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Lycoris - Linux for the Masses?
Dejected @Work writes "MSNBC.com, a definitely sketchy source of Linux information, just came out with an article "Linux for the Masses" about the ease of installing Lycoris(formerly Redmond Linux) on the desktop. The author even concluded you can 'fall in love with an ever-easier-to-use operating system.' It sounds like great news but am I missing something?" Several favorable reviews of this distro recently. It looks like all you have to do to get the reviewers on your side is to let them play solitaire during the install. :) Update: 04/13 14:53 GMT by T : Eric Krout also suggests the two-part review (part one and part two) over on monolinux.
So, does it rhyme with Lavoris?
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
The really terrible thing is the kernel mods that are necessary to necessary to put the hooks in for their point-n-drool API. I know Linus has the guts to tell them no, but unfortunately all the major distros have started including those patches.
I guess that's the downside of Open Source. You can't make everyone learn the CLI like they should. *sigh*
Betcha Microsoft will have the article taken down within the hour! Anyone want to put some money in the pool? How long will it take them to take it down? 20 minutes... few hours? Heh.
_
WINDOWS USERS CLICK HERE!
I like the idea of linux for the masses, and I am all for the teaching of others to use linux- but that being said; there are so many people that don't even understand Windows 98 (let alone 2000) that I would be afraid of them using linux because they would be constantly coming to me. The people that can't find their 'run' command in windows- you know who I mean.
There are still some complexities in linux that most people will have a hard time with, such as installation and configuration of programs. Its getting better. RPM really helps out alot of people (I like it alot), but not everything uses RPM. I am having a terrible time getting Quake working on a Redhat 7.2 distro here right now (as well as problems with DVD decoding and Divx).
Linux for the masses is great, but lets not let the masses over-simplify it or take it to the lowest commom demononator. And let's not bloat it either (i know redhat is a hog, but it works pretty well)
Tibbon
Come on, the "finally, a linux distro for mom and dad!!" thread is as tired as KDE v GNOME.
the easiest way to get a favorable review is to include a deck of cards?
I mean, hell, everyone loves swag..
On a more serious note, assuming that the OS and GUI are suficiently easy to get to work, then it's a Good Thing. More *nixers the better, I say. (This is a reason I love OS X. )
I used to be someone else. Now I'm someone better.
Real life is underrated.
...there will be 100 [at least] people who write in "Linux doesn't belong on the desktop"
To those people I say: BLAH!
Look at Mandrake, hell look at Red Hat. Both distro's are so easy to install we are only waiting on post-install improvements.
RPM or DEB? They need to get a tad easier, then maybe we can be closer.
Get your Unix fortune now!
The devil will appear in a pleasing form.
This is just MSNBC's way of saying, "Really! We're well balanced journalism."
Give em a few weeks and they'll jump back on the slate-wagon of prank calling Judge Thomas-Pennefield Jackson in the middle of the night.
Tall, Blonde, and Weaponized!"
tcd004
The Lycoris home page and screen shot gallery.
I can just see it now: Clueless newbies installing "Lycoris" over and over again just to play more solitaire. And all the while they'll be saying, "I thought this Linux thing was supposed to be more efficient than Windows."
Think I'm kidding? Never underestimate the resourcefulness of the average idiot.
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
Make the users feel comfortable by showing them something they allready know. Then they can feel ok about the rest.
Just as well they changed the name - otherwise people would start thinking M$ had started bringing out Linux distros. :-D
Video Game cheats, hints a
Windows is "mindless to install."
In my opinion, "brainless" would be more appropriate here. ':7)
Seriously, looks interesting.
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My mom (63, homemaker all of her life).. has used KDE since 2.1 and it's really been quite easy for her to use. She has only used computers for 2-3 years. Before introducing her to KDE, she had been using Windows for only about a year and a half. Now, I take care of installing software/any maintainance, but I think if I gave her a box of something linux lycoris or lindows, she'd learn how to install software of her own.
So, therefore, kudos to the KDE team for making a desktop that both me and my mom can use (thx configurability), and kudos to new and novel distro makers like lycoris.
Based on what I see in the review, it does indeed look like they've done a good job producing the "anti-geek" Linux distro. I never thought there was any reason not to use Linux as a desktop OS, but I have always throught that the best qualities of Linux (no central control and ownership) were also the reasons it would not succeed on the desktop: No marketing, no power to challenge the Microsoft OEM stranglehold.
The most interesting aspect to me was that they sell cheapish desktops and laptops preinstalled with their distro. There are other Linux preinstallers, but most of them seem to aim at the geek mainstream or the server business.
There is no reason Linux can't be a major desktop player technically or practically, but the marketing muscle has always been absent. Lycoris may be a great product, but I don't see where it changes anything on that marketing power front.
Still, I may just buy their cheap desktop for my technophobe mother-in-law who doesn't know Windows or Linux. I will bet she will have no problems using the machine and will never ever wish she had Windows, or even really know that she isn't using Windows.
Did anyone neglect to see the MSN ad in the f@cking middle of this article? Ahh the irony. Kind of like when we all found out that they built Bill Gates' house with linux. Cant beat this crowd.
I got this sig off of KaZaA this morning
A larger user base could end up reflecting badly on linux in that hoards of less-competent users could set up servers with such wild security idiocies as having user names and passwords the same - then blaming the o/s when they get rooted.
Didn't Caldera do this recently? Other than they had Tetris or Pac-man instead for a game.
Wow...I was just (not five minutes ago) on distrowatch.com where I went to Lycoris's website and looked around!
...Without having to pay the Microsoft Tax, they can sell the machines much cheaper, it seems!
At anyrate, you can actually buy a pretty inexpensive HP laptop (as well as a few desktops) from them on which they will preinstall Lycoris Linux for you
I find it funny that - in an article with over 1000 words - there's not a single HREF to be found. No link to the Lycoris site, to those cheap PC/laptops they're selling or to anything else. How helpful.
Most of the desktop icons are lifted straight from Windows XP. Aside from reinforcing the meme that KDE is a total Windows ripoff, this can't be good for Lycoris from a legal standpoint. Surely they can hire a graphic designer to come up with distinct, good looking icons?
Its hidden and out of the way but it is there. So far I haven't found a download mirror that isn't swamped. Oh well I got time and bandwidth to burn.
Since Corel left there has been a void, that even Mandrake doesn't fill. Lycoris Desktop may just fill that void. Lycoris has a very easy install, easier than Mandrake. The best part is the well thought out desktop. And like Corel, instead of the 50 text editors you usually get,you a slimed down selection. There is only one mp3 player, one browser etc. IMHO they have eliminated the confusion most users suffer when they first use linux. They have set up an environment where you just sit down and get your work done. You want to type a letter, simple use Kword. There is none of this "do I use kword,abiword,openoffice,etc" confusion.
While many linux experts will see this as a negative, you have to recognize that KISS is what no other linux distro has mastered since Corel left. I for one welcome this change. Pick the "best" desktop apps, and package them on a easy to use desktop. In this case I think the concept of less choice has worked.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
personally i'm very happy about this.
no, this is not THE linux for the masses, someone hasn't finally 'figured it out' but what it shows is that enough people are trying, enough to finally start to generate some significant interest. Or maybe it's that there's significant enough interest for companies to start trying to make a real business from desktop linux (yes, of course Mandrake and RH but unfortunately their idealism exempts them from what I mean).
either way it's a good sign, and while it may be a few years before there's any major desktop inroads at least we can see the seeds starting to grow a little...
I'm a Mandrake user so I'm probably just whining, but good grief, they've been doing this "desktop thing" for a while; how about a review of them?
But I've been looking over Lycoris for a while and I'm glad they're getting press. The more the merrier!
worth reading just to see an MSNBC reporter type those words!
I found it difficult to do anything with beyond whatever is installed with the OS.
