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News.com Links to DeCSS Program
zorglubxx writes "In less than a week News.com has published 2 articles ([Oct 3] and [Oct 7]) talking about copyright law and the DMCA where they LINK to DeCSS. Not source but compiled Windows version called DeCSS.exe. News.com know that 2600 lost their fight for linking to DeCSS so I wonder why they are doing this. Trying to make a point? Civil disobedience? An honest mistake?" Update: 10/08 02:51 GMT by T : An anonymous reader writes "In the time between when I read the first and second referenced articles, the links were updated to point the DeCSS gallery rather than DeCSS.exe"
if people want to keep them...
a ^= b; b ^= a; a ^= b;
MPAA is probably tired of suing people by now.
I wish.:(
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
Slashdot links to News.com article that links to DeCSS.
I just did a quick search on Gnutella for DeCSS, and a few matches came back.
Now that's a classic example of what P2P is good for - distributing "illicit" files.
Get your own free personal location tracker
"We're a big site and can do anything we want!"
(No, they did NOT say that)
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
Seriously, if CNN.com would have originally linked to DeCSS do you think it would have gotten sued? (I know, pretend for a moment that it wasn't part of the AOLTimeWarner conglomerate though, and you'll get my point.)
Hopefully, a court case WILL come of this, and maybe we'll get a Judge with a clue that realizes the DMCA restricts your First Amendment rights.
Here in Norway, DeCSS co-author Jon Johansen has become somewhat of an icon in the fight for rights in the digital age. There's an interview with him here, in which he speaks about how he got involved with DeCSS, and the whole thing about the controversion trial. Also, the EFF has supported him tremendously with legal assistance. Their official Jon Johansen page is here.
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
Because News.com.com has more resources/clout than 2600?
Because the author didn't know better?
Because the author loves freedom? (and will soon be unemployed)
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
It is civil disobience, via exercise of the 1st amendment people. Its one publisher supporting another. If every new organization does the same whats gonna happen...I doubt everyone one of them is going to court. /. become an acessory because they link to a story that links to DECSS?
AT least I hope thats what their link is all about. I suppose we shall see if it disappears later or not.
Hey does
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
What about knowingly linking to a site that links to DeCSS? Is /. trying to make a point?
Are we supposed to read the articles, look for the links in the articles, or just comment on the blurb?
(now that the sarcastic questions are done on to the real comment)
I think the link could be one of two things, the links auto-generate on phrases in the article as a sort of cross reference thing, or the just don't care. My vote is aotomatic link generation in a posted story.
But given the statement "But when Linux programmers wrote the DeCSS.exe utility to play DVDs on their computers.." with a link to something clearly labelled as a Windows app and the absence of any reference to 2600 or linking, I'd confidently guess that it never occurred to the writer or editor that there could be anything illegal about such a link.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
"We're a big site and can do anything we want!"
As long no one biggers than we are cares about...
I give it 2 hours until they carefully de-link that DeCSS, max.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
There is no law in the US against linking to DeCSS. News.com is a news organization and is reporting the news as they see fit. If the DVD-CCA decides to bring suit against News.com and got a judgement forcing them to to stop linking, then they would have to remove the links.
But it is unlikely that the DVD-CCA would try something like that. They already have enough bad press in the tech sector, the last thing they need is bad press in mainstream news channels.
This is the same reason slashdot doesn't get raided by some government agency everytime a poster puts a link to DeCSS in a comment. There is no "don't link DeCSS law" and there is no legal ruling (yet...) preventing slashdot from posting DeCSS links in discussions.
Uninnovate - Only the finest in engineering.
Being that the author, Declan McCallugh, has extensively covered the 2600 and similar cases, I would say that he did know what he was doing.
As for the actual reason, I'll leave that for others to speculate.
I won't be happy until they air commercials on the TV of Illegal Prime Numbers
I hear if you use a lossy compression algorithm the number shrinks down to 42.
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
That isn't civil disobidience, because only 2600 group where indicted to comply with the court rule... news.com wasn't defendent in the case...
