um... i think the regionization was to make sure that Chinese DVDs weren't then pirated and sold here... (because we wouldn't be able to buy them -- and the chinese would have no incentive to pirate western DVDs because their main market, the Chinese, wouldn't be able to watch them)
I'm not going to say you support one side or another. But I can tell you one thing -- China economy, under the Communist regime, has had double digit economic growth rates for a decade. We haven't had that. Not even with our boom in the late 90s.
The Chinese government has been good to the majority of the people. That's why, if you go to China and research this, they are happy with their government. They remember what it was like under the US sponsored Guomingdang. To put it frankly: it sucked.
True Capitalism doesn't work in a country with 1.3 billion people. In fact, I fear for Chinese economy right now. Over the past ten years or so they have been pushing towards privitization. This has caused the great economic boom, but it has also caused the Chinese of the rural areas to be neglected by the ones in the urban areas. (Which happened less when it was the communist government running all the factories and developing all the businesses.)
So, no, opening up the economy won't help all chinese people. It may help the movie-going urban population... but that's leaving out 900 million rural inhabitants. Allow them to move into cities? It's happening right now, and it is disasterous. The Chinese government doesn't admit it, but it has millions of people in Beijing, Shanghai,Guangzhou, Chongqing, Chengdu, Xi'an, Tianjin, and other large cities who have moved from the country side and are job-less looking for work. (They they'll not find because 1) the government no longer promises jobs for everyone -- part of opening up 2) the Chinese businesses care more for profit than for social welfare -- another cause of opening up and 3) urban economies, when unregulated, can not grow at the pace that they would need to to employ everyone in China. (or even 50 percent))
So... you can argue that the economy needs to be opened up... but if you look at it economically (as opposed to your view of "right."), "opening up" the economy, entirely, will do nothing but hurt the Chinese people.
A tiny five-minute battery built in so when I switch in this charged-externally battery I can do it without having to plug myself into the wall. Otherwise the feature wouldn't actually increase my mobility...
when will the ati mobility 3d LR work? all i get with X 4.2 is my screen slowly turning white. it is cool and all... but i'd rather be able to use accelerated (not vesa) X.
the "group" as a homepage. i open slashdot, linuxtoday, and google news... click "use current group" and now when i open mozilla it pops open three tabs each with one of my favorite sites.
Very cool. Phoenix, when will you have this? (Please, please, please put it in!)
>Goddamn, but what has happened to slashdot? Judging by the posts from the majority of the slashdot crowd, I think that they'd be happier if slashdot started reporting every new Microsoft Update patch instead of new Kernal releases.
I know what you mean! When did everyone turn from OS/Free Software or no software! Now it seems more people are anti-FS than are for it...
and when you get poisoned by the sauce? wouldn't you rather have that happen than have someone have to die before you knew not to try the "secret" sauce?
The "GNU people" you're refering to have been working really hard for a long time.
Some say that Linux could have been developed without the tremendous effort put into gcc and other GNU projects. That is true.
but that wasn't, and isn't, the goal of the Hurd or of GNU. The Hurd is not trying to be a kernel that works on _some_ system. It is trying to become the kernel that works on the _GNU_ system.
So, in order to produce the Hurd kernel, the GNU system had to be mature enough. Hence the long drive to develop those things first.
Then, when the GNU system got a separate kernel to further it's development (Linux) they bothered more with developing the extra-kernel features and less on the kernel (Hurd.)
This is because the GNU project had the goal of making a fully operating system. Linux wants to be a kernel. that's its right. Xfree86 wants to be a windowing system, that's its right. GNU wants to be a fully functional system, that's its right.
and, if it can expedite the process by using other GPL'd tools, why not do that?
If there were the crazy politicians that everyone makes them to be then they would have continued to sit in their rooms and code Hurd. Also, if they had done that, they would not have gotten as far as the GNU/Linux system has today -- so they didn't. They were _pragmatic_ and went with the other projects out there that complimented theirs.
