Microsoft cannot "slow down." Do we want security patches only after a year? No. No operating system exists without bugs, because that's impossible. Any software past a given size, of course, will have bugs, both known and unknown, and nothing can be done with that. Fixing them in flight is a better option than waiting, "until the OS is stable." Apple might be able to do once a year because they don't have the numbers and device types that Microsoft faces. I hate all operating systems equally. But as far as breadth of hardware and usability, No one touches Windows 10.
I've been involved with computers my whole career. The proclamations of who's good and who's bad by geekdom is extremely wearing. They tend to go on benders falling in love with things, then when they find out they are dirty and human, they bail. I'm sorry to inform everyone that Capitalism is human, dirty, and boring. It has the potential of carving out large hunks of our environment and turning them into plastic toys for our fat lovely children's fancy. Facebook? Evil? It doesn't even rate.
Companies, depending on the position, toss as much description out there in hopes of a perfect fit. They realize that they will have chose from a group of people.
Who is assuming anything about exactly what went wrong, and what the reasons were for launching at that time. The question is loaded. It should be, why is the government at this particular time having problems with the ACA website? Obviously they weren't ready when they launched. Oh THAT's never happened in the private sphere!
Exactly... I tried the BF4 beta. It's the same game, just a little prettier. Guys will be out there trying to out kill each other; running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Wee.
There was a time when I also thought that Linux was going to storm the market, including the desktop. That was when I read Eric Raymond's paper, "The Cathedral and the Bazaar." One of the major themes was, "so many people are working on open source, that commercial software would not be able to compete." It seemed reasonable to me, and I wrote an article with a friend in 1998 that made it onto Linux Today, and into a crappy book by Wiley called, "Linux at Work."
Eric Raymond was wrong.
The problem with Desktop Linux, is Linux. I've been involved with Linux since the beginning (though not anymore if at all possible). Much of my career has been working on and with Linux servers and Desktops. I've heard over and over that, "this will be the year of desktop Linux," and it never has been. Open source development has a critical flaw, no one forces anyone to do the final grunt work on various components of the desktop that are necessary to put the final grunt work polish. Linux, and open source do not have the millions spent by Apple and Microsoft on user testing. No paying developers to stay in their chairs and finish that grunt work that no one wants to do to put the final polish on software/operating systems. Ms and Apple thoroughly QA test their products, which is a whole boatload of grunt work that people will only fully complete when they are paid to specifically do that.
No, this is not the year of Desktop Linux.
Linux is good at many things, but it is nowhere close to the commercial operating systems in ease of use, documentation and direct support if necessary. If you like spending Saturdays attempting to get some obscure error figured so you can attempt to get a crappy half-assed driver for Linux working, then it's for you. If you just want to do things, and play hundreds of great games, choose a well supported and developed commercial operating system. "
I completely agree with you. These days, I work with Windows, by choice after years working with Linux. I love the Fluxbox simple interface, but most Linux distributions are racing to out whiz-bang each other.
kfsone, your expert conclusion is that they created an operating system with thousands and thousands of person-hours, simply in a masked attempt to manipulate their books?
Bravo! An answer that no one cared to look for.
"Humans simplify everything down to their level of misunderstanding."
Ken Dahl.
I use Windows 8 every day, and spend the large majority of that time on the *desktop.* Sure PC sales are flagging, and MS has to be more present in the tablet area. But the number are... anyone. Huge. They better get WITH IT! Because we Linux nerds know marketing, sales and what the people really want sooooo well. Also, when we all get into an echo chamber, the sound gets really loud! That means what we're all saying must be true!
By Shona Ghosh
Posted on 2 May 2013 at 11:18
Read more: Microsoft sold as many Windows tablets as all its partners combined | News | PC Pro http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/381583/microsoft-sold-as-many-windows-tablets-as-all-its-partners-combined#ixzz2SXEDxYcEhttp://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/381583/microsoft-sold-as-many-windows-tablets-as-all-its-partners-combined
"Including sales from Acer, Asus and other manufacturers, total Windows tablet sales came to 1.8 million, meaning Microsoft sold as many tablets as all of its partners combined."
All you have to do is get off your asses and do the smallest amount of research to see that your positions of alarm for MS are debatable at best.