Yeah, a lot of stuff is easy to use out of the box, but I couldn't add ANYTHING very easily at all.
does it support the Virge MX+MV chipset? Only Red Hat and Mandrake seem to out of the box, and I'm not l33t enough to get it working under Debian (yes, I've tried several things, including the drivers on s3graphics and from the linux laptop page).
Fighting the War on the War on Drugs.
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I installed Lycoris on an extra machine I had without a problem... until it turned out it didn't have drivers for my sound card. (Not a rare one either- ECS K7S5A motherboard onboard sound) Now what? Needs a kernel recompile which I don't have time to learn how to do and which most users wouldn't be able to learn even if they tried. If this were windows, however, I'd be able to just download the driver and point-and-click install it. As far as I know, Linux doesn't have anything like that. Until it does, it will be out of reach of the massess.
Doesn't this mean all Linux will do on the corporate and home desktop is be installed over and over and over and-- you get the idea?
Originally, I wanted the title to say "So, you were expecting something better from MSNBC?" but they wouldn't let me make it that long.
Actually, i think this "review" may be FUD from MS.
I have tried lycoris on 3 different machines, with different hardware. None of my installs have gone perfectly. All had some problems (Video card in one, sound in a second, and 802.11 card in the third.)
Lycoris really isn't ready for the "average" man with totally random hardware. Statistically, something _will_ fail, and then the user will be totally up the creek, since HW that misbehaves in linux is a major bitch to get running.
If I were paranoid, i'd say that the positive review issued by MSNBC was authored for two reaons --
1 - to show the judge that there is evidence of "competition" in the desktop OS space and
2 - to lead newbies on into thinking that a lycoris install will go smooth as glass. The probability is it won't, and there will be some user frustration. Which will impact negatively on the image of linux.
Looks like all the https 404 and the ftps are full. Joy, guess I'll have to wait a few days before test installing it on my lab rat box.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
Kidding of course. :^).
Hows their stock doing? Anyone else here thinking about making an investment?
I think its nice to see a successful desktop linux, hopefully Lindows will also be successful, add Mandrake and you have 3 competiting desktop OS's which means we will get good products.
What Lycoris has to consider however is how they will make money, Lindows i think is onto something with the warehouse idea, Mandrake is looking for community support which is really unstsble and not something i'd be quick to invest in.
Lindows looks like the most profitble, Lycoris however has OEM deals which impress me alot.
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someone is going to get fired over that.
either that, or promoted. that whole article was a sneaky bit of propoganda if you ask me...
"Now, however, there's a Linux that's as mindless to install as Microsoft's Windows."
sounds fishy...
Why... Buy a greater desk then, I guess. Things get complicated nowadays... When I was younger, I... what was I saying?
Does the reviewer know who he works for?
First he gives an accurate description of his experience installing Linux and names several positive and truthful attributes. Then he says
"...watch the BBC on RealPlayer"
He's asking for it.
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
I'm having a horrible time trying to pull up the article ... first time I've heard of MSNBC being slashdotted.
Redhat is Corperate Linux.
Redhat is good though.
For the Desktop the battle is between Lindows, Mandrake and Lycoris.
I believe Lindows will win because
A they have the most funding
B they have a business plan that makes sense
The software warehouse can easily bring in cash.
Mandrake has no stability even if they have cash
Lycoris seems to have no business plan at all but are getting OEM deals?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
that's a good intro, I almost fell off my chair...
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
These people just don't get it. Linux is obviously in a state of decline. Why does
slashdot keep on misleading people with these
biased articles?
Why not chess? Give them a game linux users actually play, solitaire is what people who cant use the internet properly play.
Even aol and yahoo offer chess, besides if you let them set up the modem first they can connect to a server and play chess with other people, chess can easily consume 30-40 minutes and would be perfect for long 7 dvd installs. hell add IM program like gaim or kopete in there and they may not even remember to exit the install
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I think some people really need to come down to earth about linux when it comes to the home market. The power of linux is not the GUI or any arguably "easy to use" features its the fact that its a great and free server. Many home and business users are still fighting their way throught the desktop model of PC use. As easy as Windows is, its still "high tech geek stuff" to, in my experience, 90+% of its users.
The reviwerer already had WindowsXP installed and working, so why does he need this? For the pure geez-whiz factor of I'm running this linux stuff? Probably. Even as an intro to linux the easy to use distros are really just training wheels that you won't take off until you meet, greet, and spend a lot of time learning the command line, services/daemons, etc.
Now for the pro's. A company that doesn't want to drop money on MS or Apple desktops that doesn't need certain commercial software that isn't and probably will never be available for Linux might just fall in love with this. Handing this to a teenager, adult, or grandma and telling them that they can't run their favorite apps anymore or even use AOL is simply self-defeating and neing starry-eyed about open source.
My viewpoint on the issue.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Desktops like KDE and to (and to a lesser extent, GNOME) copy Windows so shamelessly that they bring expectations, especially from novice users. The wild cut and paste in UNIX is enough to frustrate most novice users. The ripped off UI minus the "normal" (read: Windowsesque) behavior is enough to make most novices believe that Linux is nothing better than a second-rate windows. I've seen this first hand: my neighbor installs RedHat/KDE and it looks like Windows, and what does he do when the first misbehaving X app takes over half his screen (without revealing the "close" widget)? He realizes that he's in over his head, and goes back to Windows.
It's a terrible idea to out-Windows windows. If they don't carve out their own UI, Linux will always be playing catch-up on the desktop.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
How will lycoris compete with click n run?
How will mandrake compete with OEM contracts?
How will lindows compete with the linux community?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
...towards a demystified Linux for the masses. If memory serves me right, isn't Corel based on Debian? According to the article, Lycoris is based on Corel Linux. Which suggests apt-get is more than a possibility here.
If this gets people out of their Windozers and into Linux, at least superficially, this is A Good Thing (tm) and should be encouraged. If it is a rip on XP and XP is what the newbie is used to, then cool, they'll get acclimated quicker.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
He means time "Up on a shelf, unplugged".
Yes, Windows XP crashes less than Windows 98 SE, but it still crashes, long before 100 hours.
Why quibble about the look and feel of Lycoris? Linux is stable.
Seems like lost of people like this distro. Well I don't like it. It does many things that I went to linux to escape. Oh well if people like it, then use it. The same linux that can become that, can also become something I enjoy. As long as the gpl stands, I can be confident that all linux kind won't be hi-jacked by one company. I can use it how I want, and they use it how they want.
All we need now is an AOL client and I could easily give this to my mom to use. She's been harping on me to help her get a new computer, but she absolutely refuses to give up on AOL. Come on AOL! Release your client for Linux!
You know the best way of supporting these people is to go to their store and buy something. Get a developer version if you can spare the extra $10. Show them with your money that you support what they're doing. I just did.
They're definitely worth supporting, because they truly are trying to bring Linux to the masses, and making it easier for people to make the switch from Windows.
Disclaimer: I'm pro-choice in terms of OS -- but I do use Windows XP as my primary OS, I think its great, and that Microsoft has done an outstanding job on it. Anyone who disagrees should at least give it a spin before complaining about it.
I did a bit of searching, apparently it's named after some kind of plant, hence the "Flower Power" thing on their site. http://dmoz.org/Science/Biology/Flora_and_Fauna/Pl antae/Magnoliophyta/Liliopsida/Amaryllidaceae/Lyco ris/
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Click "7" Highly recommended for others to read this.
Can't hurt now can it?
Typical linux elitism
"You have to learn the commandline and thousands of commands"
Desktop User "I just want to get the web, play some games and burn some CDS"
"But the commandline gives you power to write scripts and manipulate programs in a more concise way!"
Desktop User "But I'm not a programmer, I just want to get on the web and have fun!!!!"
"Its more fun to play with commands and look like an elite linux haxor!!"