So they continue to work on their own projects? let them. They think the monolithic kernel isn't as good as the micro-kernel... that's their choice, not ours.
Just like in the linux kernel... some things _work_ but not as well as they could possibly. in the GNU system some things work (Linux), but not as well as they could work (as they believe.)
ls man cat pipe "|" more, less, and most #!/bin/bash -- to test your ideas export echo vim lynx (to get to google to search for help) xchat-text (to pester people in search of help)
and, of course, apt-get:)
I'd say with those (and fewer if you know something about something) you can figure out how to do just about any job (and then do it)
Why did they not suggest GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc? Everyone is almost certainly more secure than any out-of-the-box windows install (i say almost because i don't know if i'd trust a lindows install to be secure...)
I just don't get it. I was just at UMBC and they prohibit internet connections from anyone who doesn't have anti-virus software installed.
(you can still get on if you don't, but if they find out you lose your right to get online)
why not just suggest installing a more virus-resistant OS?
the US may or may not intentionally target civilians. i'll go with you on that for now.
but how many people have died because of America? not 3000? i think no.
our military industrial complex provides most of the weapons aronud the world. look it up if you'd like. we are always told that they get these things from the black market of old USSR weapons. bullshit.
before we attacked IRAQ in 1991, they were our buddies. we gave saddam weapons for oil. (they have the world's second largest oil reserve, after all)
and how many palestinians have died at the hands of american-funded israeli guns? not american-funded? well shit, where did that 96 billion we've given them over the past 50 years go? we certainly said it was to be spent (for the most part) on "defense." maybe it wasn't. maybe it was spent to buy ty beanie babies for all the palestinian and israeli children. but certainly the terrorists see the U.S. giving 1/3 of their total foreign aid to israel, which has a very high economic standard of living, instead of to the millions starving in the muslim and non-muslim areas.
that's just the official military history. what about the shah that we put into iran? so they replaced him themselves and get mad at the people who put him in.
and guatemala comes to mind -- where we happened to destroy the last democratic system there (because they were leaning towards supporting the still-alive and healty USSR) and replaced it with a dictator (who supported us)
and i'd like to hear about these oppressed muslims we're helping.
the point is -- we've been interferring in the matters of other nations for a LONG time. and a lot of the peoples with the guts to say anything anymore (official political states have trouble saying anything. think of the 73 cut in oil production by OPEC. now the U.S. (in retaliation) has a imposed monopoly on most of the high-tech oil refinery components. so joe-shmoe-oil-refiner has to ship something from the U.S. (which he COULD buy locally -- but it's been made illegal) so he can continue to make money)
and that sorta leads me into the corporate "terrorism" we've pushed on the world. we may think that it is just "survival of the fittest" in the business world.. but other peoples of other areas don't think that. in a lot of third world countries, business is an issue of honor, not money (to the extent it is here.) it is changing, yes. but many blame that on the over-bearing stance the U.S. has taken to "liberate" the economies of these places. maybe they don't want to be industrialized. maybe they don't want coke. maybe they want yak-butter-tea instead (which i've had -- and didn't care for... but i'm not from the area.)
anyway -- simply put: we've not been staying out of the worlds business by any means. my examples (which are not the best -- i just woke up and have no interest in researching this) are only a small piece of how the peoples of the world see America.
i'd say research all the governments we supported in during the cold war. most of them were dictatorial -- but were against the USSR so we supported them. the peoples of those countries are still feeling the pain -- and they are finding America as one of the reasons for it.
if they have no official military to fight with, then what do they do? send letters?
i don't support the killing of civilians. but i don't support it when the U.S. does it either (though their case has been more one of destroying the lives of people... though there has been plenty of death in that)
I rely heavily on IRC. particularly irc.openprojects.net...
sometimes my questions are OT, but the people in #debian are very nice. #wireless helps me with my wireless problems. #gnu helps me with my political questions. etc.
