though I know nothing about you, I do know that the average tech worker's lifestyle in the states is considerably higher than the average person's lifestyle.
I can see the difference, though I see it differently than you do.
I have spent most of my life overseas. Expats live really good lives, for the most part. I spent 7 years in China. Overcrowded? Yes. Far less to offer? I don't think so. I've also been to India and have several American friends who work there. They like it. They get paid reasonable salaries but live considerably more comfortable lives than they could have here in the states.
That and Indian food is great. I particularly loved the Masala Dosa. And my vegetarian sister loved how "non-veg" food items on the menu are the exception, not the rule.
I particularly liked Punjab and Amristar. The people were very friendly. Something like the Turkic states or the Uigur people in China.
I have lived in the U.S. exactly five years, and I read the paper everyday. I'm an American who has spent most of his life overseas.
And I know exactly what you mean. I don't really consider such people members of the faith they claim. That's my judgement, though. Not really very weighty.
My point was that sometimes you have to accept something. Religion was actually a bad choice. I said in another post, "a capitalist free market is a capitalist free market." you can't chose to not be a part of it, really. due to advances in technology and trade that market is growing. we just have to work hard enough to stay ahead of the curve and to stay competitive.
Not really. While I agree that economics and religion are not directly parallel, they have their similarities.
A capitalist free market is a capitalist free market. We have to accept that we live in one. As the market slowly grows to encompass the world, we have to deal with that too. In the 40s and 50s a father said to his son, "son, if you want that job you have to fight for it. don't think that it will just land on your plate." it's the same thing today. Then it was competing for a job with your local rivals. Today, because of technological advances and increasing trade and travel, the job market has grown considerably.
You can't choose not to play the game. You can attempt to be protectionist, but that is short sighted. The days of one economic superpower are coming to a close. We have to learn to play with our buddies around the world or they will jump ahead of us.
A capitalist free market is a capitalist free market. What else can I say? We have to learn to keep ourselves competitive or else we lose.
I am pro labor as much as the next guy. I can also agree that most h1b jobs are redundant and available in the U.S. job market. There is probably some small market for them however.
I have also observed something unfortunate since I returned to America (I grew up overseas.) I found that the people who understand the "American Dream" best are not American born. In fact I was finally told what the American Dream was by a Russian in Turkmenistan who said, "at least in America if you work hard to get something for it!" Can you believe that? When I was here all I heard was "a nice suburban house. Kids. Beautiful wife. Nice car." It isn't any of those things. It's the idea that you have a chance to make something of yourself.
So while I do not support hiring foreigners when domestic workers are just as skilled, I do have to say that we have brought some of this on ourselves. It's hard for a company to want to hire a arrogant well educated American when someone else is willing to work twice as hard and not constantly ask for raises because he understands the priviledge of having that chance.
I'm not saying that Americans are all lazy and arrogant, I'm just saying that we have to start rethinking some things if we hope to compete in a increasingly global market.
1) That's exactly what the Indians do when they come here.
2) If you were willing to work for 12 dollars domestically then you wouldn't have to go to India at all. You could probably get away with 20. That's the real solution. Lower the cost of living, and live a less luxurious lifestyle. That's competative capitalism for you. Whether you choose to be competative is your business.
As true as you might think that is, I don't believe it.
That's like saying you are only religous until you want to do something that isn't allowed. That's not how it works. You don't do something because you don't think it is right and because it is not allowed. And if you are tempted to do something that isn't allowed, you fight that temptation.
So Free Trade is like a religion. You have to fight the desire to break out of it when it isn't as easy.
It's simple. Some U.S. company hires you, sends a letter to the embassy saying that you are a skilled worker that is skilled enough that the company can't find someone of your qualifications here, and then you get your visa. It is not the h1b visa holders fault. Get mad at your own companies.
Okay... you are a friend of a friend (of 229128), so I will assume you are not a troll.
Water scarcity is one of today's major concerns. Search for it on google. Cleaning is also not so easy. Now if you are a social Darwinist or something... then I have nsthing to say.
"At present 1.1 billion people lack access to clean water and 2.4 billion lack access to proper sanitation, nearly all of them in the developing countries. Yet the fact that these figures are likely to worsen remorselessly has not been properly grasped by the world community, the report says. 'Despite widely available evidence of the crisis, political commitment to reverse these trends has been lacking.'"
2 million liters is only 1000 something computers. that's not a lot.
so that is 1000 people getting to drink for a day PER PC. 1000000 people per day for 1000 PCs. 1000000 people can drink for three years with 1000000 PCs...