Cheers...
So? You can find DeCSS over all sorts of servers in europe, even a Google Search will create some interesting results. Infact the first few links, are a collection of links to where you can download DeCSS: First Link, Second Link and Third Link. I just hate it when people make a big deal out of something so pointless.
Sorry... couldn't resist :p
Got brain?
What's with the extra .com?!
Perhaps 2600.com could file suit under the 'equal protection under the law' clause. Technically, this sort of double standard is unconstitutional:
Now, a literal reading might allow the federal government to be unfair, while requiring fairness from state governments, but I cannot imagine even our frighteningly corrupt supreme court interpreting the clause in such a fashion.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Its simple: if there are no links to DeCSS, then there is no way to reach it. DeCSS would effectively cease to exist in this universe. (It might still technically exist, like a physical object that falls within the event horizon of a black hole, but that distinction is only of interest to philosophers). Some would argue that you could reach DeCSS via non-hyperlink text URLs. Give me a break - that's comparing apples and oranges. It doesn't count as a valid way to pierce the event horizon.
Now, by placing this valid hyperlink, they've created a huge leak in the carefully constructed containment barrier. We might be back almost to square one.
An honest mistake?
I think it's pretty clear that there is one thing this is not: a mistake. Even if they only did this once, I don't see how it could be a mistake. I mean, when was the last time you saw a news story from a legitimate news outlet that linked DIRECTLY to an executable file?
News.com is, perhaps, setting up for a court battle ('cause they want to challenge the DMCA) or this guy is trying to make some sort of point.
I couldn't tell if you were experimenting with poor-man's cryogenics or looking for the orange sherbet.
"Jaszi is talking about a November 2001 decision by the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled 3-0 that it was illegal to distribute a DVD-unlocking program called DeCSS.exe."
;)
The "DeCSS.exe" was a hyperlink to a DeCSS W32 executable file.
Gee, think he knew...?
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
news.com gets sued for deep-linking straight to DeCSS.exe.
-S
I'm willing to bet that the reason news.com linked to a copy of DeCSS is because one would commonly expect that it would be all right to do so. Most laws are based on common sense and common morality. The DMCA goes against these tenants and tries to get one to do things that go against human nature and reasonable expectation of sharing of information.
News.com just did what makes sense. The DMCA doesn't.
http://wired.com/news/print/0,1294,43485,00.html
Trying to squelch the media is much harder than squelching 2600, they can make their case known to the general public at large.
-Insani Kamil
Has anybody asked Declan yet if he's smoking rock? Maybe he's positioning news.com for a swing at the DMCA...
Whatever happened to JonKatz?
Look around. What do you see? An author that loves freedom, and wants to tell the truth to readers no matter what he needs to do, even if he needs to break the law.
Of course he won't be soon unemployed, if something happen news.com will cover his case exclusively and will push this to the media as hard it can. Then, after all the spreading around this subject, they will use this slogan: "The truth, whatever it takes..."
Realists have the world in his hands. Optimists own the world.
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
what is teh point in creating copywrite laws, if congress wants to pick then all over again.
the American way, designed to make your life as difficut and frought as possible!!!
Murphy's Law of Research: Enough research will tend to support your theory.
.. Slashdot is employing illegal and nefarious deep linking to really ram the point home!!
I love it when a site grows a couple of large, hanging-fruits, and decides to take these lilly-livered, low-down, bookworm losers, picked last in kickball, thurgood marshall wanna-be's, no girlfriend, need a punch in the mouth idiots to task...(suit filed, subpoena recieved). Okay, I'll shut up now.
"This isn't a study in computer science, its a study in human behavior"
It's due to a dripping wet sack of corporate ignorance. Nothing else.
Someone will get yelled at and nothing will come of this, unfortunately. Greasy corporate goons will continue to tailgate people on the highways in their wasteful SUVs. Poor hackers will take the subway.
If any site would do that, you'd expect /. to be it... but nooooh.
Too bad DeCSS doesn't even work on newer DVDs. Look for DeCSS Plus instead.
