Special Education students are segregated, sometimes to sections of buildings, but sometimes to their own buildings (depends on the needs, district set-up, if there's an intermediate school district involved which the district gets services through, etc). In my county, the school districts negotiated through their intermediate school district to split up and share the special ed students by their needs, so nearly all the students with deafness in the county go to one school, regardless of where they live in said county (and there's... 8+ school districts here), while the students with total blindness end up elsewhere, and the severe downs syndrome and behavioral problems elsewhere still, each place with its own staff of teachers and professionals trained to deal with those issues.
That's because most schools have neither the funds nor the facilities to have one-on-one aids for each of those groups, so they pool their money and do it effectively. If we had properly funded and staffed schools, there would be no issue here, and the students would be in a full-inclusion classroom (unless s/he was a threat to other students).
Secondly, the public schools are responsible for the safety of the students, while the students are at school, and in most states while travelling to or from school. There's a latin term for it that involves the word "parent".
This, well, this I agree with. But I'm not sure why they wouldn't be. If the student is on school grounds without the 'parent', or if the student is traveling in a school vehicle without a 'parent' who do you expect to be responsible for the health and well-being of the minor child? I assume you say this to further your next point.
Schools already segregate children with severe nut allergies to wings of buildings, or specific rooms. It's an easy argument to make that for the health of ALL students, the ones w/o vaccinations cannot be in the primary student population.
Do you have citations for the complete segregation of students with nut allergies? I will assume you mean at lunch, with separate tables. If the student has severe enough allergies, there may be no other way for him or her to eat safely - unless you wrap him or her in plastic, but I'm pretty sure that most kids these days still need oxygen.
In other words, if you are arguing that schools will be able to segregate based on vaccine/no-vaccine, I doubt it. From what I've seen, and I know, it's anecdotal, most parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated make the initial choice because of religious convictions. So, how long would a school get away with segregating based on what the parents would perceive as religious belief?
So your argument is that one company lied about the effectiveness of a vaccine, so all companies lie about what their vaccines really do? Good lord, that's convoluted - and there's a difference between a lie about effectiveness, and a cover-up that vaccines cause autism. But, let's play your game, and let's apply that argument to other parts of life. The people who make nutella led everyone to believe that their product was healthy, and it isn't. SO, I'll stop eating food altogether.
This also makes me chuckle:
They want to give infants shots to prevent sexually transmitted disease (one of the hepatitus versions). Sure, that would be bad if they got it, but I don't think my 2 year old is having sex yet!
You do realize that the point of immunizations is to prevent diseases, correct? Oh, and this:
Somethink like 80% of the cases of Whooping Cough are for vaccinated people
Do you care to cite that, or are we just to believe that you are a trained CDC professional?
That's exactly right. Every argument that is in the news right now, whether it's related to right to life/right to choose, gay marriage, the 1%, whatever it is. It's all related to "Fuck you people." I don't know when, or where that attitude came from, but it is e.v.e.r.y.w.h.e.r.e.
I think, quite honestly, that what we're going through now is because heavy investors got a small taste of victory in privatizing Russia, South America, Poland, the various middle eastern countries that got shafted, and Greece and other parts of Europe starting in the 70's and 80's, and moving in steadily stronger steps to today. I think that these heavy investors are hungry for the next cash cow - they tried Asia, and the Asian tigers shut their asses down, so who's next? USA, USA, USA. We're fat and happy, so why not break us for a profit? Why not 'shock' our economy back to health so they can win some more? ('They' doesn't equal some tin-foil hat amorphous blob, it equals heavy hitters in the telecommunications, chemical, food and plastics industry, along with institutions like the IMF and World Bank)
I genuinely believe that in the next 10 years or so, this talk of 'austerity measures' are going to revert back to what they used to be called 'shocks to the government to stimulate private economic growth'. I also believe that in the next 10 years, we're going to see this attitude that was developed in the US turn its teeth inward and start taking bites out of our country. I firmly believe that we will have more rampant unemployment for young folks - fuck them, right? - and the money will funnel faster to a few people. I don't believe that we're headed for a collapse, because if we fall, so do most others (or at least it won't help), but I do believe that we're headed for a lost generation of workers.
