affective Disorder", "Postpartum Depression", etc.
/. crowd can be so informed about the RIAA manufacturing lost sales numbers, and the BSA manufacturing piracy impact numbers, while wholeheartedly buying the bullshit that is shoveled out by the APA( American Psychological Association )and their cohorts in the pharmaceutical industry. We are talking billions of dollars in drug revenue and prescription kickbacks.
The pharmaceutical manufacturers and professional psychologists absolutely LOVE it when normal behavior or personalities slightly different from the mean are identified as "disorders".
Tracking the drug stock indexes along with the timeline of "discovery" of these sudden, new "disorders" is actually quite instructive.
I don't understand how the
As for those who have convinced themselves that their preference to apathy actually has a convenient excuse - you'd do better to stop making the rest of the insured subsidize your APA-sanctioned excuses.
In short, I have found that religion tends to balance out ones lifestyle, which in turn improves the general quality of life, physically and mentally.
I have found that in smaller schools there is more attention payed to individual students. If you didn't graudate from RIT, you might consider smaller schools, Juniata College (Huntingdon, PA), Westminster College (New Wilmington, PA), Unity College (Unity, ME) just to name a few.
I am not going to tell you that these schools don't have boring classes, they are schools featuring a liberal arts education - however, one should realize that they need to know more of fields other than one's own. Besides, it makes great party trivia. Quite frankly, right now, my major makes great party triva.
PS: Please pardon the misspellings.
You might want to do some research on ADHD, alot of very prominent Dr's and Psychologists think it's a bunch of crap. I don't think it's total crap but I think it's way over diagnosed. "Wow you've got a lot of energy, want some drugs to take care of that?"
Has no one here watched Southpark? You konw what that Ritalin crap does to people. C'mon!
I am being sincere when I say that I have much respect for everyone here. I am not suggesting that the "condition" of ADD or ADHD, OCD, RAD and all the other "diseases" and "disorders" do not exist. The circumstances that these conditions describe do obviously exist. However, I take offense to the industry that has cropped up to take advantage of people who are troubled, and promote this ideal that there is some sort of solution that more often than not, involves the medical/theraputical/pharmacological equivalent of a get-rich-quick scheme.
What we are talking about, in essence, with the exception of extreme cases where people have very serious, identifiable physical handicaps, is a burgeoning new industry which revolves around the selling of drugs to alter peoples' personalities, and usually to just make them non-uppity so they fall into line like everyone else and don't make waves.
Take RAD for instance: Reactive Attachment Disorder. A psychological "condition" where people who have come from backgrounds of trauma, abuse or abandonment have trouble getting close to others. The same thing for ADD. It's a behavioral anomoly, but it's only really an anomoly by comparison to what is considered a social norm, so it's arguable as to whether or not anyone is ultimately "afflicted" or they're merely guilty of being different from those around them.
Do these issues need to be treated? Sure. But the way in which they are being treated, especially with drugs, for most people, exacerbates the condition and makes it worse.
The end result is that society pushes people who are different into little categories in order to explain why they are disappointing, unproductive, unusual, etc. Rather than taking some time to understand a person, let's just call him ADD and pop a pill in his mouth. What kind of goddam treatment is that?
Regarding ADD and its various spin-offs, I'd bet good money you can find a solid correllation between people diagnosed with ADD and being put on medication and: 1. Crappy, self-absorbed parents who would rather give their kid a pill or send him to a psychologist than actually sit down with him and take some time to understand his issues; 2. People who grew up with a very low amount of physical activity during formative developmental periods, and 3. children who were weaned on excessive amounts of television, video games and other forms of hyperactive sensory bombardment.
Especially regarding ADD. Who the fuck isn't going to have a short attention span when they spend X hours a day watching television or playing games, which nowadays are so amazingly explosive, redundant and senationalized in their presentation of information, it's obvious the media has the capacity to desensitize people to the many non-obnoxious nuances of communication.... THIS is the source of ADD.
I read an article the other day from a psychology publication that stated that people nowadays are so bombarded with redundant soundbytes of information, it now takes 6-7 transmissions of the same advertising message to "stick" in a person's head. And every day it gets worse.
Put down the controller. Pull out the GTA cartridge, get off your ass and go out and ride your skateboard... Get physically active; lay off caffeine; make an effort to alter your normal behavior via normal means! Stop going from high speed to sedating yourself before you go to sleep. Before we had mass-obnoxious-neuron-sucking media, humans got along well and had plenty to do. Our technology is turning newer generations into epileptic zombies.
Our brains are incredibly powerful instruments. They get used to things; chemicals we put in our bodies; stimuli we are exposed to. If you sit there for hours a day being bombarded with little soundbytes, then unless your boss is wearing a flat panel LCD screen around his neck with the NASDAQ scrolling off it, and flailing dramatically as he talks, you're probably somewhat board with the dullness of the interaction.
Who's fault is that? The
I'm a 38yo Systems Analyst and was diagnosed about 2 years ago. ADD without Hyperactivity. Primary Inattentive Type. Creative, ingenious, innovative, disorganized, highly distracted, no sense of time scale. Working in groups hasn't been a problem, though I have 'disclosed' the ADD to select team members. The jury is still out on this though, especially on whether you tell your boss or not. I told mine, but I'm not sure it was the best move. Stigma is a crazy thing. My work situation has changed; mainly in that I'm trying not to rely on the old tricks and cover-ups, and I'm trying to apply some of that easy-to-spout advice that is in no short supply. Right now, it's tough, but I feel more successful. I'm trying to steer myself into work tasks that fit my strengths. It's still touch and go. I haven't tried any supplements or natural treatments. I just haven't had time to read up on any supporting evidence. Advice: 1) Keep your skeptic's hat on when reading ads, 'professional' journals, books touting solutions, and anything else ADD-related in the media. Research their sources and funding. There's a ton of money being spent by pharmaceutical companies, people with axes to grind, and well-meaning people. No, I'm not suggesting ADD is bunk; it is very real. You just have to sift through a lot of noise to find credible, helpful information. 2) As another poster suggested: if you're not self-employed, read up on FMLA to protect your legal rights in the workplace. 3) If things are continually tough with organizing, lack of focus, hyper-focus, and such, then consider hiring a Coach. It's hard to find a good match and they can be expensive; but the good ones are worth it. Someone who's really good at teaching organization skills is not necessarily a good ADD coach. ________________________________________________ Recommended Web Sites: _ADDitude Magazine_ http://www.additudemag.com/ -- A relatively new magazine, good balance between Adults / Kids info. Some of their stuff is right on target. Other articles are too dumb'ed down. Still, the subscription is worth the price. _Attention Deficit Disorder Association_ http://add.org/ "...disorder association? Huh?" A great site with lots of info. _C.H.A.D.D. - Children and Adults with Attention Deficit Disorder_ http://www.chadd.org/ Another reputable organization and advocacy group. The focus is still more toward children and parents-of. Adult info seems to be growing. _My 2 cents worth_ It's definitely a real condition; but you already knew that. I remember the first time I took my Rx of Adderall; it was like "Flowers for Algernon"... My mind's gyroscope kicked in and I was finally able to listen to conversation without my mind spinning off in a different direction every other word. I can read a paragraph just once now, rather than 20 times while zoned. The beneficial effects, as the story goes, didn't last. The "normal" pills lasted about a week gradually fading, until I was back in "everywhere". A modification (up) in my Rx has been beneficial, but its still only about 50% better than none at all. Good luck!
We're home-free! Nothing can go wrong now.
David Keirsey, the well known psychologist, believes that ADHD is just an excuse to sell drugs and to dumb-down kids who are bored with school.
My brother and I both have ADHD-like symptoms from time to time. No drugs here, and somehow we're both capable of surviving. Television has done a lot to reduce the attention span of just about everyone these days. What can you do?
Tim
Seriously, line by line, I thought I had written your post. I'd quote what part I was talking about, but I'd be quoting the whole thing (except for the caffeine part, you'll pry my Mountain Dew from my cold dead hands). Is what you have ADHD? How do you know? Were you diagnosed? Whatever you have, that's what I have. More importantly, if coping with it means losing that creative edge, is it really worth it, or should I just deal? I kinda like my quirks, consequences and all. I feel more in tune to the things I care about, while the things I don't care about, I just don't care.
Waiting for ad.doubleclick.net...
I have it and I find that it just makes it hard to finnish anything. Combine that with a little dislexia (bad speller too) and lack of money and you'll find that you never NEVER finnish anythi..
Games give some relief from the bordom...BZFlag here I come....
human
I don't want a pickle; I just want a Motor-Cycle! A four foot cop arrived with a five foot gun!
On the same lines, is it possible that the incredible amounts of caffeine ingested by American society might also be a contributing factor in the uprise of ADD/ADHD? It just seems like a possiblity to me.
For your information, I have a very imaginative mind, a big time roleplayer, and I have many of the above symptom. Did it plague me during my school ? No. On the contrary it helped me search different solutions than everyone's on many problem, my mind "working" in parallel or quick succession on many solution. It help me also find many solution on software problem. I am very good at math , physik and am preparing my doctor work in physic. And those "symptom" I had a really early age. I am very happy with my distracted mind.
Now comes the question, what the hell would have happenned with me if my parents had CUT DOWN my distractiveness and imagination with a drug ? I can't help but shiver incontrollably.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I know many people that get significant results with chiropractic. No, I do not mean the backpain treating pseudomedics, I mean real chiropractors.
I hope you find someone near home.
Just for the record, no I am not a chiropractor.
I find that it is bennificial to troubleshooting network issues and program problems... I enjoy the feeling of thinking of 12,000 things at one time. I don't take any drugs, and never have wanted to. Sadly my organizational skills are hindered dramatically. I also can't expand on this issue anymore because I have to go do something else.
- what is the definition of simultanagnosia?! I've been meaning to look it up!
Or maybe it's just the excuse my parents wanted to hear for my bad behavior in school. Anyways, I've taken Ritalin and found that the speed effect was too much for me. I couldn't go to sleep, I was constantly aware of my heart beating, I was sweating, and finally I began to abuse it in small amounts (nothing big, just did it once or twice) to stay up late and finish work.
Whether or not it helped me is arguable, when on Ritalin I felt as if I could concenrate well, but things seemed distant, I felt I was inside myself and the subject I was supposed to be concentrating on.
The funny thing is I have an incredible ability to concentrate on tests and recieve high marks on them. I think the whole diagnosis of me having ADD is wrong, it is more or less laziness.
What is it with idiots like you, and why do so many other idiots feel the need to mod you up? Are you driven by some compulsion to denigrate the parenting skills of others?
The Washington Times (owned by the founder of the Unification Church) and ADHDFraud are hardly unbiased sources, and for every David Neeleman you quote, psychiatrists can tell you of several hundred anonymous failures of whom you are unaware, whose biggest failing in life was never to have had the chance to receive the sort of treatment that is now widely available.
There's a certain delusion out there that seems to be widespread, which goes like this: ADHD is treated with drugs, drugs are "unnatural" and therefore bad, so any parent whose child is receiving treatment for ADHD is somehow negligent. But this is simply rubbish, as many "natural" things are extremely bad, while some "unnatural" things are very helpful. Faeces is "natural", but would you want some near you? Smallpox is natural, as is Polio, or skin cancer for that matter. On the other hand, Aspirin and soap are man-made and "unnatural", but you wouldn't willingly give either up, would you?
Parents with children who have ADHD already have enough to handle, without having busybodies and know-it-alls like you lecturing them for their supposed failings. Do you suppose that any sane parent would willingly see his or her child diagnosed with such an affliction and subjected to medication? What do you know of what it must be like to live with the consequences of such a problem? You wouldn't presume to tell the parents of an autistic or retarded child to just "get over it", but you feel yourself qualified to do the same with ADHD? Why is that? Is it because ADHD is actually treatable, while those afflictions aren't?
Caffeine is a pretty darned useful drug, and while you are sort of correct in some of what you say regarding it, your puritanical assertions are silly and somewhat juvenile, (as are most puritanical assertions).
The last time I used Caffeine was on a three day drive where I'd been unable to get more than a couple of hours sleep for several nights in a row. The vehicle was rented for a set period of time and needed to be returned come hell or high water. A "Good night's sleep and decent day planning" would simply not have cut it. Coffee kept me on schedule and on the road safely.
Further, while Caffeine may not enhance concentration, stopping one from drifting off to sleep certainly maintains concentration. And guess what? Nobody is asking for more than that when they drink coffee. --And when you are traveling down the road at highway speeds, maintaining concentration is exactly what the doctor ordered. --Except you don't need a doctor to order it.
Now, granted, it is certainly possible to abuse and over-use coffee, as it is possible with any drug. I like to only use it now and again, because that way it works much more powerfully with a smaller amount. Plus, it feels more like a treat when I have it rarely. (I adore the taste of coffee, and I always try to use organically grown ingredients whenever possible.) It's sometimes nice to have a cup when I have company over and we want to enjoy each other's presence super-late into the night. It's good to have around during Role Playing games and the like.
Further, unlike drugs such as alcohol or pot, it doesn't modify one's character, creativity or type of awareness, (that is, not beyond pepping one into higher energy.) Nor does it cause any kind of neurological damage. --The only drawback is that it can be a little hard on the stomach and immune system, but so long as one is healthy, this is barely an issue. Coffee addiction is very, very easy to break. Less than a week of cold turkey in most cases. You certainly don't need a year to leave coffee behind!
Really. Coffee is one of the good ones. There are a few plants out there which can be seen as gifts to humankind. So long as one is not being another dull puritan.
As for your other points. . . I agree that prescribing an anti-depressant for ADHD is in nearly all cases, a severely stupid idea, but you still don't appear to know what you're talking about regarding the condition.
This poster had some interesting comments which you might want to look at.
Take care!
-FL
i was diagnosed with it but the pills never helped later i found out i was misdiagnosed. *shrugs* oh well
I like that explanation. I try to stay away from caffine. Yes the pills can help, but they can really help for finals week when you need a one track mind. This 'one track mind' thing that the pills give you is what I dont' like, I like my quick mindedness! Ritalin sucks I hate it, it makes me feel funny, and basically gross. Dex is nicer but still sucks. If you plan to stay with Rx drugs go with a time release so you don't get all cracked out on the little weenie pills.
As far as naturals alternatives I would suggest buying some hyper-potent version from Sears Labs.
I'm not a doctor, but I have done enough (both personal testing and text) research to find that THC has a similar, but less detrimental effect on those with ADD/ADHD. My evidence is as follows:
Ritalin acts as a seratonin (essentially the chemical your brain needs to maintain activity and consciousness, which is elevated in patients with ADD/ADHD) reuptake inhibitor, simultaneously blocking absorbtion within the temporal lobe, and telling the brain to produce more seratonin. This is why people using the drug can often experience a "ritalin crash" when they miss their medications, and all that surplus seratonin kicks in.
(This is also why "normal" people who try to take Ritalin wind up zipping around like a mosquito on crystal meth)
THC (the active ingrediant in marijuana) also acts as a seratonin reuptake inhibitor within the temporal lobe. However, unlike Ritalin, it tells the brain to relax it's seratonin production. Thus, no seratonin surplus to cause a "Ritalin crash".
(This is why "normal" people basically eat an entire pizza and fall asleep after smoking a joint, and yet most who qualify as ADD/ADHD sufferers go through creative or constructive bursts)
As for personal observations, I took several attention tests to see how I measured up. After a few tests on the EEG biofeedback machine, I tried it while buzzed, and passed with close to a 50% higher level of attention than the prior scores.
It would be interesting if anyone out there could perform a study on the subject. I lack the qualifications to perform it myself, and can only give a layman's perspective on the subject.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
The name of the non-amphetamine drug is "Strattera". Now I've tried this medication myself and it didn't help at all. In fact it made me worse because it made me sleep on an off thought out the entire day there by preventing me from getting my work done. So I decided to try and take it before I went to bed because I figured it would help me sleep. Boy was I ever wrong!!! I must have woken up atleast 12 times that night. When I would try to go back to sleep I became restless and irritated. After that I gave up on the medication especially because the doctor was planning on working me up to the highest dosage an at this point I was only taking 1/4 of that. I mean if the side effect were that bad already, what would happen when I took 4 times that amount.
I don't want to sound like a disrespectful bastard here, but you've really got to question a diagnosis of ADD. Granted, there are people who genuinely have it - I'm not going to question that, but one of the things that shows it might be a "fad" for a lot of people is the rate of people being diagnosed with it.
/.. After a few 50 posts and reading the article, I can't even focus enough to post a meaningful comment.
I went for years to different pyschologists, in different areas of expertise, becuase I couldn't focus on a certain topic for long periods of time. I would jump from subject to subject to subject. I would learn a little and move on. I wasn't spectacular in school or in the university (average A/B student, more a B student than an A), but I learned various subjects and was able to coorelate them.
I haven't changed in my professional world. I'll work on something for a couple of hours and then jump to something for 5 minutes, go to something else and then go back to what I was doing.
Same thing happens with me with
But none of this means I have ADD. After 8 years of therapy, with psychologists, psychiatrists, neuro-therapists, it results that I have a higher synaptic activity than the normal person. Not meaning I'm smarter, but I'm able to absorb information quicker than most and able to correlate the information better.
One of the psychologists made me write out a mental map of how I store information in my head so I could recognize how I stored data and be able to exploit that.
It may not be the poster's case, nor everyone, but it can be a possibility. Just like any other life-altering disease, it's a good idea to go to a specialist and quite possibly two or three.
Cheers!
I am the Spirit within The Machine.
This is a gigantic lie. I can attest to it from my own experience.
ALL of the kids who were involved in these mass school shootings were on Ritalin or similar substances.Where is your proof of this? Why are so many people here willing to take your word for it? Because it conforms to their anti-ADHD prejudices, no doubt. It's a near certainty that you just pulled this "fact" out of your backside.
For God's sake. Please don't take any of that crap, especially rydlin
After suffering under hyperactivity through childhood, I've come to the conclusion that Hyperactivity is really more a problem of impatient or ignorant parents and teachers who are more interested in kids who conform than kids who think and act for themselves. They'd rather medicate than put in some elbo grease and do the work that's required to deal with people who don't conform to their model person. There is nothing wrong with hyperactivity, it is normal, and wasn't even noticed as a problem until we started trying to shove people into cbuicle lifestyles. Infact most hyperactive kids have IO's that are higher than average. It amazes me how society tries to shove them into a system that treates them like freaks of nature, and then sits back and wonders why things turn out so screwed up. Try sunshine, exercise, a healthy diet, and dicipline - (a good dose of which is good for any kid or adult) and other than that, deal with it.
Looking back, I never suffered much from hyperactivity, but I suffered plenty from adults and teachers (and yes peers too) who would become impatient and lash out both verbally and physically. Often "payback" was delayed and anonymous, so by time they got their revenge, I wouldn't even know what I was suffering for. Hyperactivity, only becomes your problem later on in life. By then, all the crap that you've taken from people who tried to force you to conform starts to take an emotional toll. Most hyperactive people suffer serious depression later on in life, but will also not likely find the help they need for the same reasons. Taking a pill will only make it worse, because (like alchol) it will cover up the problem until it is out of controll. IMHO, you are far better off just fighting thru the shit you are sure to encounter, and keep trying. I wish luck to anyone who has to deal with it, it will be a hard journey.
First, I am a Doctor (IAAD)?
Second, these are just general comments, not medical advice directed towards anyone in particular.
There are several useful algorithms for diagnosing ADHD. The DSM-IV definition is listed in an earlier posting. Our clinic uses the ADHD-RS (Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder Rating Scale) form. It asks 18 questions about the person's behavior. The questions are rated from NEVER (score=0) to ALWAYS (score=3). The maximum score is 54 (3*18). A common cutoff is a score of 40. Above 40, and you've probably got ADHD. Below 40, probably not. Then, you try treating these kids with one of the medicines. Try Adderall, Concerta, Ritalin LA, or Strattera, or whatever other med floats your boat. Re-score them on the ADHD-RS in a few weeks and see if they're improving. If not, switch them.
If you read the ADHD-RS scale, you'll see that most kids score 10-30. These probably don't have ADHD. But, there's tremendous pressure placed on Doctors by parents and teachers to medicate these kids. If they actually meet criteria, medication CAN be extremely helpful. If not, you're just medicating a normal kid and doing him no favors.
The ADHD-RS is copyrighted, so I couldn't find a link to it that wasn't on a restricted academic site. But, look around and you'll probably find it. You'll find plenty of studies referring to it.
Sleep Apnea (not breathing correctly during sleep ) can have similar symptoms. But you'll also be mighty tired. Or in some cases, people address this by being hyper or using mass stimulants. Inability to concentrate due to sustained sleep deprivation is just the beginning. Worst part, most people who have it never realize it until someone else notices strange breathing patterns in their sleep and they get it checked out. I feel the need to say it 'cause my doctor missed it and sent me to a shrink based on my symptoms. Tiredness, lack of attention, depression, bad health, absent mined, and mega coffee just to function. I never went to the shrink and thanks to my new girl's advice I went to get a sleep study done. Got a special machine called a CPAP to breath with at night. Whammo! I have new life. No joke. Do a google and read the testimonials. I'm awaiting some minor throat surgery to see if I can ditch the CPAP. Probably you don't have it but it is worth looking into if you are thinking about ADD and all the rest of that.
Thom Hartmann ("ADD: A Different Perception.") doesn't believe that the ADD condition is a disability.
He believes there are two kinds of people, Hunters and Farmers. Hunters have to scan the horizon, taking in all the inputs in order to find game. Farmers plod ahead, focused on plowing their current row.
http://www.thomhartmann.com/hunterfarmer.shtml
He found a high incidence of ADD in some natives in Canada (Inuit?), a tribe that gets most of their food by hunting.
The problem with today's education system, is that we're trying to force Hunters to be Farmers. Ritalin, an amphetamine, calms Hunters down.
But there are many successful Hunters that don't need to conform to the Farmer world. So, the Hunter should find a career that utilizes his traits (as noted in the above URL), and he will be successful and happy.
My son was constantly getting kicked out of daycares for being too aggressive, and when his kindergarden teacher was totally exasperated because he would never sit down, we had him diagnosed. Giving him drugs was the last thing we wanted to do, but the alternative was major damage to his self-esteem because he couldn't control himself and felt like a failure. Too much Ritalin will make a kid into a zombie, I didn't like that. But just the right amount allowed him to control himself and he was much happier.
Now that he's in high school, he quit taking those drugs. Earlier he had switched to Adderol, but it affected his heart. Now he's trying to deal with being a Hunter. It's very challenging, he's smart and scores high but gets very low grades because homework doesn't get done.
I know he'll be successful in whatever he decides to do. I don't consider grades to be an indicator of his future success.
I knew a dude who used to work for napster, don't know what he's doing these days... Anyway, dude was diagnosed with ADHD, but he stayed away from the drugs.
His strategy was to work on many projects simultaneously, and constantly shuffle between them. Seriously! The guy would work on one thing for like 1 minute to 20 minutes, and then move on to the next. He often juggled up to 10 different tasks at once.
It helped that had 3 PC's in his office. And at least one of them running Linux with multiple desk tops.
Not sure if this will help you, but it definitely worked for him!
That's what I call the attack of the oversensitive moderators. This statement is mildly amusing, and it is on-topic. I highly doubt that it would provoke a flame-war, or that it was really intended to do so.
The world of ADHD is governed by opinion. There are some doctors that would define it as having an average attention span of 10 minutes, there are others that would diagnose any kid that doesn't pay attention in class for any reason.
The actual definition of ADHD has changed multiple times over the past few years. In the 80's, I might have had it. In the 90's, I probably wouldn't have. Currently, I might have it again.
If you have ADHD, it applies to anything that you do. This includes things that interest you, as well as things that do not. If you can sit and play a computer game for a few hours, but can't sit still through English class, you probably just don't have enough self-control, not ADHD. If you want to play computer games, but feel the urge to run around the block, pick up a book and read, and watch a movie or two at the same time... you probably have it.
To make jokes about something does not diminish the intensity of the subject. Laughter is a necessary part of human life. We tend to find humour in the most devestating events, because we have to. ADHD, and having it, are serious matters. In order to make it more digestable, we absolutely must approach it from an angle of laughter as well as an angle of seriousness.
Now I don't want to bore you with success stories and the ethics of child ADHD diagnosis. I do agree that ritalin is over-prescribed in children. However ADHD is very different when it comes to adults.
By the time I reached 9th grade, ritalin was no longer cutting it with me. I sank into a deep deep depression. A psychiatrist after many months of counseling switched me to a new drug called imipramine. Again miracles. That was about 10 years ago.
The real problem with ritalin is its short period of effect. The full dose is felt over a period of several hours after which the effect begins to taper off. Imipramine has the advantage of being able to miss a dose or two before any noticeable changes to your mindset occur. Even though my doses are once per day, I have been known to miss an entire week. From what I remember, you barely realize that the effect is wearing off, and by the very nature of the attention-deficit, you fail to remember to take your next dose.
What's worse, you actually begin to rationalize not taking it. "I don't want to conform to society's image." "I should learn to live with my true self." "I should not be chemical dependent." I can't remember how many times I told myself these things and let my dosages slip. My life would begin to fall apart, I would start getting frustrated and depressed, and those around me would start freaking out in my presence. I couldn't actually notice the change in my personality directly. I had to see indirectly in the people around me. My mother once yelled at me maniacally after 2 weeks off my meds, "Have you been taking your medication?! If so, why am I acting like THIS?!"
However, choosing the proper meds for ADHD is a roulette wheel and has different effects on different people. It's been too long since I last took ritalin, so I can't remember the effects very well. However, I can give you the pros and cons of my current drug imipramine.
Advantages: One of the most depressing things about ADHD is all your wonderful ideas and your complete inability to act upon them. Imipramine facilitated my own self-control and the ability to act on my goals. You won't believe how immensely positive this has been to my life. Next fall semester I will begin pursuing my Ph.D. in CS, whereas before I started taking the drug, I thought I'd have to get by as a new age healer or a fantasy fiction writer. Pretty depressing huh?
Other secondary, but no less beneficial effects include more self-esteem, no longer being an asshole to other people, and no longer am abusive towards animals (a big plus since I love cats!).
Disadvantages: My dosage causes extreme drowsiness but I've learned to deal with this by taking at the night. As a consequence of many years of this routine, it is very difficult for me to sleep *without* taking my meds.
I am chemically dependent to run my life effectively. This is not to say I am addicted. Imipramine is not an addictive substance. However, if I don't take my meds I will probably lose my job, flunk out of school, and destroy my relationships with people I love.
Imipramine is not very sensitive in lapses in dosage for any period longer than 2 days. However, sudden increases in the dosage can cause sickness.
Finally, the saddest disadvantage is the loss of compulsive creativity. There was a period of time in 11th grade where I stayed off my meds for almost 2 months. In that time I began writing a novel. I'm not sure if it was good or not, but the drive was insatiable. I forsaked all my other studies and any all relationships with the outside world. Of course my life was falling apart around me but I didn't much care. Part of this drive was an unwillingness to live in the present reality since it was all very depressing. I can say that it wasn't a very happy time for me, but the results of that time are quite impressive and vivid. The almost insane drive to create does not exist when I am under the influence. I am creative, just not compulsively so.
------
wildmage
Memoirs of a Mad Scientist
tha'ts about all :)
misplaced apostrphe? it's just the... gaah
How do you figure that there is even a problem? I believe the hole idea of ADHD is BS. I think the whole idea of making up this whole rumish of ADHD or ADD is to cover up the next stage in human evolution. Since there is alot of these so called ADHD people that could just blow you away in level of inteligence. They're looked down upon by society, just because they're better and more equipt to handle most day to day situations, and that is what scares alot of people. So I will make my idea public, that it's a bunch of BS! Also why put yourself on drugs, all they do is severly mess you up. Haven't you investigated the side effects? I know plenty of kids that I have grown up with that were put on it and now they're either zombies, non motivated idiots, affraid to be in society, etc. These were perfectly normal people until doctors and school teachers wanted a simple solution to not having to adapt to a different teaching style for the student. I have since got the ADHD label dropped and I made sure that the teachers and everyone knew that they're stupid for putting the kids on drugs. My first recommendation is get of those stupid drugs, they're bad for you! Second, if you think you have such a problem, take some herbal supplements. But for goodness sake don't drug yourself. I never took those crappy drugs, I did however try the herbal supplements for awhile, then I just quit it all together and decided to live my life like a normal person instead of how doctors want. But if you listin to doctors, you have problems.
How do I deal with this "problem" now? To be honest, it's become one of the things that keeps me in demand with my customers! It's called "multitasking" by some - the ability to seemingly work on several things at once.
Tech support call coming in while I'm coding? Hey - that's what being able to open multiple windows are for! If I were on the drugs to "fix" this problem, would I still be able to code a graphics application while explaining the inner workings of an industrial washing machine to a customer in Canada? No? Oh, my... have to close one business...
Personal opinion - too many people are far too willing to through chemicals at perceived problems, be they doctors and parents dealing with a kid they've tagged as "ADHD", or that kid taking "recreational drugs" to deal with his/her stupid parents trying to dope them up.
Personal observation - a friend recently put his daughter on ADHD medication. It has helped a lot with her school work. But, they have to be careful about the dosage and timing; if they give it to her too early, she's a terror before bed, but too late, and she can't sleep.
Which is a better situation? I don't know. Part of what channeled my "energy" into productive enterprises was parental discipline ("This looks like a good MILITARY ACADEMY for you to go to IF YOU DON'T START DOING YOUR SCHOOL WORK!") and expectations. And, frankly, work. If I didn't complete my homework and get good grades, I didn't get to do things to make money, which meant that I didn't get to do FUN things, like going to movies. Being sent to my room was punishment, because there was NOTHING TO DO; today, it's just isolation from the noisy parents while you play with your 2,000 toys... Punishment is limiting them to 1 hour of internet a day!
On the lighter side, have you noticed that those of us who are ADHD and Obsessive Compulsive can be OC about a lot more things than the average OC? B=)
What if the reasons behind your ADHD have less to do with your genetic profile than they do with the foods you ingest, the life stresses surrounding you, the environmental toxins in your home and workplace, (both chemical and electromagnetic in nature), etc, etc.
What if you're using a chemical to turn off the parts of your body and brain which are reacting to more immediate, more critical issues? Is it not perhaps better to search out these problems and solve them rather than zombify yourself? (And don't kid yourself. I have known many people who complained of decreased creativity, a lack of dreaming, lowered energy; a dolby-stereo existence while using anti-depressants.) Plus Paxil is a particularly nasty one; it's physically addictive and can have some fairly unpleasant effects on those who try to get off it. Takes about a month to clear it from your system, while drinking fresh water and clean foods.
Anti-depressants are poison of the worst kind, because they make it possible to put up with that which should be intollerable.
Good luck, my friend!
-FL
The son of a friend of mine was diagnosed with ADHD. She didn't want him taking Ritalin, so she started sending him to school with a thermos of coffee. The hope being that coffee would be able to stimulate the brain as well as Ritalin would.
I assume that either it worked, or she thought it worked.
bits and peace
Nicholas Daley
Funny you should mention this today--while reading the East Valley Tribune (a freedom communications newspaper) today (17 June 2003), I read a letter from a mother to T Berry Brazleton, the famed syndicated pediatrician.
The mother's child was diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Ritalin. After reading of the rather nasty side effects of Ritalin, the mother became super-dedicated in finding alternative therapies.
Turned out the child had rare food allergies to obscure/commonplace food items like corn and honey.
Eliminating these foods from the kid's diet eliminated his ADHD symptoms.
Brazelton posted a response that gave much credence to the mother's findings--I myself am a little bit more skeptical as I kind of doubt a concerned parents capabilities of setting up a proper control/variable hypothesis and testing it out keeping only one variable--I think about it further and consider that situation impossible.
Anyways, I think you should pick up the paper and read the article. Perhaps it might strike a chord with you.
If you can't find it and would like me to get you the article, my website is linked above and I can be contacted through it.
Good luck.
"[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
My god. Insightful? Who moderates this crap?
Living with ADD is one of the most annoying things I have had to deal with. One thing I have learned since being on, and off medication in my life, is that it is a much more refreshing feeling, and that I feel much more confident about myself when I don't take medication. It may seem difficult from time to time, but the side effects from the medication suck, no matter what you take, and it hurts my ability to buckle down and really work. The effects for everyone from the medication are different, but in my experience it is better if you learn how to deal with the ADD, so that you can learn how to handle it in general. Don't use the crutch of medication if you don't have to, remember if you can learn how your brain functions, you can control a lot of it on your own, or develop ways to compensate.
One of the ways that I compensate is I do most of my work after 2am. There is nothing on TV, no one is awake, and it is completely quiet in the city. Another way I handle it is to work on what I enjoy. It is much easier to focus on what you love to do, than it is to focus on some boring repetitive P.O.S. thing that work forces you to do (or Homework, same thing).
After all that has been said if you find yourself as Hyperactive seriously consider being medicated. Hyperactive ADD individuals can be very reckless, although I suspect they can work on controlling it too. As a final note, it is your body understand what you do to it. The medications (well the stimulants), are basically speed, so read up on what the drugs will do to you and make an informed decision. Have fun, and be safe, but don't assume you must medicate at any time.
So if you want to try meds to help you get along better in life, work with the doctor on them, but remember that you're in charge, and if that's not how your doctor wants to work, get another doctor. If Ritalin isn't doing it for you, and something else might, you and your doctor can experiment. (And of course that's for most other kinds of medicine besides ADHD as well.) Maybe Wellbutrin works for you (some people absolutely hate it!), maybe Dexedrine or other traditional amphetamines do (my niece's doctor had her on Dex in high school), maybe caffeine and/or exercise breaks work better. (Remember how schools dealt with energetic kids before Ritalin? Recess twice a day plus gym class, and sometimes actually paying individual attention to the kids...)
The big caveat with a lot of these drugs is that they are messing with your head, and everybody's reaction is somewhat different. If you find yourself getting wacked out or strung out, it's time to get attention quickly, because taking mind-altering drugs that aren't a good match for you can really mess you up, and the reason you're taking them is to help you cope better, not worse. Lots of people I know do anti-depressants, and some do manic-depressive drugs, and sometimes they find that after a while life just sucks, or that it doesn't suck badly but it just isn't any fun either, or that everything's fine and normal most of the time with occasional interruptions of suicidal depression or psychotic anger, which is not something you want to leave alone...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
It has been about 4 years since I stumbled upon the answer to my ADD. I have fully recovered, or lest I actually say it, I have been cured. Well, I actually came out with it. Now will come those who slander and perscute me with malice calling me a quack. I still think my research is worth some award. It leads to the cure of ADD and ADHD. So I will give it to you. Read it before something happens and it is deleted from the Internet or banned from all search engines . . . well the latter may have already happened. http://www.freewebs.com/addresearch/ ADD and ADHD are probably caused by variant of ordinary adrenal fatigue. The adrenals supply the body with its energy via different chemicals like cortisol and norepinephrine. No wonder why I and my friends who have ADD have adrenal fatigue and no wonder there is hyperactivity in ADHD. The body uses the cortisol from the adrenals to covert fats, proteins, carbohydrates, and glycogen into glucose to fuel your body including the brain. It is proven people with ADHD have low cortisol and there is a lack of glucose in the ADHD brains. Hence, the SPECT scans seem to show the lack of glucose utilization. I hypothesize, there is very little glucose to go around due to the low cortisol and instability of cortisol causing fluctuations in blood sugar. I still believe the NIH didn't know what they were looking at. Many ADHDer's therefore have hypoglycemia and some have diabetes. Unless glucose can be measured in blood or brain more accurately the best thing to go by is fluctuations in cortisol to determine unstable blood sugar. It is my hypothesis that all persons with ADHD have unstable cortisol levels that are too low or high. More tests need to be done. Adrenal fatigue has never tested so accurately with present adrenal stress index tests from Diagnos Techs of Washington using not blood but saliva. Fluctuations in norepinephrine have also been studied and also effect blood sugar. Norepinephrine seems to be causing hyperactivity somehow. Epinephrine is also low. It effects blood sugar. Dopamine is low but it can be explained by low norepinephrine, its precursor. The cortisol rhythm in ADD and ADHD is evidently effected. For a fact, when I made an effort to stablize cortisol rhythm it cured my ADD. I used deglycerrized licorice to raise it in the mornings inhibiting the BHOD enzyme. At night I used SERIPHOS or phosphatidylserine to lower my cortisol and also aid sleep. During the day I used adrenal cortical extract to aid regeneration of tissue. I am still using all and I have been cured of my ADD. I do not recommend nor do I promote the products I took that I suspect cured my ADD. I am not advertising anything. If you are picky you could say I grew out of it or even that taking these supplements coincided with growing out of it. But out of the few chemicals that are low in ADD and ADHD, all that I know of including dopamine come from the adrenals in some form or fashion. Much is still not known about these tiny adrenal glands. They are rarely ever mentioned in modern medicine, but I suspect that they effect scores of psychological diseases through the cortisol/gluconeogenesis relationship and the lack of glucose supply in the human brains of those with ADHD and other psychological diseases. I bet the person that continues my research (if he is a Doctor with a PHD) will get a noble prize. It is here for the taking! I, though, killed my GPA because ADD. Even after I made straight A's in college last year, I have lost years of valuable schooling because of ADD. I am too busy playing catch up to become a Doctor yet alone a PHD to write in a journal. Maybe you can do it! I am rather going into technology. Please be polite in your responses to my hypothesis. I don't like name calling or unethical remarks. Again, my website is: http://www.freewebs.com/addresearch/ Please read it.
First, since there are so many people tossing around opinions who don't even have ADHD let me say that I have had ADHD since childhood. I have been diagnosed multiple times both in childhood and as an adult. To those who've posted saying ADHD doesn't exist, "it's all in your head". Well, it is in your head but it does exist. It may not exist for you (misdiagnosis is a big problem) but it does for some people including me.
I'm posting this anon. because I'm the CEO at a fairly successful tech company and too many people still don't understand ADHD well enough. I'm not sure I want to deal with this being brought up at the next board meeting. You see that's a big part of the problem, the misinformation and sometimes stigma. (I don't mind the jokes posted above though. It was funny stuff and we should be able laugh about it).
Contrary to what some will tell you, ADHD is not a negative condition like diabetes or something. ADHD can have some downsides and it can have some upsides. ADHD was originally identified by the medical community based on its negative aspects. Only more recently have the positive characteristics started to be understood and studied. On the upside, people with ADHD can be extremely creative. I don't just mean like, "oh, you're so creative" I mean like wild shit where other people just look at you and say, "wow cool, how'd you do that?"
You can also turn your periods of hyper-focus to your advantage (if you have ADHD you'll know what 'hyper-focus' is). If you train it, you can apply it in valuable ways. On the downside, well the downsides are already pretty well covered elsewhere. The thing to remember is that you can manage the downsides and minimize them almost into non-existance. There are personal organizational tools you can use (some mentioned in other posts) and you can take steps to structure things in ways to exploit your strengths.
Lots of people have already posted rants about Ritalin. In my experience Ritalin is a vital tool for managing ADHD, both minimizing weaknesses caused by it and maximizing strengths. Some people with ADHD don't respond well to Ritalin. Their experience doesn't mean that you shouldn't try it. There are other medications as well (adderol, wellbutrin, etc.) They may be effective tools for you if Ritalin isn't.
It's important to know that these drugs will not suddenly eliminate the symptoms of ADHD. They don't make you "normal" (whatever that is). What they can do for you is modulate some aspects of the condition. There are times when I take Ritalin and there are times when I intentionally don't, specifically because I want to *use* certain aspects of ADHD to my benefit.
The best analogy I can come up with isn't very good but picture a person who has a unique memory condition. On one hand, they are completely absent-minded to an extreme degree. Can't remember where they parked. Can't remember what they had for breakfast yesterday. On the other hand, they can glance at a phone book page for three seconds and two weeks later recite back every last detail on that page. There are some drugs that they can take that will modulate the absent-mindedness to a large degree (though not completely). But they also mostly lose the ability to do that photographic memory phonebook thing. Obviously, there are times when you'd take the meds and times you might really want to have your "handicap" intact and chugging on all cylinders.
That's what ADHD is like for me, except it's not about memory. Instead it involves a more difficult to define area centered on creativity, focus and the 'connectedness' of things in your head. It's hard to explain exactly what it's like to someone that doesn't have it but it has to do with the way in which data is processed. BTW, I think all ADHDer's internal experience of the condition is somewhat different. In my case, there are all kinds of CPU analogies I could come up with like out-of-order-execution, branch mis-prediction and memory bus contention. While these models may be sort of useful they aren't
It is a sham.
ADD.. not sure if it's the old name for ADHD or if they're seperate 'conditions'... I only took drugs for it for about 3 months, and I've found that all it really takes for me to concentrate is some discipline, and the ability to multitask(Letting one part of your brain play with the string while the rest gets work done, is a good way to deal with it... at least for me.)
If I could I'd mod you up to +5 Insightful. All my best to you.
- Someone who knows too well what it's like to be on the receiving end of ignorant and judgmental bullshit
I actually had the fortune to work with someone that had ADD and Tourette syndrome. He drank Mt. Dew like he was addicted. When I worked with him, things happened instantly, and mostly flawlessly. He was excellent at coming up with neat algorithms that I ordinarily wouldn't come up with, and I just had the ability to design and implement the ideas almost as quick as he came up with them.
The moral of the story, I think, is that with a little variety, you can find combinations of people that have a lot of quirks, yet the job gets done quicker and better than a team of 8 and twice the time.
Everytime he tried cutting back on caffeine, he had problems focusing. He also had problems sleeping if he didn't have the proper medication and lighting. He had SAD. He took a lot of medication, and for him, as he described it, it was a matter of experimentation. The speed/caffeine (caffeine amplifies medication most of the time, and it specifically seems to help his ADD he said) combination is what he said worked best for him, but for some reason he was always being moved to different medications.
Altogether a great guy, and I think his quirks actually helped him in a lot of ways. The more diverse your team, the more different perspectives there are to weigh.
Karma Clown
As an adult (22), I started with Ritalin, then Dexadrine, then Adderall. All of which are amphetamines, each being stronger than the previous.
I got so SICK of taking pills everyday. I KNEW that ADD/ADHD HAD to be some sort of fad diagnosis. Sure, there are people out there with genuine ADD, just like there are people out there that are schizophrenic, but people that suffer from genuine schizophrenia are few and far between. I knew that genuine cases of ADD must be just as rare.
Why is it that 'everyone' is being stricken with ADD? Is ADD becoming an epidemic. Is it some sort of communicable disease?
I started thinking: ADD is a SYMPTOM of the PROBLEM
Whats the problem?
Is ADD my bodys way of telling me I have an amphetamine deficiency?
No...
I started doing research. I came to the conclusion that in todays day & age, we do not get proper nutrition. Especially in the United States where we live & die by processed foods. We consume more sugar than any other people on the face of this earth. And ADD/ADHD is becoming epidemic? Is this coincidence?
Now, from what I found not all people are as sensitive to eating "junkfood". Everyone is different. For example: If I were to eat nothing but junk food (fast food, candy, pop) I would stay the same weight, but my ADD would get so out of hand I'd lose my job, whereas the person next to me wouldn't lose any mental function, but would gain a hundred pounds. I personally survived on Mountain Dew and solar power, with the occasional Twinkie or McDonalds -- and I was thin as a rail.
The solution for me involved getting off the amphetamines and starting to take Vitamins. Then eating more healthy meals.
I started taking over-the-counter vitamins, then moved to higher quality (read: more expensive) vitamins that I found over the internet.
Now, don't think that this is a quick process.
Think about this (bear with me):
If you were to break a bone, it would take some time to heal, right?
If you didn't clean out your refrigerator for 25 years, it'd get pretty gross inside of there, right?
The point I'm making here is that if you've been feeding low quality junk to your system for years, you need to "clean it out" and let your body heal itself. This takes time.
I found that your body is just like a computer, garbage in, garbage out. You can only give it garbage for so long before things just dont work right. It takes time to get all the garbage out. Just like a fat person can't expect to lose 150 pounds in 30 days...
The steps I took to go through this started with vitamins, which helped. Then I delved into "Alternative Medicine" which I found to be incredibly refreshing. Rather than treat the symptom, like modern medicine does by giving amphetamines, Alternative medicine seeks to find and treat the cause. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not some tie-died grass smokin birkenstock wearin granola eatin hippie. I'm a computer nerd, and a damn good one. Modern medicine doesn't have the answers. They're really good at treating the symptoms. Don't get me wrong, I still go to regular doctors & get checkups, but...
Then I went to a doctor who performed some tests called "EQ4" or "Electrodermal Screening" (Search Google). This testing sounds completely hokey, but I swear - this is what pinpointed the areas of my "refrigerator" that needed cleaning.
I'll tell you, starting on the EQ4 therapy really opened up the sluices at both ends. We're talking emergency evacuation here. I was just plain sick - but even though I was sick, strangely, I never felt better. The sickness only lasted for 2-3 days. From what I hear, that type of reaction is uncommon.
Once I finished that, I finally felt free from ADD. I continute to take daily vitamins (SeaSilver, if you must know) and now I simply maintain a healty body and watch what I eat.
If I eat t
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
The so-called "mental illnesses" are not, I repeat, not the result of chemical imbalances. They are the manifestation of a deeper, spiritual issue.
Smoking crack helps, or so I've heard.
So go down to your local supplier and pick up a 20 rock.
Made me laugh more than anything I've seen on slashdot in weeks.
Pregancy.
There often there is no knowledge of the effects these drugs have on the child.
Do you risk your job, your stability or your child?
I have ADD and I thought it would be useful to point out that there is a difference between ADD and ADHD. Not everyone is diagnosed with hyperactive disorder in addition to attention deficit. From my readings, many adults do not know and are never diagnosed with ADD/ADHD. It's still one of those things that people haven't accepted, just like giving ritalin to many kids. IMO, it's probably over diagnosed in children and under diagnosed in adults. I am not a doctor though.
:-) There is a definite difference when I don't take meds. Lack of concentration, lose focus easily, etc. Any little noise or motion caught by my eye will distract me.
As for meds, I take Ritalin SR. I took Concerta for about a year and eventually it started to do nothing for me. Even upping the dosage helped none. I'm on a lower dose of Ritalin SR and it works a lot better. I still have issues with motivation, but I think those are less related to ADD then to just not wanting to start something. Ain't apathy great?
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that there is a symptom called hyperfocus. So, not only can one with ADD become distracted by things, but the same person can also become extremely focused on one thing, and no minor thing will distract that person. At work, the whole distraction thing can keep me from getting something done, but once I get so focused on something that nothing distracts me, I can go hours. So there are definitely pros and cons to it.
As for telling your boss, I say try and judge how he/she will react to it. I've told mine as well as my very close coworkers and friends. Whether they believe it's a true disorder or not aside, they know and some have told me when they see improvements or vice versa. If your boss is open to these kinds of things, then I would tell him. May make things easier and he may point things out along the way.
As for your parents and siblings, they can react different ways. My mom is a teacher and actually set me up with a psychologist who comes to her school for the testing and diagnosis. She kept telling me to look into it for about two years. My sister, dad and step-mother all feel the opposite. That I don't have ADD, that I don't need meds, etc. They don't see the difference that occurs when I take the meds. So no matter who you tell, there will be people who are on both sides of the fence.
Lastly I'll close with this... I've found that alcohol has the "same" effect that the Ritalin has. It seems the Ritalin will speed up the slow parts of the brain, where as the alcohol will slow down the fast parts of the brain. Just a personal observation.
Good luck with the diagnosis. One good thing out of it is that you can tell people you take stimulants that are derivatives of speed or other narcotics. Just something I like to joke about. Oh, and my doctor has no red tape, that I know of, to deal with. I just have to pick up a new prescription each month. Oh, and don't take it on weekends if you don't need it. Your body will become accustomed to it and won't have the same effects. (How's that for a bunch of random thoughts?)
-Chris
Two words: Biofeedback Therapy. Allopathic Medicine has been the hard rule in the states for a long time, but the gap has been closing in the recent decades.
The kind of biofeedback therapy i'm thinking of is the kind where a computer accepts input from a crown of electrodes that measure the electromagnetic fields in the brain, interpereting the data in such a way as to allow it to use the input as the inputs for game-like tasks that train you to actually correct problems like bipolar disorder and ADHD not by adding chemicals to the stews in our brains, but rather approaching it from a cognative angle, perhaps analogous to exersizing a muscle.
These same tools were developed to study the effect of yogic meditation on the brain, and studies that used this technology in conjunction with yoga training found that similar mindstates could be acheived in a fraction of the time with the neural feedback provided by a computer (that is, giving you visual and auditory feedback of yoru current brain state, allowing you to consciously change it).
This may sound very blue-sky, but my younger sister has been undergoing biofeedback therapy administered by a holistic doctor for a condition that hasn't even been completely diagnosed by several traditional psychologists, ideas ranging from bipolar disorder, manic depressive, ADHD, they haven't really decided yet. Since she started the therapy, however, she's much improved.
To help further clarify what i'm talking about and perhaps provide further information for the interested, one computer program that she used in therapy displayed three rocket ships on the screen. She was told that the left-hand rocket represented something like being bored and daydreamy, and the right-hand rocket represented something like hyperactivity and excitement, with the middle rocket ship representing Focus. The computer program is calibrated much like a lie-detector test, and the computer will reward a shift in her brain state towards Focused Attention with the graphical representation of the middle rocket ship rising, with similar reactions in the other two ships when slips into the other two brain states are detected by the electrodes on her head.
She can play pacman without touching a physical controller, after calibrating the software correctly. Her current exersizes with the gear, i beleive, are simply transcendental meditation rouines aided by the biofeedback software. I'm pretty sure i saw a getup like this pilot a flight sim (without a controller) back in college. This is a legitimate field of study, folks.
The hardware and software (i dont know if its exactly what my sister uses, but its damn close) can be found at www.brainfingers.com, and even includes a midi-mapper interface for the brainwave interpreter (as well as some games and i think a development kit)!
Before I get any replies of this nature, I'm not entirely in the loop with what my sister's current scholastic/health situation is, but I -do- know that my mother isn't disregarding or ignoring the help of traditional psychologists or allopathic doctors, but from what i can tell, has just sought out options for treatment that don't involve drugging her up (not that i'm opposed to recreational drugging, just habitual drugging).
I, for one, equate the modern condition of psychopharmacy to be in the same state as surgery in the dark ages. I have several examples of how this is so and why, but i think this post has gone on quite long enough anyway.
From erowid:
"Ritalin (methylphenidate) does contain an amphetamine-like backbone, however it is more complex. Take a look at the difference in Chem-Compare. The additional structures on this molecule also alter its interaction with the body and the neurons in our brains. Methylphenidate is reported to have less euphoric effects (some people describe it as 'more dull') than methamphetamine"
Personal experience shows this true. Ritalin is a poor substitute for good crystal.
turns out the over diagnose it, and i was BORED IN CLASS!!!!
First, since there are so many people tossing around opinions who don't even have ADHD let me say that I have had ADHD since childhood. I have been diagnosed multiple times both in childhood and as an adult. To those who've posted saying ADHD doesn't exist, "it's all in your head". Well, it is in your head but it does exist. It may not exist for you (misdiagnosis is a big problem) but it does for some people including me.
I'm posting this anon. because I'm the CEO at a fairly successful tech company and too many people still don't understand ADHD well enough. I'm not sure I want to deal with this being brought up at the next board meeting. You see that's a big part of the problem, the misinformation and sometimes stigma. (I don't mind the jokes posted above though. It was funny stuff and we should be able laugh about it).
Contrary to what some will tell you, ADHD is not a negative condition like diabetes or something. ADHD can have some downsides and it can have some upsides. ADHD was originally identified by the medical community based on its negative aspects. Only more recently have the positive characteristics started to be understood and studied. On the upside, people with ADHD can be extremely creative. I don't just mean like, "oh, you're so creative" I mean like wild shit where other people just look at you and say, "wow cool, how'd you do that?"
You can also turn your periods of hyper-focus to your advantage (if you have ADHD you'll know what 'hyper-focus' is). If you train it, you can apply it in valuable ways. On the downside, well the downsides are already pretty well covered elsewhere. The thing to remember is that you can manage the downsides and minimize them almost into non-existance. There are personal organizational tools you can use (some mentioned in other posts) and you can take steps to structure things in ways to exploit your strengths.
Lots of people have already posted rants about Ritalin. In my experience Ritalin is a vital tool for managing ADHD, both minimizing weaknesses caused by it and maximizing strengths. Some people with ADHD don't respond well to Ritalin. Their experience doesn't mean that you shouldn't try it. There are other medications as well (adderol, wellbutrin, etc.) They may be effective tools for you if Ritalin isn't.