Does anyone else find it peculiar that they have a windows (.exe) file linked, but describes it as a program "Linux programmers wrote... to play DVDs on their computers"? What's the deal? Just a non-tech reporter mixing things up? (Sure, once you have the source you can compile it any way you want, but...)
This is like the Napster lawsuit. Napster would be alive and thriving today had it been started by Microsoft or AOL rather than by a college student. No court would ever have held that a major corporation was responsible for copyright violations of its customers/users.
News.com is in no real danger because they are part of the "establishment." If sued, they will go to court, wave the flag, use variations of the same arguments that 2600 did, and, unlike 2600, prevail. Although it sucks, I am coming to believe that the judicial branch has been bought off just like the other branches of government -- or have been stocked with appointees that value the interests of major corporations with much higher regard than the rights of individuals and small businesses. Just look at the 180 degree turn the Justice Department did with regards to the Microsoft lawsuit when the Bush administration came into office.
/. user points to where the source is (and hopes the site stays up for a little bit at least...)
What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
Civil Disobedience? As stated above it's not illegal to link to DeCSS for anyone but 2600 (by way of court injunction.
Freedom fighter? Maybe, but links to DeCSS are all over the place as more than one informative /.'er as noted above.
How about:
You think?
blog
Most /.'ers have probably seen the name Declan McCullagh (the author of the articles) around. As previously mentioned, an editor could've added the link, but... Based on Declan's history, it's quite possible the linking to the DeCSS executable is just an example of how the DMCA is ridiculous.
As for the negative assumption that the author or editor who included the link will be fired, I doubt it. It's definetly a possibility, but I think News.com would rather keep the publicity in the case that some trouble happens.
DeCSS is just proof of concept code. libdvdcss accomplishes the same end-result, and it actually works. It's embarassing how many people involved in the DeCSS issue don't realize this fact. libdvdcss is just as illegal (according to the MPAA's gestapo) as DeCSS was/is. Maybe it's a good thing that nobody realizes it...
Yes and no. Often laws work if a small amount of people with a lot of money want to keep them and are willing to fight with high-priced lawyers to keep them around. The laws may be tossed in the end, but the pricey lawyers can manage to keep them around and kicking for quite a few years.
This was discussed on /. some time ago.
Below is a quote from the news.com article ( http://news.com.com/2100-1023-959544.html ).
"FARC" is a link. I think this is a position on the issue, not just careless writers.
The University of California at San Diego has ordered a student organization to delete hyperlinks to an alleged terrorist Web site, citing the recently enacted USA Patriot Act.
School administrators have told the group, called the Che Cafe Collective, that linking to a site supporting the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) would not be permitted because it violated federal law.
Can't forget the most important option!
I know you can't tell the difference and all, but the Motion Picture Association of America is the one (along with DVD Forum, DVD-CCA, et al.) who went after 2600 and Johansen. Yes, it has many members who are also part of RIAA, but it's not the same organization.
If we could get this is enough "physical" magazines or newspapers it would be a lot more effective. I know some magazines do provide URL's, I'm not sure about newspapers. If the RIAA sends them a "cease and desist" then what? They can stop printing, perhaps even pull copies of the article, but by then it's already out. It's a lot harder to stop something in live print than in online news, too bad it's probably not going to happen.
Every time an article mentions RIAA it should be linked, slashdot them every chance we get! - phorm
And how many degrees of separation is this from Kevin Bacon?
Maybe they're just freakin' clueless? I hope they get sued and hire some high powered lawyers to shove the DMCA up the MPAA's anal cavity.
Back in 1999, a whole bunch record companies(including sony, virgin, warner etc.(their Danish departments)) sued two Danish guys for maintaining a list of links to MP3 files from their web site.
The weird thing about this case was that all the focus was on the guys maintaining a link list, none of the sites who actually committed the crimes was sued(meaning the sites who actually did the ripping and hosting of the music).
