Does the Chinese government have problems? Yes. Do they restrict people's rights more than they should? Yes. Would the Chinese people have been better off if the Guomingdang has won? No.
I have spent almost half of my life in China. I recognize the problems. I'm critical of many things the Chinese government does. I am also very impressed by how much progress has been made without violence.
Gradualism is necessary.
And the Chinese government ISN'T a group of people who follow the devil. Each generation is more and more moderate. Anything else would cause many more problems than exist today.
As for OSS, the Chinese would love to have China become a tech hub with an OS that was not under someone else's control. In the same way that the U.S. would support OSS if the roles were reversed.
Second -- When I saw the release notice for debian installer beta 3 (on debian planet) i could have sworn I saw it say that this kernel (2.4.25) has xfs and lvm built in. I know there is also a iso for xfs, so the article might have meant that. I don't know.
As for DHCP... i don't know what to tell you. I've installed using the mini (3mb) and 100+mb iso wirelessly using DHCP to find my address. I have to assume it was with the nightly.
I agree. Debian and apt are not meant to be magic tools. (a note: aptitude uses apt and dpkg. it is not a variation of apt.)
If you want bleeding edge, don't use debian. I happen to live bleeding edge enough. I run debian testing and have some packages from unstable. I have gnome 2.6 from experimental. i have my apt settings so i will get testing packages by default, though. I've had very little trouble.
I used to run pure debian unstable. I would run into some problems, but it was pretty easy to use. I only stopped because I got a new system and wanted to test out the new debian installer (beta 3.) It was beautiful, so I decided I'd try testing for a week or two and see if I can bare having a (small) version or two from the bleeding edge. I'm quite happy.
Apt allows me to live in a stable system with whatever bleeding edge I want on the side.
If you want to do bleeding edge all the time you're going to have to use fedora or a source distribution. That or learn how to make debs... which isn't easy enough in my opinion (I know why...)
But that's the reality of being a fringe distribution that doesn't focus on bleeding edge. You can't knock LFS for being too complicated for newbies. It isn't supposed to be. Or knock linux-embedded for not running on blue gene. I isn't supposed to.
Just as in cultures, you have to measure another considering its values. Debian values what it values. You should respect that. You can disagree, but you should still respect it. Just as debian users should respect other development philosophies.
Oh yeah. My sig is a joke. Maybe it isn't extreme enough.
It's something like "i know most people think that debian users are elitist, so i'll explode that sterotype." It is like this, "don't lecture me, I'm American!" The sterotype is that Americans are arrogant and so I'm playing on that sterotype. But it's a sterotype and not always true.
I should change it to make it more clear, but I haven't come up with a really good line yet.
I don't understand it. Maybe the script kiddies who have installed debian propagate that elitism, but most of us don't.
Debian is a distribution. It is a distribution that is community developed and based and one in which the contributers are proud. There is nothing wrong with that.
One of the general community values of using debian is the "militant" support of Free software. There is nothing wrong with beleiving in that.
When someone is a "special" breed, it does not mean that that person is "especially" good at something. It just means that we are a unique breed. Different. Different can be good or bad. It can also be indifferent.
I do not care what distribution people use. Or, rather, I do not hold grudges based on it. I do think that using Debian is good because it is both a good distribution and it supports values I hold dear.
It is no different than Americans wanting to live in America. Or racially tolerant people wanting to live in racially tollerant areas. Or book lovers liking to frequent libraries. Debian supports what I believe in, so I live there. If I had my way you would agree with me. That's part of what having a "value" does.
Some people don't care about these things. That's either a absense of a value concerning these issues or it is a value that opposes them.
That's okay too.
Just because the popular opinion is that people should only care about gratis and not about libre doesn't mean I have to agree with that. And just because you only care about gratis and not about libre doesn't mean you have to agree with me.
My point is that I don't think it is right to classify us as elitist. Some people come off a little too aggresively. I don't support that. I support dialogue so we can learn to respect one anothers values.
I respect this posters. I hope he can respect mine.
(And I hope he gives debian another go. It's a wonderful distribution that just thinks a little differently about releases and politics than some other distributions do. You don't have to agree. It's not a requirement. But please respect that.)
