Consider that the "several instructions" to which a VM instruction maps can be hand-tuned code, whereas the compiler has no idea what we will throw at it and often produces code that we could improve. At the same time, the designer of the abstract architecture doesn't have to deal with icky real-world electronics issues and can spend more of his time designing something for which it is easy to compile well.
(OTOH I learned a lot about code tuning on the PDP-10 from reading the output of the Blis10 compiler. What a humbling experience.)
Would that be a service for downloading files of stuff to do with law? I briefly thought it meant "a service for downloading files which is legal", but quickly realized that that description covers every downloading service, so that can't be right.
Since I have no idea what WiX and WTL are, maybe the next project should be, "tell us what the heck it is you have and why you thought we'd be interested."
Depends on what you want to do. If you want to do a lot of shell-like stuff, Tcl is a shell on steroids and Tk adds some of the nicest UI primitives I know. If you want to build your world around regular expressions and basic string mashing, Perl is a good choice and you can get Tk for it too.
As far as needing to install the JVM before you can use it, I'll say that I was pleasantly surprised to find that Sun's packaging people grok the Microsoft Installer better than most third parties. I had little trouble pushing their JRE kit out to a couple hundred MS Windows workstations via an Application Management Group Policy. (I always have *some* trouble because I always want *something* weird, but Sun's people had already explained how to get the effect I wanted, and all I had to do was make a tiny transform to set it up.)
For individual installs, "go to www.java.com; click on Get It Now" is really not very hard, is it?
Oh, yeah, the other ugly thing I've done w.r.t. CLASSPATH is to set up a directory/usr/lib/java and put it on the CLASSPATH bequeathed to all login shells by/etc/profile. Then I *unzip*.jars into that directory. (I can hear the souls of a million Java fans crying out in torment.)
Wouldn't it be nice if there were a way to express "ALL.jarS IN THIS DIRECTORY" as a CLASSPATH element? "export CLASSPATH=/usr/lib/java/*" sounds good to me.
There's something to think about. Java does need some things to make the app.s a little less fragile.
Every sizable app. needs a custom-built CLASSPATH long enough to climb to the moon. Java needs a *standard* place to drop stuff so that all the libraries are "just there". I've fallen into the no doubt disreputable habit of dropping.jars into jre/lib/ext, which is probably gonna bit me some day.
Java needs a *standard* place to put systemwide settings (and not Preferences, 'cos the standard classes don't use those). I'm tired of typing -DTHIS -DTHAT -DTOTHER -DKITCHENSINK.
Oddly enough, the Java environment seems to have been designed more for the lone hacker than for those who work in a shared environment and need shared libraries and defaults.
I think that some of the attitude is not against Java so much as it is against the Java zealots. There are few things as off-putting as somebody else's religion, if it's thrust in your face. The whole OO scene has too many zealots and not enough skilful apologists.
I had an "ewww, Java" attitude and I got over it. It's a good tool and I'm glad I added it to my toolbox. I use it when it's appropriate, and select something else when it isn't. It's great, for example, when I want to develop on Linux, then just hand a.jar over to those folk who use MS Windows or MacOS.
(If the truth be known, I'm actually quite vain about the number of different tools I use. I feel good about being able to use C, Java, Tcl, Perl, bash, and even (shudder) VBscript, sometimes two or three in one project. If I still had access to COBOL and DCL I'd be using those too, where appropriate.)
Running on a 1gHz Pentium 4 256MB box here, and JRE startup still takes forever. It's really not much slower on the Pentium MMX 166 64MB box I have at home.
I have no complaint about the speed of a Java application once it is up and running. The only problem I have is that the runtime takes so long to heave its vast bulk into memory and fiddle with stuff before the app. gets control.
Notice that as the size of the app. grows, and the time you spend in it begins to dominate the time you spend getting there, this becomes less and less a problem. But it's still noticeable. The time-to-first-interaction is painful here on a box that opens non-Java, non-Gnome app.s in what my human nervous system perceives as zero time.