I can understand why they sued the linking guys, BUT(huuuuge but) they should have went for a site shutdown plus maybe a minor fine. They didn't, they sued them for lost profit. Which is the exact same paragraphs that you would get sued by if you copied/ripped the music.
The whole case was build around they where linking directly to the mp3 files(hosted on various warez sites), and they eventually got them convicted(to pay 100000 DKr(roughly 12500$)) on this fact. This of course, effectively meaning that linking directly to illegal files is, here in little old Denmark, considered as serious a offences as making the files available.
So if CNET was doing this in Denmark, they could be in trouble.
If any of you read Danish, you can find the complete court transcript here:
http://sql.dklaw.dk/vl-dom/
First, the Corely DeCSS injunction is limited to the plaintiffs in that case. Second, the author of both articles is none other than the EFF's Declan McCullagh. How much you wanna bet he's itching to become a name defendant . . . ?
Was it this one?
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
(and if you're thinking about modding me down, see the sig. This post contains so many contradictions that it should be a +1 Funny, anyway)
If Hillary Rosen ever reads this, she's gonna be pissed.
>
I'm guessing that most of you have the DeCSS source already, if not the t-shirt, but if you truncate the link, you get a source tree for 1.2.
There's also something about WMA in there. I have not looked at it, but I suspect that it's a way to circumvent the DRM that's built into the WMA format.
Woowooo so i am finally a hacker ! :-)
- Posting DeCSS as journalistic material as part of a news article.
- Posting DeCSS as a form of political protest.
- Using DeCSS as educational material.
It's unfortunate that 2600 dropped the case. BTW, personal favorite DeCSS site is here.Support SETI@home
I still have this old DeCSS source mirror online from way back when this fight started.
/.)
I think they have quickly come to realize that the more they persue this software the more it spreads. Remember when 2600 was forced to remove their copy of the software? It immediately sprouted up on hundreds of hundreds of sites, all listed in a number of different forums (including
The DMCS provides some nice protections against liability for ISP's, but the anti-reverse engineering aspects of it relating to copyright content controls are rediculous and need to be nullified ASAP.
uh...... all this speculation as to why news.com posted a link to the DeCSS program is all fine and good. But has anyone bothered to actually email the site, or the articles' author to find out why they put the link into the story?
.....Or shall we just continue speculating?
dan.
Because it's not illegal.
The court order about linking only applied to 2600. All other news sources are still free to link to the article, unless they get sued and a new ruling comes down banning them from linking to it.
> 14th Amendment when they are unfairly applied to racial minorities, but not anyone else. I don't have any examples.
The Fla hand count laws should have been thrown out if they allowed unequal vote counting.
For some reason the USSC made Bush v. Gore a non-precedent, just disallowing the 'local standard' interpretation of the laws, while allowing the vague laws that caused the problem to stand.
As long no one biggers than we are cares about...
What?
It's a screw up. There's no way these suits have the guts to do any civil disobedience.
I'll bet they remove it in a panic two seconds after they discover it's there.
And someone gets canned for it, too.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
I mean... Most authors can't even handle their own proofreading. Who says they create their own links?
Actually, most authors do handle their own proofreading. Editors (whose time is usually spent doing far more administration than "galley slavery") love writers who submit clean copy. It saves them time, and it makes the author in question look like a real pro who actually knows what they're doing, instead of yet another no-neck yahoo who thinks they can write.
Likewise, a lot of authors can and do create their own links. I should think that Declan McCullagh, with his tech-related tearsheets as thick as the average encyclopedia, would be better-suited to defending his ability to write a simple hyperlink (and to opine on the deliberateness -- or not -- of the DeCSS link) than I, but I'm here.
Also, low level process note: For any web-based print medium for which I've written (several, by now), the author generally includes his or her own hyperlinks, if not actual markup. Editorial commentary and/or low-level drudgery only come into it if the links don't work for some reason, in which case the author usually gets an e-mail from the editor advising him or her to change the link and resubmit the revised version. YMMV, especially if the link leads to actionable content...
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
Suppose a web site simply displays a web address in plain text. Then it wouldn't technically be a functional "link" but merely a piece of information. Would that make a difference legally?