Debian's next stable release (due soon) has a nicer installer. I've used it on my laptop. Loved it. I don't do xfs so I don't know about that though. I also don't use lvm.
I can see the difficulty it would present. I would think that it would be a problem no matter where you were, though. XFS and LVM are not part of the standard kernel. I can't really suggest anything except doing an XFS setup first and then getting (maybe having to compile, but compiling in debian is nice. howtos abound.) an xfs and lvm kernel.
But try the debian-installer beta 3 (the lastest.)
I think I read that the default kernel used i the installer beta 3 has lvm and xfs included.
I wish you luck! Email me if you have any more questions. I am no expert, but I'm a debian user and very willing to help.
That's just not true. If you say "download ftp.us.debian.org/pool/etc/etc/etc/gnaughty_blah_b lah_1.00001.deb then you will get the tracker for that file and you will only connect to people downloading that file. If you get the tracker on a site that hasn't been updated yet then you get the tracker for gnaughty 1.0. Same thing as with files today. If you download from a site that has been sync'd and i don't we get different files. in the current case it is the whole deb. with this it would be a tracker.
Wouldn't it be interesting to have a bittorrent type of streaming interface? You click "watch this video clip" and it connects to all the other people watching it so you don't have as much choppyness?
I think it would be a great extention to BT, personally.
hmm... i wouldn't go that far. true the blair affair hurt them, but I still consider the NYT one of the most, if not the most, reputable news periodical out there.
I think the idea is that you will never have to get another email because your last one filled up and you have what ever other sources 10MBs of emails that you don't want to get rid of.
if you can't maintain less than 1gb of email than you need to learn how to manage your email better.
I have a lot of faith in the free software world. Once there are sufficient clones and people are happily moving to Free systems, then innovation (which does exist, btw) will increase tremendously. Not only will the user and developer base be larger, there will be less need for "we NEED a good media app. let's make one. and we want it to be popular, so let's go with what we know works." When rhythmbox is mature then I, an interested developer, will more like think, "you know, this would really be much better if it was implemented in this tremendously innovative way."
Apple does a good job. It is centralized. Centralization aides in taking such risks. Distributed and decentralized software development isn't ask risky (for large projects. the risky ones hit or miss much early on in their evolution) because they don't need to be currently (or really at all) and because innovation isn't in the mission plan right now.
I think that the current system will provide us, in the end, with a very mature desktop system that is very interoperable (something Apple can't say -- at least the interoperablity of the parts they created themselves). I look forward to that. I don't feel the need for bleeding edge innovation.
Sorry about the quality of my writing. I'm just finishing up a really long week. I think I'm going to hit the hay.
same reason you might use gnu/linux even if it isn't, or certainly wasn't, a standard.
ogg really is better, however. the same sound quality and the files are considerable (i'd say 20+%) smaller. When you have a lot of audio or very little space to put it it matters.
Thank you very much for a perfect example of why some h1b-ers are a.o.k.
i'm sorry it didn't work out. i'm also sorry you had to live in orange, va.:)
i suspect some people would have been happy to be here, especially if they were really "moving up." i wouldn't be one of them. shows how good of a life i lead, i guess.
I can't say I want to continue the/. discussion. I would like to discuss this with you outside of/. sometime if you're interested. Don't quite know the best way to contact each other. I have my email address in my profile, so that would work.
I don't necessarily agree with you, but I can respect your opinion so I've made you a friend. Look forward to seeing what else you have to say.
A little tired, so i'm going to just leave most of the comments.
One -- when i said disproportionate amount, I meant of americans who were not american-born.
two -- we are talking about immigrants. he was saying h1b. h1b doesn't mean exporting jobs, it means bringing foreigners in to the states. some of those people will naturalize.
three -- HE was certainly talking about immigrants. he made several comments specifically about immigrants.
four -- each country has its hay-day. china had theirs (and may have a new one soon enough.) many european country's had theirs (remember, that's where our constitution borrowed itself from, as well as our idea of democracy and the anti-slavery movement,) and we're having ours. playing well with the world allows us all to benefit when our dusk sets.
In terms of American success -- that's the american dream. We got this huge country with few historical barriers and flourished. That's called sociology.
Also, you should look at the percentage of innovations in the tech and science and medical fields. I would bet that there is a dispreportionate amount of innovations credited to people who are not American-born.