Desktop User "I just want a Desktop thats easy to use, linux sucks I'm going to try OSX"
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
oops... screwed up the previous post. But what I'm trying to say is, isn't this what the whole punitive phase of the Micro$oft trial is about? Getting M$ to UN-Bundle its middleware? Just read the list:
KDE 2.2 desktop, Mozilla (developmental Netscape)
Web browser, KOffice 1.1.1 office suite, KWord word processor, KSpread spreadsheet, KPresenter presentation software, 10 games (Solitaire, Tetris, Asteroids, etc.), Desktop/lx Update Wizard, Gimp 1.2.2 photo editor, Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.05, RealPlayer 8, Shockwave Flash, Java Runtime Environment 1.3, Kooka scanner program, Desktop/LX network browser, Desktop/LX install wizard, Desktop/LX remote access control, KIT AOL Instant Messenger client, XMMX MPEG/MP3/Ogg Vorbis player, KonCD CD recording software, KAddress Book, KOrganizer calendar, KDict Dictionary client, XawTV television viewer, KMail Email client, KFax fax viewer, KSCD CD player, Xine DVD.DIVX Player, KMail e-mail client, KNode news reader, KSnapshot screencapture, KNapster Napster client.
Hey, I love free software as much as the next guy (probably more, actually), but there's a lot of stuff there that I don't particularly like, starting with Realplayer.
granted, there might be an option to select what to install, but that was not noted on the review.
Still, overall, it looks very promising. I just might give it a try.
Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
Comment removed based on user account deletion
But Linux elites want to make things complicated so they feel special
./configure && make && make install
./program or commandname
If linux were easy to use, they wouldnt be linux haxor elites anymore would they?
So they force commandline down peoples throats
Look commandline does have its uses, like for programming, debugging code, compiling programs, even configurations.
But for everything else, a GUI is always better, why use commandline for Desktop stuff? I can see if you are running a server and need statistics which update consistantly, or you need a way to display information without slowing the machine down
But you dont need commandline to burn MP3s, chat, play quake, i mean come on
people even port QT to the commandline, and quake, and chat!! Seriously
The GUI is better at these things, the GUI is better for everyday use
I know the commands but i only use the commandline when I need to install something, its actually easier to install via the commandline than via graphical installer
cd programdir &&
installed
Then
perhaps a standard for for installing programs are needed but most of the time its easier than windows, until you have dependency problems
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Check out gaim or tik on freshmeat, they're both good IM clones...
It's not just the reviewers. It's the average user.
One of the problems with "Linux ruling the desktop" (if you're into that kind of thing) is that the people who make the software that runs on Linux either A) don't get that, or B) get it and don't care.
If you don't care about "Linux for the masses," feel free to forget about this article. If you're one of those who want "lusers" to use Linux, you should look into doing more "solitare during the install." The trick is, what does that mean for your project?
Another "Windows Killer" I bet you it's simple, but it's not simple enough untill they have a clippy to bug you, frequent crashes, and a higher expense than what it's actually worth. I've read numerous articles with bill gates talking about how microsoft only releases "quality" and that's why they are on top, but i think that it's the idiotic nature of the average person in this world that believes if it costs more it is naturally better. Not only to top that off, I love open source to death, but, look at the foothold that microsoft has in the economy. You think that overnight one of these Linux flavors will kill the giant and then work well? Look at all the software out there, do you go to a electronics store and see aisles and aisles of software for the unix based OS? No -- You'll see nothing but endless rows of software for windows. So here we have the new operating system, and all these people who left windows for unix..., like some say in these posts, they wont be able to survive, they arent used to a terminal, they are used to saving everything on their desktop and clicking the *.exe and they are done, they wouldnt be able to grasp unpacking the file etc. All these people have been brought up on double clicking and wizards. If it ever happened, it would have to include rotting of microsoft, it slowly fading away, which the dividing of the company may help, but then again i doubt that would help either. yet some of you will respond to what i say as "they can get get a binary of what you need on the internet!" But, that too, i doubt would be able for them to accomplish, because then, they have to learn how to compile / etc, and by then, they're lost in commands and readmes. Currently, with the market, dont expect microsoft dying soon. If anything, expect opensource to die first, because of all these politicians meddling with topics they don't understand, and will outlaw opensource deeming it dangerous due to anyones ability to modify it to exploit a computer. But since microsoft is a pro closesourced company, legislature wont even touch it. Self explanatory reasons, i think. But in the end, microsoft will turn into a giant bloated spyware passed off as a Operating System, and at the rate of Williams nosyness, OpenSource may have a fighting chance after all. I mean, all pedophiles use Unix, right?
paraphrase:
I booted the laptop into Windows XP Home, inserted the Lycoris CD, and rebooted. A few seconds later I was greeted with the install program's Welcome screen. I pressed the Start button. I was then asked to confirm what the installation had discovered: that I had a 2-button mouse and a standard keyboard with Windows keys. It knew my video card and monitor, asked me to confirm the monitor's screen resolution and asked where I wanted to install the OS.
At this point I stopped to itch my arm. I itched it lightly, but with enough pressure to relieve the scratchy sensation. I looked to my right, and there I saw my dilbert calendar, my coffee cup, and my mouse. I used my hand to hold onto the mouse and click the buttons to continue.
Hey GUY, don't tell us every lousy second of what you did just to lengthen the word count on your story! Just say, "I installed it, it was easy."
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
If it works well enough to be a Windows replacement, I would be more than willing to get it. However, I'll hold off until a few more reviews of it come out. It certainly beats having to pay Microsoft anywhere from $100-300 just for the operating system.
This
Lindows has alot of money, Michael Robertson is a billionare, and he has support from others, Lindows isnt going anywhere,
Its $99? $99 will be for access to warehouse and what not, remember Lindows is GPL which means they MUST release the code, just let your friend burn you a CD, You wont be able to log into the warehouse without your friends password but you'll have Lindows.
Who in their right mind (talking consumer, not geek here) would throw out a perfectly good copy and replace it with a pay Linux? No one. Linux will always appeal exclusively to geeks, no matter if anyone on
Word of mouth, the fact that while Lindows isnt free, by using it you get access to thousands of free programs which costs money to use under Windows,
Also add the fact that your windows programs will work in Lindows.
Lindows is a good OS with a good plan and if they market it correctly they can be as successful as redhat, right now it depends on how they market it.
Lindows is set to make their money on services like warehouse and click n run, I dont think they can stop people from distributing Lindows for cheaper or getting ISOs from friends.
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'Nuff said.
Linux will never become user-friendly because the people who create distros like this are _mocking_ user-friendliness. Do you think end-users won't be able to pick up on the mockingness of this? "Redmond Linux" or "Linux for the masses." They aren't providing anything _better_. All they are providing is discouragement for anyone wishing to use Linux. "You are too stupid to use actual Linux, so we give you this dumbed down Windows clone interface." "Good luck moron!" What a great way to win users. Er, did I say "user." I mean loser. Which is what the majority of Linux people think about Windows users anyhow.
Dijkstra Considered Dead
http://www.lindows.com Lindows.com
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
RedHat. rpm -e, rpm -U. Doesn't get much more simple than that (Although - it *could*, anyone want to spend a few minutes writing a filled-with-eye-candy gui for rpm? :)).
;)
:p
I was going to work on a truly 'user friendly' Linux distro. Then, I woke up and realized I've not the coding brutality within me to tackle something that large.
At any rate, here's some ideas:
Remove booting messages. They're stored in a log already. People who need that log should know where to find it. People who don't dislike seeing all kinds of weird letters and numbers, some of which look like error messages when they're not. Could use a nice screen like the one where Enlightenment is starting up.. Percentage bar, then when complete, it slides away.
Easy customization of boot loaders. Woe to the newbie who plays with Lilo. (And I think even total newbies are scared of grub already.)
A new window manager/desktop environment. KDE's great, but Microsoft's OS is *NOT* user friendly. Enlightenment is sexy, but in a perpetual state of "Well, 17'll be out someday.." One simple thought here - double clicking is wrong. Anyone can emulate three buttons nowadays, there is NO need for double clicking. Double clicking, is in fact, one of the harder things for many new computer users to master. (I realize that some window managers can probably be customized to eliminate double clicking, but a new user shouldn't *have* to customize anything.)