Because that's what the guy down the road said was our best option. I'm not the tech. side. I'm the governmental/cover our ass side, policies and procedures and all that.
What distances are we dealing with here?
Anywhere from less than 50 feet between houses to around 15 miles between houses, for a total straight line run of around 120-140 miles(ish). if we could cut across property, we could cut that in half, but most of our property is farm-land, and is theoretically subject to soil movement that could not justify the risk, or could not justify the future problems that we may run into (moving terraces, the inability to deep-soil plow/v-rip, etc).
Is there a demarc, or does the fiber just go right on by? What is the phone company using? What can they provide? Never underestimate the bandwidth of a shitload of twisted pair.
Lol, wut? No, seriously though, here's my ignorance showing. The character that is in the lead on assessing the technology for us, I have to assume, knows that answer. I do not. Not my specialty sadly. My specialty is keeping our butts covered when the telco or Uncle Sam come looking for our papers, either permits or greenbacks.
My local "geek co-op" looked at the plausibility of running fiber and hooking into the local fiber channel. (Super-extra-megawatt highspeed fiber connecting two of the nearest massive metropolitan areas runs through our community). Total bill? Just this side of 1.5Mil. For a community of 50 people. And that's almost entirely the man-hours, equipment needed, and BASIC fees to the telco that owns it. We didn't even factor in any permits or any other pop-up, bullshit permissions that the company could come up with.
The icing on the cake was that when we wanted to run water lines to a new house, we had to have a representative from the company that owns the fiber present while we unearthed it. His mere presence was so valuable to our job-site that we had the privilege of paying ~$5,000. I was pretty fucking excited about that.
That is easily the most ignorant statement I've seen on this site in quite some time.
We're not all locals that fuck our sister and sit around swilling moonshine. We have jobs. We run businesses. We communicate with the outside world. Some of us hold advanced degrees. Some of us, and this may be hard for you to understand, live out here because we enjoy peace and quiet. The stereotype of the no-shirt, no-shoes, bib-overall wearing banjo playing tobacco chewing yocal has been dead since the 50's. Please travel outside of your circle-jerk of friends every now and then.
It is inconvenient to have to pay out the teeth for anything close to high-speed, but that comes with the territory. Is it a shame that our 'high-speed' is just a basic lip-service given to us to grease wheels for whatever lucrative deal major telecommunications companies have attached to it? Absolutely, and we lose every time (unless we care to run $1.5Mil in fiber for a community of 50 people. . . ). Is it bullshit that vast swaths of the country are left behind technologically simply because of our location? My opinion is yes, but I've didn't live in the big ol' city too gosh-darn long, so maybe I just needs me some more of that there fancy book learnin'.
We have a use for high-speed internet. It's called commerce and communication. In other words, I'm not sure if you're a troll, or just ignorant.
I'm not certain why this is modded funny instead of insightful. We have been programmed by popular media and life in general to devalue privacy.
We've been taught that the only people who need privacy are terrorists or pedophiles.
So, why would anyone need to go through the trouble of reading our minds when we've been pretty well conditioned to just hand out our personal identifiers without thought?
It seems to me that if I need to know where you live, what your passwords are, and what you had for breakfast, I just make a NEW AND IMPROVEDSUPER FUNSOCIAL MEDIA POWERED GAME!!!
Knowledge with no understanding = Memorization. I can memorize the parts of the brain with no understanding of how they work. To do anything useful with the information you have to be able to apply it.
THIS. In a college English classroom, intro level classes, the first MONTH is spent explaining to the students what plagiarism is, and what it isn't.
I don't know where the attitude of "copy and paste != plagiarism" came from (I have theories see below if you want), but it is prevalent. If I had a dollar for each student who "just borrowed" a line or two from other papers or other sources, I wouldn't be a teacher anymore, I'd have a self-funded space program.
