Linux is ready for the desktop, perhaps if you Gnome people stopped tryinng to copy Windows every move you'd have a Desktop GUI.
OEONE is easy to use, its not windows based, no one ever complained about it being hard.
The reason Linux is hard is because its trying to be Linux and Windows at the same time, when you let Linux be Linux and build the GUI around Linux's strengths, Linux becomes easy to use.
The only problem is the installer situation, once thats fixed I expect Linux to begin to dominate the Desktop.
Using a Flash based GUI could work fine for most people considering the CPU speed they have now.
Also directFB and other projects have ways of making the GUI better.
Lastly, you could use Mozilla and render the GUI using XUL and have something thats nicer than current Linux GUI.
Linux's problem is X, its that simple. X render is not powerful enough, or easier enough to use, if it takes years to be easy enough to use thats too late.
I dont see IBM, or Anyone funding improvements to Xrender, I dont see Gnome developers working on improving Xfree, I dont see Gnome developers even working on making things innovative, they are busy copying windows.
Theres nothing wrong with copying windows, but you can never copy windows better than Microsoft.
Lindows has alot of money, Michael Robertson is a billionare, and he has support from others, Lindows isnt going anywhere,
Its $99? $99 will be for access to warehouse and what not, remember Lindows is GPL which means they MUST release the code, just let your friend burn you a CD, You wont be able to log into the warehouse without your friends password but you'll have Lindows.
Who in their right mind (talking consumer, not geek here) would throw out a perfectly good copy and replace it with a pay Linux? No one. Linux will always appeal exclusively to geeks, no matter if anyone on/. hopes to think otherwise. Geeks use slack or RedHat or Debian or Mandrake or enter-your-fav-distro-here. They can install it and get it for free. Your point is moot.
Word of mouth, the fact that while Lindows isnt free, by using it you get access to thousands of free programs which costs money to use under Windows,
Also add the fact that your windows programs will work in Lindows.
Lindows is a good OS with a good plan and if they market it correctly they can be as successful as redhat, right now it depends on how they market it.
Lindows is set to make their money on services like warehouse and click n run, I dont think they can stop people from distributing Lindows for cheaper or getting ISOs from friends.
But Linux elites want to make things complicated so they feel special
If linux were easy to use, they wouldnt be linux haxor elites anymore would they?
So they force commandline down peoples throats
Look commandline does have its uses, like for programming, debugging code, compiling programs, even configurations.
But for everything else, a GUI is always better, why use commandline for Desktop stuff? I can see if you are running a server and need statistics which update consistantly, or you need a way to display information without slowing the machine down
But you dont need commandline to burn MP3s, chat, play quake, i mean come on people even port QT to the commandline, and quake, and chat!! Seriously
The GUI is better at these things, the GUI is better for everyday use
I know the commands but i only use the commandline when I need to install something, its actually easier to install via the commandline than via graphical installer
cd programdir &&./configure && make && make install
installed
Then./program or commandname
perhaps a standard for for installing programs are needed but most of the time its easier than windows, until you have dependency problems
Why not chess? Give them a game linux users actually play, solitaire is what people who cant use the internet properly play. Even aol and yahoo offer chess, besides if you let them set up the modem first they can connect to a server and play chess with other people, chess can easily consume 30-40 minutes and would be perfect for long 7 dvd installs. hell add IM program like gaim or kopete in there and they may not even remember to exit the install
For the Desktop the battle is between Lindows, Mandrake and Lycoris.
I believe Lindows will win because
A they have the most funding
B they have a business plan that makes sense
The software warehouse can easily bring in cash. Mandrake has no stability even if they have cash Lycoris seems to have no business plan at all but are getting OEM deals?
Hows their stock doing? Anyone else here thinking about making an investment?
I think its nice to see a successful desktop linux, hopefully Lindows will also be successful, add Mandrake and you have 3 competiting desktop OS's which means we will get good products.
What Lycoris has to consider however is how they will make money, Lindows i think is onto something with the warehouse idea, Mandrake is looking for community support which is really unstsble and not something i'd be quick to invest in.