Dancing Linus video included with every distribution. You know you want it.
Now, the number one feature that's needed to get people to use Linux: The Zealotry Filter. This would scan all net-enabled software and black out the text of ignorant morons who think Linux is the only solution, for everything.
As Homer Simpson shows us, the masses are not ready for Linux.
r e, I just tripled my productivity!"
Computer: "Press any key to continue."
Homer: "Where's the 'any' key? I see Esc, Citarl (Ctrl), and Pig Up (PgUp), but where's the Any key... All this complex computer hacking is making me thirsty, I think I'll order a tab."
Homer presses Tab. The computer beeps.
Homer (holding a cup in front of the disk drive): "Whoops, not now! The computer is starting up!"
Computer: "Vent radioactive gas?"
Homer: "N-O".
Homer types No.
Computer: "Venting prevents explosion."
Homer: "Then give me a Y...."
Homer pushes Y. Computer beeps.
Homer: "Hey, all I have to type in is Y!"
Marge comes in.
Homer: "Hey, Mrs. I-Don't-Find-My-Husband-Attractive-Sexually-Anymo
"...KMail Email client, KFax fax viewer, KSCD CD player, Xine DVD.DIVX Player, KMail e-mail client, KNode news reader..."
Now I can read my Email and my e-mail!
--
pants ahoy
Can this be an attempt to prove that linux is effective competition to windows to placate the judge ? seems weird that it's on an MS affiliated site.
I don't if it is up to date, but I'm checking it out anyway.
Linux is ready for the desktop, perhaps if you Gnome people stopped tryinng to copy Windows every move you'd have a Desktop GUI.
OEONE is easy to use, its not windows based, no one ever complained about it being hard.
The reason Linux is hard is because its trying to be Linux and Windows at the same time, when you let Linux be Linux and build the GUI around Linux's strengths, Linux becomes easy to use.
The only problem is the installer situation, once thats fixed I expect Linux to begin to dominate the Desktop.
Using a Flash based GUI could work fine for most people considering the CPU speed they have now.
Also directFB and other projects have ways of making the GUI better.
Lastly, you could use Mozilla and render the GUI using XUL and have something thats nicer than current Linux GUI.
Linux's problem is X, its that simple. X render is not powerful enough, or easier enough to use, if it takes years to be easy enough to use thats too late.
I dont see IBM, or Anyone funding improvements to Xrender, I dont see Gnome developers working on improving Xfree, I dont see Gnome developers even working on making things innovative, they are busy copying windows.
Theres nothing wrong with copying windows, but you can never copy windows better than Microsoft.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
They pay money for photoshop or steal it
Lindows will introduce millions of people to open source like they did with mp3s, and i think they can make a business if like with mp3s open source takes off and becomes mainstream, mp3.com made money off free mp3s!
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
What Lycoris does that none of the other Linux distros really do is limit your options (maybe some do but why nitpick). Contrary to the belief of Linux users in basements around the globe, this is not a bad thing. Lycoris does right where others have done wrong. Instead of giving the option of a billion different file managers and command line ftp clients they simplified the software package down to something manageable. One serious hurdle in a Linux installation is knowing what programs you want and which you don't want.
RedHat, SuSE, and Debian cater to the everything comes in a single box paradigm. This is great for the people who've used Linux before and have a feel for certain apps and thus choose to install them. Others have a feel for different apps and thus install those, this continues until there's a dozen dozen various installations of the same distribution. For people new to Linux this is wholly confusing, I've been using Linux for years and I still get confused when I've got six CDs full of stuff. I think Lycoris fits into a very nice niche of Linux users, ones who want to just turn something on and get work done. Like the tag line it seems like it could be very nice for general consumers as they'd be hard pressed to tell you what operating system was on their computer anyhow.
Hopefully the companies building beige box PCs bundling Linux will take note of Lycoris and give it a bit of a bigger install base and popularize it. RedHat is a good company but it seems like they're definitely going in a more corporate user direction which is of course fine, more power to them.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
..but it had to be said.
Why does "easy to use" seem to translate, almost precisely "looks exactly like windows"?
OS X, while not flawless, is living proof that the evolution of computer interaction is not over, can people PLEASE stop acting like the M$ desktop is the only way to make an interface?
I'm still waiting for the Linux distro for the asses.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Don't most articles dealing with MS, either positively or negatively, contain the standard disclaimer "note: MSNBC is a Microsoft/NBC joint venture" within the first two paragraphs? Why is this article different?
Based on the web site I've gotta say: I love it, but I'll never run it.
:)
:)
Seems they've done a great job replicating the Windows XP look-and-feel in Linux which should reduce the learning curve for new users. I was a "techie" in the Microsoft world and heaven knows Linux was a complete change for me. I couldn't figure out how to move a directory for weeks after switching!
However, for those who have donw some climbing on the learning curve it's probably a bad idea to run this distro. After all, why make Linux identical to Windows? I applaud their effort but for the geeks among us it's probably a step backwards. Good news is, I doubt we're their primary target market.
I bought my wife an IBM NetVista and Redmond Linux was the ONLY distro that detected the video card w/ the Flat screen monitor. (Mandrake 8.1 only had it in 800x600 with tweaking)
It's a VERY easy distro to use. It's NOT for power users. You are very limited in what you can do. They make it very hard to fuck up your system. It has a customized version of KDE (which is VERY good in my opinion). It's near impossible to add Gnome to the desktop. It uses Caldera RPM's so you can just grab them off of Caldera's site.The install was so easy, she did it herself. (She is not tech savvy). She did it while I was in the shower. I had to redo it so I could see for myself. I think it's an excellent distro for mom & dad. However, power Linux users will get frustrated by it's lack of choices. There are no servers installed (except sshd). Not even an ftp server, or Apache. (which is by design...Mom isn't supposed to be running a webserver on the machine she does her taxes on, ya know?) All in All, I give it 9 out of 10 for newbies, 4 out of 10 for veterans.
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
Monolinux is carrying a review of lycoris in 2 parts written by a corporate IT manager and looking at lycoris from a possible business desktop use, its a good read and less hype filled and believable than MSNBC's - i reccomend it.
PS it was posted yesterday as well - before MSNBC
http://www.monolinux.com/modules/news/
I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
Next time search for a good review that's thorough rather than linking to some half-baked MSNBC article.
n ame=News&file=article&sid=670&mode=thread&order=0& thold=0 n ame=News&file=article&sid=667&mode=thread&order=0& thold=0 4 -12-014-26-RV-DT 4 -12-005-26-NW-DT l e=article&sid=1856 l e=article&sid=1848 / 12/1740252 / 11/1459213
The best review out there isn't exactly a top-secret either, as is apparent below.
1] http://www.tuxreports.com/modules.php?op=modload&
2] http://www.tuxreports.com/modules.php?op=modload&
3] http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-0
4] http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-0
5] http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=News&fi
6] http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=News&fi
7] http://newsvac.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/04
8] http://newsvac.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/04
9] http://www.distrowatch.com/index.php
Thanks.
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
It seems the only information in a review of a linux distribution is how easy/hard it is it to install. Enough already! Linux isn't hard to install any more! There, done, let's move on!
I'm not a linux user, but I have dabbled with many of the newbie friendly distros (RedHat, Mandrake, Caldera, etc). And since the days of RedHat 6, I have had good luck installing every distro I've played with. My problems with using linux have always come after the install. Or, more specifically, when I try to install something else.
I really don't see the point in putting significant effort in improving the installation of the OS. Or in making the desktop more pretty or intuitive. Linux really isn't that hard to do stuff in, even for newbies.
But when it comes to downloading and installing other programs, the results vary wildly from program to program, at least in my experience. That's the most frustrating thing about linux for me. And I haven't had good luck with rpms, either.