Remember, we build this great nation because of immigrants. My great grandparents were Irish immigrants who worked their asses off and kept the dream alive through four generations. I hope I'll keep it alive for the fifth.
Without immigrant labor we'd be nothing. The American Dream is best realized when you have nothing and you see the chance to have a chance at making something of your life.
Oh yeah -- and remember where the head developer for Linux is from.
I really hope you are not the racist you come off as. It will only hurt you.
I'm not trying to be high and mighty. I have no idea how you live.
I do know that the average tech worker in China lives more humbly than the average tech worker in the U.S. And I'd say that the tech workers in the U.S. who aren't living well are probably hard workers who are willing to work any job (elementary school computer technician) so long as they can stay employed or are too full of themselves to fight for those low jobs or expecting too much and asking for six figures for a job that an h1b will do for 45000/year.
I don't always love capitalism, but unless I start my own business, make a ton of money and retire I can't do anything but keep myself competative and valuable.
I have no magic eye, but I suspect that the percentage of people going overseas and coming here will only increase.
I was raised overseas. I'm what people call a "third culture kid" or a "no culture kid" (though I'm no longer a kid,) so I can't honestly empathize. What you describe is my life.:)
My only hope is that either our living standard will go down or the rest of the world's will go up so people won't have to be as mobile. (Meaning that we will be able to provide as cost effective labor here as abroad.)
Slashdot Mirror
What is up with the sinophiles?
Does the Chinese government have problems? Yes. Do they restrict people's rights more than they should? Yes. Would the Chinese people have been better off if the Guomingdang has won? No.
I have spent almost half of my life in China. I recognize the problems. I'm critical of many things the Chinese government does. I am also very impressed by how much progress has been made without violence.
Gradualism is necessary.
And the Chinese government ISN'T a group of people who follow the devil. Each generation is more and more moderate. Anything else would cause many more problems than exist today.
As for OSS, the Chinese would love to have China become a tech hub with an OS that was not under someone else's control. In the same way that the U.S. would support OSS if the roles were reversed.
First -- I envy your user number.
Second -- When I saw the release notice for debian installer beta 3 (on debian planet) i could have sworn I saw it say that this kernel (2.4.25) has xfs and lvm built in. I know there is also a iso for xfs, so the article might have meant that. I don't know.
As for DHCP... i don't know what to tell you. I've installed using the mini (3mb) and 100+mb iso wirelessly using DHCP to find my address. I have to assume it was with the nightly.
I wish you luck.
I agree. Debian and apt are not meant to be magic tools. (a note: aptitude uses apt and dpkg. it is not a variation of apt.)
If you want bleeding edge, don't use debian. I happen to live bleeding edge enough. I run debian testing and have some packages from unstable. I have gnome 2.6 from experimental. i have my apt settings so i will get testing packages by default, though. I've had very little trouble.
I used to run pure debian unstable. I would run into some problems, but it was pretty easy to use. I only stopped because I got a new system and wanted to test out the new debian installer (beta 3.) It was beautiful, so I decided I'd try testing for a week or two and see if I can bare having a (small) version or two from the bleeding edge. I'm quite happy.
Apt allows me to live in a stable system with whatever bleeding edge I want on the side.
If you want to do bleeding edge all the time you're going to have to use fedora or a source distribution. That or learn how to make debs... which isn't easy enough in my opinion (I know why...)
But that's the reality of being a fringe distribution that doesn't focus on bleeding edge. You can't knock LFS for being too complicated for newbies. It isn't supposed to be. Or knock linux-embedded for not running on blue gene. I isn't supposed to.
Just as in cultures, you have to measure another considering its values. Debian values what it values. You should respect that. You can disagree, but you should still respect it. Just as debian users should respect other development philosophies.
Oh yeah. My sig is a joke. Maybe it isn't extreme enough.
It's something like "i know most people think that debian users are elitist, so i'll explode that sterotype." It is like this, "don't lecture me, I'm American!" The sterotype is that Americans are arrogant and so I'm playing on that sterotype. But it's a sterotype and not always true.
I should change it to make it more clear, but I haven't come up with a really good line yet.