My theory about that attitude comes in the form of easy and quick = best. That, above all else is the attitude in today's US society. If it's easy, if it's quick, it must be good. What we're seeing is the disposable consumer culture translated into an educational setting. That is all my opinion and is not rooted in anything outside of my personal experience.
Yeah, that was my first question when reading about this thing. How are we going to protect something THAT big? I see two targets for this type of surveillance:
1. Use it only on military units who lack the ability to look up; or
2. Civilians.
As most humans have the same ability to tilt their heads backward, or, at the very least to move our eyes in a general upward direction, I believe that we can rule out the first option. So, why would our government need to watch civilians?
On a personal note, this idea seems absolutely ridiculous based on the current age that we live in. I would have loved to see the guy who brought that up in the initial meeting.
General: What's next for surveillance? Pee-on: Well, Sir, how about a blimp? *Cringes for the incoming backhand to the face* General: BRILLIANT!!! THEY'LL NEVER SEE IT COMING!!!
We're in the same boat. I use satellite with a latency of ~750ms. It sucks balls for on-line gaming, but for everything else, it's outstanding. Streaming movies/music, downloads, etc. You just can't on-line game. You do have to watch the bandwidth caps; they'll sneak those in on you. (luckily, my provider threatens the 15GB/mo. cap, but doesn't ever enforce it I think I'm at 850% of my allotted amount this month already).
That's what kills me. I was recently able to upgrade my internet at home from 1MB down to 12 MB down satellite internet (God bless living in the middle of no-where). The issue now is that the latency went from ~300ms to ~750ms. So, when my family says, "The Internet is slower now, go back" I rage quietly inside and continue downloading like a crazy person.
They only stopped because we had a careful talk about what a bigger, but longer tube would mean.
Isn't perception of power just as useful as actual power (or maybe even the same thing)? I don't have to punch you in the face to stop you from pissing me off if you believe that I will do it if you piss me off. Same sort of thing.
Your name tells me you may be trolling, but I'll bite.
Where can you show me the US government, right now, attempting the extermination of an entire race of people?
I have as much distrust of the federal government in me as the next guy, but the US !=Nazi Germany. That is hyperbole, and quite honestly is ridiculous.
That's exactly it. It's not that they can't see the difference, I'm betting most can. It's just that most people don't give two shits about optimizing their home theater experience. My brother in law gives me crap about my television and how it is set up incorrectly. I have to tell him every time that I just don't care.
(I'm going to make the next part up, but it makes sense) 75% of people use their television to waste time. 20% use it for background noise while they do something else (my group). I'm betting only 5% of people want to completely optimize their home entertainment experience.
It's just like everything else. There are those that know how to do it, and then there are the plebeian masses.
In my opinion, like most things, it all boils down to just another way to be exclusionary.
Didn't you know that you're not supposed to buck the new stereotypes? We can't stereotype black folks anymore, but we sure as hell can stereotype poor folks, or, even easier, people from small towns/rural areas.
Look, it's this simple: if you're born near a city, or move to a city, it means that you are smarter, faster, stronger, more ethical, more connected (that's true), and generally better than small town rubes.
For a decade now, I've been operating on the basis of "Do I need it? If not, do I want it? Can I justify spending money on it? And if not, is there a free-as-in-beer legal alternative available?"
The problem is that most people don't make it to this point. They only see that FREE FREE FREE FREE, and then use their morals against giant companies/for privacy/ anti-government, what-have-you, to justify their decision. A little bit of research will prove that for most things there is a legal, free version available. It might not be 100% what you want, but it'll be close, and it'll be great considering it's free.
DISCLAIMER: I do pirate things (games usually, or music) to TRY THEM. IF I like them, I BUY THEM. This is because there is no such thing as a good demo anymore.
Slashdot Mirror
Says the young person who took time to read this far down and respond. . . .