It's important to know that these drugs will not suddenly eliminate the symptoms of ADHD. They don't make you "normal" (whatever that is). What they can do for you is modulate some aspects of the condition. There are times when I take Ritalin and there are times when I intentionally don't, specifically because I want to *use* certain aspects of ADHD to my benefit.
The best analogy I can come up with isn't very good but picture a person who has a unique memory condition. On one hand, they are completely absent-minded to an extreme degree. Can't remember where they parked. Can't remember what they had for breakfast yesterday. On the other hand, they can glance at a phone book page for three seconds and two weeks later recite back every last detail on that page. There are some drugs that they can take that will modulate the absent-mindedness to a large degree (though not completely). But they also mostly lose the ability to do that photographic memory phonebook thing. Obviously, there are times when you'd take the meds and times you might really want to have your "handicap" intact and chugging on all cylinders.
That's what ADHD is like for me, except it's not about memory. Instead it involves a more difficult to define area centered on creativity, focus and the 'connectedness' of things in your head. It's hard to explain exactly what it's like to someone that doesn't have it but it has to do with the way in which data is processed. BTW, I think all ADHDer's internal experience of the condition is somewhat different. In my case, there are all kinds of CPU analogies I could come up with like out-of-order-execution, branch mis-prediction and memory bus contention. While these models may be sort of useful they aren't
The poster must be a total quack then. Does he have strings that need to be pulled to set his aura back into correct aligntment with the planets?
another intellect dulled to ensure conformatity with misplaced social mores. You don't have to be nice to everyone despite what people try to tell you it is entirely possible to live life without being nice to fools and your intellectual inferiors you do not have to dull your sharper mind to conform.
Flush the chemical cosh down the sink and go find a thick person for a therapeutic rant.
I also had a cousin who was manic-depressive, who killed himself after going drinking one night. His wife wasn't manic-depressive, but she was using a lot of cocaine in those years, which is pretty good way to fake it if you're not :-) I didn't know him well; he was about 15 years older and lived on the other side of the country.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I once had a cool job where I was able to switch to a 28 hour day. 28*6=24*7, so I had a regular schedule. They were ecstatic, they knew exactly when I'd be at work: it was easy for me to keep a regular schedule.
I'm not as bad anymore. 2 hours of exercise a day makes 24 hour days possible.
Bryan
I've heard of a treatment for ADHD kids using neurofeedback; anyone have experience with that?
It sounds interesting, but I haven't seen any data on its effectiveness for adults.
I was diagnosed with ADHS, which was called ADD at the time, as a teanager. At the time, the common drug was ritalin (as I recall), but they where going a step up for me and wanted to prescribe Lithium (another speed). I read the side effects and decided that I did not wish to have those things happen to me; I was primarily concerned with loosing all of my hair :P So I went through life having been diagnosed, but never did anything about it.
:P
:P I do well because I have become good at teaching myself, I am pretty smart (without waving my own flag :P), and I have become very proficient at poping into the middle of a conversation and gathering enough to get by...and I sit in the back :P
:P In all honesty that is not far from the truth.
First the obvious, I lived.
It has not been all fun and games though. I went through a few years of pretty bad drug habits (I don't believe I ever actually became addicted). Most of the worst involved a strong designer amphetamine....which is a close cousin of what they planned on giving me in the first place. I have to admit that when I first started taking these drugs they made me feel a lot better, more focused, more 'there'. That quickly changed.
I never graduated high school, I took my GED and walked. I do not blame ADHS for any of my problems, it is possible that it was a contributing factor, but there where so many of those. For the most part I found high school a waste of my time and that added with the massive hormone overdose and maybe a little by ADHS, I absolutely could not function in that environment.
I made a lot of stupid decisions in my life, my problems are not ADHS's fault. Some people may look at a past like that and tend to put blame on ADHS, but it was a minor detail.
So now, almost 10 years later, I am working on my last year in a bachelorate and am thinking of going for a phd in comp. sci. I have straight A's and graduated my 2 year college with highest honors (3.9 and currently holding a 4). I have learned to function with ADHS.
I still feel the effects of this "disorder". ADHS people tend to hyperfocus on certain things, like when some little pet-pieve gets me going I don't stop. When left to itself my mind tends to enter these little plays over stupid things. When I am talking to people I have a tendency to drift off and when I come to I habitually act like I was listening the whole time and then just try to retrack the conversation; sometimes without noticing I have done this. What is really freaky is when I have been responding - Oh shit, what did I just agree to?
In the classroom I am not so good. I can't sit there for an hour and listen to someone drone on and on about things, even if it is mildely interesting. I litterally cannot pay attention most of the time. I often learn from the book and ask questions, then let the lectures alone for the people who need and can listen to them. I use classtime to do my homework for that class
I also have a tendency to start things and never finish them, but I have gotten better at not doing that. I sometimes just do more than one thing at once, that way when I get bored or feel overwhelmed (when the ADHS kicks me the worse) I can change topic and feel fresh. One way I have learned to deal with this particular problem is to split things into smaller parts (even better if I can do more than one at the same time). It is when you become overwhelmed that ADHS will slam you, it is very simalar for most people actually but for you it is worse.
As far as programming goes, I think ADHS may be an advantage due to my hyperfocusing. When I run into a problem I actually exit the room while sitting there; friends have joked about it and say that I turn my computer on
I am adamantly against the current tendency for school councelors and psycologist to label children as having ADHS. I have a nephew that is 6 years old, is in
Why dont we name it BPS, every person with so called ADHD if you ask them why they dont pay attention to their task or job, they will tell you its because their task or job is borinng, its not exciting, etc.
I have not met one person who has REAL ADHD, meaning a person who cant even focus on doing what they like to do.
People with ADHD somehow manage to spend hours watching cartoons, playing video games, hacking on the internet, coming to sites like slashdot, so on and so forth.
These people however cant focus on their job, their school work, you know, the more boring aspects of life.
Theres two solutions, learn that life isnt all fun and games and that the majority of a persons life is just plain boring, and accept it. OR you can take pills, hide behind the ADHD, label yourself as inferior to "Normal" people, and try to get special benefits and privileges.
Now, if I had a job where I had to do Algebra and Calculus problems, suddenly I'd have ADHD as well, I'd fall asleep, or sooner look at butterflies before I could do that for 12 hours a day.
However, give me a job where I get to play PC games all day, or watch TV all day, suddenly I'm alert, and awake with no problem.
So go figure people, if you have ADHD, its not new, people have been lazy for centuries, people have had to do boring things for centuries, and thats part of life, adapt.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
He got along better with his mother, but school was still boring and sucked, and he was brighter than the teachers. Ritalin was the upcoming new thing then (before it had really taken over), and they made him take it. He could concentrate a bit better, but he didn't like people drugging him to change his personality. After about a week he'd figured out most of the effects it was having, so he decided that he was going to be himself and act like himself, not like a conforming drugged-out little zombie. So he did. "They" didn't like it that the drugs had stopped controlling him, but since he wasn't going to cooperate, they stopped drugging him.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
The problem with the amphetamines is that being a schedule II drug it is had to find the doctor who is not hesitant at prescribing such, also you have at the start have a doctor appointment to have it refilled, after such you can probably get the doc just to write it where you can stop by and pick it up. Adderall - XR is adderall's time release based medication which can be negated by the crushing or chewing of capsules.
It would be my preference to go with Adderall-XR as doctors see it as a less abuse able substance, and I've found it to be the best in increasing concentration and productivity, in a side note it offers a perk in euphoria, for those in a down mood and Iâ(TM)ve found Ritalin in different accounts to be "rough" on the system
For fun from the prescribing PDF on Adderall Alkalinizing agentsâ"Gastrointestinal alkalinizing agents (sodium bicarbonate, etc.) increase absorption of Amphetamines. Co-administration of ADDERALL XRâ and gastrointestinal alkalinizing agents, such as antacids, should be avoided. Urinary alkalinizing agents (acetazolamide, some thiazides) increase the concentration of the non-ionized species of the amphetamine molecule, thereby decreasing urinary excretion. Both groups of agents increase blood levels and therefore potentiate the actions of amphetamines. TIME (HOURS)
Also in the view of amphetamines it is nothing like those found on the street and sadly so as the meth found will undoubtedly bring you up, it seem to lack the focus of the combination of the amphetamines offered by Adderall. For those looking to the street for their fix Iâ(TM)d urge you to give up the expensive and non productive habit, Sleepless nights and worn out bodies, and talk yourself into some disease.
Ritalin is the most popular. It is used mostly for treating children. Its generic form is methylphenidate or MPH. Studies have shown that MPH is up to 30% less effective than the brand name drug, Ritalin. It can cause tics in children. Those who take Ritalin do not develop tics. Ritalin begins to work within 20 minutes after you take it, and lasts up to 4 hours. An extended-release form of Ritalin, Ritalin SR, has been developed, but how long the drug lasts still varies among individuals. Class action lawsuits against the manufacturer of Ritalin, Novartis, have been dismissed in Texas and California. In both cases, the judges found that the plaintiffs had not shown sufficient evidence that Novartis conspired with psychiatrists to "overprescribe" Ritalin.
Dexedrine is second most common to Ritalin in use for treating ADD. It is used mostly for treating adolescents and adults. The generic form of Dexedrine, dextroamphetamine sulfate, is considered inferior to the name brand, and not as long-lasting. Dexedrine begins to work 30 minutes after you take it, and lasts about an hour longer than Ritalin. Dexedrine is listed in the PDR (Physician's Desk Reference) under "diet control" drugs; thus your insurance company may not cover it for treating ADD.
Cylert is the third most common stimulant for treating ADD. The generic name of Cylert is pemoline, but no generic drug is available. Cylert begins to work an hour after you take it, and you must take the medication for 1-2 weeks before you feel the full therapeutic effect. You should not skip doses, or go off Cylert "cold turkey". Dosages are must be gradually increased and decreased by your doctor. Cylert is more expensive than Ritalin or Dexedrine, and has a higher incidence of side-effects, such as insomnia and appetite suppression. There is also a possibility of liver damage.
Adderall, formerly Obetrol, is a newer stimulant, approved by the FDA in 1996. There is no generic. Adderall is a combination of Dextroamphetamine and Amphetamine; its
People talk shit behind your back all the time, don't they? You must hate your life for knowing that you're such a complete waste of space with no real friends.
Well, I don't have ADDHD, but if something bores/annoys me I have to be threatened/coerced into it. I do the boring parts of jobs last, and have quit really boring jobs, but I find I can handle really boring shit for short periods if I'm being payed, or threatened(tax deadline).
But when something agravatingly dull has to be done I go get exercise first...when I'm burned out from exercise enough to be running at half speed I can handle brain-dead things better.
I exercise anywhere between 12-20 hours a week:)
This is my final post onn the subject but first
How have you coped with ADHD, and how have you found it affect your work performance? Do you object to having ADHD?
First stop labeling yourself as a victim, and learn to understand how your mind works. So you easily get bored, you dont really find your job all that entertaining, you arent motivated to go to work.
Ok, heres the solution, focus on being the best at your job, say your job is to type in data as data entry, well yes I know this is a boring as hell job, but you have to keep your mind active, you arent the kinda person who likes to sit still, focus on doing your job better than anyone else, focus on entering the data in as fast as possible, challenge yourself, make a game out of it.
Thats one option.
Another option which is more drastic, quit your job, get a job which is alittle more mentally taxing. Become a programmer, you wont have time to space out if your mind is always busy, keep your mind busy, however make sure whatever you pick while mentally taxing is also somewhat enjoyable.
Do not become a programmer if you do not enjoy problem solving, if you enjoy it you can make a game out of it, it can become entertaining, competitive, and fun.
Overall, ritalin is not the solution, you will ALWAYS have ADHD if you hide behind pills, labels, and make yourself a victim, the only cure for ADHD is accepting the fact that you get bored easily, or that you are lazy, and deciding to change your thinking process.
Changing the way you think takes years, and it happens slowly, so start off learning to focus on things you love to do, spend a few hours playing video games or on the net if you love doing these things, then expand on that, make it 5 hours, then 10, then 12, until you can spend around 12 hours non stop doing one thing.
Once you manage to do this, THEN you use this ability to focus on other less entertaining tasks, and over time, you'll be able to do anything for 12 hours straight, even watch paint dry.
You just have to practice focusing, your brain is setup in such a way that it gets better at focusing and concentrating when you do it more often, pills actually will prevent your brain from ever rewriring itself to deal with your lack of focus.
Try to deal with your lack of focus by teaching your brain to focus on things for long periods of time, it may be difficult at first but eventually you'll become good at it.
Chances are you already know how to focus and choose not to focus on certain things because they are "boring". If thats the case you can change your job, or learn to do things which are boring.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
ADHD is not a disease in my opinion, its just people refusing to do things they arent interested in.
;)
While that may be true, opinions count for jack shit in science. You ought to look up the statistics related and try to find bias and other problems. See how the numbers speak to your opinion. Also actually find out the science behind the drug.
And if you indeed find that Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder is just an attribute typical of lazy people, pass me some pills.
ADHD is a symptom of bad parenting. Letting children take mind-alerting drugs is a case of bad parenting.
I have ADD and have for most of my life (though I was diagnosed at 21, about five years ago). I have tried many things to help with that, and found two that make a HUGE positive difference in my ability to focus:
- Adderall
- Marijuana
Both work best in the lowest dose that you feel an effect from, and they work well in combination (kinda counterintuitive, but it's true!). I have an "off the record" doctor's reccomendation for the latter, and an actual legal prescription for the former. (Here in the U.S., the government basically terrorizes and/or destroys the life of those who advocate the use of drugs that the government doesn't want people using - so my doctor was willing to give his approval, but nothing written.)
I cannot reccommend the marijuana solution highly enough. As long as you are careful to be _doing_ what you want to accomplish, you will have a much higher level of interest and dedication to the task, and not be nearly as distracted by other things (as long as they aren't people - for some reason people are still a huge distraction).
FYI, I am a programmer, and have coded up about two hundred programs of various using MJ for enhanced concentration / creativity, and dozens with Adderall and/or the combination.
It is possible to treat ADHD without medication. The people at The Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studiescan help.
-- Rolf Lindgren, cand.psychol
Speed actually causes psychological disease. Look at the side effects. Some side effects cause psychological disease for your lifetime! If you really want to forget speed try checking cortisol levels. You may be surprised. Then read my web site. Instead of speed I used deglycerrized licorice in the mornings to raise cortisol, adrenal cortical extract during the day to cause adrenal tissue regeneration, and SERIPHOS or phosphatidylserine to low cortisol at night and aid sleep. I don't have ADD anymore.
ADD & ADHD Research - Search for the Origin
It's an earlier adaptation. :-) (But hey, some video games work well for ADHD kids.)
coolgeek pointed to Thom Hartmann's books, which make the analogy of ADHD as being a useful trait for hunter-gatherers, as opposed to farmers for whom it's not so useful. And then in between there were factory workers, which is a lot of what the "everybody sit in rows and do the same things at the same time" style of schools are really good for. Offices, TVs, and Cars are a couple of social revolutions after that
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I took ritalin for a while, and then some welbutrin. I found though that the medications limited my personality and my ability to focus intensly on the things i enjoyed.
I found that rather than helping me, the pills took away that which made me so great.
My only suggestion, is try using it to your advantage. In the eyes of people who don't have it, its a desease, but for us, its some fairly crazy abilities. Nothing supermanish thou. but still.
Good luck!
Uhm, sounds exactly like me ? Although I am quite sure that I don't have ADHD. Are there any ADHD ratings ? Like having ADHD for 40% or really having troubles (ADHD 100%) ?
The cure for ADHD is to force yourself to sit down and concentrate.
No one says its easy or fun. I myself cant handle caffeine because it makes me nervous and unstable.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Massive amounts of excercise for like 3 hours until I'm exhausted, then I can deal with the rest of the 12 hours coding.
Also I try and keep distractions to a minimum, or I can't focus.
God spoke to me
I felt a personal need to reply to this posting, as it mentions many things I have tweaked within the last six months. Throughout my life, most of my symptoms persisted of bouts of hyperactivity per day including super-human concentration, followed by huge crashes and lapses of concentration, and the complete ability to think, with extreme anxiety thrown into the equation. Just within the last year have I fully noticed the mood swings, and how low I could get in the winter months, being in Canada around Toronto area -- similar in geographic location to Detroit and Buffalo.
1998 - added the minor things, like multi-vitamin, extra B vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin E, ginkgo biloba, this was about 4 years ago, and these additions just barely helped me cope. Sleep was still a great issue, with it normally taking two hours to go to sleep at night
1999 - added melatonin to the mix, nightly took 3mg, switched jobs, quit working at a systems integrator (tech work, systems and network support on the road) to join a chain of long-term care homes as their regional technical support
Fall 2001 - started seeing a "naturopath", drastically changed diet, followed "Blood Type Diet", recommended from the book "Eat Right for Your Type", amazing results, super high energy (probably a manic episode), but still the anxiety and sleeping issues persisted, added Alpha Lipoic Acid to assist the liver and as a potent antioxidant
Winter 2001 - added 5-HTP, fairly high doses, around 500mg per day
Spring 2002 - cut down on the 5-HTP, limited it to 200mg per day, added Piracetam, thinking clearer than ever
March 2002 - went to a corporate conference, ate all of those sweets and stuff that they give you that weren't on my diet, experienced the worst brain fog in my life, saw my chiropractor the next day for an adjustment, got in a conversation about feeling "fogged out", he suggested CLA, amazing results, eliminated the fog!
Summer 2002 - cut down 5-HTP to 150mg per day, added L-Tyrosine to the mix, it gave me more of my personality back, strongly recommended over stimulants, as it helps long-term even after cessation of usage
Fall 2002 - blood type diet slips really hard, the 5 pints a day are getting in the way of it. . . at this point, not taking any 5-HTP or melatonin, flying really high, going out all of the time, getting 4 - 6 hours sleep per night, have never thought clearer in my life. Started further extensive reading on 5-HTP, Tyrosine, mood disorders, ADD / ADHD, bipolar, etc., had inklings I was cyclothymic, a mild version of bipolar disorder
December 2002 - had been going downhill for the last bit of November, honestly thought there was a more serious problem, anxiety flared up again, saw a doctor, started on Paxil at 10mg per day, zapped all of the life out of me, dropped it down to 5mg per day, ceased taking 5-HTP due to concerns of potential serotinin syndrome or overload with SSRI
Christmas 2002 - crashed out completely, nasty family Christmas sucked all of the life out of me, I had been going downhill for the month of December
Mid January 2003 - Paxil was not performing for the depression, I had since stopped taking anything to change mood, such as Tyrosine, 5-HTP, started on 750mg per day of Depakote/Epival, took a real edge off, minimized long-term mood swings and mood / energy level changes in the day
February 2003 - the first doctor didn't agree I should be on Paxil, as it didn't address the attention symptoms, so he cut it out, and added Effexor SR in it's place, an SSNRI (Selective Serotonin Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor) at 37.5 per day for a week, and then 75mg for three weeks
Late February 2003 - feeling so flatlined it's not even funny, no desire for anything remotely social, have been at home now for two weeks straight not moving off the couch, getting up only when desperately needed for work, not returning any phone messages, voice mail box full!
March 2003 - recontinued the Paxil at 5mg, much more personality back, sold my house, moved back in with my parents (lovely...
Yep, I have it. I prefer to think of it as "Attention Distribution Difference". The level of attention remains constant, it's just distributed over a wider area.
Tell me, do you have a dozen or more simultaneously unfinished projects, all inching their way to completion?
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
This is 100% BULLSHIT!!!!!!!
ADD/HD folk have a natural tendency to self-medicate as their brain is constantly crying out for stimulation. This may initially start with caffiene and cigarettes and progress through marijauna and other "HARD" drugs.
Now, you must remember that your dealing with a segment of people who untreated tend to gravitate towards substance abuse. Studies have been done regarding how ADDers faired when treated with stimulant medication. They found that those treated with stimulants were FAR LESS LIKELY to engage in elicit drug use than untreated ADDers.
See www.chadd.org
The thing about eating healthy is cool. Caffiene does indeed cause a "buzz" that turns into a drain. And eating large amounts of simple carbo-hydrates does lead to energy drains that can mimic the symptoms of genuine ADD.
But the idea that you can wrap this up and explain away all ADD symptoms is pretty BS.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
I speak from experience, Its not a matter of opinion.
Now, it might just be something people grow out of, or that just be the case with me.
I do know that you'll never solve the problem with pills, I know that much.
People with ADHD could just be kids who find school boring, lets see they dont sit still,they dont pay attention, they dont focus on the class, they talk in class
oh now suddenly they have ADHD? NO!! THEY ARE BORED OUT OF THEIR MINDS
You can label it as ADHD, but ask anyone with ADHD or who was diagnosed with ADHD if they found school "Fun"
If you can find one person with it who actually thought school was fun but couldnt concentrate in class, well then I'll believe you.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
You are dead wrong. In fact, you are an idiot.
Please do not mistake ADHD as something to be brushed aside, it is indeed a well documented and legitimate medical condition.
I would agree that many cases are misdiagnosed, but to belittle someone as "lazy" just shows your ignorance. I hope this doesnt happen to anyone you love.
Play to your strengths or try to change your hand. Stop being so indecisive! It's not like the drugs are permanent. Find a state of mind that suits you and use its strengths and weaknesses to your best advantage. Everyone's different so it's pretty much up to you to decide if you prefer the mental static and the difficult-to-control focus or the side effects from the assorted drugs that you can use to bring that under control. At least you're not suicidally depressed or a paranoid schizophrenic, so count your blessings.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Ok, when I first heard about using EEG Bio Feedback I was a bit skeptical, but it works. You don't need drugs and this is a fix, not a bandaid. You can check it out and see if there is someone in your area.
http://www.eegdirectory.com/
It has worked where other things have failed. Some call it a god send. I know I'm harping about it, but it is really worth a try, or at least a look into.
Think of it this way:
Linux is to Microsoft as EEG Bio Feedback is to drugs.
I wish you posted links. This is probably very informative, but I think I missed the message.
ADHD can be hard to distinguish from giftedness
I was classified "gifted" by the time I was four years old. Everybody talked about my "great potential", but nobody could offer me the opportunity to learn at my own pace. I retreated into books for much of my childhood, since they would let me absorb knowledge quickly, and I could skip between topics as my attention moved.
Are there gifted people who do not have these traits? Are most people with these traits considered gifted?
subtle distinctions
Please post a reply with more information. I am interested.
ADHD is an impairment uniform across environments
The last D is for Disorder. The reason the doctors preferred not to give me drugs is because they felt my condition benefited my life more than it hurt, so it was not a disorder.
except where ADHD itself has survival value, namely combat and settling new territory
I do not think of programming as combat; it could be considered new territory. In today's world, where programmers can make much money, and the bank account is one of the chief indexes of your ability to survive, then ADHD may "have survival value." But since it hurts my ability to reproduce, it is also bad for survival of my genes.
Off-topic: Actually, I have had many opportunites to have a family within or without wedlock, but I keep deciding against permanent relationships with the women. Part of the reason is their inability to deal with my focusing on many things at one time. They believe "focus" implies only one train of thought; I am either thinking about something or not thinking about it. Maybe I only "focus" when I am "in the zone", although I often program with a guitar in my lap and a book opened next to me.
giftedness is temperamental and choosy of its environment
I am not certain what this means. I excelled at math, science, computers, music, drawing, painting, sculpture, care for animals, construction, many sports, and more. I realize others are more focused in their talents, but I do whatever seems fun, and tend to be really good at it.
Short attention span is not ADHD, that would be called slow learning instead.
I do not have a short attention span. I just focus on many things at once.
Distractability is not ADHD
Same concept. Although I must take great care to keep conversations on one track at a time, or I will say three sentences at once, one on each topic we are discussing, or on a new topic that occurred to me during the conversation. When I am excited, I go into overdrive and interrupt myself. The spoken language does not allow data transfer anywhere near the speed new ideas occur to me. Conversations with me can be difficult for most people to handle. To survive in the business world, I have learned to censor myself. While talking about one topic, I often take notes on other topics so I can remember what the other person has not heard yet.
neither is boredom
I never feel bored. I just focus on something new. Although my employers and girlfriends are great about noticing my lack of interest for me.
neither are narrow focuses and passions.
I do not have narrow focuses or passions. Even my computer knowledge has great breadth: business processes, hardware, software, networking, administration, programming in many languages. I work based on the highest paid niches, but the knowledge of everything else adds value.
ADHD is a neurological condition of physical unhibition when distracted; it impairs comparison of impulses and reflexes with the higher level planning located elsewhere in the brain. See the Sci. Am. article by Barkley, September 1998.
Again, could you clarify this?
I do not know what "unhibition" means. Was it a typo?
It seems to say that the ability to plan your thoughts is derailed easily: that I ignore my plans for my time when something new attracts my focus, which seems accurate.
Is the article available online?
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
Has anyone tried anything like Gingko, etc? I guess that really isn't good for the problem since it's an overactive brain, gingko might make it worse, heh. What about marijauna, then?
A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with. - Tennessee Williams
Since I never even take aspirin and already had to live with AHDH for 29 years before I even realized there was a name for my behavior and had arranged with a more or less fitting lifestyle, I had/have strong resentments against taking any drugs. To handle some of the problems I use some of the following tricks:
Since I started being self-employed (again) I try to simulate the office.
memomo: free web based language trainer DE-EN-ES-FR-IT
So many people have posted here admitting to being ADHD/ADD that it really makes you wonder...
/. more likely to have ADHD/ADD? (because they can't stay focused on their work, maybe?)
1) Are those who are inclined to post to
2) Is it being waaayyyy over diagnosed?
3) Is it really a disorder at all or is it just that different people are 'put together' in different ways and those who don't conform to our social norms must have a disorder?
It just seems like another way for the drug companies to profit. For those with ADHD or ADD: How did you get the diagnosis? Did you tell your doctor that you thought that you might have ADHD or did the doctor notice something about you and then dig further?
I recall seeing a PBS documentary on the life of Ansel Adams a few months back. As a child he couldn't learn in the classroom environment - today he would have been labeled ADHD. His father, however felt that little Ansel was bright so he took him out of school and taught him at home. As the World's Fair was being held in San Francisco around this time, Ansel's father bought him a season ticket to the World's Fair and Ansel spent most days there - his father figured he was learning more at the fair than he would have in school, which is probably true. Ansel then took an interest in the piano and his father arranged for lessons - he eventually became a very accomplished pianist. Later on he got into photography and the rest is history. Nowadays, the young Ansel Adams would have been medicated and probably would not have accomplished the things he did.
My post has meandered all over the place, gee, now I wonder if I've got ADD?
I am not a Doctor (armchair or otherwise). All I can do is tell you what my personal experience has been.
... I'm severely prone to distraction when unmedicated, and medication *did* make a huge difference in terms of raw ability to concentrate in some environments. The difference was so pronounced that it was very clear my dosage was not maintaining its effect for the full duration as prescribed. My doctors monkeyed with the dosage a bit and found a pretty good point ...
... For a while I wrote that off, but eventually began to feel that it was a sign of my developing something of a speed habit. I confess it concerns me that there might be some number of children out there who are being fed Ritalin and not quite able to identify or aritculate those sorts of issues for their doctors. For their sake I hope I'm wrong.
... I continued to study on my own ... I find it much more rewarding and generally more useful than a lot of what I was getting in school anyway. Nothing is certain in the current climate, but I feel like I'm pretty well established in my field despite the lack of formal education.
... Some of my best inspiration comes when my mind is meandering around on its own ... And when I need to, I can work to reign it in and tackle the task at hand.
I was diagnosed as ADHD about 10 years ago right after I started college. I was initially prescribed Ritalin, and gave it a go. First, I will say that the difference in a medicated me in the classroom vs. an unmedicated me is pretty pronounced
After a while though, the effect of the occasional slip in dosage began to feel worse than not being medicated. If I forgot to take my meds on time, or worse, let my prescription lapse for a bit, I got extremely irritable
I discussed the situation with my Doctor, though, and she felt I should try different meds. I followed her advice and tried something else. Unfortunately I can't recall anymore what exactly she prescribed me. Whatever it was took approximately two weeks to build up to a maintainable level, and worked wonderfully. I was on a pretty consistent clear-headed level, without feeling the ups and downs of the Ritalin.
But then the medication I was prescribed was pulled due to (as I understood it) evidence of it causing liver damage. At that point, I decided to evaluate life without the meds for a little while. I learned a lot about my (real or imagined, judge as you like) issues through the process of diagnosis and initial treatment, and took a crack at applying that knowledge to school and work. I came to the conclusion at some point that a traditional classroom environment isn't all that great for me, and fortunately found myself in a field (and, better, a boom in said field) where I could make a go of it without completing a degree
So I guess at the end of it all, I just learned how to cope with myself. I learned that I'm wired a bit differently than normal people (tongue firmly planted in cheek). But I feel pretty strongly that what some people classify as distractability or lack of focus can be a real asset when properly harnessed
Well I was first diagnosed with add in 3rd grade. My long time neighbor and first time teacher noticed something wrong in class and had a son who had adhd. Now I never had the hyperactive part, but I know I am a different person without ti. Tried going off of it for a semester at college and grades plummeted from a 3.00 gpa to a 1.00 gpa. And i studied the same amount of time and tried groups, well I was in denial for part of it and didnt want to face the fact, and then I realized moving out that maybe the drugs had something to do with it.
Been using the time release concerta and it seems to work for me. Also on another note the doctor I go to is a pediatrition that used ritilan as a sleep aid in pre-med and saw grades soar, then went off it in med school cause of stricter things and found that if he really enjoyed his work he could concentrate, everything else was shit, but pediatrics he could do. Later when ritalin was better understood he found out that he himself had add, he has tried many times to go off it and found out that he always works better overal with it.
Thought that everyone should know some more
*raises hand*
I loved class. Especially biology. And I drew through the whole class. Hardly listened to the teacher.
ADHD is a real condition, and one that I myself have. Calling it a disorder however is not accurate. It is not a disorder for someone to have strengths in some areas and weaknesses in another. That is just human nature.
Most of the people who actually have a problem because of it are usually dealing with problems caused by other people, not by ADHD itself. You can add me into that catagory. When I was growing up I had to deal with my parents and doctors and later the schools telling me that there was something wrong with me. Try telling a sixth grader that he has brain damage and see how he responds. Luckily for me drugs like Ritalin had some particularly nasty side effects and were abandoned very early on. I was able to go through school drug-free instead of doped up.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and in a normal classroom environment ADHD types tend to squeak loudest of all. All because we're uncomfortable with sitting and doing nothing, or sitting and doing something that doesn't benefit us intellectually. Don't expect me to sit and study something I already know just because everyone else is so stupid that you have to base their grades on busywork instead of mastery of the material. Obviously there are times when you must sit down and trudge through something that isn't fun, or interesting. The point is that basing an educational system off of doing that day in and day out is a disservice to everyone. It is the reason why I call schoolteachers glorified babysitters. What else do you call someone who is paid tens of thousands a year to watch other people's kids all day? Now that is not to say that some learning does not take place or that there aren't truly good teachers out there. All I'm saying is that the way that schools are structured tends to encourage babysitting and discourage actual education. Lets just say that I've got unresolved issues where my grade and high school education is concerned.
ADHD is something that must be dealt with, and putting someone on drugs isn't dealing with it. You deal with it by finding strategies to maximize on the strengths and gifts that ADHD bestows and avoid or minimize the impact of the corresponding weaknesses. The more someone with ADHD can master self-discipline, the less these weaknesses are going to affect them.
Also ADHD is not some new thing that spontaneously arose with the advent of its classification. Rather it is something that has existed in humanity for countless generations. If it wasn't something that was an advantage in some way, it would have been bred out of the gene pool. The fact that it exists and is so prevalent strongly suggests that it is simply a normal genetic variation, like having red hair vs. having brown hair. The same is true of dyslexia. It too tends to bestow heightened abilities in some areas while simultaneously hindering someone in other ways.
Everyone is familiar with the stereotype of the person who has good verbal reasoning skills but doesn't do so well with mathematics. As far as I know, no one has classified them as having MDD, or Math Deficit Disorder. The flip side to that are people like my grandfather who is so good at math that it's spooky but for whom writing anything is an ordeal. No one has catagorized him as having VSDD or Verbal Skills Deficit Disorder. The reason why is that these differences are not seen as being abnormal. Then of course there are people like me who have a near equal level of ability in both mathematics/logic and verbal areas. No one tells me that I'm abnormal because I'm good with both numbers AND words.
The truth is that ADHD is a condition that creates problems for the people who DON'T have it. Those of us who do, don't have a problem. We've lived all our lives with it and are aware of where our strenghs and weaknesses are, just like everyone else. Our problems begin when we're introduced into environments that don't play upon our strengths and instead highlight our weaknesses. If the normal school environment played up
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
The parent post is very informative, but if you ever think (especially after reading this Slashdot thread) you might want to get diagnosed for ADD/ADHD, please DO NOT READ the parent post. Seeing this list may influence your view of yourself such that it may affect the accuracy of your diagnosis.
It is also important to remember that everyone has many of these traits to some level, but those diagnosed with ADD/ADHD from this list will have at least six of them to a higher level than the average, "normal" person. This level is determined by the person doing the evaluation, such that it is significant, and has existed for some time (at least six months, but a good evaluator will look for traits since early childhood).
/If you can find one person with it who actually thought school was fun but couldnt concentrate in class, well then I'll believe you. /
Me. I've just been diagnosed with ADHD, and I loved school. Hell, I loved school so much I did pretty well, and ended up at MIT...and before you say I liked high school with ADHD because I managed to do really well (unlike most high school students with ADHD) then I'd point out I'm having a ridiculously hard time with MIT...but I still love it there.
So there. It's not a "lazy gene", nor necessarily even a disability. It's just a different way of absorbing information.
-amysarah
I've found Gary Null to have a lot of good info on health and ADHD. www.garynull.com My wife found www.feingold.org to be help.
Recentially I had become very depressed, I was unsure why, I would just become angry at everything. I then found out about something called the "Elimation diet". It is primerially aimed at people who suffer from asthma and ADD/ADHD, but the diet can help people with many issues in some cases. What it does is remove foods that people can react to placing you on a fairly restrictive diet. After about two weeks or so on the diet, you can usually tell if you think that food intollerances was causing the issue. If there is no improvment, little lost. I was very supprised what caused my depression when I narrowed it down to the chemical "amines" which naturally occurs in many foods, such as bananas and also in chocolate even meat that isn't that fresh. Now I just try to avoid foods with this chemical and I've noticed a huge improvment in myself.
We need to look at how we diagnose ADD/ADHD. This is currently done via 2 sources: teachers and parents. Sure, Billy's bouncing off the walls ... but that's what 7-year old children do when they're bored.
:(
It's unfortunate, but a lot of MD's and PhD's out there have not had psychopharmacology. And it's irresponsible to practice as a psychiatrist without taking at least one course in psychopharm. It is, in fact, downright harmful to patients.
On the bright side, it looks like the poster has taken the time to become educated and look into things a bit - this is good, but the frightening part of it is that I'm certain that there are quite a few members in the field of psychiatry who would be baffled and annoyed by a patient doing this much legwork. In Arizona, at least, there is a push to "fill SOMETHING in for 'Axis Diagnosis', ANYTHING", because that's how they bill.
Unfortunate. If you are diagnosed with ADHD and are considering medication, read up on up/down-regulation and other relevent items from head/neck physiology & neurophysiology.
Sure, I'll get modded down, but that's okay, as this is an absolute epidemic and is not limited to just ADHD. If you *absolutely have it*, seek the best treatment plan for yourself, become educated, and UNDERSTAND what it is you're taking. If your current MD/PhD cannot explain things to you that jive with reputable (Tier-I [like JAP or such] or JAMA) sources, dump him or her and see someone else. If they just go ahead and write a prescription with no clinical work-up, dump 'em. If they don't have a straight-backed wooden chair with arms in their office (a great neuro diagnosis tool, believe it or not!), DUMP 'EM.
Don't be afraid to question, it's YOUR FUTURE.
90% of the ADHD medicine in the world is prescribed to patients in the USA.
Prescribing Ritalin and its ilk shifts the blame from the educators/parents to the child. They can't seem to get the child stimulated in class, so they give him medicine. There's an interesting article about the adverse effects of prescribing stimulants (which these drugs are) to children in the book "Everything You Know Is Wrong." One fact that I was surprised to read was that the rates of cocaine and amphetamine addiction were noticeably higher among adults who were prescribed Ritalin/Adderall/etc. as children. The same portions of the brain are affected with all these drugs.
Marge: Well, I'm not going to give my baby any more dangerous drugs. From now on, it's nothing but fresh air, lots of hugs, and good old-fashioned Ritalin. [hands Bart some Ritalin] Bart: You said a mouthful. [takes pills] [singing to the tune of "Popeye, the Sailor Man"] When I can't stop my fiddlin' I just takes me Ritalin I'm poppin' and sailin', man! [two toots of steam come out his ears]
_________________
I may be compulsivly obsessed about manic depressionSeriously, as with any medication, things are going to react to your body chemistry differently than other people's. Ignore people saying "don't use this, it didn't work for me!", because what fails for them may succeed beautifully for you.
Just make sure you're not a jackass first. Probably around 25% of "diagnosed" ADHD cases are actually just jackasses. Not to downplay the real problem of the other 75%, but just poking fun of the heavy tendency of over-diagnosis of this.
I am shocked and appalled by those who seem to think the answer to everything is to just stick more drugs down their throat. I have ADD myself and have never taken anything for it. I was once recommended I take Ritilyn by a doctor but declined.
Instead I have taken up Tai Chi and it's associated meditation called Qi Kung. I have found it works wonders. It's removed all the bad effects of ADD and given me much more. I have found it to be a huge boost in confidence and actually allow me to work even better than anyone else ADD or not. My other reason for taking it up was because I was getting severly depressed. It had also the same favorable results with that.
I would recommend www.taichiworld.com. The stuff taught by him is the real deal unlike what most Tai Chi tutors teach. You can even download free videos from there to learn it.
I was diagnosed with ADHD (or whatever you want to call it) when I was about 6 years old. It was the only possible answer to the problems I was having, and the diagnosis was decided on after many many hours of many days of tests and observation and psychology sessions.
At that time the choice was given to me how to treat it. To try to treat it through drug usage (ritalen..a drug I can not spell), or to try to learn to cope myself. Despite my young age my parents wanted me to make the decision for myself (of course they didn't want to tell me about Santa Clause since they didn't want to lie to me....so take that as a grain of salt). Being the child I was I heard it could stunt my growth and decided not to do it. This was the best decision I ever made.
Over the last 17 years (23 now) I've been forced to face my ADHD head on and learn to cope with it. A lot of things have helped. One, creating an orginizational structure that I keep standard through everything. I force myself to live by it, keep notes in a certain way, document things the same way every time, put this here, that there, etc, etc. Because I know later on I'm not going to remember, or I'm going to be so nervious or anxious that I'm not going to be thinking, and having everything where it always is as it always is really helps.
Currently I'm a programer for a hospital software manufacturer. I find that I program my best when I'm in the middle of an ADD rush. What happens is my energy level chalks up to high high levels and I start thinking about a few things at once....turn on my headphones to act as white noise barrier between me and everything else (that is a very important step) and then I just zone. I do my best work there, it's all natural, instinctive. Done fast and done well. A part of my brain is totally focused on the code I'm writing and so long as I keep myself distracted enough that it's all I can focus on, I can really get some work done.
This is what helps the most. Another thing that helps is the flexability of my job. I can work remotely and I can work mostly whatever hours I want. So long as I get my work done and work at least 40 hours a week, I can work them wherever I want, whenever I want. So I can choose (and often do) to work at home in my home office where I can control the surrondings and situation. It's much more comfertable for me to get up every 5 minutes to let hte dog out, walk around, stretch, clear my head.
Something that many non ADD'ers don't understand is the brain process of an ADD person. It's hyper, it's frantic, it's non stop (so long as they're not drugged). They're just as smart if not often smarter and more creative than the regular person. The problem is that they can never settle down to one thing. THey keep jumping around in their head from topic to topic, idea to idea. The key is to learn to focus this. I tend to have a few different projects at one time for work. I'll have *all* of them open on my desktop at one time and I'll flip back and forth as my mind wanders from one ot the others. It's not a thing I choose to do. I don't decide "oh hey let's think about project b when I'm working on project a". It just happens so rather than fight it, or get frustrated, or take a break and stop the process, I simply switch and work on b until my mind switches back to a, or maybe over to c.
These are my recomendations anyway, I hope you figure out what works best for you.
- Brian
Brian
I find this fascinating. I have severe ADDhd which has resisted treatment, but I have never tried anything like the method you are describing. I am unfamiliar with many of the compounds described or the "blood" diet. Where would one go to look for such infromation?
I hated the public education system, but I loved college. I still couldn't keep track of what was going on in the classroom. Classes were a formality -- I had to learn everything from books and notes. I now take drugs to treat my ADD and the results are dramatic. I can actually think about a single subject without simultaneously thinking about 5 or 6 unrelated things. I can remember what it is that I'm working on in the first place. Before I started taking drugs, I would frequently start cooking dinner, get distracted with something else midway through, and then suddenly realize that I had food on the stove when the smoke alarms start going off half an hour later. Turning away from the stove to get a can of tomato sauce from the pantry should not result in a person deciding that it's a good time to work on fixing a bug that they found two weeks ago, yet this is the "normal" state of affairs for many people who have ADD. ADD is a pain in the ass and drugs allow me and many other people to function almost normally. I resent the suggestion that ADD is imaginary, the result of simple boredom, or just a sign of outright laziness.
you could get your doctor to let you try zoloft, its got few side effects at a low dose and may have fewer side effects than ridalin. I don't have anything to do with it, other than I've tried it and it might help.
before anybody had heard of ADHD, we had a drug called "ritalin in a stick". It worked so well that nobody I knew growing up had any sign or symptom of ADHD.
Folks, it's a made-up syndrome to line the pockets of doctors and the pharmaceutical industry. You can yell and scream and argue all you want. You can tell your anecdotal stories and cry about your "disease". That doesn't change the fact that it's all about money.
Have you ever noticed that children who can't (won't) pay attention in school have no problems playing a video game for hours or watching some crappy TV show like they were glued to the set?
If you have problems being honest with yourself, how the hell can you be honest with anyone else?
Think about it and then GROW UP.
I personally took Dexedrine for most of my school career, but now I don't take anything (side effects were too awful).
I have trouble staying focused on repetitive tasks, much like anyone does... Not a huge problem as long as I get moved around lots. I can't imagine going back on pills. In my case though I am just ADD and not terribly severe.
Jeremy
Came from the steel toes of my Chief Petty Officers Boondockers.
I still have 4 to 5 trains of thought going at once, but now they all come through crystal clear. Now I can take notes in class, plot my next batch of source code, and check out the chick sitting down the aisle from me.
I guess the Navy forced my brain to adapt. Now I'm multithreaded!
McDoobie
Having been diagnosed with ADHD some 8 years ago, I have seen medication come and go, and have used most of them. Some worked well, others had various side effects, and some didn't help at all. I'm now nolonger medicated, I struggled initialy, but have found coping meathods, like writing everthing down. I still get distracted quite easily and jump from one project to another, but i'm an excellent multi taskers because of my 'problem.'
Conservative estimates put it that 8 to 12% of the population world wide is ADD or ADHD, but some estimates put it as high 15% as many cases go undiagnosed, especialy amoungst girls, who are more likely to cope better, and are not as loud and boustrous..and so go un-noticed.
ADD or ADHD is a chemical imbalace in the brain, and can be some what rectified by the use of medication. As to the cause of this imbalance, scientists are as of yet uncertain although many theories exist.
Many of today's leaders (in business or politics) have been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD, Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, and a few others i can't remember. ADD ADHD can be a blessing, and a curse..I certainly have struggled, it was only through teachers who were informed about my condition that i made it through high school, in the end with extremely good grades when i wasn't expected to make it out of the 8th grade, but alot of blood sweat and tears were involved. The best thign you can do is to arm yourself with as much infomation as possible, but please use a bit of common sense (although it isn't all that common) and avoid the sensationalised stuff that the internet so often provides. There is no cure for ADD ADHD as of yet, only treatment meathods.
Andrew Shaw
oh i'm writing this as an anonymous coward because i can't remember my login!
Its unfortunate that I have posted so late to this thread as hardly anyone will read this, but alas...
I was "diagnosed" with ADD when I was 8 years old. The doctor prescribed methylphenidate (brand name: Ritalin) as the solution to the problem. My parents felt that the drug would increase my concentration and help me do better in school. The following school year, I was placed in a class with a teacher who actually gave a damn about whether or not we were learning and cared about the children. I began receiving good marks in school and my parents thought the drugs were helping.
The following year, I was placed in a class with a teacher who probably couldn't give a damn about anything except a paycheck. I dreaded school and did very poorly. I took the medicine for the next 2 years before I was old/smart enough to read about what I was actually taking. I decided to quit taking the Ritalin and found that I did excellent in courses where I cared about what I was learning.
Looking back now, I can see that amphetamines are by no means a solution to any "attention deficit disorder". I am not a doctor, but I would call attention deficit disorder the typical boredom that all of us feel from repetitive tasks that don't stimulate our minds. My parents debated getting my younger brother "tested" for ADD/ADHD when he was doing poorly in school. I recommended that they reconsider giving him ANY kind of drug to change his behavior. I see hypocrisy in the quest for a drug-free America while drugs are being prescribed to fix the weird social quirks we all have. What makes one drug different from another, besides some legal distinction? I digress.
The long and the sort of it is that I would recommend everyone who is considering taking Ritalin or any similar drug to fully research the effects of it, just as you would any other substance you would ingest.
I see my shadow changing, stretching up and over me...
...being diagnosed? I show strong signs of having ADHD, but have avoided seeing someone about it. Is the money spent on doctors visits and druges, and he fact that you are letting other people know about it worth the benefits? I've learned to cope with it for the most part, but it's still quite frustrating when it takes me eight hours to study for a test when it should have taken no more than two.
Are there any recommendations other than going and being diagnosed? What can be done on a more transparent level to help cope with this?
So to start with, cut the crap. No junk food, no fizzy pop, no processed sugar. Eat fresh fruit and vegetables, you know, real food. Make sure you get your recommended five helpings a day of those. Buy organic if possible. Oh, I'm afraid you'll have to ditch the coffee too, switch to herbal tea, or fresh fruit juice or just plain old water. Well that's for starters, do some googling (see below) to find more specifics for what other changes in your diet can help.
There's been some research done in the UK on diet in children. One study (sorry couldn't find a link) found a dramatic difference after only two weeks of changing their school lunch from junk to proper food. This was so successful that a number of schools are now making this a permanent change. As an aside on this, a teacher friend of mine says it's well known by teachers in general that school children are more difficult to handle after lunch, ie after their shots of junk food and sugar!
Now, having said all that, this may still not help, but it is certainly worth a try. If you can, get your family to change their diet in the same way. This will make it easier for you, and you'll all be healthier for it.
Good luck!
BTW, if you want to try googling for "adhd diet", go to google.co.uk first, and select 'pages from the UK'. Ritalin is not quite so common there as in the USA, and there've been some studies on diet, so you get useful hits more quickly (I know, I tried it).
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Um, excuse me but citing some fact-free extremist websites brought to us by people hawking competing treatments to Ritalin along with a site funded by $cientology (who is opposed to all mental health treatments solely because they are competitors to $cientology) isn't exactly credible evidence to support your claims of Ritalin being "pure evil".
There have been many real double-blind peer-reviewed studies conducted by different scientists in different countries (including ones not funded by evil drug companies, or black helicopter-infested government agencies) over a long period of time that support Ritalin as a valid treatment for many ADHD patients.
Sorry, but anecdotal stories about whacked out rock n roll stars killing themselves supposedly because their parents gave them Ritalin when they were a kid carry about as much weight as those inspirational Christian anecdotes my mother forwards me. Did you hear the one about the little girl who rode her bike off a cliff but was found uninjured at the bottom. She said an angel came and flew her down safely... must be true! (however, I'll wait for the peer-reviewed, double-blind study before taking an action item on that fact).
I'm genuinely happy you've found something that works well for you. I agree that ADHD is over-diagnosed. I agree that no one treatment is going to be right for everyone. But please don't perpetuate the incorrect notion that Ritalin is "pure evil" just because it didn't work for you or some others (citing shrill 'scare' sites on the web from Ritalin competitors and a bizarre cult does not add useful data to the discussion). The fact is that Ritalin does work for many people and for some, it is the only thing that works.
if you are doing so well in school, and you can concentrate well enough to get into MIT, please tell me why you feel you have ADHD? You concentrate better than the average person if you manage to do all the crazy math stuff they do at MIT, I'm going to tell you congrats because I myself cant handle the math stuff.
I agree its a different way of thinking, I'm just saying people shouldnt think of themselves as disabled, or flawed because thats the way its presented. People with ADHD have something wrong with them, or people with ADHD arent normal, when its not true.
People with ADHD are normal in every way, the only difference is, people with ADHD prefer to multitask and get bored focusing on one thing for too long.
This can be used to a persons advantage if they enjoy what they are doing, or it can cause them to never really do something quite right if they hate what they are doing.
You loved school, you did well and ended up in MIT.
Point is ADHD isnt a learning disability as people keep claiming, and I dont really think its some kinda chemical error, its more of a personality trait.
Dont tae the lazy gene thing literally, I'm just proving a point that ADHD is not new, people have been like this for centuries and in the past the label they were given was that they were lazy.
One thing I never hear people consider is that ADHD could be an effect of a higher than average intelligence.
Lets suppose someone has a really high IQ, and their brain is simply going at a pace thats too fast for current methods of teaching to actually compensate, the results could be ADHD.
Consider the fact that "gifted" kids are given that label based on the fact that school is so easy to them that they dont concentrate on it, how is this any different than ADHD.
If something isnt challenging why should a person remain insterested in it for longer than 2 seconds?
I'd like your opinion of what ADHD actually is, the brain disorder crap to me is just that, crap.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I started to see a psychaitrist last summer because of the exact situation that you are claiming doesn't happen- an inability to focus on the things that I am usually very good at and like to do. Initially my doctor and I suspected depression or anxiety disorder. It was only after a few months that she recognized and started treating me for ADD that I started to feel any improvement- and it came fast.
Not everyone with ADD appears to be lazy. I watch very little TV, I have no video games installed on my computer. Instead I spend long hours working, because I have a job in R&D at a small speaker company that provides me with the opportunity to do things that I would find fun anyway. It's a bitch, however, when for no apparent reason concentration just slips away and you have no control over the distractions around you.
Some people have asked how to address this with their employers. I was lucky- my boss is the owner of the company, and I have found ways to make myself to valuable to lose in spite of my quirks. I had no problem telling my boss- it even helped him to understand how to help me to be more productive. Other people in my company knew that I was having some problems, but nobody ever doubted my work ethic. When I told people in my company that that I had ADD nobody was surprised- they saw it as being a sensible explanation for my well known oddities.
I guess that my point, if there is one, would be that not everyone with a diagnosis of ADD uses it as an excuse for their own laziness. That certainly does happen, and many people are misdiagnosed giving the whole idea of ADD a bad rap. However, for many people, (especially those who first get diagnosed later in life) the diagnosis of ADD is a godsend, providing a way to recognize those nagging life problems and a way to learn how to constructively deal with them
See subject...
That cocksucker Michael Sims will censor anything he disagrees with - time he was fired.
Ritalin is meth ? Get your facts straight man! Have you tried 'em both? No ? I thought so.. At least I can say from my own experience that those two are quite different beasts ;)
I have bog standard ADD, and I find it very difficult to concentrate without taking Ritalin.
Even though I score highly on most intelligence tests (around the 150ish mark... and I know IQ tests actually mean very little), and people tell me I'm smart, I find it very difficult to actually get work done.
I'm going to uni, in my 2nd year, and I found that, in first year, I was not having any success @ all, without medication. This year I've been taking it, and the only problem is it's started to give me bad stomach pains.
I find it doesn't really affect my interactions with people or workmates @ all... except occasionally in the Deli where I do casual work, I'll be (say) filling Kebabs, and I'll serve a customer, and instead of going back to the kebabs, I'll start filling the salads, or cleaning the benches. It's not a problem, people mainly find it amusing.
I do worry that when I get a 'Real Job', I'll fall dramatically behind in my work, or never be able to stay on task... I worry about it alot.