I love when nerds get their panties in a bunch about an operating system that has already blown all Linux distributions into the weeds. Windows 8 is great. I think the Start Button replacement start screens are much better than searching through lists (click click click click click click). When people get used it, they'll start complaining about something else.
Meanwhile, whatever PCs and Tablets with Windows and Windows RT will keep selling, way, way more than all desktop users using Linux.
We should make a yearly "Microsoft is Going to Die Because _________," event where Slashdotters can carry signs that say, "The End of the World is Coming!"
Fragmentation? It's more like a bloodbath. I've been waiting since 1998 when Netscape released it's source for Linux to get it's desktop act together. It hasn't. It isn't competitive, as evidenced by it's minuscule market penetration on the desktop.
Eric Raymond was wrong. It takes a cathedral to make good *finished* software that is actually usable by a large percentage of the computer world. Apple and MS devote millions of dollars to usability. Linux? People argue about what should happen, then all do different things on the desktop. There's no standardization of usage across various programs, and as Miguel said, attempting to get things working by finding the right... anything... is still problematic.
If you want to be a l33t self-satisfied Linux user, great. If you want users to be able to use your software, you have to do what the large software corporations do, QA the shit out of it, seek user input and spend big bucks to get developers to go to the nth degree of polish, whether they want to or not.
This is the biggest difference between corporate software and Open Source (et al.) for the user; corporations force developers to not be lazy when the grunt work starts.
That's great, Linus, very professional. I'm sorry I cannot converse with my coworkers the way you do, because I actually have to answer to someone.
Some of us out here, Linus, practice something called, "getting along." It's possible to deal with someone's request which you do not like, from a person you might not like, without charging them with being Microsoft dick suckers. Believe me, it really is possible. I've disagreed with people myself over different issues at work without calling them Microsoft dick suckers.
You might say something like, "I'm sorry, I don't want to do that for the reason's I will list here." Or, even, "I'm strongly opposed (While thinking, "you fucking MICROSOFT DICK SUCKER!") to doing this," all without publicly slamming them.
One thing all this declaration of dick suckers does for me, it makes Open Source software that much more desirable. I mean, how can it be hard to deal with, or bad software, when people are yelling at each other and calling people "DICK SUCKERS" in public?
Every time I've tried Opera, I think, "weird." Then I read comments that say things like, "it was first at this, or this, or this, and it's better at that." How many people are actually using Opera on a regular basis? Just wondering.
No, they don't. I was there in 1998 when Netscape released their code and not much later, the Cathedral and the Bazaar was written by Mr. Raymond, and everyone rejoiced. What happened then? Linux on servers, and hardly any dent on the desktop.
Now we proclaim the death of the desktop, and perhaps this is a spot where Linux might, or might not eventually gain the upper hand.
I was waiting through the 90's and the 00's for Linux to make more than a slightly measurable dent in personal computers, as opposed to embedded devices (a so so market penetration), and servers where it has done fantastic, but Windows is there too, in the server space.
Having spent most of my time working in Unix/Linux shops and cobbling things together with roughly hewn programs, lacking, many times, basic documentation, I now happen to work in a Windows shop. The integration is astounding, and the Cathedral and the Bazaar was wrong in this way, it assumed that developers would develop to the nth degree for the sake of the cause. This doesn't happen. To get developers to achingly continue to get a project (interfaces, games, business programs like Office) *properly* prepared for the masses, you have to pay them mightily to do it. You have to dump the cash, or you get crap. No one likes busy work, which is all of taking a program from a rough stone, to a highly polished gem.
Don't tell me about how, Linux rules. Personally, I can totally live without it. After all of the unintended and tacitly broken promises made by the Open Source community over the years, and all of the searching on Saturdays and Sundays trying desperately get something working before the Monday traffic hit, it's ironic to now see, crop after crop of people saying, "Linux won!"
In your dreams.
Slashdot Mirror
Now they have to kill the messengers.
666
According to the 1960s British motorcycle industry, which was almost completely annihilated by Japan's motorcycle industry.