ahh -- but didn't the terrorists think that we were self-serving businessmen with "irrational" motives which were not shared by the majority of the members of our dominant religion?
and maybe they think that america is just a shelter for their terrorists (a.k.a. afluent businesspersons who don't give a shit about the effect american foreign policy and private action overseas has)
is it just a different perspective? (and no, most of the world doesn't support either of the two sides -- esp. before 9/11)
you've already gotten a reply from a "pure" Chinese -- now you get to get one from a "pure" "laowai" (old foreigner) who grew up in china and has CCP (chinese communist party) buddies and whose father works for the U.S. gov't (so therefore gets to hear the U.S. side)
The Chinese people love windows. The government doesn't. What the other poster said about WTO and all is one of there issues with it, but a larger, and older, issue is one of control.
MS has been accused and convicted of many things. One of those things is having backdoors in their software (netscape developers are weenies).
The NSA has to check the source for windows if it wants to get used in gov't agencies. this means that the U.S. National Securty Agency has seen these backdoors (maybe has a special non-backdoor version? i don't know) and can therefore break into all chinese computers.
or at least that's what the chinese gov't is paranoid about.
with linux, this is not an issue. they can have their little software security group members spend all day checking out the code of the "approved" distros (Red Flag, for instance, is sold in more places than Red Hat is) and the popular unapproved ones to make sure that the chinese gov't isn't being spied on.
after that, the WTO and licences thing comes then, then the Confucius thing.
Look at lotteries here in America. They can give out 160 million (in a single state, a single time!) and still make a profit margin (which i'm sure is quite a good margin... at least several million. I can't imagine many people would care if the prize is 150 or 160 million... so that's 10 million right there)
So have a deal. Lottery ticket -- 10 bucks. Person chosen gets to have a trip to mars & training. have some other prizes as well. (just training. the next trip to the ISS, etc)
really. it won't raise 20 billion, but it would be a nice bit of money to buffer the over-budget woes.
I'd buy the ticket. Hell, I'd buy 100.
But then again, i guess they'd have to have some deal (if you're a 500 pound, illiterate ignoramus who can't even stand up on your own, we have the right to choose the next guy.)
but i don't think that a strictly spiritual movement should protest politically.
that was my only point.
and all the other views i've gained on falungong were all formed before i read that article -- i only found it to prove to you that they protested before they were persecuted (and that they weren't solely a persecuted religous movement)
my other views were developed with all the OTHER protests they've had. and the falungong members i've met. and the handouts they've given me (both in china and in america)
as for the qigong "creation." i got that off of a flyer i got on falundafa (their other name) when i was seeing the sites in D.C.
(sorry, i no longer have it... that was years ago)
if they just wanted to practice their spirituality, why did their leader stage a protest before they were being watched like dogs?
http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/fa lu n15.html
as for the self-imolation... you can believe it is a chinese fabrication. i happen to think your idea is a falungong fabrication. i'd say neither is below such things. but you tell me to KNOW my facts. the truth is that neither of us KNOW the truth. we just have our prefered opinions.
i've lived in china though. the falungong members i met there were peaceful, for the most part. they were critical of the chinese gov't, but a lot of chinese are.
the falungong members i've met here are not so peaceful. that's why i see it as manipulative. they get these people to protest for their own (US based) reasons. that's not cool in my book.
Slashdot Mirror
um... i think the regionization was to make sure that Chinese DVDs weren't then pirated and sold here... (because we wouldn't be able to buy them -- and the chinese would have no incentive to pirate western DVDs because their main market, the Chinese, wouldn't be able to watch them)
I'm not going to say you support one side or another. But I can tell you one thing -- China economy, under the Communist regime, has had double digit economic growth rates for a decade. We haven't had that. Not even with our boom in the late 90s.