I don't understand it. Maybe the script kiddies who have installed debian propagate that elitism, but most of us don't.
Debian is a distribution. It is a distribution that is community developed and based and one in which the contributers are proud. There is nothing wrong with that.
One of the general community values of using debian is the "militant" support of Free software. There is nothing wrong with beleiving in that.
When someone is a "special" breed, it does not mean that that person is "especially" good at something. It just means that we are a unique breed. Different. Different can be good or bad. It can also be indifferent.
I do not care what distribution people use. Or, rather, I do not hold grudges based on it. I do think that using Debian is good because it is both a good distribution and it supports values I hold dear.
It is no different than Americans wanting to live in America. Or racially tolerant people wanting to live in racially tollerant areas. Or book lovers liking to frequent libraries. Debian supports what I believe in, so I live there. If I had my way you would agree with me. That's part of what having a "value" does.
Some people don't care about these things. That's either a absense of a value concerning these issues or it is a value that opposes them.
That's okay too.
Just because the popular opinion is that people should only care about gratis and not about libre doesn't mean I have to agree with that. And just because you only care about gratis and not about libre doesn't mean you have to agree with me.
My point is that I don't think it is right to classify us as elitist. Some people come off a little too aggresively. I don't support that. I support dialogue so we can learn to respect one anothers values.
I respect this posters. I hope he can respect mine.
(And I hope he gives debian another go. It's a wonderful distribution that just thinks a little differently about releases and politics than some other distributions do. You don't have to agree. It's not a requirement. But please respect that.)
Debian's next stable release (due soon) has a nicer installer. I've used it on my laptop. Loved it. I don't do xfs so I don't know about that though. I also don't use lvm.
I can see the difficulty it would present. I would think that it would be a problem no matter where you were, though. XFS and LVM are not part of the standard kernel. I can't really suggest anything except doing an XFS setup first and then getting (maybe having to compile, but compiling in debian is nice. howtos abound.) an xfs and lvm kernel.
But try the debian-installer beta 3 (the lastest.)
I think I read that the default kernel used i the installer beta 3 has lvm and xfs included.
I wish you luck! Email me if you have any more questions. I am no expert, but I'm a debian user and very willing to help.
mod parent up
That's just not true. If you say "download ftp.us.debian.org/pool/etc/etc/etc/gnaughty_blah_b lah_1.00001.deb then you will get the tracker for that file and you will only connect to people downloading that file. If you get the tracker on a site that hasn't been updated yet then you get the tracker for gnaughty 1.0. Same thing as with files today. If you download from a site that has been sync'd and i don't we get different files. in the current case it is the whole deb. with this it would be a tracker.
Well... not the usenet part, but p2p streaming.
Wouldn't it be interesting to have a bittorrent type of streaming interface? You click "watch this video clip" and it connects to all the other people watching it so you don't have as much choppyness?
I think it would be a great extention to BT, personally.
hmm... i wouldn't go that far. true the blair affair hurt them, but I still consider the NYT one of the most, if not the most, reputable news periodical out there.
I think most people would agree with me.
I think the idea is that you will never have to get another email because your last one filled up and you have what ever other sources 10MBs of emails that you don't want to get rid of.
if you can't maintain less than 1gb of email than you need to learn how to manage your email better.
dear google,
:)
i love you. please listen.
please allow for pop and imap connections to your new web mail.
i love you baby, but you have to do this if you want to keep me.
sincerely,
your smiley face,
Some with authority please answer a few questions:
1) will this mean consumer products being developed to compete with x86 products?
2) who do you think will support this first? Will the major distributers jump on or will it be the little guys?
3) what will be the price of a open ppc system?
4) not that i'm interested... but might this allow mac clones?
5) for the developers, would you support PPC? I use debian so PPC is supported (whether this is a good or bad thing...) but it is usually behind.
6) what would having an emerging platform like ppc do wrt DRM? Could it break down the company's support DRMs plans?
actually, i could go on forever. i'll stop there.
preferences->input box->"nick completion suffix"
you don't have to click anything. you can just stick that suffix in and pow! works better than before!
Just so you know --
that's also why we have ten-times the murder rate of england or japan and a similarly higher violent crime rate.