Considering the number of PCs we make... that's a lot of water.
as for another argument, upgrading does help. you might eventually replace everything, but the time between total replacements would increase substantially.
That has to the most poorly written 'article' I've EVER seen on slashdot. Editors, can't you edit it so it actually says something?
Maybe this (keeping with the Headline News format): We have news from Germany. It seems that SCO's German branch has agreed to refrain from posting some unproven states ments. This comes after a settlement with Univention. The amount of the settlement was undisclosed. They willed be fined 10,000 eros (about 12500 US) if they make any claims without backing them up within a month. Find out more at Groklaw.
Of course that is simply a rewording of what they posted. No details added or subtracted, though it would have been nice to list what SCO couldn't do.
My point is, can't you reword the stories? Do they have to be in the same format in which they were submitted? Can't you add a clause in the submittion agreement that says, "if we think your posting is unclear we reserve the right to edit it for clarity's sake." Please.
I am looking forward to testing the new beta installer ISOs once I get my hands on some POS PC that I can wipe clean.
I liked knoppix when I last used it, but I'm not a big fan of KDE. I was raised on GNOME (started with GNOME.99/1.0 in 1998/9.) Also, Debian is usually considered to lean towards GNOME. Blah blah, other examples/reasons. Whatever the cause it happened.
So I am looking for a GNOME-o-centric liveCD. Really, I would like liveCD->HD installation to become a well supported option of Debian proper. We'll see how the installer works out. The problem is all the different archs... oh well.
I would like to see a really high quality LiveCD that installs a debian system smoothly. I installed Morphix. I found it set up the configurations better than doing it the debian way. But there is still some odd stuff. a morphix folder in ever new home directory with the morphix background as default.
I would just like a good Debian liveCD that installs everything in standard debian placement (so i can install/uninstall whatever i want) with standard debian configuration (i understand some of the morphix stuff was simply for testing.. maybe it's no longer there. i installed this system a year ago) and compatible with debian testing or sid.
As for this modules bit -- I think that can be accomplished by standard debian tools. "gnome" installs all the default gnome packages. "desktop" could install a stardard desktop. I think it would be better to have a utilitarian selection, however. Having abiword, oowriter, kwrite, gnotepad, kedit, gedit, emacs, and vi doesn't do anything but confuse people. If they want to change it they can. synaptic is a pretty good tool, though it could be updated
Sept 16, 1940 - United States military conscription bill passed. More than a year before Pearl Harbor.
We might not have "entered" until Pearl Harbor (and then shortly after Germany declaring war on us), but we were preparing for it. Would we have gone to war if they hadn't bombed us? No one knows.
But -- point taken. I'll watch my wording next time.
As someone who grew up in China I have some insight into the welfare of the Chinese people. In short: it could get a lot better. But that doesn't mean China shouldn't go into space.
We went to war during the great depression. A war that wasn't directly against us (until Pearl Harbor). Should we have? We had millions of starving Americans.
When we went into space we still had people without jobs and without food. Today we have people without jobs and without food. Why are we doing anything but feeding them?
Because that's not how economies work. If China can develop a computer industry jobs will come. If china can develop a science industry jobs will come.
If China just spent its time trying to feed its people then no one would get fed and the government would collapse. You have to make the economy boom and then move on from there. For instance, people are doing a hell of a lot better today then they were in 1979 or even ten years ago. Why? Because China invested in its markets and in its economy and in its peoples sense of national pride.
BTW, China is nothing like the USSR. The USSR never had the world's fastest growing major economy. It certainly never had it for years running as China has.
China can afford going to space. They shouldn't get consumed by it; but I doubt that is what is happening. There is still a lot more money outside the space race than inside the space race.
So they are paying a little for some national pride, so what?
I'm with you on this one. Especially if you were laid off. Lay offs happen in any industry. Especially in the computer industry.
If you were fired, on the other hand, then you have better have a good reason. If you don't, then hopefully whatever got you fired is no longer true (you were a slacker, etc) and you can demonstrate this in an interview. If you can't, then it's time to make that change. Consequences for your actions. Can't escape your past.
I have used MEPIS. I have found it is at least a little better than knoppix in the debian-thru-knoppix/mepis function. Some odd little things. It uses acpi and has suspend/standby turned off. Little things like that.
I must have really not chosen the right words for "not focused enough userbase," as I have gotten two replies about the same thing. What you are saying is what I meant in that (at the end.)