Maybe a disgruntled employee switched a link with the link to the DeCSS executable to get back at his bad employers for something they did or didn't do.
I don't think 2600.com actually lost the trial. They gave up the fight because they knew they would have lost if they pressed it. Their reputation as "evil haxorz" would have made it impossible to get a fair trial. And a loss would have set a bad precedence. 2600 decided to step aside and hope that someone more "legitimate" would pick up where they left off.
If C-Net were sued, they would probably do better, as they are a "legitimate" news site, and might be able to get support from others, like CNN, Fox, NBC, and other well-funded companies who don't want their first amendment rights taken away.
blog
Why would the RIAA care about DeCSS? Do they have anything that even uses it? I thought only DVDs were affected. Granted there's plans for DVD-Audio but have they gone anywhere yet? I've never seen one.
I think it'd be funny if the head of the RIAA linked to DeCSS as an example in one of their rants on the evils of piracy, and then the MPAA sued them.
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
does anyone know
Why haven't they been sued/restrained yet?
please disregard the prior post, I hit the enter key by mistake in mid sentence. I was saying, does anyone know whether or not the reason 2600 no longer posts links to 'hacked sites' is a result of scrutiny from their lawsuit? I apologize for being off-topic somewhat, but 2600 doesn't come up on /. too often...
AFAIR, everyone who has his browser cache on would be commiting the crime too...
/mnt/queen>/root/saved
#cat
What if every webmaster created a link to a DeCSS program using "civil disobediance" as the text for the link. It would probably create a Google bomb and it would make a statement about the people not approving of a dumb law. What do you people think?
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
I mean... Most authors can't even handle their own proofreading. Who says they create their own links?
And most people who post stupid comments don't know what they are talking about. Declan used to write for Wired and is an extremely well informed tech writer. He runs http://www.politechbot.com (a political technical mailing list which is probobly the best) and has done hundreds of articles on the DMCA.
Please, instead of bashing the writers for not doing research, do some yourself.
Poor fools, they commited a thought crime, and didn't even know it.
- High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
.. the irony of sentence: An honest mistake?
Can you get sued by linking to something linking to something illegal? Isn't the whole web linked to everything in some way? Who is suing Microsoft to link to thinks which are linked to deCSS in some way? What exactly is a link? Isn't saying deCSS already a link? Can you get sued for saying things you happen to know or have heard of? Lot's of questions to keep lawyers busy for another 2000 years. I hate lawyers. Last week a student of law killed a child of rich parents in Germany. So much about lawyers...
You can download the source for DeCSS (far more important than binaries :)) from
http://www.videolan.org/libdvdcss/download.html
Happy compiling...
vandy
You can download the source for DeCSS (far more important than binaries :)) from
Here
Happy compiling... vandy (sorry about prev... formatting error (should've previewed))
Much better would be to pass out free cd's that let people turn their computers into region-free DVD players without installing anything. Linux bootable discs that only play movies are great things. This lil project seems to be pretty good as a start: MoviX.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
http://www.worldtechtribune.com/worldtechtribune/a sparticles/buzz/bz10052002.asp
Your silence is the sound of hypocrisy...
I suppose technically it isn't, but practically, it probably is. If you do something in front of a police station and tell them it's illegal, I don't think they can really resfuse to prosecute you.
This makes me think of a pretty winnable (IANAL) DMCA case:
Joe sixpack gets a linux laptop, and uses DeCSS to watch a DVD on the step of his local police headquarters. He tells the first cop that goes by, and if they don't do anything, at the end of the movie, he goes inside and turns himself in.
It's pretty obvious that legal defense and a fair amount of publicity should be arranged before pulling this stunt, but if he's got a reciept for the DVD and lots of witnesses, the case will have to focus on the DMCA. I suppose judges can be hardasses sometimes, but who's going to send this guy to jail for watching his own DVD? But the judge won't have that much of a choice but to convict him, since the law is pretty clear that DeCSS is a circumvention device, but this sure seems like a case that could be appealed to the sureme court and won.