There's no reason writ in stone for code compiled to an abstract architecture, running on a suitable interpreter, to be slower than native code. It could be *faster*, if the architecture is well-designed and the interpreter well-written. I have no doubt that someone could trot out an app. which runs faster in Java than in native machine code made from well-crafted C.
"Perhaps we form political affiliations by semiconsciously detecting commonalities with other people, commonalities that ultimately reflect a shared pattern of brain function."
Duuh. What did he think before? The Blue Fairy waves her wand and bestows a solid-gold Republican or Democrat badge?
People support groups which think more or less as they do. The only surprise here is finding a physical locus for this commonality.
I suppose it makes sense, since Maine is so close to a lot of French-speaking people. I'm in Indiana, surrounded on all sides by English (of a sort). You'd think there'd be some diversity, but no; the assumption is Spanish. (Back when I was in school, in the 1970s, the school offered French, Latin, and German -- I took Latin and German.)
(Okay, it's only a couple of miles from the Indiana border across the lower edge of Michigan to reach Windsor, but that's Ontario, not Quebec.)
BTW, while there are parts of Indianapolis where Spanish would be quite useful, there are also parts where Korean would help more, believe it or not. Try finding a class in Korean in any school around here.
I was unsure whether the language involved was Spanish or Portugese. (Aside from English, the only language I'm likely to attempt is German.)
I'm quite aware of the broad usage of Spanish -- in U.S. schools, when you say you want to study a foreign language nowadays they assume you mean Spanish.
Slashdot Mirror
I look forward to JRE 1.5, then, but it's not released so I haven't used it for production work.
Consider that the "several instructions" to which a VM instruction maps can be hand-tuned code, whereas the compiler has no idea what we will throw at it and often produces code that we could improve. At the same time, the designer of the abstract architecture doesn't have to deal with icky real-world electronics issues and can spend more of his time designing something for which it is easy to compile well.
(OTOH I learned a lot about code tuning on the PDP-10 from reading the output of the Blis10 compiler. What a humbling experience.)
Would that be a service for downloading files of stuff to do with law? I briefly thought it meant "a service for downloading files which is legal", but quickly realized that that description covers every downloading service, so that can't be right.
Since I have no idea what WiX and WTL are, maybe the next project should be, "tell us what the heck it is you have and why you thought we'd be interested."
He must've been counting in octal.
"nobody ever writes a GUI in Fortran"
Is my memory failing, or is MUSIC* such a system? I know the thing is written in Fortran.
--------------
* McGill University System for Interactive Computing
Depends on what you want to do. If you want to do a lot of shell-like stuff, Tcl is a shell on steroids and Tk adds some of the nicest UI primitives I know. If you want to build your world around regular expressions and basic string mashing, Perl is a good choice and you can get Tk for it too.
If you dislike COBOL, may I have your share?
As far as needing to install the JVM before you can use it, I'll say that I was pleasantly surprised to find that Sun's packaging people grok the Microsoft Installer better than most third parties. I had little trouble pushing their JRE kit out to a couple hundred MS Windows workstations via an Application Management Group Policy. (I always have *some* trouble because I always want *something* weird, but Sun's people had already explained how to get the effect I wanted, and all I had to do was make a tiny transform to set it up.)
For individual installs, "go to www.java.com; click on Get It Now" is really not very hard, is it?
Oh, yeah, the other ugly thing I've done w.r.t. CLASSPATH is to set up a directory /usr/lib/java and put it on the CLASSPATH bequeathed to all login shells by /etc/profile. Then I *unzip* .jars into that directory. (I can hear the souls of a million Java fans crying out in torment.)
.jarS IN THIS DIRECTORY" as a CLASSPATH element? "export CLASSPATH=/usr/lib/java/*" sounds good to me.
Wouldn't it be nice if there were a way to express "ALL
"I'm trying to fix my $CLASSPATH"
.jars into jre/lib/ext, which is probably gonna bit me some day.
There's something to think about. Java does need some things to make the app.s a little less fragile.