I am glad this hurdle has been crossed, though. I still think that it will make some companies look into the market more closely. Maybe some of them will see enough of a user base in server admin, software development, or even office productivity apps. Anything to get us to that next percentage point faster so that we might then have one of our many different sub groups get to be a similar size to Mac's even if they are not as great a portion of the GNU/Linux userbase as they are of Mac's.
Some round numbers -- though they are all just hypothetical.
Let's say 30% of Mac owners own a copy of Photoshop. Let's say that 15% of GNU/Linux users want to be able to use it. At the same total desktop market share there is not the same incentive for Photoshop to be ported. But if GNU/Linux had 6% of the total marketshare then it would make sense to develop Photoshop for GNU/Linux because they were getting enough phone calls to justify it. in reality it is likely that fewer GNU/Linux users want Photoshop... but you get the point. Anyway, it is also likely that the GNU/Linux market share wouldn't have to reach Mac's to make it a profitable market for Photoshop, or whatever app.
My point about other apps and this stimulus (the surpassing of Mac) is that the more people use GNU/Linux for other things, the more mature it gets, the more other apps are developed for it (and probably maturing the GNU/Linux development tools to make porting easier), and the more people use it. That gets us to the point where the diverse groups of users allows each group to cut from a larger pie, and then create more incentive for companies to work with us.
This has already happened. GNU/Linux became popular enough for people to start caring enough to make desktop environments since they knew people would use them. That allowed more people to start using GNU/Linux, which allowed for enough of a population for good printing software that CUPS was developed, which allowed for enough growth in the population to allow for the development of some office suites, which would only have had a market if less than directly related and other small time counterparts had gone in earlier with a lower barrier of entry and/or a stronger, though different, userbase.
But it's now 03:15 and I am not thinking so clearly, so I'm off to bed.
Slashdot Mirror
I can tell you've not gone to India...
though I know nothing about you, I do know that the average tech worker's lifestyle in the states is considerably higher than the average person's lifestyle.
Though I can't totally agree (there are many different religions and faiths) I liked the short story very much.
:)
Thank you.
True. But taking risks is part of capitalism. Maybe we need a little more of that risk-taking competitiveness around here.
I can see the difference, though I see it differently than you do.
I have spent most of my life overseas. Expats live really good lives, for the most part. I spent 7 years in China. Overcrowded? Yes. Far less to offer? I don't think so. I've also been to India and have several American friends who work there. They like it. They get paid reasonable salaries but live considerably more comfortable lives than they could have here in the states.
That and Indian food is great. I particularly loved the Masala Dosa. And my vegetarian sister loved how "non-veg" food items on the menu are the exception, not the rule.
I particularly liked Punjab and Amristar. The people were very friendly. Something like the Turkic states or the Uigur people in China.
I have lived in the U.S. exactly five years, and I read the paper everyday. I'm an American who has spent most of his life overseas.
And I know exactly what you mean. I don't really consider such people members of the faith they claim. That's my judgement, though. Not really very weighty.
My point was that sometimes you have to accept something. Religion was actually a bad choice. I said in another post, "a capitalist free market is a capitalist free market." you can't chose to not be a part of it, really. due to advances in technology and trade that market is growing. we just have to work hard enough to stay ahead of the curve and to stay competitive.
Not really. While I agree that economics and religion are not directly parallel, they have their similarities.
A capitalist free market is a capitalist free market. We have to accept that we live in one. As the market slowly grows to encompass the world, we have to deal with that too. In the 40s and 50s a father said to his son, "son, if you want that job you have to fight for it. don't think that it will just land on your plate." it's the same thing today. Then it was competing for a job with your local rivals. Today, because of technological advances and increasing trade and travel, the job market has grown considerably.
You can't choose not to play the game. You can attempt to be protectionist, but that is short sighted. The days of one economic superpower are coming to a close. We have to learn to play with our buddies around the world or they will jump ahead of us.
A capitalist free market is a capitalist free market. What else can I say? We have to learn to keep ourselves competitive or else we lose.
I am pro labor as much as the next guy. I can also agree that most h1b jobs are redundant and available in the U.S. job market. There is probably some small market for them however.
I have also observed something unfortunate since I returned to America (I grew up overseas.) I found that the people who understand the "American Dream" best are not American born. In fact I was finally told what the American Dream was by a Russian in Turkmenistan who said, "at least in America if you work hard to get something for it!" Can you believe that? When I was here all I heard was "a nice suburban house. Kids. Beautiful wife. Nice car." It isn't any of those things. It's the idea that you have a chance to make something of yourself.