I have a lot of faith in the free software world. Once there are sufficient clones and people are happily moving to Free systems, then innovation (which does exist, btw) will increase tremendously. Not only will the user and developer base be larger, there will be less need for "we NEED a good media app. let's make one. and we want it to be popular, so let's go with what we know works." When rhythmbox is mature then I, an interested developer, will more like think, "you know, this would really be much better if it was implemented in this tremendously innovative way."
Apple does a good job. It is centralized. Centralization aides in taking such risks. Distributed and decentralized software development isn't ask risky (for large projects. the risky ones hit or miss much early on in their evolution) because they don't need to be currently (or really at all) and because innovation isn't in the mission plan right now.
I think that the current system will provide us, in the end, with a very mature desktop system that is very interoperable (something Apple can't say -- at least the interoperablity of the parts they created themselves). I look forward to that. I don't feel the need for bleeding edge innovation.
Sorry about the quality of my writing. I'm just finishing up a really long week. I think I'm going to hit the hay.
Exactly!
This is why I propose that each tech company give every developer a free gadget.
Hey! I can dream.
same reason you might use gnu/linux even if it isn't, or certainly wasn't, a standard.
ogg really is better, however. the same sound quality and the files are considerable (i'd say 20+%) smaller. When you have a lot of audio or very little space to put it it matters.
Thank you very much for a perfect example of why some h1b-ers are a.o.k.
:)
i'm sorry it didn't work out. i'm also sorry you had to live in orange, va.
i suspect some people would have been happy to be here, especially if they were really "moving up." i wouldn't be one of them. shows how good of a life i lead, i guess.
I can't say I want to continue the /. discussion. I would like to discuss this with you outside of /. sometime if you're interested. Don't quite know the best way to contact each other. I have my email address in my profile, so that would work.
I don't necessarily agree with you, but I can respect your opinion so I've made you a friend. Look forward to seeing what else you have to say.
A little tired, so i'm going to just leave most of the comments.
One -- when i said disproportionate amount, I meant of americans who were not american-born.
two -- we are talking about immigrants. he was saying h1b. h1b doesn't mean exporting jobs, it means bringing foreigners in to the states. some of those people will naturalize.
three -- HE was certainly talking about immigrants. he made several comments specifically about immigrants.
four -- each country has its hay-day. china had theirs (and may have a new one soon enough.) many european country's had theirs (remember, that's where our constitution borrowed itself from, as well as our idea of democracy and the anti-slavery movement,) and we're having ours. playing well with the world allows us all to benefit when our dusk sets.
have a nice day, and thank you for responding.
Wow man! Calm down!!
A couple of things:
In terms of American success -- that's the american dream. We got this huge country with few historical barriers and flourished. That's called sociology.
Also, you should look at the percentage of innovations in the tech and science and medical fields. I would bet that there is a dispreportionate amount of innovations credited to people who are not American-born.
Remember, we build this great nation because of immigrants. My great grandparents were Irish immigrants who worked their asses off and kept the dream alive through four generations. I hope I'll keep it alive for the fifth.
Without immigrant labor we'd be nothing. The American Dream is best realized when you have nothing and you see the chance to have a chance at making something of your life.
Oh yeah -- and remember where the head developer for Linux is from.
I really hope you are not the racist you come off as. It will only hurt you.
I'm not trying to be high and mighty. I have no idea how you live.
I do know that the average tech worker in China lives more humbly than the average tech worker in the U.S. And I'd say that the tech workers in the U.S. who aren't living well are probably hard workers who are willing to work any job (elementary school computer technician) so long as they can stay employed or are too full of themselves to fight for those low jobs or expecting too much and asking for six figures for a job that an h1b will do for 45000/year.
I don't always love capitalism, but unless I start my own business, make a ton of money and retire I can't do anything but keep myself competative and valuable.
I have no magic eye, but I suspect that the percentage of people going overseas and coming here will only increase.
:)
I was raised overseas. I'm what people call a "third culture kid" or a "no culture kid" (though I'm no longer a kid,) so I can't honestly empathize. What you describe is my life.
My only hope is that either our living standard will go down or the rest of the world's will go up so people won't have to be as mobile. (Meaning that we will be able to provide as cost effective labor here as abroad.)
You, fine sir, are funny. I'd mod you, but I've posted in this discussion.