When you see trouble, take a look. A Good, long look. Shoot a Gun. And then move on.
too bad rochester's so damn cloudy :-)
I grew up here but I go to college elsewhere
Without qualification. The only difference between you or me, and Mark McGwire is practice. Now that's simple nonsense. I'm over the hill for most professional sports. Those old players who retire just haven't practiced enough I guess. I never said practice was unneccessary, just that there are circumstances where practice is not enough. I'm never going to be a great baseball player, no matter how much I practice. That bothers me not at all. We all have our limitations, and they vary. Practice only goes so far. That was my point, but if you believe otherwise, then I have no interest in arguing with you.
Excuse culture? I ask for no excuse, and make no excuse. I avoided no responsibility. I'm accountable for and satisfied with my life & actions. I said I was working two jobs for years on end. I wasn't complaining. I demonstrated that I didn't live a lazy lifestyle. What I did was discover some ways to change my behavior once I realized my problem wasn't laziness. If those things bother you, well then too bad that you're a busybody. You asked for perspectives and I replied.
You should learn a little more about mental health and the brain. We know more than you realize. You seem to fundamentally misunderstand depression, for instance.
Depression is not severe unhappiness. Many depressed people have valid reasons for being unhappy. Certainly cause needs to be addressed. However, the description in the DSM includes attempted suicide.
It's not just that chemical imbalance causes depression, (although there are cases where it is demonstrated that it does) but that when a person is a danger to themselves they require emergency intervention. Fortunately depression often resolves itself within a fairly short time, and drugs can be useful to keep the patient from committing suicide or otherwise aggravating the depression in the short term. Or are those suicides just part of the excuse culture?
Many psychiatric disorders begin to appear in or just following adolescence. Probably your friend is really sick. Maybe by listening to him you could help him with the circumstances he's trying to deal with. A girl? Of course. What else is worth getting depressed over? People matter.
Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
Find a good chiropractor, and ditch the chair(s) that're messing-with your lower-spine.
Ditch carbohydrates ( think similar-to-Atkins-diet, but with soy-oil instead of butter, or, if you're cooking, use light-tasting-olive-oil instead ). Ditching caffeine/sugars is non-optional, unless you want to only-pretend to own your own health. Decaf-coffee has about 4-5% of the caffeine of 'real' coffee, and so it counts, if one's drinking enough, decaf-tea ( Courtlodge decaf's amazing ) can be good.
Ultra-dark when sleeping, so your nervous-system will 'let-go' and permit recovery-sleep.
Quality air/light: make certain you're getting sufficient fresh-air ( fan in window exchanging air directly ), and replace any normal lightbulbs with quartz-halogens, AND replace any 'cool-white' crap tubes with Philips TL-930 ( warm white VERY GOOD Colour Rendition Index tubes ) and TL-950 ( daylight-blue-white, makes one feel more awake, but too many of 'em is harsh/stressful, equally good CRI .. cool-white has about 50% of visible-spectrum, these have 95% and 98% ). I use 4 or 6 TL-930's to every pair of TL-950's per room.
These tubes require RF-balasts, rather than the old/cheap ferro-resonant or 'magnetic' balasts, and come in 4' lengths ( and 3' and 2', but that's it: the "S.A.D.-treating" fluorescent-tubes fixtures are uber-ripoff ). Once you try these tubes, you won't go back to normal lighting: they're that good.
Make yourself do only one thing at once, and re-train one's mind to do one thing wholely, and the extra energy will make you unstoppable.
The strong contrast between saturation in quality light and quality dark will help over-ride the civilized-dissonance you've grown, the chiropractic help will help your nervous-system be open-to operating as it originally would'a, the REAL food diet will un-disintegrate your health/energy, and make the mind-work do-able. Missing one or more leverage helps prevent success, of course.. how much you want to own your life is your determination..
Also check out Beryl Bender Birch's "Power Yoga" as an alternative to their drugs...
Finally also, Betty Edwards ( PhD ) "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" helps train one's nervous-system in new/good ways, and Grace Llewellyn's "The Teenage Liberation Handbook 2e" puts perspective on the validity of one's own experience, against the assertions of "They"... ( it helped me at, oh, 32 or so? it's good )
Messages to/for me ( in me journal )
Is it just me, or does the word "exercise" seem misspelled no matter how you spell it?
Excellent post. Thanks for sharing; it was very insightful.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
It really annoys me when I read about people with hyperactivity who are stuck on Ritalin cos it drugs 'em up, keeps 'em quiet! Treating the symptom is not the solution, instead look to the cause.
For the past 20 years I have kept my own symptoms under control without any pills. This may not be the universal solution but it worked for me, my symptoms were caused by reactions to foot additives and ingredients. By not eating foods containing these ingredients the symptoms stopped, meaning I have been able to get a full set of school qualifications, get an engineering degree and have as sucessful a career as the post-dotcom tech industry can allow.
So do yourself a favour, throw away those pills and cut out crap from your diet. Start with food colourants, particularly azo dyes such as tartrazine (E102 here in Europe), then look at the preservatives, antioxidants and other chemicals the food manufacturers use to sell you low quality food without it looking bad. This goes back a bit but I'm sure it will be still available somewhere, the book I find most useful is called "E for Aditives", written by Maurice Hanssen. Whatever happens, dont let the bastards grind you down. YOU are not the problem, the people who'd like to sweep you under the carpet by giving you pills are!
90% of the people who say this DO NOT have ADHD and will never understand how Ritalin works for ADHDers. Living with ADHD is something non-ADHD'ers will never understand.
Dolemite
__________________________
Save the World! Use a Quote!
Yeah like drugs cure depression, anxiety, aggression, and all other problems?
Drugs dont truely cure anything, they hide problems from people who refuse to understand themselves.
If you have a short temper, you can hide it with drugs all you want, but it eventually builds up and you'll bomb something or shoot everyone up at your job, but learning how to manage your anger without drugs you can cure yourself.
You cannot learn to manage your ADD if you hide from it with drugs.
I hated the public education system, but I loved college.
So did I. So do I.
Classes were a formality -- I had to learn everything from books and notes.
Exactly, and I learn in the same way. Learn to teach yourself if you cannot learn in the structured enviornment.
now take drugs to treat my ADD and the results are dramatic. I can actually think about a single subject without simultaneously thinking about 5 or 6 unrelated things.
Slowing your mind down isnt a cure, you can accomplish the same thing with alcohol, what you dont realize is yes you can use drugs, but these drugs work by slowing your brain down, yes you focus better but you also arent as sharp as you could be.
I can remember what it is that I'm working on in the first place. Before I started taking drugs, I would frequently start cooking dinner, get distracted with something else midway through, and then suddenly realize that I had food on the stove when the smoke alarms start going off half an hour later.
You can either learn how your mind works and adapt the enviornment to suit how you think, or you can hide behind drugs. I'll tell you this, at some point you wont have these drugs, and you wont know how to manage your ADD because you used drugs. The same problem happens with people who dont have their anti depressant drugs.
Turning away from the stove to get a can of tomato sauce from the pantry should not result in a person deciding that it's a good time to work on fixing a bug that they found two weeks ago
You dont have to actually DO what you think. I think like that too, but I dont actually DO everything I think. Learn priorities, do whats most important first. You'll never learn to balance your priorities if you use these drugs because this is something you learn from experience, from actually trying for years to balance your priorities.
et this is the "normal" state of affairs for many people who have ADD. ADD is a pain in the ass and drugs allow me and many other people to function almost normally. I resent the suggestion that ADD is imaginary, the result of simple boredom, or just a sign of outright laziness.
I never said ADD is imaginary, I'm saying you dont need pills, I'm saying you can learn how your mind works and how YOU learn, and take advantage of it.
You say you dont learn from lectures in class? Neither do I alot of the time, but theres usually the book and notes, so it doesnt matter, lets also remember I can record the class on video and audio if I need to. So theres no real excuse for me not to do well, this isnt highschool, if you said it was highschool then I'd say you have a valid point, I struggled in highschool as well.
You can live on drugs all you want, I dont think drugs are the solution to personality traits, I do not believe its a good idea to try so hard to be normal that you cease being you due to these drugs.
These drugs remove you from yourself, if you really took ritalin you know exactly what I'm talking about. You also know that your mind isnt exactly as sharp. Sure you can concentrate, but dont try to act like theres no side effects, the ideal situation is to use your ADD as a strength, because you have ADD your brain functions better at certain things than most people, use this to your advantage.
The world is becoming a place where multitasking people are more valueable than so called normal people, you are in college right? I'll give you s
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Yes, it is something people just grow out of, last I checked about 1/6 (not completely sure of the figures) children with ADHD carry it on to adulthood, which leaves 5/6 who don't.
:P
I am a student teacher, and I have a diagnosed ADHD (unmedicated) in my class, its fairly obvious, he is VERY different to the others...
Me? I'm not ADHD, I actually am just lazy
"Studies with MRIs have been done to compare normal brains with ADD brains while doing various mental exercises. There is a clear difference between the two groups"
The MRI stuff on children is useless students because a childs brain is still developing. Up until the age of about 25, the brain is still growing, your brains final growth happens around the age 18-25, this is when a persons frontal lobes (the very lobes that the MRI studies say are abnormal in ADHD people) happen to mature.
These lobes mature in ADHD people alittle later in some cases, alot of people simply grow out of it, that may be the case with me and maybe not the case with you.
However, its not proven that ADHD is actually a disease, sure a person with ADHD may have a brain that grows slightly differently, this doesnt really prove anything if the brain isnt finished growing when you test it.
Theres alot of childhood features that a person has which they lose as an adult.
The last fact that the victims crowd chooses to ignore is the fact that the human brain is CONSTANTLY rewiring itself. The nodes/connections constantly become more efficient through use.
This means if you do have a problem with your frontal lobes it doesnt really matter, the brain can adapt to this problem by making more connections in another area of the brain which makes up for this, so even if you dont grow out of it, you can learn to change how your brain works.
You can say I'm speaking bullshit but this is absolute fact, everything I say can be backed up by facts, run and do some research on how the brain works, those same people who do these MRI studys on kids state that the adult brain constantly upgrades itself even though physically the adult brain shrinks every year.
So the physical structure of the brain isnt important and cannot be used to measure how efficient the brain is. You also cannot take an MRI of a persons brain as a kid and predict how it will be 10 years later, your brain adapts to use, its no diferent than bodybuilding, someone can take a diet pill, or they can work out, and both people can have the same results. Sure you might have better and faster results with steriods, but the side effects and the fact that you need to keep taking the drug to keep those results might mean its not as good for the long term.
Do some research. I did mine and can post up dozens of URLs if I need to which backs up every single statement or comment(except the lazy gene thing, that was flawed humor)
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If anyone is possibly bipolar, then lay off from the inositol. See the Science News index.
Michael J. Burns
That is the point in time when you call up your doctor and bitch something awful.
I feel much MORE sharp with my meds, thank you so very much.
You won't believe how much easier it is to do math problems when I am able to remember what the fuck I am supposed to be sitting down and doing
For the record, ritalin does seem to generally suck, but that doesn't mean ADHD doesn't exist.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Spell it out with me now.
S-Y-N-O-N-Y-M-S
Personal experience != scientific proof.
Not to mention, I can come up with an equal metric farkload of "personal experience" to counter your "personal experience".
It is a pointless pissing game.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
For the last time I never said ADHD doesnt exist, thats like saying ANGER doesnt exist.
What I'm saying is its something everyone has, and its a personality trait, not really a disease or disability.
Look, you dont focus on one thing at a time, well everyone has episodes of this, you just happen to have more of them than average.
But let me ask you a question, when it comes to computers you use these multitasking abilities of your brain to your advantage dont you? Because you can code, listen to music, chat, play a game or two, and research on google all at once, you have the ability to absorb more information at a time.
Its just like a CPU, if a CPU is designed in a RISC or CISC structure, with a 32bit CPU or 64bit CPU, it doesnt matter, it all matters in how that CPU is used, not how many bit.
If you are a multitasker, use your computers to learn with. Becuase you think of so many things all the time I 'm sure you've used google more than a person who only goes online to search for a specific thing.
So next time you have to learn something for school go to google and research whatever it is you are learning, then read the book, then check your notes, then go to another site.
You can still multitask and think about many things at once, as long as they are on the same subject generally.
As far as math goes, I cant do math myself so I cannot comment on it.
I do know I'm not going to take some pills over it.
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You may want to look in training your cerebellum. The cerebellum is the part of the brain that controls motor skill but also plays a part in organising are thoughts and action. There is a growing body of evidence that some sorts neurological problems are related to an underdeveloped cerebellum.
x .html?defin itions.html~rightn ews/. htmlt ml
I'm / I was dyslexic and for the last 9 months I've been on course of simple exercises (e.g. standing on one leg or spinning round three times and then standing still). Its sounds nuts but there is a good scientific basis for it. The effects are incredible. For someone who thought they had a incurible disorder, I can now do things I only dream of before.
Do a google on "ADHD Cerebellum". Have a look at these people: http://www.ddat.org/
Background articles:
http://studentswholearn.fawco.org/inde
http://www.dyslexiaonline.com/
http://www.dyslexiaonline.com/coverup/index
http://www.dyslexiaonline.com/books/index.h
A little while ago a fellow named "MichaelCrawford" posted a three part article on Kuro5hin describing his experiences with Schizoaffective Disorder. Some of the symptoms he desribed and some of the lengthes he went to treat them were similer to yours. Anyway here's that article. I hope you find that helpful.
"The moment "pride" is lost, "freedom" is also lost." - Ramza.
"Drugs dont truely cure anything, they hide problems from people who refuse to understand themselves."
Tell that to an asthmatic who's just about to die because they can't find their Ventolin inhaler.
You stupid fucking twat.
That was classic intercourse!
Just to prove a point right now. I'm going to tell you how many windows I have open. Lets see I'm surfing 1,2,3,4,5,6, 7, 8, 9 websites all at once, I have 1, 2, 3, 4 chat programs open responding to every msg I get, I have the TV on looking at and listening to TV, I have music playing on headphones next to me.
This is my ideal enviornment.
The computer and electronics, it can scale to your pace, the school however does not, perhaps if schools used more technology, a student could learn about what they want whenever they want, and we wouldnt have a problem with ADHD anymore.
If you could learn anything whenever you wanted like you can at home would school really be so bad? You just dont like spending 2 hours doing one thing.
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I went through a period of clinical depression earlier this year and I can honestly say that the most depressing thing was being depressed. It's a bitch!
I have asthma too, the inhaler does not CURE asthma, it simply removes or hides the symptoms.
A cure would be more like a vaccine which prevents you from ever having the symptom again.
When I say pills dont cure, its because they dont, you have to keep taking them for the rest of your life to manage your problems, What I am saying is ADHD is a problem which you can manage without pills, its not as easy to manage without pills but its possilble. Just like you can manage depression and pain without pills.
Why do people want to take the easy way out?
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And here I have spent my entire life thinking this was just normal behaviour and I was just a little eratic because I was a programmer. Maybe I'm just an undiagnosed ADHD? In fact, I'd even say it was a useful way for a programmers mind to be, kinda intuitive in a way and great for getting "the whole picture" before you start on details.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Article and rest of the publication
ADHD, What They Aren't Telling You
I fully understand that you have a problem with your attention and I am not trying to say that you don't, but the question is whether taking the drugs you get prescribed by your doctor is the right thing to do if you weigh the benifits of the drugs against its negative side effects. The above links might help you make a more qualified decision about this, as I don't believe doctors tell the whole truth about ADHD and its drugs when they prescribe it.
A few years ago I had a friend who was taking Ridilin. Being a person that believes medicine should always be the last option, I suggested he ask his doctor what other methods would help him with his ADHD. Since when I was younger I had an attention problem and after I started excersizing regularly it disapeered, I suggested he ask about something like that as well.
The doctor told him that he could try it out and he started excersizing and eating a lower carbohydrate (and much lower simple sugar) diet...and low and behold, his ADHD lessened substatially without medicine.
Your mileage may vary and IANAD, but if you can help your problem without medicine you will probably be better off in the long run. If it doesn't help the ADHD, excersize and a healthy diet will at least not hurt you : )
From 2004 onwards in the Netherlands, you cannot get a prescription for Ritalin via you GP/family doctor anymore. You can only get a prescription via a medical specialist. They do this to prevent children with false-positive ADHD diagnose getting ADHD admitted because of teh unknown long term effects of Ritalin.
Dutch link: http://nu.nl/news.jsp?n=162962&c=10
Theres no scientific proof that ADHD even exists. This is all experienced based. People with ADHD reporting to so called experts, experts watching people with ADHD and conducting studies and tests.
Theres no true fact proof that ADHD is a physical disease. Its not even proven to be a disorder even though its treated like one.
Look, Anger could be considred a disorder, a person whos angry could be angry because of physical reasons, social reasons, or the enviornment, but if I were to declare Anger as a learning disability, and say "Well student X is always angry, this student cant learn, this student needs medication, this student needs to be studied"
This does not solve the persons problem. Please tell me why a person with a short temper is considered "normal" however someone with ADHD has something wrong with them.
Also please explain to me why people who have short tempers just need to take anger management classes, while a person with ADHD must go on all these meds?
Its the SAME kinda problem, I consider ADHD a personality trait. Just like short temper is a personality trait, and manic depression is a personality trait.
Pills can only hide a persons natural traits, it cannot change them. Without pills these people wont know what to do with themselves, I'm not saying ADHD doesnt exist, it does, I'm saying its treated like its some kinda disease that MUST be treated with drugs as the first option when most people in my opinion can learn to manage without drugs.
Now I will back up my claims with proof.
Here is how Ritalin works
"Using a technique called positron emission tomography, or PET, researchers at Brookhaven's Center for Imaging and Neurosciences studied dopamine levels in 11 male subjects. In two sessions, the volunteers were each given a dose of Ritalin, calculated using their body weight to correspond to the doses given to children with ADHD, or a placebo. While their brains were scanned to record dopamine levels, the subjects were asked to rate their feeling of restlessness and "high." Meanwhile, physicians monitored each subject's blood pressure and heart rate.
The results showed that brain dopamine levels increased significantly approximately 60 minutes following ingestion of the drug as compared to the placebo.
"We now know that by increasing the levels of extracellular dopamine, you can activate these motivational circuits and make the tasks that children are performing seem much more exciting," said Volkow. "By raising that level of interest, you can significantly increase the ability of the child to focus on the task."
Volkow added that Ritalin also works to suppress "background" firing of neurons not associated with task performance, allowing the brain to transmit a clearer signal. "Random activation of other cells can distract you, and children with ADHD are easily distracted," she said. "Ritalin suppresses that background firing and accentuates the specific activation, basically increasing the signal-to-noise ratio and increasing a child's ability to focus."
Source Source URL
Ritalin works by slowing the brain function down. How do you figure your brain is sharper by doing this? This is equal to taking a 64bit CPU, and running 32bit software in an attempt to filter out "bad" data which you consider "junk" or not u seful to keep the CPU more focused on a single task of say crunching random numbers.
Honestly while this can work, isnt it better to learn to fully use what you have?
Adderall works in the same way, however its a mixture of a few drugs. I am researching it as we speak but so far it seems to be in the same league as Ritalin.
But ok, lets assume you are right, and these drugs are completely safe, harmless with no side effects, lets say these drugs help make the mind sharp and help people concentrate, if this is true shouldnt they be marketed over the counter like anti depression, pain medication, and others?
Think about this.
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A more complete look at the "checklist" of the initial screening that is sometimes used with the diagnoses of Adult ADD.
A. Past History
1. History of ADD symptoms in childhood, such as distractibility, short attention span, impulsivity or restlessness. ADD doesn't start at age 30.
2. History of not living up to potential in school or work (report cards with comments such as "not living up to potential")
3. History of frequent behavior problems in school (mostly for males)
4. History of bedwetting past age 5
5. Family history of ADD, learning problems, mood disorders or substance abuse problems
B. Short Attention Span/Distractibility
1. Short attention span, unless very interested in something
2. Easily distracted, tendency to drift away (although at times can be hyper-focused)
3. Lacks attention to detail, due to distractibility
4. Trouble listening carefully to directions
5. Frequently misplaces things
6. Skips around while reading, or goes to the end first, trouble staying on track
7. Difficulty learning new games, because it is hard to stay on track during directions
8. Easily distracted during sex, causing frequent breaks or turn-offs during lovemaking
C. Poor listening skills
1. Tendency to be easily bored (tunes out)
2. Inattentive to conversation (looks like they are there, but actually mentally elsewhere)
3. Repetitious questioning
4. Tendency to avoid eye contact or seemily has attention else where
D. Restlessness
1. Restlessness, constant motion, legs moving, fidgetiness
2. Has to be moving in order to think
3. Trouble sitting still, such as trouble sitting in one place for too long, sitting at a desk job for long periods, sitting through a movie
4. An internal sense of anxiety or nervousness
E. Impulsivity
1. Impulsive, in words and/or actions (spending)
2. Say just what comes to mind without considering its impact (tactless)
3. Trouble going through established channels, constantly taking procedural shortcuts, trouble following proper procedure, an attitude of "read the directions when all else fails"
4. Impatient, low frustration tolerance
5. A prisoner of the moment
6. Frequent traffic violations (and road rage)
7. Frequent, impulsive job changes
8. Tendency to embarrass others
9. lying or stealing on impulse
F. Poor Organization
1. Poor organization and planning, trouble maintaining an organized work/living area
2. Chronically late or chronically in a hurry
3. Often have piles of stuff
4. Easily overwhelmed by tasks of daily living
5. Poor financial management (late bills, check book a mess, spending unnecessary money on late fees)
6. Some adults with ADD are very successful, but often only if they are surrounded with people who organize them.
G. Problems Getting Started and Following Through
1. Chronic procrastination or trouble getting started
2. Starting projects but not finishing them, poor follow through
3. Enthusiastic beginnings but poor endings
4. Spends excessive time at work because of inefficiencies
5. Inconsistent work performance
H. Negative Internal Feelings
1. Chronic sense of underachievement, feeling you should be much further along in your life than you are
2. Chronic problems with self-esteem
3. Sense of impending doom
I. Mood swings
1. Negativity
2. Frequent feeling of demoralization or that things won't work out for you
J. Relational Difficulties
1. Trouble sustaining friendships or intimate relationships, promiscuity, sexual impulsivity and compulsivity
2. Trouble with intimacy
3. Difficulty with commitment, dissatisfaction; "grass is always greener" syndrome
4. Tendency to be immature
5. Self-centered; immature interests
6. Narcissistic; failure to see others' needs or activities as important
7. With
feh
I can relate, I have a bad case of ADD, and if I'm not carefull, I can wander "off topic" and think of 5 or 6 things which are cool, but totally un-related to what I am supposed to be doing right now. People I worked with like to quote "that dreamer" song (by supertramp?)..but one advantage of ADD is that ADD people can out-perform non-ADD people by 50,000 times on any subject that catches our fancy..but any other "boring" subject that we arn't interested in,...who cares!!!, sure, I can do it if I concentrate real hard, (pills help here, but have side-effects(I recentlly heard of diabeties problems with some pills?)) but them's the breaks, perhaps, in the distant future, with nanotech/biotech, "normal" people could pop a nanobot pill and experience what ADD is...
Why not just join a Zen monastery ...
I was placed on Ritilan at a young age, and it helped a great deal. I went from sitting most of the day daydreaming, and taking all of my homework home, and getting straight D's to getting my work all done in school, still goofing off most of the day and getting straight A's.
I stopped it a few years later becasue they make it such a hassle to get and take care of in school. I had to go into the councilor's office, get her attention and get my pills. If the regular person wasn't there, I had to explain to someone else what was going on. Several times I was accused of faking and just being an addict.
Later in my life I had further trouble, but Ritilan wasn't really an option. I was placed on Imipramine. It didn't work as well, but at least gave me the ability to control my emotions a bit better. It had some side effects with giving me really wierd blood readings, and I had to stand up very slowly or pass out. If I ever had to move somewhere quickly, I usually just hit the floor. Later I was placed on Cylert. It wasn't quite as effective as Ritilan, but was marginally cheaper, and I didn't have drug insurence. It also didn't give me the ups and downs of Ritilan.
A few years ago, the company who made Cylert reported that there had been several cases of "Acute Hepatic failure" in individuals also taking cylert. There were something like fifteen or so cases out of about 500,000 individuals on the drug, and there was no other information about possible causes, other combinations of drugs being taken, or other diseases that might have caused it. I'm sure that the patent expiration of cylert, and the simultanious release of this information were just coincedental.
I stayed on cylert for a while, but had to have regular blood tests to check the health of my liver. It was fine. Later when I got a job that gave drug benefits, I went to Concerta.
Concerta is just Ritilan, but it's in a special capsule that has small holes in it. It releases drug in a controled manner. It works much like the sustained release Ritilan, but much better, as the sustained release isn't chemical it's mechanical.
If you don't have drug benefits, Concerta is extremely expensive, and of course patened.
Before I was placed on medication, they tried Behaivor modification therapy on me, and my expierence with that has irrevocably convinced me that anyone attempting it or advocating it is guilty of a crime against humanity and should be punished accordingly. I was in second grade, and due to the stress and depression of their 'help' I attempted suicide. Nine year olds should not be so depressed and stressed that they attempt suicide. Once the crap was stopped, things got better. My headaches stopped, my nightmares stopped, my ulcers went away, and I felt much better.
As far as the 'natural' alternatives, I don't put much stock in them. Most haven't had serious study, and tend to sell on the grounds of having the word 'natural' tacked on the front. No one has ever sufficiently explained to me what something has to be to be called natural, as I've seen it on things actually found in nature, things refined from things found in nature, things synthesized, but identical to things refined from things found in nature, things created by genetically engineered organisms, etc. The attitude seems to be that anything natural can't hurt you, but some of the most deadly toxins are found in nature, so I really just can't have that attitude.
I do have an uncle who swears by his 'natural' treatment, but even when I'm not medicated, he strikes me as someone with poor attenton span and emotional control. When he took Ritilan he was sitll a pain, but was more tolerable. He however claims that the 'natural' (I have no idea what it is) stuff helps him better. I tend to doubt it.
Ritilan for me is the best treatment I've run across, talk to your doctor and pharmacist (often a pharmacist will know more about effects of the drugs than the doctor), also check with some of the various we
There is a civil war coming in the United States. Remember which side has most of the guns
...would that mean we would have to call it GNU/schizophrenia ?
This shows how little you understand how the brain works and what the drugs do, despite your apparent belief that you have some sort of advanced insight into "how your mind works." The drugs used to treat ADD regulate the dopamine system. That does not slow anything down and it does not in any way resemble the effects of alcohol. And gaining the ability to think about one thing at a time does not reduce my intelligence, make me less sharp, or slow down my thinking process. It means that I can concentrate on the task at hand without putting up with a constant barrage of intrusive, unrelated thoughts. I can put all of my mental energy into doing what I want to be doing instead of expending half of it wondering if Bob's mole is cancerous, thinking about the possible insulators that could be used in the heating element of an electric oven, thinking about places I might go on my next vacation, etc. Those thoughts are undesirable when I am trying to concentrate on something else.
I am not "hiding behind drugs." I am using drugs to allow my brain to compensate for physiological problems that interfere with my life. Do you also tell people who take drugs for MS that they should learn how their bodies work and stop hiding behind drugs? You probably do, but resonable people do not. I have a medical condition and I can take drugs that have exactly the effect that I want them to have. That's treatment, not "hiding."
Again, you obviously do not understand how the disorder works and how it interferes with people's lives. I don't have any problems setting priorities. What I do have a problem with is having one thought INVOLUNTARILY replacing another thought. You seem to believe that this is just a matter of people thinking of something else they could be doing and then doing it. That doesn't happen. Many people with ADD frequently find themselves in places or situations when they cannot remember how they got there. They can be thinking about something and then suddenly the train of thought is gone. They know that they were thinking, but they don't know what the subjects was.
The subject matter of extraneous thoughts is not voluntary. This is what you do not seem to understand. ADD can make your brain feel like it's in hyperdrive -- having a constant stream of unrelated thoughts that may last for only a fraction of a second. Setting priorities is great, but actually following them is not always possible with that kind of background noise. Try doing a complex mathematical proof with somebody standing behind you banging cymbals and blowing a trumpet for hours on end while an obnoxious talk radio station is blaring in your ear and see how well you concentrate. That's what it's like. And no, I am not in school. I graduated and lived for many years before I was diagnosed.
On the advise of some friends and professors a couple of years ago I was tested for and diagnosed with ADHD. A little background quickly for anyone that hasn't been tested in awhile. No one is diagnosed ADD anymore its only ADHD now, within a few years according to the doctors ADHD is supposed to be phased out as a diagnosis and everyone with ADHD (read everyone that was also diagnosed ADD) will then be diagnosed autistic) (nice how they like to change names and create more blanket terms for things.
.. well. scattered) the vitamine that helps product this chemical in your body is calcium so if you are sensitive to milk (have times where you just have to drink it then you are probably sensitive to it). You should cut out milk and start taking around 1000mg of calcium daily. Also all of those B6 vitamines are very good for your brain and act slightly as mood stabalizers. Get some Super-B and pop a couple of those a day, magnesium and zinc are also very helpful for the brain you can probably find a calcium/magnesium/zinc pill that has around 33% of your daily of each.. pop 3.
So anyways I've read up on the subject a fair bit, one piece I came across attributed some of the ADD/ADHD effects to a variety of difficiences. Apparently atleast part of it can stem from a dopamine deficiency (this chemical helps signals travel along your brain so if you are missing a bit then things kind of get
Another oddity I've found is Yerba Mate (google it) . It has a whole ton of weird stuff in it that I have found if taken for atleast a month will SIGNIFICANTLY normalize my mood and help with concentration. Oh and natural lighting is a must, spent the extra money and get full spectrum lighting for any area you are going to be working in for large amounts of time (room/office/bathroom) etc..
Jon Ringuette
iMeme.net
I took Ritalin for years as a child, before it was proven to stunt growth. I am now several inches shorter than my shortest brother, and although I'll never know if it was the Ritalin, I wish to god I could go back and not take it.
After "dealing" with ADHD for years I now don't believe in it. I think it's a bogus diagnose, and there was really nothing wrong with me, I was just a normal child that was incredibly bored with the pace of education in school so I searched for other things to occupy my time which infuriated my teachers. I believe had I been given special instruction I would surpassed most the other children in the class intellectually, but instead, at the request of my teachers, I was kept drugged up so I would sit there zoned-out like a zombie on dope.
I think that's incredibly sad that I spent my entire childhood in that state, and don't think any child or adult should suffer what I have suffered. If your doctor says you have ADHD, tell him to go fuck himself and get a second opinion.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
That has also happened to me.
But only when posting as AC.
Now I'm afraid a lot of people are misdiagonosed with ADHD because their mom has heard of it and swears it must be that without knowing what it really is. I won't try explaining what it is since I'm sure you know in a nutshell that certain parts of the brain are underperforming and it can be diagonosed with either a PET scan of fMRI(no one has gone to much trouble to do anything about finding how it works though to make it into a good diagonose since it is more expensive to do those scans than to just take ritalin). Best way I say to diagonose for it is check the effects of caffiene on someone. If it relaxes them they are probably ADHD and if it stimulates them hehe well they definately don't have ADHD (give me a tripple expresso and it doesn't do a thing for me else than help me focus and hey even goto sleep).
:-P)) If you have it you probably can figure out what you have it in. Its normally related to being very narrowminded on interests since you can't focus on anything really not in your interests (which is why some people think ADHD is not real since this sounds normal). So thats the one good thing I can think of at this moment.
Ritalin works great, my advice though is to take it only when you need it. Your body builds up a tolerance to the stuff so you always need higher doses though if you go off it your tolerance reduces. Back in High School, Middle School, and Elementary School, I kinda needed to take it regularly (won't talk about how HS isn't structured well for learning either). Also its not nice when you build up such a high tolerance you encounter withdrawal effects as you come off (its also not nice to take too much but that was due to one time I was so busy doing something forgetting I had already taken one earlier). Now in college I find the 5mg tablets are all I need since I take it only when I need it and I can make a supposed 2 month supply of 60 tablets last a year (which is nice depending on the state you are in can require different amounts of paperwork thats a pain in the ass). One of these days due to the pain of paperwork I will make sure they do the same thing for cigarettes since the only reason ritalin has that much paperwork is due to it being a narcotic. In comparison to cigarette its not addictive at all (even heroin is believed to be less addictive than nicotine but oh well).
Other times basically what I do is drink caffiene. Doesn't work nearly as well as ritalin, but it does stimulate the correct parts quite well.
Now for the good parts of ADHD. Not sure if you have heard of hyperfocus. Its an ability if you are truly ADHD that you will have (it doesn't work as well while you are on ritalin). Its the ability to focus straight into whatever you love and ignore everything else in the world. For me its always been something computer based or math based. In a hyperfocus, I've found I can easily outperform most people much faster than normal (by the way a little bit of alcohol I find aids with it and has helped me wipe out my friends in console FPS when we are drinking with a score of like 20-1-0-0 in about one to two minutes(helps that they perform worse of course also
You have more severe ADD than most in that you completely forget what you were doing before hand.
Maybe not everyone can manage their ADD, my point is that some people can, alot of people do.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Ever thought of moving to sunnier climes?
Watch this Heartland Institute video
I have a 142 IQ, and I don't suffer from any of the symptoms of ADHD. I think it's fairly amusing that you would rationalize your disorder by suggesting that it might be a reflection of a higher than average IQ.
Here's a simple means of determining if it is a "disorder" for you: Does it negatively impact your ability to function?
If you can't understand mathematics, then I would suggest that the answer is "Yes." If you cannot focus sufficiently to be productive in a work environment, then the answer is "Yes." If your behavior results in poor social standing with your peers, then the answer is "Yes."
So the next time you're talking too fast, laughing too loud, unable to process mathematics that hundreds of millions of others can, and cannot find a place of employment that accepts your particular "personality trait," ask yourself if your "brain is going too fast."
Clearly not you, though.
There is a beautiful course that certainly has HELPED and/or cured alot of people suffering from various mental illnesses, ranging from depression, autism, ADHD to criminality and suicidal tendencies. It is called the Art of Living course, which features a unique breathing-technique called the Sudarshan Kriya. It has been researched and tested in medical studies conducted in India, the findings proving that it actually helps people.
Follow the link in my sig if you're interested. Or click on this one to read about the Art of Living course: http://www.artofliving.org/c-basic.html
Here is a link to interesting summaries of medical research-papers:
http://www.artofliving.org/apex/research.htm
The course will also help any individual wanting help. The way we live in the world today, with stressful situations and a fast-paced lifestyle, it is a course for everybody who wants to catch up with their breath and calm down. It is simple and perfectly safe, yet very profound, effective and powerful. It is a course anybody can follow and benefit from.
Art of Living is a global international organisation. You may locate the nearest course-location to you in this link: http://www.artofliving.org/contacts.asp. Even if you have to travel a bit to reach the location, the course is definately worth it. It is a course for life, on how to live life in joy, peace and harmony.
Personally, this course has helped me tremendously and is continuing to do so (I practice the techniques taught at the course daily). I personally know many other people from every corner of the world, it has also helped them in many different ways. I will recommend it to everybody, any day.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
ADD (AHDH) has a cause rooted in poor focus control but the behavioural symptoms can vary greatly and appear to be vey very odd to observers.
I was diagnosed at age 33 after a life of being labelled lazy, stupid, a weirdo, anti-social, socially maladjusted, irresponsible, self obsessed, uncaring, and so on...
The diagnosis was a quiet explanation for the constant turmoil in my own head, that at times made feel like I might be going crazy.
So yes, I _am_ giving my son the medication because 3 years of the above experience at school was all I could stand to put him through. And I am convinced that, for now, the one thing the medication does do is SAVE HIS SELFESTEEM.
Once that is intact then we can deal with the condition. And it's already working after 3 years of school with _no_ friends and being constantly in trouble. He is now happy and _has_ good friends with whom he socialises daily. This is the only vindication I need for the decision to medicate.
For myself, the greatest gift of medication is the ability to _choose_ to put something aside for attention later. It's is freedom and clarity like I have never experienced before.
I'm not so ignorant to believe I'm cured. These medications are nothing more than symptom relief like pain killers are to sufferers of arthritis. And yes I _do_ believe that for some having the condition is just as painful and life destroying.
But, the relief is welcome and it allows you to take stock of yourself and plan properly for ways to deal with the condition and for once experience what it is like to think clearly.
The whole "ADD is a myth" movement can go jump in the lake. They clearly have not expeienced it in themselves or a loved-one. It is not just 'not being able to concentrate', hell everyone has days like that.
Imagine living life surrounded by a bank of TV screens with volume up high all on different channels. Imagine what it's like to sit at a keyboard and not be able to have enough clarity of thought to even type one letter, or to hold a book you really like in front of you but not be able to follow one line on the page no matter how much you really want to read it. Imagine being driven to a panic because you can't find your keys. Imagine not being able to ring someone because you dial a different number every time you try. Then imagine what it's like when this happens every day of your life.
So don't try to tell me it's not a real condition.
Cheers
I was diagnosed 20 years ago. For about the first 10 years, they had me on Rit. - they kept upping the doses because it wasn't working like they thought it should. Frankly, it got to a point where *I* felt so bad when I took it, that I was worse than without it. So I dropped medication altogether. I think Rit. is evil. I made it through highschool without it, and did well. College was it's own disaster for other reasons. Working with ADHD has not been something I've thought about for a number of years. I think any sort of caffine helps it, and here's the kick right here. You sort of have to watch yourself. When you're working, work, and make yourself focus. When you're tackling a problem (now I do tree work, sometimes it's how to get the top out of that tree without it landing on that house) you can let yourself drift a little. It seems to help the flow of ideas, but the ideas went away completely for me on medications. I also found myself completely unable to play guitar, or any other sort of musical insturment on meds - just no creative drive. Thats something to keep in mind.
My girlfriend has seriously bad ADHD and takes Wellbutrin for it. It levels her our without turning her into a Ritalin zombie. Give it a try.
It's not a cheap drug and I don't think there's a generic, but it seems to work.
This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
Very little (the concentration part being the main thing in common ONLY) of what was written above has anything to do with Schizophrenic Disorder. My father has a severe case of that disorder and the symptoms are far greater then what was listed above.
Shizophrenia is a split of the mind, between reality and the fantasy that a Schizophrenic's mind creates for them. You can explain and show ALL the evidence in the world that there isn't a conspiracy against a Schizophrenic, that their face isn't plastered all over the internet, that they aren't being watched 24 hours a day on television by the American People, but none of that matters.
That belief will NEVER go away. (At least in my fathers case.) The medication has calmed him and he is much more of a human being then he ever was prior to being medicated, but he is still quite a bit out there and always will be.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
I was Diagnosed at the age of 22 with it, goes a long way to explain school/college/relationship issues...
THIS "CONDITION" IS A GIFT.
I was put on Dexamphetamine sulphate (Ritalin made me Uber Violent) and the dexies gave me an insight into how the "average" brain works.
The normal brain has roughly 20 thoughts a minute go through it... an ADHD person has up to 300 thoughts a minute. The dexies just slowed me down, I lost all creativity. I took myself off the medication against the advice of my doctors. Having seen how I work with medication, I have been able to alter the way I work on a day to day basis, I can pick ideas out of the multitude, and actually utilise them, and focus to such a level.
It truly is a gift, and I wouldn't be any other way.
kay. i've got ADHD. ...
...
...
... you can also go plant a tree or something. and then i always look-out for that special coin someone dropped/lost.
somethings are just too important for other
people.
"but why waste time on this, i've already solved it!"
"no, you haven't / i don't believe you."
for some people certain things are just visible.
i can just SEE it!
some people will just deny you / your skill.
bad example:
it's trying to explain the
color blue to a blind person.
society dicides. this's the truth.
what the MASSES believe or WANT to
believe is TRUE!
if "everybody" decides to speak english,
english will it be.
same to math / logic / etc
this believe-of-the-masses is then the environment.
some people can see the REAL world, e.g. small
rock r-evolving around a sun ; ) nothing special there.
then there is the MADE-UP world. we can call this
the MICKEY-MOUSE or SMURF world. again, it's
make-believe (plus alot of denial, lie and arbitrariness).
now i have this policy or philo-shopy of no
interference. some peoples brains are acctually
running a program. it's fake, of course, but
if they follow this program (be mean and call
it propaganda) they get the stimulation they
need to contiunue (the lie or SMURF-world
make believe).
so once this program has taken hold you will
become one of THEM (the evil-fiend).
cannot argue with these people, because
they wouldn't get their stimulation (their
program would brake) and this IS painfully clear to THEM! they are stuck.
so, it's Arbitrariness! you can do whatever you want, but if you keep shiting in your camp you will eventually get sick. so if you need to dump it, don't do it here
theory: Arbitrariness can make you frustrated
PRETTY fast. some people give up (go
to the MICKEY-MOUSE SMURF-world)
some develope a "desiase"
"i believe in my ethics but they don't
seem to help me live in a better world."
what's wrong?
yeah, i know everythings on the gens, but
think about it: if 90 % of humans were
to be sick, this would be normal(!) and they
would decide then 10% are "abnormal".
strange...
i've found a mental training works for my
ADHD. i try to remember when i get bored.
somethimes i do it backwards. like watching a movie or sequence backwards. how did i get here (bus-station), i trace it back back-wards...
another trick i use is to remember spots and tag it with a thought. so when i pass thru here again, sometimes i remember the thought i had.
i don't do any spraying or the like but somethimes a drop a small stone (not too bright a color) at a certain place to make me remember. these methodes help abit to keep me in the here and now
I have dyspraxia, which seems very similar to ADHD, but seems to be better defined and understood (there's a seequence of physical reflex tests that are used for diagnosis). suspected ADHD sufferers may want to investigate whether they are actually dyspraxic. Anyhow, studies on children show that increased Omega-3 intake gives a lot of releif from teh symptons, and i find it helps me a lot, when i remember to take it...
RobT
- please excuse my typing, i'm severely dyspraxic.
When I was about 14, they told me I had AD(H)D but I'm rather confident that they were wrong. However, I am currently on an acute dose (1500mg/day) of lithium (as well as prozac and trazodone) which I swear must have been designed to destroy your memory and concentration.
The side-effects I get from lithium are certainly quite different from AD(H)D but similar in that I get very noticable decrease in my ability to pay attention, or even remember what I'm currently doing. At its worst, I can, for instance, forget what piece of code I'm trying to write in mid-typing, which can obviously be a big problem. But not that I think about it, I've always had that problem to a lesser degree, even before starting lithium.
Anyway, the one helpful thing I can say is that I found taking 120mg of ginko biloba every morning and night helped alot with my concentration as well as memory. Unless I was mislead, I don't think you build up a tolerance to ginko biloba.
Property is theft.
Heroin really flattens out my mood (and me, for that matter!). Hell of a lot cheaper than that crap you were taking....
In my series of posts, your post makes exactly the point I attempt to make.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Seriously. I haven't been diagnozed, but life really sucks.
I've had massive problems trying to concentrate on things I didn't find interesting (which included all the school subjects), I'm sometimes bad-tempered and can't handle all social situations. Sometimes I also "hyperfocus", although for only a couple of hours. I also find it difficult to sleep at decent times, and I've very seldom slept (well) enough.
I really hurt my job prospects, my social life and the projects I attempt. Heck, I've been a complete failure in most of my projects, and projects initiated by others.
It's possible that I might get diagnozed with something like this ADD (I have Advanced Dungeons and Dragons!), or the Asperger syndrome, but whattheheck. Life is difficult for all the healthy guys too. At least life is difficult for all somewhat intelligent and (therefore) critical types.
What's this talk about the college grades? Why do they matter so much?
All in all, what works with me is NOT DOING THINGS I don't find interesting. Luckily, now that I'm 21, my parents won't make me do things and I've already had a couple of years to learn to live with myself. Sure, sometimes life still sucks.
Another addition; sure, some of you might have no alternatives to medication in your current state, but addictive medication will get you hooked. And other "reasons" for ADHD might be the twisted society, your parents or whatever. Clearly, everybody has problems with growing up and some need (professional) therapy, and some even need medication to get the therapy through, but, maybe there's such a thing as personality anyway and we shouldn't fight it with medicine unless its totally intolerable.
Well, I suspect I either have ADHD or Sleep Apnea, both cause an inability to focus/mental fog or as I describe it the "brick" in my forehead. I have had a 50 page limit/day on reading all my life. I am amazed at people like my wife who can read a 500 page book at one sitting. I have ate veggie/low fat/Atkins with no discernable change in this mental fog. Reading for me is like holding my breath. Except for occasional episodes of clarity. Like when my wife went to her dad's for a week. I had cheap polish dogs(beef hearts first ingredient) all week with lemonade. Also for that week I turned-up this Bionaire f250($1 at garage sale) air purifier/ionizer full bore because I like the background noise. On the last day of the week, when I had to pick-up my wife, I felt "perfect" for once in my life. I drove 4 hours to pick her up, I was willing to drive her home that day instead of spending the nite. I was even able to sit and read a C++ textbook, I got at a factory outlet store. A few month's later I cranked the f-250 up all the way and it happened again. I have had lesser spells of feeling "perfect." I remember reading and feeling the fog come over my brain like a wave and I couldn't focus enough to read anymore. I have listened to Brown noise while sleeping and felt energized often, during winter. I have put air ionizers in the room with no luck. I have put a kickass air purifier in my room with no luck either. But now it's summer and I'm hibernating as usual, sleeping 10+ hours/day, but feeling lethargic. As soon as winter comes around, I perk-up a little and I'll be experimenting again.
This is an interesting subject, particularly for me. I believe I have some symptoms of ADHD.
Specifically, sometimes, even after a good night's sleep, I find it difficult to focus on *any* task, even several different things I am interested in doing.
Given a free day, with no work demands or housework demands, sometimes I can just sit at my desk with a web browser open, and not think clearly enough to decide what to do next.
In my work (network engineering, system administration) I have previously worked on complicated tasks, sometimes multitasking separate unrelated network outages and system problems. I have the intelligence and the capability to do so.
But I find that as I get older, I drift into fogs more and more frequently, where I can't seem to sort through the mass of information floating hazily through my brain.
I am 31, almost 32.
I blame it on the Diet Coke. I've been an addict for years, and I think perhaps the Nutrasweet is blocking some receptors in my brain or something. Seriously, I've noticed that my head is clearer when I don't drink it. So I'm trying to quit.
I exhibits most of the diagnostic indicators of ADHD and/or Autism, but I've never been 'diagnosed' and firmly reject the premise these are a disability or disease. I am poor at sport and empathic stuff, I'm constantly told I lack focus and concentration yet I know I am quite capable of focusing and concentration on something I find interesting and challenging for much longer than 'normal' people.
The real question should what is 'normal' and why should everybody be 'normal'. When any ability, attribute or skill of people is measured some people must end up on the extremes of the curve, this is entirely normal and is called a normal distribution.
Some people are good at sport, some people are poor at sport.
Some people are high EQ, some people are low EQ.
Some people are high IQ, some people are low IQ.
My special abilities allow me to conceive unusually and innovative solutions to problems, I can think around a problem in a way that 'normal' people are unable to even contemplate because they think in what I see as simplistic linear manner. I think this makes me and other similar people gifted not disabled.
I think you should read the THE EVIL PRACTICE OF NARCOTHERAPY FOR ATTENTION DEFICIT by Dr. David Keirsey. It may change the way you think about yourself.
You should also know that many of the greatest minds in history have exhibited the same symptoms as what is now called ADHD and/or Autism, Albert Einstein, Issac Newton, Isambard Brunel, Alexander Graham Bell; to name four.
There are many more here.
Finally two rhetorical questions.
Why are so many supposed 'normal' people prepared to label these abilities a disease or disability that must have a cause ? Many of these same people ascribe ADHD and/or Autism to MMR (or mercury in vaccines) because if it is a disease or disability it must have a cause. These 'normal' people are *supposed* to be empathic, yet give little consideration to our feelings in fact they do this despite our feels or thought on this subject. I think they should focus more effort into understanding that labelling.
I have found that ADHD makes me more creative than most people
Please allow me to suggest that your creativity is not caused by your ADHD, but that both your creativity and your ADHD were caused by the same thing. For instance, intelligence tends to be the most obvious answer. That's the way I tend to see these things. However, I have no interest in getting into any debate about whether or not or when intelligence causes mental disorders. ;)
Property is theft.
Coffee? An ex-coworker of mine who had been diagnosed with ADHD couldn't handle coffee. I'm not sure if it was really an ADHD thing or maybe the fact that he had the matabolism of a hummingbird. Anyway, a little coffee and he couldn't sit still, however, it did send his productivity through the roof! Later he would crash hard, usually before the workday was over.
A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with. - Tennessee Williams
There's been a real ramp-up of the use of excitotoxins in food over the past several decades. Substances like aspartame, MSG, and others have been found to incite ADHD-like symptoms in children, so I would assume the same could be true for adults. Some people have even gone so far as to say that the increased rate of incidents of ADHD has tracked almost exactly with the increaed use of MSG and similar substances in food, but I've never seen the source data for that claim.
More info can be found by starting here: nomsg.com or here: truthinlabeling.com
Warning! I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but if you start looking into this, you'll find that MSG is added to almost everything we eat here in the U.S. Not only is it added, but it's often hidden in other ingredients or labeled as "Natural Flavoring" which is legal in some cases since it is actually derived from natural sources.
If you suffer from any of the following, it might be worth looking into MSG a little closer.
headaches migraines, irritable bowel syndrome, asthma attacks, shortness of breath, anxiety or panic attacks, heart palpitations, heart attack-like symptoms, balance difficulties, mental confusion, mood swings, neurological disorders, behavioral disorders, allergy-type symptoms, mouth lesions, depression
Try cutting it out of your diet for 3 weeks and see if you feel better. Worst case, you eat healthy for a few weeks and then return to your old ways if it doesn't do anything for you!
Dupe posts are
Notice how in the past 5 years, there has been an increase in people who say they suffer from "ADHD". What its really become is dumping ground for doctors who don't know what to really diagnose you with. Then these people can parade around saying how "I have ADHD, I need special treatment!", when actually, you just can't shut up and sit still for more than 5 minutes.
It's entirely possible this mother was making up the illness to get attention. This is a not-too-uncommon mental disorder.
5 55 /0.html
It's called, in the maternal case, Munchausen syndrome. Although described as rare, it is much more common to lesser degrees. Indeed, as an example, there are entire sects of modern society that breed merely for status, which falls into the same category in my books. (YMMV)
http://health.yahoo.com/health/encyclopedia/001
Jackass...
Thanks for that long and informative post! I actually made it through it. ;) I find ADD to be a blessing and a curse.
This will be somewhat insensitive, and I apologize, but I find that people today overmedicate.
I've found that most people's ailments can be cured with two important things:
1) If you're overweight, you need to get at or below your "ideal" weight. Do what you have to do to get there. If you have to starve yourself, its better for you than to be fat. This goes contrary to "common" wisdom, but doctors now believe being overweight is so bad for you, that its better to just stop eating for a few weeks. It will be hard, its worse than heroin, but you can do it.
2) Exercise. Not the wimpy "walk around the block". Exercise every night until you sweat, your arms/legs ache, and you're out of breath. Do that for at least an hour.
3) Eat less overall. Scientist are now finding health is increased by not eating every other day and eating slightly more on the "other" days.
4) Never sleep in late. On weekdays never sleep past 6:30. On weekends, 7:00 should be your "luxury" sleep.
I promise you it will "cure" most of your problems. The bulk of today's problems... allergies, gastro-intestinal, circulatory, and chemical imbalance are squarely on the shoulders of our lifestyle which is essentially eating constantly (you don't need 3 meals a day), and then watching TV. Finally, you sit around and complain how tired you are.
You'll think this suggestion is silly and trivial. I promise you that its not. You should probably be eating 1/2 of what you eat today. Virtually every person living in the western world eats too much.
99% of the cases of this being diagnosed is fake.
The entire thing was created as a revenue stream for the doctors and drug companies, especially in children.
That's why they say 90% of kids have it.. bah they are just normal kids. The definition of normal is what they are trying to change.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Just wondering that if, since, so many people evidently have to ritalin, if, it's not that these people are diseased, its that society is just messed up?
Maybe a lot of people get easily distracted in their jobs, because they are in fact boring.
Maybe a lot of people get depressed because, well, their lives really do suck.
This is my sig.
I was diagnosed with ADHD back when I was 13 years old, and I'm currently 29. Sixteen years ago, ADHD was even more hotly contested as to whether or not it was "real" than it is now. Yes, I do think it's been incredibly overdiagnosed by inexperienced doctors that didn't have a particularly good overview of kids in general, but I am certain that there is something quite substantial to ADHD diagnoses.
When I was diagnosed, it was by one of the leading child psychologists in the region, Dr. Dierdre Lovecki. I spent two days undergoing extensive analysis and testing at her office in Providence, before I recieved a report outlining in detail the various aspects of the situation. After this process, and after a 12 page report was handed to my father... nothing happened. The school system didn't implement any of the suggestions, my father didn't implement any of them, I wasn't put on any medications or habit modification plans... nothing.