So while I do not support hiring foreigners when domestic workers are just as skilled, I do have to say that we have brought some of this on ourselves. It's hard for a company to want to hire a arrogant well educated American when someone else is willing to work twice as hard and not constantly ask for raises because he understands the priviledge of having that chance.
I'm not saying that Americans are all lazy and arrogant, I'm just saying that we have to start rethinking some things if we hope to compete in a increasingly global market.
Two Points:
1) That's exactly what the Indians do when they come here.
2) If you were willing to work for 12 dollars domestically then you wouldn't have to go to India at all. You could probably get away with 20. That's the real solution. Lower the cost of living, and live a less luxurious lifestyle. That's competative capitalism for you. Whether you choose to be competative is your business.
As true as you might think that is, I don't believe it.
That's like saying you are only religous until you want to do something that isn't allowed. That's not how it works. You don't do something because you don't think it is right and because it is not allowed. And if you are tempted to do something that isn't allowed, you fight that temptation.
So Free Trade is like a religion. You have to fight the desire to break out of it when it isn't as easy.
It's simple. Some U.S. company hires you, sends a letter to the embassy saying that you are a skilled worker that is skilled enough that the company can't find someone of your qualifications here, and then you get your visa. It is not the h1b visa holders fault. Get mad at your own companies.
I have always thought of intelligence as having just three sorts:
1) You know you don't know everything.
2) You think you know almost everything.or "all that matters."
3) You again realize you don't know everything.
As for wisdom... there's a reason why why and wise rhyme.
Okay... you are a friend of a friend (of 229128), so I will assume you are not a troll.
Water scarcity is one of today's major concerns. Search for it on google. Cleaning is also not so easy. Now if you are a social Darwinist or something... then I have nsthing to say.
"At present 1.1 billion people lack access to clean water and 2.4 billion lack access to proper sanitation, nearly all of them in the developing countries. Yet the fact that these figures are likely to worsen remorselessly has not been properly grasped by the world community, the report says. 'Despite widely available evidence of the crisis, political commitment to reverse these trends has been lacking.'"
most 1st world countries don't have much...
and i think most would agree that the first world countries use more than their fair share.
amazon.com -- "water wars." ward, shiva or rand.
two things:
2 million liters is only 1000 something computers. that's not a lot.
so that is 1000 people getting to drink for a day PER PC. 1000000 people per day for 1000 PCs. 1000000 people can drink for three years with 1000000 PCs...
Considering the number of PCs we make... that's a lot of water.
as for another argument, upgrading does help. you might eventually replace everything, but the time between total replacements would increase substantially.
Meant to say, "i've tried gnoppix, but found it to be lacking." oops. thanks for the note, though.
That has to the most poorly written 'article' I've EVER seen on slashdot. Editors, can't you edit it so it actually says something?
Maybe this (keeping with the Headline News format):
We have news from Germany. It seems that SCO's German branch has agreed to refrain from posting some unproven states ments. This comes after a settlement with Univention. The amount of the settlement was undisclosed. They willed be fined 10,000 eros (about 12500 US) if they make any claims without backing them up within a month. Find out more at Groklaw.
Of course that is simply a rewording of what they posted. No details added or subtracted, though it would have been nice to list what SCO couldn't do.
My point is, can't you reword the stories? Do they have to be in the same format in which they were submitted? Can't you add a clause in the submittion agreement that says, "if we think your posting is unclear we reserve the right to edit it for clarity's sake." Please.
I am looking forward to testing the new beta installer ISOs once I get my hands on some POS PC that I can wipe clean.
.99/1.0 in 1998/9.) Also, Debian is usually considered to lean towards GNOME. Blah blah, other examples/reasons. Whatever the cause it happened.
I liked knoppix when I last used it, but I'm not a big fan of KDE. I was raised on GNOME (started with GNOME
So I am looking for a GNOME-o-centric liveCD. Really, I would like liveCD->HD installation to become a well supported option of Debian proper. We'll see how the installer works out. The problem is all the different archs... oh well.
Back to packing.
Not to mention that it is based on Debian!
I would like to see a really high quality LiveCD that installs a debian system smoothly. I installed Morphix. I found it set up the configurations better than doing it the debian way. But there is still some odd stuff. a morphix folder in ever new home directory with the morphix background as default.
I would just like a good Debian liveCD that installs everything in standard debian placement (so i can install/uninstall whatever i want) with standard debian configuration (i understand some of the morphix stuff was simply for testing.. maybe it's no longer there. i installed this system a year ago) and compatible with debian testing or sid.