Lindows looks like the most profitble, Lycoris however has OEM deals which impress me alot.
First bill gates become a billionaire because hes a petty thug who steals ideas
I have respect for carmack hes the only one on that list who worked his way to the top.
what you dont mention is the fact that the consumers are also the workers.
Education is going to be more important, but what happens to americans who dont have masters degrees and above?
Also people take whatever jobs are there, thats why people work at mcdonalds, i dont think programming is the kinda job which takes alot of training, its something someone in china or india can do if they read a book and are given a refrence manual. Dont forget people in China are more productive than us because they work longer hours and on weekends, have less holidays etc.
Better products i'd agree on this we will have better products, but this doesnt mean cheaper products, it also doesnt mean we will still make the money we make today, theres too many variables and i dont think its worth the risk.
A. In a global economy, how do you secure your spot when you compete with the world?
B. What incentive does a company in the US have to hiring American workers over cheaper and equally efficient workers in other countries.
C. Whats to stop the wages from going down to the same level of a shoe salesman at footlocker, a mcdonalds worker, office clerk, or any of these other jobs? The only reason computer industry jobs pay 100k a year is because the demand still out weighs the supply, what happens when theres more programmers and technicians than needed and companies can actually choose between you and someone cheaper?
D. How does more competition benifit the American worker? Do we really want to be forced to work longer hours to compete with the efficiency of sweat shop programmers?
Who gives a damn about the "company" the only thing i care about is my job, and maybe the product, both which have nothing to do with the "company"
. Think $5,000 per hour minimum wage in US. The minimum wage is what inane propagandists brainwash ignorant people with. You're either propagandist or ignorant.
Ok econimics major from MIT, please answer some questions.
What incentive do companies have to pay workers more money than the absolute cheapest a worker will accept, if the market for these workers are worldwide, who sets the standard? The cheapest most efficient worker of course.
When you go to a store to buy something you buy the cheapest most efficient product, companies are far more sensitive to price than we are.
Second, question.
If the cheapest worker sets the standard, lets say $1 an hour is the standard to pay for a programmer world wide, because of the unlimited supply (you have the whole world market) the demand wont be high, thus the price wont be high; The reason programmers get paid currently at 100k a year in the USA is because the demand for them is high, theres not alot of programmers to choose from, programmers are of great value.
When you bring programmers in from the third world, it decreases the value of the programmer career until its down to the level of say shoe salesman, office clerk, typist, etc.
Please tell me how you maintain the demand when the supply increases?
Third question, without a minimum wage, what decides if a person can make a living and survive off of the income or not? Because not everyone can go to MIT and get a doctorates degree, what happens to these people who arent as well educated? Are they forced to work 14 hours a day 7 days a week to make ends meet?
You know what i notice, everyone who responds to my posts with "we dont need a minimum wage" and "we need globalism" or "globalism helps you" crap
Its always people who are pretty much secure, either elite CEOs who already are rich, or guys who are in elite colleges like MIT getting a Masters degree in science.
Honestly, what about the majority of everyone else whos not a science major at MIT or Harvard, we actually DO have to compete with the third world because unlike you, theres no way in hell we'd be able to market ourselves as something rare when in reality we are just another typical programmer, technician etc.
You see, people who dont want to battle the third world, who just want to survive, HATE globalism because it makes their survival much much harder,
The third world, well their survival is hard right now, bringing them into the corperate world = more competition which would equal better products but even if it does equal better products will i have money to buy it when im working 7 days a week 14 at minimum wage to compete with a guy in India who has no minimum wage?
You see the only people who wont be making minimum wage are MIT graduates with science degrees, these folks will be working on building quantum computers at IBMs research and development division,
The rest of us common programmers and technicians have to fight for survival.
Its not going to be pretty, unless you can give me advice on how to secure my job for the next 20 years and compete with the third world, dont tell me globalism is a good thing.