What I'd really like to see is a distro that pours all its effort into making programs install easier. I don't need an interface that tries to clone windows. I don't need an install that plays games (though that is kinda cool). I just want to be able to go out on the web, grab some random programs, and be able to run them with only a reasonable amount of hassle.
- Jon
With linux as it is, as long as you have computer users who cant find the shutdown button and can't fathom the fact that the page their browser starts up on doesnt mean they cant go anywhere else, linux will quickly intimidate them. two solutions
1) dumb down Linux to windows standards
2) educate computer users
I'm in favor of a combination of these two, but more of the second option
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
But, is it REALLY better than Mandrake (or RedHat) for the end user in the long run?
Reguardless of the answer (I say No, Mandrake ROCKS, RedHat is Slick, and are desktop OS's now) you may say yes. Even still...
This is a company Mandrake (or Red Hat) should get a VC to finance the buyout of now for 2 reasons:
Lycoris looks almost exactly like Windows. That makes it easy. But it's a dangerous road to take.
Especially with Microsoft's recent efforts to make the Windows interface look more distinguished, it's not inconceivable that Microsoft will at some point start suing companies like Lycoris for trade dress violation.
It would be the ultimate irony for sure considering that Microsoft was itself the target of a look and feel lawsuit brought on it by Apple in the 80's. Sure, that suit was rightly dismissed. But of course back then, we didn't have things like the DMCA.
Microsoft doesn't just dominate technology in the narrow sense. They dominate a culture. It might be as dangerous to rely on Microsoft culture as to rely on Microsoft technology.
Pushin' 'n dealin', shovin' 'n stealin'
There seem to be a lot of comments about how this distracts from Linux's main vision on the distribution scene where you have everything -- literally -- but rather I see this as something very good and representing a wakeup from a dream world.
Basically, people don't want to have everything and anything. While it's true that a diverse selection of software packages, utilities, etc. has more of a chance to fit exactly what you need, people don't need exact solutions when it comes to consumer markets. In fact, most people don't even need customized solutions at all.
This can explain why Linux does so good in the server and critical markets where 100% fitting solutions are required, and at the same time it explains why Linux isn't growing at exponentional rates into consumer markets like some though it would.
That's why there is only one dominant Office suite for Windows, and why consumers tend to side with Microsoft in terms of things having integrated components such as web browsers and media players. It's just easier. No one really cares what software they're using as long as it gets the job done.
People outside the IT field don't have time to sit down and go through a dozen or more programs for a single task -- like playing a video file. In today's instant gratification society, people demand point and click usability. There's no time to compile the latest SDL release and then find a media player, compile it, configure it, etc. Kernel compilations for the regular user are defiantly out of the question unless some amazing new ease of use feature is developed in the future.
This is why a lot of Linux distributions haven't done so well with the consumer. You can throw as many CD's and as many free (as in beer and speech) solutions, programs, libraries, and development environments you want at the consumer and watch as they turn blindly to the technically inferior, monopolistic offering that also happens to be proprietary and not free.
This situation is mainly the product of the Linux enthusiast's personality. Most geeks are by nature introverted and withdrawn from society to some extent (myself included) and rarely can see the big picture of what the general public might think about Linux when it's billed as a competitor for Windows. People don't care about how architecturally sound a solution is or the kind of characteristics programmers look for. That's why programmers make poor business people and business people make poor programmers. See the dot com chapter for more examples of this.
Software has and will for probably some time be a business of how fast can you get something done, how cheaply, does it work, and will people buy it. Besides that, you can do whatever you want but will be only be useable fodder for a selective few -- a minority who choose to spend hours laboring over configuration and setup for even the most mundane tasks. Anyone who has ever worked in user level support can attest to the fact users want things and they want them NOW.
This may come as a big fat epiphany to the Linux world who hope to mirror Bill Gates' vision with an open source solution, but it's how it is. You can't change society no matter how hard you try. So now it's about how we can work around society. Lycoris seems a logical evolution as other distributions have failed (getting saved by customer charity doesn't count here).
But instead of having a closed-source monopoly, we are at a risk of having the same but open source with whatever distributor ends up becoming successful.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
I read it and it seems like it might be good, but I am SICK AND TIRED of every damn company saying THIS IS IT, THE LINUX DISTRO FOR THE MASSES!!!
I will belive it when I see it coming installed standard on gateway and Dells. and I mean STANDARD not "I must beg and plead to have it installed for me"
god Damn it, I am in a bad fucking mood.....blah I'm goin to get drunk...
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
I've only been using Linux for a year or so. I installed Lycoris on a work PC just to try it out, and was very impressed. I could see where anyone with some Windows experience could get used to that distro pretty quickly.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
LONG LIVE GENTOO, SORCERER, SLACKWARE, CRUX, and my personal fave, DEBIAN!
p.s. who really gives a flying F anyway...next thing we'll see a 'coke' commercial with the f'ing penguin...at which time, i will open my 2nd floor apartment window and plunge onto the cement below...singing 'we are the world we are the children' as fast as i can on the way down...
So (the alleged) PhysicsGenius sez:
"...point-n-drool API." & "I guess that's the downside of Open Source. You can't make everyone learn the CLI like they should. *sigh*"
Proof, yet again, that we urgently need a NEW moderation label added to "flamebait", "troll", "offtopic", etc.
That label would be: "Linux Bigot"
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
Is a good thing. Unfortunately, we're still at least several years away from this - this is how people interact with computers now. I just hope "we" get there first.
Gimp and Photoshop are the same thing to a guy who makes graphics in his spare time or for his homepage.
The diffrence between gimp and photoshop is only noticed by qualified graphics professionals
I dont know the diffrence between gimp and photoshop, they bboth do the same thing in my mind.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
You cannot make an error, its case sensetive, etc etc
Commandline is faster for commands you only run once in a great while likee installing or configuring something
but when you have to type the same commands over and over you will make typos and you'll be pissed when bash doesnt understand
Its much faster to click a button than type
licq -chat -msgusr 2302032 -msg hello how are you -spellcheck -sendmsg
Please, if you think thats easier than just clicking their icon, typingg the msg, and hitting enter, i guess you must have quick fingers and you never once make a typo.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Well then, why dont you email this idea to mandrake, lindows and others
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
now lube it and put it in my ass, but start slow
Ok being the paranoid scitzo I am.
How soon before we learn that Lycoris is funded by M$?
Check out his posting history. He has about 20 posts on this article, nearly all of which are completely pointless. This guy doesn't even deserve the +1 bonus.
P.S. Please learn how to use correct capitalization, as well as apostrophes.
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Unable to select database
yeah, Really.
A linux as 'mindless' to install as Windows? Nope, WIndows is the ultimate mindless install. Most people never ever install Windows from a CD, it comes on their computers... for free, many people seem to think (ha). Even worse, some people seem to think windows IS a computer, like all have it built in or something.
Easy to install, or not - Installability isn't whats holding Linux back. It's this entrenched, filthy rich, paranoid, aggresive monopoly thats the problem.
Juln
remember that the apple team has been doing GUI's for almost 20 years, a little more than microsoft.
kde has been around for about 4
I was pretty dissapointed. I admit it was pretty simple to use and to troubleshoot. It really doesn't have much for functionality. All the cool sutff is hidden like in XP. I find it annoying.
I have learned everything I know practically from reading. I PREFER it that way. I remember the first time I used a REAL computer, was back in 82 or so. I was 12 at the time, and I went to the local University. They were running VMS/VAX. I sat down and was in awe. I asked the guy behind the counter for the manuals. He laughed and handed me a stack of papers. I took them home and came back a couple of days later..that's how I learned to destroy systems. Not to be malicious. I followed the instructions EXACTLY, yet it seemed the admins did not! Who would guess a 12 yr old twerp was poking thru a Universities files? Giving me the manual was the best thing they could have done. And, how else was one going to learn 8-bit Assembler on the Commodore? I bought this thick manual on Assembler and Machine code for the Commodore.That was the only way. You had no one to turn to. While all my friends were playing Castle Wolfenstein (the ORIGINAL) and Zork, I was hacking away in Assembler and making a BBS. By READING the fscking manual. I learn quicker with a book/manual than sitting in a class for 6 months.However, I learned BASIC so well, that was what caused me problems when the OOP world came in. I still dont' get OOP. I'm a procedural guy. (Fortran, Pascal, C, Assembler, Perl, etc). :)
I've been trying on and off for almost 4 years to get good in Java. I can't. Until I realized you can't just sit down and start typing. You have to make a plan. Screw that! That's no fun!