It took me ten years to get my shit together. Anything I tried to do, I wasn't able to manage for long. Writing? Nope, distracted. Learning to code? Pft, not a chance. Too distracted. Getting a job? Nope, it was -much- more comfortable to collect disability due to the extreme nature of my ADHD and sit around the house becoming 'one' with the Internet. I wasted far too much of my life because I just never learned to get shit done.
I finally started getting help after the point where suicidal tendencies started to appear. I moved from my home state to another, and got on medication and weekly counseling to manage the bad habits I'd had for my entire life. I got better. Slowly, but surely, I got better. I don't think I'll ever manage to get a Bachelors, but I did nail honors for both years of a community school, and got a degree in programming there. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to use it efficiently. I spent far too long gaining the -wrong- habits, to be able to make up for the regimented diligence really needed for programming. Give me a network to administer, though, and I'm all ready to go.
My point with all this self-disclosing rambling is that if you really DO have ADHD, or even believe you -might- have it, that you can do a great deal simply by looking into behavior modifications. Get those habits down early, and well, so you don't have to think about them. If it really is a severe case, don't shy away from medication. Medication for something like ADHD is not something to be ashamed of or resistant to. It's there to correct an unfortunate flaw in the design of your brain. If you can't compensate for it by habit alteration, get that extra kick to help you work on habits to make your life better.
I've gotta go to work now - I've managed to get far enough out of the pit I got stuck in early in life enough so that I can work with my brother's company. He also has ADHD, as do all his children. He found the way to make ADHD work for him, I've found a way to get it far enough behind me so I can live with it. His kids are starting from age 4 by getting the habits that'll serve them well to defeat ADHD problems later in life. Don't get -too- frustrated with ADHD. Don't let it wreck your life.
Oh, and in closing, anyone that tells people not to use any ADHD medication and uses mind-altering drugs themselves for -fun- is a hypocritical asshole.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
"I had a half ride scholarship to one of the top comp sci schools in the country "
Hardly one of the top schools. More like one that manages to have a nice public FTP server.
But "top school"? Probably better than any you could find in Afganistan or Iraq, anyway.
Well guys I have to say i'm suprised. I thought slashdot would take a more objective approach to this. I've had ADD since i was itty biddy but I was never diagnosed until my freshman year of college. ;P
I have to say I'm stunned that some of you are questing if its even a real illness. I admit, it is overly diagnosed but that does not have any effect on the reality of the disease. The problem is people will learn to cope faster (and better probably) if they catch the disease at an early age, so of corse they look..and they find anyone who might possibly match (or dont..we've all seen dateline) the criteria. Still it seems to me you guys are compareing two seperate things. On one hand the fact that its over diagnosed in children, OF CORSE IT IS! Look at the symptoms it fits 90% of children! Its up to dr's and the kids parents to decide if they really have it or not. But how you can then go to question if its even a real disease! Common!!
My experience goes a little like this..I've always been very "active" running around never staying in the same place. Even back with my apple IIGS the mesermizing flashing colors and lights were the only thing that could keep my attention. It is a disease. I remember being able to spend hours and hours in front of a computer learning about linux from 2am-8am (not everyday, but as often as possible heh) back in middle school. MIDDLE SCHOOL! I couldn't "study" a book it was almost impossible for me. Yet I could spend hours in front of something with buttons and colors and the time would just disappar, this is the "hyperconcentration" many add suffers will talk about. We tend to just plop down in front of something we enjoy and then well..death fire floods nothing can get us away.
I think the only reason I managed to get though highschool without being diagnosed was luck. I mean I just never had to study to pass. I would always get in trouble at school for talking and whatnot, but never anything serious (another sign..trouble..but not like stabbing people trouble heh) When college started, being a cs major, i HAD to study. It didn't seem to matter how much I sat down and tried to study my brain just wouldn't work. It was like he was fighting me, a thousand things would zoom though my head every 10 seconds none of with had to do with the finer points of lisp. One day i was talking to my mom and she told me my dad had recently been diagnosed as severe (I just thought he was a weird engeneer..but man..hes like the adhd poster dude)
Needless to say i went to the dr and tried some medications. Oh my god was there a difference. It was like somone washed off my brain and now everything was getting though! I went from a C to an A adverage in almost all my classes. For me at least, adderol was a life saver. I'd probably still be writting tons of odd little unrelated linux utils without it
ps. Flaming is bad mm k
I could tell you some stories. Like how my mother's constant changing of my medication caused me to flunk 9th grade and eventually drop highschool altogether. Or how I used to sell my meds to students just so I could have some friends to talk to. But to sum it up quickly, I hated all the ADD "fixing" medications.
As an adult, I refuse to take medication for ADD or ADHD (really it's the same thing; the hyperactivity I think is only selective depending upon your point of view). I'm interested in the natural supplements because i've found I do have trouble staying on a task I find monotonous (don't we all though?). In any case I think i've found a sort of supplement: Caffene.
Yes, that miracle drug even helps ADD. Well, I use guarana when I don't feel like fixing green tea, but it works just as well. My theorey is this: i'm hyperactive around things I like doing (specifically, programming or dance dance revolution). When i'm programming on a new project that interests and challenges me, I can sit there and code for hours and hours on end. Like 10 hours. So, I merely provide the same hyperactivity or stimulation with caffene. I get a little hyper, turn up the streaming Drum&Bass, and just work.
IANAL. YMMV. UAYOR.
...if you think "iTunes 128kb AAC sounds just like the CD" ...
I agree that people ought not post "jokes" about this as if it isn't a serious matter . . . however, I feel compelled to say that this story is not even remotely what I'd call "News for Nerds."
/. is not a support group
/.)
Why is this disorder of particular interest to nerds? Does your average nerd face unique or special challenges by having ADHD that other people with ADHD do not?
What if you had Tourette's Syndrome? Or photosensitive epilepsy? Or any number of ailments that might negatively impact your ability to function in the workplace?
So, to be clear, my points are these:
1. AFAIK, ADHD is not unique to nerds, nor does it affect them in unique ways.
2. Any number of disorders can present the same sort of difficulties
3.
4. None of the above is "News for Nerds." (While it is "stuff that matters," I think it helps make sure you're 2 for 2 when judging if something is appropriate for
Great posting Smithy! Thanks much. I'd be interested knowing if anyone has feedback on the following (some of which were mentioned above):
ritalin with respect to dry mouth. 6 mos after starting ritalin my dentist nearly jumped out of his skin when my formerly almost perfect teeth had 14 cavities!
dexedrine - switched to this from ritalin b/c the drymouth wasn't bad with it. Still have crash feeling at end of day - taking SR capsules helps to not forget dosages, but I still miss some.
adderall - haven't tried this yet, but friends in the states who have swear by it. Canada=Lame with respect to drug approval timelines.
-hanging out in SARonto.
First off, I am ADHD but manage it quite well. In my opinion, many diseases like diabetes, hypoglycemia, ADHD, and certain mental illnesses are diet and lifestyle related. Note: I said "related" and not "caused".
:)
Shocked?!!
We live in a society where the docs tell you, "You aren't responsible for your disease and condition, just take this magic pill."
Tell me about your diet. Is it filled with sugar, carbs, and caffene? How regularly do you eat (3 meals per day)? Also, have you ever had your blood sugar checked?
Tell me about your excercise routine. Do you excercise daily, infrquently, or never?
What has helped me is:
1. Laying off the caffene, only one shot in the morning.
2. Eating well balanced meals that aren't filled with sugar and carbs at regularly scheduled times. I even eat Oatmeal for breakfast everyday now.
3. Daily excercise.
Don't lose heart. If you can do it for 20 days you can make something a habit/lifesytle change.
As for ADHD in children, have you visited a school lately? Schools now come equipped with vending machines and the Pop companies (coke/pepsi) give some of the profits back to the school. Where has common sense gone? Give kids stimulants and empty calories like pop and potato chips then expect them to behave and perform well? Whaaaaaa?
Note: I do believe that there are people with legitimate brain chemistry problems. However the vast majority of people just need to eat right, excercise, and work on some self discipline and they will be fine. Check Amazon.com for these books..
The Myth of ADHD and Other Learning Disabilities. Parenting Without Ritalin.
The A.D.D. and A.D.H.D. Diet! Updated
And remember, you are responsible for you. You have a disorder. You are NOT this disorder. Also there are no "silver bullets". No magic pills or herbs that will magically cure. However, I do get daily emails from some guys telling me that have an ancient formula to make my "package" larger.
Good Luck!
I am not a lawyer, but if you are American then one issue you may want to investigate is whether ADHD is covered as a disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act. (At least Americans in your position may want to do this.) I have read things on the web that suggest it is, and if so then this may ease some of your career concerns a little. The ADA requires employers to make reasonable efforts to accommodate people with disabilities. ADD/ADHD sufferers in universities should get with the people in the "disability" office to see what kinds of accommodations the university is able to make. Usually I have 1-3 students a term who take their exams in the disability center because they have special needs, like more time, and while the students don't always tell me what is going on, when they do it is almost always ADD/ADHD. But the university stresses to instructors that they should not work out arrangements with students themselves; it all has to go through the disability office.
This post is dedicated to all of those
It is my belief that psychosis and depression are only disabilities in our current culture.
Classically there are two responses to a negative stimulus, Fight and Flight. But what happens when you can't fight or leave, or if you want to think about things? the negative stimulus stays and you develop psychosis and depression.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I have had ADHD since I was a kid. The wierd part is I've always been able to get along without the meds. Typically it hinders me when actually trying to finish a task, boredom sets in the thrill of figuring things out wears off and move on to another challenging task.
There are only two things I take to help calm down the hyper affect and that's caffiene and nicotine. What a wonderful combo.
As for all the jokes and such, it's all just good natured fun. Anytime you post in a public forum you have to expect that some will make fun and others will be serious. But at some point the roles will always be reversed, so it's no big deal.
stratagem
... just so happens there's an article I saw this morning linked off of world net daily, a study that tends to show that ritalin use when younger could worsen cocaine use later if one were to use cocaine. link
...hmm.. "fib" shall we say, as any other industry, you get your truth then you get your normal "lies for profit". That is something that really should be taken into consideration if one were to be honest about it and apply the scientific method. I remember some kids who had a hard time reading, but dyslexia was known, and if that was found out about, it was dealt with normally. Having a normal energy level was just that, it was normal, the work around was more playing, and humans did more physical work then too, including children. The concept of "chores" was more universal. Normal chores, all kids did them, and they were physical. We raked the yard with a hand rake, it wasn't some man showed up with a gas powered leaf blower. We shoveled snow with a hand shovel. We ran-in a lot of cases- non electric carpet sweepers, or took carpets outside and hung them up and beat them. The grass got cut with a mower you pushed that had no engine connected to it, it was "work". Etc etc, not child slave labor in the mines, I'm not talk
With that said I've known several parents with children who had it, and some adults. They had tried a lot of different treatments to cope obviously, and no clear cut anything good about it, no matter the treatments. I have heard related that a really radical diet shift and television limitation helped some of the kids, but not all of them. Modern diets are usually too much sugar and lack of vital micro nutrients, and it can take a long time to get noticeable effects in trying to reverse damages when switching to more raw foods, better supplements, etc. It's not something you can switch your diet around and within a week see a lot of differences, it takes enough time to both remove accumulated toxins and to re build whole body strength, probably several months to even begin to get minor changes, and probably years to do a good job of it. The human body and brain are a whole and are too complex to be cavalier about it, to just dismiss the point that we really aren't designed to adequaltely deal with all the artificial chemical substances that get forced on us with modern foods and pollution and what are called "medicines" in a lot of cases, etc, there has simply been not enough time for evolution to deal with it except point out the examples of "bad" that start showing up with exposure and lack of real foods. foods now are dismal, they just are, supermarket food even produce is just so different, it's hard to explain, it's bleech, no flavor, probably very little nutrition. One of the main reasons I am a home gardener enthusiast, I merely want the same sorts of foods I grew up with.
It's a weird thing, when I was in grade school, either this problem of ADD and ADHD didn't exist much, or was not known about. There was no prescriptions that I recall for anything like add or adhd. I can't think of a single one of my friends who had anything like what I read about now or hear about. In fact, I think it was so rare that I think there has to be something in our society in general that changed radically between the late 40's and early 50s and current times that is helping to cause this phenomenon. I think any prescribing of "speed" no matter the brand of speed is more likely treating/masking symptoms and is not addressing the cause. Just a guess though, but if that isn't the case, where were the symptoms back then? What is it now in some areas, 1/4th of the children are put on various speed drugs? I sincerely hope that younger people in general don't accept this as normal human necessity or behavior, it's a completely new human phenomenon, so it shouldn't be treated as "normal" and the underlying case dealt with honestly and not exclusively by the pharmcos tame scientists, who are just as likely to
I have ADHD and have learned tools to work without medication. I went to a phsychiatrist while in my early 20's who specialized in treatment of ADHD. His medications usually consisted of Ritilan for the hyperactity(both outward and inward), Norpramin to prevent depression (he had determined that many ADHD people had some depression from dealing with it), and Prozac. In his experience the more inteligent sufferers had more of an internal hyperactivity, I call it hyperactivity of the brain. My description is too many various thoughts rolling around in my head at once. It was difficult to go to sleep at nights due to problem solving within that internal dialogue. There are also many different things that affect ADHD people with relationships as well. Dr. Whitaker was my doctor's name and he was in Dallas. Not sure if he is still there.
ADHD is a farce. There is little to no scientific basis for an ADHD diagnosis. This is just a way for drug companies to sell more pills.
You're just a scatterbrain.
It's perfectly normal to get distracted when doing stuff... heck, I do it all the time (I'm sat here writing on slashdot while simultaneously thinking about some code I'm working on).
My wife is really mad at this - she has like 20 ICQ sessions going on at once *and* plays ATITD in the background, without breaking into a sweat (let down by the fact that she's too much of a stress head to do anything useful with it, otherwise she'd be rich by now, instead of unemployed).
God help a world that pumps people full of drugs just because they can multitask.
I took Ritilan for 12 years. Taking it made me realize the only thing I really hated was Ritilan. I started doing zen meditation when I was 10. I quit taking Ritilan when I was 17. My school grades took a nose dive after that, but I no longer felt like a monster. When I was on Ritilan, I seemed to have no concious, even though it gave me sharpened mental focus. Make use of the focus that the drug gives you to develop focus so you can get off the stuff.
My problems with Ritilan stem from the fact that I was one of the test cases for the drug. The levels that I was prescribed would be considered child abuse now. I remember sitting in class one time and taking a razor blade and flaying the skin off the back of my hand. The thing that I found surprising, at the time, was how difficult it was to cut through the hairs. That said I loved the focus the drug gave me even though I wasn't sleeping, only a couple of hours a week.
If I had to do it over, I would still want the drug, just at dosages less than 1/20th of what I was given.
Some of my earliest and most vivid memories of childhood are of feelings and behavior which I only later realized were symptoms of depression (for which I've sought treatment off and on for over 20 years) and what's called ADD. My wife, however, doesn't seem to have ever had a down day in her life and has never experienced attentiveness problems. Does she sit there and try to tell me that all I need to do is work with my dep/ADD and leverage it in a positive way rather than seeking to medicate? Fuck no.
You see, despite her apparent lack of other problems in the old brain box, she suffers from excruciatingly painful migraine headaches which years of visits to specialists and umpteen different drugs have done very little to alleviate. Like ADD, many supposedly learned people continue to debate whether these so-called "migraines" are physiological, imagined, or simply the result of other conditions that aren't understood by the medical community and get lumped under the heading "migraine". Should I therefore just keep repeating to her that all she needs to do is simply work with the unbearable pain and use it to her advantage? Should I tell her that she's simply not making the effort to "understand herself"? Again, in the words of the poet, Fuck no.
Having lived with this state of affairs, I've grown accustomed to the workings of my brain and know which kinds of tasks I excel at and which I don't. Hey, I'm sure that in some way it helped get me through college with a degree in maths, even though I don't remember ever studying outside of class. But please...just because I can sometimes turn my hyperattentiveness into a kickass last-minute contract proposal that keeps my belly full and my garage well-stocked with German cars, it doesn't mean that I don't ache for the normal feelings and state of mind that your average person probably lives with most of the time, but which are revealed to me only in fleeting glimpses.
I mean really. Kids are now supposed to speak when spoken to, be quiet, be not be curious.
WTF.
This isn't so much about kids being ill, as their parents being demented.
This is my sig.
This is going to sound really crazy but I dealt with ADHD (Still do) all of my life and the most dramatic change in my life was college when I experimented with drugs. I took acid 3 times in one year. The final trip was a LOOONG and HARD trip that went on for what seemed to be a lifetime. I noticed a huge change in my personality and in my way of thinking about things, I wasn't in a fog anymore. Before dropping acid I couldnt focus on ANYTHING. I did really bad at school and my mind was always cluttered. For some strange reason after that one year of experimental drugs I noticed that I could cope more with ADHD. This is no joke. I am not telling people to go out and drop acid but I can only look back on my life and tell people about my experiences. Maybe it wasn't even the acid but it was opening my mind or maybe even a coming of age that was shadowed by the drugs. I am interested to know if anyone else with ADHD had similar life-changing results after experimenting with LSD.
The interesting thing is that I've brought up ADD with a few people I know - the reaction of people who don't know me very well is always "You don't have it," but anyone who's known me more than 3 years says "Yeah, you have it, no doubt." For the record, of the 18 indicators of ADHD (which the DSM IV says you need at least 6 for a possible diagnosis) I had 16 or 17.
I recommend reading Driven to Distraction (and its "sequel", Answers to Distraction, which is more of a Q&A resource) - can't remember who wrote it, can't find my copy right now, can't be bothered to look it up on Amazon (afraid I'll get sidetracked and not finish this).
As a result of this preliminary diagnosis, I've been re-examining my life. Pretty scary to see that large chunks of my life have been ruled by the way my brain is wired - the fact that I took 7 years to complete my first degree, the extreme disorganization that my co-workers marvel at, difficulties in reading and reacting to social situations, impulsivity that has gotten me in trouble on numerous occasions (but also has led to a lot of fun on numerous occasions!)...
So, to the original poster, I'd say (1) don't be scared of this - it's not a disease, your brain just works differently, (2) do LOTS of reading, check the Internet for new material (but cross-reference it), (3) find (or start) a support group in your area, and (4)KEEP YOUR SENSE OF HUMOUR!!! Remember - this is something that you will have for the rest of your life - so, when you're 85 and sitting in a nursing home trying to remember where your Depends are, it might not be Alzheimer's...
Check out these sites maybe they'll help. http://www.all-natural.com/add.html http://www.thomasarmstrong.com/myth_add_adhd.htm
SMOKE A BIG FAT JOINT!!!!! It will for sure calm you the fuck down....
So who said anything about personality disorders? ADHD is NOT a personality disorder, look in the DSM-IV. Neither is Schizophrenia, or Alcoholism (both are genetically and neurologically based DISEASES... yes they progress) On the other hand, I would agree with the people denouncing ADHD/ADD, but whether I do it not, it is a disorder, and one not related to the personality.
The only personality disorder slashdotters might have is Avoidant Personality Disorder.
Laugh, it was a joke.
-Xanadu
For most people with "ADHD"...
*Nothing is wrong with you*
Amphetamines (thats what ritalin basically is) and other mood altering drugs may make you feel "better", but is there really something wrong with you? This "disorder" has been marketed into existance by pharmaceutical companies with the help of lazy, underqualified public educators and univolved parents.
Ritalin is dangerous and addictive.
If your mind is spinning sometimes, there are reliable ways to manage your state of mind.
Again, I doubt anything is really wrong with you, chemically, that drugs wont make worse. The mind is a complex and sensative instument. Don't expect to master yours without some attention and effort. No pill can do that for you.
Really, when you work with large amounts of tech types - programmers, engineers, scientists, admins, similar personality types emerge. Most tech types are slightly to severely introverted, highly focused in one area, some are slightly (even severely) autistic, and would rather work with their hardware, software, germs, than deal with large groups of people. A good tech/programmer manager will recognize these personality traits and use them to their advantage to get the job done.
I once knew an engineer who was given a corner office where he worked with his door closed - always - he was a phantom - and yet produced some of the most advanced goods for whatever project he was working on. He did not know how to socialize at all. Management was unfazed, and gave him what he needed to produce - privacy.
I work with high school kids - here's a pair - one meticulous and efficient - the other very hyper and ADHD (thus this set him up to be bullied in school). ADHD got the all the little tasks and was the 'runner' for a lab we were putting in. (No, I wasn't giving him the crap jobs, his attention span didn't allow him to do anything that lasted more than a few minutes, and to burn all that extra steam, he was always sent to get things, or check things. Also, I did increase his tasks a few minutes at a time, to get him accustomed to it) Mr. meticulous was the organizer and planner. He was a little miffed at the end, when he felt he had accomplished more than the other. I reminded him that a good team takes all types, and if his team mate hadn't taken care of all the little things, he would not have had time to think about what he was doing, and get the job done on time.
It may seem funny to poke fun at tech guys and how they can't get a girl, but there is more to it than that. There are reasons for feeling good about hanging around in the lab versus the lounge. What keeps YOU there? Fear? Shyness? Anticipation of rejection? Slightly narcissistic? Limited social skills? Feel like you're on the outside looking in? Were you too, bullied in school? I think it is difficult to find a more diverse array of personalities, some of the quirkiest found, and also the kindest and most intelligent, than you will find in the tech field.
Well, while not diagnosed with ADHD, having ADD isn't that bad for me, I mean its made my relationships suffer, but being immersed in my computer world (office network, home network) keeps me sane.
Everything else in the world can go away once I "zone out" on the monitor, hours melt. This is great for work on the PC, but horrible for tasks outside the realm of the PC (like other office chores) So what I've done is to lave a radio on, a particularly evil radio station, that annys the hell out of me. Makes me want to get up and walk around to get away from it.
And as far as a relationship? Forget it, I get home, BAM, right on the machine for another 5-6 hours.
------------
Abandon hope, all ye who post here...
I am. A Digital Monk.
thats Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Munchausen syndrome has different symptoms but is the same bit of the brains processing thats all messed up.
Even been a "little puffy" in the modern world means you're overweight.
You eat *too much*, and you don't exercise.
Your body is falling apart, and our modern cure is to take drugs.
You could be cured with less food and hard physical work.
Munchausen syndrome involves inducing medical problems to get attention, normally in onesself. You're talking about Munchausen syndrome by proxy.
Except that Caffeine isn't a controlled substance and is so safe that you can give it to children with no side effects.
Nobody knows the long-term consequences of long-term Ritalin in children and nobody wants to know because it destroy a multi-billion dollar industry.
I find it ironic that the kids push the dual message of "Say no to drugs" and "Say yes to drugs for children who can't sit still". I'm not the only person who sees the not-so-subtle irony here.
Slashdot posters have such refined senses of humor that I have all "Funny" comments knocked down by a -2 modifier so I don't waste my time with them. To paraphrase JWZ's famous comment about Linux, Slashdot is funny only if you're not terribly smart (or still in high school). [ducks] [karma sinks like a rock]
One simple rule for its versus it's
One thing I never hear people consider is that ADHD could be an effect of a higher than average intelligence.
You are exactly right. One of the processess for diagnosis of ADHD in children is a questionaire, and the questionaire used to diagnos ADHD is almost exactly like the questionaire used to diagnos GIFTED Children!
I am not trying to insult anyone that has ADHD, thinks they have ADHD, and/or uses any ADHD drugs to "fix" themsleves. But the drugs used to "fix" ADHD are very powerful phsyco-stimulents. They are more powerful then Cocaine, and are also Schedual II drugs along with Cocaine! Ritalin kills many, many children a year, and over 50 other real conditions exert some of the same symptoms as ADHD.
Also a side note, taking psycho-stimulants after the age of 12 is grounds for refusal of admintance into the military in the US.
The worst part of being athiest.... You don't have anyone to talk to during orgasm!
Teachers today are lazy. They expect cookie-cutter-like behavior of their kids. They expect them to be compliant, quiet, and only be distracted at recess.
The ADHD label is given to any kid who is >different in such a way that it causes the teacher to actually have to maintain displine in the class.
Today's teacher's are so pampered, they seriously believe they work hard. What a joke. Easiest job on the planet these days.
"A lot of easy jokes have been made here, and frankly they all suck."
No, you suck because:
1) You're looking for an easy answer.
2) You're overweight
3) You don't exercise
4) You always think there's a magical answer for all your problems.
5) You refuse to acknowledge that people are different and that some people will have to work all their lives at adapting and fitting into the modern world.
6) Instead, you now have a diagnosis that makes is "OK" to act a certain way. From some people it even gets you sympathy and validation.
7) Grow up and take responsibility for your life. Acknowledge that life isn't fair and that you have to learn to deal with it.
Ignore the drugs. Enhance your concentration with coffee and meditation. Find ways to turn ADHD into an advantage, a way your way of thinking and doing things can be augmented and supplimented to make you into a more efficient person. Learn to channel your extra energy towards your work.
If you can pull this off, as I have, you can manage to be more productive with less effort, and you won't have to bother yourself with taking the wonderkind ritalin(which I am certain has become something of a parental placebo these days).
It's been a long time.
I have ADD, dyslexia and chronic migraines. I have found 5-HTP to be helpfukl with both the ADD and the migraines. I also have a prescription for midrin for the migraines, but I find myself having fewer migraines per month if I take the 5-HTP before bed. I wake up more rested and find that I am better able to concentrate during the day.
Question: Does anyone know of any sort of correlation study between patients with ADD and patients with migraines? Are you more likely to have migraines with ADD or vice-versa?
Whew! That's quite a regimen! I sure hope you are loading yourself with all these chemicals under the close supervision of a doctor!
A problem here in the US was that people tend to equate "vitamins" and "natural" with "SAFE." They would treat one symptom with one thing, only to discover another "symptom" and treat it with another which would "uncover" another "symptom."
What was really happening was they were overloading their body chemically, and reacting to all the stuff they were taking. In some cases, they were overdosing, and aggravating that condition by taking something else, only to be overdosing on that as well. At the same time, their bodies were desperately trying to regain control over the body chemistry and releasing and absorbing other things, resulting in worse conditions.
The end result would be someone who was manic, labeled as a hypochondriac, and needed to take a different pill for every different activity just to function. Blue pill to wake up, Red pill to sleep, green pill to eat, purple pill to think, orange pill to watch TV, brown pill to go to the bathroom...
I know a number of people who go through this. Some are under the strict care of a doctor and are doing quite well. Others have tried the "natural" self-treatment and are not doing well, sitting at home clutching their knees and rocking back and forth in a corner twitching like an addict in withdrawl.
Your description sounded like a person I knew from the second group, and that got me a bit concerned. Treating severe ADHD -- especially when coupled with a possible bipolar disorder -- is a very delicate matter. Getting the medication right is a lot like using a match to light your way in a dynamite factory.
Sorry if I sounded preachy. I wish you the best and hope you can regain your balance. This is a tough thing to go through.
Just my $.02 but I've quit taking 5-HTP because if GIVES me brutal headaches. It was very effective re: stress and depression, but I found I'd rather be depressed than clutching my head in agony.
You took the time to write down what I sincerely believe to be true. You nailed it.
Thank you. I am going to clip this and show it to people when they talk about their kids having ADHD.
I'm not falling for that one, Mr.BOFH.
My doctors have had me on just about every type of med throughout my life, now that i am 30 i have come upon the organic solution, ganja and coffee, the true organic speedball. listen to some aphex twin while drinking some expresso and blazing a phatty always does the trick for my attention span.
Somehow I think a lot of ADHD patients are mistaken for people in severe stress situations.
I read a lot of replies and it seemed all to familiar to some extend. Only these symptoms are in my case only limited to stress situations like exams etc...
During stress periods I have periods of extreme productivity followed by crashing (during exams I favor doing that after rather then before the test). Moodswings are a daily thing, you sleep like shit or you can't get up. jada jada jada...
Maybe some people should do some selfassesment if it comes to stress before they pop some pills. I once in a while do it myself but I try to avoid it. Doing sport can relieve a lot of stress and could prevent being hyperactive or could wake you up from those dull moments.
I used to take Concerta for my ADHD, until I upped my Mountain Dew usage :). Mas Mountain Dew amigos! w00t w00t!
I'm pleased to see that you've demonstrated a good grasp of the biochemistry behind some cases of depression... NOT.
I'm open to the idea that they're over-prescribed, but they're sometimes appropriate, OK?
Seriously though...
I have also been diagnosed with ADD. I don't believe in medicating the problem at all. Who knows what effects these drugs are going to have fifty or so years down the road?
I prefer to take a more philosophical approach and view it as a form of evolution. I think that the 'condition' itself might be the side-effect of our minds trying to cope with the fast-paced world of today. I don't know much about cases of this in the past, but I recall reading an article about how incidents of it are more common now.
For better concentration, I think that some form of meditation is in order. Although Zen is not meditation per se, it greatly helps with concentration with the side benefit of eventual enlightenment:) The bottom line is that it all lies in controlling your mind and becoming aware of the processes that are causing you problems. I sincerely believe that control can be achieved without medicine.
It's not really a question of "taking the easy way out", as we're not just talking about taking Ibuprofen to mask a headache here, we're talking about ALL drugs.
That was classic intercourse!
Traditionally ADHD has been treated with stimulants (specifically amphetamines, such as ritalin, adderol, etc.). Newer drugs are slowly coming to market such as (non-stimulant, non-addictive) atomoxetine (brand name: strattera). The psychiatrist I rotated with two months ago absolutely raved about it, so I looked it up. Several more similar medications are currently in the FDA approval process, and should be on the market shortly. While amphetamines work, I would be scared to use them long term - consider switching to something else in a couple of years...
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
It's pretty sad the amount of kids on drugs for having short attention spans. Sometimes I don't like staring at the same thing too long, either. I get into the quick-satisfaction of doing things fast, quickly, etc...
-- Liberalism is a mental disorder.
I guess it's because I forgot to take my Adderall-XR yesterday morning, but I fell asleep ealier than normal last night.
I can go into the whole thing here, but I think one of the most interesting things I noticed about this topic is the large number of responses.
ADD/ADHD is real, I have it, and I continue to deny that I have it. (Ain't nothing wrong with this brain.. yeah right.) Forgetfulness, time-insensitivity, lack of attention to detail, easily distractable, you name it, I have most of the symptoms. I am reading a medical book, I think the one by Halloran, and one of the most interesting things that they point out is that adults with it tend to have a funny fidget:
The meds have helped tremendously, and having a coach has also helped me. We recently hired a guy who has it but isn't on meds yet. We discuss it, and I think he should try the Adderall-XR.
I was on the twice a day dosage, and it was harder to deal with, as I had two crashes a day. Now, I only come down at the end of the day, and it is easier.
If you take the self-assessment and score high, go talk to a professional, and see if you can come up with a program (behaivior modification/meds) that can help you. It helped me.
I had a sig, but
Count me in the group of folks who believe that ADHD is a false disease, created to explain symptoms of boredom, creativity, and active-child-syndrome. The "disease" has been cured, in many cases, with an improved diet. In many other cases, the symptoms went away when the educational environment changed to include more creativity and interactivity, with less boredom. Do diseases go away when someone other than the victim changes their routine?
Now that parents are starting to question Ritalin, and Ritalin use isn't growing as fast as it was a while back, we're suddenly finding adults with ADHD.
Don't be fooled. Study up. Look at the ill effects of Ritalin. Read the recent study by the International Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology that questioned whether ADHD was real. Examine the diet of the "victim" of the "disease" to see if it is lacking.
Are they trying to pin ADHD on your kid? If so, your kid is probably more intelligent, more active and more easily bored (because of all those video games, eh?) than the other kid. Your kid is probably being drugged for the convenience of the teacher (imho, ianad). Maybe you should consider homeschooling, to better meet the educational needs of your child.
I have a bad attitude about government schools drugging children into a good-citizen-mode.
Visit Lockjaw's Lair. He won't bite.
This one of the more tollerable postings for this thread, thank you. When people claim that ADD doesn't exist or that they claim, "Oh well that happens to me too, maybe I have ADD.", it's really hurtful. You're right, people don't understand ADD to its extent. They are right, I'm sure they do experience some of what are considered symptoms of ADD/ADHD, but if they only knew the SEVERITY that I experience. I've been living with my girlfriend for the past 3 years and she says that it's OBVIOUS that I have ADD. The guy that she dated before me also had ADD, but she says that with my symptoms' severity she truely understands the disorder. I would just like to contribute my story, so that others in similar situations can learn from my experiences.
I am currently 25 and I was diagnosed the Summer of 1997 between my Freshman and Sophomore years at College. The main signs that the psychologist pointed out for the diagnosis were the fact that I was intelligent in High School, claiming not having to study much, above average SAT scores (1310 best of both taken twice) with a large difference in the Math and Verbal scores (>150 point spread between, higher math), and a high score on the administered IQ test. There were concentration based tests that showed the severe lack of attention when given a simple task.
I was prescribed Ritalin (in increasing doses from 5mg-3times daily to 20mg 3 times daily, which is a strong dose I've been told) over the course of the following year. I also had weekly meetings with the school psychologist about how the meds were working and how I was feeling both physically and mentally. I have to admit, I was MUCH happier. Not only being able to use the brain that I have, but I was just generally happier with LIFE. I continued the sessions with the psychologist until he mysteriously disappeared one day and never returned (still don't now what happened).
I was accidemically dismissed after the first semester on Ritalin while my dosage wasn't enough, and was lucky enough to be re-admitted after writing explanation of my situation. I returned that spring and finally found the correct dosage. I was on FIRE, 3.75GPA at Midterm exams. Then I lost steam. I don't remember if I stopped taking the meds, or if my immaturity itself took a toll, or if the doctor's disappearance was to blame, but I ended up having to drop the 12 credits I was taking and leave school for good.
I enrolled in one of those year-long programs for Networking at a Tech School and passed that with flying colors (no studying). Another testiment to the "interest" factor in ADD. (people always say, "But you can spend hours, deep in thought, in front of the computer", ah, YES I CAN, that's part of the disorder)
For the past 5 years my personal life (aside from the girlfriend) has been severely affected. I work in computers and I play in computers, much like most of the "Techie" community. Any and all projects I take up on my own time seem to get pushed to the wayside for another, and nothing ever gets done. I can be so gung-ho about something one week, and just forget it's even there the next.
I now have employment in Information Technology and my interest keeps me focused for the most part. Some days are better than others, it sort of goes like a wave. I can be super driven for a few weeks and in a lull for a week or two, then I pick back up. Depression hasn't been an issue since my diagnosis. I feel that just knowing that I wasn't truely a slacker, or lazy and that I have "issues" that cause my behavior, made me feel at ease with the situation.
Here we are 5 years later and I feel that I'm ready to go back to school. Having not been on Meds for the last 5 years and "Getting By" without them, I start to wonder if I'll have an easier time getting through school this time around. I have loads of self-doubt, when it comes to my job and accademic performance lately and I just don't know what to expect. I guess I should speak with my doctor, and find out my options before freaking out about it.
-Thanks for reading
SDH
I have always been a person who was bored in school. Usually because I was way ahead of the other students. Some have thought that I had ADD because I get up and walk around and talk to people at work and do not sit and type code all day. I have tended to believe that it is more of having a ENTP personality on the MBTI. Yes, I get bored, but is it really a disorder or is just my natural personallity to be challanged. I wonder just how many people with ADD are really only show ing there true ENTP.
I was diagnosed 7 years ago, at age 38, with ADD. Ritalin 30mg/3 times a day, sustained release, works very well for me. This isn't a starting dose, just what I eventually worked up to. I went from a 10 second attention span to being able to focus on a single project for hours at a time. Heaven. I am neither more nor less intelligent / creative than I was, just able to apply my abilities more effectively. After 7 years I have found that skipping a dose is not as problematic as it was at the beginning, I've learned to carry a thought longer on my own, but I still do better with the medication.
People with ADD/ADHD tend to have certain characteristics including an emotional hypersensitivity, and the ability to focus well in a single area.
One reason people often don't think they have ADD/ADHD is that there is usually an area where they can focus for long periods of time, reading, painting, building something, etc. "If I can focus for an hour on writing a program I can't have ADHD, I must just be ". However the ability to focus in a single area doesn't carry over to other areas.
If you have never been severely depressed, as I have, you cannot understand the enormous crushing weight of despair involved. People who haven't experience this simply don't understand. As with anything subjective and powerful it must be experienced to be understood. Until relatively recently depression was considered a purely 'mental' problem that should be treated with analysis, but now we know it has a bio-chemical basis, is often hereditary, and can, and should, be treated with medication. We know this from experience and research even though the medical root causes of depression are not yet entirely understood. You don't have to completely understand a condition, and we usually don't, to be able to effectively treat it.
In a similar fashion, if you haven't experienced the frustration and confusion of ADD/ADHD you can't really understand what it is like. The enormous effort that goes into doing anyting, the frustations, failures, and knowledge you could do so much better 'if only'. Saying "Just focus" to someone with with ADD/ADHD is like saying "Just feel better" to someone who is depressed, or "Make more Insulin" to someone who is diabetic. It's more than just ignorant, it's cruel.
An easy way to diagnose ADD/ADHD is simply to give someone who is suspected of having the condition a small dose of Ritalin. The drug is in and out of your system fairly quickly and the effects are often quite dramatic. For me it was like someone flipped a switch and turned on a part of my mind I had never been able to use before.
Some say ritalin and other such medications are just a crutch. Perhaps, but if you have a broken leg a crutch can be the correct tool to use.
I make a tea of St. John's Wort annd Mugwart everyday.
I also have my own laptop and try to keep notes of everything on it, so I don't forget.
I've seen Ritalin being sold on the street and consumed by the same crowd that later got in to inhaling methamphetamine. You are consuming a *dangerous* drug and ADHD is not a temporary thing.
Wellbutrin is an even more subtle demon. If you've got the slightest hint of a substance abuse problem you're standing on a very slippery slope every time you put one of those things in your mouth.
ADHD is masively over diagnosed - many times it is PADD - parental attention deficit disorder. Are you *certain* you're not in this category?
I'd try *everything* in the book and make stuff up on my own before I'd accept that diagnosis. I score high on every adult ADHD indicator except 'robbery with confrontation' and my solution was not more chemicals - I just rearranged my career so that my possible 'disorder' became an asset.
If you can't focus around distractions(people) but you hyperfocus and get a lot done on your own, work yourself into a position where this does you good
I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid. -Theo
One need only conduct the following exercises.
A) diet
B) oh look a squirrel hee hee hee
How have you coped with ADHD, and how have you found it affect your work performance?
I've found that ADHD can actually be a blessing for anyone in the IT industry. As many people know, there is *always* something to do in just about every IT department in the world. Take 3-tier system development - you've got the client piece, the middleware and the data source. Developing each of these three pieces require a different mindset. Bouncing from the DB to the front-end to the middleware back to the DB etc. just came naturally to me.
Don't use it as a crutch - spin it to your advantage.
Smithy, do you take anything, like acidophilus, to help you digest all those pills? If so, I'd be interested in hearing.
I went on chemotherapy for a platelet proliferation disorder in 1995 or so. It is called malignant by some doctors and benign by others, but definitely isn't metastatic. I researched my condition, found the expert researcher in the field, and made an appointment with him at the Mayo clinic. When I got back from there with a recommendation to go off chemo, my hematologist in Berkeley took his other three patients with the condition off of chemo as well. I am still symptom-free today. And I am a father now, but would probably have gone sterile if I stayed on chemo.
And this is just one of my three medical horror stories, another of which is a hyperactivity diagnosis in my youth with which I would take issue today, and the third of which is a motor speech and movement deficit that it took until I was 18 years old for me to beat. But I have beat all of these things.
You must fully engage in your medical care, and be the main person driving it. Not your doctor, you.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
I was diagnosed with ADD in high school about 12 years ago. They prescribed Dexedrine, which is similar to all the other ADD drugs. I found I was less creative and really did not feel like myself when taking the drugs. I got off them about a year after I started. I dealt with it by working harder at paying attention to what I was doing. Whenever I would loss focus I would try a shake it off and continue. Working at a job you like and coffee helps.
Wow, my Doc said not to touch the stuff.
I never took drugs for mine, but I trained myself to work responsibly, and pay attention... Of course I ended up getting jobs in security, where my focus always changes, to commercial diving, where it is imperative for your life to stay focused. I just jump around alot, and lose track of project ideas for a few minutes, sometimes, but that's it now. screw drugs
I was diagnosed with ADD when I was 12. I am now 24, and while I have learned to cope somewhat, it is a hinderance in some areas and a blessing in others. Sometimes I can't switch my attention when I need to. Sometimes I pay attention to too many things at once, for example, it can be hard for me to pay attention to someone talking in a crowded room, because I am tuning into multiple conversations. For the same reasons I think I am able to notice details that many miss, and I think that sometimes when I am working really hard I am able to focus at a more intense level, because I can't switch my attention to other distractions. I stopped taking medications for ADD, because I found intense exercise to work just as well in controlling it, without the side effects (eating, sleeping irregularities). Not only did I have to learn how to focus during the exercise, but the hormones and healing process afterwards will help anyone in any situation be more level, controlled, and focused. This goes for depression as well... Go ahead and take meds because they can definately help, but without regular exercise, you *will* slip back into the depression eventually. As for ritilin, it may be that you will never learn how to cope with ADD unless you see what it feels like to be able to pay attention. Try it out. If it doesn't work or has too many side effects, try another.
You obvisously have no idea what you are talking about. See this link here:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/events/pradhd.htm
That's all that needs to be said.
At least he's not a pill-popping moron who buys every bit of psycho-babble that his ARTS prof.(psyche)...talk about waste of space..ppffhhhttt
I've had ADHD for approx. half my life. Ritalin (and other drugs) while they do help can feel almost like walking around with a crutch. I'm also one of those crazy people who hate popping pills. I've found a number of things that either help with the symptoms are work their way around them. A few help stuff. Caffiene is your friend. Ritalin is basically a stimulant. I've found controlled intake of caffiene actually have a similar effect as the Ritalin. The amount goes up and down during the month. Sometime it's a can of pepsi (or coke) every 3 hours, sometime it is more. The up side is that you don't have to take pills, or worry about co-workers (or boss) finding out you're taking them. The downside is 1. the calories (go diet) and 2. The cost. How many of us have a mini-fridge to put store bought pop? Another thing that helps is exercise. I've found a 30 minute walk in the morning, a walk on my lunch break, and a walk in the evening helps dramatically. The theory is "stimulation." ADHD aren't really attention deficiet, rather they simply pay attention to too many things at once. If something is stimulating you, your brain has a tendancy to "hyper focus." Thus finding little activities that help you be "stimulated" can darmatically decrease the attention issue. Exercise also helps with the hyperactivity. As for work arounds. This probably is different for every person. But I have found my 3 great weaknesses are 1. Remember tasks, particularily the ones I don't like or find boring. 2. Keep Organized and 3. Procrastination (I tend to automatically steer myself to activities I find more stimulating than what I HAVE to do). To compensate I use lists. LOTS of lists. And I'm very specfic. Saying I will be making phone calls from 8 to 9am, following working a press release for 9 to 9:30. Etc etc. Granted these tend to change but just making a strict schedule that you force yourself to adhere to helps.s I also don't let myself get too unorganized. I clean my desk and my files 3 times a day. Once in the morning to get everything I need for the day, once close to lunch like a "mini" break, and once at the end of the day. It's a pain in the butt, but I'm able to find almost everything... almost. Finally, I remove anything and everything I think will distract me too long. The strict schedule helps. I'll put the stuff I really hate to do after a short project I want to do. Sometimes I break those hateful projects up into little chunks to make them easier to swallow. I would talk to your doctor. Diet, and exercise can have a dramtic effect on ADHD symptoms. At times more so than taking medication.
If you want Omega 3, do it the fun way, tell 'em you have to eat Sushi three times a week and load up on the smoked salmon and tuna!
Darthtuttle
Thought Architect
That's like asking someone if they object to having SARS. Of course they object!
Ah am not a crook! (\(-__-)/)
who cannot sit still while being fed bullshit at school?
I bet any talented kid could have been diagnozed and it her/his luck if they were not!!!
Ok, this is ridiculous. I've seen far too many posts saying the equivalent of: "ADHD doesn't exist, these people are just lazy."
Well, it DOES exist, it's a simple fact. Just look here:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/events/pradhd.htm
There really shouldn't need to be anything said beyond that.
People that say those with ADHD are simply lazy are as ignorant as someone who would tell and parapalegic to stop whining and just get up and walk, or tell a blind person to stop groping around for christ's sake and just look where you're going...
1) as to the idea the ADHD is or isn't a disorder.
;)
Any first year psychology book will tell you that a disorder is a intentionally vague term that is supposedly innately understood, something like the mathematical construct of a set but with fewer easily discernible characteristics. As such it is impossible to scientifically prove that ANYTHING is or isn't a disorder because there are NO concrete criteria for a disorder. Psychologies attempt to classify everything into being a disorder or not a disorder is one of the greatest travesties of modern science.
2) many people who at first are thought to have ADHD have been shown to actually have dyslexia.
One characteristics of most dyslexics is high intelligence which means they get easily board by
mundane tasks.
3) may i make a suggestion. rather then trying to treat your bodies adaptation to a rapidly changing world by diminishing it have you tried
USING it to your advantage. Why not alternate back and forth between 2 or three things at a time while you are at work. If you developed a good habit of this you will probably get more work done then your co-workers and please your boss. Maybe one of your tasks can be work, another learning a foreign language and the third slashdot. ( i've been known to do that sometimes
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
There's a lot of talk here about using psychoactive medication. My advice is to get a psychologist, and a good one who's smarter than you. A Md. or Psychiatrist's job is going to be to manage medication for you, which has very little to do with actual results and monitoring the effects. Most people are pretty bad at doing this for them selves. I'm told I'm pretty self aware about these things and I still rely on a psychologist, and she helps me out a lot where the psychiatrist looks at only "is the problem fixed" the psychologist addresses the whole mental state.
...fish oil. Another thing to look at is physical activity. Try weight lifting three times a week. You don't have to list weights to build a huge body, but try doing enough to keep your activity level up. After a month of those two I found increadable changes in my mental state in areas ranging from attetion to mood. You will probably have different results, but see what they are.
The reason to use one would be to help monitor the changes the drugs cause in you. Many of the side effects are subtle and not well documented. The point in taking the medication is to alter your mental activity (help with concentration in the case of people with ADD/ADHD, but what else is it doing to you?
Personaly I don't like taking medication for mental health problems. There are times when I do, and times when I think anyone should, but it's a personal choice. Understand that while your mental activity is causing you problems consider the downsides to taking the drugs, and consider alternatives. A psychologist can help monitor the changes when going on/coming off a drug and help spot the subtle ones.
What alternatives? Everyone has a favorite. I don't like any solution that involves "take this pill", be it a psychoactive medication or a "natural" substance. Instead I look to factors that affect the mental states and adjust them to see the results. Some amazing results can happen when you change your diet. For example, instead of taking pills for Omega 3 fatty acids, try eating more fatty fish like tuna and salmon or Vietnamese cuisine where fish oil is heavily used. Guess where the Omega 3 pills come from...
Darthtuttle
Thought Architect
I saw a recent British study that came to the conclusion that about 50% of patients (children) diagnosed with ADD/ADHD were just not getting enough sleep. Seems like a common theme in these posts. IANADr but it seems like exercise and a good nights sleep couldn't hurt. BTW: I would have been diagnosed ADD when I was young but it wasn't in vogue at the time. I do know that if I don't get 8 hours of sleep I still experience these symptoms.
Telling a ADHD person to concentrate is like telling a depressed person not to cry, because it's all in their mind.
Being ADD, It's frustrating. Half the time you sit in class, and you're bored out of your mind as you read 50 pages ahead in the book. Then the teacher gets mad at you for reading ahead as she helps some poor kid sound out a word.
The other half of the time, you may know the GIST of the problem, you can see the theoretical foundation. You know how all the equations operate, what they MEAN in reality, but forget to carry that 2, and you'll get 50% of the score of the kid who has no feel for the math, but can push numbers properly.
I mean, I literally SAW the non-deterministic state machine in class when we went over them in a graduate level CS course. It was perhaps the most vivid mental image ever, seeing how it executes gives rise to the math that describes it's behaviour. I ended up explaining it to half class. But damn, don't miss those symbols on the test....
It was like when Paul Atreides could see all those possible futures. ADD people tend to be forest people, and often forget the trees.
"Has a deep understanding of the concepts, but some weakness with mechanics" Review from my professor after my QM course.
But mechanics can be learned, by practice. I hated looking at my math tests, and seeing no or partial credit because I messed up a simple operation. I learned to run through the test once, take a breather, and then run through again, doublechecking all my math.
ADHD is not a death knell for schooling. One can adapt, and learn adaptive techniques. Just remember that the way YOU learn is not WRONG, just different. All that matters is you learn. And if you teacher is big on "The proper way to learn", well you're in for a lot of pain. Most teachers want their kids to learn, you've just got to find a way to help.
Even with all these putative benefits, it's amazing how much one WANTS to fit in.
"Why can't I just sit down and learn like everyone else? Why am I different, am I broke? Am I bad?"
No, just a little odd....
When I stick to the above rules, I do better. YMMV though.
I was on ritalin, I used to 'learn' how to concentrate, and learned to flick the switch when needed. I don't use it anymore, as ceffiene seems to work just as well. ( I was on 2.5-5mg a day, not a large does of Ritalin ).
It is possible to learn concentration.
First, let me preface: I'm the non-hyperactive type. I gave up trying to say "ADD" or "ADHD" long ago because the community kept reversing what they meant for a while. Does the H mean With or Without? It got rediculous for a while, so I always say "non-hyperactive ADD". Some of you are chuckling because you've seen this too. Obviously the people involved in the nomenclature had, shall we say, a self-interest in the field...
Now, had ADD helped my in my job? Yes, but it made life hard until I got the medication right. I'm a software engineer and a die-hard architect. I've found that I have a ability to be creative and intuitive in a way that baffles some people. I can think in a very small scale or a very large scale or somewhere in-between. In many cases I can switch between them with ease. I have to work hard to maintain consistency though. I wouldn't envy someone looking over my shoulder who was trying to follow my thought processes - I work in what must seem like (and sometimes IS) a random-order. And I'm still very oversensitive to people making a lot of noise around me when I'm working. But what I describe is the way I work now after many phases of meds and maybe 7 years of knowing about this little acronym.
When I was diagnosed in college (after failing more classes than I would like to remember), I first tried Ritalin. No effect at various doses. I tried Dexedrine. That worked, but had an enormous variability in effect from day to day. My mood was very unpredictable, but the Dexedrine helped me enough that I could re-take my failed classes and get my Bachelor's in CScience. I got through an internship and a couple of years of my first programming job. I could concentrate more, but the variability was very hard on me.
Along came Adderol (or however you spell it). It was a gigantic improvement. The effect is much more consistent from day to day. It's still not perfect, though, and lags a lot on some rainy/stormy days. Unfortunately, that's nothing that I've ever been able to pinpoint scientifically, so you might take that as my personal quirk. The combination of the amphetamine & dextroamphetimine seems to make a big difference in effect. One thing that was a pain was having to take pills in the middle of the day before the extended-release version came out. I'd realize that I was getting fairly air-headed and distractable and think "Hmm, it must be time for more meds." It even took a long time with Adderol to get the dosage right.
Two factors have been completely, vitally important in my trials with ADD: an *excellent* ADD doctor who had ADD himself (past tense because he sadly passed away last year), and fairly strict medication management. It takes a good year to really learn the latter - everyone that I've known that has control over their ADD basically seems to agree with that. It's not as easy as it sounds to take a medication every morning, keeping a mental note of when the medication will wear off based on how long it lasts for you. That's not as important with the extended release, but it was awefully important with the regular pills. As for a doctor, the importance can't be understated. Too many doctors misdiagnose, prescribe the wrong meds (and don't figure out that they're not right), and just generally don't have a clue. I've found that the good ones seem to have ADD themselves - it seems like no one without ADD quite understands what ADD means from the inside. The good ones also seem to be actively researching and writing papers.
This is getting long and I need to go to a meeting in 5, so I'll finish quickly with 2 more thoughts: the side effects for me are dry mouth/horrific breath and some appetite suppression. The latter is helpful, the former is unpleasant but a fairly small price for the benefits. I don't notice any lack of creativity when I'm on meds. YMMV. Also, I've found that I still need caffeine in the morning to give me a kickstart. Go figure.