As for this modules bit -- I think that can be accomplished by standard debian tools. "gnome" installs all the default gnome packages. "desktop" could install a stardard desktop. I think it would be better to have a utilitarian selection, however. Having abiword, oowriter, kwrite, gnotepad, kedit, gedit, emacs, and vi doesn't do anything but confuse people. If they want to change it they can. synaptic is a pretty good tool, though it could be updated
I was trying to impress anyone. I was just surprised. I've never attempted a first post before, so I don't follow the different types.
I posted my comment simply because I thought it was odd.
I've been reading /. a long time and I've never seen a story where i might have FP... i just refreshed and there is still nothing...
Sept 16, 1940 - United States military conscription bill passed. More than a year before Pearl Harbor.
We might not have "entered" until Pearl Harbor (and then shortly after Germany declaring war on us), but we were preparing for it. Would we have gone to war if they hadn't bombed us? No one knows.
But -- point taken. I'll watch my wording next time.
As someone who grew up in China I have some insight into the welfare of the Chinese people. In short: it could get a lot better. But that doesn't mean China shouldn't go into space.
We went to war during the great depression. A war that wasn't directly against us (until Pearl Harbor). Should we have? We had millions of starving Americans.
When we went into space we still had people without jobs and without food. Today we have people without jobs and without food. Why are we doing anything but feeding them?
Because that's not how economies work. If China can develop a computer industry jobs will come. If china can develop a science industry jobs will come.
If China just spent its time trying to feed its people then no one would get fed and the government would collapse. You have to make the economy boom and then move on from there. For instance, people are doing a hell of a lot better today then they were in 1979 or even ten years ago. Why? Because China invested in its markets and in its economy and in its peoples sense of national pride.
BTW, China is nothing like the USSR. The USSR never had the world's fastest growing major economy. It certainly never had it for years running as China has.
China can afford going to space. They shouldn't get consumed by it; but I doubt that is what is happening. There is still a lot more money outside the space race than inside the space race.
So they are paying a little for some national pride, so what?
I'm with you on this one. Especially if you were laid off. Lay offs happen in any industry. Especially in the computer industry.
If you were fired, on the other hand, then you have better have a good reason. If you don't, then hopefully whatever got you fired is no longer true (you were a slacker, etc) and you can demonstrate this in an interview. If you can't, then it's time to make that change. Consequences for your actions. Can't escape your past.
I have used MEPIS. I have found it is at least a little better than knoppix in the debian-thru-knoppix/mepis function. Some odd little things. It uses acpi and has suspend/standby turned off. Little things like that.
I must have really not chosen the right words for "not focused enough userbase," as I have gotten two replies about the same thing. What you are saying is what I meant in that (at the end.)
I am glad this hurdle has been crossed, though. I still think that it will make some companies look into the market more closely. Maybe some of them will see enough of a user base in server admin, software development, or even office productivity apps. Anything to get us to that next percentage point faster so that we might then have one of our many different sub groups get to be a similar size to Mac's even if they are not as great a portion of the GNU/Linux userbase as they are of Mac's.
Some round numbers -- though they are all just hypothetical.
Let's say 30% of Mac owners own a copy of Photoshop. Let's say that 15% of GNU/Linux users want to be able to use it. At the same total desktop market share there is not the same incentive for Photoshop to be ported. But if GNU/Linux had 6% of the total marketshare then it would make sense to develop Photoshop for GNU/Linux because they were getting enough phone calls to justify it. in reality it is likely that fewer GNU/Linux users want Photoshop... but you get the point. Anyway, it is also likely that the GNU/Linux market share wouldn't have to reach Mac's to make it a profitable market for Photoshop, or whatever app.
My point about other apps and this stimulus (the surpassing of Mac) is that the more people use GNU/Linux for other things, the more mature it gets, the more other apps are developed for it (and probably maturing the GNU/Linux development tools to make porting easier), and the more people use it. That gets us to the point where the diverse groups of users allows each group to cut from a larger pie, and then create more incentive for companies to work with us.
This has already happened. GNU/Linux became popular enough for people to start caring enough to make desktop environments since they knew people would use them. That allowed more people to start using GNU/Linux, which allowed for enough of a population for good printing software that CUPS was developed, which allowed for enough growth in the population to allow for the development of some office suites, which would only have had a market if less than directly related and other small time counterparts had gone in earlier with a lower barrier of entry and/or a stronger, though different, userbase.
But it's now 03:15 and I am not thinking so clearly, so I'm off to bed.