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
You gotta like this. An article in a mainstream e-rag gushing about how easy it is to install Linux.
And it's got everything an average user could want in terms of software, including browser, email, IM, photo editor, video and mp3 players, games, even an office suite -- something that MS hasn't even got around to incorporating into the OS! It even includes a KNapster file sharing client. Bet you don't get anything like that with XP. It will even delete your old copy of Windows for you. (How convenient.)
On top of that all, you can download it for free, or pay less than $50 for a CD and support. Or you can buy a machine with it pre-installed for less than $500.
This should perk up the interest of Joe Average computer user.
Ironically, this article is on a website co-owned by MS.
Seriously though, I have been noticing lately that there has been a general growing awareness of Linux among the "masses". Case in point: a friend of mine just got her first home computer last week. It has WindowsXP, but she isn't particularly pleased with it. She told me she would have liked to have gotten a Linux computer but she needed Windows in order to be compatible with software she used at work.
Trickster Coyote
Illusions are real. Reality is an illusion.
Ideology is for ideots.
That's their target, so easy to use does not mean easy to learn or easy to retrain, it means easy to switch out from under over the weekend and have as little fuss as possible from the users who don't give a crap about M$ being a monopoly and evil because they have a stupid shipping clerk job to do and JUST WANT NO HASSLE!!!
:-)
Infuriate left and right
we urgently need a NEW moderation label added to "flamebait", "troll", "offtopic", etc. That label would be: "Linux Bigot"
Why a new label? "Flamebait" or "Troll" fits that type of comment just fine.
Lycoris seems to be just what the doctor ordered: a chance to experience the power of Linux without having to turn into a system administrator just for the privilege. Let's face it folks: 98% of the computer-using population could care less what runs under the bonnet. They don't want to have to twiddle obscure radio-button options, nor choose amongst 50 different window managers and 200 file managers. They simply want to get work done. Whilst we geeks may bemoan the lack of options and curse Lycoris because we can't eke 2% greater speed out of it, most people simply DON'T CARE about the technical minutiae. They'd be glad to be relieved of Microsoft's increasingly more onerous licencing restrictions and higher prices. And as always, if you don't like the Lycoris distro, don't run it! Run SuSE, or Debian, or Mandrake, or ....
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
The weakness with Linux today isn't ease of install - hell, Redhat has been trivial to install for at least a couple of versions now, even on the weirdest hardware Joe "Dude, You're Gettin' a Dell" Sixpack is likely to have.
Installation is ALREADY pretty brain dead, even to the most clueless newbie. At most, they're looking at a 5 minute call to their vendor / friend / LUG / 7-year old neighbor.
The trouble comes when they want to run the stupid elf bowling program some cow orker sends to them. Or when they want to free up some drive space. Or when they want to install a game. Or install ANY new software via four to six clicks of a mouse button.
Put the creative energy in the right direction, and Linux WILL win. This isn't it. This is the road more travelled.
-l
This is NOT new. Lycoris's installer is RLIZARD, which means Redmond Linux Wizard. LIZARD was created by Caldera in 1997 I think. I got their distro at the Linux trade show in NYC. Blew AWAY anythng Redhat could have done. The installer is nothing new. It's a carbon copy of caldera. DOwn to the icons! Where Lycoris shines is the desktop! Screw their installer!
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
We have different usage patterns. I'm generally working at the limit of memory, maybe 20 or 30 instances of IE sometimes. The failures seem to occur when memory is full and beginning to spill over to disk. The failures do not seem to be program-dependent. Mozilla and Opera work as well.
The best Matrox drivers are still buggy, apparently, giving blue-screen crashes. Logitech does not have a working driver for Win XP. I've documented 12 different bugs in the command line interface (DOS).
Sometimes Win XP doesn't crash, but gets squirrelly. The only fix is to re-boot.
I'm testing with Intel motherboards, Intel processors, Crucial memory, Plextor CD burners, Western Digital hard drives, the best name-brand hardware.
For the fact that instead of calling me up every day, and me having to drive 100 miles out there once a month and have to waste an hour of my time defragging or installing Bonzi Buddy for her, I can now just ssh in and do everything there. I even put icons on her desktop like "Click ME for MAIL!!!", "Click ME for Word!". :) She's actually spreading the word about how she has no problems. She has SOME, but I ssh in twice a week and detele all the NEW FILE.txt and NEW FOLDER 79 in her home directory :)
Now she thinks she's a guru
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
Here's how /usr/src/linux
cd
make xconfig
This starts the GUI
check EVERY Checkbox. make everythign a module. Or read what the trusty help box says ("if you don't know what a FooPlaster X is, you cna leave this alone")
Then click save configuration..it tells you to type : make depend; make modules; make linux
then type make install
If you're using a modern distro, you can set up the new kernel using GUI tools
Reboot, choose your new kernel, and you're in heaven
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
just type:
apt-get install [PACKAGE_NAME]
answer zero or maybe more configuration questions, and you're done.
If you prefer pointy-clicky things, there are several that allow you to acheive the same result with a few mouse clicks.
Debian: GNU/Linux done the Linux way
There is no reason why a text interface should be challenging to people. It's no more difficult to use a text interface than to drive a stick shift or program a VCR...
damn, I think I just defeated my own argument.
It comes bundled with *free* software. Whereas with windows they are making you pay for things you dont want/need.
"She did it while I was in the shower. I had to redo it so I could see for myself."
Im sorry but the post was written in a funny tone.
Someone set up us the Linux
Maybe some articles on Linux in the enterprise, or writeups of Linux games. How about having O'Reilly provide an online book that is only available during the install process eh?? (they already provide a free chapter online anyway).
You could introduce people to new powerful/interesting/fun things and do something useful with the attention span. Even, you could have a content service that comes up when any installer runs and you can pick up where you left off.
You might even be able to sponsor the software you are installing with some paid-for information maybe.
Heck I think most /. peeps would use it as well. Boots up lightweight Mozilla and email client in 2 seconds from FPGA/whatever_firmware so you can check /. every few minutes without having to go down to the basement or having your boss monitor/censor/log your emails. Use bluetooth/WiFi to quickly seize control of your workplace monitor away from your office desktop to check /. every few minutes. Switch off the WiFi and the desktop's screen returns.
If you don't have a desktop, no problem just use the handheld by itself and connect it to the Internet... 3G or GPRS or something... Whoa, so 3G does have a use. Cool.
A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
People -- even developers, geeks, and related species -- use computers to accompish some purpose. A small minority of those users will have a primary interest in the tool itself. But, everyone else will just want the tool to be fast and easy. Why should computers and software be any different?
The open source community would be better off trying to build easy software that allows users to do something they want to do and that MS software doesn't let them do. Stop building software for yourself. Get out and talk to some people. Watch what they do. Don't waste time and energy trying to build the interface that replaces the hardware-driven mouse and GUI (There is only so much you can do with a keyboard, a pointing device, and a two-dimensional work surface.)
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
'nuff said.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
There's a reason why it's so much like Lizard... It's not a copy of Lizard: it IS Lizard. Joe Cheek et al just took Caldera's installer, made a few very minor tweaks (like removing a few stages and twiddling with a few graphic files), then they called it RLizard.
This isn't just the installer, either. Lycoris' distro is built from OpenLinux. Sure, some other stuff was tweaked, but Lycoris at least USED to acknowledge that their distro is an altered version of OpenLinux.