Lastly, I'm always looking for new research/info in t
I've had it all my life and it has not affected me seriously (outside of the fact I could never do homework and I always had As on tests).
I don't care if I annoy the normals - I told my doctor that they may not implement chemical forms of social engineering on me. If merely on the off chance it screws with my brain chemistry so I may no longer hyperfocus.
The funny thing is that, in my experience, people with ADHD work far faster with better resulting quality than normal people. Therefore, I am amazed that companies don't seek people with ADHD specifically, especially for technical work.
The downside is that normal work bores us, so we're only useful for interesting projects and we cannot be kept in long meetings. It's worth the 5-minute fix that saves 6 months of re-coding a poorly designed piece of software, trust me.
ADD should be medicated (lack of attention without hyperfocusing). ADHD should be treated as a gift/talent in all but outrageously severe cases.
Sounds that way. Incredibly useful as a programmer or hacker. But it can be handicapping. It is one explanation of the high caffiene intake of programmers, esp accompanied by the observation that many of us(programmers) build tolerance/dependance to caffiene quickly, and reach the point where a liter of dew can be drunk directly before falling asleep with no perceptable adverse consequences.
It can also be debilitating if you put something on the stove, and then solve that software bug and go to code it and next thing you know. smoke alarm tweeting.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
I have been diagnosed with ADD for 12 years or so i have been on almost ever medication. You SHOULDN'T use Ridalin. Ridalin for one is one of they oldest medications for ADD. Ridalin can also be addictave. There is a new medication out, it has only been out for a couple of mounths it is STRATTERA. Strattera is not an amphetamine, since i have been using iti ave been much better than when i was using any other medication
ADHD isn't a disorder, it's more of a type of personality, you might notice that computers (assuming you're a geek) or anything you enjoy can hold you attention with no problem. It's just the other stuff - stuff not of your choosing, may seem to bore you. In this boredom, you get "off-topic" and you begin to think about other topics.
/.ers'. ;)
Sounds like a quite a few of the
I am completely confident that I will be able to succeed in life, but I also know there are some things you just should not do if you have ADHD. One of them is enlisting in the military. It's doable - I'm a Sergeant right now, but it's a complete pain in the ass. I'm fine on the concentration part now. It's taken a lot of ass chewings and misunderstandings but I'm trained pretty well on that. The hard part is the boredom. Months and even years of doing things you could care less about in sterile environments with no chance to let any energy out. Basically it's like sleeping and constant torture. I think anyone with this "condition" can find something they like to do and can be extremely good at it. But the military? Prepare for hell in the form of boredom.
Standard psychiatric lies are told to parents and teachers about ADD. A psychiatrist might tell the parent, "There seems to be a chemical imbalance in the brain which needs to be corrected with medication."
http://www.ritalindeath.com/links.htm
At the very least it sounds scientific, if not omnipotent.
Yet the parent can debunk it with one simple question: "Have you done a chemical test or a biopsy (a procedure wherein a piece of body tissue is taken and analyzed) and found a chemical imbalance?"
It is guaranteed that answer will be, "No."
"Will you do one?" the parent should ask.
The likely answer again is, "No."
So much for the authoritative pronouncement of a "chemical imbalance."
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http://www.cchr.org/educate/loc2.htm
I was diagnosed with add in my early teens, adderol (spelling I know) worked excellent whereas ritilan and others did not... i was suddenly able to concentrate again and my grades rose steadly from 1 or 2.x to 3.x or 4.x gpa... a rather significant benchmark improvement. unfortunatly adderol "sped me up" to much so I am also in the process of trying other things. omega three did not help much, and I am waiting to try stratera, a new and different type of add medicine that should not having the speeding up of adderol. as far as group work I find it easier then lectures (class) but in the workfield it helps to have someone that understands the condition to work with that can help to keep one on track when they lose sight of their objectives. technical abilities, I find are hindered... I can't see the solutions without an ADD medicine. and reading up for certifications without meds? impossible. time will tell how things unfold from here but I hope this helps
... is what you need. But be careful, use it too much and you might start thinking Phil Collins is good instead of TIM-TIM-TIMMY!!
On another note: I am the only person I know who has not been diagnosed with having ADD or ADHD. What percentage of those tested come up positive?
In my experience, it seems like folks with ADD seem to be drawn to each other. We appreciate each other's creativity and can tolerate each other's quirks.
I've also noticed a staggering number of ADD folks in technical fields such as software development. Has anyone else noticed this?
First off I applaud you for having the courage to post this.
Second. Iâ(TM)m appalled at some of the beliefs that some of you have.
I have ADD and have been undergoing treatment of one kind or another for 28 years.
ADD/ADHD is a very REAL disorder and it is VERY REAL to me and others who have it.
Let me give you an example of what itâ(TM)s like having ADD.
Fill a room with 100 TVs.
Have each one on a different channel.
Have them all at full volume.
Now sit in the middle of the room and try to pick out the Discovery Channel and learn something NEW!
Canâ(TM)t concentrate?
Overwhelmed?
That is what every day is like for me. Every sound, movement, and thought distract you from the âoetask at handâ.
People with ADD/ADHD have certain portions of their brains âoeover-clockedâ and others âoeunder-clockedâ. The âoenoiseâ from the overactive portions âoedrowns outâ the under active parts. The medications used are intended to âoenormalizeâ brain activity across all areas of the brain by slowing some areas down or by speeding others up.
Too bad the moderators modded up posts from the ignorant and uninformed. Like the ADHD doesnâ(TM)t exist or canâ(TM)t be proved posts. Following the same logic bi-polar, dyslexia, and schizophrenia donâ(TM)t exist either.
Go read www.brainplace.com and www.amenclinic.com to get the lowdown on brain activity, brain functionality connection.
Neurological Lesson from www.brainplace.com:
People with ADD/ADHD have problems with the PREFRONTAL CORTEX SYSTEM (PFC) of the Brain.
PFC Functions:
attention span
perseverance
planning
judgment
impulse control
organization
self-monitoring and supervision
problem solving
critical thinking
forward thinking
learning from experience and mistakes
ability to feel and express emotions
influences the limbic system
empathy
internal supervision
If you have problems with the PFC here are some symptoms.
short attention span
distractibility
lack of perseverance
impulse control problems
hyperactivity
chronic lateness, poor time management
poor organization and planning
procrastination
unavailability of emotions
misperceptions
poor judgment
trouble learning from experience
short term memory problems
social and test anxiety
lying
Sometimes I wonder where all these "disorders" are coming from. We seem to get a new one every month or so. I doubt most of these "disorders" are problems at all, more likely our culture is so fucked up and favors only certain personality types or behaviours which some people cannot cope with.
Best thing about ADHD is that you can get a doctor to prescribe Provigil. These are the military 'go pills' that allow you to only have to sleep every third day with no side effects.
Best.timeManagement.tool.EVAR!
Instead of writing one big long post I'll sum up the questions from the post and give a few suggestions based on my own Experiences with ADHD.
Have you tried natural alternatives such as DPA/EPA (Omega3), 5-HTP (natural precursor to serotonin), and what were your results?
First off, I would suggest looking at this PBS Frontline show about ADD/ADHD. Not only will this show give some insight into ADHD but there is a specific segment about how someone who doesn't have ADHD (or in their family too) convinced the Parents of an ADHD teen to try alternative methods. The results are pretty amazing. This is one of the reasons why I laugh when people who don't have ADHD try to push their views down people's throats. They will never know what it's like.
Here's the link. It's a pretty good show (Real Player is needed to watch):
I have tried just about every ADHD medicine on the market and have found that Metadate and Ritalin work for me. Metadate is a time released version of Ritalin as Ritalin only lasts about 4 hours or so (for me anyways).
How have you coped with ADHD, and how have you found it affect your work performance?
Anyways, my diagnosis for ADHD didn't come until College. I would study, and know the given course material forwards and backwards. However, I would consistently get low marks on my tests/quizzes. After a year of frustration, I took some time off school and eventually tested for ADHD.
One of the main characteristics of someone with ADHD is that they think 'out side the box' and not in the most typical logical sense as you non-ADHD'ers do. The best way to put it is if two people, one with ADHD and one without, were asked to create code for a simple solution of moving files on a server. Any method of coding could be used but you could only use Perl. The person without ADHD would create a few lines of code and would be similar, if not exact, to all other non-ADHD'ers. The person with ADHD would come up with one or more completely different ways to move the files that non-ADDers would have never thought of.
Keep this fact in mind, in regards to learning and education in the non-add world.
Schools, tests and whatnot are only designed to test one specific logical pattern of thinking. If you donâ(TM)t do well on a test, itâ(TM)s not a reflection of how smart you are or are not. In college, you almost always will not get tested to see if you know the material. You get tested on whether or not you can understand the professorâ(TM)s pattern of logic. These test results provide an answer of how well your non-add logical thinking is.
ADHD types, in non-ADHD schooling, need to take the extra time to decrypt (for lack of a better term) non-add logic, apply what ever concept youâ(TM)re learning to the decrypted non-add logic, and then translate it all to ADHD logic. This is the main reason I do not have an MCSE (or any other certification for that matter). These tests only apply to non-ADHD logic. ADHD people need to have extra time to take these tests and work through each question with the âdecryptionâ(TM) pattern noted above. Better yet, ADHD focused tests need to be created to be able to show non-ADHDers that they are just as smart, if not smarter than the rest.
Iâ(TM)ve tried many of the sample MCSE/Red Hat tests in the past and have never been able to finish half of the tests. Itâ(TM)s a bit frustrating. However, itâ(TM)s not as frustrating as the stories of people who take and pass certifications with out ever reading a book or touching any MS technologies. They just know how to take the sort of tests for the MCSE in their sleep. It makes me sick when I learn about MCSE certified people who never opened a book but knew how to ace the logic in these tests.
Iâ(TM)m going to be teaching myself C# and VBScript and itâ(TM)s going to take me some time to learn th
Save the World! Use a Quote!
its called natural selection. the weak die, the strong survive.
ADD is weird because the âoesymptomsâ include intelligence and creativity. Youâ(TM)ll find you can use it to your advantage if you manage it properly. The basic problem is a bit like multi-tasking with a computer; we donâ(TM)t task switch like everybody else. The part of ADD everybody focuses on is the underfocus; problems paying attention (especially when things get dull), but there is also an aspect Ratey calls âoehyperfocusâ. There have been times when Iâ(TM)m doing heads-down computer programming when I had to be physically touched for someone to get my attention. I couldnâ(TM)t break focus on what I was doing. Iâ(TM)ve also forgotten to go to lunch and missed meetings. That can actually be useful when youâ(TM)ve got a single task that needs doing, but can also get in the way. My solution to that was to get a PDA (I got a Visor but any PDA should do the trick) and program in alarms for everything I needed to remember.
The other problem is underfocus. The stimulants help here -- I take methylphenidate, the generic version of Ritalin -- but I find itâ(TM)s also helpful to doodle during meetings. It makes me look busy and keeps my mind from wandering off too far. Periodically Iâ(TM)ll write down what people are saying, even if I donâ(TM)t really care. Itâ(TM)s just a way to maintain focus when things really start to drag. Try to stay in the conversation and understand everything thatâ(TM)s going on. Donâ(TM)t babble just to talk, stay with the conversation even if the only thing you can do is to ask for explanations. What you need to avoid is those situations when the meeting wanders off onto other topics and your mind wanders off in a different direction. The danger is that the topic wanders back to stuff youâ(TM)re supposed to know about, and that someone will ask your opinion. Then youâ(TM)ll be in the embarrassing position of having to ask whatâ(TM)s going on. I hate it when that happens.
Also, lose the scraps of paper you have everywhere. I know youâ(TM)ve got âem; we all do. Get a set of hanging files and a filing cabinet. Every piece of paper needs to be either filed, digitized or pitched. If you want to keep it, label a hanging folder (and no fair making a âoeMiscellaneousâ folder) and keep it on file. If itâ(TM)s something you need on hand, it goes into the PDA (and back that thing up, youâ(TM)re life is going to be in it). Otherwise, it goes into the recycle bin.
Finally, I never tell anybody about my ADD. It's nobody else's business but my own and it's up to me to manage it. I don't want people to be guessing how they can help or what they can do. If you have a close friend, you might want to ask him to clue you in if he sees problems (that's Ratey's suggestion). Don't ask a spouse to do it. That just begs for trouble since it becomes fodder for any marital strife you may experience.
Good luck and hope this helps,
Jaywalk
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child and I kinda forgot about it. Is this possible, I mean, is it possible I could have this and not nottice it? I understand ADHD exists in degrees. Also, can someone cure from it? Please give serious answers.
But, additionally, you might want to consult a real, licensed nutrionist and/or allergist. Find out what kind of foods you should and shouldn't eat to keep you healthy. There are food allergies that will make you sick and tired. My daughter can't have foods from the nightshade family very often (tomatoes, peppers) and dairy. She can have some, just has to be kept moderate and only if she's healthy at that moment. Sucks-- limits our family pizza time. But, that is actually a good thing for all of us. :-)
Peanut butter is a real problem in schools. And it's not just the kids who are deadly allergic to peanuts, it's a "hyperactivity"-inducing agent. The sugars, the nuts... there are other foods that are bad for kids, and maybe bad for you.
"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas"
Sen. Davy Crocket to US Congress, Nov. 1, 1835
-nt
I know it's a little different, but there's a very interesting segment on npr today: here
I found this pretty informative for a lot statistics and health care information.
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
I have been coping with depression and mood swings, although I had serious problems with intermittent hyperactivity in high school, which I "grew out of". I am now 25 and still have difficulty with mood, etc. Heavy drug use complicated things as well.
... this was compounded by my shrink "firing me" for a variety of reasons. I hit the wall very very hard. The additional complication was that I was taking 5-HTP in the evening to help with sleep. As the dose of the Zoloft was supposed to be dropping in my body over the next two weeks I increased the amount of 5-HTP I was taking both in the morning and in the evening to about 250mg a shot. After the psychosis of the Zoloft cold-turkey (serious) began to subside I felt better for a couple of days, then all of a sudden I turned red, my body went up to about 105oF and I started hallucenating. My heart felt like it was going to explode. I got sent home from work and slept it off for a few days. My doctor told me in passing that it was probably serotonin syndrome and that I should have gone to Emerg.
In January 2002 my depression was at its worst and I decided to start doing more research into brain chemistry and try to start making some positive decisions. At this point I started refining various regimens similar to what you have been taking.
The most critical thing I have found is to get *enough* sleep and *enough* stimulation. Too much or too little sleep seems to throw *whatever* brain chemicals are present out of whack. Too much stimulation, stress or worry seems to do the same. You spoke of being emotionally flatlined -- well, if you are an extreme person you are going to cause this to happen.
I read a couple of online forums which have since disappeared which helped me get my vitamins in order -- I take a mineral + base vitamin supplement (Life Brand senior's vitamins, better mix of minerals than most "SUPER HIGH POTENCY" adult crap) then I add on C, B-50 Complex, E, Calcium+Mag+Zinc (very important if you are a sexually active male) and Salmon Oil. Occasionally I take a small amount of Ginkgo and Ginseng, both only in the morning.
In Feburary 2002 I was in a deep depression and I was put on a massive dose of Zoloft. Over the period of 1995 - 2002 I was on and off doses of zoloft up to 200mg. It made me a zombie, 100% impotent and the depression was still there. I would usually end up doing opiates or anaesthetics to just zonk my emotions out anyways. I started ramping the dose of Zoloft down but since I was working 3 jobs totalling around 70-80 hours a week in high stress conditions I wasn't getting alot of sleep either (this is very easy on a high dose of Zoloft. You just don't sleep.) I finally got sick of the constant withdrawl effects of zoloft and went cold turkey. THIS IS A VERY BAD IDEA
So just a warning. Don't mess around with SSRI's and 5-HTP (or l-tryptophan) and MOST IMPORTANTLY DO NOT TAKE St. JOHN'S WORT WTHIN 1 MONTH OF A LARGE SSRI DOSE!!!
Next Point. I have in the meantime reduced my "illegal" drug intake to nil, reduced my sugar and caffeine intake to almost nil, started sleeping at least 6hrs/night or more and started a sauna/cardio/weights program a few days a week. Over the year I helped the down bumps with 5-HTP and when I was over-stimulated I went for a run. Now when I get depressed or excitable it seems to be able to run itself out without drama in an hour like other people seem to do.
The problem is that in the meantime it can be a very long process to get to that point.
Remember, MORE dopamine and MORE serotonin are only sometimes the answer, sometime you just need a little tiny bump. A glass of red wine or some red meat can in some cases do WONDERS.
Anyways...
--- ask me about nihilism, I will have nothing to tell you.
Just like short temper is a personality trait, and manic depression is a personality trait.
Um...hate to break it to you...but manic depression is NOT a personality trait. If you've ever spent any significant amount of time with somebody who, unfortunatelly, had it, you would understand. Just because it's not as physical as broken limb doesn't mean it's any less real.
There is a solution to ~85% of people today with ADD/ADHD. less sugar/Carbs in your diet. People often overlook the obvious or are unaware of the effect diet has. I know many people who eat what they think is a low sugar diet. What they don't understand is Carbohydrates are just complex sugars. They are used by the body for sustained energy but taken in excess are just like eating raw sugar. So all those baked potatoes, (yes it should be spelled with an E) mac & cheese, rice, & pasta binges are just as much the cause of your sugar rush as that snickers. I am not discounting the ~15% of actual ADD among us just pointing out the flaw MANY Dr.'s make. I have diabetes and ADD and I attribute both to the fact I was a 5 Dew a day addict in high school. I believe it has cost me in lost education since, after getting my AASEE 13 years ago, it is only now that I am going back to school because I found it so hard to study. If you are a parent do your children a favor and balance their diet now!
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
You are falling into a common trap where many people who have no experience with different mind-related issues step. They say things like "you're depressed - stop feeling sorry for yourself!" and "drugs dull your mind". Basic observation demonstrates that drugs do have an effect on the operation of the brain and that they can be useful.
Drugs and the treatment of mental issues are still rather brutuish and heavy-handed, revealing our poor understanding of the brain-mind-body system. That isn't to say that we have not learned anything, just that there is room for improvement.
I would agree that personal discipline would definitely improve a condition such as ADHD or depression, but it cannot be used in isolation. I have close experience with depression and it is definitely something that can beneifit from drugs - attempting to exert external control on a chemical imbalance. For some people, the benefit of drugs is the difference between being able to function normally and not.
I like to illustrate a parallel with the controversial treatment of chronic pain by some doctors. They prescribe massive doses of morphine for regular use - doses so high they would be lethal for you or me, but they allow people with certain kinds of chronic pain to move and function normally. I believe that for some people with metal issues, the same can be said of the drugs they take. For most people the drugs would be bad, wrong and perhaps deadly. For others, it allows them to operate normally. It supplies their bodies with something they cannot internally regulate anymore (much like diabetics and insulin).
The failure of individuals (and their doctors) to observe and find the appropriate drug for their condition is saddening. I refer to another post in this thread that indicated that several children die every year from using Ritalin. I contend that it was perhaps a mis-application of the drug, not necessarily the drug at fault. You don't digitalis just because you have chest pains.
I say your ideas are not wrong, but they don't describe something that is applicable to everyone. There are many treatments, conditioning, prepardness and personal changes that should be applied simultaneaously to control a mental issue such as ADHD. You are treating it like a bad habit - a rather narrow and simplistic view.
"You need a license to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp." - Red Green
Have you ever considered being treated for obsessive compulsion and hypochondria, too?
That might be fun!
I hope famanoran reads down this far.
First, ADHD is real. It's also a fad diagnosis for parents who shouldn't have kids, since they are not willing to give the real attention that a kid *needs*.
My son was *clinically* diagnosed as having ADHD by a specialist (not whatever doctor we happened to find) about a dozen years ago. The medication he was put on made a *major* difference in his life, and ours. By the time he was in his mid-teens, he been complaining for a while, and came to me, and *asked* if he could go off the meds. We went to our then-current doctor, and discussed it, and *then* he did (it required tapering off, not cold turkey), and he's been pretty ok since - it *is* something that you can develop out of.
About drugs: Ritalin is the *L*A*S*T* drug he was on, after about 7 years. When last I looked, there were three *classes* of drugs that are used. If your doctor said Ritalin first shot, then fire yuor doctor, and find one who's not a shill for the drug companies, and who actually has a clue.
Do some research on the Web. Find a specialist. If yuo can afford it, pay - it's worth it for the few visits to find the right drug to start on.
mark
I'm reading this instead of working!!
sudo eat my shorts
That might all be true, but I think you are approaching the problem in the wrong manner. We should not be asking ourselves "Is this a disease that can be treated with meds?", instead we should be asking "Can we substantially improve one's quality of life with meds?"
I think that the latter is a better question.
life story...
I was a D student in K-2nd grade, I was very upset about this, because my father was a neuroscientist, my mother is a very intelligent homemaker, and my brother is quite smart as well. I was the lone blemish of stupidity in a brilliant family (my uncle and some of my cousins were like me, but lived 1000 miles away, so I didn't really know). My parents, and my 3rd grade teacher realized that I was not dumb, I just couldn't focus on one thing at a time. There are many examples from my childhood of this, and it was not just related to stuff I didn't like, or found boring.
One time, my best friend was on his way over to come play, I went to my room to change clothes so I could play outside, I started changing clothes, and stopped mid way through to play with a toy on my dresser. I was wearing one sock, and a T-shirt, I had not forgotten that I needed to change, I just became more interested in the toy.
I got put on Ritalin half way through the 3rd grade after an ADD (no hyperactivity) diagnosis. The next year I had a 3.5 GPA, I suddenly had self esteem, and confidence. I was medicated till the 8th grade, then I was weaned off of Ritalin, learning to control my symptoms was difficult, but manageable. I had to develop systems for just about everything (the bindings of books in my locker faced different directions depending on whether or not I had home work in that class, and so on...), and my grades dipped for a year, but they came back up.
I still have what my girlfriend and I call 'ADD moments' sometimes I go into blank stares for a couple minutes while putting on my shoes or something. I also often change thoughts on a dime, I can be writing a note to self one second, and then mid sentence (sometimes mid word) switch to googling for info on road bikes. Now, I am mature enough to deal with it, and I have learned to do so, when I was 8, there was no way in hell.
Learning to handle ADD was difficult, but possible, I don't think I could have done it without a lot of help from my parents, my teachers and Ritalin. I am sure I would have wound up as an unhappy sanitation worker without Ritalin, now, I love life, and my job in the aerospace industry ain't bad either.
Ritalin had an enormous positive impact on my life, and regardless of whether or not ADD is a disease, it helped me. We should be more concerned with whether or not we can help, than whether or not ADD is a disease.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
I have ADD, I know it's not the same as ADHD, but it has similar tendencies. My current cure for all things related to ADD is a Zippo. I always carry a Zippo lighter with me, it keeps my hands busy while I am trying to concentrate. For me it helps enough that I don't need meds. My sister has a more severe form of ADD, she is on Imipromene (spelling anyone?). She also has keychain like my Zippo to keep her busy when trying to concentrate. ADD kind of sucks (especially for my fiance who has to suffer through my inability to stay focused sometimes), but it does make for great humorous moments.
Good luck!
McD
People who are against human cloning must be bitter they are not good enough to be cloned.
ADD as it is known should be considered a personality trait -- still a mutation from the norm, but not a 'disease' in the medical sense. It was theorized that ADD stems from the hunter/gatherer dicotomy. A tribe of hunters would need to perceive their environment very differently than a tribe of gatherers (and later, harvesters) would. Hunters, like all predators, need to think and act in bursts of intensity in periods of intense stimuli; whereas farmers need to have an excellent sense of time, attention to detail despite repetition, and other such traits.
It's a pity I cannot recall the source. If nothing else, this gives us ADD'ers out there something to smirk smugly about (for once).
"I'm a hunter, you are all tedious berry gatherers. Why do you not acknowledge my badass neurology?"
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Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
I have had a 50 page limit/day on reading all my life.
Not a good enough reason to start thinking you have a disorder. I'm the same, but I've never felt like its a problem.
ADHD is a very real condition that many people suffer from all over the world. Although it appears at different levels across the board, in many documented cases sufferers go on miss-diagnosed as having personality disorders and similar psychological ailments throughout their adult life. The condition severity can vary from ones inability to staying on task (appearing uninterested) to severe comprehension challenges faced in the assimilation of day-to-day information (reading etc.) Since I am a sufferer of ADHD myself I can testify that the lack of interest or of ambition to accomplish things is not contributing factor in the problems we face in our day-to-day life. I have tried several drugs including the newest Ritalin (time release version) but no drug provided me with the a feeling of a natural well being (feeling like myself), although productivity did improve the effects of Ritalin and other chemical inducing drugs seemed to defy the purpose of the medications purpose. Instead, I have opted for a very low sugar /carbohydrate diet and a regular intake of omega3 foods, olives and Harp Seal Oil. (And ALOT of water) I cannot stress that enough... I seem to have found a balance between my personal well being and my own abilities to use my energy to get things done.
Also... I have found that the advent of ADHD can work in your favor in some work environments... if you can position yourself in a fast paced environment that allows you to make use of it then you can actually use own natural energy to contribute to your work environment.
I also accepted that due to my condition, some types of job outlines are just not suitable work environments, for example I would not work sitting down at a desk for very long periods of time... Although the use of a multi-tasking computer does in fact allow an ADHD sufferer to accelerate the pace of his work cycle to a comfortable level you might want to work behind a closed door since most supervisors would never not believe you are actually doing anything productive.
The fact that our society has adopted pills to anyone who does not fit our population standards totally blows me away. In fact I think it down right stinks that our schooling system has no room for energetic students when the percentages are so elevated.
Well this reply is a little more of a rant than information deliver, nonetheless I was compelled to answer to this thread since I can sympathize with the article writer and sincerely hope he will find a comfortable solution to his challenges.
To end this note I would like to say that we should not give in to medication so easily, we have a multitude of nutritional options that can be very effective in curving serotonin our bodies levels not to mention the high rate of miss-diagnosed ADHD cases which are actually the result of other physical problems such as:
Candidas sufferers, Lactose intolerance, glycemia (hyper/hypo) conditions and a multitude of other intolerances and deficiencies...
When it comes to our personal abilities to perform in life, no stone should be left unturned.
Good luck,
~ST
I feel for the author. I will not argue about if ADD or ADHD exisits or not. There are some of us who have problems dealing with certain societal conformities. For some of us this manifested in Grade or High School for other it was a some other time.
Dealing with our inability can take on many forms. For some of us it is medication. I have used caffeine as my medication of choice. I have never gotten a caffeine buzz that most caffeine users get. I can drink an entire pot of coffee and other than more frequent trips to the bathroom sleep like a baby. For me caffeine provides a means of staying on task when I am dealing with the administrivia of my job.
If I need to be at all creative, I drastically cut down or eliminate my caffeine use.
Other people use Ritalin or some other substance. It is critial to understand that for many of us these drugs do not cause the same effects as non-ADD folks.
The various form of "speed" (Dexidrine et al) do not "amp" ADD folks up.
The bottom line is for each person to find what works for them. If some change in lifestyle (diet, etc.) works for you, then great. If some drug or combination works for you then great, too.
Let those of us who have it or are the parents of someone who has it make our own decisions on what make us successful. Everyone else should stop "pontificating" and leave us alone.
Try ELIMINATING artificial trans-fatty acids (partially hydrogenated vegetable oils) and substituting healthy fats, like olive oil and cod liver oil.
To quote "Protein Power Lifeplan", pg. 265-266:
"Chips - a staple of children, teens and many adults throughout the country - may contain as much as 47 percent of these [partially hydrogenated] fats; french fries, deep-fried fish and chicken, and dough-nuts contain even more. Many Americans, and especially kids, may subsist almost soley on a diet of these kinds of foods. A number of researchers now feel the explosion of ADHD (attention deficity hyperactivity disorder), learning disabilities, behavior problems, and possibly even increasing teen depression, apathy and suicide can, at least in part, be laid at the door of diets containing poor-quality fats, little good-quality cholesterol, far too much sugar and starch, and an abundance of altered fats."
Your body is the support system for you mind. If you stuff artificial fat and high amounts of sugar into it, its not going to support your mind very well.
I was also diagnosed with ADHD as an adult..... I have tried just about every amphetamine-based drug that is on the market with varying results and some major(and minor) side effects. HOWEVER a couple of months ago my doctor informed me of a new NON-amphetamine drug called Strattera.... it essentially boosts your brain's epinephrine output WITHOUT all of the nasty side effects caused by Ritalin and the like..... Unfortunately i am not quite sure who produces it.....
Seriously, not trying to be funny at all, I tried to read this book after a councelor at my university recommended it to me, but gave up because I couldn't focus on it at the time. That was about 9 years ago and my concentration problems get better and worse, I think related to stress. I've had a lot of bad experiences with psychologists and therapy since I was a kid, so I haven't made any more attempts to get help.
I love reading but I read extremely slowly because I can't focus on more than a few paragraphs at a time, I need to get up, walk around, whatever.
For the people who say that it's a boredom thing - on a good day I can concentrate just fine on boring things, but on a bad day I can't do *anything* for more than a few minutes without getting distracted, even if it's just an impulsive need to look out the window or walk across the room for no reason. And don't get me started on having trouble listening to people talk, no matter how hard I try to listen or how interesting the subject matter is, it just turns into a background drone and my mind wanders. Everytime I hear a list of symptoms it totally describes me.
Personally I just let it go. I haven't been diagnosed or anything, but considering I can be in the middle of a sentence during a meeting with my managers and be completely stopped mid word by the glimpse of a fly buzzing around on the other side of the room or a faint conversation happening on the other side of the door I'd have to say that it'd probably be a good shot that I'd be diagnosed with some sort of concentration disorder.
Fuck it.
I could probably be a lot farther along in my career if I was medicated. People tend to come away a little bruised when I don't pay 100% attention to them and their huge egos. I'd also probably get a lot more work done.
Hmmm, think it could help my memory too? I might actually think about it if I thought it might help me remember stuff. I'll never be a good programmer due to the fact that I have to relearn everything all the time. I'll never be a great sysadmin because I'm constantly re-solving problems that I'd solved in the past.
BAH!
Not only do I have ADD (not diagnosed, but I was in school before the ADD generation), but I also have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
Talk about BRAIN FOG. Thinking clearly and focusing are like pulling teeth sometimes.
Naturally, I've tried all sorts of things, but in the end, I found that only brief courses of certain drugs are helpful. In the long run, what has helped me the most is cleaning up my diet, not eating any more junk food, not taking any unnecessary chemicals, drinking LOTS more water, and EXERCISING REGULARLY. (I'm still having trouble kicking caffine completely.) Although some of the drugs may make me "feel better", they don't help my mental clarity; they just make me restless, so I can handle social situations better, but not concentrating on work.
And the other thing that has helped me a lot is a huge dose of self-discipline. Yeah, I have the urge to get up and wander around when I have work to do -- I let myself do that to some extent, but I push myself to focus. There are SOME things I can focus on intently, because they're REALLY interesting, and so I cope by framing what I have to do in those terms. That often requires a lot of ingenuity.
Holy crap, you think the people you might be trying to help can get through that? I couldn't.
But if you do here's some of the stuff I tried when I was skeptical of my diagnosis. The easiest question, does caffeine affect you? I mean negatively. Can you drink a bunch of coffee and get caffeine jitters? I can't. I've never even noticed the presence of caffeine unless I get that damn withdrawal headache. Never had the jitters.
To try to check out the diagnosis I went to the gas station. I picked up one of those trucker packs of OTC speed they always have on the counter. I should have gotten all jumpy and maybe sweat too much. In fact I finished a project I had been trying to get done for weeks.
Its different for everyone. Do what works for YOU.
I was diagnosed with ADHD about 5 years ago. After trying a few different medications (Ritalin - didn't work; Adderall - worked but gave me headaches) I found Dexedrine to be the most effective for me. I haven't tried any herbals since I've been happy with the Dexedrine.
Aside from difficulties getting distracted, I also sometimes have trouble getting motivated to work on things I'm not interested in. Here are some coping strategies I've found to be helpful:
1. Lists, especially to-do lists, are your friend. Use them liberally. If you have a task to do that is overwhelming or you just can't get started, break it up into the smallest pieces imaginable and write them down. A lot of times if you can just get started, momentum will take over. It also helps keep your focus when you have a list to refer to so you know what you have to do next, and crossing things off provides a feeling of accomplishment that helps lift your mood.
2. Develop habits. Always leave your keys, wallet/purse, glasses, etc. in the same place every day. When you go away from home, conscously pick a place for these things wherever you're staying. Once you've gotten into this habit, you can use it for other things too. For instance, if there's something I absolutely have to remember to do in the morning, I write a note and put it in the place where I keep my keys.
3. Set up regular meetings with your boss or manager (or someone to whom you are responsible). This will help keep you on track and focused. Even if you sometimes have to scramble to get something done the day before your meeting, at least you're making progress.
4. When you need to quiet your mind and focus your attention, try going for a walk and counting shapes (without regard for color or function). It really works! You can read more about this exercise ("Counting Forms") and controlling your attention in the book "Resurfacing" by Harry Palmer.
Hope this helps...
What is interesting is that he also mentions foods that contain "salicylates." This is a substance that appears in some of the the following very innocuous seeming foods:
There are more foods on the list. But, very few people would be sensitive to all of them. The idea is to cut them all out for two weeks and see if there is a difference and then add them back in one at a time.
The jury is out on the accuracy of this theory. And, it is supposed to help children more than adults.
I have two step children that have food sensitivities. One in particular is sensitive to several of the foods on the list above as well as many artificial preservative and colourings. You can watch a complete change in his personality after he eats one of the foods that he is sensitive to. He becomes hyper and a bit belligerent. A few hours later he crashes and usually has a temper tantrum over some small issue. You wouldn't expect that from a green pepper. We are still trying to figure out by trial and error what is safe for him.
This diet is very simple and non-invasive. If it doesn't work in your case, then continue looking for another solution. Personally, I think start with the least invasive possibilities and work out from there.
You can do a Google search on Fiengold and start reading.
Good luck!
I was diagnosed at 14, but my parents did not allow me to take medication. I was on Ritalin for a while in my 20's, and it did help me concentrate... then again, as my shrink put it, "Ritalin would probably help *anybody* concentrate, whether they have ADHD or not."
I've had my share of problems in life (it took me 10 years to finish college) but I don't know if it was the ADHD, the screwed up childhood, the occasional spells of depression, my unrealistic expectations of life the universe and everything, or a little of everything combined.
I'm in grad school now and I haven't been taking Ritalin for maybe five years now. Maybe I self-medicate, I don't know-- I do drink tons of coffee and occasionally other stimulants (but not very often). I haven't tried natural remedies, and frankly don't trust them unless they're backed by research I can look up on PubMed myself (but I'm a biologist, so I guess that's easy for me to say). I do use Melatonin in the evenings though, because it helps me sleep and feel more perky the next morning.
My coping strategies are to make lists of everything I need to do, and carry the list (and a pencil or two) with me everywhere, crossing things off as I do them. Every large, looming, anxiety producing problem can be broken into manageable sub-tasks (and if they're too hard to deal with, that's a sign that *they* need to be broken up into smaller sub-tasks). Owning a PDA helps (though my checklists change so often that data input is too much of a hassle, hence the paper lists). I try to be well organized at home and file stuff I may need later in a hanging file cabinet (and that's a struggle with the very core of my being, let me tell you). When I need to remember to deal with something I sometimes post a note on my door, or in the bathroom, or on my desk lamp. I work at jobs where they're not terribly anal about me being in a certain place by a certain time (luckily that describes grad school as well as the sysadmin jobs I worked before then). Harsh experience (those ten years of college I mentioned...) has taught me to treat all paperwork and bills (except mail order soliciations) as CODE RED priority stuff that I get done as soon as I get it out of the envelope or as soon as I have the necessary information to fill it out, whichever comes first... because if I don't, it's going to sit around forever and get buried under more paperwork. Exercising helps... and by exercise I mean anything that gets your muscles moving and your blood pumping, not necesserily just jogging in a circle-- paintball, ballroom dance, martial arts, rock climbing... you get the idea.
I shun anal-retentive, time-obsessed, compulsively rule-following control freaks. They are the ADHD-ers natural enemy. If someone invents a bomb that selectively kills every bean-counter on Earth, I hope they launch it good and hard. For now, just avoid the weasly little bastards.
The flip side of that is that the interesting, lateral-thinking, creative, fun people who can keep up with me disproportionately turn out to have ADHD themselves! To me, having ADHD simply means that I'm less capable of putting up with bullshit that no human being should have to put up with in the first place. ADHD is only a 'problem' in the same way that left-handedness or homosexuality are problems. They're not problems you have, they're problems society has *with* you.
We're lucky that we were born when when we were. I suspect I'd be much, much less functional if there were no computers to enable me to do stuff quickly, before I lose interest, and to remind me of commitments I've made.
A woman (with ADHD) I was shag-buddies with for a while told me that some ADHD males tend to stay erect for a long, long time before they are able to come. I don't know how generally true that is, but I'm that way, and I see it as more of a feature than a bug.
Really, the main bad thing about ADHD is if you someday decide to shag for reproductive purposes. Th
I was considered a "problem child" in elementary school. I had difficulty concentrating and was generally obnoxious. My fourth grade teacher suggested to my parents that they have me evaluated for learning disorders. Doctors diagnosed me with ADHD, OCD, Tourette's Syndrome, and a bunch of other things, and so ensued the medication. I was medicated from the time I was 8 to the time I was 16, when I decided to stop taking everything. Now I deal with my poor attention span in a constructive manner. If anyone ever looks at the taskbar on my computer at any given moment, they'll see a few dozen programs open, and me switching between them every thirty seconds or so, unless I'm really concentrating on something. When I work, as long as I have a few projects to deal with simultaneously, I get things done quite quickly. I've learned to turn my inability to focus on one thing at a time into an advantage by accomplishing many tasks at once. I don't know how well this works for others, but it's worked for me--and I don't miss the medication.
Check out my world simulator thingy.
...the feeble minded post AC on Slashdot.
That was classic intercourse!
ADD and ADHD did not become chronic conditions until after drug companies were allowed to advertise to the general public. Coincidence?
What if drugs were not necessary? As a hypnotist, I know some techniques that could help in focusing as well as releasing emotional tensions that may be causing many of these hyperactivity and distractions. Other alternative modes could be effective as well for far cheaper. Why do you have to swallow a pill for every conceived ill?
@HbFyo0$k8 tH!$
I'm 25 now and employed as a Java developer, and I've found a company which accepts my erratic schedules and slightly different approach to problem solving. So things are going well. Still it's nice to know how to best utilize my way of thinking and acting, and avoid doing things the hard way by trying to force myself to conform, or if I have to, at least understanding the reasons my brain works the way it does.
Anyway, thanks for mention of the book. I've just ordered it :)
Just like you can manage depression and pain without pills.
Oh yeah? If you can, then good for you. But don't presume that the rest of us are like you.
I've had multiple episodes of severe clinical depression. I saw counselors for nine years to "work on my problems." That barely made a dent in it. Then I went on antidepressants (specifically Wellbutrin -- those of you who had bad results with serotonin drugs should look into WB) and began doing much, much better.
I'll probably be on meds the rest of my life, and you know what? That's fine. I'm happy, I'm functioning well--and I know, from missing a dose here and there, that I would not be doing well without the meds.
Why do people want to take the easy way out?
Are you taking the "easy way out" by using an inhaler? Well, stop it then: breathe! Take a deep, deep breath! Pull yourself up by your bootstraps! What, you can't? Well, that's what you're telling people with depression or pain to do. You can't just wish an illness away.
I already posted my story, you can read it here...
But as someone who has ADD (not major) I am going to have to disagree. I am no longer medicated, but I think that I would not have been able to learn to control ADD without Ritalin. When I was put on Ritalin for limited periods of time (only on school days, only through the school day, I was off weekends, evenings and summers) I experienced the mind set of concentration. I learned what it felt like to concentrate, I also learned to seek that feeling, and hold on to it.
Ritalin alone did not teach me anything, but it was a (necessary in my opinion) major part of learning to deal with ADD for me.
I agree that drugs are used too soon and too often, and for too long, but to describe them as the enemy is just closed minded.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
I am not lazy. I have ADD. I am not a victim. I am a person with a problem. I do not think of myself as
"disabled". I'm not asking for a free good grade or pay raise based on my problem. I don't think too many people with ADD or ADHD do.
I never use ADD as an excuse for anything. If my girlfriend catches me zoning out, I don't say "Sorry, my ADD is acting up."
I have a job answering telephones at a hotel reservation center. I hate my job with a passion, but I'm good at it because the calls are quick and I don't have time to zone out. I'd rather be doing something more involved, but due to me being "lazy", I have a hard time.
Yeah, I think we've all had those classes where the professor sucks and you get bored and draw stuff and what not. But how about the classes that I have a geniune interest in? Sometimes all it takes is a person tapping their fingers to throw me totally off of what's being said in the class, and once that happens, it's next to impossible for me regain my concentration.
I don't take pills. I took ritalin for a little while, and it did make a difference. But I stopped. Partly because I was afraid of becoming dependent, and partly to defend myself against ignorant pricks like yourself who think they know everything.
ADD/ADHD is a disease, plain and simple, and it prevents people from doing things to the best of their ability, whether they are interested in it or not.
ADD/ADHD- If you don't have it, then you can't dispute it.
Interesting post -- thanks for all those details. You're on to something with dopamine. They say l-tyrosine is a precursor; that might be worth trying. Or Wellbutrin, which increases your dopamine and norepinephrine. For people who've had bad responses/reactions to SSRIs like Paxil and Zoloft, Wellbutrin sometimes works very well.
My sister was diagnosed with ADHD many years ago. Her doctor refused to medicate her and suggested that she try the Feingold Diet. It is hard to follow at first but in 3 weeks it turned her into a 'normal' kid with no signs of ADHD at all.
Check it out. Seriously, I have seen this work first hand.
http://www.feingold.org/home.html
"A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of." - Burt Bacharach
I cut my kid off from having things containing corn syrup on weeknights, and helped the day care come up with ways to challenge him intellectually, and all the problems went away.
ADHD is a hoax invented by the drug industry. Millions of children are being given a Schedule II psychoactive narcotic, Ritalin, to correct a dietary problem. Cut down on the sugar, avoid artificial color dyes, spend more time with your kid, and make him go outside instead of vegetating in front of the TV, and you will correct the problem without being a lazy bastard and addicting your kid to speed.
Note that there are probably a few thousand kids in the US who actually have a problem that needs drugs to fix. Not the multiple millions who are being abused with this heinous drug, however.
Don't drink or do drugs. Don't drink coffee. Ritalin in an adult is akin to taking speed. That stuff in the long run won't be good for your brain. Go for long walks or runs. Get out of the house and away from the computer. Your diet needs work too, I bet. No processed sugars or caffeine. As a society, we are always looking for a magic pill...there are none. Yoga and stretching help.
No...it's okay...I wasn't using my Civil Liberties anyway
Do whatever people did before ritalin and other drugs. Whatever is was, it got us humans this far, so it can't be all bad.
If you open your mind too wide, people will throw trash in it.
This is sounding rather familiar. A family member claims she thinks I have it, but she has a history of latching onto quack diagnoses.
But, as I noted, this sounds rather familiar.
What are the symptoms? How does one know if one is likely enough to have it to seek medical attention?
I am using drugs to allow my brain to compensate for physiological problems that interfere with my life. . . . I have a medical condition and I can take drugs that have exactly the effect that I want them to have. That's treatment, not "hiding."
Well said. It drives me nuts sometimes that there's this double standard for illnesses that are neurological or psychiatric. Nobody tells the diabetic to throw out the insulin, nobody scorns the asthmatic for needing albuterol, but if you have ADHD or depression you're somehow supposed to just cure yourself by pure willpower.
Many people just don't understand. You clearly do. (Consider me a fan now.)
I have ADD, and this guy is right on!
Back in high school I was that freak in geometry class that had a completely differant, and still correct, proof from everyone else 90% of the time. People with ADD see the world differently, and this can be exploited!
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Most people here will not agree with me. I fell that most people would be diagnosed with ADD or ADHD if they were examined. ADHD is a lack of discipline in a specific area of non interest. If you look at anyone diagnosed with ADHD you will find that they have no problem paying attention during activities that they find interesting however they do not have the discipline to pay attention during activities that hold no interest for them. Children are not born with discipline. It is something they gain and work to improve. With some it comes easier than others like most things. I have personaly worked with this problem my entire life and so have many others.
There are two solutions to this problem. 1. You take drugs and become addicted to some very powerful stimulants. After a while of using these stimulets you will be unable to function without them.
2. You learn discipline and focus. My mind wants to wander when I get in those boring classes or meetings however I need to have enough discipline to pay attention even though my mind wants to wander.
Exercise her mind don't drug it. Just because she has a problem with focus now doesn't mean she has to always have this problem. Work with her and train her. This method, in my opinion, is much better.
Don't count these children out.
They have the ability.
Everyone has problems they need to conquer. You can either overcome adversity through hard work and perseverance or you can take drugs and ignore the problem.
You decide.
ADHD.
Feed your child right. Be his or her parent. Turn off the TV. Get the child to run around a bit every day.
Lawdy, the chillins be Cured!
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
this may be the case for a lot of people, but not me. i agree that adhd is WAY over diagnosed. but there is some people with real, tough problems. i was diagnosed 20 years ago. if you are being diagnosed some time in college, guess what? you dont have much of a problem. if its bad enough to need treatment youd notice a very big problem a lot earlier. its frustrating for people like me reading about all of these people, because their "problems" seem like nothing. as you say they seem to get a little bored at stuff. who cares? but for me its EVERYTHING i do. i have no hobbys i keep. i have no fun stuff that stays fun. everything i try FOR FUN, gets boring. everything. so please do not think that this is just some lazy thing. it hurts me very badly that im like this and i try to change, ive tried dozens of medicines and other alternative therapies and nothing has helped me. i constantly struggle to find reasons to live because of this. so dont lump me in this same group as you talk about. there is some of us with a real problem.
Okay, I've had fairly severe ADHD Hyperactive/Inattentive type for nearly 30 years. I've looked at a lot of different angles and studied a lot of different reports, and teted a lot of different folk remedies. First, ADHD is a genetic chemical imbalance in the brain resulting from the improper reuptake of several nuerotransmitters. It's not caused by parenting, and it's not caused by a bad diet. For most of the 80's it was indeed overdiagnosed, just like Depression was in the 90's, but those who really have the problem know it. It's not the end of the world though. Although medication is very helpful as a child, when your ability to comprehend the issue and control your enviornment is minimal, it is less or even not at all needed by late adolescence into adulthood. It used to be believed that whatever ADHD was, that is 'went away' by adulthood, because most people never displayed symptoms that late. What is happening is that most (approx. 75%) of ADHD sufferers have a light enough problem that by adulthood they have learned to cope and struture thier lives to work with and around the problem, and it never seems like it there anymore. Some still have signs, like myself, having more severe cases, or they have never learned to cope. The way to deal is very simple actually. Medication will still help as an adult much of the time, but it's not really nessessary. All that is needed is to understand and acknowledge the nature of your specific type of ADHD (there are 3 main types, and several subdivisions) and structure your habits and living around that. ADHD can work to your benefit even if you plan things right. I have trouble staying focused in groups myself, so I work independantly and in some degree of separation (I don't lock myself away, I just keep my headphones on) and I can work tirelessly for ages. I also acknowledge the need to get up and move frequently (around the office, etc.) and I do, and I keep working. ou run into problems mostly when you try to do things that will be blatently hard for you. If I decided to start working in large groups, where we were required to sit for hours without getting up, I would have huge problems, but they way I work now makes me more productive than nearly any other employee. Feel free to refute me on any of this, I welcome new insights and other opinions.
There is a link between bi-polar disorder (aka "manic depression") and thyroid problems. Treating the symptoms doesn't solve the problem. My wife was on bi-polar medication for two years, ending up on 7 different drugs (at one time), before one doctor discovered that she needed a higher dosage for her thyroid. Now she's on ONE medication, and her mood swings are gone completely. The bi-polar meds would HELP, but would not FIX the problem.
i on .htm
http://www.psycheducation.org/thyroid/introduct
Life was very rough for us, and we separated for a year. I didn't understand what was going on. My wife had changed into a different person. She couldn't sleep well, she would get on the Internet and have several chat sessions going at once in a typing frenzy for hours. Then other times, she didn't want to do ANYTHING AT ALL.
As I said, the bi-polar meds helped, but did not attack the real problem, they simply dealt with the symptoms. Bi-polar and ADHD are simply a convenient place for doctors to lump everyone together when they can't really find out what's wrong. I'm sure meds help, but my advice is to find the source of the problem.
For the privacy interests of my wife, I have posted this anonymously, but I hope that all who read this will not let that prevent them from moderating appropriately.
Helly everybody! There is a Website out there, which claims that many deseases and disorders are caused by prepared foods. .. sorry for my bad english btw...
Among these disorders is ADHD.
I never had ADHD, but some of the other "disorders" it claims to cure (with a special kind of raw-food diet). What it did cure for me was my fatique/depression, overweight and acne (ok dont laugh here!).
So i just want to point to this website and hope someone might find it interesting and helpfull.
It is 100% non-commercial and based on many dozens of studies, for all you science-freaks :)
It should be a interesting read at least.
The links to the ADHD-part is this:
http://www.13.waisays.com/ADHD.htm
and the homepage is here:
http://www.waisays.com/
Good luck to everybody and greetings from germany
I have had ADHD for sometime, diagnosed when I was in grade school. I was on ritalian for a while, but I found in more difficult to do anyltical thinking, and always been a pseudo-math-genius and computer programmer that was unacceptable. Recently I have started using adderal and I have found I can actually do anyaltical problems faster, and be able to focus for long periods of time. The side effects are minimal, and in my case beneficial (weight loss and less sleep).
luckily I have never not managed people in my career, so I usually tell other people to do what I cannot. A lot of people with ADHD also tend to hyperfocus, so what I do is just crank out work during those times. Often that will mean working all night. I also occasionally take medicine which helps a lot, but I think it is just a bandaid, and it is also highly addictive. Diet is a big key I have found, but haven't found that perfect diet that gets me to a desired level. I think as a general rule ADHD has a major benefit that I haven't heard anyone else point out (although i didn't really read all the other posts, well because of that adhd thing). I think that ADHD forces you to learn things faster, because otherwise you will not learn them at all, and therefor not "survive". Also, since many things do not enter your long term memory, you are forced to figure those things out again and again. Your mind becomes quicker because it has to. I think it also helps avoid the waning of the mind over time. I don't remember a damn thing I learned in college, but I do not believe for a second that it was wasted time. I think that over time my mind has been trained and has become sharper, but it just hasn't retained knowledge. Because of this way I think that my creativity hasn't been depleted as quickly as others. Unfortunately this makes me a horrible programmer when it comes to consistency and following the rules and whatnot. But I think it allows me to create things that others cannot because I don't remember what you are not supposed to do. I don't feel I have the same limits as other people. Of course I also can't hold a conversation to save my life, so there are definite drawbacks. Sorry to all the ADHDers for all the rambling, you probably didn't make it this far.
Educate yourself before posting bigoted replies such as this.
You haven't a clue what people with ADHD go through in their lives.
What are you going to tell us next?
Celine Dion Killed Kennedy?
Quit Smokin the Reefer!!!!!
my undrstanding of add diagnosis is that one of the required steps in then manual(dsmV i dont have one on me so corroberation might be nice) is to rule out bipolar disorder (new, more accurate name for manic depression as of several years ago)
i listen to music... it helps. radiohead's "okay computer" for that 3am last-minute "oh my god i have to get this done by 8am" stretch... pink floyd's "dark side of the moon" religiously (about once a month), any music by infected mushroom helps distract me just enough that i can get work done.
eep!
SIGERR: laziness exceeds quota
If you're in that small percentage of people who can't do it without medication, well, that sucks. but find something that won't kill you.
:>
... well, I keep a lego in my pocket so I have something small and quiet to fidget with.
:>
I've got a reasonably aggresive case of ADD, ADHD or whatever the stupid fucks want to call it today. After working with lots of kids with ADD I now think it's brilliant people disorder, because the kids come with insanely creative ways to get in trouble and hurt themselves.