A case like this might just be able to demonstrate to the ridiculousness of the DMCA.
Their case could be made using very simple arguments the would be hard for the MPAA to prove wrong:
The only point it seems the MPAA could argue with is #3. They might try to argue that he should just use another method to view DVDs, that DeCSS is not necessary, because alternatives exist (although not on linux).
But I think point #3 would probably be very defendable. One could argue that the combination of the DMCA and the DVDCCA creates a situation where fair use rights can be/are elimated. If a situation exists where an orgainzation can dictate what you can and can't do with your DVD then the rights given to a purchased of copyrighted media have basically been elimated. An industry group could decide that you may only view each DVD you buy once (or for 1 minute for that matter) and defeating their copy protecting would be a violation of the DMCA. Since DVDs are straight-up purchased, no EULAs, no rental agreements, this puts the DMCA in direct conflict with the doctrine of first sale.
So what do you guys think? Is it do-able? Could this (using a guy with a nice clean background and a lot fo money) topple the DMCA?
Life is too short to proofread.
Here (ogle)
This relies on libdvdcss to play encrypted DVDs.
Happy viewing!
vandy
A .EXE file *is* source code - for the language known as "Intel x86 machine code" (linked to a Win32 library). Sure, it's a bitch of a language to understand by just reading it, but it still IS a langauge. So exactly what definition are they using of "source code" when they say you can't post DeCSS source code? Did they ever bother getting a legal definition so you can tell, because after all, the algoirithm implemented in Intel x86 machine source code is distributed all over the place in DvD software. My PC from IBM came with a tool that had DeCSS in x86 machine code inside. Most PC's sold today do. Is the definition that the code must be in it's executable form to not be "source"? Then what about Perl, or python, or any other such interpeted language where the human readable source code IS the executable form?
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Maybe their muckraking? Its about time the press get back to their roots of true investigative journalism and not be afraid of standing by their words. A nation without a free/uncoerced press, isn't free.
...particularly APC, have had libdvdcss on the cover quite a few times now when they've included Linux DVD players on their cover CD.
Buying Japanese music help out the RIAA? I wouldn't think so, but these guys are good at what they do :\
btw, I don't mean like American music exported to Japan and then imported back here, I mean Japanese published music (the music store around here who will do special orders always has a hard time of getting what I'm saying)
Excuse if this was already pointed out, but the links on News.com are mighty small. Could they be a different DeCSS? http://www.pigdog.org/decss/
it.
once again slashretarddot has posted some bullshit that is bullshit ..neither of these articles have links to any exacutable code...that is illegal...you stupid fuckin hippies
Where on earth do you live, where it is up to lawyers to keep laws around (even after they've been 'tossed'). Here in the West, we have these things called legislatures, whose job it is to write and to repeal laws. Even though these legislature are nominally democratically elected (ie. determined by Media Barons), if you are amoung the "small amount of people with a lot of money", that wants a certain law kept on the books, or indeed created, you simply do so by purchasing a block of members of these legislatures. This practice goes under the name 'Campaign Financing.'
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
Unfortunately this is quite true, its a cliche, but very true; 'money is what makes the world go round.'
Most governments have protecting thier income and resources as a higher priority than protecting thier citizens...
a ^= b; b ^= a; a ^= b;
You've got a problem with these slimy bastards and .... stop buying the shit from them, you're all complicit in this consumer hell !
their faggot lawyers
Does it really matter if websites link to DeCSS now? Anybody can get a copy and instructions on how to use it. I got my copy from a P2P network and could easily send it to friends via e-mail, AIM, FTP, etc.
I had a feeling once about mathematics -- that I saw it all. Depth beyond
depth was revealed to me -- the Byss and the Abyss. I saw -- as one might
see the transit of Venus or even the Lord Mayor's Show -- a quantity passing
through infinity and changing its sign from plus to minus. I saw exactly
why it happened and why tergiversation was inevitable -- but it was after
dinner and I let it go.
-- Winston Churchill
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