I wish them all the luck in the world. Maybe they'll be the next Mandrake (taking someone else's distro, altering it, then making a name for themselves). I think the days of introducing new distros is long gone at least from a business perspective, but hey, that's just me. If they can pull it off, more power to 'em. I lost my lust for trying new distros a long time ago so I probably won't bother, but I guess there are still newbies out there who want to try Linux and think that a simple installation is all that matters.
Personally, after Linux is installed, I think that the distros are more alike than different. That's just me, though. An installation is done once, and then it's over and you have to actually use the system. Unless Lycoris has done some kind of magic that I don't already know about (after 10+ years of using Linux), something tells me the installed system will look like all the others. Dunno...
Again, I wish them luck. Debuting a distro after the Linux bubble has burst takes guts.
No matter what any body says. Linux is too geeky of an os for the gerneral public to use. Imagine your 7 year old son that just got a brand new joy stick trying to load in a kernel module. Granted modules have gotten a little bit simpler but i still dont think there ready for the masses.
No. It doesn't.
WinXP reminds me a lot of KDE, though, Mr. Reviewer.
I don't know who noticed yet, but essential parts of the XP Workspace are blatant rippofs of KDE and it's KontrolCenter.
And that Controlbar isn't a Micros~1 thing either.
Let alone the GUI.
It's astonishing how many people have come to think of Windows as a synonym for "operating system with graphical user interface". This actually could be the death of that windows trademark in the USA - coming to think of it.
On the other hand it's time for a freak like me to notice that the world by now actually has a substancial amount of people who use a PC but can't really even tell a CPU from a network adapter.
Gues we gotta go back to helping them along when they come to us for help.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Advertise your version as able to connect as a Novell Netware Client. (And, of course, set it up to do this.)
... shudder!) Unless AbiWord decides to be a more full-featured word processor. Right now it's a lot more stable than KWord, but it doesn't do enough.
Until this happens it's a difficult sell. I can't find a single distribution that is coming out and claiming that it can connect to Novell Netware, though Red Hat, at least, can do this. But it's a hand-work setup instead of a Wizard, and it's not advertised. So I can't get people at work to take this seriously. (You figure! Perhaps it's just an excuse, but if I can get rid of enough excuses...)
I have hopes that the next version of KWord will be good enough that I can recommend it. Gnumeric and KSpread are already good enough for me, but I don't know how their macro languages stack up. Anyone seen any reviews? (I'm not a heavy spreadsheet user, so I can't really evaluate them.)
If KWord-the-next isn't good enough, then I'll have to spring for Star Office (Open Office works well on Windows, but on Linux
I don't suppose that anyone knows of any Linux trip modeling software? Sort of like TranPlan? Or Journey-to-work modeling? That wouldn't be a problem, but the consultants (no longer reachable) kept the source code to one of the central modules.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The point is not to limit the options, but rather the defaults. There actually are arguments to me made for that choice. And it's been done before, actually even choosing between, say, debs and rpms is a limiting of the defaults. But with alien available its not a limit of the options.
...)
If one thinks about it, there are no distributions that don't limit the defaults in some place or other. It's sort of necessary. (Though possibly SlackWare or Gentoo
I suppose that this is a nit-pick, but to my mind it's an important one. If you say "limit your options" you may know what you mean, but others may misconstrue it, wilfully or not. Limit your defaults is more appropriate, even if a less familiar phraseology. It's more accurate in a literal sense, and it's more difficult to propagandize against.
As a side note, the Lycoris site is specific in saying that one could add SRPMs via the rebuild option. (It's based upon an older distribution, so they didn't really recommend adding binary RPMs.) It's only the supplied disks that have a stripped down distribution on them.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Personally I vastly prefer the X way to the MS way that I have to use at work (Win 2000). MS makes you type needless characters to get any pasting done -- it's slow and painful. I want to just select, point, click the way I can under X. If anything, I want a utility under Windows that can emulate this, rather than Linux apps that imitate the painful MS way.
if any distribution has the chance to change the desktop world then it' s mandrake. it is at least as easy to use as lycoris and it has its own - goofey - style. the perfect os for all those people who prefer google or maybe yahoo over boring msn.
lycoris seems to be just another me too project. if i want windows, give me billy' s real thing.
OK, OK...read closer through Lycoris' site and saw that yes, Lycoris is based on Caldera. However, the MSNBC article suggested it was based on Corel Linux, which if memory serves me right is based on Debian.
set Stacy Rowe mode: ON
Sorry!
set Stacy Rowe mode: OFF
Ms. Geek
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
They have to learn all that CLI crap,
Are all the netscape plugins pre-loaded & configured by default?
It sucks, but it is kind of pretty. Seriously, very little of the default install actualy worked without problems. Maybe it is the simple fact that KDE seems to hate me (it's mutual) or "easy to use" distros are too difficult for me to use but Lycoris lasted less than a day on my box. Two word summary of my experience? Total Garbage.
Tetris was on Open Linux 2.3. Pac-Man was on Open Linux 2.4.
Granted, it would then lack the Trackpoint (IMO one of the things that makes Thinkpads great), but for $150 more you can get far, far more computer.
Not that this is the only choice, but for $799 (at least, that's what I paid at Fry's in Austin, and I have seen this price online elsewhere) you can get a Toshiba Satellite 1005-S157 (and some related models which I suppose vary by zilch internally) with:
- Gighertz Celeron
- 256 Megs of memory, I think it takes up to a gig
- 14.1" screen (1024 x768)
- three USB ports
- DVD drive
Shortcomings:
Little else built in: No ethernet, modem is Winmodem only, no 802.11, no firewire. NiCD battery, not Lithium Ion. (Huh?!) However, it runs Linux great (It takes XFree 4.2 to use X though -- Mandrake 8.2 works), and I already had PCMCIA cards -- both an 802.11 card and a modem / ethernet combo, so I didn't have to pay any more. And the TP600 doesn't have 802.11 either (I think it has a modem and ethernet though, right?), so you'd be in the same boat.
There are some similar quite-good (looking) low-end laptops from HP.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Comment removed based on user account deletion
As an end user, I definatly prefer OSX over any Linux distro. Its easy to use, powerful, and best of all.. the interface is amazing. KDE, even in its latest stages still looks like an amatur piece of trash made by some 9th grader. Flame me all you want, but Aqua is leagues above that. Not to mention the support by 3rd parties. Office... Photoshop 7 and Illustrator.. truely amazing. Oh and best of all, OSX is powered by BSD which in many people's eyes is the real UNIX core. I'll take BSD over Linux anyday.
i dont really consider lycoris to be production quality.
when i installed it, i selected my monitor model and 1200x1024 (i think) resolution. after the install finished and kde started, i had a dark line running down the left side of my screen. i had to reinstall and select a generic monitor to get it to look right.
once i got it installed, it was pretty slick but a bit quirky..
when you put a cd in, it pops up konqueror and lets your browse the cd.. rock on.. i love that. but that started goofing up after i left the computer on for 2 or 3 days.. (i think i mounted a cd at the command-line.. perhaps that's what did it) everything was very easy.. the task-oriented menus rocked. all the mime types were set up correctly.. very cool.
i switched to mandrake 8.2 after a week because i had to reboot my computer a few times (windows syndrome) to fix a few problems i was having (like the cd automounting).. sure, i could have spent a few days tracking the problems down and fixing them without rebooting, but i'm too lazy to learn the lycoris way of doing things..
i didnt have much luck with the built-in smb stuff, either.. i mean, sure, it browsed my windows computers easily enough, but try to drag and drop 10 or 11 mp3s at a time from your remote windows box to a folder on your linux box.. no dice (at least, *i* had bad luck with it).. but perhaps that's just a problem with kde..
i'd like to switch back to lycoris once it becomes more reliable and functional. the ISOs on their ftp site are beta quality in my opinion..