The Chinese government has been good to the majority of the people. That's why, if you go to China and research this, they are happy with their government. They remember what it was like under the US sponsored Guomingdang. To put it frankly: it sucked.
True Capitalism doesn't work in a country with 1.3 billion people. In fact, I fear for Chinese economy right now. Over the past ten years or so they have been pushing towards privitization. This has caused the great economic boom, but it has also caused the Chinese of the rural areas to be neglected by the ones in the urban areas. (Which happened less when it was the communist government running all the factories and developing all the businesses.)
So, no, opening up the economy won't help all chinese people. It may help the movie-going urban population... but that's leaving out 900 million rural inhabitants. Allow them to move into cities? It's happening right now, and it is disasterous. The Chinese government doesn't admit it, but it has millions of people in Beijing, Shanghai,Guangzhou, Chongqing, Chengdu, Xi'an, Tianjin, and other large cities who have moved from the country side and are job-less looking for work. (They they'll not find because 1) the government no longer promises jobs for everyone -- part of opening up 2) the Chinese businesses care more for profit than for social welfare -- another cause of opening up and 3) urban economies, when unregulated, can not grow at the pace that they would need to to employ everyone in China. (or even 50 percent))
So... you can argue that the economy needs to be opened up... but if you look at it economically (as opposed to your view of "right."), "opening up" the economy, entirely, will do nothing but hurt the Chinese people.
They have a break; in there that doesn't belong. I removed it and it works. It is in EVERY kernel version. Why? No idea.
because you never submitted a patch...
that before-hand. Linking your professional interests with a single entity is a dangerous move.
A tiny five-minute battery built in so when I switch in this charged-externally battery I can do it without having to plug myself into the wall. Otherwise the feature wouldn't actually increase my mobility...
when will the ati mobility 3d LR work? all i get with X 4.2 is my screen slowly turning white. it is cool and all... but i'd rather be able to use accelerated (not vesa) X.
the "group" as a homepage. i open slashdot, linuxtoday, and google news... click "use current group" and now when i open mozilla it pops open three tabs each with one of my favorite sites.
Very cool. Phoenix, when will you have this? (Please, please, please put it in!)
the people working on phoenix are also working on a projoct to make a stand-alone mail client based on mozilla.
>Goddamn, but what has happened to slashdot? Judging by the posts from the majority of the slashdot crowd, I think that they'd be happier if slashdot started reporting every new Microsoft Update patch instead of new Kernal releases.
I know what you mean! When did everyone turn from OS/Free Software or no software! Now it seems more people are anti-FS than are for it...
one of RMS's point is... it doesn't matter what the better product is, it matters where the product comes from.
some similar cases (just to show the way of thought... not the severity of each case)
buying a german car in 1942... may be better.. but yo're supporting the nazis.
buying cheaper/stronger clothes even though it is made in a sweatshop
buying coffee that isn't bought from businesses that treat their workers properly.
etc, etc...
and when you get poisoned by the sauce? wouldn't you rather have that happen than have someone have to die before you knew not to try the "secret" sauce?
/. user points to where the source is (and hopes the site stays up for a little bit at least...)
The "GNU people" you're refering to have been working really hard for a long time.
Some say that Linux could have been developed without the tremendous effort put into gcc and other GNU projects. That is true.
but that wasn't, and isn't, the goal of the Hurd or of GNU. The Hurd is not trying to be a kernel that works on _some_ system. It is trying to become the kernel that works on the _GNU_ system.
So, in order to produce the Hurd kernel, the GNU system had to be mature enough. Hence the long drive to develop those things first.
Then, when the GNU system got a separate kernel to further it's development (Linux) they bothered more with developing the extra-kernel features and less on the kernel (Hurd.)
This is because the GNU project had the goal of making a fully operating system. Linux wants to be a kernel. that's its right. Xfree86 wants to be a windowing system, that's its right. GNU wants to be a fully functional system, that's its right.
and, if it can expedite the process by using other GPL'd tools, why not do that?