Special Education students are segregated, sometimes to sections of buildings, but sometimes to their own buildings (depends on the needs, district set-up, if there's an intermediate school district involved which the district gets services through, etc). In my county, the school districts negotiated through their intermediate school district to split up and share the special ed students by their needs, so nearly all the students with deafness in the county go to one school, regardless of where they live in said county (and there's... 8+ school districts here), while the students with total blindness end up elsewhere, and the severe downs syndrome and behavioral problems elsewhere still, each place with its own staff of teachers and professionals trained to deal with those issues.
That's because most schools have neither the funds nor the facilities to have one-on-one aids for each of those groups, so they pool their money and do it effectively. If we had properly funded and staffed schools, there would be no issue here, and the students would be in a full-inclusion classroom (unless s/he was a threat to other students).
Secondly, the public schools are responsible for the safety of the students, while the students are at school, and in most states while travelling to or from school. There's a latin term for it that involves the word "parent".
This, well, this I agree with. But I'm not sure why they wouldn't be. If the student is on school grounds without the 'parent', or if the student is traveling in a school vehicle without a 'parent' who do you expect to be responsible for the health and well-being of the minor child? I assume you say this to further your next point.
Schools already segregate children with severe nut allergies to wings of buildings, or specific rooms. It's an easy argument to make that for the health of ALL students, the ones w/o vaccinations cannot be in the primary student population.
Do you have citations for the complete segregation of students with nut allergies? I will assume you mean at lunch, with separate tables. If the student has severe enough allergies, there may be no other way for him or her to eat safely - unless you wrap him or her in plastic, but I'm pretty sure that most kids these days still need oxygen.
In other words, if you are arguing that schools will be able to segregate based on vaccine/no-vaccine, I doubt it. From what I've seen, and I know, it's anecdotal, most parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated make the initial choice because of religious convictions. So, how long would a school get away with segregating based on what the parents would perceive as religious belief?
So your argument is that one company lied about the effectiveness of a vaccine, so all companies lie about what their vaccines really do? Good lord, that's convoluted - and there's a difference between a lie about effectiveness, and a cover-up that vaccines cause autism. But, let's play your game, and let's apply that argument to other parts of life. The people who make nutella led everyone to believe that their product was healthy, and it isn't. SO, I'll stop eating food altogether.
This also makes me chuckle:
They want to give infants shots to prevent sexually transmitted disease (one of the hepatitus versions). Sure, that would be bad if they got it, but I don't think my 2 year old is having sex yet!
You do realize that the point of immunizations is to prevent diseases, correct? Oh, and this:
Somethink like 80% of the cases of Whooping Cough are for vaccinated people
Do you care to cite that, or are we just to believe that you are a trained CDC professional?
That's exactly right. Every argument that is in the news right now, whether it's related to right to life/right to choose, gay marriage, the 1%, whatever it is. It's all related to "Fuck you people." I don't know when, or where that attitude came from, but it is e.v.e.r.y.w.h.e.r.e.
I think, quite honestly, that what we're going through now is because heavy investors got a small taste of victory in privatizing Russia, South America, Poland, the various middle eastern countries that got shafted, and Greece and other parts of Europe starting in the 70's and 80's, and moving in steadily stronger steps to today. I think that these heavy investors are hungry for the next cash cow - they tried Asia, and the Asian tigers shut their asses down, so who's next? USA, USA, USA. We're fat and happy, so why not break us for a profit? Why not 'shock' our economy back to health so they can win some more? ('They' doesn't equal some tin-foil hat amorphous blob, it equals heavy hitters in the telecommunications, chemical, food and plastics industry, along with institutions like the IMF and World Bank)
I genuinely believe that in the next 10 years or so, this talk of 'austerity measures' are going to revert back to what they used to be called 'shocks to the government to stimulate private economic growth'. I also believe that in the next 10 years, we're going to see this attitude that was developed in the US turn its teeth inward and start taking bites out of our country. I firmly believe that we will have more rampant unemployment for young folks - fuck them, right? - and the money will funnel faster to a few people. I don't believe that we're headed for a collapse, because if we fall, so do most others (or at least it won't help), but I do believe that we're headed for a lost generation of workers.