But on to something that might help you and has helped me. I've found that if I don't eat any sugar and little starch (none for breakfast though) that I do a lot better during the day. My calander is my life-mate, my girlfriend just a mistress (she finds the calendar when I loose it). But, I check my calendar every time I think. It's absolutely crucial to have a job you're compatible with, and work around people who accept difference. I'm in the Air Force and fly for a living sitting in the back of the jet as an electronic warfare officer. The joy of my job is that I don't have a desk, and don't have to do the 8-5 (that's made up with 12-16 hour days occasionally and getting shot at sometimes). However, when I'm flying there's more then adequate stimulation so I really do pay attention well. My coworkers know that I have a short attention span; they've measured it at 45 seconds
Other things that help a lot are to live alone; that way I'm not annoying anyone when it's 5:00 AM and I haven't gotten to bed yet. I always have music going at home, so that there's some noise to distract me into functionality. (that doesn't make sense to normal people, but ignore them) and
You've got to get aoutside nad walk in the park or whatever you have for the local equivelant when you just can't concentrate because trying to force yourself isn't going to work. About every other month or so I get to where I just can't get to sleep. Melatonin helps a lot with that. Just between friends who also have ADD, response to alcohol varies greatly, and for me it varies randomly. Sometimes I can't think without a glass of wine, other times, if I've had any alcohol at all I can't concentrate.
Let the calendar with the todo list be your soul-mate. That way you can at least start looking at something you need to do. Break projects down into little pieces. Since lots of people are okay with listening to the radio at work, that's a good way to have enough noise.
As far as girlfriends, well, good luck finding one who understands. It's not impossible; my girlfriend teaches high school math, so she understands hyperactive kids. She also knows how to keep my atention pegged, but that's a different topic
Good hunting.
which is why they use uppers (it works on this pathway). I've found heavy exercise and something they no longer make anymore called "Memory Fuel" by the Life Extension Foundation/Durk Pearson + Sandy Shaw really helps.
In fact, if I didn't take the stuff for ages and then took some before midterms I'd have hyperfocus like you wouldn't believe.
Powerlifting first thing in the AM has helped me too. Check out elitefts.com - articles section
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
It can also be debilitating if you put something on the stove, and then solve that software bug and go to code it and next thing you know. smoke alarm tweeting.
I've personally set the kitchen on fire 3 or 4 times so I'm no stranger to the old "that can cook for a bit while I do *this*" thinking ;-)
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Your post is the most un-informed, incorrect, post I've seen.
Read my post for some education into ADHD.
The information I discuss are some of the reasons why the Government covers ADHD in the 'Disabilities Act'.
Dolemite
___________________________
Save the World! Use a Quote!
My opinion: ADHD and other "disorders" affecting the "mental health" of people due to "chemical imbalances" seem very real to many people. How can so many people have this problem, and it not be what "the doctors" say it is? easy. I think that due to the horrible diet and lack of decent exercise, all the chemicals we ingest in everything we eat and drink, OF COURSE we're going to have chemical imbalances. because our bodies are trying to filter out all this crap that shouldn't be there in the first place. I'm not a doctor, or a scientist, but yeah, I feel depressed a lot, and i have trouble concentrating on things a lot, too. does that mean I have some sort of depression, or have ADHD? could be.. but my choice is to deal with it without going to the doctors and taking drugs for it. When I feel like the bottom dropped out, yeah, its uncomfortable. Who says life is supposed to make you happy all the time? It's the experience of it that helps us grow into better people. All I know is that all these kids (and adults now apparently) with add were given all these special considerations in schools, and what did us "smart" kids get? more homework. because the schoolsystems aren't designed to help individuals excel. they're designed to get the lowest common denominator the rudimentary requirements of an "education" so they can go get a job as a coporate drone somewhere. Much of this problem I think has to do with the way the education system is handled, the way the U.S. as a society is becoming. It's only going to get worse. these mental problems are the trickle-down symptoms of a failing gigantic empire. But, that's just one man's own opinion.
If you can read this, you are most likely close enough.
I spent from the time I was 20-24 in depression, going from doctor to doctor who would be more than eager to throw me on prozac. I was finally reffered to a therapist who after seeing me twice suggested that I may have ADHD, or ADD. This was sort of odd because it was something that I always associated with kids. Long story short, I was put on a low dosage or ritalin twice a day and my life changed. I finally graduated from college, and I aced my classes, my GPA soared. In nearly every part of my life there was a complete turn around. Not that it was some sort of miracle drug, but with this sort of haze lifted I was able to accomplish what I set out to do and not get sidetracked. The biggest problem I had was dealing with the pharmacists. More than a few occasions, I was given a very hard time. Ritilan is associated with children, if an adult needs it, especially a young adult, you are cast under suspicion of being some sort of speed junkie or drug dealer to children. I had a couple of pharmacies refuse to fill my perscription until they spoke to my doctor. One time I was shorted pills, over 20. I went back and was accused of lying... get this, I was 26 at the time and the pharmacist insisted on speaking to my mother or father before giving me the rest of the pills! There were too many times where I had to explain myself, show ID, had to have the doctor called. There is a large stigma associated with ritalin, I would never let any employer know that I had taken it. I got off mainly because of the stress of getting prescriptions refilled. It got so out of hand sometimes. After about 2-3 years I stopped and have been pretty good. I got my life on track now and ritalin had a big part to play. There are times I would like to go back on but the stigma attached to taking ritalin is brutal. The problem is that a lot of these pharmacists and doctors are older, they don't keep up with what is current, especially when it comes to mental or mood disorders. When they start to die off things will be better for adults who have ADHD.
Cannabis usually helps, if that's any comfort.
I am. I also happen to be an expert on the central catecholamine systems, which are implicated involved in ADD.
I really, really didn't want to be drawn into this debate because, like religion and politics, you are often either preaching to the choir or a wall.
However, your utter misinterpration of the dopaminergic system, along with the completely fallacious claim that many people have made regarding lack of scientific evidence is egregious.
ADD is real, and it's a problem of the brain. Its etiology is not completely understood, but better understood everyday. Is it over-diagnosed? Probably. Is Ritalin over-prescribed? Probably. However, the boundary between what is and is not ADD is fuzzy, and a difference of degree, not quality.
First, quick factual rectification: Increasing dopamine in the front of the brain does not slow the brain. In the front of the brain (prefrontal cortex), increased dopamine is thought to help keep focus on current task demands by sharpening their representations in attractor networks of neurons. That is to say, the front of the brain keeps "online" what it is you intend to do right now. If this "goal" or "intention" fades or is disrupted by competing intentions, you get off track and distracted. In ADD patients, this is thought to happen too readily. Increasing dopamine levels (via agonists like ritalin) is thought to help lock down intentions and goals, keeping them "online" and the person "focused."
However, the majority of your post is a kind of armchair philosophizing about the place of ADD in the spectrum of psychiatric disorders. Unfortunately, convincing the general public of the reality of psychiatric illness and the utlity of psychoactive medications is a problem of paradigm. People, including you, are far and away dualists even when they claim not to be. And I use dualism here in an extended sense, to appy to psychology as it does to to metaphysics. People tend to be adamant that there is a distinction between the mind and the brain. People tend to think there are a class of "real" organic disorders of the brain, and then there a bunch of fluffy dysfunctions of the "mind" which are due to socialization, personality, will, judgment, and possibly genetics (although they don't see the contradiction of this last one).
Here's the truth: You are your brain, your brain is you. The brain gives wholly rise to the mind, and the mind is wholly derived from the function of the brain. One is a phenomenological construct, the other is the implementing hardware.
Here's another truth: The brain is plastic and every moment of experience changes it. Now, all organs changes and adapt, but no other organ is designed to be as profoundly plastic as the brain.
The first point invalidates the idea that some psychological problems are just "in people's heads" while others are "chemical imbalances." Every feature of a person's behavior is rooted in the brain. Some breakdowns in brain function have a gross, systematic nature that makes them easier to categorize (schizophrenia, parkinsons, alzheimer's, etc.). While some, like ADD are a little subtler. And some, like personality disorders, are subtler still and chronic. Generally, the more the disorder impacts the way the brain conveys personality, social interaction, or sense of "self" the more we believe the problem to be relegated to the artificial realm of "mind" not body.
The second point underscores the fact that both chemical and experiential treatment of the brain have real impact. By chemical, I mean psychopharmacology. By experiential, I mean things like psychotherapy, self-therapy, social interaction, changing the environment. All these things affect a person's mind and hence their brain (or vice versa).
Anyway, back to science: Here's a good reference on the scientific basis of ADD. Its a little dated, but it's by the same group that performed the neuroimaging study some AC linked to earlier (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/events/pradhd.htm ).
After several years of being unmedicated I took a job (15 yrs ago) that required much more attention to detail. I had myself completely re-diagnosed with "Undifferentiated ADHD" at the age of 27 and have been taking 300mg of Wellbutrin since. Good stuff this Wellbutrin. It's one of many medications that work well for adults. Check with your doctor because each person responds differently to a lot of these medications.
Tricks of the trade:
One of the big keys to living a successful life with ADD/ADHD is to know as much as possible about how you feel, act, react, yadda-yadda-yadda on a day in - day out basis. Knowing how you feel when you're "out there" is a tremendous help in being able to regulate yourself. Equally valuable is knowing how you feel when you're really on your game.
Step two: Learn to use this knowledge to manipulate your own state-of-mind. I know that when I'm off my game there are any number of things I can do to get myself back on, assuming I am self aware enough to realize that I'm off. Most of these things have nothing to do with medicatation.
Sure, caffeine comes in handy. I've said many times that "caffeine is the lens through which the whole world comes into focus." However, there are a number of meditative methods you can use as well. Some people require the assistance of a professional counsellor to develop these methods but many can acquire them on their own by reading the right books and just taking the time to try things out. I found that doing a bit of reading in areas of meditation (transcendental and otherwise), creative visualization, and shamanism were extremely helpful.
For those of you who are a little put off by the word "shamanism" for any reason:
- It's not a religion.
- It's not "devil worship"
- It doesn't require any special tools, training, places, props, etc.
Shamanism is simply a way of looking at the world around you in physical, psychological, and spiritual terms through techniques involving meditation and personal mental focus. It blends in very well with ALL of the worlds major religions. In fact, significant parts of all of the worlds most prominent faiths are pure and simple shamanic practices. Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, and Christianity (in pretty much all of its various flavors) incorporate these methods.That said, simple prayer to whatever higher being you follow is the most basic shamanic methods of all, and one of the most effective.
My office has been taken over by iPod people.
http://add.miningco.com/library/blcomparisonaddiov erfocused.htm
Asperger's is also known as geek syndrome, I'm surprised I don't see a lot of other people mentioning it. I have some PRN's I take when I get too worked up about something and I get by just fine.
Common characteristics are thinking extremely logically, social awkwardness, eccentric hobbies, clumsiness, lots of other stuff too. Not everyone exhibits all the symptoms. Most psychologists seem to overlook it unless they're working with an extreme case or a child.
The only thing more dangerous than a file named -rf is renaming it -rf\ /
I AM a victim!
My behavioural problems exist, therefore they must be caused by a disease!
Bollocks.
Most ADHD, as the parent post says, is normal childrens behaviour that goes unchecked by poor parenting and the absence of discipline in schools.
There are a few cases where no amount of care and discipline will work, but to condemn millions of kids to a life of speed dependency is foolish.
He needs to be educated about ADHD as he's acting like a bigot who doesn't understand where you're coming from.
Secondly, NEVER advertise that you have ADHD. You'll either receive the treatment noted above or they'll treat you like you're retarded.
I know, If I would read such a long comment as I just wrote here I would not stay interested and doze off to another comment or I would think about other things. That's some side-effect of ADHD.
If there are typo's or grammatical errors in this comment, please ignore, I am from Belgium / Europe and my main language is Dutch instead of English.
I am ADHD but I am not continuesly hyper, I am sometimes hyper whenever I am playing music (DJ) or when I am doing a lot of stuff at the same time. It also has a few negative effects while some I already managed to improve to positive for myself:
A few examples:
A lot of these problems (and I got a lot more problems because of the ADHD) can be altered to a positive side though. For example the time.
:)
... This is partially annoying and quite funny (I got to live with it so why cry about it?)
alarm clock example
Instead of putting my alarm clock 1 or 2 hours in advance I put it a day in advance so I am reminded of a certain event that day. My other clock reminds me to stay focussed and to be on time, the last clock tells me I am going to be too late if I don't hurry
My bills and notes get processed immediately, instead of putting it on the staple (and yes I still have 2 staples funny enough) I process it immediately. Costs me less money!
I need MY time
I need my own private little time to process stuff, if I need to work according someone elses timeschedule it will not work out. Deadlines are very hard to make though it is possible. Stress will get me working slower instead of faster.
More information about my way of living
I have a lot more information of my way of living with ADHD on my website, this is the direct link to my ADHD article.
It has its positive ways too, I am DJ and I am very creative with designs and ART. I can do different things at one time without problems.
Feelings
I am somebody living/relying on feelings and reality instead of only reality. My feelings are mostly right.
Toughts
I am a thinker, I think 24/7 and even if I am sleeping I sometimes think in my dreams about solutions of a problem I could not solve the previous day
The ADHD part also makes me unique in one or another way because I have my own way of thinking, I would call it another view-of-perspective on the world. This also because I think in another way than most people think.
If I have a problem I will think in a "tree - structure". I will search all possible solutions by (creative) thinking. With those solutions I continue thinking what the positive and the negative impact might be on that solution. Even on those impacts I continue thinking. That way I t
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
i just graduated highschool this year and last year i was diagnosed with ADD after a year and a half of seeing a psychologists because it was thought i may have inherited my dad's bi-polar disorder or some form of depression. i was later tested and turns out, yay, i have ADD. the twist to this is that my IQ scores ranked me in the genius range. ive began to notice that some of my friends, also with very high IQ scores and obvious intelligence seem to exhibit the same traits i do, lack of concentration, inability to sustain interest. my point is, could there be some correlation between intelligence and ADD? like higher IQ brings higher risk for ADD?
i take a daily dosage of Concerta, a new drug for ADD that speeds up the process of neurotransmitters in the brain. the thing is, i did some research and found out that the long term effects have never been studied in humans, may cause abdominal pains, severe headaches, all of which i began to develop after a few months of taking the medicine. so i just started dumping my pills, letting my mom think i was still taking them. whats the point in being able to pay attention if you feel like shit?
I took ritalin from 6th grade through 12th grade, and then I quit for college. My GPA was less than spectacular (but not horrible either) for the first few semesters, but I got my act together, and I think it's worth it. Why, do you ask? I got tired of being two different people, one on the medicine and one off. When on the medicine, I missed the distraction. As much as it can be a hindrance to work, it also makes me much more creative. If you're doing a lot of group work, and have other people to double-check you, being off the medication can be a boost to the process.
Important note: I took Ritalin for 7 years, and couldn't possibly have gotten where I am today if I hadn't done it or something like it. It may take several years to get used to ADD or ADHD, but Ritalin helps in the process. Hopefully you'll be able to get off it like I did, but it's also quite possible that I was luckier than you'll be. In any case, the nice thing about ritalin is that it's not a 24/7 drug. Even if you take the 12 hour time release kind, that still gives you the evening and weekends to be your traditional wild self. Furthermore, many people actually feel more like themself when on the medicine and take it even when it's not necessary for work.
In short, don't worry about it a whole lot. You got diagnosed and you're getting treated, which is the important part.
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
* artist
Also requires an ability to focus, just to do it--not to mention that the people who make money are usually the ones who can handle the business side, too.
* programmer
Imagine somebody with ADHD on the project mentioned--was it yesterday? A few days ago?--that was going to require 12-hour days, 7 days a week until it got done.
* performer
Refer to the 'artist' listing. The performance arts always have their by-rote portions. Memorizing lines, rehearsing dance steps.
* teacher
With a good number of these in the family, I think you must be talking out of your ass. 'Grading papers' is generally referred to as a fate similar to death, and yet it still has to get done constantly.
* researcher
Requires things like 'paperwork' and 'observation'.
* negotiator
Gee, this is vague. Negotiator of what? Regardless of that, though, researching would have to be involved, to know the issue you're working with. And a great deal of patience.
Now, referring to the *rest* of the parent post:
ECT is actually still used, by choice, by people with severe depression problems, and some of them do actually think it works. It's not quite so barbaric as it used to be, and it's generally the patient's option.
Psychiatry *was* developed and practiced by researchers, yes. But most of the problems you seem to have with it could very well be applied to medicine in general. (Leeches, anybody?) But maybe you're in favor of just going to a homeopath. Hope that works out for you.
Pharmaceutical advertising is a very controversial thing. I don't agree with it, in general. Not for Paxil, not for Allegra, not for Vioxx, not for anything else. Social anxiety, however, is not somehow less real because of it. Perhaps, like the Victorians, we should just allow people to become invalids when they develop such problems, instead of medication. Who really needs to hold down a job, anyway?
Yes, sometimes people described as having ADHD really do have other problems. This is a problem with a good number of disorders, and is not in any way limited to the mind. That does not mean that everybody with the diagnosis is either misdiagnosed or 'faking it', nor does it mean that the medications aren't plenty safe and effective for their purposes.
Have you considered adopting Aspergers syndrome as your next excuse?
From your description of the symptoms, and especially the lateral thinking, Aspergers seems a much better bet.
For what it's worth, I agree with the parent post that ADHD is overdiagnosed at best and a non-disorder at worst.
oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
I have problems concentrating on things i like too, like reading a good book. I often wander and "read" for several pages only to realize that I didn't really process any of it, so I have to go back and read it again. When you do something you REALLY like, you release a bit of adrenalin which gets the blood flowing which allows you to concentrate for a limited amount of time. If a person had to release adrenalin every time they needed to concentrate on anything then they would probably have a bit of an overload.
Perhaps that masturbating sound I heard coming from the server room all this time was actually a hard drive meltdown!
*dashes out of room*
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
According to the same psychiatrist, using caffeine to treat ADD is generally undesirable because caffeine affects so many different receptors, in a "shotgun" fashion. The trend in psychopharmacology is to develop and prescribe drugs that affect neurotransmitters selectively, e.g., norepinephrine alone or serotonin alone.
A lawyer & digital forensics examiner. Also an expert on open source software (OSS).
I was diagnosed with ADHD in the third grade, I continue to question this diagnosis, and I use natural alternatives to ritalin, after I began refusing to take ritalin in the 9th grade. Do you really want to be on a drug that will radically affect your sleep patterns, libido, eating habits, mood, and could possibly cause permanent damage to your liver and metabolism? All for the sake of some mysterious psychobabble called 'being able to focus.' Whatever the fuck that is.
Take off every Sig.
I don't think I've ever seen so many posts on Slashdot to a non tech issue. Normally you only see 1000+ posts to stories about MS colluding with SCO to dominate the world.
Anyway, I am a clinical psychologist, and I obviously got in on this discussion too late.
I'm not sure where you're coming from, but attention problems are very real, and they're not something that we just concoct to pad our wallets.
Sure, there are problems with overdiagnosis. But it's not always entirely the psychologist or psychiatrist's fault. I see tons of parents in upper-middle-to-upper-class households come in with their kids who have IQs of about 100, placed in classrooms where the average IQ is 130, complaining about their kid being "behind", and demanding something to fix the problem "or else." I also see parents coming in with children with conduct problems, kids who really just need discipline and a bit of strong-arming, complaining about their kids attention problems. When you tell them it's a conduct problem, they just go to a psychiatrist, who gives them drugs. And finally, if the kids are old enough, they sometimes somaticize, and complain about their attention problems and "lack of memory for their entire life", and ask for attention medication, when they're really depressed and histrionic. Their parents are more comfortable with a neurocognitive problem than an a neuroemotional problem, so they encourage diagnosis of ADHD rather than depression or anxiety.
But, most of the time the ADHD is very real. These kids--and adults--just can't focus worth damn, and it's a real problem that affects their life. And it's not just like some mildly unusual kids--these kids literally can't sit still, are bouncing off the walls, always getting out of their chair, fiddling with every frickin thing in the testing room. They're not just a little different--they have a problem. And what's great is that you can usually treat it, helping these kids, without any side effects.
Someone else posted the DSM-IV criteria for ADHD. It's informative. I don't usually agree with the structuring of the DSM, but you think about it: can you meet 6 of those criteria in one category, honestly? Probably not. Maybe if you're biasing your self-report for the sake of argument, or maybe if you're depressed. But it's damn difficult to meet six of those nine criteria (without meeting criteria for other things like depression) with standardized measures, rating scales, observational scales, and computerized tests of performance. In other words, if you say you meet them, fine. But go to a good psychologist and see if you can meet them in a standardized way. It's not easy.
There's plenty of studies now on ADHD to validate its existence: fMRI studies, observational studies, longitudinal studies, molecular genetic studies, population genetic studies--you name it. It's not worth my time to go into it here. If you seriously believe it's bullshit, go look ADHD up in Medline or PsychINFO or your behavioral citation database of choice.
Now, I'll be the first person to admit the diagnosis has problems. The whole DSM has diagnostic criteria and structural problems. There are different types of ADHD, and some people aren't hyperactive at all, just inattentive. There's also issues with relationships with things like conduct disorder and general traits like impulsivity. But to say that the disorder is nonsense, is just nonsense.
Damn, I don't have time to get into a discussion of treatments now. The best thing, really, is probably medication. You have to try a few. There's a nonstimulant medication on the market now, Strattera, that might be interesting to try.
And as many others have posted, medication alone probably won't do it. You just have to figure out what's most distracting and learn to avoid it. For example, if you haven't already, get rid of distracting things in your room to do work. Occupational therapy does help a lot, although it usually helps more with people who have
I am probably ADD (not needing of drugs though, got a real tight lock on my behavior through self-training)... or as I prefer it, a hyperactive, overly masculine thinking, intellectual, hyper-focus male. ADDs aren't smarter... they are just more temporarily focused and almost psychotically driven to do something NOW. NOW! NOW! NOW! Anything that requires work beyond now? Well, that quickly looks impossible to them according to their history with long projects. They know what is going to happen. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
(Just a sidebar, does anyone know any gay ADDs? Is anyone gay and ADD? I think I have not met a one, I think it is tied in with masculinity, because I have not seen a lot of ADD females as well. I think it is a testosterone and something else combo, I just think it is also completely natural. I came out of the womb as a "ball of fire" as my mother put it.)
Listen up. This job may save your life. Put food on the table and get a little respect with some women out there.
I am a news photographer. Sometimes it is creative, sometimes it is not. It is always NOW, NOW! NOW! NOW! It is the best job for ADDs. I knew for the longest time that this is what I should do. Non-ADDs have a tough time coping with it. The pressure is huuuge. I scares the hell out of non-risk takers. If you're ADD? You're Sgt. York charging the pillbox. You're Gen. Patton slapping the lieutenant. Donald Trump buying out everyone. You can't help it. So don't be ashamed. Use it, people. Use it well. All of those school teachers hated you because you upset their plans. That is why they pilled your ass. Well, get off the pills and get hunting.
So why do I love it? It is a perfect match.
I hunt people. You have no idea how gratifying that is. I needed that my whole life. I chase them all over the streets of Nashville, TN. Me and my truck ("my office") runs like a hound with aggressive abandon through the tall trees of a city. I HUNT. I HUNT AGAIN. I HUNT SOME MORE. I hunt for four deadlines a day. No time to argue. No time to confuse or worry. Someone else does the paperwork. I hunt and stay as creative as possible. They worry about the details. My job is to stay aggressive, and push.
It is pressure (and not surprisingly, ADDers and ADD-similars LOVE PRESSURE) and it is creativity and speed. You should see the personalities in my newsroom. It is an ADD convention. All non-ADDs just can't compete. We do in a half-hour what many people do all day.
So Poppa, here is my advice.
I know he'll be successful in whatever he decides to do. I don't consider grades to be an indicator of his future success.
He will be. You just have to give him more "woods time." Men never become huge successes selling the world their weaknesses. Making him conform or be well-rounded turns him into a well-rounded conformist. He would have conformed if it was possible at a young age. Don't confuse the boy. Give him expectations that he cannot be, because he can do things others cannot. He will be "hunting" soon enough and happier than most if you give him the tools. Often, "the tools" are just laying down the law IN ABSOLUTE TERMS about physically aggressive behavior (this includes the tightest possible moral upbringing... because little schoolyard tussles will literally make them go "buck wild" on the other kid that just started by simply shoving or calling names) and just letting him "just do" on everything else.
School tortured me. I was almost a straight A student. Nonetheless, it tortured the living hell out of me. College did the same. When I got out I went straight to the news business. I had to hunt. It was either that or be a US Marshall and track fugitives. Maybe try to join the CIA. Something like that. I had to push. No doubt.
He'll be more than fine if you give him morals and camping trips where he can build and do everything himself.
Logic by HanzoSan
-----------------
1) People who are Lazy in school claim to have ADHD
2) You claim to have ADHD
3) Therefore you are lazy
This is a site primarily for techies. Lets hope you don't waste your time here thinking you`ll end up with a well paid job with computers with that kind of `thinking`.
Oh, and you may want to change your name to HanzoCunt.
for all you idiots out there that claim ADHD or ADD is a myth, know your facts. it HAS been studied, it HAS been proven, it HAS been documented as a REAL disorder. ADD is caused by a variety of "short circuits" in the brain such as lack of neurotransmitters bridging the synapse between axons and dendrites, low levels of serotonin in the brain, or low levels of dopamine. ADHD is can be caused by just the opposite; rate of neurotransmitters is either too fast or over diluted, serotonin and dopamine levels are too high in the brain. lack of neurotransmitters can also cause depression or manic depression which is characterized by periods of somber quietness to manic episodes.
Your still wrong, the original poster was correct. It has never been proven by the medical community. It is a medical crime being carried out by drug companies and backed by people who must place blame on others for their own problems.
After reading your reply I can only figure one of two things, one your not on your medicine, or two, your just an asshat who needs to shout an cuss to justify themself to the world.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
just so you know, ritalin, concerta, etc. for the most part all meds they keep pushing on us who have ADD or ADHD, the key component is methylphenadate, gee, wanna know what else is comprised of that little chemical? crack cocaine and speed. before you let a doctor have you popping pills every morning, do your homework and find out whats in your drugs.
Question
http://www.ironfroggy.com/
It's attitudes and replies such as this that laid the groundwork for the addidtion of ADHD people in the 'Disabilities Act'.
The Act is designed to protect people with ADHD from un-informed, un-deucated, people such as yourself who have never encountered people with ADHD.
Also, your reply also gives yet another example of the type of bigoted crap we have to go through on a Daily basis.
Dolemite
______________________
Save the World! Use a Quote!
I was diagnosed with aDHD when I was 27.
I found drinking excessivly helped me focus, albiet I was tired, I was able to stay focused on menial tasks...
Now I've transitioned into sleeping no less then 8 hours a night and working out at least 3 times a week. I've cut sugar down to a minimum and I have a lot of coffee when I get up... I have very little symptoms now and am generally focused alert and happy. It takes a bit of discipline to get those 8 hours in though.
I agree that you don't need pills to deal with this. I think that taking pills for problems like this is at best a temporary way to avoid the problem, and will always lead to complications later. There are better solutions.
I believe that I would have been diagnosed with ADD as a child if it were as popular in the 70's and 80's as it was in the 90's. Certainly all of the symptoms associated with it are all too familliar to me. However, I have never taken medication for it and have managed things just fine.
In grade school I always had great difficulty doing homework, and focusing in class. I particularly hated math, and was always at the rock bottom of my class in timed math tests. When given 100 multiplication problems to solve, most of the class would finish in 3-5 minutes but after 10 I would be playing with my pencil, having done a small fraction of the problems. I enjoyed school generally, but was always daydreaming etc.
In "middle" school this was still a big problem but I was beginning to get it under control, and was greatly helped by going to a different school (and repeating 6th grade there) which focused on experiential learning, had small classes, lots of individual activities, and some great outdoors adventures. It was The College School in Webster Groves, MO. I think it was there that I got turned back on to learning since it was made so exciting and I could always use my creative urges within the system.
In high school I still had problems doing homework, and my grades were always mediocre at best. But I got turned on to music in band, which helped me learn to focus, and I had particularly good math teachers. As math started becoming more conceptual and less busy-work, I became more interested in it.
In college I was gaining much more control, and double-majored in Physics and Math. Focusing in class and turning in homework in was still an issue, but my grades were adequate. Again music, a great girlfriend who helped encourage me to have better study habits, and a good deal of independant projects were all most helpful. Good teachers made a big difference as well, since I was able to stay focused in classes when I could anticipate where the class was going, and think a little bit ahead of the lectures, trying to guess what would follow. I guess this was a kind of creative way to multitask while remaining on topic and with the professor.
Though my grades weren't exemplary, with strong recommendations I was able to squeak into grad school and continue learning about physics. I found the quality of teaching a little worse, and the subject matter more difficult, so I did terribly in classes. But the research was very engaging and a fantastic creative outlet. My advisor was very hands-on and we would talk strategy for several hours a week. I think this in particular helped me stay focused.
Fortunately for me, very few employers care about your grades once you have a Ph.D in physics. Good references made my post-doc job search very easy and fun, and now I'm having a great time doing what I love to do in a completely unstructured environment. It is very challenging work, but my self-discovery throughout my education has prepared me well. I still feel like I could easily be four times more productive at work than I am now. The new and less-structured environment has been more challenging then I expected. But I am steadily learning how to regain control and am starting to make real contributions to my new experiment.
So I guess what I'm saying is that there are other ways to deal with ADD than drugs, and these ways are difficult but are ultimately more rewarding. I feel that I'm not a slave to drugs, but instead have gained mastery over my thinking. I highly doubt that I would be where I am today if I were on drugs. The ADD is perhaps an overabundance of creative energy that can be harnessed. Being mildly scatterbrained is really a great way to connect different ideas from different subjects together and form new ideas. I would also be remiss if I didn't mention religion. I feel that prayer in Christian Science has been a major factor helping me to gain control of my myself while respecting my individuality.
Society is fucked up because it ostracizes and persecutes anything that is not the 'norm'. In this case it's ADHD'ers.
i've also heard of good results with small amounts of L-Dopa... good luck getting it though.
ADHD has been explained to me before as "too much dopamine causing over-motivation" but that was by a "counsellor" and not a "cluebie"
really, I don't know. I'm not an ADHD kid, I am a depression kid.
Gregory
--- ask me about nihilism, I will have nothing to tell you.
From Inattention:
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work or other activities
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)
(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools)
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities
I suspect I could say yes to items (d) through (i). How is losing my gym bag 2-3 times every winter as a kid a result of my boredom? Or my constant inability to leave the house with a key in my pocket?
The fact that I CAN NOT REMEMBER TO DO THINGS unless I have something beep at me - complete and utter absent-mindedness - is something I have a very hard time connecting with boredness.
It's real.
There IS a neurotransmitter whose function is to make you more / less attentive. There IS a symptom of deficiency of it. It IS real.
BTW: cartoons blink and beep. Video games pulsate and flicker and have a millions colors. These kinds of activities that people with ADD tend to be successful at have a thing in common: they naturally draw your attention towards them, by design and nature. ADD is not having NO attention, it is having a different kind of attention. These things naturally dovetail with ADD peoples need for more engaging activities.
Jag pratar lite svenska.
Damn. I wish I had the focus to put together a regiment like that. Best I can do is take some st john's wort when I remember, drink too much and smoke a lot of pot.
I also find it a little interesting that the same month WebMB and company have started running heavy ADHD ads on TV up here in Canada, pow, story appears on slashdot.
Makes complete sense the tie to sleep apnea.
Low blood oxygen levels would be my highest worry for you. Aerobic exercise and somewhat of a supplement regimen may work, only trial-and-error will tell. Ginkgo biloba increases circulation. A drug called "Hydergine" may be of interest, as it is a vasodilator, meaning it dilates the arteries, specifically those to the brain. If you have nasty allergies or sinus / nasal congestion, it's contraindicated, as it makes congestion worse. It can be purchased at www.qhi.co.uk.
I also was exercising every 3rd day with great results, but fell off the bandwagon recently with a nasty cold flu -- probably starting back up this week. Exercise is the best antidepressant.
Maybe adding the mystery meat increased your levels of fatty acids, and it is more of a fatty acid deficiency? There are various products that may be worth toying with, but I'd try the EPA / DHA combo in a high dose before any of them. The CLA may be worth testing for a 4-day period for the fog, the results are very quick if this is the ailment.
Definitely the Tyrosine would make sense in the morning. Even 1000mg or more may be warranted -- play with the dosage, and see how it does for you.
I couldn't do my homework in my classes that I felt I already knew.
So I'd work on my own personal video game at home.
I can work 18 hours straight AND enjoy myself if I'm creating, as opposed to trying to interface with someone else's code.
Also I can't do anything if I have many things on my mind, like holding down a crap job, or remembering schedules.
God spoke to me
This is also my problem with the Med profession. They follow a symptom checklist and if all the boxes are checked, you are diagnosed with something.
My brother was diagnosed with having a brain tumor. You can imagine the effect this had on my family (we are all close). Come to find out there was no tumor, just a doctor following a checklist. Like you, we found this out when he went to a brain specialist and had ALL the tests/scans done.
I was diagnised with Tourette Syndrome (which ADHD is one of the many symptoms) in 5th grade. From 5th grade to the time I was 18 I ran the gauntlet of every ADHD drug on the market, Orap, deceprimine, ridilan, ... ect. Skip to high school drop out... ect. So I move out on my own and guess what, I forget to take my drugs, doh.
That was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. I recommend that you learn to deal with you ADHD without these highly mind altering drugs.
I rescently graduated with a degree in mathematics from the University of Delaware. I never could have done that on those drug. I do have to pace alot when I think, and I can only code for about two hours a sitting without taking a break, sometimes less.
Even the non ADDErs will agree, humans were not ment to sit in cubicals for 8 hours. You now posess an excuse to get out take a break. Congratulations.
Diagnosed >1 year ago. In retrospect, I've had it all my life, but being a primarily inattentive (not a hyperactive) I never stood out. Instead, I got by in school via a good brain: tests and one-on-one discussions were engaging, and made up for a complete lack of homework.
So I get by, but I feel like shit 'cause I know I didn't do as good as I could. Graduation comes and goes. I continue my job at a University research lab, but scared to death about going back to grad school and failing.
Which led to the counseling, which led to the diagnosis....
Now I've some meds, which hardly work. Read as many books as I can keep interested, but haven't successfully implemented any real changes.
So I'm looking for other ways to improve my job/life. Which leads me to my real question:
Has anyone found pair programming (part of extreme programming) a useful tool to maintian focus on the job?
Anm
I used to take acidophilus at one time -- my naturopath initially prescribed it to get over the hump and get the digestive system back in order.
Other than that, I've been taking a broad-spectrum digestive enzyme that helps with the nasty meals that none of us should eat! IB-ZYME from Alpha Sciences Laboratories seems to be of great assistance occasionally.
I don't watch much TV, so I'm not sure if this is new or not, but last night I saw a TV commerical by Eli Lilly pushing adult ADD. Does anyone know when these ads started? It seems Lilly's recently launched a push to get some name recognition for this condition and suddenly we're discussing it on /.
You missed the point, ADD isn't multitasking, it is the opposite, it is doing exactly one thing at a time and then switching to something else, without any thought or expctation of going back to task one.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Actually the same bio-chemical factors that cause the brain to be flighty and over-excitable in ADHD sufferers also lead to greater creativity. Creative people who do not suffer from ADHD still exhibit many of the same different biochemical and neuro-electic characteristics that are commonly used as identifiers for ADHD types. I guess the break between simple creativity and diminishing disorder is probably very fine, and unfortunatly we don't know enough about the brain to be able to reign it in just enough to help the individual without changing the person they are. Maybe one day something much better than Ritlin or Welbutrin will be discovered that will allow ADHD sufferers to function more normally without altering them so much.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Try strattera instead of Ritalin. It seems to work better, but no stimulants and it's not a controlled substance!
A lawyer & digital forensics examiner. Also an expert on open source software (OSS).
There is a new (or at least updated) techniques for understanding how your brain is working called a SPECT scan.
Check out www.brainplace.com. They talk about ADD (among other things), and why a stimulant actually helps it.
I read one of his books. Good stuff. It helped me with ongoing depression.
Besides, the pictures are really cool.
I disagree with you. I know three people who truly have ADHD, and they definitely have a condition. It is not laziness! One is a very talented and accomplished musician. Another works for UPS in the morning as a pre-loader, and from there goes to work his own business as a landscaper (minimum of 15 hours a day!). The third is in a network manager for a well-known IT service.
/.-ers know what it takes to be a good network manager/engineer (with Cisco cert.'s and all) in charge of a team of three engineers.
The first and the third take Ritalin. The second does not, he gets by through using his energy working very physically demanding jobs. All three are very intelligent, very hard working, and in no way lazy! ADHD is not laziness, it is quite the opposite. It is the inability to focus, and with that there is an inability to slow down long enough to focus.
I knew the musician all his life. When he was a kid, he would go at full throttle all day long to the point where he would be so exhausted that the moment he sat down in the evening, he fall into a deep sleep in seconds. When he started taking ritalin, it made an enormous difference in his life. You don't become that talented musically by playing video games all the time and thinking about playing an instrument. Nor do you run a successful business with 25 employees in a highly competitive market by being lazy. I assume most
Someone with ADHD is like a clock without a pendulum to regulate their activity. The hands spin around and around out of control. Add the pendulum to slow things down and regulate what they're doing, suddenly you can make sense of what's going on. You can tell when the meds have worn off, because you can see through their behavior that their minds are racing and unable to get a grip on the subject. Hm- maybe a car spinning its tires is a better analogy. There's a lot of energy going on, but the car is going nowhere until the driver slows down the engine enough to allow the tires to get a grip.
Yes, ADHD is probably over diagnosed and there are a lot of people that use it as an excuse. But ADHD has a clear diagnostic pathology, one that includes an MRI or PET scan to reveal particular neurological traits in order to confirm the condition. Depression does plague people with ADHD, because they can get stressed out fairly easily. That could account for those you comment on that sit around doing nothing all day. If they haven't taken control of the condition, it tends to take control of them. With depression, you end up with someone who appears "lazy" because they "sit around all day."
There are two kinds of hype about ADHD: one, that someone with ADHD is totally out of control and can't get work done, the second is that ADHD doesn't exist; that it's a made up condition so we can drug kids into proper behavior.
Whew! This water sure is cold!
A few years ago a doctor thought I had ADHD.. I was hyper all the time, couldn't focus on any one thing, and was just crazed. I took Adderall for a while, till the point that I was having heart palpatations (bad stuff that cocaine is). My blood pressure went up, and subsequently I cut down my caffeine intake to 1 12-ounce can a day. Within 3 days, my whole world changed.. All my symptoms went away, and I was much more focused and less "jumpy" all the time.
I swear.. Caffeine is an addictive substance, and can be the cause of a lot of mis-diagnosed ADHD things I bet (heck give a 32oz coke to a 10 year old and through him into a ADHD clinic).
People with ADHD are normal in every way, the only difference is, people with ADHD prefer to multitask and get bored focusing on one thing for too long.
ADD is far from multitasking. I have ADD and I have the impulse to focus on something else constantly, but I can only effectively do one thing at a time. Before I figured out how to control the symptoms (for the most part) I would never finish anything, I would start one thing with the intention of finishing it, and then I would, without explanation, change tasks, NEVER RETURNING TO THE FIRST. That is not multitasking, that is ADD.
Anyone who thinks people with ADD can multitask doesn't understand ADD.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
The difference between a trait and an "illness" is whether its a problem -- has it impacted your life negatively? If the answer is yes, do what you can to treat it. I don't understand why people regard mental health issues differently than physical health issues. If you had a treatable physical problem that prevented you from doing a task (let's say asthma) and you took medication that allowed you to excercise, nobody would be passing judgement on you for doing so...
People will say "nobody likes to clean their room/wash dishes/pay bills/blah blah blah" but what they don't understand is the lack of ability to do so. Sometimes it feels like "the task" and myself are polarized. And the closer I get to the task, the harder it pushes me away. It can be maddening!
I was diagnosed with ADD several years ago and have subsequently been treating it with meds (adressing some of the symptoms), therapy (addressing the effects of having ADD all my life), and "occupational therapy" -- techniques for dealing with ADD.
I like some of the effects of ADD -- quick thinking, creativity, "hyperfocus" -- getting lost in a task, and so on. It's a part of who I am. I don't like many of the others -- difficulty starting and stopping tasks, connecting with others, and many more.
Find a good Psychiatrist or therapist familiar with treating adult ADD. See them as often as you can afford to!
On the the topic of occupational therapy, try and identify things that are barriers to you being an effective person. Lose your keys all the time? Find a place to put them, and put them there ALWAYS.
One thing that has changed for me from taking medication is that I am less funny than I used to be, but that's OK -- I had a bitter, angry (but very funny) way of expressing myself...
Of all the meds I have tried, I like Adderall XR the best, but I suggest you experiment some.
You might find some benefit from taking Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil or flax oil). It seems to help.
Read Driven to Distraction.
Check out some other books on the topic.
Herbal/natural "treatments" for ADD are crap. Snake oil salesmen -- go to hell.
Regarding telling people you have ADD, I wouldn't, not in so many words, until you understand it and them better. Instead, identify some of the aspects of your symptoms, and tell people you have trouble with those areas. If you have trouble completing tasks, tell people that! Ask for their help in getting something done. All that might entail is them checking on you. Identify things that get you off-track. Change them.
Here's some I use: I don't have my email check automatically. Rather, I check it manually when I need a break or am done with a task. Turn off IM stuff unless you NEED it to talk to someone. Use surfing the web as a reward for accomplishing something you needed to do. Let voicemail catch your calls, and answer the messages on your terms.
I'd much rather have ADD than not be smart and creative. There are WAY worse problems! I think it's pretty common in high tech (but not as common as it is in prison populations!).
Good luck!
I was diagnosed with Pathetic Pectorals Disorder (PPD). My local psuedoscientist prescribed me some horse steroids and now I can live a normal, huge-chested life. Thanks, Doc!
Software patents delenda est.
I completely agree with you, just because it's "natural", doesn't mean it's safe. There aren't any herbs in my regimen, other than ginkgo biloba -- but anything in excess causes problems.
If I don't take the regimen for a day, no biggie. I've missed a day, but probably wouldn't want to miss two days or the mood swings and anxiety would probably perk up mildly again. With treating using EPA / DHA instead of a mood stabilizer such as Depakote / Epival / Divalproex Sodium, I find it more of a long-term effect, not like if I miss a dose I go off the wall.
I've had the vitamins / minerals reviewed with a naturopath, done some basic bloodwork, etc., but most of the stuff is benign in the doses I'm taking.
The medical system in Canada is far from ideal. Actually seeing a specialist, let alone one who cares, takes forever, and in the end, they don't seem objective to all of the information.
My experience with this is as follows. . . Went back to my doctor to renew a prescription of Paxil that he didn't fill, as he was too busy to make the initial appointment within a two-month period, but he found the dose too low, and not an "effective dose" -- textbook thinking. I mentioned it addressed the anxiety, but left me feeling numb and dopey. Went on Effexor, made it completely worse, didn't leave the house for about two weeks. Painstakingly switched back to Paxil, went through the withdrawal effects of Effexor, including nasty dizzy spells.
My doctor is aware of the vitamin and supplement regimen, and in the last appointment, finally seemed supportive of it. Obviously, as an M.D., anything more than the R.D.I. or R.D.A. is beyond what anyone needs. For instance, I occasionally take an additional vitamin B6 supplement for a few days when my wrists flare up with more acute carpal tunnel, kicks it right in the butt. This could be considered a vitamin deficiency, but from a conventional wisdom, anything above the RDA is a waste or harmful.
To be honest, the Paxil and SSRIs made the mood swings much worse rather than better, there is much documentation on SSRIs causing rapid cycling. In excess, 5-HTP and Tyrosine can probably cause a similar effect, but not to the same degree, due to saturation of the enzymes that convert them from precursors to actual neurotransmitters. (Both Vitamin B6-dependent enzymes.)
With exercise every three days, including weight training and cardio, I've never felt better and more stable in my life.
Believe me, it took forever, like huge research. . . A few beers has a great effect, but anything more causes drunkenness, and more highs and lows.
Pot never worked out that well for me -- just made me stupid, too mellow and low, although it works for a lot of people with racing minds.
My caveat involves two things.
1) Ask a trusted friend or two to monitor your behavior. Not heavily, but enought that there are no social barriers to approach you if you start behaving erratically. I've had several friends on the same drugs and they all behave differently. Some excell, but some start developing peculiar traits: aggression, memory loss, ability to focus, but inability to make larger decisions.
2) Beware alcohol use with these drugs. Even if your doctor or friends say combining the two is fine, it isn't always true. Some people have latent psyco-chemical problems with alcohol which don't always develop until the synergistic effect of psychological drugs interplay. Again, ask friends to be candid about your behavior. You will most likely not have a problem, but since you are concerned enough about your mind functioning correctly, at least make sure it is functioning correctly. You may feel vast improvements, but may be acting aberrantly and not know it. Good Luck
postmodernsideshow.com
In your listing of drugs that are effective against ADD, you overlooked Strattera, which the FDA approved for sale in January, 2003. AFAIK, it's the first non-psychostimulant approved specifically for treating ADD. Other non-psychostimulants can be used to treat ADD (e.g., Wellbutrin, a/k/a Zyban or buproprion hydrocholride), but the FDA originally approved them for treating disorders other than ADD (in the case of Wellbutrin, depression).
A lawyer & digital forensics examiner. Also an expert on open source software (OSS).
If you can find one person with it who actually thought school was fun but couldn't concentrate in class, well then I'll believe you.
I enjoyed it, particularly math class, until after I drifted off, and got yelled at for not answering when I was called on...
Then I got diagnosed and started to receive treatment, I started to enjoy it more, because I was being praised for doing well rather than reprimanded for not doing much...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
There a previous story on slashdot that talk about a modern drug, know as modafinil (also know as provigil). http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/04/17/184325 1&mode=thread
Basically it talk about how to extend the day by popping up this pill. However it is the first medecine that can increase attention and prevent basic narcolepsy symptom without acting on dopaminergic and norandrenaline system. So it cannot alter mood or does not need to take re-uptake to regenerate dopamine ! And there is enought research about it that can also be better than actual methylphenidate or dextroamphetamines for treatment of narcolepsy and ADHD !
However, it activate your glutamineegic system... so chinese food and a lot of Omega-3/9 will increase his efficiency !
There is a tendency to treat both 'conditions' with the drugs developed for ADHD.
I like you...and I can fully agree....Please tell me you've read Principia Discoridia. I'm not joking or bs-ing with you. I'm serious. Chaos theory is a very awesome way to hone in what you can do with adhd... and, yes, I have done all the things you specified, even down to spending 3 years in my senior class, after 2 years as a junior cuz those damn HS prix jus won't let me do what I want and leave me alone, get out of the frieckin square-dance class(not like I'm ever gonna use it afterwards), jus get outta my life, u know?...only diff is I'm 23, not 26, and don't take the pills... I like you.
When I was a kid, disruptive children were spanked, and there was no such thing as ADHD.
Now, you can go to prison for disciplining a brat, even your own brat in the privacy of your own home, and suddenly half of all kids are diagnosed ADHD.
ADHD = undisciplined brat, and PC idiocy is to blame. I'm not advocating child abuse, but in the long run a well-deserved spanking can have a very positive effect on a child's behavior.
Yes, I have it and when I look back, seems I've suffered from it for a long time. It seems to be TOO much attention at times. To me, I explain it like your 'radar' is picking up thousands of signals and your brain has to sort out the good signals from the bad which takes time and engergy. Most people that know someone with ADHD will notice they will start on a projects and then jump to something else, then something else, like hundreds of nested subroutines. Before you know it, you're supposed to goto the market, and then the next thing you know, you're painting the house! I tend to hyperfocus on things that I like, spending hours with something and getting mad when I get interrupted yet my attention wanders when I'm in a class listening to something boring or the wife is yelling at me. ADHD is not a defect, its just a different method of doing things. I actually tend to function better when I have a very busy day at work and can multitask better when my brain is at 100% load. I get bored easily. I used to be good at cooking because of so much going at one time. I take adderol which I find helpful although I get sluggish when it wears off. For those of us that get these racing thoughts just spinning around, you just have to tell yourself STOP. Stop all the wild thoughts and force yourself to return to something you may have stopped. Making lists also helps instead of trying to remember it all and use some self talk when you catch yourself doing ADD type behaviour. It's not easy to do to always be aware of one's behaviour, but the effort is worth it and makes things easier. Of course, getting others to understand your ADD is probably even harder to do.
-- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
A study was done on a few children with ADD. The motivation had to do with poor diet not providing enough. "...magnesium has reduced hyperactivity in children in preliminary research. Other research suggests that some children with ADD have lowered levels of magnesium. In a preliminary but controlled trial, 50 ADD children with low magnesium (as determined by red blood cell, hair, and serum levels of magnesium) were given 200 mg of magnesium per day for six months. Compared with 25 other magnesium-deficient ADD children, those given magnesium supplementation had a significant decrease in hyperactive behaviour"
LET'S GO PLAY CARS!!!!!
Let me tell you something about ADHD. While it is a proper diagnosis in a few cases, it wasn't in mine. Here's the story:
I was diagnosed with ADD when I was 13. My teachers in school thought my attention span was too short, and were afraid that I wasn't living up to my potential. In that respect, they were partly right, which I will explain later. But, as a result, I was put on ritaline, the common "solution" to the AD(H)D problem.
Ritaline, for the most part, had no effect on me that I could tell. I didn't feel more focused than I already was, I didn't feel more calm, I didn't feel different at all. I did feel, however, that my parents were wasting their money on the whole deal.
My teachers were partially right when they felt I wasn't paying much attention. And here's why: I've known since I was in the 2nd grade that I had a high IQ (146) compared to my classmates. The reason my attention span was so dismal was because I felt (and still feel) that the public school system is a total failure. Information was not coming at me fast enough. Teachers would often spend a week hammering over and over on the same subject matter. Personally, I needed information coming at me at a faster rate.
I retain what I read/learn rather quickly, and rather well. But of course, at that time, I was a minor and adults thought otherwise. They made the mistake of lumping me together with the other kids, and I couldn't convince them otherwise. But when they kept pounding at the same bit of information over and over (sometimes for a week or more), I became both bored and distraught at the fact that I wasn't getting the quality education I felt I deserved. So what did I do? I became defiant. I rebelled in my own little way towards a system which I believe has failed, both me and many millions of children all accross this country. I refused to do homework, and I was always good with tests, never needing to study much at all. I felt my point was being made, but that it wasn't being received, because I was expected to be like all the other students in my class.
<br>It was around then that the Internet became available on a wide scale. I saw the oppertunity and jumped on it with reckless abandon in an attempt to educate myself. And boy, did it work. If it weren't for the Internet and the wealth of information I was able to get from it, I would have suffered the same fate that the good majority of public school students have been doomed to: a sub-standard education.
Our society these days is too quick to want to find a medical or physiological answer to a problem that it created by its damn self. We want to run off to the doctor or the shrink because we don't want to face the reality of the situation. Basically, we want someone to tell us that it's going to be OK instead of making it OK by ourselves. We perscribe drugs that have little or no effect on us, yet we're firm in the belief that they will solve all the problems for us. BULLSHIT.
We need to get our heads out of our asses and realize that things don't work because WE FUCKED UP, and there's no magic pill that will solve these problems. There's no pill on the market today (or even in the far future) that will fix the nightmare that our public school system has become. And there's no pill that can cure the pains in the ass that people have become over the last 20 years, either...
How about, instead of cutting back on the caffine, parents take an active role in the education of their children instead of relying on the public school system to do it all for them. Get off your duff, quit being an asshat and START BEING AN ACTIVE PARENT. It's not the school's job to prepare your child for entry into society as a functioning member - IT'S YOUR JOB.
It isn't rocket science...
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
A lawyer & digital forensics examiner. Also an expert on open source software (OSS).
Here's a link to support his claim that doctors now think it might be better to only eat every *other* day.
Click Here
notice how the rats that fasted and gorged on the other days were even more healthy than those that were kept on a daily diet-control program.
- snip -
I speak from experience, Its not a matter of opinion.
- snip -
What experience might that be? You don't seem to back this up at all, much like the rest of your comments.
Please fill us in on this experience.
You'll never solve your ADHD problem if you think of yourself as disabled.
How do you know what helps in getting over it? Is this based on your own experience with the diagnosed condition, or is it just the usual "pick yourself up by the bootstraps" rhetoric from someone who talks tough but has no experience or credibility? (Please, apply to run for office as a law-and-order candidate. We expect this BS from those guys.)
From where I sit, the moment when my best childhood friend admitted her depression and stopped telling herself to just get over it was the moment she started being able to deal with it. Just my experience, man.
Look I've been there... This happens to everyone, not just you,
Really? Is this based on your comprehensive knowledge of human nature, or what? 'Cause I had the naive idea that the ADHD diagnosis was founded on the statistical models underlying the DSM-IV. I'm sure you've read it, based on your sage advice here.