If there were the crazy politicians that everyone makes them to be then they would have continued to sit in their rooms and code Hurd. Also, if they had done that, they would not have gotten as far as the GNU/Linux system has today -- so they didn't. They were _pragmatic_ and went with the other projects out there that complimented theirs.
So they continue to work on their own projects? let them. They think the monolithic kernel isn't as good as the micro-kernel... that's their choice, not ours.
Just like in the linux kernel... some things _work_ but not as well as they could possibly. in the GNU system some things work (Linux), but not as well as they could work (as they believe.)
ls
:)
man
cat
pipe "|"
more, less, and most
#!/bin/bash -- to test your ideas
export
echo
vim
lynx (to get to google to search for help)
xchat-text (to pester people in search of help)
and, of course, apt-get
I'd say with those (and fewer if you know something about something) you can figure out how to do just about any job (and then do it)
Why did they not suggest GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc? Everyone is almost certainly more secure than any out-of-the-box windows install (i say almost because i don't know if i'd trust a lindows install to be secure...)
I just don't get it. I was just at UMBC and they prohibit internet connections from anyone who doesn't have anti-virus software installed.
(you can still get on if you don't, but if they find out you lose your right to get online)
why not just suggest installing a more virus-resistant OS?
you've got a 15GB/s (3 DVDs) line and some lag? stop complaining!
the US may or may not intentionally target civilians. i'll go with you on that for now.
but how many people have died because of America? not 3000? i think no.
our military industrial complex provides most of the weapons aronud the world. look it up if you'd like. we are always told that they get these things from the black market of old USSR weapons. bullshit.
before we attacked IRAQ in 1991, they were our buddies. we gave saddam weapons for oil. (they have the world's second largest oil reserve, after all)
and how many palestinians have died at the hands of american-funded israeli guns? not american-funded? well shit, where did that 96 billion we've given them over the past 50 years go? we certainly said it was to be spent (for the most part) on "defense." maybe it wasn't. maybe it was spent to buy ty beanie babies for all the palestinian and israeli children. but certainly the terrorists see the U.S. giving 1/3 of their total foreign aid to israel, which has a very high economic standard of living, instead of to the millions starving in the muslim and non-muslim areas.
that's just the official military history. what about the shah that we put into iran? so they replaced him themselves and get mad at the people who put him in.
and guatemala comes to mind -- where we happened to destroy the last democratic system there (because they were leaning towards supporting the still-alive and healty USSR) and replaced it with a dictator (who supported us)
and i'd like to hear about these oppressed muslims we're helping.
the point is -- we've been interferring in the matters of other nations for a LONG time. and a lot of the peoples with the guts to say anything anymore (official political states have trouble saying anything. think of the 73 cut in oil production by OPEC. now the U.S. (in retaliation) has a imposed monopoly on most of the high-tech oil refinery components. so joe-shmoe-oil-refiner has to ship something from the U.S. (which he COULD buy locally -- but it's been made illegal) so he can continue to make money)
and that sorta leads me into the corporate "terrorism" we've pushed on the world. we may think that it is just "survival of the fittest" in the business world.. but other peoples of other areas don't think that. in a lot of third world countries, business is an issue of honor, not money (to the extent it is here.) it is changing, yes. but many blame that on the over-bearing stance the U.S. has taken to "liberate" the economies of these places. maybe they don't want to be industrialized. maybe they don't want coke. maybe they want yak-butter-tea instead (which i've had -- and didn't care for... but i'm not from the area.)
anyway -- simply put: we've not been staying out of the worlds business by any means. my examples (which are not the best -- i just woke up and have no interest in researching this) are only a small piece of how the peoples of the world see America.
i'd say research all the governments we supported in during the cold war. most of them were dictatorial -- but were against the USSR so we supported them. the peoples of those countries are still feeling the pain -- and they are finding America as one of the reasons for it.
if they have no official military to fight with, then what do they do? send letters?