WOW, that got off topic. Sorry.
If you don't like being out of range of good broadband, then MOVE.
And, targon, what do you suggest if everyone who lives in the country decides to move? You do realize where your food comes from, right?
Why run all fiber
Because that's what the guy down the road said was our best option. I'm not the tech. side. I'm the governmental/cover our ass side, policies and procedures and all that.
What distances are we dealing with here?
Anywhere from less than 50 feet between houses to around 15 miles between houses, for a total straight line run of around 120-140 miles(ish). if we could cut across property, we could cut that in half, but most of our property is farm-land, and is theoretically subject to soil movement that could not justify the risk, or could not justify the future problems that we may run into (moving terraces, the inability to deep-soil plow/v-rip, etc).
Is there a demarc, or does the fiber just go right on by? What is the phone company using? What can they provide? Never underestimate the bandwidth of a shitload of twisted pair.
Lol, wut? No, seriously though, here's my ignorance showing. The character that is in the lead on assessing the technology for us, I have to assume, knows that answer. I do not. Not my specialty sadly. My specialty is keeping our butts covered when the telco or Uncle Sam come looking for our papers, either permits or greenbacks.
My local "geek co-op" looked at the plausibility of running fiber and hooking into the local fiber channel. (Super-extra-megawatt highspeed fiber connecting two of the nearest massive metropolitan areas runs through our community). Total bill? Just this side of 1.5Mil. For a community of 50 people. And that's almost entirely the man-hours, equipment needed, and BASIC fees to the telco that owns it. We didn't even factor in any permits or any other pop-up, bullshit permissions that the company could come up with.
The icing on the cake was that when we wanted to run water lines to a new house, we had to have a representative from the company that owns the fiber present while we unearthed it. His mere presence was so valuable to our job-site that we had the privilege of paying ~$5,000. I was pretty fucking excited about that.
That is easily the most ignorant statement I've seen on this site in quite some time.
We're not all locals that fuck our sister and sit around swilling moonshine. We have jobs. We run businesses. We communicate with the outside world. Some of us hold advanced degrees. Some of us, and this may be hard for you to understand, live out here because we enjoy peace and quiet. The stereotype of the no-shirt, no-shoes, bib-overall wearing banjo playing tobacco chewing yocal has been dead since the 50's. Please travel outside of your circle-jerk of friends every now and then.
It is inconvenient to have to pay out the teeth for anything close to high-speed, but that comes with the territory. Is it a shame that our 'high-speed' is just a basic lip-service given to us to grease wheels for whatever lucrative deal major telecommunications companies have attached to it? Absolutely, and we lose every time (unless we care to run $1.5Mil in fiber for a community of 50 people. . . ). Is it bullshit that vast swaths of the country are left behind technologically simply because of our location? My opinion is yes, but I've didn't live in the big ol' city too gosh-darn long, so maybe I just needs me some more of that there fancy book learnin'.
We have a use for high-speed internet. It's called commerce and communication. In other words, I'm not sure if you're a troll, or just ignorant.
That is false. God Bless the internet.
Fun fact - less educated people tend to have more children, so really, this is evolution in action!
We've been taught that the only people who need privacy are terrorists or pedophiles.
So, why would anyone need to go through the trouble of reading our minds when we've been pretty well conditioned to just hand out our personal identifiers without thought?
It seems to me that if I need to know where you live, what your passwords are, and what you had for breakfast, I just make a NEW AND IMPROVED SUPER FUN SOCIAL MEDIA POWERED GAME!!!
Knowledge with no understanding = Memorization. I can memorize the parts of the brain with no understanding of how they work. To do anything useful with the information you have to be able to apply it.
THIS. In a college English classroom, intro level classes, the first MONTH is spent explaining to the students what plagiarism is, and what it isn't.