Sure, mental health isn't in the same area as physical medicine -- it is based on these stats models, and it's harder to tease out causal relationships there -- but it's better than "I've been there, I felt lazy in college too." Better by a long shot.
ADHD is not a disease...
Neither is depression, in your glorious opinion. Which, as far as I can tell, is based on nothing other than self-righteousness.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Nothing but a hoax invented by the drug industry to keep you buying their stuff.
But it is soo much more convenient to give your child a pill...right? Even if a little change in diet, less sugar, less caffein, more outside playing AND care would do better.
Great post! I printed a copy of it to refer to in the future.
The fact is that there are many of us out there who had ADD or ADHD as children who never did grow out of it. I wish I had. I could hyper-focus on some tasks without even realizing I was doing it, and later something else that I was actually interested in would make me fall asleep. My doctor says that many adults with ADD tend to fall asleep easily when engaged in non-interactive tasks, such as listening to college lectures, reading, or even driving. She tells me that many young adults with ADD who are undiagnosed tend to turn to alternatives for relief, such as alcohol, marijuana, or cocaine. Cocaine helps avoid the sleeping, and alcohol and marijuana slow down the complete blur of thoughts going through our heads which prevent us from actually focusing on the tasks which we want and need to focus on.
I love my work as a sytems administrator. But I found that managing my tasks, meeting deadlines, reading documentation, and other rather important tasks to someone in my job field were practically impossible. I tried making better use of calendaring and task-management software, but those only work if you actually look at them. I tried a PDA. I turned it on once every 3-4 weeks. For a while I'd get better with those, but then it'd fall apart the minute some monkey wrench got thrown into my routine, like, say, an on-call week where I wind up working half the night and sleeping most of the day. In those instances showering, brushing my teeth, and a variety of other seemingly routine tasks could be forgotten, let along dentist appointments, con calls, and meetings with my accountant at tax time. And making mental notes was practically a useless effort. In fact, the straw that broke the camel's back and made me finally go see a doctor about all of this was the fact that I had a 'mental note' for three weeks, and a note in my calendar for two weeks to go shopping for a first anniversary present, or at the very least, a card for my wife. I take full responsibility for the fact that she got nothing from me but an apology for our first anniversary, but I decided to check and see if there was a way that I could prevent this from happening again.
My doctor currently has me on 40mg of Metadate CD, along with 1mg of Klonopin to counter the anxiety that the Metadate causes. I don't want to be on these drugs. My wife and I are working to find some routines to help me be more productive without them. But in the meantime, I'm meeting my deadlines, functioning better in my job generally, remembering tasks and actually completing them much more effectively than before, and for the first time in years now, I've been able to read books without falling asleep after 3 pages. I was a voracious reader as a young person. I finished a Tom Clancy novel in two days, once, because I was so hyper-focused on it, that I don't even remember eating during that time. For about 9 years, I haven't been able to read much of anything, somtimes not even books that I'd read before, and loved. Since being on my meds, I can read again.
I know you might be doubtful of ADHD. But my experience tells me that it exists, and that I have it. ADD and ADHD are behavioral disorders, not behavioral traits. Just because we don't know what causes it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If you think that it does, then you've read too much Nitsche. We don't know what causes Alzheimer's, but we know it exists, too. I have ADD.
Just a quick note of my experiences.
I was diagnosed with combination of ADD and a bipolar disorder in high school (just about 8 years ago). I was put on amphetimines my senior year. I had a horrible reaction to them. I can remember taking an English final the first semester after starting on it. While I did really well (my concentration was _great_), I didn't sleep that night, and missed school the following day. This continued on and off throughout the semester; I'd be fine a few days, and then would miss school, and then had to catch up, it sucked. My parents were concerned, and my doctor took me off the med. I've refused to take meds since. I changed my diet, and I started exercising more. This had the benefits of getting me away from a computer and I still am able to sleep better, too.
I've recently started to reduce my caffeine intake, and for some reason this seems to help, while I was expecting the opposite. I do have times where I'll go blank, or my mind will wander, and I'll forget what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm now trying paper to-do lists. I've been working at a new job where I have my own cube where the office isn't so busy. I don't have a lot of distractions, and I can focus on just a couple of tasks at a time.
Wellbutrin is what works best for my wife. She has ADHD and Depression. Some of the previous drug combos did crazy things to her, Wellbutrin actually manages to treat most things, without changing her personality or anything, it just makes it easier for her to do the things she wants to do.
As for managing pain without drugs, I have chronic back pain and I'm a Martial Artist, I live with pain every day that would make most people lay down and cry. I don't take medication for it most of the time because the pain encourages me to be careful and to seek actual treatment for things. When I cover the pain up I tend to forget that I'm hurt or that my back isn't at 100% and start doing things that aggravate the injury. Also, in order to stop my back pain I can't just take some tylenol or excedrin or something, they don't do anything. I can eat a bottle of extra strength tylenol and still be in crippling pain. So all of my pain meds are prescription (Loratab) and make me loopy as hell. Pain tells you something isn't working correctly and needs to be fixed. People should pay more attention to that instead of popping some pills and going about their business.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Here's the deal. . . I feel great with who I am, felt good before, but feel in some senses I was inhibited before learning this degree of knowledge. Self esteem is not tied to this.
Some people see the world as ultimate complexity, some people see it as ultimate simplicity. I fall in the former camp.
For instance, I sucked at any formalized education system, namely high school and college. Grades were never a strong suit, but I could understand anything if I put enough effort and was interested in it enough. With minimized anxiety, stable moods, I now have the ability to pursue further what my ambitions were in the past, and this means a hell of a lot.
Sure, maybe I'd be O.K. with a combination of Paxil / Wellbutrin / Depakote, but not at my best. Or, I could cut most of it it out, stick with a multi-vitamin, fish oils, and most of the stuff would be fine too. Or, not do anything at all (because doing something about a problem would make you a hypochondriac) and continue to live life, make behavioral changes, but never have the opportunities to truly pursue one's dreams.
Exercise makes an extreme difference -- if I had the time on a daily basis, it would cut the list in half, as a minimum.
"Natural" does mean dick! I only offer these opinions as mere personal experiences, not that it is necessarily the right route to go, but merely to give back knowledge to the people on the process and what various results of each step were -- not to replicate the equation.
Right on!
I grew up with ADHD. I took ritilin early on to help me focus, and according to my Mom and grade school teachers it worked ( one of my teachers thought I should be institutionalized, either I had it bad, or she was impatient, maybe both.. ) Realize this was in the late 60's early 70's, and it was not as common as today to diagnose someone ADHD.
Lucky for me, my Mom had some sense, and did not keep me drugged up all of the time. During the school year, she made sure I took the medicine, in as low a dose as was effective, in order to help me in dealing with learning, school, other kids, etc, etc. ( you need someone to monitor you, I had *no* idea how I was doing... ) Off times ( and I think weekends ), I was off the medicine, in order to help me to learn to deal with how I was. I thank God every day she did.
A crutch is a good thing, but becoming reliant on it will not do you good long term. IHMO, you will do yourself a big favor if you get to where you can cope without.
I now work as a programmer, and, I think, not too bad a one. I have taken on tech lead type positions as well, and I think I have been moderately successfull in that as well. I have a family and kids, and life is pretty normal for me.
AFA differences between me and my coworkers and being effective on the job, I have always found that my thought processes were different than the "normal" people around me. I dont know if that is a result of ADHD, or just how I would have been without. I find that there is no real/marked qualitative or quantitative difference in my thinking, just different, I find that I am able to function in the same league as the best of the developers I find myself working with. I write bugs just like everyone else, find and fix them like others, function in archetechtural discussions like others.
David J. Davison
emt 377 emt 4
...I see comments like this in the press pretty regularly. I'm glad he brought it up, it was very interesting to see the responses. And isn't that what slashdot is all about? *group hug* Peace.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
I highly recommend Driven to Distraction. It will go a long way toward helping you decide if you should be evaluated.
One of the explanations for the huge caffeine tolerance is that caffeine has an opposite effect on ADHD people than on "normals". It increases the ability to concentrate and has a calming effect. When my wife wants to go see a movie she always has a double espresso mocha before the movie so that she will be able to sit still.
Caffeine has many of the same properties that ADHD drugs do.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Do be careful - This runs in my family, bipolar that is, not ADHD (now that we looked at it a bit more carefully) but it took a near disaster with the meds to trigger the 'careful look'. My son was diagnosed ADHD, and given the usual stimulant based treatment - at the same time, the rest of the family was screened, and *surprise* Dad showed up way high on the ADHD scale as well, though they were a little surprised that the battery of tests also showed moderate clinical depression (warning sign that was missed). The Psych put me on Wellbutrin. Great stuff - work was much better, got the best review I'd had in years about 4 months later - very productive. Fast forward another 3 months, I don't need to sleep much anymore (3 hours is plenty) - but my temper is very short, everything is done to deliberatly piss me off, it's always my fault, etc. At the same time my son is spiraling into a major depression. Next medcheck with Psych his eyes get *REAL* big as I'm relating all this and he starts asking lots of family history questions that probably should have been asked before (alchoholism in family? Yep! Suicides in family? Yep, 3 gens back on moms side, cycling insommnia? only since I was 17...) Change in diagnosis - Bipolar. Now on Welbutrin and Topomax, fairly balanced (my son is on a different mood stabilizer to offset the stimulant - same problem). Seems that the Welbutrin, being an antidepressant had a slingshot effect and put me in a state higher than my "normal" manic phase - and I'm one of the 'antisocial' manic types, not the 'happy' manic types. [Dysphoria vs Euphoria] The point of the blather - the meds can help, but do be careful, as a manic state Bipolar can appear as ADHD (and vice versa) and antidepressants used in the treatment of Bipolar misdiagnosed as ADHD without some form of stabilizer can cause a massive swing to manic - which is not pretty.
Healing ADD by Daniel G. Amen. It describes 6 different types of ADD/ADHD and talks about symptoms and tested cures for each. I thought it was a load of bull at first, but after reading through the symtoms of the different types I was able to recognise that one of the lined up perfectly with the symptoms I have (whis is ADD, not ADHD) and the treatments that worked for him were the same ones that worked for me. After thinking about some of the other types I was able to identify them in other ADD/ADHD people I knew. The author describes his experiences in treating the different types with different meds or treatments and some general treatments that help most everyone.
If you look at the other threads here, you'll see greatly differing opinions on weither this med works or doesn't and so forth. Some treatments don't work for some people and the author has done a pretty good job defining categories of ADD.
Great book, a little long for anyone with ADD to read (ironic, isn't it?), but highly recommended.
Amazon Link
-Digitac
>dsmV i dont have one on me so corroberation >might be nice
You mean DSM-IV, also known as the _Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition_ The fifth edition is currently being compiled.
Thank you for your answer.But if my parents had found me too turbulent and agitated , then seeing my symptom match with the check list, I would have been diagnosed ADHD-ist by each alpha-doctor.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
A Dose of Reality
and also one about the massive increase in depression and other pyschological problems:
Toxic Culture USA
The second link is definately worth reading, and is quite disturbing. IMHO, there is something very very wrong, and it's not just a case of "a few people needing a few drugs".
--
Simon
Noticing that there are a lot of people that mention drinking a lot of caffeine during a day.
Research has shown that people have natural variations in their dopamine system, the neurotransmitter system in the brain that is most often implicated in ADD. A âoerisk taking geneâ that may be related to the dopamine system was even identified and found to be more common in people with ADD, although many people not classified as ADD also have the gene. Such people theoretically spend much of their lives looking for a âoedopamineâ fix to clear their heads. They might do this via novelty or thrill seeking, exercise, intellectual pursuits, or through artificial chemical means such as caffeine, nicotine or alcohol.
All,
ADD/ADHD has a world of "opinions" swirlling about it. For years I have resisted the label and avoided discussion in the area.
Recently, I have had some very difficult problems in my romantic relationship. She was convinced I had some "disorder" and set about to find out what it was. I reluctantly engaged in supporting her search. In the back of my mind, I was not happy with all my behaviors when I was around her.
When she went on a hunt at Barnes and Nobel to find books in the Self-Help section, she stumbled across Healing ADD by a Dr. Daniel Amen.
It caught my attention that this guy had distinguished ADD beyond the two types I had heard about. He talked about 6 types of ADD. So I popped the book open. It then had SPECT images describing his work analyzing the brains of his patients. It was these pictures that convinced me the disorder was more than just a symptom set with a label.
He talked about the frontal lobes and how they were not properly functioning as an over all executive planner, not inhibiting the rest of the brain properly. He talked about the singulate gyrus and its role in either inattentiveness (under functioning) or stuckness (over functioning). He talked about the temporal lobes and their effect on anger control. He talked about the limbic system and how its impairnment generated a lack of empathy common to ADDers. He was talking biological engineering. He was talking my language. It was awesomely fascinating. It was deeply disturbing.
What x-rays are to a bone doctor, SPECT images are to an ADD doctor. This guy had found a way to very accurately see the different brain sub-systems, their interrelationships and how to go about treating the CAUSES, not just the symptoms, of ADD.
I then noticed a chapter in the book called The Games ADD people play (see top of page). I read it while standing there in the book aisle (I read really fast). After finishing, I had a very disturbing feeling. This chapter seemed to echo much of my life. I could not believe the detail and correlation. I then marched right up to the counter and purchased the book. I know, quite impulsive...one of the premier symptoms of ADD.
Now, the book Healing ADD helped me focus on myself. It did not help me with my relationship challenges. A partner of Dr. Amen's, Jonathan Halverstadt, has written a book, A.D.D. & Romance. I am only half way through this one. However, it is proving to be VERY valuable in contributing to changes in my relationship to my romantic partner.
While I initially resisted the whole ADD label thing (being oppositional, another frequent symptom of ADD), I am so glad I relented and checked out that book when my girlfriend suggested it. I feel like I finally have a root cause explanation to SO MANY THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN MY LIFE, both GOOD and BAD.
If you have any question about whether you have ADD or not, it is WORTH checking out Dr. Amen's book Healing ADD. Seriously! If you DO have ADD, this book can literally change the rest of your life for the better. It has changed mine for the better...way better.
THE Private Pilot Adventure Guide
lets see, is it scientcamagy?... no... ...x.x.xxxenu?
is it scamantology?... doesn't sound right...
who could it be?
Hang in there, and work with a psychiatrist who's willing to try different combinations and dosages until you find what's right for you. I tried easily a dozen different permutations, and eventually settled (ironically enough) on the common Ritalin/Wellbutrin combo. Keep working at it. I know -exactly- what you mean about the well-meaning lists, creativity, sense of humor, and productivity tradeoffs.
Also - in combination with less-stifling meds, get into exercise and nutrition. Just about every person I've spoken to who's had a successful treatment, nutrition and exercise were crucial.
Good luck!
The parent post is *not* a troll. People, stop modding something troll/overrated/etc simply because you don't *agree* with what it's saying. The poster has a very good point and he communicated it well without insulting anyone. Now why the fuck is it modded into oblivion???
And they say pot doesn't make you paranoid...
Just keep in mind that Ritalin and practically all of the ADD drugs are amphetemines. In many cases, the difference between the drugs perscribed and speed bought on the street is minimal. This isn't meant to discourage people who need medication from using it, but as a caution into how powerful the drugs that they are taking are.
Who knows -- probably somewhere in the middle between ADHD and bipolar. The lows I've experienced haven't been that bad since starting 5-HTP, and it would fit the diagnostic criteria more for cyclothymia than bipolar.
I believe it is you and the original poster who are the asshats.
You can not tell me that there is no place for medication in the treatment of severe attention disorders or in the treatment of severe anger or depression. My father was borderline delusional paranoid while I was growing up, he believed that everyone was out to get him, that lead to some rage filled incidents that destroyed our house, cars, all manner of things. None of this was able to clear up until he began taking medication to clear up the chemical imbalance in his brain.
My wife can't concentrate on anything for more than a few minutes and is prone to mood swings that take her from being happy and fine to murderous rage in minutes. Wellbutrin helps her to be able to concentrate on the stuff she wants to do and gets rid of that pesky urge to murder people.
She doesn't care if they don't "cure" the problem, because the problem can't be cured. Her brain produces an incorrect amount of certain chemicals. End of story. Learning to "cope" or "deal with it" isn't going to make her brain produce the correct quantities of chemicals.
So, you, and the other asshat can take a long walk off of a short pier. I like my wife without the homicidal tendencies thank you very much.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
My personal experience is that the two may very well be interelated even though I've never bothered to research it. I'm diagnosed ADHD, but when I'm off medication for that, I do tend to exhibit a lot of the symptoms for manic depression. They're generally relatively mild, but I've had a few spells where it got REALLY bad. It just makes me wonder whether they're grouped in the same category of mental illnesses.
I know we are not suppose to make jokes about this topic but since I am ADHD sufferer myself I just can't help but say that I feel that ADHD with a hot cup of black coffee and a good mouse works wonders for my CS ratio ;)
This *IS* the sunniest part of Canada, sadly to say! It's about high 70's right now (farenheight), 23C, about average for June, but January - April are pretty brutal.
Maybe after (if) I get my degree, it'll allow travelling in other countries and easier access to a green card.
When I saw Schizo... in my quick reading of your statement, then ending of the word became ..phrenia...
Simple mistake.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
I drink bawls. The caffiene tends to help with my focus plus it's an excuse to get wired.
Not to knock the bloody-type diet as I haven't tried it, but a good naturopathic physician (http://www.naturopathic.org) could perhaps point you toward a treatment that works for you.
You can take a medical substance, but it's very important to try to balance your body/mind with other practices.
Try doing Yoga while you take your medicine, and following your advancement think in lower or leave your medicine.
Good Luck!
swain
Doesn't mean that much. Strattera (which I started two weeks ago, with much better results than Wellbutrin with Concerta) was originally conceived as an antidepressant, but it was such a lousy one they didn't bother with approval.
When I can't stop my fiddlin'
I just takes me Ritalin
I'm poppin' and sailin', man!
Your Name inspired me here to add further comments on the whole thing. . . I am now considered an xNxP, with an equal Introvert / Extrovert preference, very high intuitive preference, equal Thinking / Feeling preference, and a moderate Perceiving preference.
Prior to anything, my score was INTP, being a high introvert, high intuitive, low thinking, and low perceiving preference. When adding in the 5-HTP, it massively changed my Introverted preference to be more extroverted, and eventually I ended up in the middle about a year later. Not that one or the other is good or bad, it's just interesting. . . The Introverted preference was probably just due to more social anxiety.
There is a high correlation for ADD / ADHD / bipolar and people with high Intuitive and Perceiving preferences, and a higher Extroverted tendency for bipolars when they are on a high. Try googleizing something like "myers briggs adhd" and maybe some hits will show.....
The test at www.humanmetrics.com seems to be reasonably accurate compared to other tests I've taken with counsellors, but consistently scores more intuitive than reality. (Well, now I know how the tests work, they are kind of useless!!!)
OK, so is going postal the exception or the rule? I'm inclined to think that incomplete diagnosis and bad diagnosis is more common. I have ADD. I tried several medications. When they didn't work they were discontinued. Many people don't respond. More do. I have never had any problems with morality, thank you very much. Have you considered attacking the optometrist industry on the same points. I know many people who have stopped wearing glasses and simple tried harder to focus and it worked. Could be that people who wear glasses are weak willed and morally deficient. Maybe they could all just buckle down and try harder, then that big problem would be solved once and for all. Look through history at violent incidents and mass killings. I'll bet lots of them wore glasses!
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
I'm friends with a few teachers and one thing about them is they are all organized and studious *control freaks*. The reason why this is important is because I remember one of my teacher friends relating this story of being unable to get one student to sit straight in their chair. Not just that they were getting up and stuff, but that according to my friend this student must *sit straight*. I wonder if the problem is the so called 'ADD' student or the up tight teacher. I myself was a student that didn't sit straight in my seat and got bored easy. I happened to get through much of my schooling before the whole 'ADD' craze and so I was just the flighty student that got bored easy and distracted my classmates -- without a convenient excuse to put me on drugs to make their jobs easier. 'You people' (you know who you are), just don't understand 'us people' -- unfortunatly 'you people' tend to fall into the position of primary school teacher quite often. By now I'm so far into my advanced education whether or not I could have ever been diagnosed the 'illness' of 'ADD' (big air quotes here people) is a moot point. The point is that the school cirriculum is geared toward a personally type, ie, people who like to sit straight in their seats. Those of us that found that system awkward just struggled to pay attention through years of boring, pointless crap. *Now* we can be easily pigeon holed into a disease, which is all clinical psychology does. Notice psychology doesn't classify positive traits. It doesn't say 'this person is different, but that's okay'. Clinical psychology's paradigm is dysfunction. I'm willing to say the whole thing a load of hookum made up to make life easier for the neat and tidy, uncreative control freaks.
Tried this, and had an allergic reaction to it because of the coating on the pill (FD&C Red #40). Apparently a lot of people with ADHD are allergic to this dye - which is the origin of the old "ADHD is a food allergy" myth. Most cases of ADHD are not allergy related, but sometimes it is a contributing factor.
lol. "naturopath"? first of all, that's not a word. i think you mean "naturologist", but i've never heard of one before. you really mean vitamin salesman, right? that list of substances is incredible. and you add enzymes onto it?
do you know what happens when you add digestive enzymes to your food? your body stops producing them, until you ween yourself off the pointless enzyme suppliments. how do i know this? my dog had severe pancreitis(sp) after eating half a hamburger (dogs can't tolerate much fat). unless you have some sort of genetic disease or something that limits your enzyme production, there is absolutely no reason ingest more. if you have indigestion, try taking it w/ milk and/or not taking 40 pills at a time. maybe one of the coatings on a tablet doesn't agree w/ your stomach.
hump and get the digestive system back in order. Other than that, I've been taking a broad-spectrum digestive enzyme that helps with the nasty meals
uh, why don't you just not eat it, or just eat a little (if you're in a situation where that's all there is to eat)?
btw, why does everyone on /. think they're an expert on everything? are any of you doctors, or even nurses? ianad, but i do know that all this advice about suppliments is potenially harmfull.
have a problem? see a doctor, or two (for a second opinion). hell, see three. but don't take /. bs as good advice. hell, don't even listen to me. see someone who knows wtf they're talking about. not some nature-freak who's obsessed w/ getting people on "natural" substances. arsenic is natural. would you eat a handful of it?
Good to see the moderation system working so well. This is obviously the most intelligent post in this thread, AC or not, and it hovers at 0. Good job mods. Here is a hint for those of you with mod points: back your filter down a notch so you get all of the comments.
Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
I personally believe that ADHD or whatever you want to call it is the result of two factors (at least in my case):
1) Boredom and lack of challenge.
2) Lack of self-discipline
The self discipline comes with age, however if the first condition is not remidied the second continues to fester and may never properly develop.
I was diagnosed with hyperactivity in 1978.
I slept through almost all of my kindergarten class and the teacher decided that I should repeat it. My mother, knowing that I was definitely smart enough to pass kindergarten, decided to have me tested for learning disorders, psychological problems, Iq, etc.
The results came back that I was reading and doing math on a high school level and my IQ around 150. This in addition immense hyperactivity. Medication was recommended, but my mother was against it. She prefered to use diet (Feingold diet) to try to control my hyperactivity.
The public school I went to still declined to promote me to the first grade, regardless of my test scores, so my mother and father sent me to a private school.
The school I attended for 2 years was set up to have children "work at their own pace" without alot of "structure" that could inhibit them. In other words, they let us run free and provided us with a workbook that encapsulated the whole school year's worth of teaching. Needless to say, this was not the best environment for a super-hyper child.
After two years at private school I returned to a public magnet school. Again I took tests to determine my level of aptitude (because I had been in a private school) and again I tested exceptionally high. I entered the chronologically correct grade (third) and continued to progress chronologically through the grades.
The odd thing, to me, is that never in my young academic life had anyone ever done anything that would challenge me. The facts of my intelligence were plain to those around me. My ability to do the work given was never questioned. I even percieved things that others my age did not understand. The standardized tests I took each year showed 99 percentile in every category. And even thought I would altenately sleep and let my attention wander during class, when examintations were given I always passed with near perfect or perfect scores.
This continued until I reached the seventh grade. This year they were offering Algebra to certain students. I asked my math teacher if I could take Algebra, and she, knowing my aptitude requested that I be able to. I think, however, that the fact that I became a little too talkative in when I was bored kept me out of the class, because, even with the recomendation of my math teacher, I was denied.
Here's the kicker: after the selected students had taken the algebra course for half of a year, the entire grade was given the "algebra palcement test." There were 64 questions on the test. My score was a perfect 64 out of 64. The next best score was from one of the students who had been in the algebra class for half a year already. He scored slightly less than 50% correct. I took my test scores to the principal and asked to be admitted to the algrbra class. I was flatly refused. No reason was given even when I asked.
I would definitely say that was the turning point for me. I completely gave up. My distraction became a way of life for me (in school that is). The school responded by putting me in a class for people with learning disorders where, ironically, it was guaranteed that I would learn absolutely nothing.
The school also assigned me a psychiatrist who immediately gave me more tests and summarily handed me the application to the Mensa society and wondered if I could get into Intertel as well.
To me this was unbelievably fucked up. The school systems I had been in had no regard for my prowess or my intellectual needs, and regarded me as a disciplinary problem, but the psychiatrist they assigned to find out what was wrong with me figures I need to be i
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
good call..the problem isn't the child, it's the system they put the child in. there are schools that let kids learn what they want at their own pace. the educators only provide assistance while the children gather in random age groups to take on a new field of study. and they always come out academically ahead of mainstream educated students, while probably being much happier.
another suggestion i have for many with attention problems is to excersize for a half hour every other day. it balances body and mind, for me gave me much needed concentration and emotionally i'm much much happier.
and the diet is definitely important, i have seen studies done taking junk food and soda out of high schools and putting in salad bars and fruit juice and grades went up, office visits went down, etc.
You may have sleep apnea as the root cause. You may be medicating the symptoms and missing the root cause.
The guy's response to my comment was also quite civilized, I think it's pretty apparent that this isn't a flamewar here...
I don't have ADHD, nor would I willingly take any drug (medicinal or otherwise). However, I do know some things about it because I have children and had a teacher who considered any active child a candidate for ADHD diagnosis.
The VERY important thing to know about Ritalin and other psycho-tropic (mind) drugs: side effects of not taking your regular dose can include suicidal behavior and depression and other mental disorders -- not just a return of the originally diagnosed trouble. Often the original trouble is often worse after getting back off the medication.
For those who scoff, ADHD or ADD are real problems. They aren't as simple as distraction or being easily sidetracked. No matter how much effort an affected person puts into focusing, their attention drifts away.
I was taking one day at a time, but then several days got together and ambushed me. (from a Rhymes with Orange comic)
Um - I think I can confidently diagnose you of having an acute case of hypochondria.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
N.D. is a title (Naturopathic Doctor in Canada) -- a BSc is required, and then four years at a naturopathic college at @ $15,000 per year. (could be 5 years, but I can't remember at the moment) Visits are normally about $100 per 1/2 hour consultation.
It's very possible the body will stop producing certain enzymes once supplementation begins, I don't know the technical process and don't have the qualifications to explain all of it. I'm lactose intolerant, and taking milk causes major havoc on upper GI, not to mention gas and bloating -- lactase enzymes help greatly with this, but the best thing is of course to avoid milk. My personal experience suggests supplementing with digestive enzymes has assisted my lactose intolerance and made it bearable for moderate milk intake, but this will again vary greatly from person to person. I believe there is a difference between pancreatic enzymes and general-use digestive enzymes, but further research on this is probably in order. I have no real digestive upset from vitamins or medication -- most of them are gelatin capsules, very little irritation. (Other than the fatty acids, such as CLA, Omega-3, Vitamin E)
Yes, of course the best thing would be not to eat the food, but we are all human, and don't have unlimited willpower.
The problem with the system is there is no one person who knows everything about the full medical spectrum. A doctor will have knowledge on prescription, patented medication, whereas a naturopath specializes in medication that, most of the time, cannot be patented, and has less negative side-effects in general, but not always. The patent requirement for the conventional medical system is a great limitation, since research will often not be performed on non-patentable solutions due to limited return on investment.
Consider this scenario: someone sees a naturopath regarding a digestive problem, they will give them a solution to fix it, but it may also require prescription medication to resolve the issue, so the person goes on with the symptoms, and eventually develops an ulcer. Likewise, someone sees an M.D. for digestive problems, puts them on Prilosec (omeprazole), and they need to take it for the rest of their lives, and they just live with the food allergies that are the root of the problem, and potentially get esophagal cancer because the drug is merely masking the symptoms by reducing the acidity of the stomach.
This is where the knowledge gap resides. No one party knows how to fix the entire system, so it is chaos unless you can synthesize knowledge from both parties and come up with your own conclusion using both approaches.
See an M.D., see an N.D. -- no one perspective is completely correct.
You killing yourself with medication.
You have a hard time coping with life and so you appear to be using medication to help you deal with it.
Very unhealthy, and it means you've not forced yourself to learn how to cope with disappointment or stress.
You need to get fixed in your head that nothing can make you happy outside yourself. By corollary, only you can make yourself *UN*happy.
My advice is to drop all the medication and start over as a child might. When an 8 year old doesn't get the Yugioh cards, he is sad and will cry himself to sleep. When a 12 year old's friends laugh at her, she goes to pieces and cries.
But its part of growing up and learning that the disappointment and anger make you stronger.
Accept that it occurs, take deep breaths and keep plugging away.
Enjoy the small comforts of life, a sunny day, a child's laugh, the newest Linux kernal. And when shit happens, remember that if its not your fault, you couldn't help it. And be honest when it is your fault and strive to work harder.
If you've read this far, you'll feel anger that somehow I'm dismissing you. I'm not. Your brain probably makes it hard for you to have an adult outlook on life. Pisser. So you have to work twice as hard as everyone else to be an adult. But the journey, not the destination is the important part of life.
Enjoy the journey, even if you crash into a tree a few times along the way.
How have you coped with ADHD, and how have you found it affect your work performance? ... Do you think that your ADHD contributes to your abilities technically, or is it a hinderance?
;)
I am 24, and I have ADHD symptoms... but my doctor and I are unsure yet if it is actually AHDH (or some of the ADD variants) or if it is due to my sleep apnea (which i have, and I am being treated for) which apparently can cause attention deficit like symptoms (makes sense, your brain is tired). A previous doctor diagnosed it as ADHD, but that was before I went in for the sleep study and was diagnosed with sleep apnea
Honestly, i used to think I was retarded or something... I would struggle with things in school that others seemed to grasp so easily (I can relate to the other posters "in a fog" comment). I used to loathe going to school (I enjoyed the computer classes, some of the phys ed, and most social times). It was almost a Claustrophobic like sensation... I would be able to see what was going on outside (sun shining, etc) and then realize I was having to listen to someone drone on about things I would probably never pratically use. It got even worse when I got a computer, and would try to concentrate, but keep wandering back to thoughts of programming, etc.
On the other hand, I soak up info like a sponge when I study the things I want. Because of my interests in tech, I have been able to learn a great deal about a variety of subjects, and can learn new things really quickly (kind of reminds me of the way I've heard young kids learn... they move from topic to topic quickly, and are able to learn at a far greater rate than adults).
Which reminds me, I am having a helluva time studying for my Am Govt CLEP test... anyone want to take it for me
"You might find yourself with uncontrollable shaking, cold sweats, loss of balance, and a number of annoying side effects"
Hell, I have those reactions when I'm hung over.
Now its a reaction to medication too? Pisser.
I took medication for about 6 months before deciding to quit. The medication allowed me to concentrate and work much better, but with what I considered horrible side effects. They really changed my personality; it could feel my thought process slowing down, which prevented me from making snappy one-line comebacks or (more importantly) almost instantly grasping the point in class.
I stopped taking the medication, and began looking for my own ways to cope. And I found them.
I just finished a MA degree earlier this year using these techniques. But everybody is different; I've shared these techniques with my siblings and some help, some hurt. My brother doesn't take a walk, he takes time to doodle. My other brother can't use music, but uses the TV for the same effect.
Take medication if you need to, but don't feel like that is the best or only option. It wasn't for me. Your doctor cannot give you the best therapy, s/he can only give you ideas. Find what ADHD does to you specifically, and find specific remedies. If drugs work, don't hesitate to take them. If not, don't hesitate to drop them.
I don't get why some people are so adamant about *don't* take this!!! *Do* take this!!!
Give the self-righteous anti-speed anti-pharms hysteria a rest. Ritalin helps some people, not others. Herbal remedies help some people, not others. Lifestyle changes help some people, not others. Ultimately it comes down to what helps a particular individual, and what a particular individuals wishes are.
I personally think that most "natural" remedies are overpriced placebos at best and random self-medication at worst. Still, an individual has the right to do evaluate their own information and make their own decisons.
Anybody who simultaneously thinks pot should be legal and yet Ritalin is some kind of demon drug that shouldn't even be prescribed to people who *want* *it* is a hypocrite.
Munchausen By Proxy
The parent post is simply over-rated.
A lawyer & digital forensics examiner. Also an expert on open source software (OSS).
I also remember the first time I could participate in a meeting- I was surfing the conversation, rather than drowning in it. Now that I know what it feels like, I often can replicate this state of flow (great book by Csikszentmihalyi...) without Ritalin. But I'd never been able to do so before being diagnosed at 25 with ADD.
The analogy I use is that my brain without Ritalin used to be a Windows box: after some time I'd always have to reboot. When I was in elementary school through high school, being able to study for only 1/2-1 hour at a time was not a problem. But in college it annoyed my study-partners that I always had to pause in the middle of deriving some important equation. Not that I wanted to pause, but my brain's system resources were all gummed up: time for a reboot. A few points for the thread:
my apartment looks like it needs to be bulldozed. Cleaning it up seems useless because the next time I actually NOTICE, it will look the same. When I do get motivated enough to do it, it is like punishment - EVERY speck of dust and streak MUST be completely eradicated and it takes HOURS on end.
I've always tested high IQ but couldn't muster a decent GPA.
my boss tells me I am smarter than the whole office and her combined but I can't seem to ever finish a project (to her satisfaction, at least, there are some PHB issues here, too =)
I've always been told: "If you would just apply yourself...." HELLO, I'm not deodorant, maybe there's a basic REASON you keep telling me this and many other things.
The most telling thing for me was reading that it takes much MORE effort for an ADD or ADHD person to get something they can't hyperfocus on done. Wow, maybe I wasn't just some damaged, lazy human! Maybe there was a strategy that would help overall!
I am amazed at how much easier it is to focus/unfocus and actually accomplish things with methylphenidate (generic of Ritalin). I would like to try a few other of the common drugs and see what works best but for now it has been a revalation - at least I have a basic answer now for many previously inexplicable problems....
Exercise is enormously helpful too - but it took the brain chemistry adjustment to have the energy and ability to perform it consistently.
I loved the post about Age-related AD and "oh, look, there's string...." Not because they are so terribly funny, in general, but because they are so funny to ME - that IS my brain in action and part of why everyday life can be so exhausting. Just because its an anomoly that benefits from drug treatment, doesn't mean it can't be funny.
This is probably not exact but Mel Brooks said something like this (imagine a sanitary sewer with the manhole cover missing): "Tragedy is me falling down a sewer and dying. Comedy is you falling down a sewer and dying."
Laughing at the fact I can't remember if that bottle of medicine is sitting in front of me right now because I need to take one or because I already have....
Randal
Some people with ADHD, autism, schizophrenia, depression or other "psychiatric" disorders have a condition called pyroluria.
Pyroluria is a metabolic problem in wich the body produces excess pyroles. Those bind with vitamin B6 and zinc and are then excreted in the urine. The result is a deficiency of vitamin B6 and zinc, causing mental and other symptoms.
My psychologist had never heard of it. I fold him i felt better when i used zinc and magnesium and vitamins. My psychologist thougt i had an obsession for vitamins and sent me to a doctor because i had complained about hypoglycemia and feeling irritated in my head.
The doctor said there was nothing wrong with me. When i asked him about the possibility of pyroluria the doctor told me there was no illness involving zinc, and he didn't seem to know about pyroluria. We looked at a list of symptoms caused by pyroluria i had downloaded from the internet and i didn't have much of the symptoms on that list, so we concluded i didn't have it.
Three weeks ago i deciced to have my urine checked anyway (at my own cost). And i had it in the urine. Now i use vitamin B6, zinc, manganese and magnesium and it seems the stress and irritation i felt for years is gone.
Working with ADHD, OCD, and Tourette's Syndrome.
My father has it, Aunt, grandmother, mother, cousin and I. conversations are never dull as they are constantly rolling and changing. At times they get repetative as you lose track for a bit.
I've never been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD but I'm pretty sure I got it. I take no drugs for it, have lots of coffee and sugar all day and live a rather normal life working IT. Yes the coffee makes me wired, but that also means I can do more and work longer. Sure going to sleep at nights can be rough at times but heck, more time to play video games.
the biggest problem I find is learning. I have about $6,000 worth of computer related programming and other tech books. I have read them all through, tried their examples, but damned if I remember what I just read one page ago. I can read and understand all the programming code put in front of me but could only dream of actually starting a program from scratch. Classroom learning is even worse. In high school I was in trouble more than anything because I'd get bored quickly.
But there are some amazing benefits of ADHD that "normal" people cannot even begin to comprehend. We're Jacks of all trades. We can multitask like there's no tomorrow. Filing, counting, redundant tasks? forget that crap, give the boring stuff to the "normal" people. We live for adventure and often times live life at each moment.
We're not outcasts, we're not diseased, nor really have anything wrong with us. We just have brains that vary a bit in the structure and way information is processed. We got an infallible source of energy and can rarely sit still for longer than 5 minutes, well unless we're watching good anime or playing games, then we can sit still for days on end. Of course we make sucky writers, and often scatter our thoughts across the pages. oooh shiny thing. eh what oh yeah..
well anyway, we're just different. Since modern medicine can't understand us, (or doesn't want to) they classify it as a disease and give us drugs to make us just like every other stiff in the country. heck there's good money in marking us as diseased and selling drugs to fix our "problem" as it may be.
There are ways of coping with what is known as ADHD. Work in IT being one of the most popular. Meditation works wonders, seriously. I took up Karate a few years back and it's results have been incredible. It's not instant results, but it works. Drugs give us a crutch. To really solve the issue we need to study ourselves. ADHD requires a huge amount of self criticism and refinement. Everyday I see my actions, and then say, "hey what the hell am I doing?" I then work on trying to fix the action/reaction. By governing my own behaviors I become a better person. I learn to control and harness my wonderful gift of ADHD to do things that improve my life. If I just took the easy road out with Ritalin or one of the many other drugs I'd not be who I am today. As once you stop taking the drugs you are essentially flooded with the emotions and thoughts they have repressed for so long. then you need different ones to control these new feelings and so on. By treating it as a disease you only make it worse. Think of it as a gift, nurture and learn to live with it.
This helps with depression as well. constantly monitoring yourself and actions is in itself a daunting task but it builds up wonderful mental discipline. So you can catch yourself falling into a depressed state and be like "whoa, I'm getting depressed and hate life, I gotta pull myself out, time for some pr0n(sic)."
Well being at work, Iâ(TM)ve had less time to really put into writing this, and even les time to proof and edit. Plus writing is one of those things I still need to work on. Iâ(TM)m far from perfect. But this being let me try to summarize:
Meditation: itâ(TM)s good for your mind and body. Helps you focus and concentrate no matter what religion you are.
Fitness: Karate, gym or whatever. Puts that excess energy to use. Builds focus and sharpens mind. Great to help you get sleep.
S
Drugs are not the only way to get serotonin. Try stimulating activities and socializing.
This will get your brain to produce more serotonin, naturally, and improve your mood.
Some background, I guess, followed by my story with depression, anxiety, and drug abuse.
Was a slacker in high school, never did assignments or homework, but aced standardized testing and got by.. would stay home weeks at a time from school creating webpages and programming an OSS mail & news client of mine. Got away with it fine (schools like smart kids), but my parents said my 'truancy' was caused by depression, and have said I've been depressed since 14 or 15 when I got my computer. Bullocks, pardon my proper English. Had a very few friends at high school, but was quite comfortable with them and spent lots of time on Usenet, Slashdot, programming, building my webpages, webring.org, the whole shebang.
Enter junior year of high school -- marijuana. Found out that it wasn't as bad as the folks had said, and I even enjoyed it. It became a more common activity, until it was daily. Was a bit shy around some of my new friends but generally OK. Enter <trying real life events here> coinciding with end of high school and semester off. Drug usage turned to full fledged drug abuse, had severe anxiety and was not dealing well at all with things. By this time, I had dug myself into one hell of a hole.
Few months later, decide I want to quit pot, so I go to my family. My mother suggests a detox for marijuana, so I went along with it (even tho I should have known there was no detox for pot), went to the hospital, long story short, they I was in an acute condition, no pot detox exists, so they put me in the psych ward. Diagnosis: "Depression & marijuana abuse". Well, now, I would say I wasn't depressed, but the anxiety was there. They don't really diagnose social anxiety at this place, and depression is a generic diagnosis. Whatever.. so they got me on Paxil, working up from 20 to 50 mg, which I thought would serve well. Said it'd take 6 weeks to kick in full. Every week I felt it a bit more and hoped for it to be better and my problems will be solved or for life to be be easier. I'll tell you I was going crazy at that place, mostly to get OUT.
Well, my time came, 28 days later I had put on 40 pounds, and was discharged with an outpatient plan and RXes for Paxil (depression & anxiety), Buspar (anxiety), Zyprexa (paranoia -- maybe caused by pot they say). For months after I was just hoping for the medication to kick in harder and do it for me. Real stupid, to trust your life to a drug instead of yourself. I neglected to do anything I really wanted and opted for laziness and not changing my lifestyle -- still endless hours online without much work, and marijuana usage. Went in with one addiction, came out with pot, cigs, and three pharms, at least one of which is addicting, and in worse shape. I'll tell you, I was not depressed until I was committed to a mental hospital. The stigma, the shame, the betrayal. Whatever, it was bad. I basically lost interest in everything and fell into a deep depression. This was early 2002. From March 2002 to June 2003 I have spend my days chain smoking on the Internet in severe depression. Prior to the hospitalization, I had treated my misery with drugs and food. Now, I was treating it with self-destructive behavior and cigarettes.
I've been in a deep depression and had moderate use of illicit drugs and constant use of legal and pharmeceutical drugs for well over the past year, and I was an emotionless, severely depressed, drugged up zombie. I first quit illicit drugs cold turkey, followed quickly by quitting cold turkey my heavy dose of an SSRI, anti-anxiety agents, and an anti-psychotic that was prescribed in haste, using a regime
-DAVEO
just reading through (not even 1/3) of the replies this has spawned .... I had to take an extra adderall myself !!!!!!
ALL PEOPLE are NoT THE SAME == end of line.
I've personally been diagnosed with ADHD ( actually prior to anything being offered as a option for treatment ) and that fact alone lead me from 1st grade (keep in mind this was hidden from me by my own parents) to non-college-grad .... and nothing really accomplished -- just dead end jobs; mainly due to lack of commitment ( but also lack of employment oppurtunities in a tourist town .. where most jobs are airbrushing t-shirts, selling bongs @ the smoke shop, etc, etc ).
When I was actually able to seek help outside of parental guidance (e.g. > 18yrs of age) ... Doctors treated me as depressed .... and therefore I was given an endless amount of SSRI's / TCA's and the wide varieties of Benzodiazapines to complement the prior ....
All of those -----> greater depression because this of course was not the true root of the problem .....
Furthermore; all this lead to other "self medicating techniques" which was making everything entirely worse (although my social life was at a peak) ... and further depression followed.....
One Day (not until the age of 23 though) ... I was lucky enough to have changed to another family physician ... and after long drawn out conversations ... (not many Doctors will do this at all -- most end up with the 1.2.3 Nurse .. Dr. grabs at "areas" ... Nurse walks back in with a Script) ... but this guy actually listened to me ... Not neccessarily about my problems or my "whining" ... but ME ..... and decided ... I wasn't really depressed afterall .....
He luckily decided to go - "left field" and try a "Ritilan" approach .... this actually worked (kinda) ..... I won't go into the Ritilan Rollercoaster ride but ..... anyways; since this threads probably grown about 2 more pages since I first started typing (3 min ago) ..... I finally had the privalage of trying an "Adderall" approach.
Guess what; no more "depression" (ADD) ... i've actually persued my original goals in software development ... and learned that the self-medicating techniques were actually worsening the problem (although; this was subconciously known -- I did it anyway -- didn't care) .... and my life is finally starting to get on track ....
The only downside to any of it ... Is I found out the people I once called friends were never "friends" in the first place .... but that's to common in the "drug culture" to even worry about ... and I'm thinking that it has more to do with -- I don't wanna sit around all day, do nothing, and go nowhere !! ....
That's me though ..... hence; Not all people are the same ...... end of line!
btw ... this preview button shows no tab indentions ... and this wasn't made to look like one run-on sentence .... which means I'm probably going to get flamed for having a "run-on thought" .... which is comparable to my condition ... oh well; have fun with it!!!!
I'm very likely ADD myself and my research has uncovered all sorts of interesting information. Primarily:
- There are something like 6 different types of ADD
- The most common is the hyperactive one.
- The next most common is the primary inattentive variety. The intelligent Space Cadet.
- Proper clinical diagnoses should be backed up by QEEG (Quantitative EEG) or SPECT scans.
- Many tobacco users are self-medicating for ADD because Nicotine fits in acetylcholine receptors and the acetylcholine axis is one of the primary drivers of attention.
- There are many ways to treat ADD. Some methods treat ADD by increasing excercise, supplements, biofeedback, Tomatis therapy, medication etc.
- Most MDs treat it by throwing Ritalin at it, which I believe is a little bit like feeding ether into a car with a bad carburator.
- More advanced than Ritalin is Adderal, but only by dint of its longer lasting action.
- More advanced than Adderall is probably Modafinil, although it hasn't been approved for adults, only children. But I know guys who swear by Modafinil. More info at modafinil.org. Modafinil is a Class IV Controlled substance.
- Personally I believe that the best way to treat any problem is to fix it at the source. What is it that your brain is lacking that keeps the correct areas of the brain from lighting up? I would address excercise and nutrition first. Both Type 1 and Type 2 ADD patients seem to respond well to increased dopamine. A building block for dopamine is L-tyrsosine (which also increases the levels of another mild neurotrasmitter phenylethanalomine)
- Next I would look at substances that give you more of what you should have. After extensive research it became apparent (to me at least) that I was type 2 inattentive. After more research I came to the conclusion that increasing acetylcholine levels was probably the best route to try.
- There are a number substances that increase acetylcholine levels in the brain. One that I'm trying is called Centrophenoxine (Lucidril). Its a combination of DMAE (des-methyl-choline) and paarachlorophenoxyacetic acid which allows the DMAE to easily cross the blood-brain barrier.
- Other add-ons to my program might be: a. Piracetam which potentiates Centrophenoxine and vice versa. b. Deprenyl Citrate.
Excellent links to ADD descriptions are:Biochemist James South's Excellent Overview
Description of excess theta waves with ADD using QEEG
Dr. Amen's SPECT imaging site Brainplace.com This site has brain SPECT images of various types of ADD -- check the Atlas
Good luck.
...the feeble minded post AP on Slashdot.
If you liked licking my balls, add me to your foes list!
Wrong. I am ADD and have been successfully using the generic version (made by Barr Pharmaceuticals, I believe) for more than two years now.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
Cliff, just to let you know I am not a doctor, nor do I pretend to offer medical advice. I do know a little about this subject becauswe I've been living with it for a looonnngg time. When I was a kid I was diagnosed with it (it was called "minimal brain damadge" in the '50s before it became "hyperactivity" and the "hyperactivity disorder" and then ....., you get the picture). Mom was smart, she didn't tell me a word and made me grow up mormally. I was rediagnosed in the '90s (after I had graduated highschool with honors, done the honors and IQ test groups bit, graduated my associates, two bachelors, and masters with honors a doctor finally got around to telling me how "handicapped" I was).
You'll hear from two groups, the medicators and the naysayers.
The naysayers will poo-poo the reality you're living with. Ignore them politely, you're the one that has to live with it, not them. Most of them are either so "openminded" their brains have dripped out or so "closeminded" that if granite ever become a precious commodity they'll be rich, neither type will ever change their mind. A few are in the middle and MAY one day be persuaded but it really isn't worth your effort.
The medicators will push their favorite pill (which may have worked VERY WELL in their personal experience). Remember your body and metabolism are unique to you, so IF you choose to go the medication route pleae work closely with an experienced doctor (a REAL one) and find the best one for you, follow his instruction TO THE LETTER (these do affect YOUR BRAIN after all).
The reality is that both medication and habit modification will probably be worth it to you, and after all these years you've probably been practicing some of these without knowing about it (i.e. dayrunners, PDAs, PIMS, etc).
I had to learn to live without the drugs, I honestly can't say if they would have helped because I never fealt a need for them. I have learned a lot on personal orginization. In fact, I occasionally teach classes on it in my company (ain't THAT ironic).
As far as technical skills and ADHD. I don't know if they're related but I've always been able to track code "in my head", design circuits, and "intuitively" understand systems. I'm one of the 70's geeks that actually built their own computer (pre-commodore/apple days). I got the plans and some parts from a HAM Radio magazine my Dad took. It came with no memory, no OS (wrote my own) and the instructions were wrong. I finally got "frankenbox" as my dad called it working good enough to track his CQs.
I strongly suggest a series of books by a guy named Thom Hartmann, you should find them on BAMM or AMAZON.
Good luck, listen with wisdom and take all with a grain of salt, remember that when someone else tells you what you MUST or MUST not do about ADD it's your life, not theirs. And as far as that life goes, enjoy it.
You'll hear from the ones that declare ADHD
It doesn't matter what you wrap your emotions around, Reality is a brick wall specifically designed to scramble eggs
I know this is too late to get modded up, but I doubt this has been discussed yet.
I believe ADHD is mostly a disorder that can be caused by multiple reasons. Much like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, where a vast number of other undiagnosed disorders are grouped into a more generic, more symptom-based category.
Sleep disorders can easily show symptoms of ADHD, and is greatly under-diagnosed. And Caffeine has a profound effect on people with poor sleep. Much more than the sleep research community once thought. And it's more than just a stimulant.
Fighting the "sleep pressure", can cause someone to be very agitated and unable to concentrate.
Remember also, quantiy of sleep is NOT the same as quality of sleep. And being sleep-deprived doesn't mean you can fall asleep easily during normal daily activity. We have mechanisms to keep us awake even though we are sleepy.
I'm not saying this is the case in your wife's case, but just a generality. And one that maybe often gets overlooked.
Oscar
BTW, look for the latest sleep disorder drug to be used in ADHD.
Provigil, also known as Modafinil, is for narcoleptics to keep them awake without having the same effect as a stimulant. It's more like being alert. You can fall asleep on it if you want.
I said 90% are false, not 100%.
That means not all people are diagnosed with it just to make money, some ( read SOME, few, little ) are legit. However MOST ( not ALL ) are not correctly diagnosed.
And dont swing around 'education' unless you know who you are talking too personally. I know a hell of a lot more about this sort of thing ( both sides of the fence, legit and fraud ) then the average person.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"Try doing a complex mathematical proof with somebody standing behind you banging cymbals and blowing a trumpet for hours on end while an obnoxious talk radio station is blaring in your ear and see how well you concentrate. That's what it's like." Wow. What an excellant analogy!
Because I believe it to be a large contributor to some of my more differentiating characteristics. Yes, I have tremendous troubles staying on task. Unless there is a moderating influence around, like when you're talking to someone else who keeps you on track, I don't even try. Sometimes I miss deadlines. Others I completely forget that a task exists (I figure it must not have been too important if I forgot it, so I don't try to track them... call it my means of time management). I constantly go to the store for things and come back with other things and not the thing I wanted and have to go back again. All of these and many more present real difficulties.
But, on the flipside, I have a unique (to the degree that I've never met an equal at it) ability to break free of paradigms in my thinking. This manifests itself in an extremely high degree of creativity and ability to design solutions that others haven't thought of (frequently to problems that they didn't recognize either). Because I can't think through large problems in a methodical way very easily, I've learned to trust my instincts and think with my intuition. Oddly enough I come up with the right answers most of the time though proving them or explaining them can be nearly impossible as I have to translate the "feelings" I think with to language. Some have told me that they think I'm just thinking in a traditional way subconsciously, but I don't think so. I think that is shown by the fact that I could go into a math test in college completely cold (never read the section in the book) and derive the theorems needed to find the solution on the fly. I think what I do is more of a massively parallel search for an answer with a pattern matching engine that works at levels I don't understand. In any case, though I can't be tested easily in traditional ways because my approaches to problem solving are so radical, and on some traditional tests that depend on narrow criteria have scored in the mildly mentally retarded range, some that studied me determined my IQ to be roughly equivalent to that of someone with normal thought patterns in the 180-220 range. But once again, the comparison just doesn't hold because my methods of arriving at solutions can escape the paradigms that someone with more normal thought patterns can't escape no matter what their IQ. They have to think their way through paradigm boundaries that I just leap over.