Alot of people would be working for a dollar an hour and unable to survive, some people would be forced to work 14 hours a day, etc
you need a minimum wage to set the standard,
now, sure you can claim in the USA you can make more than minimum wage, but you also have to be more educated, usually with a degree.
What if someone from china or pakistan is more educated than you, in fact what of hundreds of millions of them are, and they will all work for cheaper than you?
What it actually does is prevents all copying of all files unless those files are autherized for copying basically removing your fair use because no riaa CD will be authorized for copying
Why do you have to respond to every msg i write about anything?!
Theres alot of people here on slashdot who agree with my point of view.
lets respond to you.
what would that guy do? computer programming? mechanical engineering? with their infrastructure? get real.
About 30 percent of China has computers. Computers are cheap now, you could easily sell computers to people in the third world. People can learn programming on paper and through books if they cant afford a cheap computer. Infastructure? People in the third world are programming right now, my professor was from india, and alot of jewish and indian people are working for big companies, have you ever worked for a big company?
Umm..because i have some skills that are in demand? because the company might need good workers to keep making money?
And you seem to think Chinese, Indian or really anyone else with a computer in any country or even access to an internet cafe like box couldnt learn C? Come on get real, your skills arent in demand anymore, perhaps they were for alittle while, but as more and more people learn what you know in the third world, your skills will eventually not be in demand at all.
You seem to think "money" and "intelligence" are related, they arent, theres people in the third world who are far more intelligent than you, give them access to books and a computer (hell even a calculator is a computer) and even if they arent formally educated, by MIT, if they can do the job, they'll get hired because they are cheaper than you are and perhaps just as skilled.
Well, as soon as there are boatloads of afghani C programmers, then I'll start quaking in my boots. And also minimum wage jobs are hardly slave labor. you have the option to go somewhere else.
You act as if they dont have access to the internet, or books, are you really this stupid? 30 percent of China is online right now, I admit mostly in the urban community, and mostly through wireless connections, but 30 percent of China is about 350 million people, then theres India, Africa, Mexico, all of them are learning C and have access to tons of source code to learn from via Open Source and free OS via Linux.
You just dont see whats going on here, Miguel Icaza is from Mexico, hes a better programmer than you are, Ximian hires alot of guys from Mexico, Connectiva Linux, Turbo Linux, etc etc, these guys arent as stupid as you think.
Minimum Wage is needed, You have to admit we need a minimum wage. IF you dont agree, then you must be CEO because no job is secure enough that you cant be replaced by a worker from China or India who works for cheaper.
Sure these people dont have food and water, because of this they will be very motivated to learn C and master computers, and will do whatever it takes to get a job including work longer hours and for less money.
I expect Gamecube to actually have victory, so far it has the best games, the cheapest price, and the best graphics
its not even listed?!
Zelda, Pokemon, Mario, all of these games will be huge, and then theres the adult games too Gamecube is a very good system, sold equally well to Xbox and PS2, and sold well in Japan
I think this is premature, but next year we should ask this question again.
Slashdot Mirror
Linux is ready for the desktop, perhaps if you Gnome people stopped tryinng to copy Windows every move you'd have a Desktop GUI.
OEONE is easy to use, its not windows based, no one ever complained about it being hard.
The reason Linux is hard is because its trying to be Linux and Windows at the same time, when you let Linux be Linux and build the GUI around Linux's strengths, Linux becomes easy to use.
The only problem is the installer situation, once thats fixed I expect Linux to begin to dominate the Desktop.
Using a Flash based GUI could work fine for most people considering the CPU speed they have now.
Also directFB and other projects have ways of making the GUI better.
Lastly, you could use Mozilla and render the GUI using XUL and have something thats nicer than current Linux GUI.
Linux's problem is X, its that simple. X render is not powerful enough, or easier enough to use, if it takes years to be easy enough to use thats too late.
I dont see IBM, or Anyone funding improvements to Xrender, I dont see Gnome developers working on improving Xfree, I dont see Gnome developers even working on making things innovative, they are busy copying windows.