I've seen GIS guys laboriously organizing data and repetitively doing the same operations. I point out that if they script those operations, they can do them in a tenth fo the time, charge the customer half as much and make five times a much per unit hour of labor.
The reaction I get is, that would be nice, but I'm muddling through OK now.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Joseph Cheek will be a keynote speaker at the Bellingham Linux User Group's Linux Fest 2002 on Saturday, April 20th in Bellingham, Washington. Also appearing as a keynote speaker will be Illiad, creator of the comic strip 'User Friendly'. For more info, go to:
p ic =speakers
http://www.blug.org/linuxfest2002/active.dxp?to
Joseph Cheek will be appearing as a keynote speaker at the Bellingham Linux User Group's Linux Fest 2002 on saturday, April 20th in Bellingham Washington. Also appearing as a keynote speaker will be Illiad, creator of the 'User Friendly' comic strip. For more info, go to:
http://www.blug.org/linuxfest2002/index.html
When I first read the first review here about the ease to use of Lycoris I got very interested to implement it on my job.
:) So the installation was done nicely and quick. Looked nice, except for the problem of not being able to choose the packages. But then there was the final thing about it.. When finished the installation it didn't reboot, but rather show me a login screen on KDE. I logged on try one of the apps, crashed, try a couple more, crashed both...
:)
The first thing I did was try to intall it on an old PII 266 64MB RAM, the installation was easy but long, then when I try it it was easy, I like the Network Neighborhood-like thing... but in general, my experience was a really slow system... and plus, I would have like to chose the packages that I want to install... Everytime I opened Konqueror was a damn slow thing and had to wait for about a minute for it to be usable (then another 30 secs. to go to a directory)
I thought it might have been the computer was an old one taken from a lab (I work on a University) so I try to install it on a newer one but I had trouble to boot the cd on that one.. I try on another one of the same configuration, same problem, so I thought it might be some wired problems with the bios or something (didn't went any deep on that).
So finally I tried on my box at home (It had to work on that one
And that was the end of me using lycoris, shut it down and got back to Debian. From my experience I would say that is a distribution that has a nice interface, but seems like needs to mature a lot still. It makes easy for the average user to work with it, but estability problems on its apps are still needing a lot of work.
I wouldn't recomend it for production yet, development is needed on it, so I guess as testers we could give a hand to the people at Redmon. I guess that ease of use sometimes sacrifies other powerfull features on a system... but what the hell, let's work on it
What's the deal with them being in Redmond of all places? Anyone going to trust that implicity, without checking it out? Anyone remember Developers to Fight Fish and all that?
I work for a MAJOR school district here in NJ (over 25K students in HS alone).
We want to cut licensing costs (though we are negotiating a new education licensing deal with redmond as of this writting that will give us a single point yearly fee that is pretty reasonable, less than what we spend now, and allows all staffers to have copies too) and have looked really hard at various Linux distros.
Lycoris was one, as was RedHat and and a few others. We put together six test labs and 'forced' teachers/staff and students at 2nd grade, 7th grade, and 11th grade to only use those systems. The installs are easy enough for those so inclined on our IT/IS staff, but the field techs really had a hard time and we broke down to some hardware based images in the end for deployment. Lots of concepts and terminology and plain old differences that are just too hard to overcome with out months or years of experience on their parts... can't blame them really.
Anyway, the 2nd graders and all staffers had the hardest time, followed closely by the 11th graders. The 7th graders seemed to pick it right up, no matter the distro system. Staffers, even younger teachers, just could not get the systems to work, and in the end we had to keep an IS person on hand daily in the rooms to just keep things flowing... this after 10 hours of summer training. Several even refused and went to the union or bringing in their own laptops to do their work and run the MultiMedia systems int he lab!
The 2nd graders shocked myself and the senior IT/IS folks though... we thought that their lack of exposure to MS systems at that age would allow them to pick it right up the easiest... not hardly though. They just could not get hardly anything to work, and we were really hampered trying to get simple lab education software to work even under WINE. It was a disaster!!!
The funny thing is that we use *nix mainframes for grade and info tracking through out the district (terminal and emu terms), as well as about 1/4 of our over 100 servers (especially web servers, though they run MS FP2K extensions).
This pilot program made the news nationally in education circles when announced last year, and several smaller districts from out West sent in experienced staffers to help us set up and then observe... they had linux on their desktops themselves as budget saving moves, but they had the same problems we stumbled into.
In my assessement, no version of Linux is ready for the average user at home or work yet. Good stuff on the back end, a nightmare in the offing for everything else.
Who can we thank? Why, you of course. The 'linux community' can't settle into one or two key deployments and distros that are roundly supported and actually work on today's modern hardware (hell, I have to have hardware on my linux box that is at least a year old in order to get solid driver performance... and I LOVE linux at home). The fratricidal and dissasociated nature of the community itself, lacking direction and drive on a few key goals is killing it.
Hell, our staff likes Macs (OS 9 anyway) much better than the linux boxes they have been exposed too, and we here in the IT department HATE macs.
Oh well...
Lycoris is getting a lot of praise for trying to be just like Windows, because that supposedly will make Linux very appealing to normal Windows users. But if it acts like Windows, and it looks like Windows, then it might as well just be Windows. Why would anyone want to pay for a new operating system that works just like the one that they got for free? (Yes, Windows is included with every computer, and you can't stop it.) And why on top of that would they want their new Windows to have stupid little quirks like never-ending rpm dependencies, and the command-line? That's not very Windows-like! In Windows, we download our programs in self-extracting executables. In Windows, drives have letters, and we never have to "mount" anything. This new Windows sure is crazy!
You can see where I am gong with this. The best way to introduce Linux to a new user is to clearly explain that it is not Windows. It is a command-line operating system, and if you want to be a Linux user, you had better learn those commands, or you are toast. That's the truth, kids. If you want the power of Linux, you have to understand it. Read a book on it. Linux For Dummies exists, and it's great. So is O'Reilly's Running Linux. Once you understand the operating system, you can install it yourself. I prefer Gentoo, since it's amazingly easy to install new software. Above all, it's the distribution that lets Linux be Linux.
Don't be fooled, Linux isn't just another Windows. It's comes from another world. If you want to really learn (Yes, users can learn. Isn't that amazing?) a superior operating system, go ahead. I think you will be pleased with the amazing selection of completely free software, and the control you will have over your computer. Otherwise, stick with what you know.
Lycoris? Linux is never going to succeed as a popular desktop OS as long as it uses names that sound like diseases.
Actually I think they are based on Caldera.
All partitions automount.
You don't have to configure the file browser or install & configure codecs n plugins, etc.
left Click a Divx AVI in Konq & it automatically opens in Xine (or something) & just works
Open the browser onto a website that has 3 flash menus or animation & they just work. You don't get 3 windows poping on Netscape's plugin suggest you click a link to download a flash plugin & you click it & it downloads onto the computer heavens knows where & doesn't do anything.
Well, the install is really, really easy and I was glad to see CUPS in there with my printer automatically being set up, but my Netgear FA310TX (tulip) and Adaptec 1522 (aha152x) were not detected and would not show for any reason whatsoever. If anyone has any tips, email me and give me a clue in the right direction.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
Magius_AR
The CLI and GUI camps can coexist. He just has it in for people who think that all Linux users must learn to use the command line well. I agree with him completely. Command Line is great and much faster in the hands of a skilled user, but if we require all linux newbies to learn it, we aren't going to get many converts.
Market reasons. No matter what you say, not nearly enough people would buy Photoshop for Linux.
Besides, Adobe has many interests on software patents and closed source, so they wont even acknowledge that Linux exists.
No sig for the moment.
Sadly enough, I agree with most of your post
No sig for the moment.
Sure you do! It's there (in a myriad of different forms) sharing your files to the rest of the world and every couple of weeks MS release critical updates to turn it off.It even includes a KNapster file sharing client. Bet you don't get anything like that with XP.
--
"we live in a post-ideological world..." - Billy Bragg.