I don't know where the attitude of "copy and paste != plagiarism" came from (I have theories see below if you want), but it is prevalent. If I had a dollar for each student who "just borrowed" a line or two from other papers or other sources, I wouldn't be a teacher anymore, I'd have a self-funded space program.
My theory about that attitude comes in the form of easy and quick = best. That, above all else is the attitude in today's US society. If it's easy, if it's quick, it must be good. What we're seeing is the disposable consumer culture translated into an educational setting. That is all my opinion and is not rooted in anything outside of my personal experience.
Yeah, that was my first question when reading about this thing. How are we going to protect something THAT big? I see two targets for this type of surveillance:
1. Use it only on military units who lack the ability to look up; or
2. Civilians.
As most humans have the same ability to tilt their heads backward, or, at the very least to move our eyes in a general upward direction, I believe that we can rule out the first option. So, why would our government need to watch civilians?
On a personal note, this idea seems absolutely ridiculous based on the current age that we live in. I would have loved to see the guy who brought that up in the initial meeting.
General: What's next for surveillance? Pee-on: Well, Sir, how about a blimp? *Cringes for the incoming backhand to the face* General: BRILLIANT!!! THEY'LL NEVER SEE IT COMING!!!
When we started the propaganda about how evil technology and evil hackers are ruining the world.
Here is the Typical Slashdot Response...
Oh god! it is windows.
It is W I N D O W S ! ! !
FTFY
We're in the same boat. I use satellite with a latency of ~750ms. It sucks balls for on-line gaming, but for everything else, it's outstanding. Streaming movies/music, downloads, etc. You just can't on-line game. You do have to watch the bandwidth caps; they'll sneak those in on you. (luckily, my provider threatens the 15GB/mo. cap, but doesn't ever enforce it I think I'm at 850% of my allotted amount this month already).
That's what kills me. I was recently able to upgrade my internet at home from 1MB down to 12 MB down satellite internet (God bless living in the middle of no-where). The issue now is that the latency went from ~300ms to ~750ms. So, when my family says, "The Internet is slower now, go back" I rage quietly inside and continue downloading like a crazy person.
They only stopped because we had a careful talk about what a bigger, but longer tube would mean.
Gonzo was my introduction to the dark and disturbing world of bestiality. That has always seemed like a rather risque topic for a children's show.
The well thought out pro- and anti-global warming arguments are coming.
It's real!
No it isn't.
YOU SMELL!
YEAH, WELL, YOUR FACE!
While I agree with you, I do have one question:
Isn't perception of power just as useful as actual power (or maybe even the same thing)? I don't have to punch you in the face to stop you from pissing me off if you believe that I will do it if you piss me off. Same sort of thing.
Where can you show me the US government, right now, attempting the extermination of an entire race of people?
I have as much distrust of the federal government in me as the next guy, but the US !=Nazi Germany. That is hyperbole, and quite honestly is ridiculous.
(I'm going to make the next part up, but it makes sense) 75% of people use their television to waste time. 20% use it for background noise while they do something else (my group). I'm betting only 5% of people want to completely optimize their home entertainment experience.
It's just like everything else. There are those that know how to do it, and then there are the plebeian masses.
In my opinion, like most things, it all boils down to just another way to be exclusionary.
Look, it's this simple: if you're born near a city, or move to a city, it means that you are smarter, faster, stronger, more ethical, more connected (that's true), and generally better than small town rubes.
Now get back on the turnip truck.
For a decade now, I've been operating on the basis of "Do I need it? If not, do I want it? Can I justify spending money on it? And if not, is there a free-as-in-beer legal alternative available?"
The problem is that most people don't make it to this point. They only see that FREE FREE FREE FREE, and then use their morals against giant companies/for privacy/ anti-government, what-have-you, to justify their decision. A little bit of research will prove that for most things there is a legal, free version available. It might not be 100% what you want, but it'll be close, and it'll be great considering it's free.
DISCLAIMER: I do pirate things (games usually, or music) to TRY THEM. IF I like them, I BUY THEM. This is because there is no such thing as a good demo anymore.