Theres nothing wrong with copying windows, but you can never copy windows better than Microsoft.
http://www.lindows.com Lindows.com
Lindows has alot of money, Michael Robertson is a billionare, and he has support from others, Lindows isnt going anywhere,
Its $99? $99 will be for access to warehouse and what not, remember Lindows is GPL which means they MUST release the code, just let your friend burn you a CD, You wont be able to log into the warehouse without your friends password but you'll have Lindows.
Who in their right mind (talking consumer, not geek here) would throw out a perfectly good copy and replace it with a pay Linux? No one. Linux will always appeal exclusively to geeks, no matter if anyone on
Word of mouth, the fact that while Lindows isnt free, by using it you get access to thousands of free programs which costs money to use under Windows,
Also add the fact that your windows programs will work in Lindows.
Lindows is a good OS with a good plan and if they market it correctly they can be as successful as redhat, right now it depends on how they market it.
Lindows is set to make their money on services like warehouse and click n run, I dont think they can stop people from distributing Lindows for cheaper or getting ISOs from friends.
But Linux elites want to make things complicated so they feel special
./configure && make && make install
./program or commandname
If linux were easy to use, they wouldnt be linux haxor elites anymore would they?
So they force commandline down peoples throats
Look commandline does have its uses, like for programming, debugging code, compiling programs, even configurations.
But for everything else, a GUI is always better, why use commandline for Desktop stuff? I can see if you are running a server and need statistics which update consistantly, or you need a way to display information without slowing the machine down
But you dont need commandline to burn MP3s, chat, play quake, i mean come on
people even port QT to the commandline, and quake, and chat!! Seriously
The GUI is better at these things, the GUI is better for everyday use
I know the commands but i only use the commandline when I need to install something, its actually easier to install via the commandline than via graphical installer
cd programdir &&
installed
Then
perhaps a standard for for installing programs are needed but most of the time its easier than windows, until you have dependency problems
Typical linux elitism
"You have to learn the commandline and thousands of commands"
Desktop User "I just want to get the web, play some games and burn some CDS"
"But the commandline gives you power to write scripts and manipulate programs in a more concise way!"
Desktop User "But I'm not a programmer, I just want to get on the web and have fun!!!!"
"Its more fun to play with commands and look like an elite linux haxor!!"
Desktop User "I just want a Desktop thats easy to use, linux sucks I'm going to try OSX"
How will lycoris compete with click n run?
How will mandrake compete with OEM contracts?
How will lindows compete with the linux community?
Why not chess? Give them a game linux users actually play, solitaire is what people who cant use the internet properly play.
Even aol and yahoo offer chess, besides if you let them set up the modem first they can connect to a server and play chess with other people, chess can easily consume 30-40 minutes and would be perfect for long 7 dvd installs. hell add IM program like gaim or kopete in there and they may not even remember to exit the install
ok Salesman
Redhat is Corperate Linux.
Redhat is good though.
For the Desktop the battle is between Lindows, Mandrake and Lycoris.
I believe Lindows will win because
A they have the most funding
B they have a business plan that makes sense
The software warehouse can easily bring in cash.
Mandrake has no stability even if they have cash
Lycoris seems to have no business plan at all but are getting OEM deals?
Hows RPM help at all? RPM sucks, dependency issues are what makes installs hard.
We need to solve that problem once and for all, then you can have Lindows style click and run installs.
Hows their stock doing? Anyone else here thinking about making an investment?
I think its nice to see a successful desktop linux, hopefully Lindows will also be successful, add Mandrake and you have 3 competiting desktop OS's which means we will get good products.
What Lycoris has to consider however is how they will make money, Lindows i think is onto something with the warehouse idea, Mandrake is looking for community support which is really unstsble and not something i'd be quick to invest in.
Lindows looks like the most profitble, Lycoris however has OEM deals which impress me alot.
First bill gates become a billionaire because hes a petty thug who steals ideas
I have respect for carmack hes the only one on that list who worked his way to the top.
what you dont mention is the fact that the consumers are also the workers.