i don't support the killing of civilians. but i don't support it when the U.S. does it either (though their case has been more one of destroying the lives of people... though there has been plenty of death in that)
I rely heavily on IRC. particularly irc.openprojects.net...
sometimes my questions are OT, but the people in #debian are very nice. #wireless helps me with my wireless problems. #gnu helps me with my political questions. etc.
ahh -- but didn't the terrorists think that we were self-serving businessmen with "irrational" motives which were not shared by the majority of the members of our dominant religion?
and maybe they think that america is just a shelter for their terrorists (a.k.a. afluent businesspersons who don't give a shit about the effect american foreign policy and private action overseas has)
is it just a different perspective? (and no, most of the world doesn't support either of the two sides -- esp. before 9/11)
you've already gotten a reply from a "pure" Chinese -- now you get to get one from a "pure" "laowai" (old foreigner) who grew up in china and has CCP (chinese communist party) buddies and whose father works for the U.S. gov't (so therefore gets to hear the U.S. side)
The Chinese people love windows. The government doesn't. What the other poster said about WTO and all is one of there issues with it, but a larger, and older, issue is one of control.
MS has been accused and convicted of many things. One of those things is having backdoors in their software (netscape developers are weenies).
The NSA has to check the source for windows if it wants to get used in gov't agencies. this means that the U.S. National Securty Agency has seen these backdoors (maybe has a special non-backdoor version? i don't know) and can therefore break into all chinese computers.
or at least that's what the chinese gov't is paranoid about.
with linux, this is not an issue. they can have their little software security group members spend all day checking out the code of the "approved" distros (Red Flag, for instance, is sold in more places than Red Hat is) and the popular unapproved ones to make sure that the chinese gov't isn't being spied on.
after that, the WTO and licences thing comes then, then the Confucius thing.
Hello to you, too.
Actually, this is plausible.
:(
Look at lotteries here in America. They can give out 160 million (in a single state, a single time!) and still make a profit margin (which i'm sure is quite a good margin... at least several million. I can't imagine many people would care if the prize is 150 or 160 million... so that's 10 million right there)
So have a deal. Lottery ticket -- 10 bucks. Person chosen gets to have a trip to mars & training. have some other prizes as well. (just training. the next trip to the ISS, etc)
really. it won't raise 20 billion, but it would be a nice bit of money to buffer the over-budget woes.
I'd buy the ticket. Hell, I'd buy 100.
But then again, i guess they'd have to have some deal (if you're a 500 pound, illiterate ignoramus who can't even stand up on your own, we have the right to choose the next guy.)
sucks for me.
i grew up in china, yes.
but i don't think that a strictly spiritual movement should protest politically.
that was my only point.
and all the other views i've gained on falungong were all formed before i read that article -- i only found it to prove to you that they protested before they were persecuted (and that they weren't solely a persecuted religous movement)
my other views were developed with all the OTHER protests they've had. and the falungong members i've met. and the handouts they've given me (both in china and in america)
just clearifying
the point of the article is to say that the falungong did have political motives before they were persecuted.
keep meeting some falungong members.
a lu n15.html
as for the qigong "creation." i got that off of a flyer i got on falundafa (their other name) when i was seeing the sites in D.C.
(sorry, i no longer have it... that was years ago)
if they just wanted to practice their spirituality, why did their leader stage a protest before they were being watched like dogs?
http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/f
as for the self-imolation... you can believe it is a chinese fabrication. i happen to think your idea is a falungong fabrication. i'd say neither is below such things. but you tell me to KNOW my facts. the truth is that neither of us KNOW the truth. we just have our prefered opinions.
i've lived in china though. the falungong members i met there were peaceful, for the most part. they were critical of the chinese gov't, but a lot of chinese are.
the falungong members i've met here are not so peaceful. that's why i see it as manipulative. they get these people to protest for their own (US based) reasons. that's not cool in my book.