Microsoft cannot "slow down." Do we want security patches only after a year? No. No operating system exists without bugs, because that's impossible. Any software past a given size, of course, will have bugs, both known and unknown, and nothing can be done with that. Fixing them in flight is a better option than waiting, "until the OS is stable." Apple might be able to do once a year because they don't have the numbers and device types that Microsoft faces. I hate all operating systems equally. But as far as breadth of hardware and usability, No one touches Windows 10.
I've been involved with computers my whole career. The proclamations of who's good and who's bad by geekdom is extremely wearing. They tend to go on benders falling in love with things, then when they find out they are dirty and human, they bail. I'm sorry to inform everyone that Capitalism is human, dirty, and boring. It has the potential of carving out large hunks of our environment and turning them into plastic toys for our fat lovely children's fancy. Facebook? Evil? It doesn't even rate.
Companies, depending on the position, toss as much description out there in hopes of a perfect fit. They realize that they will have chose from a group of people.
Who is assuming anything about exactly what went wrong, and what the reasons were for launching at that time. The question is loaded. It should be, why is the government at this particular time having problems with the ACA website? Obviously they weren't ready when they launched. Oh THAT's never happened in the private sphere!
THIS will be the thing that will really help Linux on the Desktop as desktops slowly disappear. It's always something, and it so far hasn't happened.
That is awesome. Let's just totally change course! That will fix everything.
Exactly... I tried the BF4 beta. It's the same game, just a little prettier. Guys will be out there trying to out kill each other; running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Wee.
There was a time when I also thought that Linux was going to storm the market, including the desktop. That was when I read Eric Raymond's paper, "The Cathedral and the Bazaar." One of the major themes was, "so many people are working on open source, that commercial software would not be able to compete." It seemed reasonable to me, and I wrote an article with a friend in 1998 that made it onto Linux Today, and into a crappy book by Wiley called, "Linux at Work." Eric Raymond was wrong. The problem with Desktop Linux, is Linux. I've been involved with Linux since the beginning (though not anymore if at all possible). Much of my career has been working on and with Linux servers and Desktops. I've heard over and over that, "this will be the year of desktop Linux," and it never has been. Open source development has a critical flaw, no one forces anyone to do the final grunt work on various components of the desktop that are necessary to put the final grunt work polish. Linux, and open source do not have the millions spent by Apple and Microsoft on user testing. No paying developers to stay in their chairs and finish that grunt work that no one wants to do to put the final polish on software/operating systems. Ms and Apple thoroughly QA test their products, which is a whole boatload of grunt work that people will only fully complete when they are paid to specifically do that. No, this is not the year of Desktop Linux. Linux is good at many things, but it is nowhere close to the commercial operating systems in ease of use, documentation and direct support if necessary. If you like spending Saturdays attempting to get some obscure error figured so you can attempt to get a crappy half-assed driver for Linux working, then it's for you. If you just want to do things, and play hundreds of great games, choose a well supported and developed commercial operating system. "
My thoughts exactly. There are reasons that the big guys are big, and one is monetization of all cost.
Agreed. I have a Leapmotion. Bleck.
Pay them.
I completely agree with you. These days, I work with Windows, by choice after years working with Linux. I love the Fluxbox simple interface, but most Linux distributions are racing to out whiz-bang each other.
kfsone, your expert conclusion is that they created an operating system with thousands and thousands of person-hours, simply in a masked attempt to manipulate their books? Bravo! An answer that no one cared to look for. "Humans simplify everything down to their level of misunderstanding." Ken Dahl.
I use Windows 8 every day, and spend the large majority of that time on the *desktop.* Sure PC sales are flagging, and MS has to be more present in the tablet area. But the number are... anyone. Huge. They better get WITH IT! Because we Linux nerds know marketing, sales and what the people really want sooooo well. Also, when we all get into an echo chamber, the sound gets really loud! That means what we're all saying must be true! By Shona Ghosh Posted on 2 May 2013 at 11:18 Read more: Microsoft sold as many Windows tablets as all its partners combined | News | PC Pro http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/381583/microsoft-sold-as-many-windows-tablets-as-all-its-partners-combined#ixzz2SXEDxYcE http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/381583/microsoft-sold-as-many-windows-tablets-as-all-its-partners-combined "Including sales from Acer, Asus and other manufacturers, total Windows tablet sales came to 1.8 million, meaning Microsoft sold as many tablets as all of its partners combined." All you have to do is get off your asses and do the smallest amount of research to see that your positions of alarm for MS are debatable at best. I love when nerds get their panties in a bunch about an operating system that has already blown all Linux distributions into the weeds. Windows 8 is great. I think the Start Button replacement start screens are much better than searching through lists (click click click click click click). When people get used it, they'll start complaining about something else. Meanwhile, whatever PCs and Tablets with Windows and Windows RT will keep selling, way, way more than all desktop users using Linux. We should make a yearly "Microsoft is Going to Die Because _________," event where Slashdotters can carry signs that say, "The End of the World is Coming!"