Education is going to be more important, but what happens to americans who dont have masters degrees and above?
Also people take whatever jobs are there, thats why people work at mcdonalds, i dont think programming is the kinda job which takes alot of training, its something someone in china or india can do if they read a book and are given a refrence manual. Dont forget people in China are more productive than us because they work longer hours and on weekends, have less holidays etc.
Better products i'd agree on this we will have better products, but this doesnt mean cheaper products, it also doesnt mean we will still make the money we make today, theres too many variables and i dont think its worth the risk.
PCs arent sold as full packages but seperate companies selling seperate parts, this is why its competitive enough for prices to fall.
This isnt compareable to one company selling the whole product like say apple, nike, microsoft, etc.
A. In a global economy, how do you secure your spot when you compete with the world?
B. What incentive does a company in the US have to hiring American workers over cheaper and equally efficient workers in other countries.
C. Whats to stop the wages from going down to the same level of a shoe salesman at footlocker, a mcdonalds worker, office clerk, or any of these other jobs? The only reason computer industry jobs pay 100k a year is because the demand still out weighs the supply, what happens when theres more programmers and technicians than needed and companies can actually choose between you and someone cheaper?
D. How does more competition benifit the American worker? Do we really want to be forced to work longer hours to compete with the efficiency of sweat shop programmers?
Who gives a damn about the "company" the only thing i care about is my job, and maybe the product,
both which have nothing to do with the "company"
. Think $5,000 per hour minimum wage in US. The minimum wage is what inane propagandists brainwash ignorant people with. You're either propagandist or ignorant.
Ok econimics major from MIT, please answer some questions.
What incentive do companies have to pay workers more money than the absolute cheapest a worker will accept, if the market for these workers are worldwide, who sets the standard? The cheapest most efficient worker of course.
When you go to a store to buy something you buy the cheapest most efficient product, companies are far more sensitive to price than we are.
Second, question.
If the cheapest worker sets the standard, lets say $1 an hour is the standard to pay for a programmer world wide, because of the unlimited supply (you have the whole world market) the demand wont be high, thus the price wont be high;
The reason programmers get paid currently at 100k a year in the USA is because the demand for them is high, theres not alot of programmers to choose from, programmers are of great value.
When you bring programmers in from the third world, it decreases the value of the programmer career until its down to the level of say shoe salesman, office clerk, typist, etc.
Please tell me how you maintain the demand when the supply increases?
Third question, without a minimum wage, what decides if a person can make a living and survive off of the income or not? Because not everyone can go to MIT and get a doctorates degree, what happens to these people who arent as well educated? Are they forced to work 14 hours a day 7 days a week to make ends meet?
You know what i notice, everyone who responds to my posts with "we dont need a minimum wage" and "we need globalism" or "globalism helps you" crap
Its always people who are pretty much secure, either elite CEOs who already are rich, or guys who are in elite colleges like MIT getting a Masters degree in science.
Honestly, what about the majority of everyone else whos not a science major at MIT or Harvard, we actually DO have to compete with the third world because unlike you, theres no way in hell we'd be able to market ourselves as something rare when in reality we are just another typical programmer, technician etc.
You see, people who dont want to battle the third world, who just want to survive, HATE globalism because it makes their survival much much harder,
The third world, well their survival is hard right now, bringing them into the corperate world = more competition which would equal better products but even if it does equal better products will i have money to buy it when im working 7 days a week 14 at minimum wage to compete with a guy in India who has no minimum wage?
You see the only people who wont be making minimum wage are MIT graduates with science degrees, these folks will be working on building quantum computers at IBMs research and development division,
The rest of us common programmers and technicians have to fight for survival.
Its not going to be pretty, unless you can give me advice on how to secure my job for the next 20 years and compete with the third world, dont tell me globalism is a good thing.
Why should we help THEM when we have so much poverty and economy problems in our own country.
We should help them help themselves, not give them our economy.