Every sizable app. needs a custom-built CLASSPATH long enough to climb to the moon. Java needs a *standard* place to drop stuff so that all the libraries are "just there". I've fallen into the no doubt disreputable habit of dropping
Java needs a *standard* place to put systemwide settings (and not Preferences, 'cos the standard classes don't use those). I'm tired of typing -DTHIS -DTHAT -DTOTHER -DKITCHENSINK.
Oddly enough, the Java environment seems to have been designed more for the lone hacker than for those who work in a shared environment and need shared libraries and defaults.
"the managers that choose Java"
Hey, waitaminute, who let the *managers* choose?
"Fred, here's a saw. Go pound some nails in."
I think that some of the attitude is not against Java so much as it is against the Java zealots. There are few things as off-putting as somebody else's religion, if it's thrust in your face. The whole OO scene has too many zealots and not enough skilful apologists.
.jar over to those folk who use MS Windows or MacOS.
I had an "ewww, Java" attitude and I got over it. It's a good tool and I'm glad I added it to my toolbox. I use it when it's appropriate, and select something else when it isn't. It's great, for example, when I want to develop on Linux, then just hand a
(If the truth be known, I'm actually quite vain about the number of different tools I use. I feel good about being able to use C, Java, Tcl, Perl, bash, and even (shudder) VBscript, sometimes two or three in one project. If I still had access to COBOL and DCL I'd be using those too, where appropriate.)
Running on a 1gHz Pentium 4 256MB box here, and JRE startup still takes forever. It's really not much slower on the Pentium MMX 166 64MB box I have at home.
It's the startup time.
I have no complaint about the speed of a Java application once it is up and running. The only problem I have is that the runtime takes so long to heave its vast bulk into memory and fiddle with stuff before the app. gets control.
Notice that as the size of the app. grows, and the time you spend in it begins to dominate the time you spend getting there, this becomes less and less a problem. But it's still noticeable. The time-to-first-interaction is painful here on a box that opens non-Java, non-Gnome app.s in what my human nervous system perceives as zero time.
There's no reason writ in stone for code compiled to an abstract architecture, running on a suitable interpreter, to be slower than native code. It could be *faster*, if the architecture is well-designed and the interpreter well-written. I have no doubt that someone could trot out an app. which runs faster in Java than in native machine code made from well-crafted C.
Okay, I am now convinced that there must be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, 'cos it's all migrated off *this* planet!
Watch the outtakes reel. Our power doors work better (or anyway, more reliably) than the Federation's.
Point to your consciousness and then maybe I'll believe you.
Yup, Federation communicators can reach orbit without relays. Try that with your cell phone.
Not to mention that a pair of communicators held close together make enough feedback to collapse a rocky ledge onto your advancing enemies.
I imagine he knows very well that aluminum != alumina.
Transparent glass. Wow.
Don't be too hasty. Maybe the two Great Parties could *both* be cured!
You could be a Radical Centrist, like me. :-) It's not indecisive to decide that both fringe groups are unappealing.
"Perhaps we form political affiliations by semiconsciously detecting commonalities with other people, commonalities that ultimately reflect a shared pattern of brain function."
Duuh. What did he think before? The Blue Fairy waves her wand and bestows a solid-gold Republican or Democrat badge?
People support groups which think more or less as they do. The only surprise here is finding a physical locus for this commonality.
I suppose it makes sense, since Maine is so close to a lot of French-speaking people. I'm in Indiana, surrounded on all sides by English (of a sort). You'd think there'd be some diversity, but no; the assumption is Spanish. (Back when I was in school, in the 1970s, the school offered French, Latin, and German -- I took Latin and German.)
(Okay, it's only a couple of miles from the Indiana border across the lower edge of Michigan to reach Windsor, but that's Ontario, not Quebec.)
BTW, while there are parts of Indianapolis where Spanish would be quite useful, there are also parts where Korean would help more, believe it or not. Try finding a class in Korean in any school around here.
I was unsure whether the language involved was Spanish or Portugese. (Aside from English, the only language I'm likely to attempt is German.)
I'm quite aware of the broad usage of Spanish -- in U.S. schools, when you say you want to study a foreign language nowadays they assume you mean Spanish.