And secure!....
NAZIS HITLER! GONG! GONG! GONG! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
It's not Open Source. They make the rules. You decide to play, or not play.
Fragmentation? It's more like a bloodbath. I've been waiting since 1998 when Netscape released it's source for Linux to get it's desktop act together. It hasn't. It isn't competitive, as evidenced by it's minuscule market penetration on the desktop. Eric Raymond was wrong. It takes a cathedral to make good *finished* software that is actually usable by a large percentage of the computer world. Apple and MS devote millions of dollars to usability. Linux? People argue about what should happen, then all do different things on the desktop. There's no standardization of usage across various programs, and as Miguel said, attempting to get things working by finding the right ... anything... is still problematic.
If you want to be a l33t self-satisfied Linux user, great. If you want users to be able to use your software, you have to do what the large software corporations do, QA the shit out of it, seek user input and spend big bucks to get developers to go to the nth degree of polish, whether they want to or not.
This is the biggest difference between corporate software and Open Source (et al.) for the user; corporations force developers to not be lazy when the grunt work starts.
That's great, Linus, very professional. I'm sorry I cannot converse with my coworkers the way you do, because I actually have to answer to someone. Some of us out here, Linus, practice something called, "getting along." It's possible to deal with someone's request which you do not like, from a person you might not like, without charging them with being Microsoft dick suckers. Believe me, it really is possible. I've disagreed with people myself over different issues at work without calling them Microsoft dick suckers. You might say something like, "I'm sorry, I don't want to do that for the reason's I will list here." Or, even, "I'm strongly opposed (While thinking, "you fucking MICROSOFT DICK SUCKER!") to doing this," all without publicly slamming them. One thing all this declaration of dick suckers does for me, it makes Open Source software that much more desirable. I mean, how can it be hard to deal with, or bad software, when people are yelling at each other and calling people "DICK SUCKERS" in public?
Every time I've tried Opera, I think, "weird." Then I read comments that say things like, "it was first at this, or this, or this, and it's better at that." How many people are actually using Opera on a regular basis? Just wondering.
When the Zombies do come, there's no real point in fighting or running, eventually they will win.
No, they don't. I was there in 1998 when Netscape released their code and not much later, the Cathedral and the Bazaar was written by Mr. Raymond, and everyone rejoiced. What happened then? Linux on servers, and hardly any dent on the desktop. Now we proclaim the death of the desktop, and perhaps this is a spot where Linux might, or might not eventually gain the upper hand. I was waiting through the 90's and the 00's for Linux to make more than a slightly measurable dent in personal computers, as opposed to embedded devices (a so so market penetration), and servers where it has done fantastic, but Windows is there too, in the server space. Having spent most of my time working in Unix/Linux shops and cobbling things together with roughly hewn programs, lacking, many times, basic documentation, I now happen to work in a Windows shop. The integration is astounding, and the Cathedral and the Bazaar was wrong in this way, it assumed that developers would develop to the nth degree for the sake of the cause. This doesn't happen. To get developers to achingly continue to get a project (interfaces, games, business programs like Office) *properly* prepared for the masses, you have to pay them mightily to do it. You have to dump the cash, or you get crap. No one likes busy work, which is all of taking a program from a rough stone, to a highly polished gem. Don't tell me about how, Linux rules. Personally, I can totally live without it. After all of the unintended and tacitly broken promises made by the Open Source community over the years, and all of the searching on Saturdays and Sundays trying desperately get something working before the Monday traffic hit, it's ironic to now see, crop after crop of people saying, "Linux won!" In your dreams.