So, please, bring on the ADHD. Go with it, don't cope with it. Structure your life to accomodate it. In particularly bad times, I had so much trouble making decisions that I couldn't decide what to wear, so I replaced all of my clothing with several copies of the same outfit. Problem solved. The brain fog thing is also very nasty. There have been times that I was afraid of getting out of bed because my capabilities were so lowered that I was definitely a danger to myself. There have been far more when I really shouldn't have been driving due to far lowered reaction time as I was trying to think my way through problems (there is a part of my thinking that is uneffected by the fog that I can leverage to replace the missing, instinct based, fast analysis functions, but its slower).
Put another way, what is genius? Its obviously abnormal. Do you think it comes without side effects in a system as complex as the human brain? Do you really think we know enough to treat some undesirable side effects without getting rid of some of the desirable ones?
You make a good point. If I could work in an unstructured environment doing what I was really interested in, my hyperfocus would kick in and I would do really well. Unfortunately some us have to work for people that equate being at a desk at exactly 8 am with productivity, give no credit for work done after 4:30 pm, and are trying to eliminate any task that is not administrative of nature.
How do they diagnose ADHD? I would probably have been diagnosed ADHD or ADD growing up if it had been common, they might have put me on drugs and they would have totally messed me up and made it impossible for me to succeed in life. I will not take any drug for anything that cannot be proven by strict scientific means (such as a biochemical test of my brain that shows I'm missing something). Psychological tests are no good for this, for anything that can be found by psychological test only a good dose of therapy should suffice.
A new science now being taught in medical schools is already being utilized to get children and adults off of the Class II drugs used (and so readily prescribed )to treat ADD & ADHD. Harper's Biochemistry Textbook for new medical students, contains (2) chapters on tne science of glyconutritionals. The new powerful electron microscopes have allowed scientists to discover how the cells of the body communicate with each other, and why sometimes there is no communication which can lead to autoimmune diseaes with the immune system attacking its own body. Healthy cells have a glycoprotein coating on them consisting of (8) essential biological sugars that form a type of alphabet and language allowing the transfer of millions of bits of information to be transferred depending on the arrangement or permutations of the (8)monosaccharides on each of the thousands of antenna-like hairs on each cell. So what? Now we discover that in the most technologically advanced society in the world, we only get (2) to (3) of these essential sugars in our diets, no matter what particular diet you follow. Put that on top of the well known fact that we no longer get the vitamins and minerals from our food needed to maintain a healthy body and it is easy to see why we have an explosion of deadly diseases and an increase of ADD and ADHD. The cells are getting computer error messages when they try to communicate and many times would not be able to find the resources requested even if the message was finally transmitted from one cell to the other one. Enough of the bad news and on to the good news relative to this posting. As noted by articles in Scientific Magazine in July 2002-"Sweet Medicine" ,New Scientist magazine October 26 2002- "Sweetness and Might(the awesome power of the glycome), and MIT's Technology Review Magazine in Feb. 2003-"Ten Emerging Technologies",the secret to cell to cell communication is becoming known worldwide .
ADD and ADHD are only a couple of medical problems being reversed by using these powerful yet natural therapies. Parkinsons,Multiple sclerosis, MD,diabetes, and cancer patients are seeing incredible results utilizing this new science. The results achieved by people turning to glycobiology for answers to their health problems can be found at www.glyco.com/hope. Detailed information on the science can be found at www.glycoscience.com. Information on the only company with a product with a patent that contains all (8) of the biological sugars can be found at www.mannapages.com/first.
Many "glyco-aware"schools have implemented a regimen of glyconutritionals (along with a right brain teaching curriculum -DUH!)and achieved astounding results. (Another story for another time- As is the stampede by the drug companies to try to synthesize the natural sugars so they can profit on this new discovery.)
The results speak loudly. Investigate what the doctors are not telling you and demand answers. Glyconutritionals do not interact with other drugs, and have been shown to be effective in studies when integrated with chemotherapy and radiation if the doctor insists on maintaining the poison and burn regimen.
As a side note, ADD/ADHD people normally have higher IQs, hear and think at 400-450 words per minute vs. 200 wpm for "normal" persons, and can think on (3-4) channels at the same time vs.(1) channel for the "normal" person. Sounds like "normal" people are -multiple thought impaired. Just a thought.
Ritalin is not your friend.
You can run but you can't hide, except, apparently, along the Afghan-Pakistani border.
This seems an interesting idea to me. Gluceogenesis in the liver is worse if there is B6 deficiency. B6 deficiency can be caused by pyroluria. Here is my post in this story about pyroluria.
90% of the people who say this DO NOT have ADHD and will never understand how Ritalin works for ADHDers.
Just because the drug works, doesn't mean it's healthy. Hell, heroin calms people down, but I wouldn't go around recommending it as a good cure for hyperactivity.
I myself noticed a massive difference in my state of mind within two days of taking a zinc/magnesium pill
You might feel even better if you also take vitamin B6, preferably in the form of p5p. Dosage: maybe 50mg.
Also see my post about pyroluria
ADHD is not just hyperactivity. Research the effects of Ritalin on ADHD'ers and you'll see why it's used.
Dolemite
_______________________
Save the World! Use a Quote!
i've found it helps greatly to reflect upon your processes, consider your inputs, and be highly aware of your outputs.
then apply each to each.
limit distractions.
practice focus.
this applies in many arenas.
Here's another helpfull solution to this problem, which I wished I would have realized earlier. Many schools will let you transfer in classes like that, but they often won't transfer the grade, just the credit. This can be used to your advantage. For example, your like me and go college during the year then move to the big city each summer to get a job. It would be very smart to take one crappy humanities class at the comunity college during the summer and then transfer it in. Because the class can't have hurt your GPA, there is less stress as you only need to worry about passing. Plus you won't have other classes competing for time (I don't know about you but working seemed like a vacation to me compared to the crazy amount of time I spent doing school work). And last, you can probably find a teacher that is easier or more interesting than that offered at your school (Engineering schools don't always have the best humanities departments).
Under your description, I would be ADD as well which is quite plausible. I find it very difficult if not annoying to try and focus on one thing. I need to multitask. Sure my performance on each task drops slightly as more tasks are added, but at the same time, I'm able to do all of them for a longer period of time, as opposed to doing them individually. Furthermore, I believe what the parent post says about gifted children is very VERY true. And that most of the ADD people I know are gifted in some respect. And instead of popping pills, they need to learn not only more effective personal learning skills that are more suitable to themselves but also they need to learn how they think. How one learns is a subject that is rarely covered in school. I think that if people better understood how and at what speed they learn, a lot of people wouldn't need meds. The same goes for the workplace. Some people need to do multiple things simultaneosly, and if they cannot they get bored with everything and do something that amuses them. Sounds a bit like ADD doesn't it. Overall drugs are an easy way out, instead of understanding their personal situation, doctors would rather cover up difficulties with drugs, and be done with it. Whereas courses teaching 'problem' people how to use thier brain could be far better..
I believe I speak for the rest of us, when I say,"Huh?"
You can run but you can't hide, except, apparently, along the Afghan-Pakistani border.
...and I took the California route. I found out that in TCM(Traditional Chinese Medicine), ADHD is considered a 'skin' disorder. The skin meridian is something that runs along the back of your shoulders and is the energy that feeds the largest organ in your body, your skin.
Learing this, I went to see an 'alternative' doctor, who prescribed the following things: Stop taking drugs. Stop eating anything with White or even Cane sugar in it. Get excersize where your breathing and heart rate increase for a half hour at least three times a week. He also told me to quit milk for my digestive disorder... he put me on some cleansing herbs like Goldenseal and Intestinal Probiotics(The good bacteria that's supposed to be in your intestines that all the meat with antibiotics in it kills)...
Well, the first three weeks were some really rough weeks, not having my drugs(I was taking AD meds that curbed my very mild ADHD - 150 mg of Effexor and 90 mg of Remeron for depression and sleep problems) and detoxing from all the toxins in the prescription drug industry... I started feeling better and better, and four weeks into my treatment I was feeling better than I'd felt in my entire life. Not only have I avoided sugar and dairy for a year, now, I have lost weight, felt better, no more depression or ADHD, and some of the best sleep I've ever had... and I never did manage to excersize as regularly as the doctor ordered.
Hope that helps for my experience with 'alternative' medicines.
Now that I read it over, it's worse than technical jargon!!! It was in reply to a post made by "mister-entp"= 67992&cid=62317 71
http://slashdot.org/comments.plsid
This is kind of getting off-topic, but Myers-Briggs or the MBTI is a method of testing people's psychological preferences, mostly used by career counsellors and psychologists. It helps define basic personality characteristics of a person, and can often be used to find out how well people will work in a team together or interact.
"There is a high correlation for ADD / ADHD / bipolar and people with high Intuitive and Perceiving preferences, and a higher Extroverted tendency for bipolars when they are on a high."
Thanks for the response - I have always been incredibly interested in the matching of meyers briggs (they are mother/daughter btw) test results with various psychological analysis and medications -especially as they relate to ADD. For those not familiar with it, check out http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory
E - strong Extrovert score over Introvert
N - strong iNtuitive score over Sensing
T - mild Thinking score over Feeling
P - super strong Perceiving score over Judging
The second time that I took the test the counselor said that he had never seen someone score zero points in the Judging preference and all the points in the Perceiving preference. My first 2 times taking the test showed much lower E and T scores. I attribute the increase in those areas to maturing and generally growing up. I'm in my 30's now. Has anyone out there seen any formal studies on personality types and ADD? I'm sure many folks with adult ADD have wondered, do I have a disorder or merely high Intuitive and Perceiving preferences? Either way, it certainly doesn't help one feel better to have NP preferences labelled a syndrome. One could easily come up with syndrome names for SJ's too: BBS - Brutally Boring Syndrome or CDS - Creativity Defecit Syndrome.
Taking ritalin (long time ago) and dexedrine (when I get around to it) push my P score alot farther down so that the J can at least come into view. I'd really like to try adderall or concerta or strattera. I was formally diagnosed with adult ADD nearly 15 years ago. It's been a difficult road to navigate. Sometimes it feels great and sometimes it feels hopeless. Life is not a race, it's a roller coaster - either going up or going down, but never flat!
The biggest problem that I have is with remembering to take the fsking pills again and again and again and again and aaaaaahhhh! I wish that I could enable the medication via a cronjob so that I wouldn't forget when I was at work.
Say, speaking of the tests, have you ever done the DISC test? I did that one about 9 years ago and found it helpful too - although similar to the MB tests.
I live in Canada now and it's no sun haven. After living in the SF bay area, it's hard to live here. Sunnier climates sure help though. I hate having to worry about clothing, rain, etc.
I wanted to post this before it left my brain. . . Will reply to the rest later on tonight....
t ra cts/poster_j.htm
Check out this article:
http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/stanley/3rdbipconf/Abs
"Personality Differences Between Bipolar and Unipolar Patients
Results: Using MBTI continuum scores, bipolar patients were significantly more extroverted, intuitive, and perceiving, and less introverted, sensing and judging than were unipolar patients."
Very cool reading.
I dont think you have the right to force a child on medication the child doesnt want. You dont understand the side effects, if there werent any side effects they'd be over the counter and everyone would be taking them.
The children are who I'm most worried about, people like you who want to force kids on pills and medicate their disorders, this is a kid, the kid didnt choose this, you did.
Why dont you ask your kid if they WANT to be on ritalin?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
this applies to anything that's "politically correct"
I've been saying for years that the whole idea that someone can be racist is in itself racist. It makes sense doesn't it? The only reason calling someone black would be bad is if being black somehow made you inferior.
Same with this, if you've got a short attention span, you've got a short attention span. Being treated as though this is a "disease" simply labels the person who isn't "normal" as a freak. I blame America for most, if not all of this reactionist political correctness.
I am in a gifted grade nine class right now, and let me tell you, i have read over the symtoms of ADHD and most of us have some if not all of the symptoms. None of us concentrate, half cant sit still, yet all of us kick our hard stuying "normal" peers asses on all tests. The most normal, and if i may say slowest in our classes are those who have been put onto the meds.
I dont think that the meds are a good idea for in school because teachers should simply learn to work around the inabilities of their kids. People work around the fact that johnny cannot deal with stresses in school all the time, why not deal with the fact that james cannot sit his freaking ass down and listen for half an hour.
Another thing is that io start projects and never keep up on them (See blog below). I get bored very easily and dont keep to a project for more than a couple hours at a time at most, and even then ui only usually du 15 minute frenzies of work.
Tragek
Cliff, I am ADD and I coach ADD'ers. In January the FDA approved Strattera a non-stimulant med that is not a schedule 2 drug like ritalin. I was taking 52mg of Concerta (ritalin with a great time release mechanism) 2 times a day. Now I take 2 40mg tabs of Strattera every morning and I never "roll off" my meds. Strattera builds up in the system over time and there is no "roll off". To learn about Strattera, go to http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/ADD/Site/s tory_strattera.htm . If you want to take advantage of a free coaching session, send me a reply.
John R. Spencer ADDed Potential Coaching (970) 689-7476 john_r_spencer@msn.com www.mullaneyvision.net/added
This is not the case. Ritalin wears off very quickly and does not build up like other drugs like anti-depressants of meds for bi-polar disorder. Stopping Ritalin just allows the ADD to show up with no other side effects.
John R. Spencer ADDed Potential Coaching (970) 689-7476 john_r_spencer@msn.com www.mullaneyvision.net/added
Cliff, Here is a list of books I recommend on ADD. The one most relevant to your original question of working with ADD is the first title. ADDed Potential Coaching www.mullaneyvision.net/added Adult ADD Book List April 28, 2003 Author Weiss, Lynn. Title ADD on the job : making your ADD work for you / Lynn Weiss. Publisher Dallas, Tex. : Taylor Pub. Co., c1996. Author Weiss, Lynn. Title Attention deficit disorder in adults / Lynn Weiss ; foreword by Kenneth A. Bonnet. Publisher Dallas, TX : Taylor Pub., 1997. Author Weiss, Lynn. Title A.D.D. and success / Lynn Weiss. Publisher Dallas, Tex. : Taylor Pub., c1998. Author Weiss, Lynn. Title The attention deficit disorder in adults workbook / Lynn Weiss. Publisher Dallas, Tex. : Taylor Pub. Co., c1994. Author Hallowell, Edward M. Title Driven to distraction : recognizing and coping with attention deficit disorder from childhood through adulthood / Edward M. Hallowell & John J. Ratey. Publisher New York : Simon & Schuster, 1995. Author Hallowell, Edward M. Title Answers to distraction / Edward M. Hallowell and John J. Ratey. Publisher New York : Bantam Books, 1996, c1994. Author Kelly, Kate. Title The ADDed dimension : everyday advice for adults with ADD / Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo ; with Steve Ledingham. Publisher New York : Scribner, 1997. Author Kelly, Kate. Title The ADDed dimension : celebrating the opportunities, rewards and challenges of the ADD experience / Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo ; with D. Steven Ledingham. Publisher New York : Simon & Schuster, 1998, c1997. Author Kelly, Kate. Title You mean I'm not lazy, stupid, or crazy? : a self-help book for adults with attention deficit disorder / Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo. Publisher New York : Scribner, 1995. Author Sudderth, David B. Title Adult ADD : the complete handbook : everything you need to know about how to cope and live well with ADD/ADHD / David Sudderth and Joseph Kandel. Publisher Rocklin, CA : Prima Pub., c1997. Author Amen, Daniel G. Title Healing ADD : the breakthrough program that allows you to see and heal the six types of attention deficit disorder / Daniel G. Amen. Publisher New York : Berkley Books, 2002. Author Amen, Daniel G. Title Change your brain, change your life : the breakthrough program for conquering anxiety, depression, obsessiveness, anger, and impulsiveness / Daniel G. Amen. Publisher New York : Three Rivers Press, [2000?] Author Amen, Daniel G. Title Don't shoot yourself in the foot / Daniel Amen. Publisher New York, NY : Warner Books, c1992. Author Zimmerman, Marcia. Title The ADD nutrition solution : a drug-free thirty day plan / Marcia Zimmerman. Publisher New York : Henry Holt and Co., 1999. Author Richardson, Wendy, 1954- Title The link between A.D.D. & addiction : getting the help you deserve / Wendy Richardson. Publisher Colorado Springs, Colo. : Pinon Press, c1997. Author Roberts, M. Susan. Title Living with ADD : a workbook for adults with Attention Deficit Disorder / M. Susan Roberts, Gerard J. Jansen. Publisher Oakland, CA : New Harbinger Pub., c1997.
John R. Spencer ADDed Potential Coaching (970) 689-7476 john_r_spencer@msn.com www.mullaneyvision.net/added
If you are managing or juggling, ADHD may be good. But the exact same
personality benefits that make you a prime project lead or manager, can
get you low marks if suddenly you find yourself in an "Individual Contributor"
role, who works under a very linear leadership.
Had a comment on one review that I would spread myself so thin that I
would appear to make very slow or little forward progress. But that person
was a very narrow-focused manager (very logical, stepwise, not horribly
imaginative, but could have had some of Spock's blood in him). Now the
other person I worked with as a project lead saw me handling the 20-30 odd some
little tasks necessary to finish the project -- jumping from task to task,
as I do a bit, then if blocked moved onto another task that had become
unblocked. Could cover the work of 2-3 different people: The number of
people who replaced my job when I was forced to move to a different group
because internal politics by people who didn't like my handling so many
different tasks.
There was a testing group that was _supposed_ to write a global make file
for our product -- it had been on their queue for a month. I tossed out
a prelim in a day or two and the manager of this testing group talked
to my director. Her people were complaining that I was "taking their job"
well it wasn't getting done, and we, in development, needed it. Our product
had legal issues that needed to be resolved. My manager told me to handle it
as he didn't have time. I did and pissed alot of people off by being
too direct and was told I had to go through proper channels to talk with
our legal and why was I messing in this when it wasn't my business to do
so? (another blockade person's job was threatened).
This all came down on me from my director who was unhappy that it took me
so long to fix some trivial low-severity, low-priority bugs (which were
done before ship). But I had just been jumping all over the place, doing the
jobs of too many other people who were being roadblocks rather than getting
things done that I'd get to the heart of in a tenth the time it took them.
My immediate project lead was thrilled with me and the progress we made in
getting the project out the door on time, but I got heavily down-rated by
my director for not doing my assigned tasks in the order assigned. It was
NOT my job as an "individual senior engineer at ZZZ" to be looking out for problems and fixing things before they became problems. Everyone wanted
their piece to look like they'd saved the day at the last second by coming through with something after sitting on their butts for days on end.
Another manager said my hardware needs stressed and were the highest in his
group and that was a problem -- never mind they were all being put to use
doing simultaneous jobs -- it was just that it appeared to others I was
demanding too many resources to do my job (of 3+ other people).
I bought into their bullshit and went on Dexidrine (more often used for
adult adhd, longer duration, schedule II). Intently focused on one
area and my new manager freaked as it looked like I might get promoted
over him, so dedicated many of his resources to destroy me -- like making
sure I could only work on 1 project at a time -- and that would be
writing documentation. I ended up with bad RSI still present over 2 years
later. And yes, the project I was removed from failed horribly due to
something I foresaw and told him about a year earlier, but his linear
thinking prevented him from seeing further than a few weeks ahead.
In a similar situation, I warned of non compilance of the OS with the CAPP and
LSPP specs spec 8 months before then went into review. I was told to mind my own buiness, as tht was not my assignment. The flaw was caught and
fixing late in the game cost alot of lost test work and a couple $100K extra
(besides the month+ delay in the schedule just for the
Well, it was really complicated to start with. . . I knew something was wrong, I mentioned it to my M.D. a few times, but never really did anything about it.
Had a visit with a naturopath, and she did some blood work, checked out accupuncture points (this is a bit sketchy, but seems to have a reasonable degree of accuracy), and recommended I read the book "Eat Right for Your Type" -- search for ISBN #039914255X. It's impossible to follow everything in the book, it's just way too hard core, but even the small changes made a big difference. The main point of it, is our immune system reacts differently depending on the blood type, which change what food is ideal. The first thing to do is find out your blood type, and then proceed to read -- even skim -- the book.
Regarding the compounts, the ones that seemed to make the greatest difference were the B-vitamins, amino acid precursors (5-HTP -- 5-HydroxyTryptophan, and L-Tyrosine), and Omega-3 fatty acids.
In the human diet, we consume tryptophan from foods like meats, etc. -- turkey is commonly known to have a high amount of tryptophan. The problem with eating tryptophan in the diet is that there is a plethora of other amino acids competing across the same transport bus to reach the brain. You're a fellow geek, think of it as like one IRQ and thousands of devices sharing the same IRQ. The more traffic other devices make on the bus, the less of everything else that gets through. Elevated insulin levels clear the blood of many other amino acids and leave tryptophan, so if you ever wonder why "you've got the munchies" at night, maybe you've just got the serotonin munchies! (Look at many people who are depressed, bingeing out on ice cream, sweets, chips, chocolate, etc.) 5-HTP or 5-HydroxyTryptophan is the next step in the conversion process from Tryptophan, and one step away from 5-HT, serotonin, or 5-hydroxytryptamine. So many people could avoid antidepressant use with simple 5-HTP supplementation, other than with severe depression, where antidepressants would be strongly recommended. If you want formalized published literature to read about it, check out ISBN #0553379461, otherwise there's tons of info on the net, just cross-reference it really well to get rid of the zealots.
L-Tyrosine is yet another amino acid precursor. It is used to form dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine (adrenaline, noradrenaline), melanin, and thyroid hormone. It may have multiple forms of action, boosting thyroid hormone levels as well as brain activity. I can't remember all of the details, go out on the net my son (j/k), googleize it!!!
Regarding the Omega-3 fatty acids, I am using a combination of EPA and DHA. They mostly have mood stabilizing properties similar to lithium (from one study anyways), help out circulation, and I think I read somewhere it makes the membranes at the synapse more fluid, so that bursts of neurotransmitter are not released at once, but rather in a more orderly fashion.
If you have any sleep disturbances, the melatonin might be worth a try as well. It made a huge difference in my case, but reacts completely the opposite with my other family members.
http://www.adders.org
Medication is great, in some sense. They've actually found medications that affect most people and tame them down.
As for what is ADHD? Truly, it's mostly a product of society and the environment you grew up in. If every time you got bored you found a new show or a new game, of course you're probably going to develop ADHD.
ADHD is the inability to concentrate fully on a particular subject. Society looks at this as a bad thing. A lot of us who have been diagnosed with ADHD -- whether we believe it or not -- use this "multitasking" in order to be more efficient with our work.
My recommendation? Don't get a job where you have to do one thing and can't concentrate on other stuff.
Outside of that, I found drugs to be far too aggressive and screwed me up in ways far worse than not being able to concentrate on a single subject.
In the end the choice is yours. You can force yourself to concentrate if you need to. You just have to train yourself to do that.
Pyroluria? I am familiar with that word. From what I have read, B6 deficiency does come with adrenal fatigue although I have never read why. You may want to read the book "Adrenal Fatigue - The 21st century stress syndrome" by James L. Wilson. I have yet to go the the medical library to study B6. It is was so much of a hassle with all the medical students there, but now that they are going on summer break, I might do some studying.
.
I suspect all the diseases you listed are caused by adrenal fatigue. My hypothesis is only in the early stages though. Autistic children have a poor stress response. Adrenal fatigue would cause that. I know for a fact, just surfing the internet that there is a symptomatic relief in Autism with super high doses of B6. There is also a definite B6 deficiency in depression. Serotonin is synthesized by B6 and tryptophan. Supplementing with both should ease most cases of depression according to Pricilla Slagle MD in her book "The Way Up From Down".
Schizophrenia may be caused by an excess of dopamine. High norepinephrine, as its precursor, may cause excessive dopamine. Hence the fact that stimulants raise both chemicals and cause schizophrenia. That is why stimulants should be declared unethical to prescribe. Abram Hoffer MD PHD verifies your statement that there is B6 deficiencies in schizphrenia.
Your reseach field of diseases coincides with the ones I am interested in. It is too bad I cannot give you an explanation of how adrenal fatigue causes B6 deficiency. All I know is that when I stablized my cortisol levels with licorice and phosphatidylserine and aided the adrenals by supplementing with adrenal cortical extract my ADD disappeared. Though, I still have other problems that remain unresolved.
If you are in the USA you might want to be treated by an adrenal fatigue doctor http://www.chronicfatigue.org
I have done amazingly well on his therapies. You can take a saliva test in the comfort of your own home to see your adrenal function and he'll treat you accordingly. Well, it may be a she because he is having voice problems.
He specializes in chronic fatigue which has an adrenal fatigue component, but he'll treat any adrenal fatigue you have if it shows up on the test. Just convince him to order you a test and once he sees the results I bet he'll treat you even if you don't have fatigue.
As for more research in pyroluria, you could instead try to find a doctor from
http://www.acam.org ACAM
or you could try to find books on
http://www.orthomed.org - Orthomolecular Medicine.
Those would be your best bets.
As a note: Sorry I used Extrans because I didn't want to mess with html code so you will have to cut and past the links. I didn't decide until yesterday to learn html. I am learning it just for Slashdot posting. I guess I'll spend time looking at W3C pages.
Care to scan your standardized test scores and provide them for viewing by the audience?
You have exactly 314 seconds to come up with a less retarded plot.
Another boring troll shill provided to you by someone with too much free time.
You have exactly 314 seconds to come up with a less retarded plot.
Seems like these days all that society wants from itself is conformity; we all have to think alike, we all have to act alike, etc. All disorders can be coped with naturally, through your own determination; although the popular "solution" is a quick fix so people can be "normal"; this quick fix is usually found in some innocuous-looking white pill. "Accepting" ADHD and medicating yourself is just another form of self-denial. People are different and diverse, and yet this recent desire for us all to be absolutely identical to one another is apparently only appalling to me.
For a while, my mother was (and if you bring it up in conversation, still is) an ADD/ADHD evangelist. She thinks everyone has it, or has it in combination with some "emotional component" or whatever-the-fuck. It's just another label which helps us as a society to cope with this diversity present within society. Why people feel a need to flee this diversity and conform is beyond me; probably a search for acceptance?
Fuck that; I want to be different. I've always been borderline in any analysis of my ADHD-ness, and about all of this matter I have only this to say: To hell with lab-created and guinea-pig tested medications; to hell with becoming a robot; to hell with thinking INSIDE the box! I'm going to be fucking quirky--and if you don't like it, then you can fuck right off.
Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
I've been OCD all my life, which is not necessarily a bad thing if you code ;-). But 5 years ago I got dx'ed with MS, and that made me start looking around. I didn't really think the 2 maladies converged until I happened on this link:
Amalgam FAQ
The short take is that dental fillings are made from over 50% mercury and that mercury is the cause of a great many neurological disorders for a great many people.
5 years ago it was controversial. Now congress (Dan Burton, http://www.house.gov/burton/) is looking into thimerisols (mercury based vaccine additive) role in autism and those hearings are beginning to touch on dental amalgams as well. In short, I figure 5 years and this will make the tobacco hearings look like a boyscout jamboree.
As for me, after removal of my fillings, OCD is gone, many other neurotic habits disappeared with it, and I went from having trouble walking and talking to playing basketball 3 times a week. It may apply to you , may not, but it's worth a look.
Good luck, man.
-mvc
There are an lot of newsgroups on the internet where jou can find awnsers on jour qustion.
Hyperactif Greetings, Ben
I'm not sure what the "H" is for, my one of my grandsons was diagnosed with ADD and put on meds. I wanted to understand it better so I checked Google and found a very knowledgeable lady who has the same problem (she is a grown, professional woman). I thought I'd saved her site in my "favorites" file but if so, I can't find it. I would suggest, though, doing a Google search and maybe you'll be as lucky as I was and find this lady. I think she's a psycologist, and knows whereof she speaks. Best of luck to you!
it may be a long shot but its really easy and safe to find out - try not eating wheat for a few weeks - I know someone who was very hyperactive prior to changing diet - probably more adrenal in his case, but the symptoms are close to ADHD.
Other food groups to look at include nuts, dairy and grasses (i.e. rice).
"Why not just join a Zen monastery". Or just drink more coffee, beer, and bourbon, as the need prevails. I'm not making light of this problem, as I take it very seriously. But when I was growing up they didn't have docs who diagnosed ADD. Back then parents and teachers just called us a pain in the ass, and beat the hell out of us. I quickly learned to drink more coffee, beer, and rum. My tastes have since changed to good bourbon, and I haven't beat the hell out of anyone in years. I'm getting old so I hope I never have to do that again. -All the best, -Alph
I am a 27 year old male who has just diagnosed myself with ADHD. I am writing from the UK (Iâ(TM)m British) and would just like to let you know how overwhelming it is to find out so much information on US web sites regarding the above. After being made redundant 3 times in the last 18 months I decided to do some Psychometric testing on-line which in turn led to entrepreneur tests then to discovering what ADHD is exactly. What a relief to find out there are âotherâ(TM) people who actually know about all of the torment I have been going through all my life, Expelled from Junior/Senior School, Short employment, Stealing cars, Selling drugs, Psychotherapy, Car/Motorcycle accidents, Prison, Near death experiences, Unemployment not to mention the grief to my parents and many girlfriends I have caused along the way! I went to see my Doctor after extensive research on the NET to inform him of my disorder, he agreed and told me the reason he never told me before was because it is DISMISSED in the UK by the medical society, they blame it on the childâ(TM)s upbringing and say it does not continue into adults, "It goes away"! He also told me he himself has ADD, He has spoken to professionals he is in regular contact with in the medical profession but they are so narrow minded that they would not accept it, if our country would only recognize this disorder our society would benefit immensely as our prison's for one must contain 80% undiagnosed ADD/ADHDer's. He advised me if I find someone who deals with ADHD in the UK he will gladly refer me. So off I went and spoke to the local psychiatric/psychology and psychotherapy unit to be told they could not help and do not know of any direction to point me in. Most of the web sites in the UK seemed to be out of date with contact numbers however I have since found a hospital which deals with ADHD and have been referred, however there is a minimum of 6 month waiting list due to lack of professional's in the UK to address such need. I was shocked to find out on the 5th February 2003 in the houses of parliament this very topic was being discussed, my GP informed me when President Clinton visited PM John Major them years ago he told him the UK will have to address this situation. I welcome any comments or information you could give me
Wow. 90% of the people born in the last 35 years can be diagnosed with ADHD. It's a new label for being "creative, energetic, and impulsive."
The only thing that's really changed is now parents and teachers dope their kids up to keep them under control with minimal effort.
Like several other posters, I have all the symptoms of ADHD. My parents refused to drug me despite requests by teachers that really don't want to have to expend the effort to deal with some kids.
I turned out fine. I learned discipline to keep my focus. I learned there are consequences to being a flake and not finishing things.
No, I can't focus as well as some people, and my mind darts all over the place. But damnit, I like it that way, and unlike some people I know, I don't use it as an excuse.
I've not been diagnosed, but I exhibit many of the symptoms, and have pretty much all my life (I'm 50.) As it happens I now work in an environment that fosters creativity. That allows the ADHD to becomes something of a resource rather than a disability, as those conversational tangents that goe with ADHD lead to "out of the box" thinking.
That said, one must still function in the linear world, and for that I make certain to enter all appointments, deadlines, and such into my calendar. Using organizational tools is a huge help.
Good luck.
my life is a country music song.
I'm dyslexic which, in case you didn't know, is related to ADHD. In act many dylexics also have ADHD and often you can't tell where the ADHD symptoms stop and the dyslexic ones start.
I just thought I'd say that dyslexia (at work) does cause problems when it comes to concentration etc. which gets me into trouble (especially in meetings or training sessions when I've no idea what they've been talking about because I was daydreaming or something).
But on the other hand the ability to concentrate on an interesting subject and see it from all sides in an instant and the creativity that dyslexia give you can be a great boost.
It's held me back in certain areas but shot me forward past all my peers in others.
I can pick up how to use a new piece of software before they've even finished explaining what it does. My colleagues then need me to explain to them over a period of weeks what I learned in the one meeting. So it does help as well as hinder.
I found once I'd been diagnosed I began to undersand the symptoms more. I read up on the subject and now I am more in control of myself than before.
I still get the urge to run around the room or yell out when a meeting is so damn boring I could chew the desk just to have something to concentrate on, but I don't fidget as much as I used to.
The one habit I'm finding hard to break is looking at my watch every few seconds. I don't have a sense of time so to me it feels like I'm doing it once or twice and hour but really it's once or twice a minute.
If spotted people often take offense as if I'm trying to speed them up but I'd do it even if I was in a room on my own.
I also have a problem with people not keeping up in discussions. I make so many jumps ahead based on internal dialogue that it really riles me when I have to go back and explain every little step to someone who has to take the time to work through the stages.
I personally believe that ADHD or whatever you want to call it is the result of two factors (at least in my case): 1) Boredom and lack of challenge. 2) Lack of self-discipline ADHD is caused by genetics, not boredom. ADHD has run in my family for generations. However, I will agree that you can overcome it as you get older. The results came back that I was reading and doing math on a high school level and my IQ around 150. It seems ironic to me that most people I have met who have ADHD tend to be smarter at reading and math and have above-average IQs. Take me, for example. My IQ was tested at ~175 in elementary school. I knew how to read before I was in kindergarten (at least my parents tell me I did). In second grade I began doing 6th grade math, and I took a couple college math courses in junior high. Why do I find it ironic? Simply because of the definition of ADHD. ADHD is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. There is a deficiency in the chemical that bridges the gap between neuron synapses, so that some signals are transmitted more slowly than others (or just aren't transmitted at all). Logically, this would seem to make it so that people with ADHD would think more slowly and less efficiently than others. It would seem that the case is just the opposite.
This is not part of my post. It's my signature. I bet you're disappointed.
Look into Strattera rather that Ritalin.
TT
I believe that people are the pawns of drug companies, with their ads like:
"Are you having difficulty remaing focused? You may have ADHD, see your doctor ao see if a sample for DRUG-X is right for you."
It is bull, who hasn't had a hard time focusing? People just want to blame their problems it on somthing that they can take a pill for.
If you can do things at the last minute, you prove that you can do work when you really want to.
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If you can do programming because its "interesting" you can do things which arent "interesting" simply because they need to be done.
A person with REAL ADD, cannot do anything, even things they like doing.
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Washington Post Study
This basically proves with science that you can prevent your brain from developing disorders by using it.
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There has been Research!
The brain adapts to use, research leads us to believe the brain is like any other muscle, use it or lose it.
So the try harder talk actually does make sense. Kinda like what you can tell a fat person. Of course some people want to believe fat people have a disease.
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Try doing some Research
Come to your conclusions based on the data. The data currently leads to the conclusion that these drugs do benefit average people.
Do not post a response to this unless you have done your research and you have sources backing up your claims. Learn about anatomy and the current treatments or shut up with these ridiculous unsubstantiated OPINIONS
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Then if i took the test for gifted children when i was young and qualified... then why did i not test positive for ADHD?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
drink less java man. you are way too hyped up...
Tibbon
tibbon.com
hmm... don't we all have ADHD if we read ./ nonstop?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Take care to thoroughly research any substances that you are considering as an alternative. The drugs that are prescribed have been through extensive testing to ensure that side-effects are minimal, and that the medication has significant effects upon what it is meant to treat. If you take something else, there is the good chance that it won't work, or if it does, then only negligibly, and/or that it will have harmful side-effects. Read up on something before taking it, and if you can't find very many articles on a given item in a PROFESSIONAL journal, don't take it. Also, if you are adverse to taking pills, you may wish to consider persuing Cognitive-Behavioral therapy. It has been shown to be at least as effective in the treatment of similar disorders, such as OCD, and I would not be surprised if it were effective with ADHD as well. The only catch is that you have to be willing to do it, and recognize that most of the effort is client-side. After all, you can only lead a horse to water....
I had the same experience, and I agree with your point of view.
The school systems I had been in had no regard for my prowess or my intellectual needs, and regarded me as a disciplinary problem, but the psychiatrist they assigned to find out what was wrong with me figures I need to be in MENSA?
Thats typical.
Here's the kicker: after the selected students had taken the algebra course for half of a year, the entire grade was given the "algebra palcement test." There were 64 questions on the test. My score was a perfect 64 out of 64. The next best score was from one of the students who had been in the algebra class for half a year already. He scored slightly less than 50% correct. I took my test scores to the principal and asked to be admitted to the algrbra class. I was flatly refused. No reason was given even when I asked.
The same kinda stuff happened to me.
Teachers care too much about you doing your homework, being to school on time, etc, thats the main reason I didnt get all As in highschool. The work was never really challenging, its all the stupid rules and structure.
You are right school is boring as hell, College is much better however, while the work in College usually isnt challenging, theres less structure and rules.
The school I attended for 2 years was set up to have children "work at their own pace" without alot of "structure" that could inhibit them. In other words, they let us run free and provided us with a workbook that encapsulated the whole school year's worth of teaching. Needless to say, this was not the best environment for a super-hyper child.
I think you went to one of these schools when you were too young to take advantage of it. I did fine in this enviornment while I was in highschool. I'm doing fine in this enviornment in college.
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Standardized tests? You are going to judge him by his tests?
Then again he was bragging quite a bit about his scores.
I did well on certain IQ tests and standized tests too, however these things dont really matter, if you dont do your homework, get to class late, talk, sleep, or make fun of the teacher in class.
Some of the things he mentioned however are valid because I have had some of the same experiences, getting high IQ scores, doing well on tests, and going to school to do work that was so easy I'd sooner fall asleep than finish it.
Instead of asking him what his test scores are, find out his GPA. You can get 100 on all your tests, get 100 on all your work, but with poor attendence, or lack of ass kissing skills, you'll have a low GPA.
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I might still be like that. When I was a kid I would literally play video games for DAYS at a time. Now I'm sorta like that with computers, although not as much as I was when I first got one.
The trick is this, have variety in what you do, but keep that variety on topic, if you do a ton of things on the computer but its all on the computer, you become a computer expert, or at least thats the case with me.
If I just focused on one thing at a time I would know how to use Microsoft Word or IE really well but wouldnt know Linux, Windows, C, Visual Basic, and how to use thousands of programs that I've used over the years.
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Parent provides valid counter-perspective to grandparent's comment (which has some equally interesting points itself).
I've been able to concentrate in any enviornment. I grew up doing it, perhaps thats one of the reasons everyone THOUGHT I had ADD.
I could be in a classroom where theres 30-40 kids and a teacher all talking, all kinds of noise, and I'm off in my own world of thoughts ignoring the enviornment entirely.
Guess what, if you concentrate too much on something thats not school related thats when its ADHD, if you concentrate like that on the teacher and class, suddenly its not ADHD.
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I do know I'm not going to take some pills over it.
This clearly makes you a better person. Kudos to you, sir! You are drug-free and nonjudgemental!
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
when i was younger i was diagnosed with ADD, then later when ADHD became the buzzword, i was diagnosed with that too. for years my parents moved me from doctor to doctor, and each doctor had a different favorite medicine to use. For years i was on ritalin, then moved to cylert for a few months, and then on to dexedrine, and finally to adderall, which i would probably still be taking today, except a couple of years ago i basically just told my parents i had had it with the stuff.
why? because while the medicines may have made it easier for me to concentrate on one single task, they also had many side effects, like getting extremely depressed when the dose was wearing off (adderall), or making me not feel like eating no matter how hungry i was at the time (dexedrine).
one side effect i didnt notice till recently was how i dont have any clear memories from the years when i was on heavy doses of ritalin. i can remember years before, but for some reason i cant remember much of anything in the period i was taking the meds. this may just be me though.
as for how ADHD helps me, i find that not being able to concentrate effectively makes me much more able to multitask. i currently work in IT, and have at times found myself working on 5 different computers all at the same time, because i cant concentrate on one thing for a long enough time, so i end up doing many things at once.
I was diagnosed with it as a kid. I know from experience.
I dont know if I still have it now, but no its not like being in a crowded room, you act like a person with ADHD knows the difference or cares, when you drift off and daydream, you are thinking about things that are interesting to you.
I never had an episode of daydreaming where I'd begin thinking about doing complex math problems, why? Because i never liked math.
Also these features sure as hell helped me with computers. You can say that its bad to daydream but if you are at school doing drudge work thats trivial, and your mind is solving a bunch of computer related problems, if you balance it right, you can be doing one thing and thinking about something else.
Since I've been there as a kid, I can judge "OUR" problem.
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Good info and pep talk for ADHDers.
If you can choose what to concentrate on for any real length of time, it's not ADHD.
The brain is a physical organ that is activated by stimulus.
This means a person or mind is not a physical object, the mind is metaphysical because its the result of the envoirnment, the world you live in creates the "mind". The physical structure of the brain adapts to the mind and the mind is influenced by the minds of others, which means we all are connected in terms of our minds, but physically we are seperate.
Right now whoever reads this post, their physical brain was directly altered by me but I didnt physically touch them.
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MSG is known as "gourmet powder" in Chinese, fwiw.
Generally not added to chicken because it's already the most delicious meat.
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
A space crept into that URL somehows. This works:n f/Abstra cts/poster_j.htm
http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/stanley/3rdbipco
Thanks for that post.
That is interesting at the very least. I've never heard of Cloningerâ(TM)s Tridimensional Personality Questionnaire (TPQ). Anyone taken that?
After the 'Results' come the article's 'Conclusions' which make me a tad uncomfortable:
"Conclusions: These results suggest that the MBTI extroversion/introversion, sensing/intuitive, and judging/perceiving dichotomies, and the TPQ novelty seeking novelty seeking scale and its subscales can differentiate unipolar and bipolar patients."
The Myers Briggs folks go through great length to stress that their test is only an indicator of types that are not good or bad or better or worse. I'm not so sure I'd want a potential employer thinking, hmmm, ENTP eh? no jobs for that bipolar freak of nature!
http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/stanley/3rdb
ttp://www.wpic.pitt.edu/stanley
tp://www.wpic.pitt.edu/stanley/3
It doesn't appear to make any difference whether I choose Plain Old Text or HTML. Perhaps I'm missing something obvious here, but using
I've had childhood experiences with ADHD. I'd say thats about as much experience as any of these posters.
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There are many kinds of "addiction". On the one hand, there's the crack addict whose need for the drug overrides even the most basic drives, like hunger and sex. On the other hand, there's the coffee addict who merely gets irritable if he has to do without. Although these two kinds of addiction are superficially similar, biologically they are completely different. Crack actually rewires your brain to create your craving for the drug. Caffeine has some effect on your brain, but mainly creates "addiction" by causing your body to adjust to it -- and your body hates having to adjust back.
Now, one very very interesting aspect of ADHD is that heavy stimulant drugs (Ritalin, the amphetamines) don't affect ADHD people the same way they affect the population at large. For most adults, use of stimulants runs a serious risk of a really nasty crack-style addiction. But for ADHD people, the addiction is more like the coffee one.
Many people are concerned about drug abuse. It's a legitimate concern, but it's too often based on a simplistic attitudes that view all drug use as moral weakness. I hope you won't let that attitude pressure you into choices the conflict with your medical needs.
Why are you talking to me, HanzoSan? What does this have to do with you?
Standardized tests? You are going to judge him by his tests?
I want to see them. He claims to have them, and I asked him if he wanted to provide them.
Some of the things he mentioned however are valid because I have had some of the same experiences
That statement makes absolutely no sense.
getting high IQ scores
Provide scans of your results.
Instead of asking him what his test scores are, find out his GPA
I don't care about his academic performance. Go away, HanzoSan. Spend the time you use being wrong on Slashdot all of the time, doing something. Take more than two classes at your community college.
You have exactly 314 seconds to come up with a less retarded plot.
Make sure you really ADHD try other doctors, read lots, many have been miss diagnosed with ADHD as the medical community does not know what ADHD is and what causes ADHD. My older son was told he was ADHD in actually we found that he had Edison trait, which is name after Mr. Edison, the mind is a multitasking mind and because the person does not appear to be concentrating on one subject at a time they are considered disruptive, but if you as then they can tell you what was happening even though they are not paying attention. A good book to read is Dreamers, Discovers, and Dynamos by Lucy Jo Palladino, PHD. Her book covers her thoughts and how the medical community can help, with direction from the person themselves. People forget, Doctors are not gods and they do not know all, they need the patient to help them make a proper diagnoses, and if the doctor does not allow the patient to help in the diagnoses and cure things get extremely screwed up.
I was diagnosed 19 years ago and was placed on Ritalin. Problem was: My tolerance kept increasing to the dosage I was being given. Eventually, I asked to be taken off the medication once I had reached the maximum allowed dosage and it was no longer helping.
Since then, I have dealt with my ADHD through behaviour modification mostly.
-- Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur.
One article in the Washington Post is pretty thin supporting evidence, considering all of the broad, self-assured assertions that you have so confidently made.
To the best of my knowledge there are 9 known genetic mutations that are implicated in ADHD. There is only 1 (and a possible second) mutation implicated in ADD. The ADD mutation is not implicated in ADHD.
Some of the symptoms are similar, and the treatments are similar, but they are genetically distinct differences.
Stonewolf, diagnosed with ADD at age 45....
With regard to ADD, one of the results of increasing dopamine levels (what the meds do) is to decrease the frequency of randomly firing neurons. In other words, it reduces the amount of background noise in areas of the brain that respond to dopamine. This was even mentioned in one of the articles you posted earlier. The reduction in background noise has implications for concentration, but it also has profound implications for the way memories are formed. One of my areas of research is the influence of background noise on Hebbian learning in neural networks, so I have dealt with this exact subject in my own experiments and simulations (these are biologically realistic neural nets, so the critisism that artificial nets are poor representations of biological nervous systems does not apply). It turns out that a certain level background noise is required for Hebbian learning to work correctly. There is an optimum level of noise -- too much or too little and the network will still learn, but it will not learn anything useful and the learning may actually remove useful functions from the network. A person whose dopamine levels are out of whack will not receive the same benefit from brain exercises as someone who has normal dopamine levels (this probably applies to other neurotransmitters as well). There will still be some benefit, but not to the same degree. So it is true that you can rewire your brain, but it is not true that the rewiring will always be useful. In the case of people who suffer from mental disorders, their brains are likely to be physically incapable of "learning" their way out of the illness. Once medicated and functioning properly, it is sometimes possible for a brain to learn how to remain normal (become more resilient to background noise in the case of ADD). If successful, a person may be able to go off of the medication at some point. This ability will vary from person to person and will not be constant across all disorders. What works for some people will not work for everyone. Some people will always require medication to function normally, and some people will not respond to medication or cognitive therapy. Luckily, they are the exception and not the rule.
I find that simple Zen meditation has the ability to calm the mind and focus it on "one thing at at time". Most people would tend toward ADHD under certain circumstances. It's just part of our interrupt driven lifestyle. With proper training and practice, the mind can priortize all the those outside distractions and narrow in on doing what it's supposed to be doing, e.g. "eat when you eat and sleep when you sleep (drugfree too)".
hmmm, thats odd. In Ohio, a doctor signing a paper saying "this kid has ADHD", and after the Child takes a 2 hour test on basic school knowlage, the kid is intitled to a tutor, and the school gets 20 grand from the state to help the new special-ed student. Too bad that schools dont actually have to spend the cash on the kid! I had a 31 on my ACT freshman year, and was having trouble making myself do my homework. The school gave me a semi-retarded (I kid you not) tutor, who lost my study-skills worksheets, a broken 386dx, and a pencil.
I think the distinction hasn't been made enough, ADD and ADHD are VERY DIFFERENT.
:-p.
ADHD includes hyperactivity... we're talking EXTREME hyperactivity here.
whereas ADD is just the inability to pay attention, and that also includes having a different learning style than "normal society".
Kids with ADD and ADHD are stamped with the word "RETARD" on their forhead when they are diagnosed early in school.
Oh and let me say, the "Resource Room" is what many call "a haven for Dyslexic kids"... it's torchure... keep the kids together, just learn to teach them differently. NOT EVERYONE LEARNS THE SAME WAY!!!
you can't expect EVERY SINGLE KID to build a lego boat by following the instructions exactly, some do it exactly (whoopty freakin doo!) while others just plain do it in the easiest way for them.
some just plain make it look completely and totally different, and slackers like me just put it off until midnight before finals
Seriously now,
Society needs to accept these people for their strengths, not their weaknesses. I HAVE ADD, I'M A DORK, AND I'M DAMNED PROUD OF IT.
oh and by the way, i thank god that www.annarboracademy.org the ann arbor academy exists, because without it i would've killed myself in 8th grade due to all the S*!t that was happening in my life. THANK GOD!
works for me when I've missed the Adderall
not as Thorough, and has more of a Roller-Coaster effect but;
As a person with ADHD I found it extremely funny. Great job, wackybrit!
The key is mutual respect. I have to make her a priority. She has to know that there are other things in this world that ALSO require my attention.
Finding such a person isn't easy. But they are out there. And you only have to find one.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Sounds like you were misdiagnosed. Quit going around telling the world that just becasue you were bored out of your mind ADD doesn't exist...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
I'm quite curious by this topic of ADHD/ADD. I don't know whether to wonder if I might be affected, but I do know I have difficulty reading /any/ technical books (i.e. anything non-fictional) and when I was at school (I've just left: waiting to go to university) I had terrible trouble concentrating on some things. I was studying ICT (which was boring as hell: all very simple stuff), Math (which I quite enjoyed but sometimes got bored with it) and Physics (which I also enjoyed, but it took something /really/ interesting to get me to pay attention).
/read/ about it, I'm much more hands on with a problem).
I've always found ``revising'' hard and I virtually never done it. I don't know, generally I find myself easily distrated and with a short attention span, unless it's anything to do with computers (and even then, I can't
Any ideas if that's just because I'm bone idle, I'm a computer junkie or, maybe something else?
I was initially on ritalin, and let me tell you this, it sucks. During the school year I now take dexadrine, and I am much happier as a result. For those of you who have tried ritalin and as a result have avoided trying other medications, speak with your doctor concerning alternatives, and I guarantee that you will find a medication that you will be happy with
Husband? Brother? Cousin? Aunt? MORE cousins?
/. post)
Damn, lady. I can only imagine you all sitting around the dinner table WITHOUT medication:
Husband: Hi Honey, what's for dinner?
Wife: Spaghetti and.. oh look there's a hole in the ceiling!
Brother: Oh yeah, that was from when... (starts bouncing light off of his knife, engrossed by his distorted reflection)
Aunt: Can someone please pass the.. Is that someone at the door?
Wife: Oh yeah its Cousin Phil. (goes to answer door.. stops to rearrange magazine collection on the way.. Alphabetically.)
Cousin Phil: hey everyone, I brought Cousin. Nancy. Oh look, String! (ed: nod to previous
Cousin Nancy: Anyone have any crank? I'm dying over here.
I take Ginkgo with my Strattera. They interact well.
I'm 34, and I was diagnosed ADD about 8 months ago. Suddenly a lot of things in my past make sense. :-)
Anyway, you'll see a lot of people saying "try drug X", "no, drug X is no good, use drug Y", "no, don't use any drugs". The fact of the matter is this - EVERYBODY IS DIFFERENT. Everyone has different symptoms, to different degrees, and responds differently to medications, diet, magnesium supplements, or whatever other treatment you want to try.
The important thing is, make sure that once you have the diagnosis you work with your doctor(s) to determine what the best course of treatment is for you.
Personally, I'm on plain old generic-form Ritalin (methylphenidate). It's improved my focus (not 100%, but to the point where I'm not so annoying in meetings any more), and I haven't had any noticeable side effects (except for a slight rise in blood pressure which my doctor and I are monitoring).
Modding "-1, Troll" is not a proper response if you disagree with me. Try reason.
Auto mechanics are in the business of fixing something that they don't fully understand? I suggest you take your car someplace else the next time it breaks down, it'll probably save you a lot of trips to the mechanic.
Would anybody be interested in a pamphlet or booklet to present to their employer explaining ADHD and accommodations in the workplace? As a recipient of state Vocational Rehabilitation services that were a direct result of the severity of my ADHD, I've learned a fair bit about what's allowed and not allowed in terms of discrimination and accommodations. I'd like to author a booklet or something, but I'm not sure if there's actually an audience for it.
personal site: journal.amanita.net
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