Alot of people would be working for a dollar an hour and unable to survive, some people would be forced to work 14 hours a day, etc
you need a minimum wage to set the standard,
now, sure you can claim in the USA you can make more than minimum wage, but you also have to be more educated, usually with a degree.
What if someone from china or pakistan is more educated than you, in fact what of hundreds of millions of them are, and they will all work for cheaper than you?
Why hire you?
What it actually does is prevents all copying of all files unless those files are autherized for copying
basically removing your fair use because no riaa CD will be authorized for copying
So an American is worth more than an equally or superior educated chinese person doing the same exact job?!
People should get paid by what they are worth based on what they do not where they live.
Thats like saying a programmer from the ghetto in the USA shouldnt be paid as much as someone from upper class neighborhoods.
Where you live shouldnt define your worth.
The have nots are always more motivated than those that have.
Because the have nots, their survival is at stake.
Why do you have to respond to every msg i write about anything?!
Theres alot of people here on slashdot who agree with my point of view.
lets respond to you.
what would that guy do? computer programming? mechanical engineering? with their infrastructure? get real.
About 30 percent of China has computers. Computers are cheap now, you could easily sell computers to people in the third world. People can learn programming on paper and through books if they cant afford a cheap computer. Infastructure? People in the third world are programming right now, my professor was from india, and alot of jewish and indian people are working for big companies, have you ever worked for a big company?
Umm..because i have some skills that are in demand? because the company might need good workers to keep making money?
And you seem to think Chinese, Indian or really anyone else with a computer in any country or even access to an internet cafe like box couldnt learn C? Come on get real, your skills arent in demand anymore, perhaps they were for alittle while, but as more and more people learn what you know in the third world, your skills will eventually not be in demand at all.
You seem to think "money" and "intelligence" are related, they arent, theres people in the third world who are far more intelligent than you, give them access to books and a computer (hell even a calculator is a computer) and even if they arent formally educated, by MIT, if they can do the job, they'll get hired because they are cheaper than you are and perhaps just as skilled.
Well, as soon as there are boatloads of afghani C programmers, then I'll start quaking in my boots. And also minimum wage jobs are hardly slave labor. you have the option to go somewhere else.
You act as if they dont have access to the internet, or books, are you really this stupid? 30 percent of China is online right now, I admit mostly in the urban community, and mostly through wireless connections, but 30 percent of China is about 350 million people, then theres India, Africa, Mexico, all of them are learning C and have access to tons of source code to learn from via Open Source and free OS via Linux.
You just dont see whats going on here, Miguel Icaza is from Mexico, hes a better programmer than you are, Ximian hires alot of guys from Mexico, Connectiva Linux, Turbo Linux, etc etc, these guys arent as stupid as you think.
Minimum Wage is needed, You have to admit we need a minimum wage.
IF you dont agree, then you must be CEO because no job is secure enough that you cant be replaced by a worker from China or India who works for cheaper.
Sure these people dont have food and water, because of this they will be very motivated to learn C and master computers, and will do whatever it takes to get a job including work longer hours and for less money.
Costs go down, Prices either stay the same or go up.
Tell me why bill gates should lower the price of Windows? Because Windows is cheaper to produce? bullshit
No one forces him to lower the price.
Why should the price for nike sneakers go down? Because they are cheap to produce?
I know pave low, you are a CEO making millions or one of your family members are, so you dont want things to ever change
why would someone whos rich want the world to be fair?
I expect Gamecube to actually have victory,
so far it has the best games, the cheapest price, and the best graphics
its not even listed?!
Zelda, Pokemon, Mario, all of these games will be huge, and then theres the adult games too
Gamecube is a very good system, sold equally well to Xbox and PS2, and sold well in Japan
I think this is premature, but next year we should ask this question again.
Xbox hasnt even been out a year yet.
Gamecube isnt even listed
How are we going to have a winner right now? Lets ask this question in a couple of years, I predict gamecube will come out on top.
Ever notice how the prisons are filled with mexicians and other immagrants?
Its simple, people who break the law entering our country, will break the law once they are here, and if they dont, their children will
Criminals are not the people we want.